Jets season ticket holders were hit the other day with a survey sent out by the Jets in which the dreaded specter of PSLs was raised. Thanks to reader JayM for posting most of the survey in the comments section of the previous post, but here are the most relevant paragraphs:
"The Jets have taken a substantial amount of debt to finance the construction of the new $1.3 billion stadium. Like other teams that have built stadiums in the recent past, the Jets are required to pay back this construction debt quickly.
"The Jets are surveying different types and terms of Personal Seat Licenses (PSLs) as one of the ways to help achieve this requirement. A PSL is an asset, like a taxi medallion, that is purchased in addition to the ticket that gives the holder ownership of their seat. This holder can then sell the seat license in the future, including for any profit, to someone else if the holder no longer wishes to purchase season tickets."
I put in a call to the Jets this afternoon to see if the survey meant that PSL's were a foregone conclusion because no official announcement, at least in public, had been made on them relating to the new stadium, which is being built by private financing.
Here's what I was told: "We are still exploring financing options for the new stadium and have not made a decision regarding PSLs."
But PSLs are the only "financing option" that has been mentioned to this point so the conclusion you're apt to draw is probably the correct one. There, to be sure, will be more to come on this topic but I - at no charge - humbly suggest to the Jets to drop the, "A PSL is an asset, like a taxi medallion," sales pitch from future PSL justification literature.
It's insulting.
Comments (26)
Com'on Erick:
Fogetbouit, you have many, fans outside NY. LETS TALK ABOUT THE TEAM !!!!
hank/naples, I haven't heard from you here since we discussed golf courses a few weeks ago. Welcome back. Don't worry, I won't sacrifice team news to talk about other things, but I am asked about PSLs by a lot of people. It's important to season ticket holders. Hey, that's the great thing about blogs. There's room for everything, even my occasional picture postings that have nothing to do with football.
Why would you argue that the PSL being an asset is insulting? It sure helped clarify what the hell was going for me. Plus, when the Jets win the Super Bowl, that "PSL" that the person owns will sky rocket in value. Not to mention, if its used, it is a one time fee that guarantees the person/family the ownership...unless I'm mistaken about it being a one time fee. I would gladly fork over the money...football tickets are some of the most sought after tickets...not to mention season tickets...as long as that PSL isn't too steep, it seems like a win win...for those who can afford it, that is.
I hate talking about the Jets new stadium because it's in NEW JERSEY and not New York. I wanted that stadium in Manhattan in the worst way. This new stadium effectively means the Jets will play in Jersey for a long, long time. Boland, my man, enjoy the links.
As a person who has been waiting for season tickets for the last 13 years. I recently received a letter saying I'm now up to purchase seats (which I have done).
Then I get this email about a survey and I knew immediately what it was about even though I have yet to take it. I must say, it wreaks of a foul smelling substance. I know they had PSL's when the Steelers opened their new stadium and the amount was somewhere in the vicinity of $1000.00 a seat. On the other hand, they did not have PSL's when FEDEX field opened.
The fact that the JETS don't mention sharing this expense with the GIANTS is also annoying. They make it sound like their the only ones paying. I do believe that our co-occupants are the current Champs. Why not make them pay more, their share is probably worth more.
It all comes down to a basic point of what kind of product do you put on the field. I'm a die hard JETS fan who's going to drive from central va to watch this team. If you put out a winner, I'm happy to pay. If you put out a loser, I'll buy the ticket on directv and watch others pay. I think management should consider this before setting a price (if any).
IMHO
Cliff, in the comments of my previous post, a reader named Mike put it in better words than I could. In part he said, "PSL is a joke, do you think I have season tickets for an investment, NO; I have them because I am a huge JETS fan who likes to see his team in person, why would I want to sell my tickets?"
That's why I said it the way I did, using the word "insult." In the history of season tickets in this country, the concept of them being an "investment" was never raised until the Panthers started the PSL craze in the mid-90's and wanted to convince fans they were getting something more than jacked around for more money. Btw, (if you missed this in the other comments section) I wrote about Kapinos being released June 10. I can't believe you didn't see it. I know the punter battle riveted you. And do you work nights or something? Your posts mostly seem to be in the early morning hours. Just curious.
Bryan, 84 today. I was thrilled after a disgraceful 95 two weeks ago.
Mike in Va., "foul smelling substance" about says it all. Well said.
I don't understand why they can't make up the costs of the new stadium with naming rights. Why is it that the taxpayer and the fans ALWAYS need to be the ones who get screwed over? Meanwhile... draft picks who've never played a down of pro football are getting mega-deals that rival the GDP of some nations. All this crap is going to implode one of these days. Oh well.... it was fun while it lasted.
Like mikefrombumpassva I'm a die hard JETS fan and have been since I can remember (The early seventies with Namath and Maynard in Shea-when it was new!) My father was a season ticket holder back then which he gave up when the Jets moved to NJ. I was lucky enough to have a friend keep his season tickets after the move so I didn't miss to many games until I transferred colleges out of state in the late eighties. When I moved back to New York in the mid nineties I decided to get my own season tickets for the Jets and have been on the season ticket holders list for well more than a decade now. I think I started out around #17,000 and have worked my way to around #1,500 over that span. I'm fully expecting my number to come up for the new stadium opening.
It's one thing to have to wait 15 years to get the opportunity to buy season tickets and it was another thing to have to spend $50 a year just to stay on the list (I knew it was a bad sign when they recently refunded me all my years of paying that fee!) but to call this PSL an asset is as big an insult as you could possibly throw at me. Call a spade a spade! It's a fee, just like anything else. And it's playing on the dedication and loyalty of fans like me. They know that I will spend good money for this opportunity-hell I'm willing to fly up from Florida every week for the home games (I moved about eight years ago).
In the end, they don't give a dam about me because they know there are 15,000 guys behind me chomping at the bit and only 10% of them have to justify the added expense for this to be a huge success for the Jets.. This has been in the plans all along. They could have built a bigger stadium, lets say 100,000 seats, to cover the backed up demand (I'm sure the Giants waiting list is even bigger) but they didn't. Why not? To keep the demand high and ring more money out of those that could afford it or are willing to spend it. The crazy part is that if I was a Giant fan fresh off a Super Bowl victory I might even be able to swallow this a little bit easier. But, I'm a Jet fan that hasn't seen a Super Bowl since I was in diapers and my team finished a powerful 4-12 last season and I wish I could say that I feel great about having a strong upcoming season, but I can't. So why don't I just take my PSL and choke on it!!! Thanks for all your loyalty and commitment Jets organization...Your product has been pretty shitty for most of my forty years of dedication...
Ya Erik, I work at a restaurant in this small town on the Delaware in NJ. It's my summer job, so I work pretty much 50 hours a week, 5 days a week...its a pain, but I'm making way more than most of my friends at school.
Anyways, I'm surprised I missed the post too, must've been one of those rapid fire or really long posts you had. It's tough reading them thoroughly after work. Anyways, the only reason I brought up the PSL's being an investment was because, throughout my education in finance, I've seen similar examples to this. Plus, I like playing Devil's Advocate (see the comment section that turned into "let's bash Cliff cause he's speaking different"). So here it is. If a family chooses to purchase the PSL, the way I understand it, they pay this very steep price and are allowed to decide what happens to those seats as long as they would like. What this means is that, in the event that they chose to sell or get rid of their tickets, they don't only "submit" them to the Jets, they are allowed to, essentially, put them up for bidding. So now, that 20k or 30k that was spent initially now has the potential (when the Jets win the superbowl) to turn into a significant gain from an investment standpoint. So, while you may take a huge financial hit right off the bat, the tickets wont ultimately cost more once the PSL has been paid...
That being said, the PSL sounds like a very crude and completely improper way for the team to raise funds. In an ideal world the Jets would offer a PSL to certain owners who would purchase it knowing that they can sell their ticket ownership at a later date for a larger amount of money.
Talked to a co-worker with Steeler tickets. Here's how it went down for them. About $1500.00 a seat, he can sell the PSL and assign the seats to whomever he wants for whatever he wants. Exception here is, he cannot sell the PSL from a date in Oct. until season end. Seats in section are currently being sold for $30,000 a seat.
Investment? Maybe. We are talking the Steelers here. Let's not forget they contend a hell of a lot more then our beloved JETS. Also, the Steelers play in their stadium exclusively. The new stadium is suppose to hold roughly 82,000. The cost of the stadium is 1.3B. If the JETS charge a $1,000 each seat and the GIANTS charge the same. The stadium will be paid for and both teams will pocket money. Let alone naming rights. Is it fair for us the fan to pay this much? I don't know. I know, I don't like it.
Cliff, no problem with the "devil's advocate" approach. Keeps discussions, here and in life in general, interesting. And I respect the working through school approach, too. I worked as a host seating people at ESPN Zone in Times Square when I was in school in the city and that was how I learned to dislike tourists.
My overriding problem with PSLs is that there's no concrete benefit to anyone other than the teams charging for them. The whole "ownership" aspect of a seat, well, there was a name for that once. It was called having season tickets. The concept of people paying for the right to purchase those tickets is borderline extortive.
Not too shabby, Boland, not too shabby. Training camp can't get here soon enough though.
See, that's exactly how I truly feel...but to be Devil's Advocate, having a PSL would be the equivalent of the government using Tolls to pay for bridges and roadways...the people who uses the stadium, pay for the stadium. However, instead of just jacking ticket prices to incredibly horrendous heights, the team chooses to give people the ability to turn around and possibly (if they sell at the right time) make money on their PSL purchase.
I'm lucky that my restaurant is a smaller one and 90% of the weekly crowd are people who have come before / 50% are regulars so I rarely deal with tourists/foreigners (you know, the 10% tippers). I thought about hosting, but I don't have the patience...people flat out annoy me sometimes "is my table ready" every five seconds would drive me mad....I guess that's why you're able to do this blog, huh.
The Jets want us to feel that we are part owners of the team with PSL's...Isn't that what i do every year paying for my tickets...
PSL's as an investment, I don't know if this is true but isn't dallas only talking about a 30 year term...
And before anyone talks about being able to buy ticketrs for other events, remember that a giant fan also owns that seat...
My 30th year as a season ticket holder this year...
The last time the Jets won the super bowl I was in diapers, the next time they win I will be in dipers again...
Erik,
I wrote the posting about getting season tickets the other day before I received the email about the survey.
The issue to me is the dissappointment of waiting for 13 years to get season tickets, then finding out I'll only be able to afford them for 2 years. It's not just the PSLs, but also the fact that the ticket prices will be also be going up by 50% to 75%. This was also in the survey.
Basically, the Jets are going to continue to churn out a junk product where the only concern is maximizing profit.
Add this to the final abandonment of the Long Island fan base with the move to Jersey and almost everyone I know are done with the Jets.
Erik,
Thanks for finally posting something on this issue.
We fans literally have no voice to complain to management...and while I understand that as a journalist you are a 'neutral' party, you still have more of a voice than we do. I appreciate your opinions on this issue. In general, though, my feeling is the media fails to recognize and question an organization's allegiance to its fans?
My father has had Jets season tickets since the Shea Stadium days. We might have to give up our seats because we won't be able to afford the PSL.
The fans are the reason why these guys make millions of dollars and the billion-dollar stadiums are always filled. Without the fans, there would be no NFL. And as a thank-you, they continue to raise ticket prices, and now charge insanely high PSL's.
Why are the fans always the last thing on everyone's (owners, players, journalists, etc.) mind? We make the NFL what it is today.
Erik, I too have recently come to the top of the list for season tickets, but have not yet received the survey. In a couple of years, I will need to make a decision about this. If the Jets want us to believe that a PSL is some kind of investment, can you ask them these investment oriented questions:
1. If this is supposed to be an investment, will there any kind of prospectus?
2. Do they have any information on how PSL values have performed at other NFL stadiums over time?
3. Would the PSL expire when a new stadium is built?
4. If a PSL is truly ownership of the right to buy tickets, does this mean that it will not be possible for rowdy fans to lose their right to buy season tickets?
5. If a PSL truly does have intrinsic value, 3rd parties should be willing to provide financing with the PSL as collateral. Will there be 3rd party financing available?
6. With any asset, there needs to be a fair opportunity to buy and sell that asset (known as liquidity). What assurances do I have that the market for PSLs will be a liquid market? In other words, if the value of the PSL skyrockets, what assurances do I have that the Jets will not price me out of the ticket market in order to purchase back my PSL at below market prices?
7. Most corporations finance major construction by borrowing the money from banks, or issuing bonds. Since the Jets are trying to avoid this by issuing PSLs, they must feel that this method of fincancing is less expensive to them. Since it is less expensive to the Jets, that must mean my expected rate of return would be less than that of a bond holder. Additionally, due to the liquidity issue raised above, wouldn't it be ridiculously foolish to refer to this as any kind of investment?
Since the value of the alleged asset is controlled by the Jets (i.e. raising the ticket prices will lower the value of a PSL), there is no real value to it.
You are right Erik, it is insulting to refer to it as anything but extortion.
Now I understand why the Jets never cared about abandoning NY. It seems a lot of the posters here are not only not from New York, they aren't even from New Jersey! Fly in from Florida, drive from Virginia? Holy draw play on 3rd and long!
I gave up my tickets two years ago when the Jets permanently ditched New York by signing that 99 year lease to remain in Giants Stadium. It took 8 hours to attend a game and that didn't even include tailgating. It felt like another day of work to make that commute. Trust fund baby, silver spoon Woody promised to get the Jets their own stadium in NY when he bought the team. To stay in NJ, share a stadium with the Giants, rip away the HQ from Long Island, and then ask for a PSL is insanity. I hope they at least throw in a free Coke with that PSL for all you season ticket holders!
Now I understand why the Jets never cared about abandoning NY. It seems a lot of the posters here are not only not from New York, they aren't even from New Jersey! Fly in from Florida, drive from Virginia? Holy draw play on 3rd and long!
I gave up my tickets two years ago when the Jets permanently ditched New York by signing that 99 year lease to remain in Giants Stadium. It took 8 hours to attend a game and that didn't even include tailgating. It felt like another day of work to make that commute. Trust fund baby, silver spoon Woody promised to get the Jets their own stadium in NY when he bought the team. To stay in NJ, share a stadium with the Giants, rip away the HQ from Long Island, and then ask for a PSL is insanity. I hope they at least throw in a free Coke with that PSL for all you season ticket holders!
I’m on the waiting list and now probably will never be able to afford season tickets by the time i’m up. My question is for those on the waiting list, when your time is due for tickets will you also have to but someone else’s inflated PSL from the previous owner? Does the price revert back to the original cost or are you held hostage to the price demand of the previous owner?
Sorry that was "buy someone else's inflated..."
What seems to be the case is that the list will serve merely as a holding place to put you in touch with the people who are selling their PSL...I don't think there's anyway of avoiding having to buy the person's PSL once it has been issued...
I really liked PSL Bull's post...I wouldn't mind seeing that as an op-ed piece in the paper.
Right on MAC. The dream is fading as the reality for me is setting in. I was willing to go a long way and spend a lot of money and time to support the Jets from a far. But this is the straw for me...
I agree that PSL Bull@#$& had an excellent post that illuminates the fraud being perpetrated by the JETS. Erik is right to call this insulting. They are absolutely leveraging/extorting the fans for money.
The fact that they would compel fans, that have supported this team financially as season ticket holders for decades, to pay an additional fee just for the right to keep giving the Jets money is the height of shamelessness.
Hey Jets if it's such an advantage having the PSL why don't you just let the fan decide whether or not we want to invest in it? I have a feeling that not too many will be lining up offering their money even though some morans think it's a, "win win".
Cliff, if that's true it may be the end of the waiting list, because as bad as it is now the eight years or so till i'm up, will be like buying an overpriced house.
It's a sad day for the true fan who wants to see the Jets live. All you'll get in the stadium is row after row of passive fans who are more interested in the specials in the upscale bistro than on the field. And that sucks.
My suggestion is spend a couple grand today on gallons of Oil...lodge them in your house and then, when your time comes, sell the Oil and you'll have, maybe if you're lucky, half the value of the PSL. Prices won't inflate forever in the U.S. or abroad...but the PSL's won't be cheap...especially if corporations start getting ahold of them...it'll be like spending a grand per ticket then...