Blue Notes

interesting article on jarg!!!!!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01092009/sports/rangers/jagr_thinking_about_nhl_return_149421.htm

Jason. Read that shite article earlier today... thanx. READ IT PEOPLE!! I expressed my feelings about this on the Jagr All-Star team post from today. Yeah, i Do feel like calling him Jarg now too. POS.

Also: Can anyone (ZIP?) explain to me why our Rangers are the ONLY team in the entire league to carry only 6 defensemen?! So, of course we were a man short after Rose got his face smashed. Staal is hurting too. Redden and Kalonion just plain suck. Mara and Girardi are solid mostly. But seriously! WHY do we have only 6? Renney? Probably. Make sense? NO. Can we get a chant of FIRE RENNEY! FIRE RENNEY! FIRE RENNEY! next time we play at MSG? Please?

Great game by our team. They hustled and deserved to win. Question.
What makes you think these guys are actually capable of scoring? No
matter who's system they play? Again, I agree Renney has to go but do
you all think that the scoring flood-gates would open because of it? Even
Sather knew they couldn't score 5 on 5 because he signed 2 PP QBs.
Of course that failed and here we are with no scoring. These guys are
TERRIBLE around the net. The only ones with any kind of "scoring hands"
around the net are Naslund, Prucha, and MAYBE Zherdev. If another
coach comes in with these same players and they score more then I will
apologize to my blogging bretheren. This team can't score 5 on 5 and
Sather knew it by signing both Redden and Rozy to have the PP make
up for te lack of scoring. It failed miserably. Bring back Jagr!!
Yes, he would make a big difference.

Just to show that I back up what I say, I looked at the play-by-play for
last night's game. 80% of their shots were slap shots, which implies shots
on the outside. You can tell by the time reported whether there was a 2nd
shot fired (rebounds, etc.). There was one instance where Miller had to make
a save on back to back shots on goal. ONE. On 40 shots on goal.
That means that they're not getting 2nd chances, which I didn't remember
too many to begin with or they shoot wide. I remember a few 2nd chances
but not that many.

Eric Appelhans, can you be any more of a bandwagon Ranger fan?

Fire Renney? Are you kidding? The guy is a top 5 coach and deserves to be here for a LONG time.

Bangwagon fans like this is why I stopped going to game a couple of years ago.

The team has been on or near the top and I feel like this guy is constantly on the firing line. How many chances has Drury had to bury the puck this year? He alone should have near 30 goals with some of the chances/breakaways that he's had. Renney can't play for them and the team DOES have the ability to come back from being down 3-1 or 4-2, they just don't take chances unless they have to.

Guess what? That system won 3 cups for our neighbors across the river.

The team that beat us last year went to the finals last year and was built for last year. How would you feel about being a Pens fan and losing Hossa, Armtrong, Malone, etc...?

I like our mix of young players (Callahan, Staal, Dubi, Zherdev, Prucha, etc....) and our future (Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, Anisimov) and I'm under no illusions that we're winning the cup this year. As a matter of fact, I'm FINE WITH IT. If Drury, Gomez, Redden & co. pick it up down the stretch this team is as good as anyone else in the East - which won't be enough to deal with the West. :)

TK, I like Renney a lot, but the fact remains that the line-changing and
the lack of Prucha playing time was unfathomable. Granted the talent is
suspect and tinkering is needed, but the line-ups were changing every
game. His decision not to play Prucha (not that he is the savior) is
mind-boggling considering they can't score and the players he would
replace in the line-up. Plus, they can't play 60 minutes for most of the
games, effort-wise, and that's on the coach.

I'm a Prucha guy too and I'm with you on the line-juggling nonsense. But, teams go through stuff like this - look at the Devils who have been as hot as it gets without Marty and now have been shutout 3 times in 8 games and lost 4-0 to lowly Atlanta. It's part of the bumps and bruises along the way in an NHL season. Hopefully, Prucha stays, the lines stay together, and our franchise players wake up.

I agree with you, it's not ALL on Renney and teams go through spurts.
It's a long season. One thing you can't dispute though is that they've
won 4 games in regulation in approx the past 25 games. That's scary
and shows you the fine line between winning and losing with this team.
I agree 100% with you on the top-salaried players but the fact remains
that they are not that good. Gomez is terrible. I was watching him last
night and he can't battle for the puck to save his life. Very uninspired
play from him. At least Drury is trying. Redden is just incompetent.

Renney is a hack and needs to go!

Kocur, I didn't understand your post. Can you be a little more
clear? lol.

LOL I'm tired of listing the reasons why he suck's. The only thing he's top 5 at is being a BS artist. If taking your team to the playoffs makes you a top 5 coach then there is 16 top 5 coaches every year. He's a mediocre NHL coach who would serve the Rangers better as a scout. His decisions behind the bench are assinine and his personel management is a joke. His system is out dated and not right for this team. It worked for the Devils because they had players that actualy covered their man away from the puck. Shall I go on?

i wish jagr would come back.

Instead of all of this fire Renney BS, why don't you guys suggest a replacement? Torts with his 239-222-36-38 career record? Quinn, who is older than all of us combined? Melrose (LOL)? Who?

I do like Tortarella. He wouldn't be afraid to bench anyone.

In his last 3 years he was bounced from the playoffs twice in the first round (winning a combined 3 games) and missing the playoffs.

Next.

I like Tort's too. How is wanting to fire renney BS? How about you tell us why he should stay. What is the alternative, change the whole roster again and again until they suite his style. That obviously hasn't worked.

I like how you leave out the cup he won. How many does Renney have?

Hey. Chris: Sorry for the rudeness, but...Go to hell! Why, I ask you, would anyone jump on this "bandwagon", as you called it? Don't people usually jump on the wagon of a team that is on a roll, or at least good? That's what I thought. If Renney is here for a LONG time, we are royally screwed! He cannot coach this team. Someone the other day made a very good point re:Renney. He is a good coach for a bad team, but a bad coach for a good team. We needed someone like him after the lockout, but he has hit that inevitable wall, and has IMO lost this team. He has no fire, and is far too accomodating to his players, even when they make mistake after mistake after mistake. He says someone will be accountable, blah blah blah, but then does nothing! TK: Yeah, I DO think Tortarella would be a good replacement. His career record does not speak to the intensity he brings to the game. Also, if he says heads will roll, they actually will. It's not just a juicy sound-bite. When we have a Capt. that is so meek and quiet, if the coach is even meeker, who is laying down the law? Pearn sucks terribly too. Messier could do his job better. Messier is needed in this organization on some impactful level. It would be nice to have someone in management that gave a rat's heine about us, the fans, and the overall "product". iHATESLATS: Jagr coming back to the NHL looks like it would be a disaster... Unless you are a closet Pens fan! I jest, I jest.

Renney had done nothing at the NHL level when Sather hired him. Dismising Tort's based on his resume doesn't cut it since he's done more than Renney.

If you can't replace him with a better coach, then firing him is just asinine - especially with a coach that had a worse record in the regular season and the playoffs in the last 3 years.

*ESPECIALLY* if you're going to do it in the middle of the year with a team that is challenging for first place the entire season. In the off-season, I could see the clamor for a new coach. Now, however, is NOT the time.

Ask yourself what you would've expected from this team in August if someone told you that Redden would be playing like a zombie, that Drury couldn't score with a hundred dollar bill in a whorehouse, and that Gomez skates around like a deer in the headlights? First Place? I don't think so. A Cup? LOL. This is not a roster that can win a cup and that's not Renney's fault.

Tort's IS a better coach than Renney. The Devils fired their coach in the middle of the season and won the cup. The Rangers are not challenging for anything but 8th place right now so to use that near first place line is BS.

I guess nothing is Renneys fault. No accountability. You would make a good Rangers executive.

Jagr coming back wouldnt be a disaster. It would be uplifting. a Sense of motivation.

TK: Decent points. Let me ask you this, though. Do you think, even if we won the East, that we would last in a seven game series against Montreal, Boston , New Jersey, Washington, Philly or Buffalo? I agree that this roster is not cup contending. Mostly because we don't have the horses to work Renney's boring system. Dubinsky and the 4th line are the only ones still buying in, it seems. We definitley need to play a more free-wheeling offensive attack style. Most of our squad is good on the rush, and skate well. We DONT grind along the boards, or screen the goalie. Battles for the puck are laughable usually!

Ooh, Renney coached his team to first place for the first two months of the season. Coach of the year no doubt. The roster isn't Renneys fault but he has to take the blame for the uninspired team we see every game.

How many Cups has he won? How many cups has Gomez won? Does it matter today? If you're going to go there, HOW MANY CUPS HAS SATHER WON? Jesus christ.

He coached a team that had:

St. Louis,
Lecavalier,
Richards,
Modin,
Khabibulin,
Fedotenko,
Andreychuk,
Boyle,
Kubina,
Sydor

Are you seriously going to compare that team to this one?

Are you seriously gonna say Renney is a good coach and the right coach for the Rangers just because you like him. 99% of Rangers fans want him out. That speaks volumes!

Well it looks like the censors have hit me. That's okay ZIP. Guess I am not a positive influence, and need to go somewhere. I will keep that in mind.

You still havn't given any reasons why he should stay. Why is Renney the right coach for the Rangers?

I am one that believes that Renny is a terrific person who should go back to scouting. I also have said for quite sometime now that Tortarella would be my choice to replace Renny, and at the same time, replace Sather with Craig Patrick. As long as they are on the same page with their belief systems, on how to build a hockey club/team, that is the way I would go. I also feel, as I have stated before that Renny should take Perry Pearns with him, and offer the Asst. Coaching Position to Mark Messier. This trio would, IMO, get this organization on the right track. We would have an experienced and successful GM, an experienced and successful Coach, and a 5 time Stanley Cup Winner as Asst. Coach in Mark Messier- any of you have a problem with this????, Bring it on- I wanna hear your thoughts! [][]\_ _

LOL. So you want Sather to pull a Lou and fire the coach and then sit behind the bench? That worked real well for Lou last time around, remember?

I'm not arguing that Renney is coach of the year or anything remotely close to that, but don't give me a mid-season replacement that couldn't even make the playoffs in his last year. After the season, it's worth talking about.

Many mid season coaching changes have worked. At this point anyone with a backbone would improve this team.

PIP...I would like to see that. There is no leadership on this team. Not on the ice or behind the bench. With the way this team has performed this season there is nothing to lose at this point.

ZIP: Sorry I don't sugar-coat everything I say. Pulling my 12:27 post is censorship, even if you do own this blog. Have a nice life. It's been fun chatting with you guys. Kocur, TK , Tony, dude, PIP, and even bob. So, as I boycott the games, I guess I will "retire" form this forum, for everyone's sanity. I wish you all the best in life. Hope you all stay healthy and positive, and may the Gods bless you. Peace out. Eric

Kocur - what you're advocating is the same prescription that has plagued this franchise for 30+ years. You want instant results rather than allowing young players to develop. Renney has this team near the top with an underperforming lineup (Dubi hasn't scored in forever, Drury can't score, Gomez is awful, Redden has been awful but improving, Rozsi had a tough start, etc...). What more do you want from a coach than that? Do you REALLY think that the Rangers approach the game and say to themselves that they are going to take a period "off" because they can get away with it? I don't think so. Renney needs to take the team down the 2nd half leaving the lineup as it is. Let's see what happens then. They need more toughness, though.

Hey Eric......everyone here is entitled to their opinion, we might not all agree. I think that yours posts come with a great deal of passion, and for one, I appreciate that!!!!! I just feel 'ya need to check you emotions at the door and not take too personally other peoples objections to your thought. Had you posted in a less emotional way, I doubt Newsday's narrator's would have booted your post. Believe me, I have had one or two booted myself, and I just come back and rephrase my thoughts w/o the emotions and it always goes through.
____________ \_ _ __________
Kocur, it always starts at the top. Aside from last nights inspired play, I feel Tom Renny is unable to motivate this club to play 60 minutes every game. I als feel the team is not happy with, nor believes in his system. It is these reasons I feel there is a need at this position. As for Sather, he made horrible signings, and put us against the cap so bad we can't make any moves. The players he signed have a no trade clause, AND are so highly paid that other teams don't go near them. It is for these reasons he needs to be replaced. Perry Pearns needs to be replaced because he doesen't have a clue as to how to create and put in place a working PP. I don't wanna see anyone lose their jobs, but these three deserve to lose theirs based on their poor performances_X_

What I want to see is accountability. Too many players play like they don't care and never see the bench. I could really care less if they win a cup or not. I want to see an exciting hard working team. I don't see how you get me wanting instant results and not wanting young players to develope from me wanting a new coach. I would'nt trade any of our young players no matter where we finish this year. I'm tired of executives and veteran players coming here and taking a vacation. Besides Renney and Sather I would like to see Gomez, Redden, Kalinin and Roszival all traded for young players or pick's.

I don't think you can sit there and gauge the effort of anyone. I've seen every game this year and I don't think this team suffers from a lack of trying as much as playing against teams that simply have better go-to guys or first line players. Gomez, Drury, etc... are all role players on a team that has someone in front of them. You can't compare Drury and Gomez to Ovechkin, Crosby, Parise, St. Louis, etc... They simply aren't players "like that". This team has also had a huge turnover of people and, more specifically, "personalties" and you're judging them on half a season of work. I think the jury is out on this team and Renney shouldn't be let go. Yet.

TK...I don't see how you can give Renney the credit for being near the top and at the same time not hold him accountable for their poor play the past 2 months. This team has been a 500 team since Nov. and it's not all the players fault. You can't blame the players and not the coach and vice versa. They are all responsible. I just think a new coach at this point in the season is the best way to jump start this team. They need something and with the salaries and cap issues keeping player movement to a minimum, replacing a coach that should go at the end of the year anyway, seems like a no lose situation to me.

I've watched every game for the past 20 years and I do think they lack effort most nights. They have played a full 60 minutes maybe 6 times this year. If the coach isn't responsible for effort than why do they have a coach in the first place. All these players know how to play the game and don't need Renney to show them how. His job is to motivate the un motivated and bench players that are'nt playing well. He simply does'nt get the most out of his players. He has'nt since he's been here. Every roster the past 4 years has underacheived. Why is that?

I understand where you're coming from. I really do. But I also read the papers, blogs, etc... where it seems that many players were tired from the first 6-8 weeks of the schedule which were really hard and I'm not going to push the panic button because they've been mediocre for a month (especially if it's December). I don't like mid-season changes especially if it involves a completely different system (which it will).

I understand where you're coming from too. I just happen to think mid season changes do work. We agree to disagree I guess.

TK, with all due respect, and I'm never one to pull a trigger so quick, this team is just not responding the Renny, and you can hear it in their voices just how discontent they are (esp. Drury). But at the same time Kocur, removing the coach should be the same time to remove and replace the GM, as long as both are on the same page. To me, replacing the coach and keeping the current GM is not a rational move. In addition, do you want Sather here for draft day? I don't! We need new leadership from the GM down, with all of them on the same page...this way they can begin to create and put in place the new system on the ice and off ...remember, this is just not a coaching issue we're talking about-it's a combination Coach and GM Issue _X_

Also, my opinion of Renney is based on his overall work the past 4 years. Not just this season. I just don't like his style or system and now seems as good a time as any to get rid of him. I hope they play tonight like they did last night. When they play that way they are a good team. They just don't do it often enough.

I agree PIP. The organization needs an overhaul. Sather and Renney have had ample time to show what they have and have not done a great job. It sucks being powerless over something that means so much to you. I guess thats just the nature of being a fan.

At work and had to do some of it. Read all the posts. All have valid points.
TK, I was a HUGE supporter of Renney. I put a lot of it on Sather because
he is not a great GM, in my opinion and it all starts with talent. That being
said, Renney "changed me" based on what HE did, as mentioned in earlier
posts. He needs to get their attention and bench someone. Not Prucha,
not Orr, not Korpi, but someone meaningful. I will bet this team will be lucky
to make the playoffs. They are currently 5th in the conference and sinking
fast. After this year, new management and coach. MSG can no longer
say "but we made the playoffs." That worked after 7 non-playoff years. It
doesn't work now.

Kocur, 'ya right, and I never took into consideration the 4 years he's been here. Yes, they both have had ample time to get beyond the 2nd round and have failed, simple as that. I also agree w/you Tony in that it is time to get the right people in place, so we can make a real difference and get beyond the 2nd round and into the SC Finals...Failure apparently is an option for Sather, I don't think he really cares because he's won his Stanley Cups in Edmonton. Renny, although I don't have any confidence in his system has yet to win a cup as a coach, so to me, failure is not an option for him...just unfortunate he has the wrong system in place and his players aren't responding. C. Patrick, J. Tortarella and M. Messier IMO all have that thinking, in that failureis not an option. I'm confident Patrick will supply the right personnel, Tortarella and messier will see to it that each player brings it for 60 minutes in a system that actually works. I would however seriously consider bringing over Renny's PK System, which is the only system that apparently works here. [][]\_ _

PIP, maybe you can clear this up for me. What is Renney's system?
I think it's supposed to be pressuring the puck, but I could be wrong.

PIP -messier has 6 cups not 5

i would like dubinsky to be sat for a couple. bring back some fire to his game

Hey Joe. I vote for Gomez. Just awful. Any insight into Renney's system?

Renny's system is all about a system that the players are not......see how much sense that makes...LOL, none, which is what Renny's System is all about. seriously, it was designed to manage the puck, and it is mostly a defensive minded system. Ok, it worked in europe, and worked the first 10-11 games. BUT, here is the BIG problem. Other teams came up with an answer to Renny's system, and Renny has never been able to counter that. That is why we are where we are.....Renny doesen't have an answer to the counter IMO.

Sorry Joe, 'ya right, forgot about that....please don't tell Mark, he's my favorite NYR (aside from John Ratelle who was my original favorite) _X_

pip wasn't is jean ratelle.

re renneys system - 5 in the picture. wants no cherrypicking and put puck deep and go for a change. leads for pretty boring hockey. likes his 2-1 games so he must be happy about last night. even better would have been the hartford game where they won 1-0 (in ot goal by AA)