Holding down the fort from the Fort
As Erik explained one post down, I'm sitting in for him today as he makes his way back across the country. I'm sure his flight won't seem as lengthy as if did for the Jets following their brutal 16-13 OT loss to the dysfunctional Raiders in Oakland.
"Extremely long," linebacker Calvin Pace said of the trip back from the West Coast, "especially after a loss. It seems even longer."
Eric Mangini talked and we spoke with Pace, Chansi Stuckey, and D'Brickashaw Ferguson as they tried to explain how they lost to the bumbling Raiders. In essence, the themes of today were "missed opportunities" and "we let one get away."
"What's most disappointing about the game is the opportunities that we had," Mangini said, "whether it be in the red zone where we've got a third-and-3 on the 3, get a penalty, then a turnover. So that cost probably a minimum of three points. Then you look at the turnover we had on special teams where that results in three points."
Stuckey said: "We definitely feel like we had a great chance to win the game. We actually go out to win each game, obviously. But it's just one of those things that we had it in our grasp and we let it slip away."
Ferguson said: "I think it's just a matter of analyzing what we did wrong. I think Kansas City is another opponent that we have to look forward to and say hey, in order to rectify this wrong, we have to make that right, And we are going to do everything in our power to get that win."
- * Mangini said Jerricho Cotchery got a little nicked up (didn't think he was going to tell us exactly what it was, did you?) and the extent of what is believed to be a leg injury won't be known until later in the week.
-* Think the Jets should have more plays for Brad Smith? Smith came in with no catches and two runs for a total of 26 yards, but had four receptions for 29 yards and four runs for 59 yards, His biggest moment was on the Jets' fourth quarter drive in which they tied the score at 10. Smith ran 39 yards on a reverse.
Mangini said the Jets have a package of plays for Smith installed in the gameplan every week and if the defense isn't giving the look they expect when Smith is in there, the quarterback usually calls an audible. Smith's improvement as a receiver could get him on the field more.
"What's nice about it now with Brad is he's developing more and more as a receiver," Mangini said. "So it's not like you have to put Brad in for his plays. He's in during the course of the regular game and you can just the plays as part of the natural progression. To me, that's better situation than saying, 'Insert him to run his specific plays.'"
- * Lastly, for those wondering if Brett Favre addressed that foxsports.com story about him giving the Lions details about the inner workings of the Packers' offense, the answer is no he did not address them. Favre usually speaks to the media on Wednesdays and did not make himself available today. He was spotted briefly in the locker room during the time the media had access, but it was for a split second.
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Comments (39)
Good stuff, Cookie Monster. Thanks for the lowdown.
No, thank you Gridderbob.
boland gives jet offence a b what game was he wathing?
Grade B What game were u watching Eric
We were better off with Pennington. I think with Pennington we win yesterday and the game against NE. From the begining of the talk of the Jets getting Favre I said it was a bad idea. The thought that Favre not knowing a system would be better than Chad who knows the system like the back of his hand is a joke. Remember all the shifting we used to do with Chad, all the changes he'd make at the line, we don't get that now. Chad behind this line would have at least gotten us to the playoffs and the way the AFC is now maybe deep into the playoffs. I don't know that Favre is doing that. With all the upgrades we've made, if your going to change QB's you better be right. Even from a financial point of view ask Woody if paying Favre twice what Chad was making is providing him the proper return on investment?
Yeah, hypajett, you're right to call me out on that. That might have been generous on my part. I guess I was caught up in the rushing yards, but if I make the bottom line points allowed for giving the defense a decent grade, I should have used the same standard on the offense.
Well, it's Monday night and it's cold and crowded out on the ledge. Next time i'm bringing smores. Back to the drawing board for the week. Now to mix a new batch of that 'ol Green Kool Aid. Maybe i'll start adding booze. Go Jets.
Well its Tuesday and time to get over the Raiders game. Get ready for the Chiefs and beat up on them. After that the Jets will have to get on a role.Never will jump ship hang in there. GO JETS!!!!!
Joe, you are correct. But you have to remember that Favre was brought in to sell PSL's, not win more football games than we would have otherwise.
That is the only logical explanation for an expensive one year rental of a fading star.
Oh well, maybe 4 or 5 years from now... I wonder who the coach will be...
Joe P I have to dissagree that they are on the way to fixing this thing for next season. What have they done historically in the draft that gives you faith in a smart quantity with quality draft? They find a couple of good players but are losing the battle of attrition. We will not have the luxury of the cap money that we used this year to buy a QB,RT,LG & OLB. We will not be a top tier team unless we start using our mid round picks for the line and stop wasting them because they fall in love with a player and trade 2 picks away. The top teams recognize the need to restock talent on the lines but we seem to believe we can take a Jacob Bender and make him NFL caliber. It's stupid arrogance on their part and we have been too cute for too long in the draft. Nugent, Schlegel for Christ's sake? Where is Jolly and Barlow? The list is too long and I realize hindsight is 20/20 but they make too many luxury picks and we aren't talented enough to afford that.
I have given up on this regime after watching their regression and transparent desperation this year to sell PSLs.
Maybe this will change your minds about Favre:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdDWZVWZ6t8
I thought Mangini would really help us get over the hump. I love the Jets, ask ANYONE. I still think we can make the playoffs. I just can't stand the play calling. That game was one of the worst games I have EVER watched. Very undisciplined on both sides, horrible play calling, and bad officiating at times as well. It literaly pained me to watch it. I love our Jets but I was thoroughly disgusted. As hard as this is for me to say, they remind me of my Mets. I thought the Jets would help me forget their collapse, but the Jets are doing the same thing the Mets always do...play to the level of their competition. We need a cutthroat passionate coach. Am I calling for Mangini's head? No. I just want to see passion. I know that it's in them...something or someone has to bring it out. Lets go Jets.
JETVET, I cant debate your last post. I am just trying to muster up that last little glitter of hope for the future. Lets face it, this organization has made many bad moves.
The track record is dead on as you point out.
It just might take a total house cleaning with Woody selling, or maybe they just might go more blue collar on the lines which I agree 100%, hello Giants.
A positve is, with the solid lines , we already have the play makers, barring a RB and burner at WR.
To make matters worse ,we really dont know who is calling all the shots,Tangini or Woody ? I know with the Favre scenario it was Woody for PR and $$$$$$$$$$
I believe Pennington would have gotten us to the playoffs, but we have seen over the past several years we have become accustomed to Chad's limitations. Pennington is unable to beat the good teams and the top defenses, especially in the playoffs. The hope is that Favre can take us to a level that Pennington could not.
The barometer of whether the Favre trade was a good one should be not whether we make the playoffs, but whether we can win at least a round once we get there. If we do not make the playoffs and win a round and Favre does not return next season, then the deal was not a good one. However, if we do win a round and/or Favre returns, it was a good deal. Remember, Chad himself was also only a short term solution at QB, albeit potentially a longer term solution than Favre.
If we make the playoffs, I like our chances of advancing MUCH better with Favre than with Chad. Although the Jets have not distinguished themselves as a likely playoff team to this point, I am hopeful that they will improve as the season goes on, will be a dangerous team by the end of the season AND will make the playoffs.
Pennington looks a lot better to many of you in a Dolphins uniform than he did in the green and white. But in evaluating Favre and the trade, let's not forget Chad's limitations, as witnessed over the past five plus seasons.
Enough about Chad's limitations. We know he doesn't have Favres arm. What good is his arm doing us right now? If we had Chad still and everything else remains the same do you still think we are 3-3? I don't see how we wouldn't win the East and go deep into the playoffs. If not alot of people deserve to be unemployed.
Last game has to serve as a wakeup call. With Favre we are supposed to have this high powered offense. Our D gave up 13 in regulation and we couldn't win. It's only my opinion but I'd rather have the smart Qb who wins games.
Brett was my favorite non-Jet player my entire life. I really hope he turns it on and takes us deep into the playoffs. Anything less than that though is a failure. But everytime I look at the schedule I see Miami in the last week. I hope Chad doesn't keep us out of the playoffs.
Hey Cliff, thanks for the lesson in what it means to be a fan.
Per Websters abridged, "short for fanatic, or enthusiast".
So I guess you have a point in that it does not indicate pessimist as a definition.
But, reading the last three threads, I am hardly more critical of this team than about 20 other commenters at this point.
For the record, I predicted a WIN this week, so how exactly was I pessimistic. I predicted 10 wins a playoff berth BEFORE the Favre trade, and if that ain't optimism I dont know what qualifies.
And I WAS a ten year season ticket holder and never once got beaten up or even threatened (except when I knocked over a 16 ounce beverage onto a well dressed female enthusiast in front of me, but thats another story), always rooted for the Jets to win and always will.
But I do think it is fair to criticize the coaches, management, and players when warranted, and question whethar they can win a particular upcoming contest, in fact it is part of the commonly accepted behavior of fans all over the world.
If your definition is blindly rooting for your team, and believing (see "Kool-Aid , Jonestone") every spin spin they throw at you, enjoy it as it is your right if thats what floats your boat.
Me, I prefer exercising my right of free speech to express my thoughts about the team, its strategy, personnel makeup and the color if it's throwback uniforms if I so choose and will continue to do so as long as the Security Code filter demons let me.
Feel free to disagree in a civil, non personal, matter, as you so choose. Any forum for commentary is about exchanging opinions, and those that simply preach to the choir without occasional disagreement get old and tired very quickly. Thankfully, this is not one of them.
I for one was not in favor of getting Favre. He has done some good things for this team. He gave/gives us hope. Before his arrival we were looking at Clemens as our starter. Pennington was going to be the backup.
The best thing Favre can do for us is teach all the young QB's we have how to play the position. Clemens, Ratliff and Ainge need to watch Favre and see how he runs through his progressions and not give up on a receiver. If that happens, the money and year or two is well spent. Let us not forget the greed of the owner in all of this. Look at the PSL's and what their going for on the auction. It's insanity at its best and who makes out? Woody. That's why Favre was brought to NY.
If you thought last week was a setup for failure, just take a look at what's pulling into the Gettolands this weekend. Herm would love nothing more then to beat his old team. That's a fact. Especially with a subpar team he says is in a rebuilding year. Don't think I can even stomach the drive up to watch this one.
mike from bumpass - I disagree with one thing you said and that was that Clemens was going to be the starter. From the 6 practices I saw and the daily reporting I've read I think it was obvious Pennington was clearly winning the QB battle.
Erik - Would that be a fair assesment of the camp battle?
At least my Nittany Lions are giving me a good year.
Mangi was mentioned last night on ESPN as one of the coaches on the hot seat, and the Daily News has a very critical article today, so apparently I am not the only one quesioning the wisdom of his strategy and game management.
That does not make me a pessimist, but rather a very disappointed enthusiast.
Joe, where I disagree with you is in your statement that with Chad we would "win the East and go deep into the playoffs", and that's why it is important to focus on Chad's limitations when evaluating the Favre trade. Chad could not take us to the next level, and I do not believe he would have this season, either.
The hope is that Favre can take us further than Chad ever could, and to me that is a realistic hope. Whether it comes to fruition remains to be seen, but to me an evaluation of the Favre trade should be made in that context. Got to love those Nittany Lions, though, although Saturday's game on the road will be a big test.
Oh, and Wayne, you are as much a fan as any of us. I often find blowing off steam on this blog to be therapeutic, and the criticisms of fans, particularly right after a difficult loss, should be weighed with this in mind. Like you, sometimes my disappointment and frustration is palpable, but come Sunday I'll be right beside you, rooting as hard as ever for the J-E-T-S.
I agree with Cliff that criticism of the team can be counterproductive at times, particularly when it manifests itself in booing. But short of booing the team at a game, no criticism should be taken as an indictment of a "fan".
Pennington is gone. All the discussion on him is a moot point.
Favre is here now. I agree this loss in directly on him. I will save judgment until the end of the season, or at least until Buffalo. Doesn't really matter, he is one and done. That is why I was opposed to bringing him in.
As far as Mangini goes, he is a very young HC, just like young players he is going to make mistakes. I don't think hi is on the hot seat this year at all. Next year is a different matter. You can't develop a team, or a winning attitude buy changing coaches every 3 years.
Joe, where I disagree with you is in your statement that with Chad we would "win the East and go deep into the playoffs", and that's why it is important to focus on Chad's limitations when evaluating the Favre trade. Chad could not take us to the next level, and I do not believe he would have this season, either.
The hope is that Favre can take us further than Chad ever could, and to me that is a realistic hope. Whether it comes to fruition remains to be seen, but to me an evaluation of the Favre trade should be made in that context. Got to love those Nittany Lions, though, although Saturday's game on the road will be a big test.
Oh, and Wayne, you are as much a fan as any of us. I often find blowing off steam on this blog to be therapeutic, and the criticisms of fans, particularly right after a difficult loss, should be weighed with this in mind. Like you, sometimes my disappointment and frustration is palpable, but come Sunday I'll be right beside you, rooting as hard as ever for the J-E-T-S.
I agree with Cliff that criticism of the team can be counterproductive at times, particularly when it manifests itself in booing. But short of booing the team at a game, no criticism should be taken as an indictment of a "fan".
I also believe with CP, we would have won more games. The reason is, our team is built for a game manager style.Favre came from a team that was built for his recklessness. We dont have that style. All the confusion and changes that CP made on the line to confuse the D is not present. CP would be perfect for this new jets team with his killer play action and intelligence and ability to adapt which Favre cant. And please, do you know what BF would have looked like with the jets last season? YIKES!
Instead, we have a gunslinger who dont know the offense with age and eroding skills making him too one dimensional. CP adapted better to different Defensive scenarios, while BF is like a boxer who is aged and is winding up for the big one ,but getting hammered in the process.
Again, his heart and body will have him KOd before the season ends. Another great move by management. Go woody !!!
Joe Musgo - I understand Chad has limitations. But lets look at this systematically. You say you see where Chad has taken us. Ok the farthest he took us was to a missed field goal from the AFC championship game while he had a bum shoulder. With that being set as the bar to judge Favre by lets do just that. You telling me that is where Favre is taking us means anything else has to be considered failure.
What about Favre's limitations? He doesn't know the playbook, he doesn't seem to really want to be here (watch his expression at the overtime coin toss), he doesn't have the intellectual capacity to grasp this complicated system predicated on checks and adjustments in such a short time. Don't get me wrong, not many could but with Chad there was no need for that.
Here's an example. How often did you see Chad run the team to the line and take a quick snap and sneak for a first down to catch the d napping. Lets count from this day forward how many time Favre does it.
Ultimately it doesn't matter. Chad is gone, Brett is here and I'm still a Jets fan. Sunday we need to win and thats the bottom line.
Hey Joe,
You may be right about Clemens not being the starter. I know going into camp he was and during camp he was throwing a lot of int's. I don't know if the leader board ever officially changed though. I have a feeling and it's only a feeling, Clemens was starting no matter how camp went. Why? This coaching staff was/is tired of the same product on the field and wanted new blood out there. Pennington would not have been new blood. He may have been inserted into the game plan by now, who knows.
I'm not going to bad mouth Favre, he's our QB for now. I said a long time ago, this team is not a QB away from the Super Bowl. Anyone who thought they were, was kidding themself.
I was so upset over this loss that I couldn't even read a Jets article until today. It is incredibly frustrating to be a fan of this team. Now I know what a Red Sox, Ranger or Cubs fan must be like (and that's not a dig to those fans, just empathy).
Uggh!!!
Joe Musgo - you're right, we'll never know. And your right about us not being a QB away from the big game. But part of me thought crap, if the Giants could win with Eli... No one was loving him until the last 6 games last year. You're a wise man, must be the first name.
Joe
As good as Eli played, the D got the Jints all the way through. It was the D that limited or kept them in games. Having Waco Burress didn't hurt Eli's cause and let's not forget, a lot of bit players stepped up when called upon. Our beloved Jets can't even get starters to step up, let alone some of the back ups.( I know that's harsh) I'm not even doubting the teams heart, they just don't seem to have anyone to step up and get in everyones face. When I'm at the game, the only player jumping around trying to get the fans loud (other then fireman Ed) is Rhodes. Coles used to play with an edge, since he's come back from the Deadskins, he hasn't. FAvre jumps around like a kid when we're winning. Where's the fire when we're down?
CP or BF? I wonder if? I wonder if we had Joe Montana at his prime then we might have won the last game. If we had Joe Namath at his prime we might have won the last game. If we had Tom Brady in his first year we might have won the last game. If my aunt had balls she might have won the last game and confused everyone.
Chad is no longer here. He is in Miami. We have, for better or worse, Brett Favre. BF is 3-2 and CP is 2-4. If you really want to root for Chad, he is playing for the Miami Dolphins. You are free, in this country, to go and root for the Miami Dolphins. If you miss him he can be followed at Miamidolphins.com.
You know if i was still married to my ex-wife, i would be having chicken tonight instead of meatloaf. If i stayed single, i could be soaping up a NYU grad student with a box of potato flakes drunk on MD 20/20. Go Jets and the fantasy of revisionism!
Mr. Green T, as always thanks for putting things in perspective - and making me laugh
Favre deserves more than one game to prove himself. he did throw 6 TDs this season. the problem was play calling and stupid penalties. true, BF didn't have his best game, but Mangina/Schotty are the larger issue.
This team has too much talent, too many weapons on offense, to be that impotent.
GT, great perspective. Potato flakes?
GT- Where's the bloq on finding out more about soaping up a NYU grad student. I want in or is it just for alumni?
GT- Where's the bloq about soaping up an NYU grad student? Do you have to be an alumni to join?
I'm stunned. I'm flabbergasted. How could they lose to the Raiders, the most dysfunctional team since...since...
The team is screaming for leadership. There are natural leaders on the team, Favre, Coles, Rhodes and others, but they seem to be squashed by Mangini's controlling, insecure ways. Belichick was right, Mangini was not ready for this job. I can't tell if the poor performance from his coordinators is a reflection on his poor judgement in picking the coaches, or is he just squashing their abilities to coach. The lack of consistency, the penalties, the play calling, the lack of emotion from the players, all signs of poor leadership from up top. He supposedly has the talent he complained about not having. Are they over coaching the players? (as one sportswritier intimated a few months ago). (Mr Mangini, may I suggest reading "What Got You Here Won't Get You There")
I'm amazed, Mangini, I think, has created the first "prevent offense". And just like the prevent defense, all it does is prevents you from winning! I'm all for ball control...but NOT IN OVERTIME!!!
The stubborness in jamming those square peg-players into his very round holes, instead of modifying the holes to fit the players is the mark of a mediocre coach at best. Now he has round hole players, but they don't seem to consistantly fit!
I am SO frustrated right now. And guys, it doesn't matter who plays quarterback if the rest of the team isn't on the same page, CONSISTANTLY!!! Neither Favre nor Pennigton play on special teams or the defense. Those units are each contributing a third of the problems (hey, I think I just found my first glimpse of consistency!) Miami is just starting to discover Pennington's physical limitations. He will make a fine quarterbacks coach someday.
Eric, how much has the "mid-season" move to a new practice facility affected the routine of the players? Wouldn't it have been much better to have opened training camp there, or wait until the end of the season to move? I'm working with folks who have had to move their workspace to different buildings...it has a major effect on their productivity for quite a bit of time. I think the practice facility is more important than the stadium you play your games in...why? Because you spend way more time there.
I've downgraded my prediction from 10-6 to 8-8.
John z, mashed potatoes goes with everything.
Mike, with admission standards at an all time low, everyone gets in.
Deb, "prevent offense" is priceless. Funny, but true.
I tell ya I'm proud of how everyone on this blog is working through this...Well done!
Speaking of well done...GreenT that ledge does wonders for you! By the way GT, is your Ex still an Ex? Cause I like chicken!
3 and 3 folks! We haven't done anything that's going to eliminate ourselves by week 6 (see Cincy and Detroit). A lot of strong teams are struggling so far this year and how we play them head to head will go along way to determining playoff teams. As my old coach always said...Any given Sunday...
MR GT I hope that grad student you want to soap up with potato flakes is female you really didn't specify, sounds like you would take any grad student since you would be drunk on MD 20/20. I hope you don't follow that old sailors theme "Any port in the storm" :)
Deb: A brilliant analysis of the Jets malaise. Let me echo your points and add a few of my own.
Definitely, a lack of leadership. Where's the next Bryan Cox? I think Calvin Pace will emerge as a leader. HC's lack of emotion has spread to the players. Looks like he hired assistant coaches not strong enough to challenge his misjudgments. GM is way over his head. Tangini violates own sacred core value of putting players in best position to take advantage of their talent. Case in point: Dumping Vilma (currently tied for first in NFL with 63 tackles) because he wasn't suited for a 3-4 defense in which DL couldn't cover him. Getting legitimate NT for the line (and getting rid of D-Rob). Then getting no-show Gholston to play LB in the 3-4 scheme--and making excuses for him since wasted 6th pick is learning a new position. Think Vilma might have worked out better in a line anchored by Jenkins? And we might have done something better with the pick.
Add to that some bizarre play calling sequences. Playing scared in the OT after we had been given new life in a game we deserved to lose. Yes, the disruptive, mistimed move to Florham Park before the first game made no sense. Couldn't it have waited a month until the two-week bye period. What about the idiotic and insulting Mangini press conferences. They've long since lost their charm. Maybe he says nothing because he knows nothing.
Let's not forget 4QBs and 4 kickers at one point on the same roster--but no depth on the OL. 8 and 8 if we're lucky, And we're back to where we were when Herm bailed.
Finally: Not to mention an owner who chooses Donald Trump to be the team's corporate image. Woody Johnson has no interest in football and he spits on the Jets truest fans. Deb, it's getting damn hard to root for them.
JayM, i've never sailed into that same raft port, not that there's anything wrong with that.
Capt. Rich, she is, but she's as crazy as she is beautiful.
RC, it is rumored that the fur coat isn't a real fur worn by the Donald. PETA was threatening a boycott, until Woody pointed out, that it's just Trumps combover gone wild.
where do these punk writers question the integrity
of our quarterback who is laying it on the line every
week for this team
ebo you better stand up and straighten these guys out at your
next fancy group lunch