It’s Chris Dey’s job to spin gold from straw as the Islanders’ senior vice-president of sales, marketing and operations, and he says this was a good season despite their failure to make the playoffs because the Isles had their highest paid attendance since the 2002-03 season and rank third in the NHL in paid attendance increase. But when you sift through the numbers, the increase amounted to a little more than 1,000 fans per game and the Islanders currently rank last in the NHL with an average announced attendance of 13,564 while playing in the league’s smallest arena.
And that’s the good news. But Dey, who also happens to be the son-in-law of owner Charles Wang, is nothing if not determined to rebuild the team’s connection to its fan base and, more importantly, to grow the fan base. As general manager Garth Snow and coach Ted Nolan recently have learned, they will combine with Dey in an extraordinary outreach effort to explain to various fan groups exactly how the Islanders intend to build a “consistent contender.”
Like most professional sports organizations, the Islanders have conducted a survey of season-ticket holders. In an interview this week with Newsday, Dey said 50 percent of those who responded said the performance of the team on the ice impacts their decision to buy.
“What you’ll see coming out is that we agree with you,” Dey said, speaking directly to the fans. “Garth can speak more directly to this, but I’m glad to put a little bit behind it. We need to commit to building a consistent contender. That’s going to require a plan, and we’ve got a very strong core of players we’re building around now – the DiPietros, the Hunters, the Okposos, Comeaus, Tambellinis. We’ve got a nucleus to build a consistent contender.
“We need to be a top-eight team in the league. We need to be a team that’s going to earn 100 points a year. Those are the goals and ambitions for our organization. What the fans deserve and what they’re going to see is a plan that’s going to lead us to becoming that type of team.”
Dey admits he is new to hockey this season, but it didn’t take him long to discover the passion of hardcore Islanders fans. Whether or not you agree with his assessment of the Isles’ core, fans have to appreciate the fact he’s listening and shares the same goals.
“What [fans] deserve is they need to see what the plan is,” Dey said. “Once they see where you’re going, then, they’ll embrace it because they’ll see how you’re building on that plan. It might take three years to fully execute the plan. But as long as they know where you’re going and what the plan is, then, they can see how each and every move is getting you closer to that.
“That’s what they haven’t seen from us before that they’re going to see. We’ll open up that dialogue with them, and I’ve spoken with Garth about that. So, you’ll see over the next month and a half Garth and I getting out into the community with Ted and being available and accessible to the fan base so that we can convey what our plan is.”
Needless to say, the goal defined by Dey is an ambitious one for Snow and Nolan to achieve on the personnel side. And next season will be critical in terms of making the right moves to achieve it through the draft and through a few key free-agent signings. Snow has said in the past that the only budget restraint Wang has placed on him is to exercise good judgment in spending.
On the business side, Dey has equally ambitious goals for himself and his sales staff. In addition to the improved attendance figures listed above, the Islanders have gone from six sellouts last season to a shot at 13 this season if they can reach capacity for Saturday’s Flyers game and the Rangers game next Thursday in the home finale. But Dey wants much more.
“We’ve got some real big work ahead of us because we want to grow that season-ticket holder fan base from 6,000 to 10,000, which is an ambitious goal, but I think there’s great opportunity,” he said. “We’ve found that about 65 percent of our season-ticket holder base is families. The Rangers are the complete opposite of that. Probably 80-85 percent of their season-ticket base is owned by corporations based on dialogue I’ve had with them.
“With all the small-to-mid-sized businesses on Long Island, there’s tremendous opportunity because you’re only looking at 35 percent of our season tickets owned by businesses. We’re very optimistic about our ability to grow that season-ticket holder fan base to 10,000. Once you do that, you’re looking at selling out 30 or more games a year, and you’re really cooking along.”
According to the survey conducted by the Islanders, there are 1,902 companies within a 20-mile radius of Nassau Coliseum that have at least 25 employees. They can count on getting a knock on the door or a telephone call from Dey’s sales force.
The Islanders offered a variety of deeply discounted promotions to boost sales this past season in an effort to broaden their audience. They offered cheap upper-deck tickets in “Loudville” for the young adult audience with limited income, and they offered the kids’ season ticket for $10 a seat for children 12 and under accompanied by an adult season-ticket holder. They also offered family fun packs for occasional fans that included discounted seats plus a hot dog, drink and sometimes a souvenir, such as a cap. Now, they’re offering a deeper discount to fans who agree to buy season tickets for two years at a time, including a 12 ½ percent discount on the first of those two seasons, plus free VIP parking, a locked-in rate for both seasons and, best of all, a 14-month payment plan.
Despite all the discounts, Dey said the Islanders’ average ticket price was the same this season as last and that it is only $7 below the league average. But if they really want to grow the fan base, Dey said, then they must concentrate their efforts on reaching Long Island businesses.
“You will see us put increasing emphasis behind our Islanders Business Club,” Dey said. “We’ve been able to develop programs where businesses can utilize the Islanders as what I call a business platform. The membership there continues to grow. Mike Bossy is the executive director. Bob Nystrom and Clark Gillies are on the board of advisors for the Islanders Business Club. We’re looking to increase that membership base, which is about 100, up to about 1,000 members next year. I think that’s where you’ll see a significant increase in our season-ticket holder base. Each member owns on average about four season tickets.”
Although he’s only played five NHL games, fans can expect to see 19-year-old Kyle Okposo featured prominently in future marketing efforts. Of all the young players in the organization, his ability might offer the best hope for the future, especially if Snow can add a little more talent around him to share the burden.
“I spoke with Kyle and Garth after Monday’s game, and we talked about the role he’ll play in the offseason in helping us market the team,” Dey said of Okposo. “He’s got a wonderful personality; he’s got great poise for a young man, and I think he’s a terrific asset for the organization both on and off the ice. Every time I’ve heard him speak, he’s been rock solid. We’re excited about Kyle.”
So, expect the plan to focus on developing the young talent in the organization, stockpiling more talent in a very deep draft this June and then trying to add a veteran forward who can score and maybe a solid defenseman to run the power play. It has to work because the plan Dey expects to articulate really is only Step One.
Step Two goes into action if the Islanders realize their goal of breaking ground in July, 2009 on the Lighthouse Project to renovate the Coliseum as the centerpiece of a development that will include a convention center, hotels, shops, restaurants and condos and townhomes.
What happens if no construction takes place after next season? Dey paused ominously before finally answering, “It’s a good question just because I would say there are a lot of ramifications for that. That’s a big question if you take it for all that it says. In other words, if we don’t get approval by next July, how does that impact the organization?”
More silence. And then: “Fundamentally, the types of things we did this year and the things we’ll do next year, we would continue to follow that on the business side. We would continue to follow the plan we’ve put into place to reach the goals I’ve shared with Charles for the organization as a business. We would continue to execute on that because those things are not dependent upon the new building.
“But then, you have a whole new business plan that’s set up on and off the ice that’s focused on what happens with the new building. So, clearly, it would impact that. That’s a whole other article.”
ISLANDERS INSIDER: The rest of Islanders Insider, including a look at how young players such as Okposo and Sean Bergenheim have provided a boost plus a look at low production from the Isles' centers, is posted on Newsday's sports web site. Click here to read the full Insider.
Comments (100)
Step 1. Develop Young Talent
Step 2. Build Lighthouse
Step 3. Become Top-8 Team with 100 Points
Sounds good to me. Pity about the three years, though.
Frei,
Baby steps - you cannot expect over night miracles. Everywhere else in the league these things have progressed gradually. Look no further than Pittsburgh and they will be around 4 years since their building was approved.
This off season is very important for the Islanders - all hands need to be on deck for this one.
What happens if the plan fails after 3 years? How can we really expect serious improvement if we only commit to signing free agents to 1 or 2 year deals?
If lighthouse doesn't get built, Wang sells and the Isles move.
Last Time I Promise:
NOLAN CANNOT MAKE LOBSTER SALAD OUT OF CAT FOOD!
I 100% agree that the PP was the cause of our downfall this year. With MAB and without we lead the league in game crushing shorties. The team actually did try almost every line combination they could. They tried many different schemes also. The talent simply is NOT there.
How do I know that the teams coaches can coach. How come our PK was very very good almost all year? Plain and simply we have the coachable personnel that can perform in that area. Park, Hilbert, etc. are all great in that role.
All childish arguements aside, let's just give Nolan talent and see what he can do with it. If he fails, all of you know ME enough to know the team comes first and I will help run him out of town.
I have said for as long as I have been on this board that in sports it starts at the TOP. Wang MUST stay out of the hockey decision process and hire a hockey guru to take control. If Snow must stay, then he needs to prove the past couple of years were rookie mistakes and get going.
This Team Needs:
1) A PP QB
2) A whole new first line (Which will make Guerin and Comrie better...same way Mets staff gets better with Santana pushing the rest down)
3) a Pest.....(I hate ruutu,avery,barnaby,fleury....but their roles are or were ohhhhhh so important. They can change a game. I actually think Bergy has annoying qualities in him. He seems to get under players skins....Plus he has extreme talent...20 goal season is on the horizon)
4) An ENFORCER....Sign Godard in the offseason or bring up Kip Brennan.
5) Put the "C" on Witts chest !!!!
Other than Wanger giving up the "committee" bs, those are my TOP FIVE.....
***Trotts place was a lot of fun...That is actually the ice we still rent out to this day when we all get together in NY and play some hockey! I lived in PW my whole life before moving to NYC for school and eventually work. Then for the past ten years been up here in enemy territory driving chowdah heads nuts with my NY attitude and mouth ! See what John Adams did to the French in the HBO movie....Times it by 50 and that is the way I act towards the sports fans around here.....They hate me so much, I think now they love me :) :) :) *****
Tell me this doesn't just bother the heck out of you:
"Dey admits he is new to hockey this season, but it didn’t take him long to discover the passion of hardcore Islanders fans. Whether or not you agree with his assessment of the Isles’ core, fans have to appreciate the fact he’s listening and shares the same goals."
WHY WANGER ???? NOW yo uare putting family who know less than you to promote the team ???? This guy does not know the difference between a hockey puck and a beach ball !!! Hire ONE OF US to promote the team......Not your computer programer!
WHY WHY WHY ???????????????
505...You want to blow a gasket.....Go to espn.co mand look at one of the main headlines on the right!
Ruutu SHINES in Penguins win over Isles.
The man almost took one of our players heads off with a cross check to the face. He wussed out of two chances to drop the gloves. He gets praised!!! Yes he had a good game on the score card also, but how can the glorify players like him?
TAKE AWAY THE 2 MIN. INSTIGATOR MINOR and players like him and Avery will more easily be kept in line !!!
Well, you're new here, Dey, so maybe you don't know that we've all heard this before. Many times. For many years. As my dad always said, action speaks louder than words. Give Nolan a contract.
We need to commit to building a consistent contender. That’s going to require a plan, and we’ve got a very strong core of players we’re building around now – the DiPietros, the Hunters, the Okposos, Comeaus, Tambellinis. We’ve got a nucleus to build a consistent contender.
“We need to be a top-eight team in the league. We need to be a team that’s going to earn 100 points a year.
pardon me but ...a-hem, uh, i don't think is a good enough nucleus to build a consistent winner around, nevermind 100 points per year. no defensemen in the nucleus? even the goalie is a question mark now and it all starts there. back to the drawing board?
Totally off topic:.....Am I the only one who is disgusted by Dubies helmet? THe fisherman logo was the most embarassing times for the islanders in franchise history and Dubie Paints the fisherman on his Helmet..iF HE stays as our backup next year, HE BETTER change that design on his helmet..
Now to the article....Its nice to see we supposedly have a "PLAN".. and the plan does sound somewhat promising...Having a good draft, picking up a solid PP quaterback, Goal Scorer and a solid Defensemen...If we have to wait 3 yrs to be a solid contender for the next 10 yrs, i think its worth the wait, and patience...its been so long that this team has executed a SOLID PLAN..so lets give wanger, snow, and nolan the benefit of the doubt..IF in 3yrs we still are fighting for a playoff team, well as STEADY SAYS, FIRE WANG, SELL THE TEAM!!!..
Steady,
"Tell me this doesn't just bother the heck out of you:
"Dey admits he is new to hockey this season"
It bothers me. Only because there is no mention of what he DOES bring to the table other than his relationship to Wang.
If this guy has a background in Product Management/Marketing, then there is no issue. (And I am talking about something other than a degree).
It would be easy for me (anyone) to sit here and throw out plans/suggestions but without knowing the whole story of the Isles organization and their numbers, it would be foolish..
From a strictly "marketing" perspective, with so much "unused inventory" year to year, I applaud their focus on reaching the business community.
HOWEVER, in view of the large amount of unused inventory, I hope that they do not limit their focus there, especially to "businesses with 25 or more" employees.
Long Island's "business backbone" is the smaller business shop. Businesses with 25 or fewer employees..
Simply put, "1902 businesses with 25 employees or more" is a VERY LIMITED target audience, when you've got 15k seats per night X 41 games..
Drive around LI and it is clearly strip mall heaven, far more businesses with 25 or fewer employees.
Not to mention the LARGE number of professional (high yield) businesses (doctors, lawyers, dentists) etc located on the Island.
When I was back for the Ranger game, I stopped in a deli (funny thing) with my jersey on and the owner started chatting with me. Said that years ago he was an annual season ticket holder (small businesses with high cash income LOVE writeoffs like season tickets) but quit buying when he felt that he got screwed by previous owners as well as the fact that the cost of the tickets had gotten too high.
So there was clearly a disconnect there. And I bet that situation I describe can be played out 100/1000 times around the Island.
The Wang regime has got to BUILD something other than the Lighthouse.
They have to REBUILD the bridges with the SMALL business community on Long Island that were destroyed by previous owners.
Cause that is where the VOLUME is.
I would comment on PRICING structures/issues, but without having a spreadsheet in front of me, that would be grossly unfair.
Just my 2 cents.
"You want to blow a gasket.....Go to espn.co mand look at one of the main headlines on the right!
Ruutu SHINES in Penguins win over Isles."
LOL, well, he certainly WAS in the middle of everything last night.
Until we get a mauler on the roster, guys like Ruttu, Avery are gonna LOOK FORWARD to playing us.
The first thing Wang needs to do is move to Suffolk County. Nassau County has been dragging it's feet in regards to the renovations at the NVMC. You can't entice top players to Long Island without a decent arena. The Penguins took about 3 days to start building their new arena and we are stuck with a building that is falling down. There is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to Nassau County. The Lighthouse will never get built. The second thing they need to do is offer discounted tickets to adults 30-55 years old. They cater to every other demographic execpt the ones that have the money and passion for the team.I have no way of going to a game without paying full price. As for the 2 years season ticket deal, that is a joke. Why would I give the Islanders an intrest free loan? 14 montly payments still means that they have my money intrest free for a year. No way!
Hertz ~ The Penguins had one foot out the door and were about to move. It did not take 3 days to start. It took years and getting VERY LUCKY with a ping pong ball that landed them SYD THE KID !!!!! HE is the reason that the new arena was built!
The lighthouse project WILL GET DONE !!!
Have faith. Nassau County will bend!
Let me put it another way Steady,
And I write this in fun, cuz I HOPE that Mr. Dey has a "Marketing Plan" that is a little more extensive than what Greg has outlined here.
If I owned the Islanders and my son-in-law came in with the 2008 Marketing Plan and said "here we go Pops".
"Whaddya got there"....
"Well, I purchased this D+B report with the 1900 businesses on LI with 25 or more employees and we are going to ATTACK THEM, Dad".
"Ok, wa delse?"
"Well.....we had some success with "Loudville" this year, so we are gonna do that again".
"Ok, wa delse?"
"Uh......we're gonna offer a loyalty program to our current season ticket base and give them a 12% discount over 2 years with VIP Parking"..
"Hmmm....OK, wa delse?"
"Uh...well.....We're gonna add Hillary Duff to our advertising program to complement what Christie did for us".
"Really........what's that gonna do for us?"
"The same thing that Christie did?"
"Is that it son?"
"Yeah, Dad, whaddya think?".
At which point, I am reaching into my drawer and pulling out the smock and beanie I used to wear when I was a vendor for Harry M at MSG.
I am handing it to him and saying....
"Ya know son, take this smock, I think a year or two in the trenches selling ice cream and peanuts and soda is what you need before you do this other job I got for ya."
Mike....I apologize for everything I am about to write, but a call-out is MORE than warranted here:
Anybody who thinks this team should move to Suffolk County is a MORON who deserves to be publicly shamed. It is one of the most short-sighted, idiotic proposals I have ever seen or heard connected to ANY sports franchise. I was always glad this board, unlike the Hockeybuzz board, never devolved into this Suffolk County BS, but now that it's here I think it's time for Nick University to come in session:
1. Wang has worked with Nassau County and the Town of Hempstead over the past 5 years to develop a plan that could be acceptable to them. You bring Suffolk into this equation and it starts all over again. What's more, you basically close the door on Nassau because you make it look like all that goodwill you worked so hard to build doesn't actually count for anything.
2. People like MetalChick and myself who live/work in the City already have a hard time getting to games in time for a 7/7:30 PM start. Your solution is to move the arena 15-20 miles EAST?! What a fantastic idea, cut off 7 million potential fans from getting to the game.
3. Please educate me on where there is an acceptable site in Suffolk County. It's not all bucolic open spaces anymore, and I can't think of a single parcel of land large enough for a hockey arena that has a mass-transit link.
4. Suffolk County has its own problems and is not likely to put up any private funds. The development in and around the Lighthouse is meant to finance the construction of the arena. Please tell me where they could do that and why Suffolk would be amenable...And don't make me laugh with Pilgrim State. The Sagtikos is a far worse transportation artery than the Meadowbrook.
I apologize for coming at you personally, but I've felt this way for a long time, and sadly for you, you were the first one to propose it on this blog. The facts are very simple: you would be moving the team to a less densely-populated area than it currently inhabits, farther from what we've seen is a large base of fans in the City and NJ, and the team would STILL HAVE ALL THE PROBLEMS IT HAS NOW....except a few additional ones.
If anybody thinks Suffolk County is a good idea, I have a lovely portfolio of things to sell you, including the Tacoma Narrows Bridge (IT DANCES WITH THE WIND!) and acres upon acres of prime swampland in Florida.
Steady ~ The Penguins new ownership took over less than a year ago. They have already broken ground on a new arena an will be in there after next season. None of this had to do with winning the lottery and Crosby. Wang has been trying for years to build the arena is Nassau and it is no closer to be completed that it was when he bought the team 8 years ago. Nassau will never approve this deal. What make you think Nassau will bend. There is nothing in the way of him building this arena exept for political red tape. The Nets are getting a new arena in downtown Brooklyn. This required buy up property and the government enforcing eminent domain. This arena will be done before the Islanders get theirs.
Look no further than this continued Suffolk County SH!T for the real problem facing the Islanders - NO FAN UNITY.
Listen, as I posted on the 2 previous threads here, I was at the Town Council meeting this past Tuesday and got a lot of impressions regarding the Lighthouse. They are genuinely excited about the process, and it is currently moving forward with State environmental reviews - our friend D$ the environmental consultant has already educated us on how long and drawn-out that process is.
The concerns the Town has regarding the project are nothing new - the cost of Town services to support the area (police, fire, garbage collection), the height of the buildings (though it looks like the hotel will go through without much of a problem), and the breakdown of the housing - the Town wants more senior citizen and next-generation housing than they think the Lighthouse will be willing to provide (makes sense - condos cost more money, so the Lighthouse would want more of those).
Also, you talk about dragging their feet? By the Lighthouse's own admission, the application wasn't even submitted to the Town of Hempstead until the end of November! The Town isn't dragging its feet if it's only had 4 months to review the biggest building project since Levittown.
I believe whole-heartedly that the renovations will start next year. Show a little faith, and strike the words Suffolk County from your vocabulary. This is the time for fans to be united and save our Islanders, and this is what we need to understand:
The Lighthouse is the plan
The Lighthouse is moving forward
Anyone proposing an alternative is NOT HELPING
OK....I'm done now
Hertz does point out another issue.....
PRICING.....
Again, unfair to comment without seeing "the numbers" but....
perhaps being "$7.00 underneath the league average" in tkt price is not the best policy.
Especially when there are so many empty seats on a nightly basis. The only thing worse than dead inventory is dying inventory.
They could base an entire advertising program on having THE LOWEST prices in the league with very measurable success.
(It's kind of an old tried and true formula......beancounters and investors HATE IT, cuz all they care about is YIELD....but I always said screw them....I gotta pay the bills and volume works).
And I realize that is hard to do when (from what I am told) the Isles have a LOUSY arrangement with NVMC and get nothing from concessions.
But Pricing is huge in this little Marketing Mix needed for the Isles. Needs a complete and exhaustive review.
In addition...Pittsburgh only coughed up the money for the arena after granting licenses for Casino Gambling and facing a very real threat of the team moving. None of that has happened here, show a little faith in your owner.
As for ticket prices, I've heard from the horse's mouth many times that SMG controls ticket prices, not the Islanders themselves, and they would actually be far lower if the team got a greater share of the revenue....That lease expiring in 2015 (with the Lighthouse in existence) will revive this franchise even further.
Now I need to disconnect my aircard and do some work...I have a hard deadline at noon...
Attaboy Nick,
KEEP THOSE PUPPIES IN THE BOX!!!
"I have a hard deadline at noon..."
Nick's got a "nooner"!!!!!
you go boy!!!
To me this is very simple. This organization hasn't won a playoff series since 1993. I was there for game 6 against the Pens, there is no louder building in hockey than the Coliseum when the Isles are on a run in the playoffs. I was also there for game 3 against Montreal when Montreal had too many men on the ice in OT it wasn't called and they scored the game winner right after that. Back to this issue. Fans on LI are STARVED for a team that is a serious contender. Look at the Devils 3 cups since 95 a new building and they still have trouble drawing fans. You think the Isles would have trouble drawing if they had 3 cups since 95? You can't expect fans to pay high ticket prices for a sub par product. It is not the fault of the fans that the Isles are last in attendance it is the fault of the organization. I also find it disturbing if Wang is hiring family and friends instead of the best people for jobs within his organization I guess we'll have to wait and see on that.
Plan? Ju need a stinkin PLAN? listen up jefe, I got yours plan right here!!!!
First off ... let's go out in a blaze of glory! 4 straight losses should do the trick. Let's stay at 75 pts. and let Atlanta (72 pts. and a home and home w/ TB plus a home game w/ FLA left) zoom by us as well as STL (72 pts. w/ 5 games left including home games vs. CHI and CLS) ... that gives us the 3rd worse record in the league and maybe the hockey gods shine on our sorry butts and we win the draft lottery .... HELLO STEVE STAMKOS!!!!
If we could start this building program around guys like Stamkos, Okposo, Bergenheim, Comeau, Campoli, Nilesen, Tambellini, Gervais, etc. I would be more than okay with that.
Step 2: throw money at someone (anyone) that will come here and give this team a level of respectability. A hard working, defensive minded team that has a few guys that have the ability to ACTUALLY SCORE would be a team to be reckoned with. Is that guy Hossa? Who knows ... there are better hockey minds than myself out there but I do know one thing ... we constantly hear about all of this glorious cap space we have. Well, if we NEVER USE IT then what's the point in having it? Maybe Brian Campbell or Brian McCabe is the answer. Then we package Bruno and say Tambellini for a scorer or another high draft pick. All I know is that we need to do something. being the last kid to be picked for a kickball game every single year is getting very frustrating!!!
Step 3: Somebody please dynamite the NVMC. It's an embarrassment. No wonder nobody wants to play here. With all of the nice arenas going up around the league (plus better levels of talent) would you come here as a FA? Last year I had a tour of the NVMC and I was SHOCKED at the size of the player's locker room .... my walk in closet at home is bigger. As a matter of fact, it's so small that the Isles have 2 of them cause all of the players can't fit into one room. I'm serious too! Plus, their weight room is smaller than a HS gym's! That's no way for professional athletes to be dealt with ... yet another strike against the Isles.
That would be a good start .... we need a good team to rally behind. Just look at Pitt ... they were close to moving .... got lucky in the Crosby lottery ... team is young and on the verge of greatness now ... the fans came back and are packing the building ... and they have a new arena on the way! Why can't that be us?????????
Where are the ISLANDERS in the standings compared to the RANGERS????????
Where are all the BIG MOUTHS from months ago????
One thing I left out this organization hasn't had a quality GM since Torrey left. I never forget Moloney leaving Tommy Fitzgerald unprotected in the expansion draft and the Panthers picking him up. I think that's what happened if my memory is correct. We don't need to go into Milbury. Neil Smith was here for a cup of coffee and now Snow. Remember the Isles had the now Sabres GM in their organization and didn't promote him. I wonder if Islander history would have turned out different if they had.
Looks like responses to this topic got off to a running start...
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** Michael S. Said ~
"Baby steps - you cannot expect over night miracles. Everywhere else in the league these things have progressed gradually."
Michael... Baby steps? This baby is 15 years old now. LOL!! Seriously .. I understand that you are looking from here on out .. but can the organization afford 3 years of this? Or are we commited to truely building a core of players that go beyond the core that he mentioned.
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** Steady Said ~
"See what John Adams did to the French in the HBO movie....Times it by 50 and that is the way I act towards the sports fans around here.....They hate me so much, I think now they love me :) :) :) "
Yeah Steady ... I was finally watched that episode of John Adams following the game last night while I was posting on the previous thread ... I said to myself ... that is exactly what we need in the organization ... minus the sickness of course.
Steady ... your 8:24 post is dead on. I posted back at the very start of the season that the Isles will live and die by their special teams... and they most certainly did a great job on the dying part.
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**Steady also said ~
"WHY WANGER ???? NOW yo uare putting family who know less than you to promote the team ???? This guy does not know the difference between a hockey puck and a beach ball !!! Hire ONE OF US to promote the team......Not your computer programer!
Steady ... I had grave concerns about this when it was announced last year. I think a few of us chirped mildly about it and mocked it a bit and then moved quickly to another subject.
The thing that really kills me now about it is what is his experience. 505 broke it down very well. I just feel just as the Isles need a rock solid stud GM, they also are in desperate need of a rock solid stud Marketing VP ... Mr. Dey definitely has the support of Mr. Wang ... and I'll give him this much ... he tweaked attendance up a bit ... but given the Isles good performance for 2/3 of the season, a few alumni recognition games (which they shouldn't rely on) and the already low attendance... it really wasn't that hard to increase attendance 686 fans on average.
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** ex-guy said ~
"pardon me but ...a-hem, uh, i don't think is a good enough nucleus to build a consistent winner around, nevermind 100 points per year. no defensemen in the nucleus? even the goalie is a question mark now and it all starts there. back to the drawing board?"
Well said ex-guy
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** Tonysac said ~
"Totally off topic:.....Am I the only one who is disgusted by Dubies helmet? THe fisherman logo was the most embarassing times for the islanders in franchise history and Dubie Paints the fisherman on his Helmet..iF HE stays as our backup next year, HE BETTER change that design on his helmet.."
I agree 100000% ... when I saw his helmet I said ... nice helmet ... but that fisherman logo has got to go .... it is a legacy icon of the worst times in Islander history ... didn't anyone tell that to Dubie? Embarassing.
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** Tonysac also said ~
"Its nice to see we supposedly have a "PLAN".. and the plan does sound somewhat promising...Having a good draft, picking up a solid PP quaterback, Goal Scorer and a solid Defensemen...If we have to wait 3 yrs to be a solid contender for the next 10 yrs, i think its worth the wait, and patience...its been so long that this team has executed a SOLID PLAN..so lets give wanger, snow, and nolan the benefit of the doubt"
I agree ... it is nice to have a PLAN ... but that bares to question .... Did we not have a plan until recently??? Of course they have a plan .... but what gets me is ... we've all posted those needs on here all season long .... so Yeahhhh ... did they just figure that out? .... and if that has been "The Plan" all along ... what is the strategy to executing that plan? That is more important than any plan itself. Do they have a Plan B? And what is the strategy for executing Plan B?
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** 505 said ~
"Just my 2 cents."
Everything you said in your post is potent and bares consideration ... you are a true grassroots catalyst. So everyone should scroll up and real 505's post again ... what he says is vital to the organization coming out of this funk.
505 sums it up with this: "They have to REBUILD the bridges with the SMALL business community on Long Island that were destroyed by previous owners.
Cause that is where the VOLUME is."
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** Mike Hocherly-Hertz said ~
"The first thing Wang needs to do is move to Suffolk County."
Mike that would only make a bad situation worse...
Ask the guys here that don't make the games because they have to commute in from the city .... Queens and Brooklyn historically have contained a solid fan base for the Isles ... moving away further away from key population centers is going in the wrong direction.
Takes long enough to get to NVMC for many Isles fans on the western frontiers of NYC ... you'll totally cut off a potential fan base.. and thusly revenue streams. Nassau County gave their blessing to the project .... the hurdle now was explained by Nick in the previous thread sometime yesterday.
If anything if things don't work out on the current site of NVMC ... the Isles should look towards The Aquaduct site, Belmont Complex, Brooklyn with the Nets. Need population and business centers ... I think the importance of businesses was pretty well laid out by Logan in the article, Chris Dey and 505 in his post.
Posted by Mike Hocherly-Hertz
The first thing Wang needs to do is move to Suffolk County.
I have a feeling this may be what happens. I'm pretty sure it's his Plan B, rather than any attempt at Brooklyn, which itself is now in jeopardy. And if this does become the plan, things will move rather quickly.
Posted by twocents | March 28, 2008 11:37 Posted by Mike Hocherly-Hertz
The first thing Wang needs to do is move to Suffolk County.
I have a feeling this may be what happens. I'm pretty sure it's his Plan B, rather than any attempt at Brooklyn, which itself is now in jeopardy. And if this does become the plan, things will move rather quickly.
despite Nick's emotion driven, less than convincing rantings.
Emotion-driven? You seriously think that alienating half the fan base and making the arena even more unreachable than it is is an emotion-driven argument? You must be joking me.
Trust me...the Lighthouse is moving forward, and we should concentrate on approving that plan.
19Isles...
"I was finally watched that episode of John Adams following the game last night while I was posting on the previous thread ... I said to myself ... that is exactly what we need in the organization ..."
Eh, don't discount the value of elderly kite flyers who get a lot more accomplished by simply engaging in bathtub based naked chess matches with Granny from Playboy Magazine.
I have to give props to 19Isles, who explained the issue very cogently and clearly. The project is moving forward, and I think they're in too deep to pull out now. The Lighthouse, in some form will exist.
However....I have never mentioned the biggest hurdle, which is mass transit to the site. Our group is trying to get in touch with the powers-that-be in order to let our ideas be heard, since we think that mass transit is the weakest part of the plan (since there doesn't seem to be a plan). Everyone knows the NIMBY's cry about traffic more than anything else when it comes to Long Island projects....we need to have a realistic, good plan that shuts them up and alleviates the traffic increases in the area. Our group has a few ideas, what do other people think?
Oh well....I'm off, 505, for my nooner...HAHA
twocents ~
Suffolk County? You understand what Nick said though is emotionally driven post? He is 100000% correct ... and you can't look towards a place that will have 10x the marketing problems as the Isles have now .... which is loring a fan base to the NVMC.
We have to focus on the current site and support it 100% .... explaining further is pointless.
-------------------------------------------
Back to the marketing front ~
I've always found that the Isles pigeon holed itself to being Long Island's team. If that is what they truely want to represent then they should strike the NY from the logo and replace it with LI ... alienating a huge 8M+ city population that borders only 10 miles away is a huge marketing error.
The Rangers fully market themselves in the LI market ... they call themselves NY's team ... and reach out to all the suburbs including NJ. They don't even have to do that. With 80% of their seats sold as corporate season tix they can sit back and count money.
The Isles paid a territorial fee to the Rangers 36 years ago... and should do a full court press marketing campaign in Queens ... and then migrate west.
Let the rest of the area know that we are here too.
It seems ridiculous that I even have to say this. Chris Dey ... NYC is your hidden gem..... raw untapped hockey fan base in the 4 outter boros.
Back in the 70s and 80s there were tons of Islander swag and items. I never thought of the Islanders as a Long Island only team as a kid. I thought just as with the Jets and Giants, Yankees and Mets, Knicks and Nets that it was natural for a city to have two teams. The Islanders just got lucky and landed me as a fan. :)
Even the newspapers I read that were local Staten Island newspapers had a beat writer for the Islanders. I actually know the guy.
The Islanders need to extend their foot print to encompass all of NYC and go for Westchester too while you are at it. I don't think current Islander ownership understands that the Isles were at one time very prominent in NYC's outter boros.... and even in NJ.
I used to go to Seaside Hts. in NJ and there was a hockey shooting game there .... teams.... Islanders, Rangers and Flyers.
Once the Devils won their first cup in 95 .... that sparked the begining of Bad times for the Isles ... and they haven't gotten the boots of the Devils off their neck ever since.... and that is a team that hasn't had much luck selling out their building even when they did win cups.
Like 505 said .... VOLUME, Rebuild Bridges.
I am with you Nick....The lighthouse is going to happen!
Isles27: All Nolan bs aside, that is what I have been preaching since two years ago. I never said Nolan was God, but I DID SAY Wang and Snow were complete and utter BOBBLEHEAD MORONS !!!
Wang is a brilliant when it coems to running a corportaion. It starts and ends there! He needs to step aside from the everyday hockey part of being an owner. He needs to stop trying to re-invent the wheel and listen to the hockey gurus. Name me a team with a meddling owner that wins??? When did the Pats get good ??? When Kraft put his fat a^^ up in the luxury box and stopped messing with Parcels and Belechick. When did the Yankees get good again? When Stick Michaels kept Jeter, Bernie, Mo, Posada and General George was suspended and could not trade them. Look at the Orioles! RedSkins! It DOES NOT WORK !!
I will say it until I am blue in the face....IT STARTS AT THE TOP!
I will give Snow this off-season before I put a hit on him. Wanger I have completely given up on. His family running p.r , yet knows nothing about Long Island or Hockey ???????? Put AZS or MERRICK in charge of that....A long time NYer that has paid his dues and has season tickets (a degree or specialty in the field would help :) :) )
We are proof the fans in NY have passion. Start at the top and work your way down. Get a hockey man people want to come and listen to. We got a good coach. If we build it....THE FANS WILL COME !!! Remember the Toronto series ??? Proof positive that the old barn can still ROCK !!!!! Just get the pieces in place...Do not start with the pawns, start with a new or smarter King !!!
19Isles....
"you are a true grassroots catalyst."
So....are you saying that I would make a good poster boy for a revolutionary product developed for Scott's Turfbuilder Weed and Seed?
An environmentally sound product that would have zero impact on ground water supply, other fauna and animal species, yet provide homeowners with lush and vibrant green lawns?
The equivalent of an ecological wet dream for D-Money?
Hey, if the money's right.....I'm game.
RE: Tix prices.
I am assuming that as good as the long term cable deal is for the Islanders .... that the ticket proceeds deal with SMG is as bad as the cable deal is good.
Nick stated that he heard from the horses' mouths that SMG controls ticket prices. If SMG controls the price of tickets ... am I also to assume that SMG also gets the meat of the proceeds. Does this truely give the Isles ownership incentive to sell tickets? It seems they want fannies in the seats.... only natural .... what exactly is the arrangement. I'm in the dark here.
The Isles pay a lease to SMG ... if SMG also controls the prices doesn't that seem odd? If I rented space from a strip mall to open a store .... would the landlord control the prices of the good I sell?
What is wrong with this picture?
So the Isles can't lower the ticket prices. Does this mean when they eat the differene when the come up with these special promotional pricing plans and specials for certain games?
I believe the Isles should have a sliding pricing scale depending on who is coming into town.
Your A games ~ Divisional ... or other teams of interest.
Your B games ~ Conference ... or other teams of interest.
Your C games ~ Inter-Conference ...
and they can determine fan interest in other teams based on years of attendance comparissions vs. other games of the same season. Also the Isles record then and currently have to be taken into account.
Also .. I think for season ticket plans ... the Isles should have a discount for home team record. Start by giving back 5% for every loss prorated per ticket of a game attended.
I've posted my feelings about this in the past ... just had to restate them.
OK Steady we have reached common ground let's stay there. Does anybody really think the Isles got respect around the league after they promoted their backup goalie to GM. Do you really think Snow has the respect of his fellow GM's even now? God knows where we would be right now if Wang had fired Milbury when he bought the team and would have hired a respected NHL person to run the show. The mismanagement of this organization goes back more than 10 years and it's still going to take a while to climb out of this hole we are in.
Other marketing ideas.....
I've mentioned this before also.....
They started a fan loyalty season ticket plan ... it may or may not be a good plan.... I'll leave that up to the fans that purchase those plans to judge it over time....
However I feel that their should be an Islander Fan card .... almost like a frequent flyer plan. It can attached to the login ID for the Isles website etc.
It works like this: You earn points of different values when you purchase item from the Islander team store, purchase tickets, buy Islander merchandise from other venues / stores, log onoto the website, watch games on TV (every game should broadcast a unique key-code that can be entered on the Isles website to credit the fan's account an appropriate amount of points) ... you can also earn points for attending Isles games at other arenas (although less value then going to NVMC) ..... earn points by patronizing Islander advertisers, business allies and sponsors.... I can go on.
What does a fan get for these points? The fans get discounts .. on merchandise, tickets, parking and can even be extended to working out a deal with Islander advertisers to extend discounts at their businesses to Islander fans.... again ... I can go on.
Chris Dey .... you need our help... we are the people you are marketing too .... so put down your demographic spread sheets and come out and get it from the grass roots....
Oh ..... and 505 ..... Ioved your little bit about Chris Dey's meeting with Charles Wang. .... priceless.
Isle27 ~
SPOT ON!!!
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Steady ~
You nailed it.... and yeah .. the old barn still has that magic when the Isles are in it.
I was at 2 of the games against T.O. .... I remember I couldn't hear myself screaming and cheering the whole place was sooo loud. Infact ... I think that is part of what makes that place so loud ... When we start yelling and cheering and can't hear ourselves ... it makes us yell even louder..... ahhhhh gotta love that ..... I hope the renovations to affect the dB level in an adverse way .... we better do an environmental impact report on that too. ;)
505 said ~ "So....are you saying that I would make a good poster boy for a revolutionary product developed for Scott's Turfbuilder Weed and Seed?
An environmentally sound product that would have zero impact on ground water supply, other fauna and animal species, yet provide homeowners with lush and vibrant green lawns?
The equivalent of an ecological wet dream for D-Money?
Hey, if the money's right.....I'm game. "
Yeah ... that is what I'm saying .... and you'll thank me for that one day .... because when D-Money is the only guy out west sitting back in a lounge chair with a cooler full of cold ones on acres of lush green lawns, vibrant wooded hills and scenic wetlands teaming with wild life .... and you are trapped in a sandy desert with nothing put a beach ball, pail and shovel and a dry cooler with one warm beer and an open invite to D-Money's sanctuary .... what are you going to choose?
LOL!
27...I am like a fungus...I grow on you after awhile :). I apologize if I am LOUD sometimes...It is in my DNA....I have fought with AZS, Merrick, Candyman, and countless trolls. I realize the common thread here is me.... :) :)....I admit when I am wrong, yet stand and fight for what I believe to be true. One of those being Nolan! If over the next few years he is given talent and does not perform, I will eat crow and support kicking him back to Moosejaw. I think I have been pretty good at picking things correctly the past few years. As have many of you!
You guys in NY have to deal with the Rangers fans on a daily basis. As do I through my business circles and what not. I also have to deal with the Chowdah heads every second of every day. They all know how big of a sports fan I am in the office and in the streets. Hockey is Life here !!!! So I get really fired up about the topics and sometimes have to remember most of you want the same goal as me.....A contender!
With that said I am off to NYC for weekend with family and friends. Tribeca Grand Hotel if anyone ants to pop in for coctail or twelve! Would of loved to go to the Island for the game, but this is part bus. and part pleasure....Can't skip away this time :) !!!
Bring up KIP BRENNAN for the Flyer game....And the Rags series! What do we have to lose ?????? Let's see if he can be apart of the future! Is he still hurt or suspended ???
Tribeca Grand Hotel? Haha, well Steady if you'll be there in a few hours I might meet you. I'm working in Tribeca right now.
Posted by Nick | March 28, 2008 11:57 Emotion-driven? You seriously think that alienating half the fan base and making the arena even more unreachable than it is is an emotion-driven argument? You must be joking me.
Trust me...the Lighthouse is moving forward, and we should concentrate on approving that plan.
I hope you guys are right. I grew up 10 minutes from the Coliseum, spent a good part of my teens there and I actually still like going there. I would love to see this project happen, but I have a deep seated mistrust of those people who will REALLY decide the fate of the project and am very leery of their ability to get it done, even if enough of them decide that way. Aside from that cynicism, I also think recent signals about delays and possible scrapping of the big project in Brooklyn, and other development deals in the metro area, do not bode well for a massive project in Nassau/TOH. A confluence of economic factors at just the wrong time is going to factor into their thinking. It has to. An arena in Suffolk could likely be a stand alone project, which is a more palatable and feasible deal to get through. Also, and I know you guys don't seem to agree with this, I can't see how an arena near the Nassau-Suffolk border would be so far away from Uniondale that noone would go if there's a good team to see.
I want the Lighthouse/Coliseum to work just like you guys. But I am not as optimistic as you, for several reasons, and my worst fear is the plan gets shelved or worse, and we lose the team entirely.
Steady,
It's been a while since I posted. Not much to say, I guess. I agree with your assessment of Nolan, and the fact that they need a fourth liner who can protect the first liners. Goddard might be the answer in that they could get 7-8 minutes out of him on the fourth line. I'm not so sure Brennan is responsible enough... I have never seen him play.
I was wondering what your thoughts were on Davison and Spiller now that you've gotten to see them a little bit more.
Both of them have played pretty tough in their own end but make a lot of mistakes. Spiller is way too slow for the NHL(IMHO) but he has delivered some good stand up "D" at the blue line. The guins announcers (good god I could rant about those morons for hours... they have no memories, and now they think they are calling games for 87 Oilers) said that Davison was "hunting" players down and laying them out. I haven't seen that.. but the same guys said that Sid was one of the "tougher" young players in the league.. I haven't a clue what they're watching. I'm over forty and the last weight I picked up was 16oz... but I'm pretty sure I could make Crosby cry.
Anyway... just wanted your opinion on those guys. I think they are both BP keepers, but if either of them are in the October starting lineup we're in trouble.
JP ~ What's up pal.....I absolutely see nothing positive about # 3. I think he is constantly out of position, does not deliver a wallop, and simply never sticks up for his teamates. Spiller shows signs, and would like to see him grow on the farm....Asham welcomed him with a one punch knock out! OUCH !!!
Speaking of which...I would LOVE to sign him next year as well for the 4th line! He plays tough, will throw down, and has a hell of a slap shot when he uses it !!!
***Nick...Will be in NYC at around 8pm...Reservations at Dylan Prime right near you :) :) ... Great place for a steak and superb little late night bar! ***
Dylan Prime is a good place....but I'm feeling under the weather and definitely won't last that long....Have a good weekend, Oracle
Excellent article by Ross McKeon at Yahoo Sports..
Here is a link .... http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_ylt=AggzfZs3elvqbDWyZjcCqpx7vLYF?slug=rm-expandplayoffs032708&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
My reaction to that article:
The NHL does need to showcase more of its teams and more of its talent during the post season.
As odd as it would be to have 4 more teams qualify for the playoffs.... the NHL doesn't have the luxury of the NBA, MLB or NFL with regards to their grassroots popularity. There is that word again 505.
I've posted on other websites before over the years with lots of variations of a post season tournament.
I believe in shortening the exhibition season .. but not the regular season. NHL players are compensated at a very high rate vs. the revenue they bring in for their respective clubs compared to their athletes in other sports.
I'd suggest instead of having the current first round of the playoffs the NHL substitute that with 10, 11 or 12 teams in each conference play in a preliminary round robin tournament (RRT). The division winners are seeded 1-2-3. Then the remaining teams are seeded in point order.
The following is an example of a 10 team Round Robin Tourney.
The 3 division champs are awarded 4 points at the start of the tournament (Regular season consideration). Seeds 4-7 are awarded 2 points and seeds 8-10 zero points to start.
The top 3 division champs do not face each other in the RRT. They play 1 game against each of the 7 lowest seeded teams for a total of 7 games and 14 point potential to add to their 4 point head start. So they have an 18 point potential.
The bottom 3 teams do not face one another either. They will play 1 game each against the top 7 seeded teams for a total of 7 games, with a 14 point potential maximum.
The middle 4 teams play 1 game each against the top 3 and bottom 3 teams. They also play only one game against a team in the middle 4. 4th seed play's 7th seed and 5th seed plays 6th seed for a total of 7 games. They only get a 2 point head start to add to their point totals for a maximum potential of 16 points.
After all games are played the top 4 point getters go to the conference semi-finals and a normal best of 7 begins.. and the playoffs continue as usual for 3 more rounds.
Of course my idea may require some tweaking (allocation of headstart points, initial seeding determinations etc.)
I think having a round robin tournament allows more teams to participate in the post season and with every team required to play a min of 7 games in 2 weeks this significantly boosts revenues at the gate.... gets more fans focuses on playoffs during the most imporant time of the year. A win win situation.
you guys are pissers...certainly know the end of the season is near whey there is talk about an environmental consultant's wet dream on a hockey blog! But, that is why I like this site..
In any case, Nick, keep pushing those ideas on mass transit, gonna be a huge part of quieting the critics, and if Wang and Co. aren't pushing it hard core, then it is going to be the public that has to force it upon them, or at least to consider it further!
If I remember correctly Steady I don't think Nolan cared for Asham last year because he felt Asham took too many "stupid" penalties
Refresh
Sorry 505 ... more weird math here... LOL
The 11 team RRT configuration:
You seed the regular season division champs 1-2-3....
Then take the remaining 8 teams and seed them in point total order.
The top 3 seeds this time start with 6 points again for a reward of regular season success .
The top 3 seeds only play against the bottom 5 teams for a 5 game total... and 10 potential points to go with their automatic 6 points for a maximum of 16 points.
The bottom 5 teams only play against the top 6 teams for a 6 game total.. and potential 12 points maximum.
The 4th - 6th ranked teams also only play against the bottom 5 teams for a total of 5 games and a 10 point potential to go with an automatic 4 points as a reward of finishing in the top 6 during the regular season.
The top 4 teams in point totals move ahead to the conference semi-finals and the playoffs pick up as it normally would with 3 rounds of best of 7's.
One more math calculati-own for ya 505.
The only problem I have with a 12 team Round Robin Tournament is you are eliminating only 3 teams in each conference ... however it is the simplest playoff configuration. It also gives a decent amount of games spread over a 2 week period.
12 also gives a good playoff atmosphere to a good portion of NHL markets and may just be the thing the NHL needs.
The 12 team RRT configuration:
You seed the regular season division champs 1-2-3....
Then take the remaining 9 teams and seed them in point total order.
The top 3 seeds this time start with 4 points again for a reward of regular season success .
The top 3 seeds only play against the bottom 6 teams for a 6 game total... and 12 potential points to go with their automatic 4 points for a maximum of 16 points.
The bottom 6 teams only play against the top 6 teams for a 6 game total.. and potential 12 points maximum.
The 4th - 6th ranked teams also only play against the bottom 6 teams for a total of 6 games and a 12 point potential to go with an automatic 2 points as a reward of finishing in the top 6 during the regular season.
The top 4 teams in point totals move ahead to the conference semi-finals and the playoffs pick up as it normally would with 3 rounds of best of 7's.
I also toyed with divisional playoffs .. but 3 divisons don't allow for 4 teams to enter the conference semi-finals.
In all tie breakers for all the RRT scenarios start with head to head ... goal differential & regular season standings.