How tough has it become for the Islanders to score? Well, Sean Bergenheim might have reached the height of frustration last night at Florida when he had a loose puck at his feet in the crease and fanned before kicking it in. The referees correctly ruled, “No goal,” a refrain that is becoming all too familiar to the Isles.
In retrospect, it’s amazing that Friday’s 3-0 loss to the Panthers was only the second time the Islanders have been shut out this season. One-third of the way through the season going into tonight’s game against Tampa Bay at the St. Pete Times Forum, the Isles have the fewest goals in the NHL and are showing no signs of improvement.
Their five-game winless streak has dropped them into a 10th place tie in the Eastern Conference. Their 13-12-2 record worth 28 points is only a shade behind their 14-10-3 mark for 31 points at the same stage a year ago. However, the alarming thing is that they were a team on the rise after a slow start last season, but now they are a team in decline after a surprisingly quick start out of the gate.
At this stage of the game, it’s only fair to ask if Islanders general manager Garth Snow gave up too much scoring over the summer? Let’s look at the numbers. The Isles’ goals-against after 27 games is 75 goals, the exact figure they had given up at that point last season. Their goals-for is 60 compared to 81 last season.
How do you account for the 21-goal differential? Their top three goal scorers through 27 games last season were Jason Blake (15), Viktor Kozlov (11) and Alexei Yashin (10), who combined for a total of 36 goals. Essentially, they have been replaced by Bill Guerin (5), Josef Vasicek (9) and Mike Comrie (9), respectively, who have a total of 23 goals between them. That’s a difference of 13 goals right there. Also, fourth-line players Richard Park, Chris Simon and Arron Asham had totaled 10 goals compared to five so far for Park, Simon and Bergenheim, but coach Ted Nolan hasn’t used his fourth line as much this season.
Asked about the difference in the teams in front of him last season and this one, goaltender Rick DiPietro said, “Well, I think the big thing for us last year was our five-on-five scoring. I think we were rated pretty high in the league. We had a lot of guys overachieve last year, and that helps out quite a bit. But we’ve got the talent in here to score goals. It comes down to getting those power-play chances and capitalizing on them. It’s not happening right now.”
DiPietro’s point about five-on-five scoring is well-taken. The Isles’ ratio of five-on-five goals for and against last season was 1.18, which ranked sixth in the NHL. Their current ratio is 0.82, which ranks 26th. This is a very important indicator. Of the top 16 teams in this category last season, 13 made the playoffs.
In fairness to Snow, his decisions against overpaying for Blake and Kozlov and in favor of buying out Yashin probably were the right ones. Coming off his 40-goal season, Blake is struggling with just three and not looking like a player worth a five-year investment of $20 million. Kozlov also has three goals after a career-high of 25 last season. Yashin had become such a pariah in his own locker room that he couldn’t get a job elsewhere in the NHL this season.
If the players Snow brought in put up numbers comparable to what they have averaged over their careers, the Islanders reasonably could be expected to match last season’s scoring totals. But for whatever reason, it’s not happening. Lack of speed could be one factor in beating modern defenses, but the Islanders, with the exception of Blake, weren’t especially fast last season.
More than anything, this team is having trouble just completing three straight passes in the offensive zone. It’s a fight just to gain control of the puck every time they chip it down the wall. There’s a serious lack of playmaking.
“We’re not creating anything,” said Guerin, who hasn’t scored a goal since Nov. 1 but has shown strong signs of progress the past couple games. “It’s not a question of work ethic for me. It’s just playing the game. We’ve got to play the game better. We’ve got to make plays better and generate offense. We’re giving the puck away all the time, and teams are so good defensively now that when you have it, you’ve got to do your best to keep it.
“We were winning games just a little while ago. We’ve got the speed to move the puck. We’ve got to make it work. When we play our system, we’re a very good team. When we’re skating like we can skate, we’re a good team.”
There’s two-thirds of a season left in which to prove that.
Comments (47)
So sad ... we have such a competitive, gritty team and we simply can't get the puck in the net. DP is playing great and we are wasting his stellar efforts. How are we gonna start scoring??? It's getting scary.
"Isles have the fewest goals in the NHL and are showing no signs of improvement."
If this is true, and it is, then lets get on with it. There's no way this team will possibly have a chance to win a round in the playoffs. Since that is the case, I don't see any reason to pretend otherwise, when this time could be used to do a lot of the "painful", "growing", development type-stuff here.
Really, is it worthwhile to agonize over the rest of the season, and go crazy trying to scrape together enough offense to barely win a game or two, when the best possible outcome is an 8th seed which will invariably be destroyed by the number 1? We've been there, done that. Several times in recent seasons. It sucks. We don't need any more of it.
Lets dump the old guys who can't play for picks. Lets let Tambellini play 20 minutes a game for the rest of the year, so he can finally silence those who for some reason think he's related to gordie howe. Let's stay away from Recchi, Schneider, and anyone else in the has-been pile thats almost 40 years old. There's enough quasi-geriatric players here already. Instead of all this talk about "building" set to work actually doing it.
I know we can't trade Rick, but wouldn't it be great to just like, rent him out for a season or three? By the time the team is ready to compete he would come back with a fistful of rings and a load of championship experience... For those of you thinking this kind of losing result isn't eating him alive like acid, I'm sure you are mistaken. How long is it reasonable to insist he endure it?
MetalChick, I'm real sorry if you took something personally, but, you're just talking nonsense with this "we saw how great this team really is! really!!" I mean, its just false. I cannot in good conscience allow such an evaluation to stand without comment and correction. You were one of the people ready to parade the cup after 10 games... as one can plainly see, it takes more to get a true and accurate assessment of a team. If you continue to insist that this team is as good as it looked early on... I'm afraid I must continue to insist you are at least misguided, if not outwardly ignoring the facts.
Frei,
I have to agree with you ...the Isles have been stuck spinning their wheels for a while now ...winning enough to barely sneak into the playoffs and get rocked. I want to see this team build a Cup contender ...not a 8th seed contender ...really the Isles need a top three pick for the next two years ...I obviously know that means the Isles would have to bomb the next few seasons, but if it means that the Isles draft wisely and could become a legit contender year after year then it would be worth it ...
How many times have we looked at the players the Isles drafted and got rid of? We could sit here and argue and complain about that fact, but it's past us now ...but, it doesn't have to happen again ...I think Okposo is going to be a legit forward in this league ...and if we could draft another quality young forward this year and next then you have something ...
Another thing I agree with Frei (as well as many others) on is that since it's painfully clear the Isles aren't winning the Cup this season, why not play some of the young guys ...it's more than past due to see what Tambellini can, or can't, do when given playing time - and PP time ...bring up Walter - see what he can do ...bring up anyone that's almost ready and give them that important experience now so that they'll be ready for when the Isles are ready to take that next step ...
Now, I'm rooting for the Isles to win ...I'm rooting for them to turn it around ...but if this goes on longer I'm going to be hoping for them to bomb ...here's a link to a Steve Stamkos goal ....its in a skills competition, but still it's nasty!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDchLQIQa4
Logan, why haven't you bothered to mention the wastes of life we have on our roster that can't score if their lives depended on it. Andy Hilbert and Sean Bergenheim are terrible. We pass on Recchi yet keep these two clowns in the lineup. How does playing guys with 3 goals between them help our scoring woes. By not signing Recchi, Snow is basically saying that he is worse than what we currently have. NO ONE IS WORSE THAN ANDY HILBERT and Nolan needs to get that through his big fat head.
Carmine, are you serious sign Recchi. Why? The guy is way past his prime and lacks speed and quickness which is something the Isles don't have either. He wouldn't do us any good.
I'm not sure what the answer is for scoring. I realize that the guys say that they have to work harder, but that can't be it. We need some soft goals to go in for us and hopefully the guys will gain their confidence again. It's a real shame to waste all of these good games by DiPietro.
Another penalty by Witt, we just can't continue to do this, their power play is tremendous. Another penalty, two men down. Not looking good.
Andy Hilbert is now officially ON FIRE!
Nice win. Nasty shot from Sillinger. A good thing too... I suspect squandering two consecutive powerplay chances in OT might have left a mark.
Greg: yash, meanwhile had a goal and assist in a game day ago...
Garth: pls no more semi-retired guys like recci, we have guerin and silly that should retire while they r in sunny fla.
PP still sucks.
Thx 2 ref tonight!
WOW!! That game drained me more than my own game today.
I just caught up watching it on TIVO ... I'll comment tomorrow. I have to get some ZzZz.
Not trying to come off as a Recchi fan but the guy is FAST and still a worthwhile 1st-2nd line winger. He had a good year last year with the PENs and is basically the odd man out in Michel Therien's system. He was slated to be skate with Crosby this year but lost out to an all out youth movement there. Last year he finished with 68pts! Maybe worth a look and at half price.
I agree with goislesgo. This is the perfect year to shed all of these players for 1st and 2nd round picks over the next two drafts--supposedly a deep draft pool. The players we have now are not nor are ever going to be good enough to make a serious run at Lord Stanley's Cup.
We might as well rebuild while we can. The more we mention the likes of Heatley, Spezza, Parise, Jokinen furthers the idea that we simply became too impatient at the wrong time. Before the 2001-2002 season we sold our picks and prospects in order to jump right into the playoffs--something we did which ended with a very hard fought battle with Toronto. But had we held onto many of those players for just a few more years we would easily be one of the best teams in the NHL.
If we keep going at our current pace, every season will look like the one now--the Isles will comprise a crew of "Ted Nolan" hard-working players who simply aren't good enough to score. Every team is locking their core players up for the long haul, so it's not like the Isles can rebuild via free-agency.
Unless the Isles could land someone like Vinny L at the deadline, I would look to shed each of Satan, Hunter, Silinger, Comrie, and Tank. I would hold onto Vasicek. Witt needs to be signed to a 2-3 year extention.
http://blueorangeblood.blogspot.com/
Nice win tonight. Great to have all three of those guys score.
The lineup was puzzling. Is MAB going to Conn? FM3 gets 4 mins instead of bringing up Walter... WTF?
PP Comrie, Silly and Hunter and Guerin, JoVas and Park... and Satan on the point...What is the logic behind pulling line combos out of your shorts. Why can't they just leave the top two lines out there and let them go at it. And for goodness sake, don't they remember what a failure Satan at the point was last year....
DP was terrific. Great play by Hunter to set up First Base Andy. And a tremendous game by Bergy... he's goingto bust out soon (2 goals in 5 games :-))
Frei and AZS,
I'm dying to hear these great deals for number one picks, and young AHL talent. What are the Isles going to give up, the Ice Girls?
They have some cash to take on salary if something special should come along.
Guys like Satan, Berard, MAB and Comrie (if they decide they are not going to sign him) will have value on the trade market...but don't expect too much in return for rentals. They won't give up the only truly valued commodity they have, DP...
I'm cool with what they are doing. they need to shake things up and that may mean some call ups and some roster clearing moves. But they don't seem to have any budding all stars. Bergy looks really good,and will probably be a good 20-30 goal scorer eventually.
they need to focus on doing what they can with what they have, and working towards a good draft and the FA market in July.
JPinVA ...
That's my point ...the Isles have no one ...they should hope to get a high draft pick this year and next year by finishing at the bottom of the league not by really trading anyone ...
but that being said, I'm sure they could get some picks for Satan or Hunter at the deadline ...
After all the bitter hysteria and calling for peoples heads, when it comes right down to it the fact is that the Isles went 1-1-1 on that southern road trip. They also scored 3 goals in 2 of the three games. Is that a huge amount of scoring? Of course not... but its at least something, and it was enough to get the Isles 3 out of 6 possible points. Thats actually not bad for any teams road trip.
Guerin has really looked great the last few games. He got that flukey goal tonight, but he also hit the post like 3-4 times in the last couple of games. Im really happy to see him returning to form.
Hilbert with a HUGE GOAL, too... got to give it to him when he earns it, Hilbert actually played a VERY good game all around tonight- good SOG, good positioning, good opportunities. Im very happy to see it.
Ricky was of course GREAT at making the saves- especially on that COMPLETE HORSECRAP of a penalty shot. But, Ricky ALSO put the Isles down by two men by forgetting the existence of the trapezoid! He was really mad at himself, too- you could tell. He played so well other than that.
Sillinger made me so happy on the OT PP tonight- when he was yelling out to Camps, taking charge, letting him know what to do, and what happened? It worked. Campoli is great- he is so improved from last season, and he has no ego problem or anyhting like that when it comes to listening to the veterans on this team tell him what to do. Every time someone puts Campolis name into one of their trade suggestions it hits me right in the heart... because I really think he is a very valuable member of this team.
And I agree with what has been said- that the Isles have some cash to play with if someone special should come along. However, I see NO reason to go for someone just because they are available, even i they do not fit what we need at ALL *cough Recchi cough*. Fortunately, I think Garth is going to be smart and patient on this one.
The Isles as is are not going to be big scorers, but they can compete and they can win... if they put in a complete effort. As miserable as many of you are, the fact remains that we have seen it more often than not this season. Now I would not say tonight was 100%, but hey- its the closest we have seen since Ottawa... and look what happened, they won- just like in Ottawa. Fact is, working as a team is the only way this team CAN win- because theres no big star that anyone can depend on to score. In a way thats not a bad thing- because once the Isles DO get a star scorer (which will happen eventually) having him come into a team that is conditioned to give up relatively few chances will pave the way for his success.
Having a team that really learns to work together is an important thing for the short term and long term success of this team.
Anyway, cheers again to the Islanders win. Al Arbour was there tonight- and you KNOW that he brought the Islanders luck just by being there! ;) If only we could bring him to Buffalo...
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Posted by Frei | December 8, 2007 17:00
MetalChick, I'm real sorry if you took something personally, but, you're just talking nonsense with this "we saw how great this team really is! really!!" I mean, its just false. I cannot in good conscience allow such an evaluation to stand without comment and correction. You were one of the people ready to parade the cup after 10 games... as one can plainly see, it takes more to get a true and accurate assessment of a team. If you continue to insist that this team is as good as it looked early on... I'm afraid I must continue to insist you are at least misguided, if not outwardly ignoring the facts.
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Sorry Frei, but I did take it personally. When someone goes out of their way just to call you "delusional" and "ignorant", there is no other way to take that BUT personally- because that is exactly how it is meant.
I never said "we saw how great this team really is! really!!", what I said was that we have seen this team AS IS win more games than they have lost, we have seen them bounce back when they were down and fid a way to win based on sheer determination, and there is no reason to think that ability just POOF! disappeared. We all know that they are not winning ANY games on skill (other than goaltending skill) but they CAN win games. They proved that again tonight. Now... will they KEEP doing it? Possibly, if they put in a **** of a lot more effort than we had been seeing for 4 of the prevous 5 games.
I also dont appreciate your "You were one of the people ready to parade the cup after 10 games" comment- I am not a moron and Ill ask you to remember that. I would never be so foolish as to ever have said anything of the sort just because a team of 2nd-4th liners was working hard enough to get wins. I am proud of what they have done and if youre not, good for you. But youve got no right to talk down to me just because you think Im wrong to be proud of what these guys have done and because my faith in them isnt as easily vaporized as yours. Im not giving you crap for not agreeing with me, am I?
I ALSO have never said "the team now looks as good as it did at the start of the season". Yet AGAIN I remind you that I am not a moron. Of course they dont look AS good, because they have not been winning- duh. What I DO "insist" is that these are the EXACT SAME GUYS who were winning earlier in the season, and IMO it makes NO SENSE to be so 100% damn sure now that the winning was the complete fluke and the losing should be expected from now on... unless you have absolutely no faith in the fact that effort and teamwork CAN win games.
In summary, please read my posts at face value and dont read them while adding your own fabricated sentences in, imagining that they are mine, attributing them to me in your posts, and then telling me Im wrong for supposedly saying them. If we get past that, then all is good. Sound fair?
Let's relax... We have most of the season in front of us. So we hit a stretch of bumpy road. See guerins goal tonite-thats what we haven't been getting...bounces. That's something that a team has no control over and something needed for winning consistently. Hopefully things will strart going our way.
And stop already about hilbert. He's not on the team to score goals. Our pk is nice and he and park are a HUGE reason why. This guy never takes a shift off. Complain about half the players here that have WAY more talent and show a small percentage of Hilberts heart. To be honest...he's one of my favorite guys on the team. you need players like that on your team
Good Morning Islander Fans!!
#1 I've accepted the fact that the Islanders are not the team that won their first 9 of 13 or so games. Not that that is a bad thing .. to keep up that pace would of been incredible. They were however able to put the puck in the net in October. The rest of the league has since adjusted to the Isles attack plan. They now pressure the Islanders power play forcing them to make passes (and mistakes). If you noticed the goal scoring went down with the PP. The Isles never got it together 5 on 5 this season. Fine .. no problem. We have DP, and an above average PK squad. What happens happens.
#2 Congrats to Guerin, Hilbert and Silly. Three of the hardest working players on the team really helped get 2 points last night. I hope the team has enough in the tank come April with the hard work they have to do game in game out just to get to the playoffs.
I wasn't happy with the over all play, but saw some streaks of hope last night inbetween fits of frustration.
They are only 4 points out of first place in the Atlantic and 3 points out of fourth place in the conference. Seems through this bad leg of the schedule the Islanders didn't lose much ground. That said we still need offensive help ... lowest scoring team in the league.
#3 I care more about the long term talent pool for the Islanders than I care about 1 season of making the playoffs and then out after the first round. I think 100% of you would agree with me that we have a talent problem. Someone pointed out that every team's top three offensive players is younger and more productive than the Isles top three. I'm not sure if there is an actual stat for that but I can't argue with that claim. It probably is true.
#4 Getting the youth via draft. Young talent develops much faster now than it used to take. Players like Rick Nash, Sid the Kid for example mature much faster as a player. They don't guarantee championships but do provide a reason to spend the bucks to see them play. That said those players don't grow on trees ... they are acquired at the draft. The Islanders will never get that kind of talent without trading up for draft picks or winning a draft lottery. I'd prefer the former over the later if possible.
FYI: I've seen his name pop up a few times as a possible pickup but Recchi was picked up by Atlanta yesterday.
I want to see this team win - not bomb. Always - I dont care about the draft, we must win in every game... Columbus have Nash and where are they? Atlanta picked Stefan years ago and where is he?
Focus in games, not draft!
Btw., I woke up early morning and realized Trashers claimed Recchi off waivers! I had a nightmare that Snow will claim him ... Thanks God he is heading to Atlanta!!
Don't worry about the draft?
Picking those two players to use to prove your point is rediculous. Are there players that don't help their teams win? Are there players teams draft that turn out to be busts? Ofcourse on both and I'm not saying your wrong on that ...
BUT, teams build from the draft.
...teams like the ISLANDERS need to build from the draft. I love the Islanders and I love going to every game at the Colliseum, but the reality is that this isn't really that much of a hot spot for players to want to come play (mainly because no one shows up to games to support their team) ...so, since we can't buy players we need to develop them - turn this team around with a core nucleus of young players then make other players say "hey, this is a team on the rise. A team ready to go to the next level - I want to be a part of that" ...how do you think the Isles won the 4 cups? Through the draft! With some key trades along the way ....
I'm not gonna sit here and go through the drafts and point out to Piero all of the teams that have turned around their whole futures through the draft but just look at Pitts (Crosby, Malkin, Staal) ...they were garbage for years and now they've drafted well (got lucky with Sidney) and will be a tough team for years ...
If you're happy with the Isles sneaking into the playoffs and getting rocked that's fine ...but ...and I know people here don't like when I play this card, but I'm a season ticket holder ...I put my money where my large mouth is ...so I'm one of the 8,000 people on a Tuesday cheering my team on - regardless of the situation, but at some point we have to be REALISTIC about what will help this team in the long run ...
NEW ARENA
GOOD DRAFTING
KEY TRADES
and most importantly GOOD ATTENDANCE ...
Lets Go Islanders ...
For the person who said Hilbert isn't out there to score goals, that's fine. I agree. But someone who isn't out there to score goals shouldn't be playing 15 minutes per game, especially on a team with scoring difficulties. That's 15 minutes out of 60 (1/4 of the game) that you can be assured we will most likely NOT score a goal. Let's face it, both of Hilbert's goals so far were lucky. He threw the puck at the net. 49 out of 50 times the goalie will stop those kinds of shots.
What the Islanders need that they dont have, and havent had since maybe Turgeon is a tru goal scorer..though we had about 5 but gave up on them to early....We have two 2nd lines a 3rd and 4th line..Comrie is a great 2nd line center, maybe he could be a good 1st line center if he had more talent on his line..Comrie tries to hard on every play to make it a high light reel play, i hate that and shoot the damn puck....I think our defense is pretty solid, were young, yet have middle aged veterans who are solid, i think we have one of the top defenses in the league, and i guess DP helps that alot also..I would really like to see producing a true 1st line, not NOLAN type players and for the love of god please get rid of hilbert, dont get me wrong hes great on the penalty kill and hes a hustler and works hard every shift, but he couldnt score on a wide open soccer net if the game depended on it...Theres still hope for the season to turn around, id like to reach the 6th seed, but the division is so close this year and competitive, i doubt we'll even make the playoffs, but theres always hope....And by all star week, if were on the verge of not making the playoffs, trade some guys, get high draft picks and bring up the youngsters and let them show us some stuff....LETS GO ISLANDERS
AZS: There are so many great players who were not drafted high. Demitra (227th), Bondra (156th) - to name just two Slovaks.
And I can continue with Zetterberg (210th), Datsyuk (171st), Bude (113th), Hasek (199th), Alfredsson (133th), Kaberle (204th)... did you realize? All of them Europeans!
Maybe that's the problem. You guys living in the US are concentrating on draft instead of scouting. I would say scouting is much more important than good position at draft... Detroit is TOP 3 team in NHL... when did they have top position at entry draft? Their two biggest stars were drafted in 6th and 7th round respectively. This means you dont have to have good position at draft to build a great team.
I don't remember claiming that scouting wasn't important ...and I don't recall ever claiming that late round picks couldn't become great players ...so what's really your point here? My point is that the Isles need to improve through the draft ...I happen to have more faith that they can do that quicker by picking higher ...would it be nice if the Isles could grab someone in the later rounds? Ofcourse ...but if all of the scouts are claiming that Stamkos this year and Tavares next year are franchise changing players shouldn't we want to get them?
No, you didn't say that. But you said that we need to improve through the draft. And you said we should finish bottom of the league to draft high.
I don't like this idea because it doesn't guarantee success.
Division leaders:
Devils - no high picks recently
Sens - only Spezza (and Redden| and I have mentioned Alfie who was drafted 133th
Canes - Staal
Red Wings - no high picks recently
Canucks - Sedins? I'm not sure about their draft position
Sharks - ?
At least Devils and Wings proved that good position at draft is not a must when building successful team... And for europeans is draft not that important as for americans (I mean hockey fans, not players)...
Piero, to clarify, the Sedins were taken 2nd and 3rd overall by the Canucks. It's true, however, that smart drafting can lead to some hidden-round gems. Think about the Avs taking Svatos in the 7th round and Liles in the 4th. Either of those guys would look great on the Islanders. I'm not, of course, suggesting anybody directly said this, but drafting a future superstar with a high pick seems like the same sort of quick-fix mentality to me. If you look at guys like Kovalchuk and Ovechkin, how many playoff series have they won? Zero. I'm all for bringing in guys who fit our team concept and can grow up with the team, because that's the main way you can get people to put down roots here and want to forego free agency to stay here.
I had a theory about a lot of this. Do you think the salary cap is the reason the Islanders don't go with a full-fledged youth movement? I know it sounds strange, but let's not forget there's also a cap floor. Snow had to sign guys like Guerin, Comrie, Fedotenko, and Sutton because he needed to fill out the payroll to comply with league rules. This might be what's leading to the quick-fix turnaround strategies suddenly prevalent in the "New NHL." If the Islanders jettisoned guys like Comrie, Satan, and Fedotenko to make room for the kids, they may not hit the minimum salary and would be penalized anyway.
As for last night's game, this team continues to impress me one minute and make me want to strangle them through my TV the next. Overall, I liked the effort yesterday, and I hate to say this but DP is not channeling his emotions in the proper way. It's such a paradox since, as a goaltender, he feels the weight of the team on his shoulders, and as people have pointed out he's trying to win the games all by himself and in doing so reverting to his old ways. I've said it before and I'll say it many times afterward - he needs to concentrate on stopping the puck, since a) that's the biggest way he can contribute, and b) he's one of the best in the world at it. It was good to see the grinders score, though I called my friend after Hilbert's goal to make sure I wasn't dead, asleep, or hallucinating at the time. I can't even beat the First Base drum anymore, since we've all talked about it to death and I don't think either the pro-Hilbert or anti-Hilbert people will move much on their thinking. Let's hope this game is a sign of good things to come, and I think we should continue to aggressively scan the market for ways to improve the team (Where have you gone, Mathieu Schneider? Out powerplay turns its lonely eyes to you...). For now, I'm reserving judgment.
JP: Interested in Caps/Rags on Wednesday at the Verizon Center? We could always meet outside that Chipotle and go in - since you know it won't be sold out.
Piero: As I mentioned before, let us know if you're coming to NVMC and we'll roll out the red carpet for you.
Also, I found out my client in DC is around the corner from the Capitals' new practice facility in Arlington. I may play a game - show up with a huge sign reading OVECHKIN WE NEED YOU ON LONG ISLAND and see how long it takes to get myself thrown out. We should bet on this....any takers?
Saint Nick: Thanks for that, I'll do my best. I have a flight to Clevelend, OH on w/c 7th January and will go back to Europe early April.
I'm not sure about company car but if not, I will rent a one by myself. Not sure about flight from Cleveland to NYC but will try to find out. I'll do my best to come to NVMC but the possibility to watch Isles in Pittsburgh, Columbus or Detroit seems to be more realistic... anyway, thanks for your kind offer and I hope to see you in NVMC (and outside should you want to go out for a beer or two :))
Sounds good (and this is Nick, in case you missed it when I said I'd make this my handle until Christmas if we beat Ottawa). It'll make up for when we couldn't meet up when I was in Bratislava. Given the schedule there will definitely be a way to work things out some way or another - just keep us posted.
The Draft Concept
Most teams don't improve via free agency or trade unless they have a CORE of talented players to build upon. The Rags tried it for years. They have on paper what should be a formidable team. However like the Isles they have their goalie to thank. Only now do the Rags after 7 playoffless years have a decent talent pool from which to draw upon.
Detroit and the Devils are 2 fine examples of fine scouting and drafting. They've also traded up and stock piled mid-level draft picks. Made some killer trases and dabbled in free agency. Neither one has had the talent void in the prospect pool department because they always made sure it was well stocked.
Lou Lamoriello's philosophy is simple. The team first ... he will not overpay for a player. He'll wave bye-bye before having a player take him to the bank. Why can he do that? Because he knows he has good prospects to draw upon.
For Detroit you have Jim Devellano, who as most long time Islander fans know used to be an apostle for Bill Torrey. Jimmy D used Bill T's model for the Islander Dynasty to create the Red Wing semi-dynasty.... and his first pick was Steve Yzerman.
Devellano once said that there are certain prospects that could never be pried away from him, Keith Primeau at that time was one of them. I think he was drated high like Yzerman. Infact Bill Torrey when he was still with the Islanders tried to trade for Primeau when he was a rookie. No Dice as the saying goes.
The bottom line is successful GMs like Devellano and Lamoriello covet their draft picks and value them. Piero spoke of how Detroit had all these great European players ... of course they do. Detroit has been the perfect model for European scouting.
Whether you pick someone up in the first round (see Scott Scissions) or in the later rounds (See Demitra) you really don't know what you are going to get until they put on your uniform. The Isles need to hedge their bets and acquire as many draft picks as possible and do their home work.
Actually the Rangers always just spent spent spent and traded away their picks. The reason they have some nice young talent now, is b/c they did a fire sale right before the league instituted the CAP (Traded Leach, Barnaby, etc.)
Funny how the ole boys club gave the Rags a heads up!
If the Bobbleheads have taught us anything, it is that they are not going to fold tent and not go for the playoffs. All you need to do is look at least year when they gutted the farn for Capt. Canada...aka rental boy!
The Isles will keep playing it the same until February. If they are WAY out of it, then hopefully they do the smart thing and move Comrie, Hunter, Silly, and others that have something a playoff bound team needs.
Missed the game last night....Anyone stand out?
Good pace to last night's game...fun to watch, and better since it was a W. At least there was some effort there against TB...that Florida game was a nightmare. I guess from now on, Campoli has to do WHATEVER Sillinger tells him to, ha. Chewed him out on the bench and then they hook up on the next play for two shots and the GWG.
HIlbert scored because he actually had his head up this time...it wasn't just a panicked shovel shot.
Steady ... yeah ... Sather is part of that old boys club. That was kind of my point. That the only reason they have promising prospects is because of the last few years .... that fire sale included. You had to know something was up then.
I can't hope for the Isles to lose games to get higher draft picks. It goes against my competitive nature. I just hope they are able to swing a trade for a high level pick ... maybe to a lottery team. Some teams don't have the patience to keep building via the draft.
Actually the player who stood out for me the most was DP. Came up with some big saves ... what else is new? As far as skaters ... Guerin seemed like he was on a mission. The game see sawed back n forth though. Sometimes I wanted to pull my hair out from the bone head plays / penalties.
Snow made the right moves on blake, kozlov and yashin (perhaps a year late on yashin). He even made a gutsy trade for Smyth -- it is tough to see Robert Nilsson starting to play well for the oilers (pts in 5 straight). Smyth is the reason for our scoring woes. Snow gave away 3 #1's. Smyth led Snow on and then took less to play in Denver leaving Snow little time for plan b. I give Snow credit for not ripping Smyth in the press. It is a shame the Avanlanche do not come to LI this year- if ever Smyth skates on to the Isles home ice i hope he gets boooed to no end.
Yeah richt ... I think St. Louis gave up 2 #1's and Scott Stevens for Brendan Shanahan.... and I'd take Stevens over Shanahan sraight up back in those days. Offensive power forwards were a dime a dozen back then. Scott Stevens type players only come around a few times a decade.
I think if a team signs a high salaried RFA you give up 3 #1's and then some depending on how high the salary. The difference is ... the Isles never signed Smyth ... and got nothing b/c he was a UFA.... water under the bridge now. Of course if Snow knew what he knows now he'd of held onto those chips for a different game.
Nick, I'm still interested in game Wednesday. I'll know more Tuesday. Sign up for talk back and I think you can send me msg.
I wasn't a huge proponent of getting Recchi... but ATL picked him up for $900k. I'm not sure, but he's a better option than FM3 with Tank on the shelf. How could ATL be on the waiver list above us... dod we waste our spot on the list for FM3? Does anybody know how that works?
The waiver list works in reverse order ...the worst team in the league gets to decide 1st if they want to pick up the player ...then 2nd and so on ...
Where can one begin?
First, perhaps the only thing harder than watching the Isles struggle is Bridgeport. I was there yesterday and if there were actually 1,000 in the building, it was a lot. In fact, they shut down 2/3 of the food stands in the middle of the 2nd period because there were so few people.
And the thrills provided by the Baby Isles???? Virtually none. But there is some grit--and Comeau gets ticked off when he misses a shot in warm-ups!
Friends, look around. The Islanders are smack in the middle of the new NHL salaray-cap driven mediocrity. The central question to me is are we getting better, getting worse, or just treading water. And if your record is what you are, then the Islanders actions over the past five years tell us what they are--content treading water and simply having a chance at the playoffs.
What concerns me most about this team--and it's similar to last year, are 1) is that while we resemble a team that's competitive, we appear on the downward slope, and 2) the ownwership lacks the wherewithal (and resources?) to be patient.
Looking at the team, compare us to the Penguins; Each of us lost in the first round, but who was looking forward more to this season. Who wants to take this entire bunch into next season? Unless Okposo steps in and scores 25 goals--who gets you excited in the system? Perhaps we are just a player or two away--but as we saw this off-season, in looser free-agency, you may also lose a solid piece or two that needs to be replaced. Do we have that in the system? Do we have anyone in the system given a chance to cut their teeth in the NHL--even if it means accepting youngster errors?
The ownership, looking primarily to develop around the Coliseum, clearly believes that a crappy rebuilding franchise is a dead-weight on their already arduous struggle to initiate the Lighthouse project. Indeed, the only rational way to justfy the Ryan Smyth deal last year was the belief that winning just one round in the playoffs (maybe two) would provide enough hoopla to generate support for the Lighthouse. That is, it was a business trade, not a pure hockey trade. This is not to denigrate Wang, who I think is genuinely interested in on-ice success, but winning is not his passion the way it is with George Steinbrenner. The Isles are one piece of a broader mosaic.
I guess as a fan, I'm more willing to accept losses seeing a team of youngsters with a future than seeing older guys fight for a 7th or 8th seed. And while it's till too early in the season for me to render a final judgment on what we have, for now, I know I'd much rather see Bergie, Tamby, or Walter/Nokie getting regular minutes over a Chris Simon.
To the moron who posted about us letting a 40 goal scorer go this summer, Blake is NOT a 40 goal scorer - but you're a ranger fan so I wouldn't expect you to comprehend that. He had one fluke season with the islanders. He has 3 goals thus far with Toronto. Yeah, great 40 goal scorer there lol. My question for you is why would the Rangers just give Cullen away to Carolina (this is assuming you know who Cullen is)? Now HE is having a great season with Carolina while the Rangers just circle the drain with their multimillion dollar free agent signings lol.
If the Lighthouse doesn't work out Brooklyn is in our future, WE'LL BE INVADING YOUR TURF!
Let's back off the simplistic arguments on both sides about Jason Blake. He left because he's 34 years old, had one good year, and wanted a 5 year contract. The Islanders were willing to offer 3, Toronto gave him 5, end of story.
As for the team itself, I agree completely with Merrick's point that they were hoping to galvanize fan support for the Lighthouse by making a push in the playoffs last year. Too bad DP was injured making that aggressive play and we ran into a very good Buffalo team.
My biggest concern is the lack of quality drafting. Campoli in the 7th round is looking like a steal, but how many other players with potential have legitimately been grabbed after the 1st round by this team? Let's not forget that not only was Nilsson taken over Zach Parise, he was taken about 20 picks in front of PATRICE BERGERON, who went in the 2nd round. Maybe the scouting staff needs some new blood, because I'm sick of saying "Why didn't the Islanders take a chance on that guy?", whether it's Bergeron, Svatos, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or anyone else...I'd rather say "Wow! How the hell did we get him in the 5th round?" or something similar. There needs to be a culture of intelligence instituted throughout this organization. The scouting staff needs to identify draftees the way they've identified diamonds in the rough like Kozlov and Vasicek.
I agree with Merrick - I would rather see a young team scrape and claw its way to victory than a team full of veterans. Sadly, the Lighthouse project and the cap floor will guarantee the Islanders have to go through free agency. I hope they take a good approach and stockpile draft picks in the event that this season is lost, and I hope whatever prospects we have don't go out in another Smyth-like trade unless the guy is already signed. As much as I loved the Smyth move (and still do), we can't do that every year. I look forward to rooting for an improved Islanders team, but I think ownership, as per Merrick's point, needs to understand that building a consistent team that bonds with the fan base can help its PR cause just as much as "making the playoffs" every year.
Also, I re-iterate: I'm at my client site, which is around the corner from the Capitals' practice facility. Who thinks I should go and tamper with Ovechkin on the Islanders' behalf?
Nick:
Go for it! I say if you just stand there with a sign they may leave you alone. Maybe you can really be St. Nick and touch a chord in Ovechkin.
(its nice to be wanted :)
aaa - J Blake scored many goals whil playing w/Yash.
Healy, I just may go. I could also call him out for taking a girl from me during the Olympics in Torino (that actually happened, believe it or not).
Anon - I know exactly where the facility is. I'm on Fairfax Blvd, on the other side of the Ballston mall. I walk by that thing a few times a week.
Also, I 100% agree with the lack of exposure that team gets. At least the Islanders TRY, and I daresay 7:30 start times and a rail link to the Coliseum will do wonders for attendance. Maybe even something like a park-and-ride from LIRR stations in the area (Hempstead, Freeport, Westbury, Mineola) would be a worthwhile thing to consider. I'm stunned this hasn't happened or been openly discussed yet.
Hey Saint Nick. Take care of the neighborhood. I'm a GMU Law School guy and lived on North Randolph. Why couldn't they have that when I lived there.
Actually, don't blame the Caps. With the exception of the Redskins, decently playing Bullets (oops, Wizards), and Maryland hoops, DC has always been a pretty crappy sports town. Anyone near town comes froms someplace else or if you were born in the suburbs, the traffic is even worse than NY, making it tough to get to a game.
Oh I know, I don't specifically blame the Caps, I'm just shocked at the general lack of enthusiasm for sports around here, but then again the argument of everyone in DC being a transplant is pretty accurate. I am however dismayed the Isles aren't realizing more success in attracting people to the Coliseum on weekday games and many weekend tilts this season. We should get a thread going on the TalkBack where we discuss our ideas about how we can do it.
Nick...do it...but dress in a Santa outfit!
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Posted by AOL | December 11, 2007 17:37 Has the offseason exodus finally caught up to the Islanders? New York now has lost four straight, and has fallen into the Atlantic basement.
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Huh? You posted this yesterday, but what are you even talking about? The Islanders just went 1-2-1 in their last 4 games, which is NOT the same as going 0-4 no matter how much a troll like you wants to make-pretend that it is.
More importnatly, only a friggin idiot would imagine that being 4pts away from 3rd place in the division with TWO games in hand and a better head-to-head record with the ones sitting there is the "basement". After all... if it is the basement, then the Rangers, Penguins, and Islanders are ALL in it together... and does that make any sense?
Just thought I'd throw a comment in here because I can't sleep.
Bergenheim has a future in the NHL... Tambellini... not so much.
His next trip to Bridgeport might be one way. The team is running out of options. It might be time to give Walter another shot centering a fourth line with Simon and let Park get that ice time with Guerin and Comrie until tank is back.
Tambellini has just shown zero at the NHL level... 20 minutes a game will just mean that the Isles are pressed for 18 minutes in their own zone. He doesn't suck, but he's a three season project starating out on the fourth line.... at best.
So if he stays, park moves up, Walter gets an apprenticeship as well and somebody has got to go when Tank is healthy...
Garth... work those phones baby! But healthy scratches shouldn't kill this team. Hilbert... Simon... even Guerin and Comie...
Maybe a little competition will send a message to the whole team.