JIM: DELGADO HURTS METS MORE
This, to me, is really an easy answer -- the Mets need Carlos Delgado to hit like his old self far more than the Yankees need Jason Giambi to.
The Yankees can get by without Giambi hitting. They can hide him far down in their powerful order, maybe even as low as eight if his struggles continue. And no one will notice because you're bound to get massive power numbers from A-Rod and Abreu, Matsui, Posada and Cano will drive their share of runners in. They'll still score a ton.
But the Mets' lineup becomes significantly weaker with Delgado scuffling. Basically, without Delgado, they're down to two legit run producers in Wright and Beltran, and you've just got to hope Alou can stay healthy to give you 300 at-bats and Church continues on his current pace. That's a whole lot of fingers crossed in that scenario.
If only Delgado can show enough to hit .275 with 30 doubles, 22 home runs and 90 RBIs - essentially his 2007 numbers with a higher average - the Mets become such a more formidable offensive team. Yet right now, after what we've seen so far, it's easy to wonder whether Delgado can give half that. And the Mets have to be worried...
ANTHONY: GIAMBI’S A REAL DRAG
Jim, remember when the Yankees signed Jason Giambi to that seven-year, $120-million free agent contract? Well, this is Year Seven. And the Yankees need to do to Giambi what the Blue Jays did to Frank Thomas.
Release him.
Giambi is dragging the Yankees down by taking up at-bats that could be going to Shelley Duncan or Morgan Ensberg or even Wilson Betemit when his eyes clear up. There’s no way I can prove this, but I believe Brian Cashman signed Ensberg with the idea that he would somehow be the everyday first baseman this season. Cashman knows the Yankees are too lefthanded and probably figured Giambi would have trouble staying healthy.
Plus, the Yankees need more grinders and less glitz in their lineup. Releasing Giambi now would continue to move the team away from the star-at-every-position madness that hasn’t produced a championship in seven years – going on eight.
Giambi is making $21 million and can’t hit anymore. It’s sad that his best contributions have come on defense.
Joe Girardi gave it the ol’ college try when he hit Giambi fifth to start the season. But Giambi is beyond done. You can’t say the same about Carlos Delgado. Delgado is not a top offensive player anymore, but he’s had a few big hits already this season.
Plus, and most important, the Mets have no other options at first base. They are stuck with Delgado in a way the Yankees aren’t with Giambi.
Who do you agree with? Let us know!
Comments (20)
With Giambi, it's almost as if something has happened, some special magic that he used to have, has disappeared. As though he can no longer find a powerful elixer that once gave him superhuman strength. As though some substance he once injected has been made technically illegal and is now being officially tested for by Major Legaue Baseball.
Giambi hasn't really been a factor for the last few seasons.
The Yankees have enough pop to make up for his withering a--.
I get the sense that people on the Yankees like Giambi (more people came to his aid during the 'roid scandal than to A-Rod when he had the nerve to only win 2 MVPs as a Yankee)
But let's face it, the signing was supposed to be bringing the next great superstar to the Yankees and what it brought was
1 great season (2002)
1/2 a good season (2003)
another 1/2 of a good season (2005)
And one good season (2006)
That's 3 good years out of the first 6
The first half of 2003, all of 2004, the first half of 2005 and last year he was the definition of flop.
And this year, the home run against Timlin not withstanding, isn't pretty.
There's no way you can classify his contract as a disaster...
Carl Pavano and Matt Clement were disasters.
But it is certainly a disappointment
It's funny about DelGado... he put up his best numbers while the team was collapsing.
Either way, it would behoove both New York teams to develop a first baseman
Today, Anthony and Jim are both right.
The Mets need Delgado to hit because they have a weaker offensive lineup, and in the National League anyone with a good offense stands out given the nature of the game there (no DH).
The Yankees made one of their biggest mistakes when they dumped Tino and signed Giambi. They overlooked the value of Tino's glovework (painfully apparent when one watches Giambi in the field) and the fact that he contributed offensively. There were better options that year, but the Yankees took the wrong one. Now they continue to err by sticking with Giambi. He's an albatross. That his biggest contributions are now in the field suggests just what a liability he is at the plate.
Giambi hasn't been a total disaster, true, but he's not been worth the investment. The Yankees could have secured a different first baseman after letting Tino re-sign for 2-3 years and went elsewhere in the 2001-02 off season.
Now, trust me, there's a good chance that Giambi will go on a spree, and we'll have his supporters come out of the closet. But it won't last long, so take names when the moment comes.
It's too bad. It's clear Giambi really wanted to succeed in pinstripes. It just wasn't meant to be. The Yanks signed him at the apex of his career. From there it's been a slide downward.
Delago is terrible. What is worse though is Willie keeps using him at the #5 spot and has played him EVERY game. He continues to try to pull the ball even though they do a shift on him.
Since Wright is the only reliable clutch hitter in the middle of the lineup, Delgado's usual 0 for 5 with 0 RBIs and 5 LOB really hurts the Mets. If the pre-2007 version of Delgado had played last year, the Mets would likely have made the playoffs and perhaps won the Series; and if he was playing this season we would be off to a strong lead in the division. Instead he fails to contribute game after game, kills rallies, and keeps the team mediocre. Randolph needs to bench this guy, and Omar needs to find another RBI man to complement Wright.
Brooks Simpson is a Final Score regular! Good to hear from you...
You're both right, but Delgado is the greater problem because his non-production is more conspicuous in the Mets' lineup and the Mets have no real alternatives.
At the very least, Willie has to move Delgado down to 7th in the order, and give Anderson some starts at 1B..
Both Giambi and Delgado are poor on defense.
Both should be released.
Giambi has become the ultimate streak hitter and all he needs is a good day at the plate or a dinker to fall in for him and he'll get going, as long as he is healthy, which he appears to be right now.
To be perfectly honest, I'd rather see him at bat in an important spot right now than Cano or even Melky. When he gets going I suspect he'll be on a tear for a while so I'm apt to think he still has more value to his club right now and I think his first base defense which seemed to have so many in a tizzy a while back has been above what the Yanks figured.
By the way, while at Camden Yards on Saturday night I sat behind a bunch of kids and I heard them talking about how they got to the game real early to try to get autographs. I asked if they had any luck and they held up various hats, gloves and balls with two signatures each on them and guess who's they were? Yep, Damon and Giambi as usual. I root for guys who realize what a little gesture can mean to a kid.
I really hope Giambi finds his stroke, not only for the good of the team but because he's just a good dude.
The Steroid Jason indeed had a few great streaks but in general the Yanks would have done much better without him every year. Steinbrenner had this idiotic passion to sign those players who had ever "hurt" the Yanks. Thus Giambi, thus even bigger disaster - the Big Unit. I'd say that Damon is possibly another example.
I totally agree that releasing JG ASAP would be the best thing that can happen to the team. Play Duncan, see how he develops and if he's not good enough - sign somebode in mid-season. Meanwhile there will be much more flexibility with the DH position and indeed - don't the Yanks need some power righty bats?
The Mets definitely need production out of Delgado more than the Yanks need production from Giambi, especially with the other options. In the last year of Giambi's contract, I wouldn't be surprised if Cashman was counting down the days until he's gone. You've got to wonder if they'll be considering using Posada at 1B more often or at least giving him regular practice there. The Yanks just have too many DH type players and Posada's bat is just too valuable. Fortunately, we have a very capable back-up catcher in Molina. He can hit respectably when you consider his defense and ability to work with pitchers. Giambi, since he can't seem to do anything but take a walk here and there and then clog the bases, should drop down a few bunts or slap hits towards third. I'm not saying it's the best thing for him, but maybe it will reduce the shift some and give him some utility. Right now though, I'd rather see Ensberg playing first or a regular shot for Shelley (assuming he can handle it defensively). I'm surprised that I haven't seen him getting more games in at 1st in SWB. I've only seen him as their DH, which, while his hitting is on a tear, I'd really like to see him getting more time at 1st (no sooner do I type that then I notice that Miranda was the DH last night and Shelley was the 1b).
Delgad hurts the Mets more in the end though because 1. the Mets need his performance more, and 2. they don't really have an alternative.
I don't know too many fans who weren't pretty darn happy when the Yanks signed Giambi. I loved Tino as much as any other fan but he was not hitting well, especially in the playoffs (besides two big home runs in 4 WS) and the Yankees offense was dead in the 2001 WS.
I know I was excited because I thought we were getting the right kind of free agent: a guy in the prime of his career who had excelled in the playoffs and wasn't so one dimensional that all he could do was hit HR's. Sure there were questions about his defense but if the guy could have hit .330/35/125, nobody would have worried about that.
It hasn't worked out for Giambi but that doesn't mean I won't root for him as he is still wearing the Yankee uniform and I'll root for him as long as he continues to do so.
Why don't the Mets take a shot with Frank Thomas? They need a RH bat. They need someone who can play 1B. They need someone with excellent "on-base" skills. Thomas fits the description perfectly. And before anyone comments that Frank Thomas is strictly a DH, and NOT a 1B...ask yourself...how does that differ from Delgado? Tired of Delgado's indifference, his arrogance, his passive nature. He's likely a drag on Beltran's passive nature too. Delgado must go. The 1986 Mets cut the cord with George Foster, and look how that turned out. Delgado's bat and glove are killing the Mets.
Here's why Thomas won't fit as a Met:
Games at 1B:
2007 - 0
2006 - 0
2005 - 0
2004 - 4
2003 -27
2002 - 4
2001 - 3
2000 - 30
Definitely Delgado hurts the Mets more than Giambi hurts the Yankees. If the Yankees cut Giambi, then can use Duncan or Ensberg at first base, either of whom can contribute a decent bat. Also, the Yankees' lineup isn't built around Giambi. Finally, the Yankees have been able to hide Giambi's defensive deficiencies for most of the last six years. The same cannot be said of Delgado and the Mets.
If the Mets cut Delgado, who do they have? Marlon Anderson doesn't hit for power, and has shown throughout his career that he fades when given regular playing time (just ask the Phillies, Dodgers and Cardinals). Michel Abreu looks like a AAA hitter at best. And Frank Thomas can't be counted on at 40, with bad knees and a glove that would make Marvelous Marv Thronberry and Dick "Dr. Strangeglove" Stuart look like Gold Glove candidates. And the Mets lineup is built around Delgado. With teams no longer fearing Delgado, Beltran is being given practically nothing to hit.
Nobody else mentioned this, but did anyone else notice how Delgado is no longer drawing walks? Throughout his career, and up until the end of 2006, Delgado showed a good eye, good patience and great plate discipline. Last year that fell apart and carried over to this season. I can't believe some of the pitches that Delgado is swinging at. You would expect it of a 21 year old rookie, not a 36 year old veteran.
Options for the New York Mets:
A) Move Moises Alou out of the outfield once he's healthy and place him at first base. This way you'd be able to keep him healthier and use his outstanding and somehow ageless bat. Hopefully the time on the bench will somehow help Delgado regain some bat speed however unlikely. Either way it lets you keep the outstanding defense that Angel Pagan is giving you not to mention a pretty good bat in left field.
B) Sign the Evil Barry Bonds, his bat will protect DWright and Beltran, really give the Mets a dynamic lineup to help out their outstanding starting pitching. Also you still are potentially able to move Alou to first. Wouldn't be popular, but the turmoil would die down a quite a bit once we started winning games and going on streaks
Potential arguments amongst many could be that Alou may not be able to make the transition to first base... My argument is easy; How could his defense POSSIBLY be any worse than Delgado's?
and FINALLY
C) After the season is over, without a doubt let Delgado walk away and use the 16 million a year we were paying him towards trying to sign Mark Texieira. Not only do you weaken the Braves, but you also add a young 5 tool 1st baseman that can protect DWright and Beltran as well as drastically improve an offense and team that is getting "old".
Allow your young minor leaguers (primarily I'm thinking FMart) to replace one of your outfielders. and become much younger and tougher in what is becoming a much tougher division let alone NL.
and resign Olie Perez while allowing El Duque to retire. Other interesting names out there would be Ben Sheets, Jon Garland and A.J. Burnett.
starting rotation 08
Johan
Maine
Ollie
Pelfry
Garland?Sheets?Burnett?
lineup 08?
Reyes SS
Pagan/FMart LF
DWright 3B
Texiera??? 1B
Beltran CF
Church RF
Castillo 2B
Schnieder C
This year what needs to happen is a resurgence from Pedro when he comes back that way we could shift Figerreroa to the Pen or something to happen with Heilman because mainly our losses are due to a lack of support offensively and the inability of our bullpen to keep us in games.
those are some possible solutions although I'm speculating and its still too early to really panic
Jim A.-- I agree that many Yankee fans were happy to see Giambi signed. I have nothing against the guy. He was fun to watch in Oakland. But I thought at the time that the upgrade from Tino to Giambi offensively would be countered by a downgrade defensively, and that the Yankees might have invested better elsewhere.
Tino actually had a pretty decent 2001: 34 HRs, 113 RBIs, .280.
Jim B.-- Thanks much. You can imagine what it is to be a New Yorker in the desert (well, it was a lot of fun during the Super Bowl, which made up for the 2001 World Series). OTOH, it was also fun to see Mike Keenan go home tonight.
Jon you are a disgrace. Predicting 09 lineups? (even though you called them 08...earth to Jon it's 2008)
Are you really throwing in the towel on the actual 2008 season 18 games in?
Get outa here.
Mr. Met!
Not at all, I think we have what it takes to make a run, we just need to move alou to first at some point if Delgado doesnt get his swing back. its been missing for close to a year and at 35 im not sure if he's the kind of guy that will be able to surge back to .280/ 30/ 100 type numbers again.
We can have a dynasty, and realistically my question to you is, who is gonna help Wright, Beltran and Reyes out?
Even you know that without Delgado, and im talking the Delgado of 06 not the last 2 years; our offense doesnt put up enough runs.
I.E. we shouldnt expect David to hit a homerun or two every night or drive in 4 or 5 runs each game.
you need to relax dude, and maybe read what i wrote in its entirety. A plan usually consists of short term solutions and long term solutions big guy, Im as big a fan as any. I ran back and forth from the chow hall and my medical spaces in iraq during the 06 championship series weapon in hand just to catch each second i could. and i spent the final two weeks fighting for tv and computer time watching our collapse last year on call in the mountains. I carried a damn mets hat with me all over Iraq. I never gave up hope but im also not naive to think that problems just fix themselves. at least thats my experience in life.
At this point, I'd say bring up Fernando Martinez and just play him everyday. What do we have to loose? Griffey Jr. and A-Rod came up at 19 years old. Why can't he? Anybody know how old Straw was when the Mets brought him up?
Delgado is done. Finished. In 2006, he started to show some signs of it when he went on terrible slumps. Last year, the slumps were bigger and happened more often. From what I can tell, if he played a full season, I'd predict he'd put up something like this: .225 13 55. For a first baseman and #5 hitter, that is unacceptable. I'd bring up the kid Carp from AA who is on a tear. How could he possibly do any worse? All he'd need to do is hit .250 with some power. I don't think that would be out of the question.