The Steel Cage

AC: I guess you can’t be guaranteed what you’re going to make [in a year], right?

BH: Well, I try to get deposits from people, so in case the show tanks, at least I got something out of it. I took a bunch of date sin September and October without a deposit, and now I’m second-guessing it after what just happened.

AC: Can you come close to what you were making in WWE by scrounging up independent dates?

BH: Actually, between the international stuff, merchandise, and if I really hustle a lot, I’ll make more. I wasn’t one of the higher paid guys there. I mean it wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t great.

AC: So it’s not the end of the world losing a WWE gig?

BH: No. We left on good terms. I was told that maybe on certain big shows [they could use me], and that in the future, down the line, that there is a possibility of me returning. I mean, listen, it has to do with my son. Once my wife got pregnant… and I hurt my shoulder in the gym and had stopped lifting weights up there. You’ve got to look muscular. And even though I wasn’t the most ripped person in the world, I was in the gym all the time. And I had hurt my shoulder and I was out of the gym for a while. And then when my wife got pregnant, my focus switched form wrestling to this. And form the day my son was born, I mean, I hate to say it, but I just really didn’t care at that point?

AC: How did that translate into your work?

BH: They saw what was happening and they scrapped my angle [with Kelly Kelly], but they kept me around and gave me a chance to stay there and stay into it. But they saw that my heart wasn’t into it at the time. So they weren’t going to keep a guy around who really was more interested in raising his son than going to work.

AC: Is this schedule better for you in terms of your family?

BH: Actually, no. I’m off the next couple of weeks, but the whole month of November I’m doing a tour of Europe. Pretty much the whole month. The irony is my son’s birthday is November 15, and I’m not even going to be here for his birthday. But I’ll be here for his birthday party. But that’s the choice I made when I didn’t fight for my job. When I got the call, he said, “I hate to do this.” I was like, “You’re letting me go? Fine, no problem.” Instead of trying to fight for it, I was like, “Yeah, fine let me go. Fine. It’s no problem.”

AC: Who’d you get the call from?

BH: We’re not getting into it.

AC: Okay. But being two weeks at home - Is that something you could have done when you were in WWE?

BH: The first seven months when I got hired for this incarnation of ECW – which is not Extreme Championship Wrestling. It’s WWE’s ECW – we were running house shows. We were on the road like everybody else. After that, it was mixed shows. Some guys would go. Some guys wouldn’t. I was at every TV. Basically, I had the most easy schedule in the world. Leave Monday, do TV on Tuesday, home Wednesday. And even then, I wasn’t into doing it. So they were bringing me to work, and after my son was born, they gave me some time off because my wife had a C-section. He was a large child – a breach. So they gave me three weeks off. But when I came back, they kind of squashed my angle, and I kind of saw the writing on the wall that that was it.

AC: You’re talking about the Kelly Kelly angle?

BH: Yeah, like with no explanation or anything. I mean that could be bad or could be good. Who knows? All I know, and this is honestly, the McMahons – all of them – Stephanie, Shane, Vince, Linda, and Hunter. I’ll include Hunter, even though I know he’s not a McMahon – They all treated me great and I got along great with them. I really do. And I know a lot of people don’t say that. A lot of people say, “They’re a--- h----s.” Well, you know what, they’re my type of a--- h----s.

You know what I mean? S---, I’m a lifer in this business. I’m not going nowhere. I’m going to be doing this until I’m done. As far as my son – amateur wrestling, yes. Football, yes. Do I want him to be a pro wrestler, God no. I don’t want him to go through what I’m going through. I foregoed a college education to do this. And now I’m kicking myself in the ass. I’m 36 with broken everything. My job skills are kind of limited from being on my feet all day and working my a-- off, which is almost impossible. But again, believe me, I wouldn’t trade it. I’ve had a great life, and I’ll continue to have a great life. Do I think my son we’ll end up eventually in the wrestling business? Probably. I think he’ll probably be better than probably anybody out there now. He has the potential to be.

AC: Why do you think so many children of wrestlers go into the business and excel in it?

BH: Because they’re around it their whole lives. My son comes to shows with me and he watched daddy in the ring. “Oooh!” And then he’s going to want to get in the ring and play like daddy. Because that’s what it is to him – daddy’s playing. So he’s going to want to play like daddy. And, of course, if I’m going to show him, I’m going to show him right…

People who know me just from WWE think of me just as, ‘Balls! Balls! Balls! Whooa… Balls!” People who know me from just the original ECW and don’t know me that well think of me just as chairshots and blood and all this. I’ve been doing this for over 20 years. I’ve had to wrestle lucha guys. I can wrestle any style. I grew up with Chris Candido. He was my best friend. When he died, I almost followed him. And my son’s name is Christopher.

AC: After him?

BH: Yeah. It’s going to be next to impossible to keep him out of the business. But the only way I’d like for him to go into the business is maybe how Brock Lesnar went into the business. He was All-American NCAA Division champion. He went into WWE making a lot of money right away. With my athletic background in football and amateur wrestling, and his uncle dancing – it’s not my brother, just my best friend – between me and him teaching this kid, he has the potential if he wants to to be as good as that Scott Winston kid who just graduated from high school. He’s an undefeated New Jersey wrestler who’s now wrestling for Rutgers. Remember the name Scott Winston. I’m not talking about pro wrestling. I’m talking about the Olympics. Scott Winston. That kid is a machine.

AC: You talked about having 20 years in this business. So I would think it would have been weird for you, at 34, getting that call and being invited up to WWE.

BH: Well, I had been up there before.

AC: Yeah, back with the Xanta Klaus gimmick, right?

BH: Yeah, and I had been there before that too as part of some no-name squad.

AC: But were you surprised at this stage of your career to be going back?

BH: No, because look at Ric Flair. Look at Terry Funk. It depends on the person. That’s the thing about wrestling. It’s unique to the individual. I mean, as I said, I have not been in the gym. I have not been lifting weights. That’s going to change, starting – I’ll even give you the date – starting September 2 at 9 p.m. That’s when I’ll be walking back to the gym for the first time after a while. And in about six months, I’m going to look about 100 times better than I do right now. I have to. Do I have to because someone’s forcing me to? No. I have to because I want to. Because I want my workrate up to what it was before I got to WWE.

AC: How much of a difference for you does it make being in shape or not? Do you tire more easily? Do the injuries feel worse?

BH: My knees feel a little worse. You get tired a little quicker. But, I’ve got so many tricks up my sleeve to get away with it. It also depends on how motivated you are. It depends on my mood. I’m also considered, like, not normal. I mean, no wrestler is a normal human being or otherwise we wouldn’t be doing what we’re doing. But I’m considered one of the more lunatic-guys out of the bunch. And with good reason. I’ve earned that. So, if I get in the mood, I could be limping around all day and then go in the ring for 40 minutes in the blink of an eye – as long as I’m in the mood to do it.

That’s why I like this FTW group so much. They’re letting me have a lot of creative freedom. They’re also letting me go. They’re not putting any restraints on me. They’re not saying, “ You have to do this, and you can’t do that.” They’re like, “Be yourself. Here’s [independent star Grim] Reefer. Have fun,” you know?

I don’t know if you know the match that’s coming up… It’s myself and Sandman vs. Grim Reefer and Jay Lover. Now, there’s a little added stipulation that we’ve added to this that fans don’t even know about. They’re going to learn for the first time here. I wrestled Reefer, and he used lover, and he beat me and I should be the champion, although I’m not. I should still be the new FTW champion. And I don’t think he wants to give me a title shot, because this was supposed to be a return match. So I talked to the promoter and he talked to Reefer and he agreed – If in the tag team match, I pin Reefer, on the next following card I get a title match with stipulations of my choice against Reefer. But if I lose, not only do I not get another title shot, I’ll also get my head shaven.

AC: Oh really? Have you ever had your head shaven? I vaguely remember you with short hair.

BH: When I wrestled in high school – because you weren’t supposed to have hair below your ears.

AC: And in the Xanta Klaus gimmick you had like a crew cut, right?

BH: Yeah, I’ve had different haircuts. But I don’t want to [have my head shaven.] I like my long hair, believe me. And if you think my wife wants me to have my head shaved, you’re out of your mind. She’ll kick my a--. I’m more worried about losing that match for my wife having to watch me get my head shaven than anything else.

AC: So would you get your head shaved that night?

BH: In the ring, in front of everybody.

AC: Wow. Well, good luck, I guess. You touched upon the new ECW, which isn’t really ECW, and I wanted to ask you about that. When they first pitched this to you and invited you back and had this vision, were you confident that they were sincere in wanting to recreate that old ECW.

BH: At that point, I was getting a job with them. I wasn’t looking at, “All right. I’m going back to ECW.” I was looking, “I’m starting fresh in WWE. And I’m going to do my damnedest to stay there as long as possible and maybe get promoted to Smackdown or Raw.” And that didn’t happen. And, again, that probably has a lot to do with me too. My ultimate goal is definitely go back, at least go back and have one WrestleMania match.

AC: Did you feel bad that you were left out of that whole “ECW Originals” angle?

BH: You don’t even want to know how bad I felt… I was completely left out, and it bothered me a lot. And it still bothers me. I still have a couple of “ECW Original” t-shirts and I will not wear them. I won’t even let my wife wear them around the house because it bothers me that much.

AC: Is there a story behind that that you can share?

BH: There really isn’t a story behind it that I know of.

AC: Did you speak up about it?

BH: That’s the thing. I’m known for speaking my mind and being an a—h—e, pretty much, and not giving a s----. Well, I gave a s---. But I kept my mouth shut and tried to do what was best for the company, and just shut up and not make waves. And that’s what I did. And look where it got me.

AC: What do you think the motivation was behind not including you in that?

BH: I have no idea. I really have no idea. I mean it says a lot that out of that whole “Originals” group, six months later none of them were left except for [Tommy] Dreamer.

AC: And even after they left, they still didn’t tap into you as an “Original.”

BH: Yeah, because I didn’t want to be thought of just as one. That’s how they would group those guys – “ECW Originals” and that’s it. I wanted them to bring me in a new direction. I wanted them to bring more of my real personality out. And they didn’t want to do it. And, no, I’m not going to get into that right this second.

AC: The stuff with Kelly Kelly – did you have a hand in that? Were you excited about that? Did that tap into who you were?

BH: It was good because it was something to do, and Kelly was over. And I was over… I mean the way it was going to go, if it went to the full extent, it would have been great. But it didn’t. It got squashed because of my son being born and the way I acted, the way I wanted off the way he came home from the hospital, which was the day of the high-definition shoot. They said, “Well, you have to in Florida.” And I’m using “they” as a general term. I’m not going to say the person’s name. And I said, “Well, no. I’m not going to be there. I’m going to be home. This is my one and only son. This is the only baby I’m having. So, tough.” And the “tough” was on me. They squashed my angle. And it was going well and people were really buying into it. And Miz was great to wrestle with. I loved wrestling Miz – great character, good athlete. Kelly was developing better and better. We had that one mixed tag, and I thought it would have been phenomenal if they had just kept going with us, and they didn’t

AC: Yeah, that’s too bad. What do you think of where that product has gone? … Do you think it’s OK that there really is no link to the old ECW, except for Tommy. They even got rid of Stevie Richards.

BH: And Nunzio. I feel bad for Stevie and Nunzio. Those guys were up there way before I was up there, and now they don’t have a job anymore. I feel terrible.

AC: It looks like they’re kind of going the direction of making ECW the developmental brand where they’ll bring up the new guys. What do you think of that?

BH: Dude, that’s Vince’s prerogative. He owns it.

AC: Do you have any problem with it being called “ECW”?

BH: You know what, I get a problem sometimes. It happens where the fans will start chanting, “E-C-Dub! E-C-Dub” like when I do something pretty cool in the ring. And I get hot at that, because, like, especially when I’m pulling out a chair, or a table or a barbed wire bat, or something silly like that and they start screaming “E-C-Dub!” full well knowing that the ECW that’s on TV right now is basically Sunday Night Heat with a different name. And I’m probably going to get in a lot of trouble for saying this. I’m probably hurting my chances of returning to work for this, but, hey guys I’m sorry. But that’s my opinion.

AC: You mentioned the chairs, so I wanted to ask you, especially since the whole Chris Benoit tragedy, there’s been a lot of controversy about chair shots…

BH: Look, all right. [Pauses, clears throat.] This will be my only comment on that. I’ve taken more shots to the head with steel chairs than probably anybody in the business in the amount of time that I did, for years. And from guys like Masato Tanaka, and Bubba Ray Dudley, who’s a 330 pound man. Three shots in a row without putting my hands up, OK? You don’t see me strangling anybody or killing anybody. There was something wrong with him. That’s the only thing I could think of. And it hurts me to say that it. I thought I knew the guy. And the guy I knew would never have harmed a hair on his son’s head and wouldn’t have strangled his wife, or whatever he did to his wife. Honestly, there had to have been something wrong with him. And that will be the only comment on the Benoit situation. It broke my heart, It really did.

AC: Not talking about Benoit, but just about chairshots. Is there too much made about how dangerous they are? Is there a safe way to execute them?

BH: No. The way my skull is formed, I have a super hard head. I’m just, I guess, blessed – or cursed – with this super hard skull. I used to tell people in the early days of ECW when they’d grab a chair and hit me in the back, “Don’t hit me in the back. Hit me in the head. I don’t like getting hit in the back.” And I still don’t like getting hit in the back.

AC: Why?

BH: Because it hurts.

AC: More than getting hit on the head?

BH: To me, yeah.

AC: But that used to be the sort-of safe way to do it, right? Across the back?

BH: It is the safe way to do it, but not for me.

AC: Your own personal biology aside, is it overdone? Would you like to see it scaled back? I guess to some extent it has been scaled back. You don’t see them as much as you used to ten years ago.

BH: The only wrestling on TV is really TNA and WWE. And being that the only product I really watch at all is TNA in that limited basis, I don’t watch wrestling. I’ve been around wrestling my whole life, and I don’t watch it. When I go to the indie shows, guys ask me, ‘Did you watch my match?’ And I’m like, “no, sorry bro. I was doing something else.” If somebody comes up before the match and asks me, “Hey, would you mind watching my match and give me some tips?” I’m like, “Sure, no problem.” But I don’t watch wrestling. I just don’t.

AC: Maybe this will also get you in trouble with WWE, but I’ll ask you anyway. You’ve heard about that raven filed, and I guess Chris Kanyon and another guy are on it too. Basically, they filed a suit against WWE saying something that a lot of people have thought for a long time – essentially that it’s bogus that they’re labeled as independent contractors and fighting that status, saying that WWE wrestlers are employees and should be treated as such. Do you have any thoughts on that?

BH: [Exhales and takes a long pause.] Yeah, you know what, I could say a lot right now about how I feel. And I’m not going to. I’m not going to comment on that, because I know where you’re going and I kind of agree with it, you know what I’m saying. If you’re an independent contractor, that means I should be able to take other bookings, and not be exclusive with WWE or TNA, or the FTW for example. And if that’s the case, that I’m going to be exclusive, then I should have benefits and a retirement package, and all that, and medical and health benefits and dental, and all that. But what are you going to do, you know?

AC: We’ve touched on it a few times – For people who are fans of nostalgia wrestling and they often look up bad gimmicks, inevitably Xanta Klaus comes up as one of the bigger head scratchers of all time. Can you talk a bit about when somebody came to you about that what you thought of it?

BH: I thought it was great, man. I loved it and I would have done it again. I mean, come on. I got to do a pay per view. I got paid extremely well for it. And I was an evil Santa Clause. I mean, come on. I’m a twisted guy. Ask around about me. I won’t make any comments except for that.

AC: Why do you think it didn’t take off?

BH: Because it was an evil Santa Clause.

AC: An evil clown worked.

BH: Yeah, but it was an evil Santa Clause. What are they going to do after Christmas?

AC: Make you an evil Easter Bunny?

BH: They wanted to keep me under contract. It’s just that they were going to keep me under contract and told me I might not wrestle for six months to two years until they had a new character for me. And I said, “Well I can still take indie bookings through you guys, right?” And they go, “Yeah.” And I go, “Well, I can use my other characters, right?” And they go, “No, you have to wrestle as Xanta Klaus.” And I’m like, “Well, that means I’m not going to wrestle right?” And they were like, “No, but you can go to the gym and get paid.” We didn’t even discuss money. I’m like, “I’m not going to the gym and do that.” If I’m not wrestling, and that’s what motivates me, then I’m going to drink beer, do shots, and eat pizza and hot dogs. I’ll be 500 pounds by the time you see me again. I asked for a mutual contact release, which is what I got then. If I had realized then, what I know now, I never would have done that. I would have stayed employed. I would have just gone with the flow and don’t whatever they told me to do.

AC: You were sort of the last breed of the current wrestlers today, and you’re still only 36, who were part of the territory system, in between Smokey Mountain and some other places.

BH: Right, the USWA, Puerto Rico and some other places.

AC: Do you miss that time?

BH: Yeah, wrestling isn’t the same anymore. The territory system is dead, and it’s a shame because guys used to make a living going from one territory to another. Now, it’s WWE or you’re struggling. Like I said, I could do better, but I’m doing better in spurts. I’m having slow weeks, like I’m having the next couple weeks. Then I’m going to have busy weeks, like in November, which is going to blow up. As long as you’re frugal with your money… Here’s the thing. If I was going to live the WWE lifestyle and stay at fancy hotels and eat at the fancy restaurants, hell man, I’d have nothing. But I’m not about that. I’m about raising my kid. Eventually, I’ve got to put him through school. Eventually, I’d hope to have my own training center. I used to train guys for the Monster Factory. [The Big Show] Paul Wight was one of my students. I taught a lot of guys.

AC: When you told me you were 36, I was surprised. You’re still so young and you’ve been doing this for 20 years?

BH: I set up my first ring and took my first falls when I was 12 years old. Me and Candido for his grandfather Chuck.

AC: Wow, that’s terrific. You mentioned TNA a couple of times. Is that something that’s been on your radar and have you sent any feelers over there?

BH: I’d love to go to TNA. I haven’t had any official talk, but we’ll see what happens. You never know.

AC: I imagine this isn’t really your cup of TNA but have you followed Ring of Honor and what they’re doing?

BH: I know [ROH booker] Gabe [Sapolsky} well. He doesn’t call me.

AC: How well do you think you could mesh with what they’re doing?

BH: I’ve been complimented many times that I can wrestle a broomstick and make it look good. I take pride in my work.

AC: To that end, does it bother you that you’re often pigeon holed as a hardcore wrestler?

BH: Of course it does. But, hardcore is also what got me as famous as I am. Sorry I don’t hate it, you know. But what are you going to do, you know. But all you people, come out September 13th. First off, you’re not going to see the 4 to 5 minute WWE Balls Mahoney match. Second of all, you’re not going to see a bunch of garbage wrestling. What you’re going to see – if you’re not a true fan and haven’t seen me live – you’re going to see a big man who can go out and go, in all different styles. I use top rope maneuvers. I use psychology. I know shoot wrestling. I know all kinds of stuff. As I said, it all depends on the mood. And on that night, my mood is going to be “ready to go.”

AC: You mentioned Brock Lesnar before and just mentioned shoot wrestling. Have you ever thought of mixed martial arts?

BH: I’m too old and beat up for that. But if it was as big as it is now when I was a senior in high school, there’s no doubt in mind I would have done it. And I probably would have been pretty good at it too.

AC: Not scared to take a punch?

F---- no. Come on, now. Look at me.

AC: For most people it must be a pretty scary prospect – stepping into the octagon and getting punched in the face repeatedly.

BH: That’s fine. I love UFC. That’s the thing. I watch more UFC and boxing and pro football than anything. I’m a huge Giant fan by the way. So last year was amazing. My son was born, and then we went on that run. But, even when I was with WWE, I watched more UFC than I did wrestling. Even when I was at the shows, I’d be at the shows and reading a book rather than watching the program, which obviously hurt me a lot.

AC: It used to be in the 80’s boxing and WWE were the destination pay per views. Now everybody gathers around for the UFC show. What do you they’ve hit upon that maybe some wrestling promoters would be well served to emulate?

BH: It’s not what they’ve hit upon. It’s the fact that it can end at any moment, and the brutality of it. It’s controlled brutality. I think the original ECW, if we had more money behind us, could have been as big as UFC is now. In fact, I thought we were. It’s just the way things were handled, not by Paul E., but by people Paul E. had around him. Believe me, ECW was the greatest time in my life. Like here’s something that bothered me about WWE. We did that first One Night Stand. And I love Tommy to death. Dreamer takes that flaming table bump. I’m the one who took that bump. I’m the first one to take that bump. I was the first one ever to take that bump. That was mine and Bubba Ray’s idea together. And I was doing that every night for five months. And we used to put barbed wire on there, tacks, glass, you name it. We used to put everything on that table. And there was like no flame-retardant stuff we used. I just doused myself in water before I went to the ring and said, “If I die, I die. Here we go.”

AC: Why do you think Tommy is the last man standing over there?

BH: Tommy’s a great businessman. He loves the business. And he is, I guess, more of a professional than I am.

AC: You and everybody else, I guess. None of you are left over there – Sabu, Sandman.

BH: Yeah, but if I was that much of a professional and that good, I’d still be there wouldn’t I? Hopefully, I’ll get another chance.