On the Islanders Beat

Again, and again i will repeat what I and many have said before: This is a HUGE transitional period for the Islanders. It starts with the draft. If Snow drafts well, it's a great start. I'm not going to dive into the free agency until it gets here, because we can talk about certain free agents until we're blue in the face, and then, all of a sudden, that free agent signed before July 1st. Let's get the Lighthouse Projuect going first, then the draft.

"Stadium expert and "Field of Schemes" author Neil deMause said that while a new facility will attract more fans in the short-term period of five to seven years, a winning team is more important to sustain attendance."

Katie, this is a bit silly. We needed a 'stadium expert' to tell us this? It's always been true that a winning hockey team on LI would ensure strong fan support, even if they played in a sump as 'occasional guy' said. The real story here is that the team still sees gimmicks, bells and whistles as the answer. And what is a "stadium expert" anyway? Did he receive an MSS (Master of Stadium Science) from the Ellerbe Becket School of Stadium & Arena Design?

Folks it goes like this: Score Goals, Win Games.

Period.

That fixes everything under the sun in no time at all.

Things that won't help: Dragons, Ticket Giveaways, Chinese Broadcasts, Number 5 Picks, Lighthouses that will never be built.

Frei:

Actually, in China and Japan dragons are said to have magical powers and can grant wishes. We could certainly use a couple of those right about now :)

Frei -- You're destroying your credibility with this "Lighthouses that will never be built" thing. As someone who is involved in the process, it is looking highly likely to be approved (and the financing is already in place). This is not to say that we don't still need people to tell their legislators they support it, but it is clear from the statements made by the Town Board members at the last meeting that the project has broad support on the Board. And guess what? They, not you, get to decide whether to approve it. Unless a large coalition of opponents materializes that can outweigh the community support that has been coalescing over the last few months, it will be approved and there will be shovels in the ground in 2009.

I understand that you prefer to cling to your bitterness as an oft-burned, lied to, and abused Islander fan. But believe me, it feels better to get involved in helping the team get better, as a bunch of us have done. I know you'd prefer to blame the Islanders' problems on the current management, but actually Garth did try to sign two out of Briere, Drury and Gomez last July. Players do not want to come here because of the arena. That may sound like a convenient excuse, but what I've learned by talking to people in the Islander organization is that the issue is that until the new arena is built, we lack state of the art training and rehab facilities. Those can extend a players career by years. So it makes a huge difference in the attractiveness of the franchise. Of course, the dearth of other talent on the team and poor attendance also make the Isles an unattractive destination for UFAs -- and the inability to sign UFAs results in a lack of talent and poor attendance. BUT the new arena will make a huge difference in breaking the vicious circle.

You might also explain how we're going to achieve your "solution" of scoring more goals and winning more games without getting better players...

In a market with no media coverage, they have not won a playoff series since 93 and still the building is over eighty percent filled on avgerage.

At least in our building it's hockey fans. Anyone who think's Dolan and his flukeskirts have anything more but a few more corporations and ANNOUNCED SELLOUTS are kidding themselves.

Isles fans and most teams fans have easy access to that Msg dump because they cannot sellout for real.

Maybe if Newsday covered our team better more people would follow the club and go to the games?

Instead they give us articles like this.

Devils have been the model for success and last year they played before 8,000 fans against the Isles,

This year they opened a state of the art building and still the place is not sold out even at playoff time. Isles fans go there in big numbers just like Msg.

This is all newsday's fault for not giving our team space in the media, that's why people stop following.

That and Dolan's garbage network that is in business to restricted three teams on television because he's scared of competiton so he buys off the competition.

Maybe Katie Strag should go ask Dolan why half our games are hidden on FSN2 and there are not Islander shows on his network?

505...You gotta come around on this one. I agree Avery is a great pest, but his antics the other night were not in any way, shape, or form for his team. They were for him to get more attention. Avery cares about Avery. He hates Brodeur and was trying to piss him off. He was ill prepared for any rebound and obviously could not tip in the puck.

How would you feel if on a 3-1 count MAnny starts doing the Funky Chicken at home plate to distract the pitcher? There is being a pest, and there is a MORON. This game we love has history. It has a CODE....That finger paint wearing mary, broke the code.

You're going to tell me he was the first one to think of doing that? Way off. He is just the first one in the spot light to try it. HE is the first one to break the code of conduct. He outed himself as the selfish moron that he is.

Again, he is a great pest. This time he showed his true colors. HE does not care about the game. He cares about the spot light.

Which is why the Rangers should offer him peanuts on his next contract. NO WAY would he leave the attention of the city. NO WAY !! To selfish and insecure !

As for the attendance.

simple.

Have Wanger and his son in law go to computer camp for three years and get a hockey guru to run the show. Put a quality team on the ice and the place will be sold out NIGHTLY !!!

BOBBLEHEADS drive me freaking NUTSSSSSSSSSSSS!

so how come the Devils are not sold out nighty with a quality team on the ice? At the CAA or Newark?

how come the skirts front-load Cablevision contracts and opposing fans and empty seats dominate the Garden unless it's bandwagon time?

Don't make this an Islander issue because it's not.

It's a newsday issue and a coverage issue.

Steady,

"505...You gotta come around on this one."

Eh, mebbe....but not for the reasons you and a million others are talking about...."the unwritten code of the game" bs.
There's another "unwritten code of the game" that says if ANYONE messes in ANYWAY with your goaltender, you'd BETTER take some physical action, regardless of the game situation. And that simply wasn't adhered to by the Dev's.
So how selfish does that make them?

Now, if someone was to present an argument to me that Avery's actions INSPIRED the Devil's to play better and more aggressively, and provided the incentive to WIN the game.....well, then I'd have to say that what Avery did was pretty damn stupid.

But I haven't seen that argument yet.

The fact that Avery "bent or broke" the written or unwritten rules by his antics......and that he GOT AWAY WITH IT.....and that his actions were possibly DIRECTLY responsible for HIM BEING WIDE OPEN 15-20 SECONDS later for a relative layup for a GO AHEAD GOAL.....well, I can't help thinking that the whole
"screening process" was a brilliant tactic.
Regardless of the "bush league" allegations.
TSA should be half as effective with their screening processes.

And as far as Manny doing the nonsense you describe on a 3-0 count? C'mon Steady, you know what would happen to him next time up.....For the most part BASEBALL still adheres to the "unwritten rules"......I wonder about hockey anymore.

KH, I'm sure you feel an extreme sense of nobility in the efforts you make to support the "Lighthouse". I also think that you are naive and wildly overestimate the "progress" that has been or will be made in the near future. Maybe you misunderstand my slighlty-more-realistic-than-your-own take on this for the idea that I don't want it to happen. On the contrary, I'd love to see it. But I, apparently unlike you, am wise enough not to hold my breath.

You see, I lived in Nassau for a very long time. I worked pretty closely with people involved in several different facets of the government. I saw then, and understand now, how the machine works.

So far there has been little more than meetings which were used to decide that there will be more meetings. That's useless. But, its par for the Nassau County bureaucracy.

Tell you what: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, right here, right now. All you have to do is tell me, when can I expect to stand before the 60-story icon that is the Lighthouse? Next Year? In two years? In five? Do you have any kind of rational basis for even making a guess? Because that's what I want to know. I want to know when I can walk through the doors and bask in the glory that this project will be. If you can't say, because you honestly don't know if any of it will ever actually happen, then, with all respect that's due, take a walk.

Before you feel so compelled to tell me about my credibility and how I don't know and don't understand, you could at least get a shovel in the ground. Seriously. Talk all you like but talk to the hand until you actually DO SOMETHING. That something is not have more meetings. Meetings are a dime per hundred, talk is even cheaper. Especially in Nassau. So? So, do it. Put your money where your mouth is. Dig a hole. Pour some concrete. Weld some beams together. Let me know when its going to be all ready. And, good luck. Then you can come here and tell me all about how great the Lighthouse is going to be. But not before then. No way. Sorry.

"Anyone who think's Dolan and his flukeskirts have anything more but a few more corporations and ANNOUNCED SELLOUTS are kidding themselves."

so, when you go on ticketmaster.com, try to get tickets to a Rangers game, and it says, "no tickets available, try a new request" The Garden is lying and would rather not sell thousands and thousands of tickets???

I find this one hard to believe.

I'm pretty much in Steady's corner regarding the Avery issue... When I saw it live .... I actually thought it was funny ... not in a hockey sense ... but the fact that Avery lost his bird and was doing that .... I was waiting for a penalty that never happened.

505~ I think the fact that Avery scored on a 5 on 3 was more of a factor than anything else. Even the Rangers themselves didn't look too happy about Avery's behavior ... his teammate stopped him from doing it further .... and when on a "rush" shortly following that incident he was able to get open infront with his stick down .. that is why he scored .... and the Devils just had poor coverage ....

... now onto the penalty factor. I was informed by my scouting contact in Montreal ... that the fact that the NHL made a specific rule regarding that so as to not have a gray area is a joke. Because in the NHL rule book there already states that you cannot use your stick for a purpose other than playing the puck or using it on an opponents stick to prevent them from playing the puck as it approaches ... raising your stick in a menacing gesture at an opponent is a penalty ... and unsportsman like conduct also can be called at the descretion of the referee if they feel a player is using the stick in a way not intended.

Of course the above isn't exactly how it's written in the rule book ... but he assures me that it should have been called ... and because the officials failed to make the proper judgement they decided to add specific language so as not to cause any confusion hereafter and embarrass the league with another similar episode.

Next of course Avery will be trying to knock the goalie stick out of the goalie's hand .... I can see it now.

19Isles....

"and the Devils just had poor coverage ...."
Precisely......ever think that maybe the 2 Devil d-men left Avery alone thinking he'd simply continue his screening antics, and therefore was not a threat to score? Cuz they were both in the area....but ignoring him.

Or am I giving Avery too much credit?

Fact remains......he wound up with a WIDE OPEN shot on Brodeur.

505...Well Manny shows up the Yanks every time he hits one 450ft and they do NOTHING !!!! Big Papi has NEVER been brushed back, so I do not see how you can say the Yanks would take care of business......THEY NEVER get back the Sox for their antics. That goes all the way back to when Pedro sent your two best players to the hospital in the same game!

As for AVON AVERY, the Devils can not get him back in a playoff game where they are already down 2 games to 0 ..... This brings up the old debate about the stupid "instigater" penalty....Take it away and mr. Avery will be a non issue. They will get him when the time is right.

As for you not in my corner with the "code of conduct," I guess we will have to agree to disagree. What he did was bush league and selfish. It had NOTHING to do with helping his team! He is a show boat and very insecure person that needs attention, whether it be positive or negative.

505...Put on FSNY ....QUICK.....

Avon Avery did it again today....This should end all arguements over this MORON

He kept giving the media the finger and calling the f^*ing a^^holes for showing up to video tape the Rangers practice !!!

Game, Set, Match !!

There is no FSNY in 505.
Zipay already blasted Avery in his blog about the "code of silence" that he is hiding behind.

So Steady.... I take it Avery is not on your potential list of free agent signings this summer?

Steady,

"THEY NEVER get back the Sox for their antics. That goes all the way back to when Pedro sent your two best players to the hospital in the same game!"

That was the Joe Torre era....You are correct.....I have no argument or defense to that. Joe did not "approve" of that.
(I DO).
I suspect that the Girardi era will be a little different.
(See Tampa Bay, preseason).

Here ya go Steady...an early Xmas gift from me to you....

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/prod.aspx?p=shopdecayny.254845150

Large? XL?
Where should I send it?

I gotta chime in here on this whole Lighthouse scenario . Yes, things are moving slowly, and yes, that is probably because of some opposition, but if people like Frei think the process to date has been meaningless, and resulted in nothing but more meetings, you have just completely devalued what happens in planning meetings, including those that were open to and attended by the PUBLIC - people who are your peers and who have made an effort to be involved.

As an environmental planner that works for all levels of government, I can attest 1st hand to the foot dragging and seemingly ridiculous number of meetings that take place to get things like this done.

I can also attest to the importance of the planning process, because it ultimately results in a project that should benefit everyone in some way, shape or form, thanks to the variety of opionions that get shared and issues that have to be resolved. These processes don't kill projects like these, they make them feasible and THIS HAPPENS IN ALL BEURACRACIES, NOT JUST NASSAU COUNTY (unless of course you are the Bush administration and only have meetings with people who agree with you and who only want to benefit their buddies).

For those of you that look at the possibility of the Lighthouse as a joke, you are just spewing pathetic, lazy excuses because you truly have no interest in making a difference or understanding of how to go about it. And, if that is because you have been subjected to almost 2 decades of torture on ice LIKE ALL THE REST OF US, and even more so if you are a season ticket holder, than you are entitled to say "F-it!"

But please don't come on an Isles board, or bother with anything Isles, and definitely don't sit back and lambast your fellow fans, and probably your neighbors, for getting involved. Just crawl into that hole you keep threating us and the team with, and don't come out. Basically, put up or shut up, as KH was so eloquently told to do.

I also agree with Steady on the Avery issue ...I do think there's a code of ethics in the game and I think Avery broke them ....just like Simon did twice during his short time here ;-)

Here's an online petition about the Lighthosue if anyone's interested in signing

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/lilighthouse/index.html

Simon did his antics against two of the most annoying gutless pukes in hockey. Not to mention his actions happen on a nightly basis by every dirty player in the game. see Pronger !

Avery is doing it to one of the most classy players to ever lace up skates. AND his actions have never been seen before!

Simon NEVER was bad to the media or off the ice....Avery just flipped off the entire media !

Come on AZS, you're smarter than that !

HUGE DIFFERENCE !

D-money....

"(unless of course you are the Bush administration and only have meetings with people who agree with you and who only want to benefit their buddies)"

In the interest of EQUAL TIME, D-money, you didn't have to go that far east to find a cheap shot example to make your point.
You could have simply looked south of your Colorado border to find arguably and EASILY the most corrupt "Patrone" system in place in America, under recent Presidential Candidate and current Governor Bill Richardson.

just was trying to bust your chops is all ;-)

I hear yah bro...I just hate Avery! LOL

D-Money,

I would offer that Nassau County is not, in fact, the same as "all bureaucracies", as evidenced by the fact that there have been several, indeed, many, new arenas built in the NHL over the last 15 years or so.

Is it your position that this idea of a new arena is a new one here in Nassau? One not previously explored or attempted? If so, you are woefully mistaken.

If not, why were previous attempts to build or renovate here unsuccessful?

Further, what in the government of Nassau County has changed to make this attempt more likely?

Perhaps most importantly, what is the role of SMG in this new facility?

Nobody seems to have real answers to any serious questions.

It was written here that there is/was a meeting held to discern - I love this - Whether or not the project will have an impact on the environment. Honestly. If that's not getting things moving down the line then I don't know what is. If you can't get the county to stipulate to that for a project of this apparent magnitude, then the rest of your plans might be approved by 2015 or so at that rate of progress.

And, crawl into a hole? I don't know what that is supposed to mean here... but it won't get your plan past the legislature. I don't have to put up, shut up, crawl anywhere, do anything at all, you see, because I'm not the one out here telling everyone how great this thing is going to be without knowing if it will ever exist.

You go your way, I'll go mine, thanks. Just keep telling yourself and everyone else that the "Lighthouse" is imminent and about to be built to save the franchise. That's your right. What say we have a look in... lets say 3 years from now, and we'll see what has been built at NVMC. Thats April of 2011. Care to wager on whether or not a "Lighthouse" is there? A big, 60-story one with a beacon illuminating the night for miles around? For real money, not BS, say, $5K? I thought not. But if you would, I'll take that in a second, no questions asked. And I've got the chips right here.

You people talk as much as a bunch of 13-year-old girls but aren't much for tangible progress. Show, don't tell. Then you can talk as tough as you like.

Ticketmaster has plenty of available tickets at Msg for tomorrow's game.

so how come the Devils are not sold out nighty with a quality team on the ice? At the CAA or Newark?
how come the skirts front-load Cablevision contracts and opposing fans and empty seats dominate the Garden unless it's bandwagon time?
Don't make this an Islander issue because it's not.
It's a newsday issue and a coverage issue.

helleva point.
don't know what the answer is, except that a winning team on LI does better than anywhere in NJ.

THIS IS THE REASON THE ICELANDERS ARE IN TROUBLE AND MIGHT MOVE.ICLANDER FANS ARE CRAPPY FANS WHO DO NOT SUPPORT THEIR TEAM.NOW YOU GET FEWER GAMES VS THE RANGERS NEXT YEAR=WORSE ATTENDANCE..........LOSERS.

As someone who is involved in the process, it is looking highly likely to be approved (and the financing is already in place). This is not to say that we don't still need people to tell their legislators they support it, but it is clear from the statements made by the Town Board members at the last meeting that the project has broad support on the Board. And guess what? They, not you, get to decide whether to approve it. Unless a large coalition of opponents materializes that can outweigh the community support that has been coalescing over the last few months, it will be approved and there will be shovels in the ground in 2009.

mr someone 'who is involved in the process' -
exactly which part of the decision are you involved in?
how does your input etc, matter? i want to know. i want to hear something positive from someone involved, other than by signing a petition or emailing a web address. can you tell me?

Posted by KH | April 15, 2008
And guess what? They, not you, get to decide whether to approve it.

and by the way - NO THEY DON'T GET TO DECIDE.
not the people you think.

Anonymous -- I'm "involved in the process" both as a member of the public and as an organizing member of a citizen group organizing public support for approval of the Lighthouse project. So far we've spoken in favor of the project at two Town Board meetings and gathered over 200 signatures. We've just gotten started, but by the fall, when the Town Board will actually vote on the rezoning application, we are confident we'll have gathered thousands of signatures. This is a very important contribution to "the process" because the Board has made clear that they want to approve the project. The only thing that will cause them to change direction is if intense opposition to it emerges among their constituents. There is just one way to defeat that opposition -- to show the Board, in the form of petition signatures and letters -- that more Town of Hempstead residents favor the project than oppose it. There's no other group gathering signatures besides ours, so we are actually performing a critical function "in the process" of getting this thing approved.

Frei -- Like a cable-TV screamer or talk-radio blowhard, the level of bombast in your rhetoric is in inverse proportion to your command of the facts. Despite your claim to be a long-time observer of how things work in Nassau County, your post shows you lack even a basic understanding of the legal hurdles the Lighthouse project must clear for construction to begin.

For starters, it is not Nassau County from which approval is needed at this stage. After a public, competitive bidding process, Nassau County selected the Lighthouse Development Group ("LDG") in March 2006 to redevelop the Nassau Coliseum and surrounding 77-acre site. Charles Wang and Scott Rechler beat out several other bidders, including a group headed by Mets owner Fred Wilpon.

Because the site lies within the Town of Hempstead and therefore falls within Hempstead's zoning jurisdiction, the next hurdle to be cleared is to win the Town's approval of LDG's rezoning application. A project of this magnitude will of course have some environmental impact, and thus review is required under the New York State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA). The "positive declaration" is important not because it acknowledges the obvious -- that there will be an environmental impact -- but because it, along with the "lead agency" designation taken by the Town, means that the review process is actually commencing. That Hempstead has stepped up to assume the role of "lead agency" is also a very good sign, because it means that sole responsibility for conducting the environmental review is in the hands of a single entity. Hempstead allowed a comment period where other authorities (e.g., Nassau County) could have claimed an interest and sought to conduct the SEQRA review. None did so, and Hempstead made the pos-dec and lead agency declaration just 5 days later, another sign the Town is trying to move this through quickly. Although the state Dept of Environmental Conservation will be consulted, Hempstead now has sole authority to conduct the review and determine that SEQRA's requirements have been met. Concurrently, and as part of the same process, the Town will evaluate other impacts of the project and take public comments. This is a very efficient way to do things because all the possible objections (cost to the public, traffic, environmental impact) can be considered in a single process.

By getting the pos-dec and the lead agency designation, the Lighthouse project has already gotten farther than any previous proposal to redevelop the Coliseum site. Not only that but, unlike previous attempts, no groups opposed to the project have yet shown up at Town Board meeting to voice their objections. A major reason for this is the LDG has spent the last year and a half talking to community groups to educate them and build support for the project (and head off opposition).

You asked what is different this time... why would the Lighthouse succeed where others have failed. There are a lot of differences from prior attempts to do this:

(1) the County, which owns the land, has already given initial approval,
(2) the immensely popular County Executive (Suozzi) is a longstanding, public, and vocal supporter of the project (this is a significant contrast to then-Executive Gulotta in relation to the Gluckstern-Milstein proposal)
(3) thanks to the LDG's outreach efforts (and for other reasons I won't get into now), significant community opposition has not emerged,
[(3a) it's worth noting that the Rechlers have successfully built major construction projects all over the Island and have a great reputation among all the players]
(4) the Town Board has publicly stated its enthusiasm for the project,
(5) community organizing efforts in favor of the project (that's us) will outstrip those opposed,
(6) once the rezoning application is approved by late this year or early next, the only remaining step is negotiating a lease with the county. Again, because Suozzi and a majority of the legislature have already voted in favor of the Lighthouse proposal and Suozzi is one of its biggest boosters, this should be relatively easy.

By contrast, the last attempt, by Gluckstern and Milstein, failed because they did not first build support in the community, as the Lighthouse folks have patiently done, and they treated the "politicians" and the community as an adversary right from the beginning. They demanded 70% public funding for the arena (in this case, the LDG will pay 95% of the cost of the new Coliseum, with the other 5% already committed by New York State). They tried to force the County to condemn the SMG lease by threatening to move the team. All of this, not surprisingly, produced a hostile reaction from the County, the Town and the public and so, they failed. As I discussed above, Wang/Rechler already have developed a completely different kind of relationship with the County and the Town. Charles Wang also has a harmonious relationship with SMG, which has made no attempt to obstruct the Lighthouse project (and no reason to). SMG is owed a fixed amount on the remaining 7 years of its contract to operate the Coliseum -- and that contract neither affects, nor is affected by, the renovation that would occur as part of the Lighthouse project.

This extremely specific answer is frankly more than your childish, fact-free post deserved. If you have a specific, factual basis for claiming that the project is a pipe dream, I'd love to hear it. I think it's more likely that you'll slink away with your tail between your legs. (By the way, you also got another fact wrong. Not only did you screw up that the project is now before the Town of Hempstead, not the County, but you also are talking about the 60-story lighthouse, which Wang has already abandoned because community response was negative.)

And you should be ashamed of yourself for telling people who are donating a LOT of time, without compensation, to make the Lighthouse happen, simply because we love our team, that we're just talking like 13-year-old girls. Especially given that you are contributing nothing at all but merely bitching.