It's a funtastic time here at Giants Stadium... There are 51 rookies and first-year players attending the two-day camp (they only lift weights tomorrow) -- eight draft picks, 21 tryouts and the rest free-agent signees.
Two guys of note: Hofstra QB Anton Clarkson and Hofstra OL Jed Prisby. Clarkson played in 10 games as a senior with the Pride, throwing for 1,881 yards; Prisby was a four-year left tackle.
Clarkson is one of three QBs at camp -- Wisconsin's John Stocco and Andy Collins from Occidental College are also here -- and Clarkson is hoping to at least catch some attention, if not a job.
"I'm just trying to play football as long as I can and stay out of a shirt and tie," he said. He was born in Regina, Saskatchewan, though he grew up in Souther California. The Canadian Football League is an option if no NFL teams call.
Prisby was literally the last man into camp -- his agent called him last night to tell Prisby that the Giants were short an O-lineman because undrafted free-agent signee Joel Clinger, a guard out of Missouri, failed his physical. So Prisby hopped in his car from Hempstead at 4:30 this morning and got out on the field.
He's trying out at left guard here after trying out for the Bucs last week at center. "I think having the experience last week helped. I know how vital it is to have that playbook down and assimilate what they give you real fast," Prisby said.
That's the local update. As for the on-field stuff this morning, it's always the skill position guys who get noticed -- RB Ahmad Bradshaw showed nice explosiveness, WR Steve Smith made a leaping catch that caught TC's attention, and UDFA WR Brandon London used his size well. He's 6-4, 210, out of UMass.
Smith and first-round pick Aaron Ross lined up against each other in a few sets. Smith said he wants to reminisce with Ross about the USC-Texas national championship game from two years ago.
LB Zak DeOssie and DT Jay Alford worked on their long-snapping. Alford did some short-snapping at Penn State, according to Coughlin.
Ross and Bradshaw fielded punts and got a good taste of the winds around the stadium -- Ross muffed one and both had trouble judging the ball.
That's all for now. They're back on the field at 3:20.
Comments (18)
Joe; I guess we just have fundamental different views.
To say Brady Quinn is remotely as good as Eli is a joke. In about fifty different aspects.
My point of the restructuring of Eli's contract was that they either re-signed him after the 07 season or activated this clause. I don't think you cut a top 10 QB. And yes, statistically speaking, he is a top 10 QB.
I remember what they said about Phil Simms and how we wanted to show him the door in his first couple of seasons. This kid has had his growing pains, no doubt about it.
Bottom line is you cannot put it all on him. The Giants defense was like 24th or worse last year. That means everytime he gets the ball we are in horrible field position or down 7 points.
The comeback wins against Denver, Philly, @ Dallas, @ Seattle (which was botched by 3 missed field goals) have all shown he can rally his team.
I'm glad Plax is in town. Eli needs to be able to trust his WR's. I'm hoping Shockey comes too. We've tried the U thing and they come in shape, but not on the same page.
I agree Eli is not where I was hoping he would be or we all thought he might be. But, lets give him a more aggressive and improved Defense, an offense that is in sync, and a couple more seasons for this top 10 QB to become a top 3-5 QB.
KC -
Like I said, I hope I am wrong because if I am not, it will be pretty miserable watching games next year. I really hope you are correct about Eli.
As you can probably tell, I don't know much about the game so please forgive my ignorance. Would it be too much for you to educate me on the "fifty different aspects" that lead you to believe that Manning is a better QB than Quinn?
Let the education begin:
He has improved each season....
Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate
2004 New York Giants 9 7 197 95 48.2 1043 5.29 52 6 9 13/83 11 4 55.4
2005 New York Giants 16 16 557 294 52.8 3762 6.75 78 24 17 28/184 49 8 75.9
2006 New York Giants 16 16 522 301 57.7 3244 6.21 55 24 18 25/186 33 8 77.0
College - Eli:
2003 275 441 3600 62.4 8.16 59 29 10 19 148.09
College - Brady:
Brady Quinn, N Dame 289 467 3426 61.9 7.3 37 7 31 146.65
Both Seniors. Quinn played for ND while Eli had Ole Miss. Better rating, more yards on less attempts...ESPN.com.
Point KC.
KC -
Geez, I look at those numbers and I think you made my point for me. Let's see -
2007 QB rating of 77....puts Manning 18 out of 32. Rivers (the guy we traded) smoked Manning with a 92 QB rating. Furthermore, Manning barely beat out Roethlisberger (who had a 75 QB rating) even though Roethlisberger was hurt for most of the season.
With regard to College numbers they look very similar (is this the 50 different aspects?). Furthermore, I think I would take Quinn's numbers over Manning's given number of big games he has been in and the level of competition he faced.
I think objective analysis of these numbers would lead someone to conclude there appears to have been no basis for the 2004 trade.
Others care to weigh in on this?
John -
Thanks for informing me that I'm stupid and telling me to shut up. It really was a refreshing breath of fresh air here.
You should be careful of insulting people and intimidating them in a public forum.
Joe; who do you think had a better supporting cast: Brady Quinn at Notre Dame or Eli Manning at Ole Miss? As far as level of competition, Eli played in the SEC, the hardest division in College Football.
As far as Roethlisberger goes...you can't compare his stats b/c he didn't play a full season.
Rivers is a good player, I'm not saying he isn't. But Joe, he's not asked to carry his team, he has a good defense, he has the MVP to hand off too. Not as much is asked of him as Eli. Eli has had many games where he has had to bring us back. How many come from behind wins does Rivers have?
We can go in circles, but remember what was said about Phil Simms and he turned out ok...Eli will be fine buddy.
I totally agree with John on all of his points about Eli and if you do play Madden'06 Eli puts up numbers and more.
Furthermore, there was not one game last year whne the Giants were clicking on ALL cylinders as a team. Shockey said, "Nobody can beat us when we play our game" and he took alot of heat for that from the media. Shockey, myself and many other fans really do believe that.
The closest they came was during the 2nd half against host Dallas. In that game, they received alot of hand-outs from the Cowboys on dumb mistakes.
But being an underachieving football team is what we have come to expect from these Giants. They tend to fare better when the stakes and expectations are both low and both are that right now.
Listen guys; we can go around and around about this Eli thing.
I think its imporant to point out that this is just a point of view forum and there is no reason to get personal.
I respect Joe for his points and view on Eli. I hope he is wrong, but only time will tell. I don't think Eli's numbers on a video game matter in the real world....I wish they did.
I do hope we have a good season. I've been a Giants fan for as long as I can remember. Growing up in Maine, we have a ton of New England fans. Nothing I would like more than to beat them on the last game of the regular season. Now that is being an optimist.
"That's all for now. They're back on the field at 3:20."
Well?
Then what happened?
Arthur?
You there?
Don't make us beg.
-Big BB
Hmmmm.....
Where to start:
1) Thanks KC for the return to civility on the site. I also respect you and your point of view in spite of the fact that I strongly disagree with it.
2) Yes the SEC is a tough division. But how about the media pressure and spotlight of being at ND? In addition, since ND is an independent with a huge TV contract it plays the toughest teams from most of the conferences every year. Annual gigs include Michigan and USC.
3) Not sure how to respond to the comment made about how well Eli does on Madden 06. I do agree that the Gints seem to do well when expectations are low. Unfortunately I think this time they are low for a reason.
Joe; just tell me you are a Giants fan....you seem like a hopeless romantic, just like the rest of us. How about Shockey? You must love him. Thank god we have Shockey. Heart and soul of the Giants.
While it looks like there are more holes on the roster this year than last, this team may very well 'over perform' and outperform last year's team. Why? The coaching.
I’ve got a good feeling about Steve Spagnoulo whereas Tim Lewis made me physically ill last year.
The big question mark remains on the offense.
It was unfortunate that Charlie Hufnagel fell flat on his face last year, but I suspect it had more to do with his supporting staff - namely Kevin Gilbride.
I'm not into conspiracy theories - I don't believe in UFO's; the moon landing was for real; and JFK was shot by Lee Harvey. But I know a rat when I see one and Gilbride smells like a rat.
Here's the situation: Gilbride is a former head coach and former offensive coordinator in the NFL - now relegated to QB coach. Why would he want to shine as a QB coach? So he can work his way 'up the ladder' in the twilight of his career? No thank you, sir! He doesn't want to be a QB coach and he certainly doesn't want rookie offensive coordinator Hufnagel to succeed - eliminating any chance for his promotion within the organization. Gilbride knows he can get a lot further a lot faster with treachery than with hard work. So what does he do? As little as possible. He consoles Eli between possessions and keeps any insightful observations that he sees from the sidelines to himself when he should be helping Hufnagel who is up in the booth. He's a Judas, I tell you.
Sad thing is: His plan worked. I nearly choked on my own vomit when I saw that Gilbride was promoted after last season! Promoted? For what? Seems like there was a lot of work going on behind the scenes to promote his own career over the success of the team.
Don't believe these things could happen in the NFL? Ask Dan Reeves about his buddy Mike Shanahan (a.k.a. the mile high rat).
And yet the offense will be better this year because of addition by subtraction. We won't have such an insidious organizational structure and the new QB coach will do what Gilbride refused to do: his job.
This will be a good year for Eli and the team as a whole will take a huge step forward. 10-6.
-Big BB
KC -
I am a lifelong Giants fan. Suffered through the dark period of the 70s, enjoyed the wonderful times in the 80's and have ridden the rollercoaster that has been this team since we last won the Superbowl in 1991.
Yes, I think Shockey is a great player and trading up to get him was one of the better moves Accorsi made during his career. However, I think Shockey has a problem with authority and that can be damaging to a team. He has also has been injured quite a bit over the last few years, and I wonder how many miles he has left given his style of play.
As you can tell, I am more than a little upset by the trade we did for Manning in 2004. I think history will say that the trade set the franchise back at least six seasons. That doesn't sit well with me. It also doesn't sit well with me that ownership appears to have cleverly set up TC to be the fall guy this season. TC's firing will be another distraction from the real story.
Also, someone asked earlier why a player's contract matters. In a salary cap world, the biggest mistake you can make is to pay a huge salary to a player who isn't producing.
BB; that is one of the most rediculous thins I have ever read. A conspiracy theory to try to sabotage the season? Gilbride got promoted for various reasons. One, he was and is very close to Eli. He understands what he sees and is viewed as a very good offensive teacher in the NFL circle....he dramatically improved Buffalo when they had Drew Bledsoe. The run and shoot in Houston speaks for itself. Hufanagel had his chances. Too many times the players spoke out. Too many times the game planning didn't change quickly enough. He didn't involve Shockey down the field at all. Bill Walsh was famous for saying to his coaches, get the playmakers the ball. Shockey, Plax, Tiki, all have to have their touches. Manning also is a reason Hufanagel didn't return. He didn't show enough improvement every year to the Giant's brass's liking.
Joe; I completely disagree with your assumption that the trade for Eli caused us to digress 6 years. He is a franchise QB, who has proven to get better each year, and over the course of his career will turn out to be the best QB we've had in our franchise. Judge the trade when Eli retires, not now. As for drafts that have set us back, how about Ron Dayne? Joe Montgomery? William Joseph? Brian Alford? Tim Lewis? Jarrod Bunch? Tyrone Wheatley? Those are absolute failures. Montgomerey was a 2nd round pick, the rest were 1st rounders that were horrible picks. These guys never materialized into anything, that is a reason for the setback. Let me remind you that we chose Ron Dayne over Sean Alexander in the same draft! Our scouting dept failed us for years. That is why we have had miserable seasons in the past.
Uh KC,
While John (not Charlie – my bad) Hufnagel was the offensive Tiki Barber set a franchise rushing record two years in a row, and the Giants became only the fifth team in NFL history to have five different players score at least seven touchdowns. (Tiki Barber, Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress, Amani Toomer and Brandon Jacobs).
So how is that not ‘getting the playmakers the ball’?
I’m not saying that Hufnagel was the answer but he didn’t have a chance with Gilbride swirling around overhead like a vulture.
Also, when a Quarterback doesn’t improve as quickly as one would have hoped – you would fire the offensive coordinator and reward the QB coach? How does that make any sense? Manning has very correctable issues with basic mechanics. I would have fired Gilbride a long time ago.
Gilbride failed in Houston and he failed in Buffalo and he failed in San Diego. His only success came in Jacksonville and history has proven that the expansion teams of that era were overloaded with choice talent from the rest of the league.
If it smells like a rat, and it looks like a rat…
-Big BB
KC -
With regard to our terrible record in the first round I couldn't agree more. I agree that this is the main cause of the problem (I incude Eli in this list by the way even though we technically didn't draft him).
Readers should ask themselves this question: Why have the Giants first round picks been so bad when our second round picks have generally been very good? Second round picks have included Strahan, Snee, Umenyiora, Toomer, Barber, Cornelius Griffin (who we unfortunately allowed Washington to sign) and Joe Jurevicius (who we also foolishly let go).
I'd be interested in hearing theories as to why we have seen this pattern.
The comments on Eli are crazy. Eli has had a short career so far and very successful. Can you think of other QB's that have been in the league 3 years and had his numbers? Playoff appearances? He is young, learning, and gaining experience. I like Eli, but I wish he showed more passion during the game.
Joe;
My theory on our draft history is that the luck in the 2nd round is purely circumstantial. There are many teams, i.e. the Patriots, Cowboys, and even the Eagles which draft well in the first few rounds. I can understand a bust here or there, but every other year is unacceptable. Lately, we have had better drafts. Kiwanuka is a player, if Moss stays healthy, could be a player, I liked this years draft. I think the Ross kid is a player and is going to help out with our return game. Smith is going to be the next Amani Toomer. Deossie allows us to cut Ryan Keuhl who we pay a hefty salary for as a long snapper.
I am surprised that the Giants brass doesn't see more of a glaring need with our scouting dept. The year we drafted Ron Dayne in front of Sean Alexander still haunts me.
Could you imagine a backfield with Tiki Barber and Sean Alexander? Wow.
William Joseph was drafted for his potential. What a bust he is.
I really would have liked us to try to move one of our Defensive Ends to another team for help at LB, CB, or WR, or even a LT. I wouldn't mind getting rid of either Tuck or Osi. We would still have one left over and have Kiwanuka on the other side once 92 is gone.