A lot more good than bad
Some final thoughts on the Jets 10-7 victory over the Giants:
* No one has bragging rights from a game that was 0-0 at the half. Just had to put that out there.
* Eric Mangini left open the possibility that Brett Favre could play Thursday in Philadelphia.
“I’m open to it,” Mangini said. “I just want to see how practice goes. We have a short week. The penalty issue is going to be a real focus of mine over the next couple days.”
Favre, naturally, wants to play. I’ll call it 50-50 that he does. A real limb-crawl there, I know.
* But let’s go back to the penalties. Mangini certainly did, repeatedly, and he was steamed about them to say the least. His team was penalized 12 times, 10 times – 10! – on offensive plays. False starts were an issue, though none, ironically, by Damien Woody, training camp’s poster boy for early-start lap running.
* The Jets also had more illegal formations than there are formations. Mangini said an officiating point stressed this week from the league was having the tackles "up" at the line.
“This week’s point of emphasis was to have the tackles up,” Mangini said. “That was something we knew was going to be an issue and we should have done a better job with that close to the line of scrimmage.”
* Favre played well enough, going 9-for-12 for 96 yards. He had a 49-yard touchdown pass to Jerricho Cotchery – a perfectly thrown ball down the right sideline on a pump-and-go – wiped out because of an illegal formation on Bubba Franks. A 29-yard pass to Brad Smith, who made an incredible one-handed grab with his left hand that would have put the ball at the Giants 23 in the first quarter, was negated because of, all together now, an illegal formation penalty. Favre’s best throw that counted was the 30-yarder on a deep cross to Jerricho Cotchery. Get used that play.
“We had some big plays that were unfortunately called back,” Favre said. “All we have to do is watch the film to see that we have a lot of potential. I just goes to show how little things can lead to big things. They are things that can be corrected rather quickly and easily but you can’t win making those types of mistakes.”
* I don’t know how long it took for the Jets to amass eight sacks last season – I wasn’t covering the team then and it’s late and I’m not going to look it up because it really doesn’t matter – but that’s how many the defense produced tonight. Two from Calvin Pace, who also showed up in run support. Had to like what you saw out of him, along with David Harris, David Bowens and, yes, Cody Spencer, who now has three sacks in the last two games. Kareem Brown played well again and I have to think he’s secured himself a roster spot. Not to speak for Mangini, of course. Not a great night for the secondary but two nice pass deflections by the veteran, Hank Poteat. And Kris Jenkins improves by the week. Not much of a learning curve for him, apparently.
* I’d say Bill Callahan’s offensive line more than passed this test. One sack, which occurred on Favre’s first pass attempt, charged against the starting unit is a pretty good night against a pass rush that completely embarrassed Cleveland last Monday night. D’Brickashaw Ferguson stood up just fine to Osi Umenyiora, who unfortunately got hurt in the second quarter. Speaking of Callahan, he spoke! Not tonight, but I sat down with Callahan recently and this is the story I did on him for Sunday's Newsday.
* Who do you like as the No. 2? Kellen Clemens finally got some help from his receivers, meaning they caught the ball. Clemens had by far his best game, finishing 9-for-12 for 83 yards. Ratliff, however, rebounded from his ugly interception to throw what turned out to be the game-winner, the 24-yard touchdown to Paul Raymond. Nice to see for Raymond, who probably isn’t going to make this team but at least his enduring memory from the experience won’t be – or shouldn’t be – the potential touchdown he dropped last week against the Redskins.
* No. 2 isn’t settled, how about the No. 3…receiver? Mmm. Brad Smith had two receptions for 37 yards but the most impressive catch of the night was the one mentioned above, the one-handed grab with Corey Webster in good coverage, that didn’t count. Smith just might have surpassed Stuckey tonight.
* That deep seam pass that Clemens hit Dustin Keller with in the third quarter, the 34-yarder, I think we’ll see about 25 more times this year.
* Jehuu Caulcrick, you may just make this team.
* No word on Justin Miller, who left the game late in the second quarter with what was announced in the press box as a “foot injury.” Miller sustained the injury coming up to make a tackle on Giants running back Derrick Ward. Asked for details after the game, Mangini said, “It is his foot.”
And there you have it. The Jets are off tomorrow, back at it on Monday.
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Comments (42)
Is it true Westoff is coming back to coach ST?
Let's all get ready to hear ScottP complain and say the Jets O and D line's looked terrible...actually, Scott, please fill us in with your predictions for this year's record. I'm giddy with anticipation.
BigM, yes that appears to be true. Should have more tomorrow, meaning later today.
That would be a pleasant surprise to see Westhoff on the sidelines.
I thought the defense as a whole was great tonight against the "Champs".
When Favre got hit by Osi it was due to Keller not being on that side when Brick thought he had help. So the pass protection was solid against their vaunted pass rush.We still haven't seen the ground attack from this o-line and the penalties were brutal. How Clemens overcame that series of 4 or 5 penalties and still delivered on 3 and long was reassuring. He is capable.
Did anybody else think that Mangini had lost faith in his FG kicker?
Nah Scotty boy will pull his usual 180.
Favre must be in better shape than he lets on. Did anyone check out how his left leg got completely bent backwards when he got tackled out of bounds..yet he jumped right back up running to the huddle. let's hope there are few suh 'tests' this year but he passed this one with flying colors!
The glass is 1/2 full, We have 2 weeks to tighten up the O'Line and another 2 weeks to build chemistry with Favre and the passing game. I look at last night as a 1/2 way point to opening day. Not to look past the Dolphins, but we have 3 weeks to have our sh*t together for the Patsy. WOW that should be fun. I think the only questions are depth at WR, DB, and QB.
That will haappen to Ainge, all the talk is about Clemens vs Ratliff. Will the team have to cut Ainge?
Can somone please explain why Washington isnt starting over Jones ?
All-in-all, I was happy with what I saw last night.
Other than the penalties, my main concern is OL related... depth, and more importantly, the running game.
Hard to tell yet, if TJ just isn't that good, or the OL needs more work.
Probably both.
As I expected, Pace & Jenkins look like great signings... but probably our best signing, was Callahan. He obviously knows the OL, but I suspect he's had a very positive effect on Schott Jr.
I realize it's preseason, but the offense seems more directed, & coherent, this season. Not as much emphasis on trick-plays.
Of course, Schott may be learning, but I tend to give a lot of credit to Callahan.
I'm still a bit concerned about the *other* safety spot. Smith has been ok, but he missed a couple of important tackles, last night.
I've always thought that Brad Smith would be a player, unlike many fans. My problem was always, that the coaching staff put too much on his table. He was practicing with the WRs, QBs, STs, and RBs, last season. That's just too much for a youngun.
Now, that he's focusing on just WR, we're beginning to see his value to the team.
Gotta give credit to management, for bringing in so many good players this year. Especially, at WR. There isn't one, that hasn't impressed. I've always liked Wallace Wright. Aside from his great ST play, he reminds me of Cotch... and showed some of that last night.
And lastly, thanks, Erik, for the Jehuu comment. Other than his penalty last night, he looks great, & I think he's our FB of the future.
Dear Erik,
So, we can pass block the Gints but we can't run on them very well.
It is an old cliche that the OL takes the longest to come together each year. However, if we want to give our D a fighting chance, we're going to have to hold on to the ball longer...this means running.
Thanks for corralling Bill Callahan (read your story), and he's following the company (Mangini) line alright, tight-lipped. I think his emphasis on the "little things" are his strategy for encouraging chemistry between the linemen -- they're "all in the same boat", youn'un's, and ole ones, when it comes to hand-placement technique and the like. See Faneca's comment.
When Jones starts getting some yards on a regular basis we'll know we're starting to stir the pot better.
But we're just not going to get out of those third-and-long's until we can run 5 to 6 yards on first down as a rule rather than an accidental exception.
LET'S GET SOME PUSH!
Vinny, Jones doesn't seem to be benefitting from the revamped O'line yet. I hope it's an aberration.
On our running game in the first half- Think the major part of that was our poor field position, which made it a little predictable that on first down we were going to run the ball and the giants were ready for that! Its hard to be predictable and successful in this league, especially against the Giants great defensive front.
If the running game does not look good against Miami, think it will be time to let BF to start airing it out to open up the run game. Cant wait to see our offense with coles back in there and the same with our defense with Ellis who was tied with harris last year for the most sacks!
Pace and Jenkins looked great last night!
Free Safety- biggest weakness of our defense!
Lowery looks great! Brad Smith played well too!
Questions Mr. Erik Boland
I haven't paid enough attention to where Kareem Brown has been lining up, so has he been playing DE or DT or both?
Also I havent noticed or heard Sione Pouha name being called during any of the preseason games. Has Pouha been out there and just been quiet or has he not been playing much?
Finally, do u see CJ Mosley as the Dewayne Robertson replacement?- the smaller DT thats quick and powerful!
By Tom Rock: Even without the starters, the “starting” Giants defense kept Favre and the Jets off the scoreboard in the first half. They pressured Favre consistently - on the series before his injury, Umenyiora planted himself in Favre’s chest on a play wiped out by a Jets penalty - and were able to contain the run.
The Jets had only 28 rushing yards in the first half during which Favre completed 9 of 12 passes for 96 yards. The Jets were forced to punt four times, though, converted only 1 of 5 third downs, and never got inside the Giants’ 44.
The deficiencies are obvious on the offense, but the D was everything expected ,great!
Are back up qbs are adequate.
If special teams dont get their act together along with the offenses run blocking we are looking at around a .500 season. If we get a running game going, and special teams takes it up a notch, 9 or 10 wins.
Overall a good night but definitetly some concerns !
The Giants were missing their two starters and we still did nothing offensively. The special teams tackling was terrible, and the ground game was poor. Still,we are in a much better position than last season and I will take it !
Lets hope these next couple of weeks take care of these two major problems or it will ,in my opinion, be just an average season!
Scott, you realize you can factor in both long passes by Favre that got called back because of penalties, the long TD to Cotchery and the long pass to Brad Smith. The reason you can, is because they weren't holding penalties or penalties that could have possibly altered the play.
I agree to a point, but the fruition of the entire play is all that counts.
I also agree that the passing game with Farve shows a spark, but if we cant support him with a ground game ,it could be a tough haul. Special teams must also improve.
Overall ,I am encouraged. Rome is not built in a day.
As I stated ,I expect around .500 at this point, and if the loose ends come together ,10 wins and a possible post season.
No one can argue with the article; we were unable to run on on anybody yet this pre-season. Which 2 starters were out for the Giants? I have been screaming for o-line depth, along with many others, and they are embarassing at times. If we get an injury to a starter do you want your season to ride on Bender?
I like our backups QBs much better than theirs. Clemens looked very sharp. Carr will be cut. He helped pad our sack stats holding on to the ball. He seemed "deer in headlight" looking out there. I guess he's shell shocked from Texan days.
I saw Kareem Brown playing on the inside mostly. What a nice change to have a strong front.
Osi left at the start of the second, Antonio Pierce didnt play at all, and Danny Clark ,the veteran starting weak side LB left early in the first.
Osi out for the season? Bad news for the G-men, if true.
They will find out by Monday afternoon, after the MRI. It would be a big hit for the Giants.
Brad, K. Brown, as JETVET pointed out, was mostly on the inside, though in camp we saw him outside as well. Overall, some nice depth seems to have developed on the d-line with him, Pouha and Mosley (3 tackles, 1 sack last night). But Brad, I wouldn't float Dewayne Robertson's name on here too many more times:). Most people feel about D-Rob the way commenter dmb feels about David Barrett!
To address JETVET and others: no question the Jets will have to scour the waiver wire to get some backup help on the O-line. That backup group just isn't very good right now. A young group but you'd like to see at least some progress there and there hasn't been much.
BigM, update on Mike Westhoff returning: if he receives a doctor's clearance [passing a physical] he's likely be brought back but it hasn't happened yet. Remember, Westhoff had major surgery on his leg in the offseason, the reason he stepped down after last season. Mangini hasn't made up his mind on this yet and it's not a matter of being displeased with Kevin O'Dea, who will not be fired if Westhoff returns. The preference was for Westhoff never to have left in the first place but medically Westhoff felt he had to.
Scott P, agree for the most part on your evaluation though I think the special teams problems last night were an aberration. That unit was pretty good the first two games.
TY for great reporting....seems Justin Miller is ok...any confirmation?
Erik,
Did you see Barrett playing safety in the 4th QT last night? Hope Miller is ok.
It seems that they will have a big D-line rotation. Jenkins will be there for run stopping and get a breather with Pione and Mosely. When they go "Jumbo" they will have Mosely and Brown at end. Passing plays will feature a Ellis and Kenyon C. at end. I like it. It will keep them fresh and hungry.
The jets D shows a force that we havent had in a long time! If we get a ground game going and some depth on the o-line we will be a force to be reckoned with!
Erik, I agree about your take on special teams. One bad game shouldnt be the norm.
We have alot to look forward to !
"Cliffster" , sorry to post my personal analysis and honest take on what I have observed(just my opinion) !
That has been my down fall !
Anyway ,go jets and lets get that run blocking cooking and add a little depth on the oline !
I think M.Smith is out and Caulcrick is in. Reports are Miller is fine.
I'm still waiting to see what dmb thinks of Lowery. We all know that Barrett is his enemy #1, but he's not fond of justin miller either (to put it way too nicely). I find his posts quite amusing.
I was amazed at how the "D" was swarming all over the place. That was such a pleasant surprise!
As for our running game. I'm not as worried about it as the rest of you are. IMHO, I believe Schott is trying more passing plays to get Favre accustomed to the offense. He throws in an occasional run play to keep the "D" honest. Any QB can hand the ball off. Knowing your progressions and continuing to follow your receivers for every play is more labor intensive and has a higher return for Brett's learning.
i didn't think the ST was to awful. It wasn't Westoff's ST but it was adequate enough. My biggest problem is still the lack of scoring. This team needs to score more points to be any kind of force.
I've been a big fan of Clemens. With that said, I think I'm jumping on the Ratliff bandwagon. This kid isn't afraid to play. Him watching the real Brett can only help his cause. Clemens seems to be thinking to much, whereas Ratliff is playing the game and letting the plays run themselves. That is a sign of a bigtime QB in the making. Ainge takes a knee with the best of them.
Those penalties must go. I understand the league making points of emphasis for the officials. But calling D'brick for lining up to far back. These guys are to large to be lined up perfectly. That's just plain stupidiy on the leagues part. Bubba Franks should be cut!!! I have yet to see this guy do anything worth a damn (he drops passes, lines up wrong). I like the upside of Posiak and he's done a nice job when he's played (I understand it's been against the 3's). I've been impressed with WR Henry, he's been everywhere on ST and isn't afraid to go across the middle. He's a keeper.
Bye for now.
mike, nice analysis. I hope you're right about the running game deficiencies. As far as the penalties, i like to see them in this game. Especially the dumb ones. My reasoning is, this is the time for them. It gives Mangini extra impetus to scream about focus and minimizing mistakes. I expect stupid mistakes on Thursday. If a team comes out of preseason 4-0, great execution, minimal mistakes, it makes your team lazy.
I've always loved that Teddy Atlas quote: "Success is like martini, it relaxes you." The whole team should be on edge, focused, and ready for opening day.
One overlooked positive in the Giants game was the offense led the Giants in time of possession by ten minutes. I would have liked more TD's, but it keeps our defense fresh and hopefully translates to a dominate defense.
Well, Erik, you're on my sh*t list. You agreed with Scott?
Here's where our opinions differ, Scott;
1) Our special teams unit has never been very solid the past 2 years and I don't see much change from last year.
2) You quote Tom Rock who gave, perhaps, one of the most biased reports of anything that I've ever read. Nowhere did he state that the Jets really annihilated that deficient secondary of theirs (might I add, a secondary similar to the Pats...aged and slow).
3) A solid passing attack opens up the ground game more than anything else. To say we need the ground game to boom before we see Favre boom is a little off...we see Favre booming without the running game.
4) a .500 season? How so? I can count the games on one hand that the Jets SHOULD lose this year.
5) What's with the space in between your word and the exclamation mark?
Now, to clarify something, I was merely calling you out since...to be honest...I was expecting that you'd pull a 180 and realize how completely ridiculous you had been with your statements about Favre. I guess I was wrong since, well, his performance hasn't changed your opinion at all.
I'm guessing Favre starts this week and I'm guessing he plays the first half again. It's hard to judge a QB after such a ludicrous number of penalties. Also, I'm getting the vibe that maybe the coaching staff is holding back some of the running plays. I mean, TJ looked decent last year with a worse line, either its him or there's just no emphasis on the running game. I'm guessing its the latter but you never know.
And Boland (or IRA) any updates on Carroll and where he might fit in? Or Coleman for that matter.
Also, just read Mike and Green's posts...well put...glad I'm not the only one who saw HUGE upside in the way our offense played.
Cliffy, don't be amazed that Erik had a similar take. Great minds think a like! Just having a little fun! I hope your right about the running game, but from last year, and this entire preseason, I have seen nothing! If this is playing possum the jets get an A + !
I reiterate, if the jets cant support BF with a run game, we are in trouble! No way around it. That can not be sugar coated. This is the NFL , where you need to have a sound running game unless you are the top passing offense and a scoring machine which we are far from ! From controlling the game, keeping the D fresh to giving Farve more options, especially with his getting acclimated with the offense , a running game is imperative !
Don't make excuses or delude yourself !
Scott,
Not making excuses, just observations. Think about what you've seen in the games. Very little of TJ or the running game. It's as if their trying to make you forget about TJ.
Washington has just about started or played most of the downs. Do you really believe he is our starter? Nothing against Leon, but he isn't TJ. Plus, it doesn't benefit Favre to hand the ball off and run like crazy. He needs to learn his receivers and their tendancies. There are a helluva lot more passing plays then running. Favre doesnt' need to know what hole to run through. TJ and LW aren't learning anything new here.
The only running I've noticed is with Chatman bouncing around when Clemens and Ratliff are playing. That's because these two kids need a running game to help progress.
Favre needs to learn the plays unlike the other two who need to learn how to play. Plus, watching Fanaca pull and block down field gave me warm fuzzies from when Kendall used to do that for us. We missed that last season.
You think Jehuu will make the final roster? I like him, but that would surprise me with Washington, Jones, Richardson, Chatman, and a number of tight ends and wide receivers challenging for roles. Could it come down to Caulcrick vs Musa vs Pociask?
Rotoworld has Miller out 1-3 weeks with a dislocated toe... Any other info Erik?
Ugh. Why can't he be out inevitably? I'm starting a trade for lito chant.
Erik, Clemens looks like a completely different QB in the shotgun.
Gotta be his footwork, but that issue has killed quite a few careers in this league. Hope he gets it figured out.
Crazy Eddie, I have heard the same thing regarding Miller but haven't been able to confirm which is why I haven't written it. If it is 1-3 weeks the Jets probably got off easy seeing how serious it looked Saturday when he got carted off the field. I'm guessing this means Lowery will be your starter opposite Revin in Miami.
As for the Jets record this year, I'm on record as saying 11-5 the night the Favre trade went down so I kind of have to stick with that. And believe it or not, I'm comfortable doing so.
Gentlemen, keep in mind that this is a work in progress, the running game with get better as the passing game improves.
Looking forward to the regular season, so the Monday morning blogs are important. E.Boland keep up the great work.
Mr. Erik Boland (And others who would like to comment)
Thanks for the info! Sorry for using the name I shouldn't of used, but surprisingly no one else jumped on me for that. Better comparison, doesnt CJ Mosley's body type and energy remind u of Mr. Warren Sapp. He was so happy and pumped when he had that sack Saturday that he got up and jumped, unfortunately it was right over the QB for a taunting penalty! But it was energy, playing with fun that reminded me of Sapp, something that the name i wont mention seemed to lack. This is not the body type for the NT, but good body type for a pass rushing DT!
Also, what is up with Barrett playing free safety? Where does he fit in on our defense? We all cant stand him at corner, and Lowery starting opposite Revis looks good to me, being backed up with Poteat and Coleman is fine with me!
Eric Smith really pissed me off by not being able to tackle Hixon in the middle of the field during Eli's 2min. drill. Loved Elam's fight when he rushed the QB, got flattened by the tackle, got up and sacked the QB.
So who do u see starting, or being our main Free Safety? And what position do u think is our biggest weakness on Defense?
On our running game- what do most teams do when they put in a new QB? Answer- they try to get the QB comfortable, and pick up a couple of yards on first down, meaning being predictable and running on first down. This is what we did most of the time, ran on first down, which was predictable and safe; and the Giants and Browns were expecting it so they were able to stop it! Also, penalties kept pushing us back and ruining drives, causing less running plays!
Remember Favre was only a Jet for 2 weeks when he played the Giants on saturday, he will have double the amount of time and knowledge to gel with the team and to learn more complex plays when he faces the Phins in like 2 weeks. Meaning Favre and the offense should look much better in a couple of weeks! And remember we havent seen Coles on the field playing with him in preseason either! The passing game can really open up the running game by the team being totally unpredictable!
brad smith made a circus catch and, as usual, every other catch. he's establishing good chemistry with favre. i'm predicting a 1,000 yds receiving year for smith
If Brad Smith gets 1,000 yds then it means that Coles or Cotch is out. He's a fine athlete with the ball in his hands but still not the player that those 2 are.
I realize we haven't run the ball and that might be to have Favre get more passing plays under his belt in the limited time, however, when we have tried to run it with the 1st team we have gotten nothing. It's not a TJ thing either. He's a solid runner than I was shocked got a 1,000+ yds last year behind that crap line. So it's not him it's the line play. I'm optimistic that it improves but I would be very dissapointed if he doesn't have a 1500yd season with the revamped line.