Give Ted Nolan some credit for his nerve. The franchise goaltender is the one with the 15-year contract, but Nolan refused to base his decision on that when he chose to play backup Wade Dubielewicz ahead of Rick DiPietro against the Rangers Thursday night at Nassau Coliseum.
The Islanders suffered a 4-1 loss, but the score included an empty-netter, and in the end, the defense broke down and the power play went kaput, leaving Dubielewicz to fend for himself just as DiPietro has been forced to do much of this season. Nolan risked messing with the head of the goaltender the Islanders are built around, but he reinforced the chain of command and his coaching prerogative to act in the best interests of the team.
DiPietro’s mediocre stats since the All-Star break suggested he needed an extended rest to refresh mind and body. He made 14 straight starts until the unfortunate death of his grandmother necessarily forced him to take time off to grieve with his family and to attend the wake and the funeral.
The way it works out now, DiPietro will have had a full week off plus two full practices and a pre-game skate to work out the kinks before he returns to net tomorrow night in Philadelphia. And to listen to Nolan after the Rangers loss, the last 13 games belong to DiPietro, barring injury or poor performance.
“Now, he’s got two practices,” Nolan said, including today’s session, “and he’ll run with it from here on in.”
DiPietro felt he was ready to go Thursday against the Rangers, but he handled it well when Nolan let him know what to expect Wednesday morning. “I don’t think Ricky’s self-confidence is ever in question,” Islanders goaltender coach Mike Dunham said that day. “He’s proven he’s one of the top goalies in the league. He wants to be out there every game, but this just gives Ricky a couple more days of practice.
“Ricky went out there to practice [Wednesday] knowing, and he worked hard. That’s a sign of maturity.”
Not only has DiPietro looked sharp, but he sounds good, chirping at his teammates in an upbeat manner. “The biggest thing was seeing him fresh mentally,” Dunham said. “When you’ve played so many games, sometimes, a mental break is all you need.”
As Dunham noted, DiPietro’s All-Star game start for the Eastern Conference might have been an honor he coveted, but it didn’t afford him any time away from hockey. The Islanders were coming off a loss at Boston before the break, and when the season resumed, their losing streak grew to seven games. Dubielewicz gave up two goals in the one game he played in that stretch, and DiPietro allowed four goals in five of his six losses.
“Every goalie goes through a period where you’re not at 100 percent,” Dunham said, referring simply to DiPietro’s effectiveness. “Ricky’s played a lot of games for us, and sometimes, the best thing to do is to go back to keeping things simple, getting out on top of the crease and just tracking the puck.”
During his break, DiPietro has been reviewing tape with Dunham and working on the basics. Asked if the time off might be good for him physically, DiPietro said, “You can look at it two ways. I mean, we’re kind of getting down here to the nitty-gritty. This isn’t a time I want to take a rest.”
Reminded how well he usually plays after a break, DiPietro said, “I guess. I’ve been in the All-Star game, and I really haven’t had a chance to get much time off. I’m just trying to stay sharp. Maybe at the end of the day, it will be good that I was away from the rink for a couple days. We’ll find out.”
If DiPietro’s stats don’t improve, it will be a big surprise. At the same time, Dunham said goalies can’t be judged by stats alone. Sometimes, there’s no accounting for the unpredictable bounces that take place, and sometimes, their job is to serve as the last line of defense for a team that has given up 14 short-handed goals, which is four more than the next-worst team in the NHL and plays havoc with a goaltender’s numbers.
Despite sitting out the past three games, DiPietro has made 59 starts and should easily surpass his previous high of 63 set two years ago. Injuries limited him to 62 last season. DiPietro is a superbly conditioned athlete, but he underwent hip surgery last spring and has overcome a sprained knee and a minor injury to the other hip this season.
He aspires to match Devils goaltender Martin Brodeur as the Cal Ripken Jr. of goaltenders, but you have to wonder if Nolan and the Islanders need to take a more conservative approach with DiPietro’s mind and body. On an emotional level, DiPietro runs more hot and cold than the even-tempered Brodeur, so, more regular rest might prove beneficial in helping him maintain a high level of play.
A 65-game season sounds about right. But try telling that to DiPietro.
“Marty’s not a good role model,” Dunham said with a laugh. “He plays 75 games a year. He sets the bar very high. Having said that, I like to see Ricky in there all the time.
“Ricky is so competitive that he never wants to say he wants a night off. He wants to be the guy. That’s what makes the great goaltenders. They want to be out there every night and give their team a chance to win. Circumstances, with him having to go back home, provided that [break]. Whether he wanted that or not, he got it. The biggest thing for us now is to turn that to our advantage.”
ISLANDERS INSIDER: For the full-page version of Islanders Insider, including a segment about the development of prospects from Bridgeport and an injury update on Jonathan Sim and Mike Sillinger along with other entertaining tidbits, please click here.
Comments (112)
Continued from last thread
Not much more to say aside from what everyone's been saying. I will however admit that Aaron Johnson really disappointed me. He let Avery get to him early, and that's basically the equivalent of not stopping my dog the first time he tries to hump your leg - he'll continue to do it with increasing intensity for the rest of the time you're around. Johnson needs to step up on the mental side of the game, and until that happens I want to see Drew Fata out there instead.
Merrick, looks like we're in for the same sentence - I'll be in Philly, section 212.
Sometimes I feel like Nolan is completely mindless out there—as if his coaching decisions were based on a video game’s knowledge of the Isles. Hear me out…
1. In a video game, the PP lines and PK lines are predetermined. It doesn’t matter how many times a strategy fails or the players fail, the game still rolls out the same lines with the same strategy. Sounds a lot like Nolan.
2. In a video game, a player’s ability and skill will stay the same throughout a season. A Blake Comeau video game version could never be more than a 4th line player. However in real life, kids mature and improve and make a case to be considered for top line minutes. Yet Nolan still treats Comeau like a scrappy 4th liner.
3. Along the same lines, players’ abilities can deteriorate over a season in real life (although this doesn’t happen in a video game)—take Hunter for example. In a video game, Hunter (a former 25 goal man) would see top line minutes and ample power play time. Yet in real life, Hunter has lost his scoring touch and is now more of a checking line winger. Yet Nolan continues to employ his video game logic and continues to roll Hunter on the PP over guys like Comeau, Bergenheim, Tambellini, all who are young creative players that could help us score.
4. Lastly, in a video game, you have a depth chart, so if a defenseman goes down, the next defenseman in line will be called up. For the Isles, that defenseman in Aaron Johnson. At the beginning of the season, AJ was the 7th d-man waiting in the wings. Now it seems no matter what happens, AJ will always be the next man in, just as a video game would always insert the 7th defenseman. However, in reality, Drew Fata has proven to be a more effective choice yet is still further down than AJ.
My point is that many times throughout this season I have seen Nolan take the easy way out—making the mindless decision. His ability to get the most out of mediocre players is a great asset for a coach. His teams work hard and they mostly like playing for him. However, there comes a time when some basic hockey understanding needs to be considered. It’s pathetic that I would trust every AHL team’s 5 on 3 ability over that of the Isles.
Good post Candy. This goes back to the kind of reporting inquiries, we asked for earlier in the year--e.g., the fans want to know why...?
Now a Coach can roll his eyes, especially someone like me with no history of playing ice hockey, but at least give us an answer.
There's a school of counseling known as SBT--Solution Based Therapy. In essence, it says at some point you have to push the psychobabble aside, stop navel gazing--and simply stop doing things that don't work and do more of what does work. In marriage, it means for a guy to stop trying to unsuccessfully beat logic into his wife's head and acknowledge the emotional needs your wife is seeking in lieu of logic--even if it totally defies the guy's conventional approach and sense of how things should operate. Why would a scientist continue to pursue a cherished hypothesis with the same experiment over and over again if he blew up his lab every time. It's ego over objectivity.
Alas, even the great ones can succumb to their own ego, And to me, Nolan rolling the same guys on the PP is example of a guy determined to prove hge is right, while blowing up his lab every time.
Nick, I think I'm in the corner in 205. I hope top do the Philly daytime educaitonal tour with my son. He wants to bring a bag to wear over his head--and I told him it's okay, but only on the PP! So look for the bagmen when the Flyers take a penalty.
Merrick said: "Why would a scientist continue to pursue a cherished hypothesis with the same experiment over and over again if he blew up his lab every time. It's ego over objectivity."
A perfect analogy. I love it.
Merrick & Candyman .... I have to agree with you ... especially when it comes to experimenting with the kids.
I'll give Nolan this much ... he has done a lot .. with very little ... or as our esteemed fellow poster Steady put it ... Nolan is trying to make Lobster Salad with a can of cat food.
That being said ... Nolan has been given a few fresh new ingredients ... but he has yet to push them and use them. Maybe what he sees in practice doesn't give him much confidence in using them? Who knows?
I'm grateful that we are still talking about making the playoffs with only 13 games to play. Because with the injuries and what we had to start with for a roster really didn't have me all tingly for the cup back during training camp.
The Isles are in dire need of a top 5 pick .... and they are just too good to be landing that low in the draft order ... they may just squeek into the playoffs ... if they can solve Philly ... they have to beat Philly in the 3 games left agains them .... that can be a 12 point swing.... and of course the other games matter too ... the Isles have a few light games thrown in there ... and we know that Nolan is going to stick with DP and his Vets ... but I really think we are going to sink or swim with the kids ... the Vets keep us around 500 ... which will not do it .... the kids could push us over the top ... and if the Isles PP can go a respectable 80% over the balance of the season ... they have a shot.
Merrick ... that was classic with the bag over the head bit. Your kid is a riot.
After listening to Wang on the FAN yesterday ... I have to say ... it took me several years ... but now I'm convinced that Wanger really has no clue on what it takes to be a Stanely Cup Champion ... even though it stares him in the face every time he walks down the corridors of NVMC.
What does he see when he walks down those corridors? He sees pictures of a collection of some of the greatest players ever ... and definitely the greatest of their time to play the game.
The Isles never would of been able to accomplish that without the 4 main players (Bossy, Trotts, Potvin, Smitty & Smitty), and 8 really huge supporting players that IMO are better than anyone we have now (Nystrom, Gillies, Tonelli, Goring, Bourne, B. Sutter, D. Sutter & Morrow) ... not to mention the others in the core of four ceremony that Wang got to meet.
I wanted to shake him. He told M&MD that he expects to win the Stanley Cup every year ... or else why be here. Why be here? Being there is to win ... but in order to win ... you need to assemble a champion ... not hope to win ... Hope is when you have no control over and outcome .. but hope that the outcome results in your favor.
Expecting to win and wanting to win are two different things. I want the Isles to win the Stanley Cup ... I don't expect them to win the Stanley Cup. I root for them to win the Stanley Cup .. but if they don't .. I will not be shocked.
If Donald Trump owned the Isles ... losing .... would never be an option.
DT would of had the TOH's and Nassau Cty's approval to re-build NVMC 5 years ago.
DT honors the military and would maintain that same tradition that the Isles keep in honoring vets.
DT would probably move the Isles minor league team to Atlantic City or some other town of noteriety .... like Brooklyn ... LOL!!
DT would probably put his initials on the Isles logo ... or at least on the sleeves of the Isles jersey. LOL!!
DT would probably have the BEST NHL minds managing and coaching the Isles .... and we'd have more GMs and Coaches in 3 years than in the entire history of the franchise if there were not any championships.
DT would have his Trump logo on every puck.
DT would be reviled as much as George Steinbrener is in Baseball.
DT would assemble a winner in less than 5 years.... and then the Isles would be a year over year nemisis to the rest of the NHL
You guys know I like Nolan. I think he is bringing the kids along at a snails pace on purpose. If the MEts diod that with Strawberry and Gooden, Mets would have more rings....I realize MLB is different.
My only question is this....WHO REPLACES HIM ??? We already have no talent. You guys really want to start with a whole new philosophy also ?????
WANG needs to either sell the team or open his vault and get a true hockey mind in here....HE IS A BOBBLEHEAD!!! He sits up in his bat cave and wines and dines asian business associates. He broadcasts his games to ASIA, yet cannot get a team worthy to listen to in LONG ISLAND!!!
**Clueless rags fans....If you truly want the Isles to move one day.....THAN YOU ARE NOT A HOCKEY FAN.....That is like a Yankee fan saying he wants the Red Sox to fold.....FREAKING CLUELESS !!! YOUR OWN BOARD HATES YOU PEOPLE !!!
p.s How come you guys talk smack to the Devils??? We have won 4 cups, you bought one, and then they won 3 CUPS.....Seems like the Rags are the middle child....Which explains all of you trolls !!
Steady .... it took me a reallllly long time to come around about Wang ... I don't know if it was because I was out of touch .. or if I just believed he surrounded himself with people that really knew what they were doing .... and my only negative thought of him was that he was too loyal to mad Mike Milbury.
Now ... after seeing several of his speeches .... and the PR wall that surrounds him I have been able to see through it all.
Yes ... he loves Long Island ... Yes .... he's an industrious and intelligent man. But!!!!
He truely has no idea of how to run a hockey team. Do you notice that most of the teams in any sport that have owners meddling into the day-to-day affairs of their clubs usually are failures .... with a few exceptions of owners that know the game.
I think that Wang's alterior motive right now is to put forth an ambitious Light House project. ... I hope he succeeds .. because it will help the Islanders ... but ... why is it taking soooo long??? Maybe if he put together a more modest renovation of the NVMC with a few added modernized elements and event centers on the grounds would of gotten faster approval ... I can't believe the whole project has been held up because of the height of the light house building and the improvement of infrastructures like water supply and sewage ... What does all that have to do with the coliseum? Nothing ... it is his ambitious goal of having the Light House Project in his vision.
I just want a nice modernized NVMC and maybe like a Dave & Buster's type venue and what not there. Maybe he should scale down the project in order to get the center piece pushed through... that to me is the arena. Leave it open for future development .... he seems to be taking an ALL or NONE attitude.
That is why I put out the sarcastic .. and lampoon version of the Isles organization if it was owned by Trump...
Speaking of lampooning ... I loved your Revenge of the Nerds comparisson.
Steady, I would not get rid of Nolan, but that doesn't mean I can't question things I don't like or don't understand. And it doesn't mean that he can't become an even better coach. All of us can improve--and all of us are vulnerable to standing pat when we should chnage--or being too hasty to make changes when a little patience is in order.
I also recognize that he may truly believe the kids are his worst option on the PP. If so, he should say that and/or answer why they don't get a chance when nothing else has worked. From my perspective, they should get a chance because they really can't do much worse and it's good experience. When he says Tamby needs to work harder to get in position to get shots like those he had in the shoot-out, is it just possible that he could find himself in that position more if he played on the powerplay?
The coaches can tell the fans to go *&^* themselves, but I don't think that's the way to go. All I'm asking for is some explanation beyond, "We're putting the guys on the ice that gives us the best chance to win." I'd like to hear more than that. On the flip side, if Nolan believes in his heart that getting into player evaluations in the media is detrimental to the fabric of his team--he should say that too and place the responsibility on his shoulders for the results. But IMHO, that still doesn't absolve him from answering why Comrie gets 19:30 minutes of ice time while Bergie gets 10.
Not much to say about last night because I am not coming in here to rub salt in wounds. It has got to be frustrating for you guys. After all we are NY sports fans. Life doesn't get much frustrating after stating that.
I am just going to offer up some thoughts as an outsider looking in and you can tell me what you think or if I make any sense.
Mr. Nolan:
I think you guys have a great coach there. If the Isles make the playoffs the guy would have to at least get the nod for Coach of the year. That being said, if the Isles don't make it I don't think you can take much from the guy. He needs the pieces to make the team thrive. Its no surprise and I am not throwing stones it has been said here and all year. The Islanders are a team full of average players that play their a$$es and win games. He needs the talent, if he gets it in the coming years the team changes big time.
Mr. Wang:
Billionaire and a Genius. Has admitted he does not know jack about the sport. (see sumo wrestlers as D-men...lol). But, my hat goes off to this guy as well. He is not quitting and he is trying his hardest.
Mr. Snow as GM is where he went wrong for me. As well as telling Mr. Smith he had to answer to a committee. Is that committee still the final say so on hockey operations? He needs to get a real track record GM in their and had him the hockey club and sign the checks.
Attendance and all that is thrown around often between the two teams fans and it's pointless in my mind. NY fans spend and support when the team shows up. If not they watch on the TV it happens at the Garden too. The credit goes to the Islanders organization for trying though. With all the promos and stuff they do to get the fans to come back and start filling the seats.
As for moving the team. I never want to see it happen that would be a sad day for NY and the NHL. I do feel however that the reality is that before the Light House project is approved or whatever we are going to hear about the Islanders moving. Politics got to love it! But, I see the same Pittsburgh situation happening here. This all waits til the 11th hour to get done. The Isles aren't there yet. But, If Wang can't get this done to better the team, the Island and the organization what options does he have?
What Merrick said.
Didn't say fire, just said he needs to learn a thing or two about how to try new things, and not always make the robotic choice.
I agree Merrick.
When it comes to the kids though, I think he is handling correctly. Do not rush them and crush their spirit. Keep them hungry! Keep them motivated for more ice time. Force his hand !
Will be a VERY interesting off season. Do they try the same cat food salad again? Do they over pay for REAL talent? Do they go completely with a kid movement?
All I ask is for an entertaining team. This years team does not COMPARE to lasts years team in terms of excitement.
Other than Bergy and the kids line, they put me to sleep.
Mookie: Agree on almost all accounts....How about the fact the ISLES ~ RANGERS rivalry has become kind of boring. Thank God for Witt and Avery....Without them there is no SPICE !!! Where are the brawls? Where are verbal blasts in the paper? This rivalry needs a playoff series to spark it back up !
Long time reader, first time posting
The fans who question Ted Nolan’s coaching choices do not give him enough credit. If it weren’t for his motivational skills the Isles would have been out of the playoff race by the All-Star break along with Tampa and LA.
The days of the Islanders rushing their young talent to the NHL during the dark ages of the Milbury regime are thankfully over. It would do no good to place the recent call-ups on the PP, PK and give them first line minutes.
1. They need to earn the quality minutes
2. When they fail in a primarily role and are later demoted to the 4th line or Bridgeport it shatters their confidence and slows down development.
3. Sean Bergenheim; Nolan has brought him along slowly and he has now earned more minutes/responsibility and playing with confidence.
If the Isles had the next Crosby/Ovechkin currently playing on the 4th line; you would have noticed it in 8 minutes of ice time along with Nolan. Unfortunately that is not the case.
What really creases me.....The B's are in a tail spin and with a decent past week, we could of caught them. They are getting blown out nightly !
Pilon,
No question Nolan is a great motivator and this team might be worse off with out him (I think I stated that above).
That said, I think time on blogs like this are better spent pointing out flaws in the coaching strategies/decisions in hope that someone reads them and gets the message to Nolan.
So if someone like myself were to point out things Nolan could be doing wrong, that is not to say he isn't doing anything right. Ya dig?
Yes, I'm a fan of the Rangers, and of hockey in general.
No, I dont think Potvin s0cks, I think he was great. I just think Leetch was better... ;)
That said:
1. Nolan's moves were compared to those of a video game by one fan. If that's true -- then wouldn't even a video game started a team's franchise goalie in the biggest game of the season?? Nolan went on guts -- Dubliewicz was good, score could've been worse -- unfortunately, the Isles lost. But you know what? We wouldn't even be talking of the Isles and playoffs this late in the season if not for Ted Nolan. (As good as Tom Renney has been, I wish Nolan were the coach of my team!)
2. I think Wang needs to recognize that the results on ice are what trickles down from the top (Like Reagon-omics?) Why Neil Smith was sacked and HOW he was sacked is beyond comprehension. Neil Smith would love a chance to stick it to Dolan and Sather -- and what better way than as a successful and winning Islander GM??? Wang is rediculous. For all his good intentions (yeah, everyone wants to win the Cup every year), he's clueless, and maybe worse than Jim Dolan.
3. I do NOT want the Islanders to move anywhere, and I think the Coliseum is a cool rink with lots of charm. I'm sure most Rangers fans feel the same way. If they dont, that's just @ssinine to me. Even as a Ranger fan, I respect Islander tradition of those 4 cups, because that Islander dynasty is one of those once-in-a-lifetime things of perfection we all aspire to.
4. Keep your heads held high, Islander fans. Your team, talent issues, and injury issues aside work their butts off. I HATE when my Rangers have to play them. In addition to the four cups there were a lot of great moments: 1993 Playoffs, 2001 Playoffs... Turgeon, Lafontaine...
5. Kick the Philthy Flyers butts next game!!!
Lets go Rangers!
Mookie ... thanks for your constructive and 3rd party input. As always a classy and accurate post.
I think Nolan has to get a pass no matter what. I have to belief his judgement based on the fact at how far he's gotten this team. True enough they can't score to save their lives ... he found a way to eek out some victories ... admittedly a lot of that is because DP stood on his head at times too.
Wang ... well as I stated before ... I started losing my confidence in him to create a championship potential organization. The first salvo of that confidence came when he fired Smith, and La Fontaine took a hike.... it didn't sit well with me. However knowing he's a successful businessman I looked at that as an anomoly.
Lately his statements have me kind of on edge. The blind optomism is getting old. There comes a time when a realistic evaluation of one's self has to be inititated. Merrick laid it out pretty good on one of his previous posts.
Also ... a famous quote .... which I believe has been mentioned numerous times on here ... "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"
Snow: I'm debating with myself on whether the Isles should let Snow stick around long enough to even make the 1st round pick. As I've said before .. along with others ... personally I like Snow ... I'm just not sure he's ready for all this yet.
The players .... well ... we know already ... mediocrity.... other than DP there are no players on the current roster that I'd pick in the top 30 of all players. Heck ... I wouldn't pick any of them in the top 50. DP I think has played way to many games for the amount of shots and traffic he encounters game in and game out. I'm also starting to think that part of his down turn has not only to do with a minor nagging injury ... but his spirit being crushed by the mediocrity ... some of his great efforts were laid to waste by lack of scoring. So maybe he's trying to conserve himself more ... or is getting lulled into mediocrity by his surrounding teammates ... just a theory.
TRB,
Fair point. And see what does that tell you. When Nolan continues to make the robotic choice, it doesn't work. And when he goes out a whim, it doesn't work. If he just sat back and used his head every now and then I wouldn't have as much of a problem with him.
We will try to kick the junk out of the Flyers. But not for you. ;)
Isle in NJ,
I agree Nolan should stay. I just wish there was someone more up on his case.
True Ranger Blue ..... well put ... and pretty accurate assessment.... Obviously you can tell that you are a REAL HOCKEY fan.
I don't talk much about other teams .. because I do have less insight but I've seen enough of the Rangers this year and years past to be able to judge them. I'm not a fan of theirs obviously so I don't praise or criticize them much because I care more about what the Isles do, and less about what other teams do. I can only wish that the Isles do what they can to stay competitive with the other 29 teams.
I think the Rangers have a solid roster and mix of youth and veteran talent. I think Sather gave the Rangers and their fans all he could under the circumstances. The Rangers may be a AAA coach away from being a top contender for the cup ... but they still have the ability to surprise ... because anything can happen in a 4 game series ... and Ottawa has ceded the conference monster title to Montreal ... with Pittsburgh, and New Jersey knocking on the door. The Rangers are in the next catagory just below that with Ottawa, Boston and Philly ... and all of the above had some streaky moments .. so it's a real crap shoot .... This is one of the reasons I want the Isles to go full throttle and make it to the playoffs .... because even they have a shot with the way the conference has been sifting out this entire season. Unfotunately I think the Isles peaked at the wrong time ... and their peak didn't last long enough. DP is the key for the Isles.
Wow, Ranger and Islander fans peacefully co-existing on the blog! Who woulda thunk?
More importantly, Isles have one HUGE problem ... Wang loves his Snowy. Let's face facts, dumping Smith and hiring Snow was an over reaction on Wang's part. And now we're stuck w/ a GM who is 100% learning on the job. Sure, he tried like heck to get Isles "over the top" last year w/ the Smyth trade. It didn't really pan out (considering all that has happened) and I'm sure there wasn't an Islander fan alive who wasn't excited by the move (at the time). That being said, Snow is certainly not some hockey guru brainiac that is the "next coming" in GM speak. He was a mostly career back-up goaltender and while I can appreciate his knowledge for the game that certainly does not make him GM material.
Now, for better or worse, we are stuck w/ him. Wang is loyal to people he likes and I sense he really likes Snow. There is no way he'll fire him and find (what we all know is needed) a better "hockey man" to run things. So, we're now stuck in some kind of "hockey purgatory" where we won't be an elite team for a good number of years (top FA's won't play here, NVMC is a mess, no top flight goal scorers) but we won't be a bottom feeder either (Nolan motivates the "lower level" player, we have adequate but not great talent in our farm system and young kids, we have DP who occasionally "steals" wins).
So, what to do? The only way we get a Crosby or Ovechkin or Malkin or Kane is to be horrible (which is beyond our reach w/ the type of fighting, scrappy team we have) and the only way we can go to the next level (win a playoff series and eventually a Cup) is to have some "elite" players on this team (which we haven't drafted and can't seem to attract).
Hockey purgatory .... man, this blows.
Isle in NJ - I don't come for the nonsense and never have. This is the most I have posted here in quite some time. I figured with the Rangers and Islanders playing I could talk for a bit. Otherwise I stink the Islanders post up with Rag talk. lol
I am convinced that Snow was the dead wrong choice and agree with Isles Bri that the team is probably stuck with him. Which I think hurts. But, who do you replace him with? Nolan is a great coach especially for the Islanders team where they are now and the team they have. As the team gets better he will shine.
I got questions and I don't want to take too much time with old news but, how did you guys feel about Simon and MAB going for picks? Also getting Davison?
Another thing I see is that the Islanders have about 20M maybe more to spend this summer. Alot of RFA's and some UFA's.
Is throwing the league max at say Hossa a start for this team to build something bigger? Is it an option?
Getting rid of MAB was the best move in the history of hockey since we got Goring.
Getting rid of Simon had to be done from a pr stand point, but he needed to be replaced by a true goon.
Getting # 3 was the worst pick up since Gordie Lane. He is out of position, he cannot skate, he does not play with fire in his belly, and he does not throw the gloves.
**We got some good kids. Good, not great. I think Bergy will be a very good player that plays with an edge. Our defense when healthy is good. We need a QB on the PP and we will be fine.
Fire Snow, Hire a true hockey mind, send Wanger to a computer conference for the whole season, fire Howie Rose, hire me, pick up a couple of TRUE 1st line players, and let's get this bus going in the right direction.
Other than that, things are perfect. :) :) :)
p.s Very Classy Ranger fans on here today !!! Mookie you need to post more often.
Hi Guys,
AS to last night:
I think Dubie played a good game again. A breakaway and a guy standing alone 10-15 from the nest and another standing on top of the crease. Not Dubie's fault and certainly not Nolans for picking Dubie to play.
As to Nolan:
He is going as good a job as possible with the players he has. Comrie wants to be a 1st line center then he needs to be a whole lot more responsible with the puck. Sometimes he looks like he is in a world of his own.
As to Smith:
As I recall he wanted out first because he couldn't have complete autonomy. I may be incorrect on that.
As to Snow:
He has not done a bad job IMO. Salary cap is good to acquire a talent and we have some OK players. Again, a point we all forget is that these are highly paid professionals. They should have some pride. If the PP is not clicking they should be working on that themselves and give input to the coaching staff to get it better. PP is not difficult set up shoot and go fr rebounds by out numbering the opposition.
AS to Wang:
Of course he doesn't know much about hockey. He shouldn't. That;'s why you hire people that do. Saying Donald trump would have a rink already is silly. he is not able to get a restaurant built right now.
Now the biggest thing it's easy to guess at what is being doen or what should be done without all the knowledge. we really have no true idea what goes on behind closed doors.
thanks for leting me have a few more than two cents.
Back to 2 time zones away......
I am beginning to seriously question the trade deadline swap of Davison for MAB. I paid very close attention to Davison all evening. The guy is lost. Frequently out of position, hesitant to take a body, is NOT AFRAID of trying a blind pass. He didn't show me a damn thing.
At one point I was tempted to go down and rip his jersey off. At least MAB brought us SOME OFFENSE.
I can't find anything good to say about Davison.
YET.
And I am now convinced that Johnson sucks as well, cuz my brother likes him.
Bring Fata up.
What can be said about the Powerless Play that hasn't been said....at least we didn't give up any SHG's last night. CLOSE!!!!
but no damage.
Kid's please??
I only counted 2 shifts for the kid line in the 3rd period.
THAT JUST AIN'T RIGHT.
ESPECIALLY when the other 9 dwarves (except Bergie) are stinking up the ice.
But the pizza at Borrelli's was as expected. Nathan's -SOLID..
Deli's ---OUTSTANDING.
Ranger's? SUCK---but congrats----I am 0-2 over the last 12 months vs the Rangers.
Mookie,
Here is my take to your question:
1) Hated giving up on MAB.
2) Very happy Simon is gone, however we do need a real enforcer
3) Davison has not impressed so far, he's got till the end of the season because he's a UFA.
4) They would have to overpay big time to Hossa, crazy money and years. Id rather they make a play at Huselies or Ryder, maybe even Rolston.
I know this mindset was frowned on a few weeks ago ...but ...I think it's all time (and it seems like we're all almost there) to realize what this team is going to do - which is nothing soon.
That being said i'd like to bring up the fact that the Isles are 4 points ahead of Atlanta for the 3rd worst team in the league. Now, there are some other teams in the way, but picking 3rd (or maybe getting a miracle and winning the lottery and picking #1) would really help jump start the farm system. Not only would they pick high in the 1st round, but also in the 2nd. And since the draft is so stacked they could probably get great players in the 1st three rounds.
I'm sure some will not like this thought ...but what would be better for the long term?
AZS -- I agree. I am so tired of our organization being poor in talent. We'd have to almost run the table at this point to make the playoffs, so these are probably meaningless games. To me it is SO much more important to get those high picks in a deep draft. Of course I am not going to root against the team, nor do I think they should tank it intentionally (an absurd idea that no professional coach or athlete would ever entertain), BUT I won't be heartbroken if we finish up poorly and get the high draft position. It does depend on HOW it happens though. If DP plays well but our anemic offense continues to be anemic, I can live with that, however painful to watch. On the other hand, I don't want to see us lose because Ricky continues to play poorly. That would bode ill for his future and that of the whole franchise.
To reiterate, so I don't get flamed (or denounced by Islander516/631/505etc.): I am rooting for the Islanders every time they play, as I have always done. I am not rooting for them to lose, or to throw games. HOWEVER, if we lose, I can live with it because we desperately need to restock the organization with talent.
Can you believe I'm headed to the rink in an hour? These &^^%$#@ Tournaments!! Kids will be half a sleep.
I have a lot to say .... LOL!! Shocking eh? LOL!!!
I have 3 games to asst. coach today ... but I'll be back home for a lil bit .... to summarize before I go ... I fully understand AZS and KH's feelings .... I'm halfway there ... I'm more for the long term viability of the club than an illadvised 10th place or 14th place overall finish. I'll go more into that when I get home for a few hours later.
Nick, it's 216.
Let's put it this way....... that April 3 game at the NVMC against the Rangers will not be fun if you are an Islander fan. If things contiunue to go the way they are, it will basically be a Ranger home game.
I agree KH,
I'm certainly not "rooting" for them to lose either, but if they lose tonight I'm certainly not going to be nearly as upset as I would be otherwise. And your points about DP were right on and I agree 100% ...
Plus,
I just came to a realization to one of the many reasons rooting for these team can be rough on the fans ...
I mean we can't do anything right ...
This is a year where the Isles were picked to finish dead last by many people which would have braught us a 25% chance of winning the draft lottery and picking Stamkos (though I'm sure we would have drafted some obscure checking center from Nolan's old team who has a ton of "grit, character, and heart"). We can't even lose right ;-) ...ofcourse they'll finish too high to pick him ;-) ...but look at Chicago ...they finished 5th (the final spot in the lottery) and one and have a nice little player to show for it ...
Who knows ...was just thinking about it ...
Agreed on the points from KH and AZS - I want to see this team advance from its current state and not be mired in mediocrity. Getting Stamkos, Beach, or Wilson (had another assist last night for streaking BU - when this kid fills out he'll be something special), or even Drew Doughty, who projects as a stud defenseman, will go a long way toward re-establishing the bare talent pool of this franchise. I still think the talk on firing Snow is premature, because even a Ken Holland, Brian Burke, or Dean Lombardi would have difficulty to undo the damage done by our dear Milbury in TWO SEASONS...As impatient as we all are, it's tough to understand the long view, and that's what Snow appears to be taking. A little patience...
I'm on the same level as KH....I want this team to win, and I wouldn't be driving to Philly in an hour and a half to see them play if I didn't want them to win (Merrick - Section 212 Row 14 - I'll have my DP jersey and my Lighthouse hat). However, I also want this team to win the Cup and contend for it for many many years, and I realize the work and sacrifice a team must endure to become a contender. I would take a losing streak if it meant picking high in all rounds of this draft and acquiring players who could maybe help us hoist the Cup in a few seasons, because that's what I want. I don't just want the playoffs, I want to see this team win the Cup, and the cupboard is sadly bare on all levels.
As for tonight's game, I have a thought process on my feelings. One of my favorite Belgian beer bars in the world is in Philadelphia, about 6 blocks from the hotel where I'll be staying. If the Isles win, I'm going there to celebrate by drinking my face off. If they lose, I'm going there to drown my sorrows by drinking my face off. Seems like a good system.
Isles fans -- here's the problems as I see them as an outsider:
1. Free agents dont want to play ojn Long Island -- particularly TALENTED free agents.
2. Wang will not fire Snow any time soon. Snow must be grateful to Wang for his GM position -- Snow has to be a "yes" man in return. Someone like Neil Smith, who has the credentials of ending 54 years of futility on Broadway (if you can make there, you can make it ANYWHERE) would NEVER be a yes man to anyone. This is likely anethema to Wang's dogma.
3. Even though the talent level is low, by virtue of having such a great coach who has been making chicken salad out of chicken feathers this season, the Isles will finish too high to get one of the highest draft picks.
4. That said, there is a lot of young talent here: Esp. Tambellini. Fast, good hands, speed, and will get dirty in the corners. Comeau. Coltion. DP (of course, already an All-Star).
5. If Wang wont fire Snow, and if free agents wont show... hopefully Wang and his business/hockey associates will fortify the scouting department and build via the draft. Hopefully Snow doest trade away the future McCabes, Berards, Chara's, Redden's, Jokinen's, Luongo's, Connolly's etc....
Like Winston Churchill declaring that democracy is the worst form of government--except compared to all others, the best thing the Islanders have going for them is other franchises. You don't think Leafs, Habs, Bruins, Blackhawk, Caps, Thrashers, Rangers, etc. fans have not been pulling their hair out over the years--even if they have had better overall teams at times? So, to a lareg extent, especially in a cap era, there is hope.
Nick 216 Row 12--white fishsticks jersey (season debut).
Nick ... Merrick ... Enjoy the game guys .... That building can be tougher to watch a game in as a visiting fan than MSG.
This game is more important than any of the games vs. the Rangers ... and if / when they win ... everyone will be behind them pushing for the playoffs ... because if they don't make the playoffs .... every win is another step towards mediocrity ... the Isles current record is way above what they truely are on paper.
------------------------------------
I'm going to throw out a theory that was stuck in my head at the rink this AM ..... Free agents really had no problem signing with the Isles in the Wang era when the $$$$ was put out there. This past summer was the first that publicly I know of some big fish took less to play elsewhere.Why? Is it the Smith firing / Snow hiring thing? The building? All of the Above? or None of the Above? Not that we'd ever really know. Just something somebody asked me what I thought of earlier ... and frankly I can't answer it.
Good point goislesgo105 ... Devils are not only first in the division now .... they are first in the conference. That long climb from last place to first place. Brent Sutter also deserves some credit ... Yes ... he has Broduer ... but the Devils lost some key personnel last season .... and they don't have the most offensive talent in the NHL .. but they prove year after year that they are a great "team" builder.
Tonight's game for the Isles will pretty much determine the Isles fate ... they can't keep losing and splitting 3 point games and expect to make the playoffs. So tonight I'm rooting for an all out win in regulation.
Then they better go on a good streak .... or they might finish just shy of a playoff berth. Then drafting 14th ... will get them a good player ... b/c it's a can't miss draft ... but .... keep in mind ... everyone else drafting in the top 6 to 20 are getting a player of similar caliber. The top 5 draft picks ... especially #1 ... are cream of the crop blue chip can't miss prospects. I wish we had LA's and Tampa's picks .... ahhhhhh ... one could dream ... that would be a 1-2 punch.
Well ... back to the rink.
The Islanders mgmt aka bobbles need to make ONE key signing !!!
ONE !!!
No one in MLB wanted to play for the Yankees in the 80's b/c of Steinbrenner. No African Americans wanted to paly for the Red Sox b/c of the environment in Boston. No one at ALL wanted to come to Shea and play for the Mets in the 90's !
All it takes is one key guy....Mets got Piazza and other followed. Then they got Pedro and Delgado/Beltran followed. Think Shea is nice ????
All the Bobbles need to do is make one HUGE SIGNING....Once that happens others will follow. The player needs to be a stud, well liked, and have pull.
Can the bobbles pull it off ??????
Steady,
Looking at the current UFA list.......I don't see that guy out there.
Hossa? that's about it.
Agreed. Did not say that guy is there next year, but that is what we need! :)
To be honest, Hossa doesn't do it for me ! Very talented, but does not look like a leader!
Awesome ...my 1st imposter ...I have finally arrived!
There are so many people to thank ...
First, I have to thank my fellow posters ...you guys are fun to talk hockey with
Second, I have to thank my parents for pointing me in the direction of the NY Islanders ...my life is better because of that choice ...
Lastly, and most importantly ...I have to thank the Ranger fan whose using my name and his parents. Without his parents decision to get wasted and not wear a condom none of this would be possible ...thank you ...
thank you all ...
LOL AZS...The funny thing is his fellow ranger fans think he is a loser also! Hamilton Islanders.....Better chance of seeing Ron Duggay win a cup!
**Anyone see the Bruins vs. Caps game today ???? Caps are TOAST !!! They were up 1-0 with 6 mins. left and completely melted. Brashear pulled a Chris Simon move and got 6mins of penalties with 6 to go in the game. Then Potti got two minutes....5-3 and Chara came through. Then they got the game winner......Crushing loss for a team trying to climb back into it!
One thing I noticed though...Both teams played like it was for their lives....Fights right off the drop of the puck, cheap shots, tons of hitting, PP, etc. etc. etc.....It was playoff hockey....I HAVE NEVER teen this current Isles team play with the fire these two had today........We are so far behind these teams in physical toughness, that it is scary. Not to mention HEART !!! These teams bled today for a win!
Re free agents not wanting to come to the Island: That's why so many of us are working to help make the Lighthouse happen. I also agree with what Steady said... we already have Nolan, who players around the league already know is great to play for. We add one big FA stud (a real stud, not a Yashin) and others will follow.
OFF -TOPIC (Yankees):
I am not a Yankee fan, but if this story doesn't move you, you're not alive. It's from last October, but I didn't see it until today. One of the best pieces I've ever read in SI. Enjoy:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/10/03/joba1008/
Okay Boys and Girls.....
I have been nice to Steve Zipay all year....
That ended today..
I suspect he may, in fact, be the troll that infects both his board and this board....
I state my case on his blog underneath (at the end) "Ranger's sink isles, boston sails in", which is a deliberately inflammatory anti-Islander blog.
Catch my response before he deletes it.
Some people (trolls) simply cannot savor a win and move on.
505 -- Zippy the Pinhead is definitely a troll, and open about it -- most unapologetic homer of a sports "journalist" in town. I don't get "journalists" who don't realize it's embarrassing (from a professionalism standpoint) to write in the tone of a fan. And I don't know of any other sportswriter's blog in any of the NY papers that has that feel. Logan, the other Newsday sportswriter-bloggers, Adam Rubin of the Daily News -- all write FOR fans without writing AS fans. My solution to this problem is to never ever read Zippy. However, I will make and exception and look at what you posted.
oops, typo... "AN exception"
505 -- Good post, but Zippy doesn't care... in fact, I think he likes the antagonism of Islander fans. The people to complain to are the higher-ups at Newsday. Tell them you don't read him because he doesn't cover the team as a journalist but as a fanboy. I read and enjoy Lynn Zinser of the Times, Dellapina of course, and even Larry Brooks, who though harsh is, I think ultimately fair to the Isles and in any case interesting. Among the Ranger beat writers, only Z the P is a hack and a crashing bore.
Could the NYI's be more listless? Man, what a sad, weak team. Anyone throw a bodycheck? a fight?
I'm writing my swan song for the year.
Coming soon.
Exactly Right 105
It all starts at the top. We have NO 1st or 2nd Line players.
We have no enforcer.
Next year put the "C" on Witt.
Dump Guerin,Tank,Vas,Satan and get true TOP LINE PLAYERS.
Bergy and Hunter are the only offensive players that play with HEART. Park and Dilbert do also, but they are more role players. The kids are coming along.
FIRE SNOW.......SELL THE TEAM !!!!
p.s # 3 IS THE WORST !!! Anyone still want to argue? Horrible positioning, cannot skate, NO HEART, and can't fight! Nice pick up SNOW !!!!
scoring talent is not easy to come by. but, folks, hitting and fighting is heart. how vanilla soft is this team? and, this "hunter plays hard " stuff---i dont knock his effort, but, his checks hurt no one and hes average at best!
Tamby will NEVER amount to much either--another gutless puke.
golf season is here early. I love the commercials during the game that show Wit , Guerin and Comrie talking about tbeiung islanders and how "great it is". Do you think one of those guys likes it? Cmon, the fan base is tiny, the home ice is pathetic and frankly, no one cares except a few of us. Sell the darn team.
I can't argue with anything you said Steady ...but how about putting some of that blame on Nolan.
Now, I think Nolan is a master motivator and I'm glad he's the coach ...but why is it that Park and Hilbert saw so much time on the PP tonight? Comeau sets up the Isles only goal then the Isles draw a penalty ...that line should have been put right back out there for the PP - because they earned it ...but why do that when he can throw out 4th liners?
Plus, the kid line, which was the best out there IMO saw about 10 minutes tonight ...
Honestly, I can understand why some are frustrated with Wang - mainly for keeping MM around ...but how can anyone want him to sell the team? If it wasn't for him this team wouldn't even be here right now. I know people are angry, but lets not forget that fact. Lets not also forget that he's trying to build a new Colliseum - which will keep the team here forever ...
Steady,
One more thing ...when people talk bad about Nolan you've told them to name who they'd rather have - and you're right for doing so because there really isn't a better person out there ....but I'd like to throw the same question out to you about Wang ...who do you want to buy the team? Who do you think will actually come in and throw the kind of money around that Wang has? Who do you think would have worked for 7 years to try and build a new Colliseum?
Wang is an owner, not a hockey genius. Look, Nolan does noy have the guns. He cant make people score. He cant make a team tougher? I hear the argument that they are 'soft' and agree 100%. But, thats not Nolan..he cant have Witt and Guerin, two of his best players, playing enforcer. They need two ashams and a legit heavy. That, and three scorers. This is a long process guys. We get Smyth, people say "waste of picks' . We build for future, and people complain. The farm system sucks and needs more depth. Give it time. They are .500, not horrible. They can turn it around fast, a la NY Giants.
I rarely write anything on the blog and I love reading the commentary. However, I must concur with this "soft" play the Isles have exhibited: its horrible and inexcuseable. Am I going to miss Chris Simon? Man, thats sad. No guts. No heart. Can we ATLEAST have an enforcer?
I agree AZS...I do not understand his use of the lines. I just think he is the ONLY ONE I TRUST !!! I am not saying he is beyond criticism.
The fact is, he has won at every single level hockey has to offer. He has ZERO offensive talent to work with.
Wang is to blame for MM correct ??? Keeping that moron around has cost this team 6 to 8 years more of waiting. Then he lets Smith and Lafontaine walk away b/s he is trying to reinvent the wheel by having a board room of bobbleheads. Then he hires a puppet in Snow that has made moves as bad as MM. Three number ones for Smyth...I mean it is like a bad dream.
Because of the owner and men he picked, this team has:
No Youth. No Enforcer. No #1 line. No #2 line. No QB for the PP. No Pest. oh and a broadcaster that is a Rags fan and a beat writer that is a rags fan. :)
Who do I want to own the Team....ME, but I am not there yet !! Listen, I realize he is trying to build a stadium and all that stuff, but how can a man so smart be so dumb? All he has to do is higher a hockey Gurur and sit back in his luxury box. WHY can't he do that ???? WHY ?
I'm just so frustrated as we all are. We are great fans that deserve better.
I hate to say I told you so... but it was I who said the 6 game losing streak RUINED the Islanders season. If they would have lost at least 3 of those game Satan, Fedotenko, Berard, Comrie, JoeVa would all be gone and what we would have is draft picks and prospects (even if they were 2nd rounders) and cap space for next season.
I think it was 505 (not sure) who was putting down the fans on this board who wanted the team to tank for next season. I was one of those people and I have that desire because of games like tonights. There is not one player on this team that gets me excited when they take the ice and thats sad. What I would give for an Alexander Semin, or Milan Michalek, or even Ladislav Nagy for crying out loud!!! Just somebody who can skate fast and can make a guy miss!!!
I hope Okposo can be a guy like that next year, or Tambellini and Bergenheim get some 1st line ice time because this team has become unwatchable
Steady --
We have some youth now. Comeau, Campy, Tamby, Okposo, FMIV... there is some promising youth on the team/in BP.
We have a #2 line, it's just being treated like a #1 line by opponents and shut down because we don't have a real #1 line.
Also, before the injury bug struck some of our key guys, we were pretty good. We've beaten a lot of good teams this year. We won the first 5 against the Devils, for goodness sake, and 2-2 against Ott.
Finally, look how quickly Philly turned it around with offseason moves. I think all your pessimism really boils down to your view of Snow. If you had some faith in him, you'd feel a whole lot better about the future. On that, I think the jury's still out. I don't agree that we have enough info yet to call him a bobblehead. We'll know within another year, I would say.
And p.s., I really don't think the beat writer is a Rags fan. If he is, he's a true professional because he hides it completely.
I hate what Snow did at the deadline this year but you cant blame him for the Smyth trade.
When he made the trade the Isles were as hot as a firecracker, Ricky was playing out of his mind, Blake scored 40 goals last year, Kozlov was having a career year as well as Witt and Sillinger.
Then Ricky got hurt, then the entire defense got hurt and then Mike Dunham played the worst goalie I have ever seen
This team hasnt won a thing in forever and Garth went for it and gave up NOTHING. Sometimes you have to put yourself out there and take a chance and be willing to live with the consequences.
Agenda for next year: Trade Gervais and Comeau or Tambellini for a scorer and give Brian Campbell 6 mil a year to QB the PP.
One Word ~~ GARBAGE ~~
--------------------------------------
I guess the people on this board my feelings mostly reflect are Steady's and AZS's ... I'll get more into it tomorrow.
I just want you guys to know that Bridgeport doesn't have the cure. Other than Okposo ... there is no #1 line projected players.... the others are a 3rd line projection .... and this includes Rakshani and Figren.
So waiting for them to mature into star first or second line players is folly.
The Isles are moving backward now ... and are about where they were talent wise when they drafted DP. The difference.... we don't have any Connolys, Charas, JP Dumonts and Luongos to trade.
I'll let you guys fight over the bones of what I said ... I gotta hit the rack .... long day tomorrow with one less hour to sleep.
Should have had a fire sale. Again, Nolan supporters, answer me this: Why again did Bergenheim, Comeau, Tambellini, Coliton see less time than all other Isles forwards. How many more games do we have to lose for Nolan to try something new?
Those players were a combined +3 with 8 shots on goal.
Put a fork in it boys.
I am 46 years old and have been a hockey fan as long as I can remember. While over the years I have complained about my team's powerplay and sometimes joked about declining a penalty by the other team, like any fan--I looked at PP with anticpation and hope. Never can I recall a time when I didn't want my team to go on the PP.....until now.
How can you keep throwing the same crap out there on the PP is beyond me.
I've seen way too many of games like tonight this year--a lot of work, but no reward because there is no skill and special teams are a drag. But more important, what do I have to look forward to next year? Guerin at $4 million? Comrie at $4 million? That Comrie signing is going to put me over the edge!!! If nothin else, I wish the guy would win just one ^*^*%%^ing faceoff when we're on the PP--never mind another 5 for 13 night.
If I can find any bright spots--a sold out crowd for the Flyers can be every bit as quiet as the NVMC. Until the 3rd period, this was a very subdued crowd. Not many Islander fans were there--and those who were got a typical Philly reception, but I didn't see any violence. Unfortunately, my car has Islander plates, and someone keyed my hood for a four inch dent and scratch. I gues it's better than a smashed windshield.
Thank God there are only a few home games left. I'm ready for baseball season.
jislander,
"I think it was 505 (not sure) who was putting down the fans on this board who wanted the team to tank for next season. I was one of those people and I have that desire because of games like tonights."
Yeah it was me jislander.
And I stand by it.
Anyone who suggests that a team should "tank" a season is a gutless puke and has no reason to be in any way associated with the team, as a participant or a fan. "Tanking" a game or a season is a chickens way out of chickenschit situation of their own making.
But I guess you're comfortable with being chickenschit in sporting situations.
BULLY FOR YOU.
"I hate to say I told you so... but it was I who said the 6 game losing streak RUINED the Islanders season."
You told me (us) so......Well aren't you a friggen genius. If you had a pair you woulda/shoulda said that at the beginning of the season like all the other Einsteins and simply parked your tent somewhere else. Cuz just about EVERY TEAM in the league has had a 6 game losing streak Maven, the difference with the Isles has been a lack of depth at virtually every position going into the season, coupled with injuries to the D corps that could not be overcome. Oh, yeah and a lack of offense REALLY ruined the season. One 6 game losing streak didn't mean nuthin compared to all the other holes in this team.
So what's your fearless forecast for next year genius?
Oh and btw, I'd laugh my arse off if you got your drawers scorched if the Isles came back and still made the playoffs.
Why do you bother following a team that gives you self satisfaction when they fail? Is your ego that shallow?
jislander,
"I think it was 505 (not sure) who was putting down the fans on this board who wanted the team to tank for next season. I was one of those people and I have that desire because of games like tonights."
Yeah it was me jislander.
And I stand by it.
Anyone who suggests that a team should "tank" a season is a gutless puke and has no reason to be in any way associated with the team, as a participant or a fan. "Tanking" a game or a season is a chickens way out of chickenschit situation of their own making.
But I guess you're comfortable with being chickenschit in sporting situations.
BULLY FOR YOU.
"I hate to say I told you so... but it was I who said the 6 game losing streak RUINED the Islanders season."
You told me (us) so......Well aren't you a friggen genius. If you had a pair you woulda/shoulda said that at the beginning of the season like all the other Einsteins and simply parked your tent somewhere else. Cuz just about EVERY TEAM in the league has had a 6 game losing streak Maven, the difference with the Isles has been a lack of depth at virtually every position going into the season, coupled with injuries to the D corps that could not be overcome. Oh, yeah and a lack of offense REALLY ruined the season. One 6 game losing streak didn't mean nuthin compared to all the other holes in this team.
So what's your fearless forecast for next year genius?
Oh and btw, I'd laugh my arse off if you got your drawers scorched if the Isles came back and still made the playoffs.
Why do you bother following a team that gives you self satisfaction when they fail? Is your ego that shallow?
KH ~ The kids you named do not compare to the kids on other teams. They look good to us b/c we compare them to the other wasted youth on our team.
Outside of Bergenheim.....We got avg. youth! Campolli maybe.
As for Okposo....Guys come on....We build him up.....HE is no savior. He has a lot more grooming to do before he can even make the team.
FIRE SNOW !!! WANGER GIVE UP YOUR IDEAS !!! (how is that? better then sell the team ?) :)
*** Jisles, I have to side with 505...You simply cannot root for your team to lose...The right way o have done it would have been for SNOW to ship guys off at the deadline. Not root for a team to lose! I wish the Cardinals in 06 tanked it when all their pitchers were hurt and they were booed off the field....Then they squeak into the playoffs witha around a .500 record....The rest is history. Ask the Mets and Detroit!!!! ***
***As for how quick Philly turned it around....Well even last year they were TOUGH .... They had kids with guts and size...They had a plan....EVERYONE in hockey said with a few signings, this team could be good....They went out and got THREE pure goal scorers.......We have no plan...We have a moron running a board room....There is no Brieire, Prospal, or Richards out there in the FA market !!! ***
I just found out that my nephew's team is playing Bill Guerin's and Mike Sillinger's Sons team the Long Island Gulls in a tournament for the Championship this afternoon.... Great!!! I'm at work ... my chance to harrass them (if they go to their boys game) is out the window.
Don't feel bad 19 Isles,
If there's a sheet of ice around than most likely Guerin would have been invisible anyways ...
Plus, the only problem with Okposo is that he's a winger. He'll need someone to get him the puck. And the only center we have on the team is Comrie - and there's no garauntee that Okposo will make the team next year - which he better - or that Nolan will pair them up.
That's why it's very important for the Isles to draft a center. I realize that getting in the bottom 5 to even have a chance to draft Stamkos is a pipe dream, but if the Isles could some how draft Beach it would be a huge plus.
From what I've read he might have an attitude, but could translate that to some nasty play on the ice - which would make Steady happy ;-) ...and he can score and pass - which would help Okposo's play and could be the begining of a real top line ...
When it comes to Snow I was angry that he didn't deal away any of the names mentioned ...but the thing I'm going to really judge him on is this years draft. Last year he didn't have his #1 because he dealt it away, and the guys he picked up in the later rounds are having success - granted in lesser leagues (Gregoire, Kessel) ....but I'm curious if he'll draft the center we need or go with "D" - which is also a little thin as far as prospects go ....only time will tell ...but I had a nightmare that the Isles were picking #1 and he didnt draft Stamkos ....scary ....
Steady, I think you confused me with jislander. I never want my team to tank anything. Correction on that point.
Before the home and home against the rangers I wrote a very upbeat post that the islanders would make the team. I was hoping for at least 4 pts out of possible 6. we only got two. The islanders have about half a heartbeat left. I am smart enough to understand the situation and it is bleak but it is not over. We all know one good streak can get you right back in it. The islanders have shown us this year that they can get hot and put a winning streak together. They are capable. just look at the phillies mets last year. Philly put together a hot streak to end the season and the mets went cold. So Islanders get on a streak put pressure on the teams above them and see what happens. Play it out hard till the end. We will worry about the roster moves in the offseason when that time occurs. Lets go Islanders.
Sorry ...I was talking about the gent 505 was arguing with...my apologies!
Steady,
Arguing?
There is NO argument.
But on a side note, I heard the French Army was looking for some generals.
The others heard that Mccain was gonna get the GOP nod and already "tanked" their jobs.
505,
Totally my bad about the "6 game losing streak" I meant 6 game winning streak, the losing streak was 7 games. I guess that clears up my comment which would make more sense.
As for the "tanking it" comment, its not that I want to see the team quit or lose on purpose but I cant stand mediocrity anymore. I am 25 years old, I fell in love with the Islanders in 93 when David Volek scored to beat Pittsburgh. Since then its been 15 years of NOTHING. The only bright spot was Bates shootout goal on Cujo against Toronto and they lost that series too.
This team is unwatchable. There is no joy in watching this team. Even if they made the playoffs there is no joy in watching this team. There isnt one player who is fun to watch on this team. This team is depressing to watch for a true hockey fan.
As for the other ignorant comments, you sound like a dumb red neck.
even if Okposo is here next year he will only get 6 minutes a night and if he show offensive ability then 4
lol, so true ...
Those hoping that Okposo is a savior ...
He's projected as a "solid" 2nd line winger with 1st line "potential" and possible trips to the All-Star game .. potential ... being the key word.
We shouldn't pressure him and build him up to be something he isn't. He might be a John Tonelli type player ... which is a great start to build from.
I think Neil Smith drafted Okposo, but that's neither here nor there ...
I have to agree that the 7 game win streak - in hindsight - was rough. That win streak prompted Snow to not deal away a lot of the pending UFA's ...
All that being said I think it's too early to kill Snow. I don't think any of the players traded for Smyth will turn into anything and he took a shot. It didn't work out, but again, in hindsight it wasn't THAT crazy.
I think it's very hard to take over and then turn around a franchise that MM took several years to run into the ground. Snow has a lot of cap space, a lot of expiring contracts, and probably a high draft pick. Lets atleast be fair. I'm more angry at Snow for not selling at the deadline, but it might be too soon to call for his head ...I don't think any other GM could come to the Isles right now and make them a contender next year so lets just see what he does next offseason with free agency and more importantly - the draft.
Free agency is going to be tough, because like it or not the Island - as of right now - isn't a "destination" for hockey players. Could that change? Ofcourse ...anyone watch the Pitt/Wash game today? Look at all of the great young drafted talent (although I'm sure Wash fans want to kill Backstrom!) ...it was fun ...the Isles have Okposo who may not be a Hall of Famer, but he's atleast got us excited right? If Snow gets a high pick, lets see who he takes and what the Isles do with him and the other players they draft ...
1) Draft well
2) Develop that young talent and let them play
3) Other players will see that the Isles are on the rise (may take 2-3 years of good drafting) and want to sign here ...
4) Get a new arena (most important)
Some of you are probably thinking "oh great, 2-3 years of high draft picks!" ...but it takes time to undue what MM did ...and 2-3 years of smart drafting can turn a franchise around for years. So instead of trying to fight to get in we could be fighting for the cup each year ...and isn't that why we're all fans of the Isles?
Let's try to stop the fighting ...we all have different plans for how the Isles should get better, but we all want them to ...and we all want the same things ...lets try to debate like adults ...
"Nothing" Robert Nilsson scored his 9th goal today, has 33 points, is a PLUS 6, and has been playing well.
Ok, but who's fault is it that he's gone? I blame Nolan more than Snow. Nolan has a "type" of player that he likes ...he never even gave Nilsson a chance ...
and he's still doing it now ...
The Kid Line see no ice time at all despite showing they've earned it. There are players in the minors that may never be more than 2nd liners - but we've got a bunch of 4th liners on our PP ...now I realize that Snow as well as Nolan but both need to be blamed here.
Why is it that Walter is in the minors? Why does Park find all of the PP time when that kid rots in the minors and the Kid Line rots on the bench ...
I guess Nolan wants that high draft pick as much as some of us do ...
goisleso
The French ARMY???
What the hell did they ever do for us?
Other then create a quagmire in Vietnam that we blundered into, thanks to the heretofore revered Camelot Kenndy administration.
If you are referring to the notorious Lafayette, one expatriated
emigre does not an army make. The French NAVY made a TOKEN appearance at Yorktown.....just in time to lap up the honors of the hard won battle by our own Southern militia.
As far as next year and CENTER ICE MEN....
Time for Snolan to get creative.
Sillinger is DONE....if anyone thinks he is returning from a hip microfracture at his age, they (and Sillinger) are delusional.
Comeau goes to the Trottier/Sillinger Center Icemen camp and learns how to take a faceoff 80% of the time. He's got the rest of the tools.
That's gives us a 1st line center to complement any combination of Comrie/Vas/Colliton/Neilsen and Hilbert for the other 3 centers spots.
In my mind VASICEK GOES.
Time for a youth movement. I like Colliton, I am not sold on Neilsen.
As far as wingers.....GOT TO SPEND MONEY/DEFENSE THIS SUMMER---. UFA OR RFA. PLUS DRAFT.
We're gonna have to give up a coupla young D-men (any combination of campoli, Gervais, Meyer, to get some kind of stud winger, whether it be for an RFA or a higher draft pick.
Maybe some sucker will take Johnson and/or the guy wearing my number (I can't even say his name anymore).
Okposo comes to the big show next year (and the last 8 or 9 games this year).
THE OLD FARTS AIN'T CUTTING IT.
Bye Bye Satan and Tank.
Let'em go, who cares if we get nothing in return....We didn't get anything out of them this year.
Next year's 1st line? KO/Comeau/ufa-rfa.
2nd line? Guerin/Comrie/Sim
3rd line? Tambs/Colliton/Hunter
4th line? Park/Hilbert/Brennan
D is solid......a lineup that still has Witt/Campoli/Martinek/Sutton/Meyer/Fata would be golden.
Berard/Johnson/what's his number are all expendable.
Many of us are frustrated but loyal Isle fans. It's disappointing that the organization continues to make careless mistakes and this year deliver a very poor product for us to watch. From Mad Mike to Snow Blow...er our GM's suck! Getting rid of Robert Nilsson will haunt us for many years to come. Just watch...we have seen it before. That guy has more talent than any player on our roster. Bring up Psycho Pascal Morency & Kip Brennan so we can have some entertainment!
Player's Profile
Picture Courtesy of www.bucshockey.com
Name: Kyle Okposo
Position: RW
Shoots: Right
Height: 6-0
Weight: 195 lbs
Birthdate: 1988-04-16
Eligible for Draft: 2006
Drafted:
Hometown: St. Paul, Minnesota
Acquired: 1st round (#7 overall), 2006
Playing In: NCAA
Kyle Okposo
Prospect Grade: 8.5 B (About Prospect Grades)
History
2004-05: Okposo played his final season with Shattuck St. Mary’s prep team and finished the season with 47 goals and 45 assists in 65 games, third in Shattuck scoring behind Pittsburgh Penguins 2005 second round draft pick Michael Gergen and 2006 draft eligible Jonathan Toews. In January Okposo committed to the University of Minnesota
Player Projection Rankings
Traditional Realistic Potential Rating (1-10)
(a player's realistic potential ability):
10 - Generational talent -- a player for the ages, one who can do things with a puck that no other player would even contemplate doing. Very, very few players will be deserving of this rating, probably one per decade. Think Wayne Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Bobby Orr, maybe Sidney Crosby, but we'll see.
9 - Elite forward / defenseman / goaltender -- possesses the potential for greatness, a perennial All-Star throughout his career. Think Joe Sakic, Jeremy Roenick, Niklas Lidstrom, Rob Blake, Dominik Hasek, Martin Brodeur.
8 - First line forward / No. 2 defenseman / No. 1 goaltender -- players with definite skill that might be just a cut below elite status, but still possessing All-Star potential. Think Patrik Elias, Keith Tkachuk, Mattias Ohlund, Adam Foote, Sean Burke, Olaf Kolzig.
isle in nj22 hockey future has okposo rated as an 8.5 which means he is in between 8 and 9. now if he is a 9 he is considered an elite talent and if he ends up being an 8 he is a first line forward. you show me a link that says he has the potential of a second line forward i would really like to see that. my 2 previous posts show his potential ranking from hockey future.
Anybody watch the Pitts. Wash. game??? All i kept saying throught the whole game was WOW, HOly Sh@t, OOoooh Baby(JOhn Davidson style). Those two teams were so exciting to watch..the speed, the skill, the intensity those teams played with, i only wish the islanders had...And Ovechkin, is now my favorite player in the NHL....This kid is unbelievable, the intensity he brings to everygame is unmeasurable....The Islanders need a player of his caliber, forget Crosby, hes a whinny little BIOTCH....though he is also amazing, Ovechkin in my books is better all around...NOW, as far as the islanders are concerned, its an off day, so im not as pissed off, so here we go...First and foremost, I think we all need to take a deep breath and relax.. Our team is NOT very good, but we suprised everyone around the league once again, after being called to finish last in the league, 2 yrs in a row!!! There is a lot of work that needs to be done with this team to be a CONTENDER!!, WE need like i said before a caliber player like Ovechkin on this team, but is there anyone out there we really could pick up in the offseason, if so please inform me, but i dont see anyone out there!!! We have to build a TRUE first line, and in order to do that, we need to sign a C, LW, and RW..NOBODY on our team is first line material...Ive said a few times to put Comeau there, but id rather not..After we Build a first line, we work from there.. Second Line Comrie, Comeau Okposo. Third Line, Coliton Tamby Bergenhiem 4th line Vas, Hunter, Guerin...I think if we could have those 3 lines with our guys, and sign a real 1st line, we'd be a contender instantly...ANYONE AGREE OR DISAGREE, am i missing anyone??????Though the possibility of us actually signing a FULL 1ST LINE, is probably impossible, but its a start....Our Dfense is pretty solid, for a few exceptions...Johnson to start...he is absoutley horrible out there, he skates with his head down, hes horrible at playin the body, and hes a horrible skater....Davison, i liked him at first, but Dump him too.he hasnt shown any enforcer in him and his defensive skills arent that great....but maybe thats because i keep reading everybody says he STINKS...hahaha..And to finish, we have an ALLSTAR goalie who needs help infront of him, we cant keep expecting him to stand on his head everynight... SO LETS HAVE A SMART DRAFT, AND SOME CALIBER SIGNINGS OVER THE OFFSEASON, so we can contend for the CUP!!! LETS GO ISLANDERS!!!!
Having Sutton on the team will haunt us, also. Gets his a** handed to him by a 41 yr old Gary Roberts. Pathetic! No talent and horrible fighter.
AZS....The Snow trade was HORRENDOUS. Please do not try and blame Nolan for that. He is bringing these kids along EXACTLY as he should. He of all people knows how to work with kids. He just won a chamionship with them. NONE of them are complaining.
I know you have watched the games as the great fan you are....Do you see these kids in their own zone ??? Tamby is lost and soft (for now, give him time.) The others are iffy. As the year winds down you will see them gain more confidence and in return get more time.
What Merrick stated was true about Nilsson...He is good, and we gave him along with TWO other # 1's for a rental that would NEVER saty with us.
As for Ben Walter (which my good friend was roomates with in college) the Bruins NEVER called him up either and he lead the Providence B's in goals that year ( I believe it was goals, maybe pts.) **Might of been near the tops in the whole AHL **
Again....Not saying Nolan is perfect.....When it comes to the kids though, do not RUSH THEM !!!!
Just my opinion....You know I respect everything you post AZS.
p.s 10 million this year for Gomez....No thank you !
OK ... I left you guys off the hooks for the most part this weekend for short posts .... you knew this couldn't last ....
First ... I'm goind to respond to db ... db I wish the hell that those rankings you posted from Hockey Futures were accurate .... you have no idea ... You might not have seen a post I made about a month ago about prospect rankings. The Hockey Futures site doesn't update prospects that often .... go look at when that rating was made.... I believe it was just prior to the first game of the year.
Yes ... Okposo wassss an 8.5 (very high and nice projection) with a B ... meaning in all likely hood he will meet that expectation. However .... since then .... more talent ... and other prospects have improved lowering his projection.
I learned this from a rating scout from Montreal. He works for a company that supplies prospect data ... drafted and undrafted from Bantam level to the NHL level.
He explained to me how it works ... basically ... since the high # is 10 ... that means that you can't get any higher. So if Player A was drafted in 2006 as a 10 ... can't miss blue chip super start (kinda like Stamkos would be rated this draft) ... but Player B comes along in 2008 ... and is also a 10 .... but is even a lot better than Player A ... they don't give Player B a 10+ or higher grade ... they lower other player's ratings in the prospect pool.
So even if Okposo is as good or better than when his rating was set .... there might be 20 other players that surpassed him ... and thusly they might be an 8.5, knocking Okposo to a 7.5 or 8.0. So player ratings are fluid. They are rated 4 times a year ... Season Start ... Holidays .... March .... and after playoffs or Summer mini-camp ... it depends on who is doing the ratings ... they are compiled by central scouting, the NHL, agent scouts, team scouts, college and junior scouts etc. I think you get the drift.
Julien ... the guy from Montreal .... kinda chuckled when we were discussing the World Junion Championship and I said how Okposo was a high rated player by Hockey Futures ... he said ... you better check when that was published ... and I did ... he said ... Okposo was down graded because of the flood of new Junior aged talent that surpasses his skill ... which is probably why Snow wanted Okposo out of Minnesota ... and also shows you how strong this draft is.
I don't mean to belittled your post .... you did your homework ... but unfortunately it is outdated. Since the holiday ratings ... Okposo has sunk a bit in talent.
And as Steady mentioned earlier ... it doesn't matter how good our kids are if other team's kids are better than ours ... ours just look good because we compare them to the other slobs we have in the system.
I hope that answers your question. I also have another source that said the same thing about Okposo. BTW .. Tambellini was rated higher than he is now after he was first drafted too.
isle in nj
wrong again those rankings will not change because better players are in this years draft. that makes no sense. a first line player is a first line player end of story . like i said show me a link to the site where he is projected to be a second line forward. thats like saying sakic gets downgraded because lemieux is in the draft. i agree stamkos is probably a 9 or 9.5 but you show me any report from any site showing him projected to be a second line forward.
toews 9.0 b
kane 8.5 c
mueller 8.5 b
backstrom 8.5 b
okposo 8.5 b
do these players also get downgraded because there is a deep draft coming up. i will provide you with my link. now show me yours.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_top_50_prospects/
http://trhl.hockey.sportsline.com/news/10577274
also another article dated january 17th
any of you watch the Ranger game? That is called great goaltending... I know you don't see much of it over in NVMC.
Unbelieveable game
goislesgo
"505, What do you have against the French??? Don't you like French wine? french bread? french toast? French kissing?????"
Goaltenders named Huet,
Brides with braided armpits, trimmed moustaches and sequins on their sneakers.....
Any political leader within the last 40 years...
Ya can't barbeque snails...
French waiters only pay attention to you if you speak in German...
They turn on their friends and surrender to their enemies..
If we ever returned the Statue of Liberty to 'em, we'd have to figure out a way to raise the other arm.
Rent a French war movie on DVD and it's over before the butter is melted on the popcorn.
Their tanks have backup lights.
Shall I go on?
Sorry DB, I think 19 Isles is as clear as can be.
The questions I have about the rankings are as follows: Does anyone ever go back and evaluate the success of the scouting reports after--let's say five years? How often do guys get down-graded in the pool vis-à-vis other players, but then turn out to match their original projections or even exceed their rankings?
I'm also with 19 on the following: After two years of the Snolan regime, we are going backwards. Even considering the obliteration of our starting defense, we look like an expansion team without the number one picks. I was willing to suspend belief for a while and put my faith in the lineup Snow put together, but with luxury of 20-20 hindsight, how can you not say this club is a HUGE disappointment.
Guerin has one more year at $4 million plus, Comrie has another year at $4 million. Both, despite leading the team in scoring, have been largely unwatchable this season and seem to have a horrible Plus/Minus, not to mention all the penalties each of them take.
Does anyone really want Fedetenko ($2.9 million) and Satan ($4 million?) back at their price tags? Hilbert? Vasicek? Berard? For all the talk about Radek Martinek (and his game has stepped up a lot since I criticized after his return from the injury), he will be one year older and how many more injuries can his body handle?
Anyone who thinks this season is salvageable is admirably hopeful, but delusional. We've got four teams to leapfrog and three to stay equal with only12 games to play. That's almost impossible given our season-long offensive ineptitude and the injuries on defense. Thus, those who are young and probably coming back (Bergie, Tambs, Comeau) should start getting significantly more ice time--including special teams. For example, get Tamby/Comeau on the PP and Bergie on the PK --where he did a decent job in 2005-06. I really don't give a crap if they have less success (if possible) than the current crew; just give them the ice time and experience. If they're too fragile to handle difficulties with the assignments, instead of soaking up the experience, then send their candy-arses packing.
Three more weeks to Opening Day for the Yankees and it can't come soon enough. It's been a long time since I felt this way about the team--but that's just the way it is.
Spot on Merrick.....am ALMOST (not singing...YET!!!--but I am working on the lyrics) looking forward to watching the Yanks KIDS.....Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy et al.
db ~ I'm not going debate you about a numerical rating on Okposo ... If you want to blindly follow a website compiled for "consumer" fan use to gauge how players compare .... go for it ... it doesn't change the fact that Okposo was having a sub-par sophmore season that forced Snow to yank him from Minnesota because he wasn't developing.
And YES ... players rankings do change... it even says it on the site ... a "B" rated player can lose 90% of their rating ... Not to mention when other players enter the prospect pool ... the other prospects in the pools rankings float or sink based on other prospects skill rating.....
There is no consumer website that has the "scouts" ratings .... the guy Julien works for a company that "Charge$" for player data .. they aren't going to put all their ratings out there for anyone to pull. If they have an accessable data base I'm sure that it is a paysite for members only. That data is equity ... so why should they put it out there.
Now let me put it in terms everyone understands.
If I had $85 ... and $100 was the highest you can have ... then I'm sitting pretty good compared to the max .... yet if someone else enters the pool at $20 bucks better than me .... how many bucks do I have now? Well .. that depends on how many bucks that guy with the $20 bucks more than me has. Get it? ... I lost equity... Just like the stock market player rankings go up and down ... and since they established a 10.0 rating ceiling .. it means when more talent enters the "prospect pool" ... drafted or undrafted ..... it affects the rating of players already in the pool. Supply and demand also affects the ratings.
Lets assume that Crosby was a 10 …. Does that mean that the Malkin is a 9.0? Or Overcheckin a 9.5? So with that mindset Okposo at a 8.5 would be closer to Malkin, than Malkin is to Crosby … and we know that is just not the case. Okposo was drafted a year after Crosby … so you can’t use an excuse that Okposo is younger … because at Okposo’s age Crosby was on his way to winning the league MVP. See the flawed logic now? So with more talent emerging … Kane, Jordan Staal, Phil Kessel, Erik Johnson, Philly’s Van Riemsdyk & Chicago’s Jonathan Toews just off the top of my head are all much better than Okposo .. and they are all rated 8.5 – 9.0 …. Okposo fell back a bit …. It happens in the Central Scouting ratings for draftees too.
That said … it doesn’t mean that Okposo will not be able to get back up there. He has the raw skills to do it…. it’s just up to the Isles organization to hone that raw talent to where it should be. Right now …. he’s struggling. I hope we get a look at him in the NHL the last 2 weeks of the season.
If you want to take Hockey Futures as gospel ... go ahead... I don't care. I have a hockey site called Hockey Buzz that is 100% accurate too.
YES ... OKPOSO is a top tier talent ... however he's more of a low-level top tier now based on his current status. Even his point per game pace dropped off in the AHL … Tamby was doing more than that, and Nilsson was last season. …. And look where they are at in the NHL now. I am just trying to tell everyone not to put Okposo up too high … there are plenty of other top tier prospects older and younger then him that are much better.
Best use Hockey Futures as a snap shot of where a player was at time of rating. No disrespect. Ask Merrick who attends the Bridgeport games what he thinks of Okposo
Oh .... and db ... you are getting your info from a writer who tags his column with this ..... Michael Hurcomb .... Fantasy Writer .... Fantasy??? That says a lot.
I cant agree with you more Goislesgo, I'm tired of mediocrity. I also went to Paris in college and my favorite Islander as a kid was Pierre Turgeon so the french are alright in my book, lol.
I dont think its fair to roast Snow. Give him time. Its not that organization has gone backwards its just that it hasnt gone anywhere! Lol. It looks like the same team is coming back next year.
What concerns me about KO is that he will have nobody to play with when he comes up. Comrie sucks.
I like Blake Comeau but 1st line center? Is that how low our expectations have fallen?
Okposo according to Hockey Futures was ranked 12th among drafted prospects IN SEPT ... before this season started ... and that is my whole point ... HE DROPPED!!!! And with new prospects being drafted this season they are already projected and rated players that are part of the prospect pool ... drafted and undrafted.
Last words before hitting the rack ....
It seems a nice long post I made didn't make it ... under the scrutiny of Newsday .. Oh well
-----------------------------------------
Basically ... I was stating .... there is no way a self respecting team can Tank It, Throw in the Towel etc. What does that say about the organization? They had a shot back then ... Hind Site is 20/20 ... No Red Blooded Hockey Player is going to tank a season to allow the team to draft a better play so that he can be replaced.... what kind of pride do you think the coaching staff and players would have if they tanked it? No thanks ... some teams do that ... not as much anymore since the Eric Lindros lottery took effect.
Barry the Mullet Melrose once told me and a few colleagues (we were all half sloshed at an ESPN party) that he knows that Quebec tanked their seasons way back when to get Lindros, Nolan and even Sakic ... he also said Boston pulled one to get Thorton ... he stated how when they played a game against the Islanders towards the end of the season when both teams were bad ... that the Isles crushed them ... and never should have.... and that other teams just buried them. Sure ... they got their picks .... but lost their dignity. He cited some other flagrant teams tanking too ... for blue chips ... so it wasn't just those two expamples.
---------------------------------------------
Snow and Wang ..... Snow .. like the guy .... smart energetic and eager .... he's just a GM green horn. When was the last time the Isles hired an experienced GM? Oh, 1972 ... that is right .... and what happened? He built a dynasty ... during a turmoltuous expansion era and competing with another pro league.... that is rarely mentioned.
Maloney was briefly an assistant to Torrey and drafted Bertuzzi based on Torrey flagging him the season before. Nice work Maloney .... Then in came mad Mike ... his experience briefly as Asst. GM in Boston .... then in comes Snowy ... also briefly an assitant ... and assistant to DiPietro as a backup goaltender ... Wang Wang Wangggggggggg .... WTH were ya thinking man???!!
I think Steady puts it the best ... and most brutally honest about Snow .... I think we all kinda gave Snow a pass because we are comparing him to the debacle that MM created ... well ... Snow did his own trashing last year in the Smyth trade. I never liked it.
Nilsson will be a top center ... the year before he was drafted he was breaking Markus Naslund's and Peter Forsberg's records in Sweden. He fell off that pace in the Isles organization ... but was just coming back last year at better than a point per game pace for Bridgeport when he was traded to Edmonton. Now there is talk that he will be a late blooming star player.
O'Marra .... another player in the Smyth deal .... he was banged up when the Isles traded him ... but before that had a very good year of Junior ... and was a WJC gold medal winner with Canada just before his injury ... Now he's making a move up ... and is projected to be a bigger version of Mike Pecca ... he's tabbed as a 3rd line or 2nd line two way center....
... and the draft pick that Edmonton got from the Isles? Who knows what Snow would of done with that 1st rounder? However the Rangers got the steal of the draft picking after that pick..... so maybe Snow would of had a shot at him? Doubt it ... that means they'd of known about him when Smyth was acquired ... and no way they would of let all that go for Smyth.
The bottom line .... Smyth was not going to be to the Isles of 2007 what Butch Goring was to the Isles of 1980 .... the Isles weren't ready for that kind of catylyst player to vault them as a top contender for the cup. Anyone thinking that is fooling themself. Smyth was a Nolan type player .... so you guys fill in the blanks.
------------------------
Gonna leave it at that before my hands fall off .... and we don't want that to happen right? Then you guys will miss these long arse posts.
--------------------------
PS- I look forward to my Yanks this spring ... some good young pitchers will get a good look.
.... sad place .... you're right .... and the thing about the Rangers is ... they may be close to the cap .. but they can parlay some of that youth for a real solid player in his prime (RFA's included) ... I'm surprised they didn't try that yet. They can afford it talent wise ... they'll have to wiggle through the cap ... and I'm sure it will be raised this summer.
Let's see if Sather scores one for the Rangers ... or snatches defeat from the jaws of victory again.
Do you guys think Rangers will envoke Jagr's option year? He's not going to meet the numbers for automatic extension.
He may just of had a bad season this year ... or lost a step. Still a force though. I say Rangers should keep him.
Hey everyone - had an interesting weekend at Philly and I'm about ready to unload an entry to put our dear friend 19 Isles to shame...however, it's getting late, so I'll get to it first thing in the morning.
I will say this...I have much stronger opinions on the team, and the Wachovia Center in Philly is everything the Coliseum SHOULD be, even if you ignore the overall Lighthouse Project. I'll admit I've been to about 7 NHL arenas, so it's not a huge basis of comparison, but that building is hands-down my favorite so far.
More tomorrow, I hope everyone has a good night.
still waiting for 1 site (only 1) that has okposos potential as a second line winger
isles in nj 22
isles nj 22 you must get false information because there are no 10 rating players on the top 50 list. and going off each years draft the top pick in each draft kane and johnson are 8.5 and 9. as far as stamkos being a 10 i doubt it he will probably be a 9 maybe 9.5. so your montreal scout who says the best player in each draft gets a 10 like you stated in your last post couldnt be more wrong. even if okposo drops from 8.5 to an 8 his potential is still a first line forward. i agree coming into the league next year he will be a second line forward but i still want you to show me one site that says his potential is a second line forward for his career. that cbssportsline story i sent earlier from jan 17th puts him right below crosby as far as prospect potential. and since crosby was a 10 i believe an 8.5 is more than fair puts him right in the same group as kane, mueller, backstrom, and slightly below toews.
that montreal scout you were chatting with was probably negative on the islanders cuz they beat him so much during the 80s. still waiting for the link.................
and merrick tell me if you think okposo's production has dropped slightly because nielsen tambellini and to a lesser degree collinton all were called up.
nj isles 22 by the way you referenced the article saying its just fantasy. well fantasy hockey is all about points. nothing else. i dont see why that would not be agood judge of a player. if he gets 85 points he will be a great fantasy player and a first line player. listen i dont care about anything else but when you say he does not have the potential to be a first line forward that is a joke. as far as minnesota he was having an off your because their team was not as good and he was moved to center. i never said this kid is the next crosby all im saying is he can be as good as mueller kane backstrom and maybe toews. by the way nilsson was not an 8.5 b he was an 8.0 c.
OK db ... this is getting ridicuous ... so to recap ... and respond with parts of our previous posts.
I just got off the phone with Julien .. he said ... and I quote ... no scouting report is going to be made available to the public unless they register and download proprietary software that enables them to see up to date clips and scout notes... that is #1 ... he did say you can register for a nominal fee with Hockey Prospects ... try that ... oh .. he has nothing against the Islanders from the 80s .. that is ridiculous he said.
Now back to our lil debate.
My original post that started this whole thing regarding Okposo ~ "He's projected as a "solid" 2nd line winger with 1st line "potential" and possible trips to the All-Star game .. potential ... being the key word."
Then you came back with this:
db said ~ "even if okposo drops from 8.5 to an 8 his potential is still a first line forward"
Isn't that what I said? I even emphasized "keyword" being "potential"
Then you came back with this:
db said ~ "isles nj 22 you must get false information because there are no 10 rating players on the top 50 list."
Now once again ... you weren't paying attention. This is what I said:
I said ~ "Lets assume that Crosby was a 10 …. Does that mean that the Malkin is a 9.0? Or Overcheckin a 9.5? So with that mindset Okposo at a 8.5 would be closer to Malkin, than Malkin is to Crosby..."
Notice I said "assume" that Crosby was a 10 ... I never said he was a 10 ... I raised the bar ... to increase the point rating differential to even help justify Okposo's 8.5.
Then I included other all-star "now" capable players ... just to show how Okposo's 8.5 might be too high.
Then you continued with this:
db said ~ "that cbssportsline story i sent earlier from jan 17th puts him right below crosby as far as prospect potential."
Are you for real? You read that article and believe that this one guy is the authority on hockey talent? ... right below Crosby?? As much as I think Crosby is a gutless puke ... there is NOOOO way that Okposo is "right below Crosby as far as prospect potential" ... because if he was ... he'd be in the NHL already.
Then I also said:
I said ~ "Just like the stock market player rankings go up and down ... and since they established a 10.0 rating ceiling .. it means when more talent enters the "prospect pool" ... drafted or undrafted ..... it affects the rating of players already in the pool."
Okposo's 8.5 rating that Hockey Futures is using is based on a scouting survey done after the mini-tournament for the Under 20 US Junior team in Lake Placid this past August (It also takes into account previous projections) ..... BUT!! Since then ... he had a sub-par College season .. YES ... I know they threw him at center ... scouts don't care. They rate performance and growth ... and if they feel he hasn't met the bench marks required of his previous rating and amount of development time.. they drop him ...
This is also affected by recent draftees (2007) and the current crop of up and coming prospects in 2008 and even 2009.
The name of the prospect scouting game is FUTURE PROSEPECTING ... they don't care if you are a USHL, Hockey East Collegiate, AHL, ECHL, OHL, WHL, QMJHL or Finnish Elite League player .... they rate the players compared to other players ....
Because assume you have 100 forward prospects right now (I said assume here ... not that there is ... so don't take it literal) ... and assume that they are sooo good ... that they are ahead of Okposo in skill right now. Now assume with the 30 teams ... you can say every team has no less than 3 players of that 100 ... Well .. you just filled your first line up.... so does that mean that Okposo is still 1st line prospect?
Now of course that isn't the real scenario ... I'm just trying to illustrate for you how players can get bumped down in their rating projection even if they improve against their own skill.
I'm done debating this .. only the future will decide Okposo's fate.
Finally we're heading in the right direction for draft day. We have to get ourselves into the Stamkos lottery for a chance at getting a franchise player. If we can't get him, a trade for a premimum forward to build the club around for the next decade is paramount. Teams like Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh and Washington all have multiple proven young stars already while we hang our hopes on journeymen and a few prospects. Not every team will be able to afford all these players and eventually we should be able to acquire a top flight player because of our cap room and draft picks. The hour glass has been turned and The Bobbleheads MUST make a dramatic move to get us back in the game. The fan base will rightfully dwindle if we don't get a blue chip prospect real, real soon.
I am not a Bridgeport export. I go to about 6 - 10 games a year, mostly with my kids, and we often try to sit close to the glass to experience the intensity of the game as opposed to "scouting" the up and down play of our prospects. Anyone who sits close to or on the glass knows that while the game is great when close to you--it's very difficult to see what guys are doinbg at the other end of the rink.
I've seen Okposo only four times and in addition to assessing the positives I see, I also like to use what I call the WTF Factor or the what was he doing/thinking/or smoking on that play. Also once known as the Kvasha Factor, I now like to call it the Comrie Factor.
From the limitted time I've seen, Okposo is very strong on the puck, has a decent shot, and seems to have hockey sense in that he doesn't seem to be out of position on defense. I have not seen that sixth sense where he always seem to be in the right place at the right time, nor have I seen creative playmaking that seems to make something out of nothing. Is that due to the talent (or lack thereof) around him? I don't know. On the Comrie Factor, he rates low (which is a good thing). I cannot recall one time where he made a play or decision and I thought that, "What could he possibly be thinking?"
I'll tell you the one player/thing I like in Bridgeport--and I really wish I could see his overall game in the NHL--it's Steve Reiger. Reiger is the kind of big guy that will camp in front of the net and take a brutal pounding to craete havoc for goalie. On that score, he has no fear and no one on the present Isles has that kind of toughness to take the beatings he does. I'd love to see what he could with some real defensemen taking shots from the point--althought to some extent, I think he helped Gervais and campoli when they were at the Bridge.
Nick, I await yuor post, but I agree about the Wachovia Center. I've only been to about ten arenas, but for being comparable in time to the Wild, Caps, and Bruins, that place is an abaoslute joy for fans from the great bars, food vendors, activities/displays on the concourses, and stellar sound system. If you take away some of the brutish Flyers fans, it's hard not to have a good time at a Flyers game.
When in doubt....Listen to the Canadians eh !!!! Very Good Post Miggsey !!! :)
Imagine if we had the THREE #1's from last year PLUS the low pick we will get this year.....You think we would of been able to parlay them into one of the TOP THREE guys.....NO DOUBT !!!
You have all read me post ad nauseum about Snow, Wanger and the needs of this team........You want the barn FILLED? You want some clout in getting a new arena ???????? All we need is that ONE special player......ONE !!!! Look at Pitt and the Caps......Syd the kid and Ovechkin have changed hockey in those cities.....They have gone from having to move to 5 year waiting list for tickets...........I never want our team to lose. I am from the B. Parcells school of thinking. Yo uare what you are.
With that said, it is up to our moronic leaders to get that guy....Not sure how....may take a miracle.....But that is all we need to get this thing going. Well that and a hockey guru upstairs !!!!!
**I am starting a fund raiser for all those interested. I am trying to raise enough money to send Wanger to Asia for the 09 Hockey season. Anyone want to help ??? **
Isles agree to terms with Finnish prospect Jesse Joensuu - check the team site
I think the Islanders have quite a few good young players that have shown what they can do this season. It takes time and patience to Grow-Your-Own. So if management is patient then we will see fundamental improvement in the team.
As we have all heard, the draft this year is supposed to be a good one. Meaning that you can pick up quality players even if you are not first to pick. Anyone know how many picks we have?
I think Snow is going to continue to sign veterans to short term contracts and build through the draft. The question is whether the fan-base will be patient.
Personally I get into it more when you get to see the team grow.
Kevin T.
Next game of interest will be next Friday when the Isles play in NJ. That will be there 74th game of the season, meaning there will be 8 games left and who will be called up to play with Princess Toe Drag... KO!!!
Well Princess Toe Drag gets first line mins so Okposo will probably play with Hilbert and Comeau for 4mins so he can really show case his skills. lol.
I have only seen one cup that the Edmonton Rangers won in 94. I spend my days on here b/c I take it in the man shorts all ngith and get sore. I am so jealous of the isles 4 cups that it is scary.
p.s i am the one on the rags board that wanted lunduqist fired when he was p[laying pooryly. i am a man lover
The Real Real Truth: You are 40 and still have acne.