DEBATE: Opinions on the Yankees-Pettitte stalemate.
ANTHONY: Yankees are being Pett-y
Andy Pettitte doesn't want to take a pay cut from 16 million dollars to 10. Who would? I know I wouldn't.
I know what you're saying: with the shape the economy is in, Pettitte should be happy to play for 10 million, so many people are out of work, blah blah blah.
That's the easy knee-jerk reaction. But forget about the dollar amount. Let's say your boss wants to give you a nearly 50 percent pay cut to do the same job. Would you?
Oh, and as an added kicker, your boss just spent nearly half a billion dollars to hire three other guys. But there's no money left for you.
Bottom line: If the Yankees want Pettitte back, by now they know what his price is. They have the ability to meet that price or get close to it.
If they don't want him back, then pull the offer and move on. But before they do that, maybe they should think about whether their rotation is really deep enough to sniff at a No. 4 or 5 starter who won 14 games in an off year.
I don't think they should think that; history has proven you need all the good starting pitchers you can get. Is A.J. Burnett injured yet? Is it a given that Chien-Ming Wang will come back from his fractuered foot? Can Joba Chamberlain make 25 starts without getting injured?
Bring back Andy Pettitte.
JIM: Does Andy really want to leave on this note?
We've always thought Andy Pettitte was different than your typical professional athlete, but now he's making us wonder.
Hey, paycuts stink. We get that.
But you've told us before how you've already made more money than you could ever spend, and your family is set for generations and generations.
We liked that you understood and respected your good fortune. So get over this small bump, swallow your pride and take $10 million.
You've said time and again you wanted to be a Yankee, to finish a Yankee, to pitch in the new Yankee Stadium and call it a career. You even said you thought it would be an easy negotiation, because you want to return and the Yankees want you back.
You know what this is beginning to remind us of? The way Bernie Williams' career with the Yankees ended. And I bet deep down he wishes he swallowed his pride and accepted that minor-league invite because he still wants to play.
Do you really want to have regrets, Andy, when the $$ is essentially meaningless?
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Comments (25)
A 37.5% pay cut is not "nearly" a 50% pay cut.
andy's situation has nothing to do with the economy or what the yanks are paying younger players this winter. andy is 37, give me one other team that is giving out 16 mil salaries to 37 year old pitchers coming off a bad season.
A 40% pay cut sounds about fair to me.
Would I be happy if I got a pay cut to do the same job that I've been doing? No, absolutely not. But you can't compare professional sports to my job.
In a layman's job, you're worth more as you get older, because you're more seasoned and have more experience. In sports, though? Once you're past your prime, your value diminishes -- as it should. You can't produce as good of a product, so it's only natural that your pay should go down.
Add that to the fact that he's coming off a bad season, and the whole HGH mess... and the fact that, unlike MY job, Andy's being offered 10 million for one year -- more money than most of us will see in our lifetimes -- yeah, I don't think I'm being hypocritical when I say that Andy should take the money and shut up. As Jim pointed out, if anyone's the hypocrite here, if anyone's the liar, it's Andy himself.
Not only did Pettitte win 14 games he also lost 14 games
which makes him at best a mediocore pitcher. $10 million for someone who
is just average, not to mention who the Yankees stuck by when
his steroid use was an issue is in my opinion overpaying.
I can see the Yankees going to $12 million, but that's that. And that's out of the gooness of their hearts. No one would pay that kind on money on the open market for him. So $12 million is Derek Lowe money. Take it or leave it.
why can't both sides split the differece go for 12.5 or 13.0 with incentives i can't believe this is happening.
why can't both sides split the differece go for 12.5 or 13.0 with incentives i can't believe this is happening.
My suggestion to Andy...accept the Yankees $10 million offer and file a petition with Congress asking for a $6 million bail-out.
Listen people there is a reason why he is getting a pay cut of 37.5% it honestly should be 50%. Why you ask?
Because his performance allows him only to get 10 million. If performed like Mike Mussina we would not being having this conversation he would have got his 16 million. this is another example as a society how we spoil are proffesional athletes.
Loyalty is a special part of being a true Yankee. The offer of $10M has been on the table for nearly a month. I say let him go wherever he wants. The Yankees do not need to beg this guy to pitch. They will not regret letting him go. Matter of fact he can go to beantown and see how well he does with left field.
As much as I like Pettite he showed last year that he is a mediocre starter. Let some of the young guys battle it out for the fifth spot. Let's move on already!
The Yankees paid him last year for being a good Yankee. Thats it, there is not another team in baseball that feels he's worth 10mil . enough already, the Yankee's covered him pretty nicely with the whole "steroid debacle" if i'm going to pay 12-14mil, i'll take a flyer on a guy like Sheet's, who when he's right, is filthy. Yeah, he gets hurt, so does Petite.
$10 million is fine for being a fourth or fifth starter, If somebody else wants to pay Andy $16 million and put him in the front end of the rotation, Andy should jump at the chance to prove he still belongs there. I don't think anyone but the Yankee$ would be willing to invest more than $10 million in him. So, Andy, if you think you've got a year left, pitch in pinstripes for $10 million, and set aside your final year's pay to cover the kids' college educations. You'll survive, and the fans will love you for it.
The Yankees paid him last year for being a good Yankee. Thats it, there is not another team in baseball that feels he's worth 10mil . enough already, the Yankee's covered him pretty nicely with the whole "steroid debacle" if i'm going to pay 12-14mil, i'll take a flyer on a guy like Sheet's, who when he's right, is filthy. Yeah, he gets hurt, so does Petite.
The Yankees paid him last year for being a good Yankee. Thats it, there is not another team in baseball that feels he's worth 10mil . enough already, the Yankee's covered him pretty nicely with the whole "steroid debacle" if i'm going to pay 12-14mil, i'll take a flyer on a guy like Sheet's, who when he's right, is filthy. Yeah, he gets hurt, so does Petite.
I have read all these comments and I am saddened by them. First of all if the Derek Lowe thing, Lowe's agent Scott Boras is asking for 16 million! And this for a guy who has compiled numbers in the weaker of the two leagues. The next free agent pitcher is AJ Burnett who scored an 80 million dollar 5 yr deal an avg of 16 million per yr. This is a guy who is 32 yrs old and only won more than 12 games in a season in his profesional career! Additionally compare his numbers to those of Pettittes last season: Burnette 18-10 4.07 era. Pettitte 14-14 4.54 era. That is a difference of 4 wins which Pettitte would have had if the Yankees could have manufactured runs last yr which also means 4 less losses for a record of 18-10. To further my point is the difference in ERA which is less than half of run seperating the two. This is not all that different. My next point is in the form of a question. What is the Yankees goal year in and year out? Winning in the Post season! Andy is one of the greatest post season pitchers of all time and he furthered his legacy by pitching a gem against the Indians t]2 seasons ago. Take a look at our Post season starters for this upcoming season: Sabathia ERA over 7.00, Wang (If you have been watching over the past 3 yrs I dont even need to put the numbers in there he was so awful) Burnette, well he suffered through Pavano syndrom during the Marlins run to the Series. Chamberlain wasnt Brilliant in relief against Cleveland either. Pettitte is the only legitimate big game starter the Yankees have and should offer 14 million to return. I am sure the people telling Andy to take a walk are the same people who wanted Mussina run out of town but look what happened last yr
Sorry Anthony, I can't buy the whole "50 or 37 percent paycut" argument.
Call me "blah, blah, blah" but what the hell is 10 million instead of 16 million to a guy already sitting on millions at the age of 37?
Give me a friggin break.
Pettite can shove it up his greedy Texas arse.
Give me a young kid willing to pitch for 1 million instead of 1.6 million.
Give me a never has been wannabe willing to pitch for 100k instead of 160k.
My point is, the Yanks can spend the 6 million scouring the country giving THOUSANDS of pitchers the chance to replace him. And for that kind of RESEARCH money I'll bet they find more than one replacement.
Hell, I'll give it a shot for 100 bucks instead of 160 bucks.
Petitte's intransigence is INDEFENSIBLE and downright sickening here.
Thanks for the memories Andy....but.... may you NEVER pitch in the new Yankee Stadium, you greedy son of an armadillo.
The Yanks will live without you.
Just my opinion......
Andy, you should pitch for free. You should be ashamed for accepting the full 16 million dollars last year. After the Allstar game, you stunk. Take the 10 million and be greatful you got that much. You will be pitching in the new stadium. Keep in mind, if you pitch great, you might get 16 million in 2010.
Anthony, even RIEBER GROUPIE is silent here! Like someone else said, you cant compare my job to a Major League Pitchers job.
Athletes want outragious sums of money and say we make this money bc we do what you cant. Fine. But once you cant do what you used to be able to do, you cant expect to make the same amount of money.
Do you think the Yankees are wrong not to offer Giambi the same contract they offered him 7 years ago? Athletes get older and their value decreases.
By your way of thinking, athletes would never ever take a paycut and that makes zero sence. C'mon.
We don't need Andy Petite (pitched like a girl during the second half of the season) and who lost 14 games. But we do need Oliver Perez who is younger and has a better up swing and will be around for a few years. Forget Andy, he will not help us down the road!
In my opinion Andy has put himself in a really bad spot. If the Yankees crack and give him more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and he sucks or even goes 14-14 again. The fans will be all over him. From what im reading almost everyone is saying let him go. And I agree. He has already said he has plent of money. So he should just thake the 10mil. go out and pitch is ass off and the fans will love him for it. If he is such a team and Yankee guy, give them the home team discount. Now that sounds crazy, 10mil a discount.
Mike C,
Derek Lowe: He's looking for around 15 mil. Mets offered around 12 mil. He will most likely get around 13-14 mil. He is a #2 type starter. Pettitte would be a #4/5 starter. A #2 starter is worth 13-14 mil a year. A #4/5 starter is NOT. Especially one that went 2-7 in last 2 months of year w/ ERA over 6! He put these stats up KNOWING it was a contract year for him.
A.J. Burnett: Agree the Yanks may have overpaid for him. However, IF he stays healthy he can be a VERY overpowering pitcher. Pettitte CANNOT, even when healthy. Take a look at A.J.'s AVG against and SO/9. They are among tops in the league over past 3 years. To use your own logic, lets give Burnett around 5 more wins since the Jays had a worse offense than the Yanks. Lets see...that would make A.J. 23-5 last year! Also, how can you say a difference of .50 in ERA is not a big difference. Post All-Star Burnett was 8-2 w/ an ERA of 2.86. Pettitte was 4-7, 5.35. I could go on...
Playoff starters:
-Burnett never played in playoffs.
-Agree C.C. has not been great in playoffs
-Wang in 2007 was horrible. Prior to that he had 2 good starts in '05 and '06 in his only other playoff games.
-Joba had 2 games in '07 and his stats actually weren't that bad considering he was a rookie and pitched in the 'bug game'. Plus he is now a starter, not a reliever.
All things considered, seems like the only one who hasn't been at least decent in the playoffs has been C.C...who is one of the best pitchers in the game. I don't see this trend continuing for C.C. w/ the Yanks.
Finally, to really put it into perspective: Randy Johnson just signed a contract for 8 mill, Smoltz is rumored to be signing for 5 mil, and Giambi ( I know he is not a pitcher) has signed for 5 mil. ALL PAY CUTS! Plus, Johnson and Smoltz are future Hall of Famers and both are currently better than Pettitte. Simply put, Pettitte is LUCKY the Yanks offered him 10 mil. No one else will come close. At best he can get around 7 mil...if that.
PK
I appreciate your input but I still have to disagree, First Lowe is not a Number 2 type starter. He pitches in an inferior league and does not face a DH! Look no further than both Pettitte and Clemens numbers pitching for the Astros. They were both phenominal! Additionally even compare C. C. numbers from that of the Indians to the Brewers and there is no comparison. If Andy were pitching in the national league last season I guarantee we would not be having this discussion because the Yankees would have went after him hard core. You also bring uo strike out numbers comparing Pettitte and Burnette. Well using that logic how is Lowe considered a number 2 starter if his strike out ratio is less than Pettitte's? Also I question Burnette heart! Every Yankee fan that is on the Burnette band wagon fails to realize that the he was his most dominant against the teams that were potential bidders for his services. We do not need players of this nature. As far as Wang's post season performance his best game was in 2005 6ip 1 run 1 ko. It was also his longest outing of 5 playoff appearances. Joba and the bug game excuse I believe Pettitte was the starter in that game going 7ip allowing 1 run. You also cant compare Smoltz who states he wants to pitch out of the pen and is coming off an injury! Johnson is a good example, he is getting 8 million for a sub par season in the national league. If Johnson is worth 8 million than pettitte is definitely worth 13 million. Look im not saying he is worth 16 million but he is certainly worth more than 10. The other account you need to take into consideration is you have two pitchers new to the bronx who dont seem to handle pressure all that well and a rookie who will have his full season as a starter. Pettitte's value is not just in his statistics but his leadership as well. He can help these players with the transition. No matter where Andy pitches next season he is going to have a great yr and the Yankees will wind up kicking themselves. You still never answered my pt about Mussina
The difference between AL/NL ERA is only about a .10 edge to the NL. That's not much of a difference.
I wasn't comparing Pettitte's SO's to Burnett. I was stating that Burnetts SO/9 and BAA is one of the top in the majors over the past 3 years; 4th and 10th respectively. My main point was Burnett can be very overpowering; Pettitte cannot. I agree Burnett does seem to turn his game on/off at times. That is why he is not a #1 pitcher. We should see this year if he can become consistent and keep his game 'on' .
As for Lowe, I wouldn't say he is very overpowering w/ regards to SO's, but he has been very consistent over the past years. I still think he is a #2 type pitcher. In the past 3 years Lowe is:
16th in ERA: 3.58
13th in WHIP: 1.22
27th in BAA: .254
Whether it's NL or AL, those are still very good numbers. Much better than Pettitte over that time period.
Would I like them to get Pettitte for 10 mil...yes. Or better yet Lowe for 13...or Sheets for 10. However, I think the Yanks will be fine if they do not get a 5th starter. All teams have question marks. The Yanks have at least 3-4 pitchers that can fill the #5 role or fill in for injuries that will cost them next to nothing.
As for Mussina, I expected him to be better than his 2007 season but nothing close to what he did in 2008. I think he suprised everyone. Pettitte MAY have a decent year next year, but odds are against it...either take the 10 mil or retire.
Pettitte's negotiating position is deteriorating by the day. I love him, but he's got to realize that he's not going to get $10+MM and more than one year from any other team (or at least not any team that he'll want to pitch for). He should have taken the Yankees' offer when he had the chance.