The Knicks Fix

I saw the clip alan, they aired it on MSG during the game. breen even mentioned you by name when you brought up the 90's teams in defense of the knicks honor. Thank you for saying what most knicks fans would have, plus or minus a few curse words.

what a disgrace isiah is. possibly the most arrogant piece of work on the face of the earth.

turned his back on the court while the ball was in play, and turned around and blamed the fans at the garden for losing games this year.

just the other night he called himself a piston that is "right now, working for the knicks."

the always politically correct stern had nothing but bad things to say about his administration of the knicks.

Isiah Thomas is a disgrace to the city of new york.

he can't even deliver the city of new york a good lottery pick for all their losing.

"sometimes you pour the cement for the foundation and you never get to live in that beautiful house"

isiah thomas does not belong in the city of new york, never did, and yet he's not going anywhere because he wants his money before he goes running home to chicago or detroit with his tail between his legs.

listen to his language "you haven't won it here since 1973."

guy's been at the helm for four long years and he's separating himself from new york like he's above the mess he created.

walsh hasn't been here two weeks and he says "we haven't been competitive in a long time."

he's politicking to get fired. that's what he wants. he wants that money, but he doesn't want to stay. like larry brown. he knows how hated he is here.

Just when you think that clown couldn't say anything more irritating or offensive to the intelligence and pride of the fans... I have yet to hear a good reason why Walsh doesn't put him out of our misery and just let the assistants finish out the season. Allowing him to remain, with his media platform, is just a slap in the collective faces of everyone who cares about the Knicks.

I agree that its likely the Weasel is trying to sabotage the Knicks' draft position, but he's also trying desperately to amass a better record than Brown did.

At least, by his own definition, Isiah's been able to take pride in nothing since the 1990 season, and most likely never will again. There's some consolation...though con men like him go to any lengths they can to avoid eating their own words.

I think you are twisting that man's words around Alan... We all know what he meant and if you were really a Knick fan during the 90's you didn't view it as the glory days... I see hindsight is not 20/20... LETS BE REAL...

I hated the Knicks always found a way to lose the big game... I hated Starks going 2-18... I hated Ewing coming up short in a number of big games... Missing finger rolls in important parts of games... Shooting way past Crawford numbers in the Houston series... I remember those times, they are engrained in my brain... Yes, I would prefer that over this, but Knick fans over 45, talk about Willis, Walt, and Red... Not Riley, Ewing, and Starks... They were good teams but good can not be confused with great... Two finals appearances in a decade doesnt make you a dynasty... They played with heart, yes... But without a Championship u become the Red Sox of years ago, you are cursed... Everything looks better than the bottom but losing championships is nothing to be proud about... I'm not old enough to recall 71 and 73...

@ The Kid:

But you weren't PROUD of any teams for the Knicks that you've watched here in NY?

That's the key...NY fans are proud, very proud. I am from and still live in CT. I have loved the Knicks since a friend intorduced me to them in the days of Bernard King, and on to Patrick Ewing, Oakley, etc.

I was PROUD that those teams played hard every night, that the people running the team seemed to care about the fans vs. themselves (Zeke?).

PROUD...is the key word here...and I hope Sneaky Zeke is PROUD of what he did to a once great, respectable franchise!

@The Kid: How am I twisting words? I gave you everything the man said in context. And he knew what he said and the meaning to it. I'm tired of the blame-the-media angle. It's baseless here.

Sec - I never said Chandler was Artest. I said Artest is the player he should pattern his game after.

Yo Kid, somewhere there is a magic bandwagon where your team always wins. All you have to do is get on it. Dust off your Jordan jersey, or your championship Isiah Thomas Jersey, Troy Aikman Jersey, Red Sox jersey - whatever you want to be today. I hear Scientologists are have a winning program, where you "never compromise YOUR reality." You might want to check them out.

To think that anybody could twist words more than Zeke is pretty breathtaking. Alan - that might be a complement. Dana Perino comes to mind, Karl Rove? Dick Cheney perhaps?

Mr. Hahn, this just in, we haven't won anything since 1973. If Larry Brown would have said that, he would have hailed the next savior again. I am a lifelong Knick fan and unfortunately for some of you, the truth hurts. That does not diminish anything the Ewing Teams accomplished. Bottom line, they came up short. I loved those teams and felt their pain. Thomas in my opinion can say what he wants at this point. Be sorry what you ask for. Most people who know basketball feel the same way Thomas does when it comes to our Knickerbockers. When you mention the great teams of all-time, you talk about the Knick teams of the 70's. Not the 90's. Back off Mr. Hahn because it is not that serious.

The Kid & Vic: I am in complete agreement. Regardless of his intent-He's right.

I just don't get New York teams. The Jets did it this year and a couple of years ago, the Rangers use to do it in late 90's and early 2000's. The Knicks did it 3 years ago and doing it again.
The thing I am talking about is they go on winning meaningless games during the last week of their lost season and end up with a lower draft pick, and no chance to draft one of the elite players in the draft. That is why Walsh was not smiling after the Knicks won yeasterday. It's so pathetic

* If Isiah thinks that what he'll say will somehow remotely benefit him or in some ways camouflage his failures then he'll say it. We all know this Znake's color so what's new?

* Zeke's only goal now is to sabotage the Knicks' ping pong balls and exceed's Larry Brown's wins from a couple of seasons ago. To him, that'll spell personal victory. ALSO, HE WANTS HIS MONEY!!!

* I was never a big Ewing fan. Although the Ewing teams did not bring home the bacon, at least they played with pride and with passion. They competed with their hearts. They played to win. The "Ewing Sweat" - those were from effort. Something that most of Znake's handpicked untouchables would not understand.

At least the Ewing Teams did NOT embarrass the NYK organization, the city, and its fan base.

OLD SCHOOL,
Did you say you're from CT?
I lived all over NY, now I'm in bedroom community CT.

Vic - had Larry Brown said it, he necessarily would have said it BEFORE he had run the team into the ground, not AFTER.

Brown didn't have the chance to destroy the Knicks because Zeke ousted him to keep Starbury happy. Zeke created this vast mess all by himself. It is transparent that Zeke is again avoiding responsibility for what he has just done. Pointing his finger away from the pile of doo doo he just made. "Move along folks, nothing to see here..." The fact that we are talking about whether conference championships or winning seasons or whatever measure of success short of a title is success or not, has nothing to do with Thomas' Knick tenure. Nothing whatsoever. An interesting conversation, but not one to have with Zeke about the team he made.

He failed. Miserably. Gracelessly. Meanspiritedly.

He got out maneuvered by Browne Sanders - she left him mortally wounded and made herself millions of dollars richer. He got beat by his hand-picked savior, Starbury, who's testimony turned a civil trial that never should have happened into a slam dunk against him, Starbury who turned against him on a flight to Phoenix after he handed him the keys to the Garden and fired the coach who asked him to play the right way.

He couldn't coach the players he chose and then blamed his failure on the league for having players that run faster than Eddy Curry.

When a reporter asked him recently if he needed to do any extra great coaching down the stretch while Walsh is evaluating the team, he said no "because Walsh knows my body of work from Indy" Huh? Does he think Walsh needn't consider his "body of work" with the Knicks?

If it is ridiculous to compare the 90's knicks to the champion knicks, how positively surreal is it to compare the Thomas knicks to those teams? Its just another way to deflect criticism from himself - "See, Patrick didn't win either" What a whiny little loser. And how stupid; if winning is all that matters, he's NEVER done it as an executive, not at Indy (I guess we shouldn't consider his body of work there now? I am confused) Not in Toronto, not as the head of the CBA, not at the internal corporate struggles in Dolan's Kremlin, not on the floor of Madison Square Garden. A Loser, by his own definition.

Truth hurts, don't it.

I came up on the 90's Knicks...what Isiah says is what I say.

"Storied franchise"? You talking about Clyde right? Cuz Ewing and Co blew it for yrs in a row. Yes, they over achieved with CBA players like Starks and Mase playing big roles but it didn't translate into any wins.

If the media and some fans want to the extreme view that Isiah the Coach and Isiah the GM has "ruined this storied franchise" then he has every right to call you out. He's won the rings...Detroit still remembers.

Ewing has no rings...doesn't NY still remember?

Did Isiah ever get traded after winning a chip? Ewing wouldn't know about that.

It's not about Knick Pride...its about the truth.

Talking about arrogance? When u have the hardware to back up your claim, it's called "speaking from experience".

Heaping myopic criticism and blame at someone more accomplished then anyone in recent Knick history is what I consider arrogant. What makes you think you know better?

Clyde and Co..."storied franchise", Yes.

Ewing and Co..."strong playoff team", Yes. "storied, No.

Michael Jordan retires for two years and Ewing still couldn't get a chip.

Olajuwon did.

I have been reading for a while and I finally had to post something. I think we Knicks fans do have alot to be proud of with the 90's teams, they played with a heart and passion we should all put into our professions. However, our goal is not to make the finals but to win it. History does not remembers runners up. Hence, both Isiah and Alan are right in part.

As for the Knicks we need to: (1) draft a PG, if not Rose then Bayless or Mayo and sign a veteran pass-first PG to mentor them for a year or two in the mold of Brevin Knight. (2) We need to sign a shotblocker/rebounder who doesn't care about scoring li.e. Mutombo, Wilcox or my personal favorite Dorsey from Memphis to play alongside Curry or Randolph. (3) We need to trade Curry, Nate, Crawford, Randolph or Q-rich for some future first round draft picks and contracts that expire in 09-10. The culture of the team right now is a losing one and needs to purged as much as possible including buy-outs for Marburry and J. James who continue to destroy the work ethic of our young kids. Same for I. Thomas whose refusal to hold a practice is a reason I don't think he is going down swinging Alan . . .

@ the kid, barf and Vic corbit,

Good posts! I remember those 90 teams as being heartbreakers!
No one remembers who came in second! Even then the NY media
ran vile press about Ewing and co! We had one legit shot at a title
in 1994. Don't even bring up the 1999 Cinderella team that went to the finals in a shortend season as 6th seed with a 28-25 record!
One major NY paper's Main Knick beat writer recently posted an appoligy for his writings of those 90 teams saying he was too harsh on them. Another major NY paper's back cover read
" Goodbye and Good riddence" when Ewing was traded!
Now Zeke get more vile for telling the truth?

you can't talk about winning the finals without first getting your team back into playoff contention. how about being an 8th or 9th seed first, before sh*tting all over the compiled work of ewing, oakley and starks?

to speak otherwise just comes across as arrogant.

be a real fascist, lick isiah's boots.

"The thing I am talking about is they go on winning meaningless games during the last week of their lost season and end up with a lower draft pick, and no chance to draft one of the elite players in the draft. That is why Walsh was not smiling after the Knicks won yeasterday. It's so pathetic"

100% agree

Be a Real Fan - If Alan had mentioned anything at all about "storied" franchises, you would have a point. The issue is if a team that got the most out of every scrap of its potential on the way to multiple exciting playoff runs, high season win totals and a bunch of uplifting and heartbreaking moments is something fans can be proud of. I think so. And I thing the steaming pile of crap that the Weasel has left behind makes that even clearer. Only one Knicks team won titles. Only one other won the Eastern Conference (obviously not the same, but way more of an accomplishment than any other version of the franchise). They have more in common with the champs than the listless, poorly assembled, uncoached dreck embarrassing the blue and orange now.

Then there is this gem: "Heaping myopic criticism and blame at someone more accomplished then anyone in recent Knick history is what I consider arrogant. What makes you think you know better?"

Who would this accomplished someone be? One of the worst executives in franchise history? How reassuring that you consider criticizing the Weasel arrogant. I'm glad you find satisfaction with the current state of affairs. Real fan indeed. The fact that your statement best fits your own sorry criticism of Alan's comments is a wonderful example of irony.

To the Nameless former blog host!

Where were the Celtics last year? Where are they this year?
Once again NO ONE rembers who came in 2nd, 3rd , 4th!
If you don't win the Chip you you have the same status as
the lottery teams! BTW, Must be tough just you and dross blogging @ your place..huh?

May I remind you guys that Isiah and Kelly Tripucka were bound for the CBA Hall of Fame prior to Joe Dumars flourishing into a prime player.
Dumars joined Pistons in 1985 and 4 years later blossomed to will the team to 2 Championships with Finals MVP honor(s).
Further, Pistons should have at least 3 rings if it wasn't for the Znake's costly brain-freeze that led to DJ's lay-up.
Prior to Joe Dumars, ASSiah accomplished the same thing that Stockton, Malone, Barkley, or LaRue Martin have accomplished in terms of the shiny stuff, SQUAT!!!

Time for Dolan/Stern/Walsh to make a piñata out of Zneaky Boy.

@ Knicks4life

I'm with you! Dorsey would be the best pick the knicks would get in this draft @ 5 or 6! Now your talking the truth!

I like Dorsey - he is the kind of rugged no-b.s. defensive-minded player that the Knicks are really lacking. I didn't follow Memphis this season - is there anything to the talk that he doesn't always show up? The lotto might be a stretch, but is someone like Brook Lopez going to have a better NBA career?

"Further, Pistons should have at least 3 rings if it wasn't for the Znake's costly brain-freeze that led to DJ's lay-up."

@ Mak

I hate Isiah the GM/President/Coach too but c'mon he carried the Pistons to a Chip on one leg and is probably the second greatest PG behind Magic. You sound irrational suggesting Joe Dumars was more of a factor in their championship run then Isiah. That team adopted Isiah's personality not Dumars. Every championship team has a leader whose personality it adopts (Jordan’s fire, magic's Showtime, Duncan’s quite professionalism) and that team had Isiah's bad boy mentality.

That's this teams problem their identity is Stephon's personality, aka quitters and malcontents.

misnomer,

trust me, unlike most of isiah thomas' trades for the knicks, I knew and understood the full consequences of my actions.

it was a trade off that i'm happy with, you taking the daily responsibility of following a sh*tty in only a positive light, and me being able to write what I want to write, when I want to write it without the four horsemen of the knicks apocalypse trolling me for having an opinion contrary to their own.

I pass the baton to you, misnomer. matter of fact, there is no news on the knicks until the draft or isiah gets fired, whichever comes first, so good luck making stuff up in the meantime.

@ Former nameless blog host,

You didn't pass any baton to us! We took it!
Like I said prior.....Good luck with your one blogger Dross!
BTW...you can always invite "Mark" over! Then you'll have two!
And it looks like he needs somewhere to go!

@ Pete,

Dorsey showed up every night! Memphis lost just one game
all season before the finals! Here's the run down on Lopez from
Dx Express, Check it:
Brook Lopez

Vitals:

Size: 7-0
Weight: 260
Age: 20 years old (yesterday)
Class: Sophomore
Team: Stanford (28-8)
NBA Position: Center

Stats: 19.3 points, 8.2 rebounds, 2.1 blocks, 1.4 assist, 2.1 turnovers, 47% FG, 79% FT, 31 minutes[/lfont]

In Short: One of the best post scorers in college basketball. Possesses rare physical tools--Tall, long, coordinated, with a good frame, nice hands, and the skill-set and smarts to be effective on both ends of the floor. Somewhat predictable since he seemingly goes to the same exact move every time on the right block, but it’s hard to question his productivity, especially considering how little help he had offensively from Stanford’s backcourt. Establishes deep position in the paint and gets to the free throw line at a very good rate, where he converts at a near-80% clip. Settles at times for bad shots, is not much of a passer out of the post, and is not the most fluid big man you’ll find around. A very solid defender, especially when it comes to hedging screens on the perimeter. Likely a very solid role player, not a star, but has the makings of an excellent long-time pro, at a position of need. Very intelligent off the court.

Chances of returning to school: 0%. No surprises here, considering how high he is projected to be drafted, and how little he has left to prove. Has stated that he will be hiring an agent, likely Bob Myers/Arn Tellem of Wasserman Media Group.

Early Projection: 3-7

misnomer

Did anyone ever tell you that your writing style closely resembles that of a scrappy chiuaua?

"We took it!"

Is that what you said on here a few days ago when I booted you off the website along with blanket_statements?

just like a fascist, always trying to rewrite history.

@ Alan... I'm not blaming you for going with a story that most people would agree with blindly because they dont like Zeke... That is your prerogative, but I'm sure if you search your true feelings of the Knicks during the 90's... I'm proud of what they did, wouldnt be the 1st thing that comes to mind... Thats what people who lose championship say years after the fact... You may have liked the players, you may have liked their heart but they came up way short... Will we remember Memphis for being such a proud team... Or the Patriots going 19-1 as great... Fans want championships, and I may be more disgusted with the current team... But I have never been more heart broken (as a fan) than I was in the 90's with the Knicks... It was a trying time but I was a fan then, like I am a fan now... But I have never lost sight of what it is all about... The CHIP, point blank... And let me say Ewing's HOF induction is nice for him, but what does that mean for the fans... His, the buck stops here attitude never won the big game... The media killed Ewing during that time, now all of a sudden we should be PROUD... You cant have it both ways...Isiah maybe wrong about alot but not this...

The realest thing you said about him in that blog is this...

"I think most fans in New York are simply tired of hearing anything you have to say."

@ MAK...yes, I'm a CT-lifer (various places). It's where I can pay the bills & have trees & grass at the same time.

I have made countless trips to Knicks games however. I was even a 2 yr season tix holder a couple years back...I dropped 'em, thinking I knew what the future would hold. Sadly, it is now way worse than my expectations.

So, it just dawned on me...was Znake basically laying the blame on Dolan in a round about kind of way?

To the nameless former blog host,

Please! Your writing style is exactly like Hitler!
Rewrite history? You should be so lucky if you could rewind
period, then maybe you would still have a blog!
I believe you fell below the "INTERNETS" in posting standings!
Pathetic..... I looked this up and thought it might help you understand your own position.

Blog Suicide
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
(Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, to kill oneself) is the act of intentionally terminating one's own life; many dictionaries also note the metaphorical sense of "willful destruction of one's self-interest".[1] Suicide may occur for a number of reasons, often related to depression, shame, pain, financial difficulties or other undesirable situations.[citation needed] see STARBURYFAN;

Wow, I'm really surprised how many people are backing Isiah on this one.

I think what Isiah said was disgraceful. It killed me every year those 90's teams lost, but I was sure as hell proud of that team. And we certainly had something to root for.

It boils my blood to hear Isiah to put them down, and compare them to the team he's created, just because neither won championships. This is not an all or nothing thing. I want a team that will compete. That's it. Honestly, that will make me a happy fan.

Bottom line is that you can't expect a championship. You can expect that your team's players will lay everything on the line to win one.

Pride is a fools concept when it becomes a fixation over slight degrees of success or status over another. Dignity is a word I prefer all to carry themselves with.

To that end I do believe the Knicks of the 90s carried themselves with more dignity than the current batch. Did they leave a high mark level of success for fans to point to with unwavering pride about. Perhaps not. But is there grace and diginity and self respect as to how hard they played and how hard they strived. Surely that is the case.

So if one is upset by Thomas comment I could surely understand it, especially when considering the Eunuchs and stiffs of the Scott Layden years, and the spoiled babies and head cases of the Thomas era.

Still I can understand why Thomas would make that statement, considering the overzealous vitiol he's been recieving.

Truth be told the Knicks have a younger and more talented base than the one Layden left. Is that sufficient? No! But is it a start? Yes! So can I blame him for "single handedly destroying the franchise?" Hell no! Causation suggest that that road was set way before Thomas came on the scene.

While he is no hero for where the Knicks currently stand, he is also not the complete pariah he is made out to be. He has strong suits which should at least be considered before ousting him- solid talent evaluator, good drafter. That skill set will be needed when the stated goal of Walsh is to have cap flexibility, yet stay competitive b/c good, young, relatively inexpensive talent is what the Knicks will need to be entertaining and competitive while still remaining under the cap for the LBJ Wade sweepstake.

And finally go figure if the Knicks intentionally tank. They suck and Isiah gets more hate and vitroil. But if they compete and develop their pups while playing then Isiah is sabotaging the teams draft chances.

No one here can read intent we can all speculate to our hearts content but that's all anyone here can do.

With certain fans nothing is ever right.

Pe

Knicks4Life,
Isiah was a very good player but I can't help but look back and see that he accomplished squat in the NBA without Dumars. True, Zeke was an integral part of that team but Dumars led and willed that team to 2 shiny stuff. I've been to various Pistons blog many times and even their fans are wondering why The Septic One is 50 Greatest while Dumars is not.

IMHO, Znake did a good job exagerrating and selling that sprained ankle. We all probably have played hoops..... We all know that with severe sprained ankle and they'll carry you off the floor. We've seen many times players with a mild sprained ankle continue to play like Kobe, TMac, KG, etc... They don't milk it or vie for an Oscar award like Zeke did. I've seen Shaq plant his foot on Nowitzki and Dirk landed on it, direct hit. Dirk was out for a couple of minutes and then continued playing slightly favoring one foot.

Zeke was a very good player but a freaking lousy Coach/GM.

OLD SCHOOL:
From Park Slope Brooklyn to CT. I live up in the boondocks since 1991. We moved up here the year Gov. Weiker imposed the CT State Income Tax. Perfect timing on our part :D

Orange and Blue - There is more to developing the young players than chaining them to the bench for 90% of the season then throwing them out there. We've seen that Chandler, for example has potential these last few games - why wasn't he brought along throughout the season, instead of having the ghost of Q start game after game of first quarter blow-outs. Isiah has taken a ton of vitriol, granted, but he has brought it on with his evasive b.s. - his "body of work"? Come on. From practice schedule to x's and o's, player improvement to offensive and defensive strategy, skimpy playbook to insane substitution patterns, he is by any measure a terrible NBA coach, and his record shows it. Chandler's minutes aren't part of some development strategy - Isiah's flailing, as he has all season, and this time he's lucked out. Getting him off the bench is essential to any future progress.

I admit that he does draft well - which makes his inability to bring in free agents and make trades that result in winning basketball that much more bizarre. He seems to be a good scout but an inept GM, a job that involves team building as well as prospect identification. I could live with him being assigned to the scouting department if Walsh wants to keep him around.

Peaceman - Thanks for the info on Dorsey and the report of Lopez. I watched Lopez in the tournament and he seemed a bit stiff. Good numbers, but he seemed to have to work really hard to score in the post against much smaller guys. I'd stay away from him - the Knicks need a solid starter out of this pick.

Every great player (and Isiah was great) needs some other very good-to-great players for there to be a championship team. Where was Jordan without Pippen, and either Grant or Rodman? (In this case, Pippen was great too, Grant and Rodman very good.) Obviously there were more to the Bulls and the Pistons than their top 3 or 4, but there's a real comparison to be made betweeen Isiah-Dumars and Jordan-Pippen. Isiah and Jordan were both more focused on the offensive game, though both could play D at an extremely high level. Both Dumars and Pippen willingly played sidekick, tailoring their games to complement their higher-profile teammate's. There's a lot to be said for the thought that Thomas didn't with without Dumars--but that's not a knock on Thomas, either. If anything, it shows just how tough it is to win a championship in the NBA.

Which brings me to another point...what's not to be proud of in a team that came close, twice, in a decade? They were sure as heck worth rooting for! We still remember 'em...Spike vs. Reggie, the whole team vs. Michael, the Finals...so the memories are bittersweet. I don't think there's a Knicks fan alive who'd say that the memories of those '90's teams which died in the playoffs, are 100% bitter. If there is...I doubt that person is a fan.

@ Your right ...I don't think any real fan is 100% bitter over those
90's Knicks. Bitter sweet may be a better term. Remember
in 1994 we were up 3-2 on Houston before we lost!
That really Hurt! Still does today!

That last post was to Mike!

Alan if you are saying, Isiah does have alot of audacity and nerve to say what he said... When you look at the teams he has put out on the court, if we are comparing his resume as a GM, President, or Coach... Not a player... You have a point...But I cant dispute the relevance of what he said... Only the motive... We hold on to the Knick 90's cuz the 2000 years have stunk...

Matt B you are right we had something to root for, prefect word ROOT... There was dignity in the way they played like Orange&Blue said... Which I did respect... I'm not 100% bitter with the 90's teams, at all... Just speaking the truth...

And MAK Isiah was great player not just very good, lets not get carried away... You could say the same thing about Jordan b4 Pippen joined the Bulls, and that would be insane... Or Hakeem b4 Cassel, all great players need good teammates...

I also agree that Isiah has drafted some good talent, that is his strong suit... He did it in Toronto as well, and had a hand in bringing some of Indiana's talent... He has done it here even without high draft picks at times... Chandler, Lee, and Nate were all steals...

There is a significant divide from winning a championship to "teams to be proud of," to the laughing stock that they've become. Isiah shows he doesn't understand New York or the Knicks, because despite the fact that the '90s team didn't win a title, they competed hard every single night and the games were always worthwhile following. Now, its impossible to watch them.

And besides, its all besides the point. Thomas has had four years to build a decent team, and other than the first year (with Layden's players) the team has fallen into the lottery. And, worse than that, they are no better off today, then four years ago.

Finally, this late season winning streak is very typical of losing organizations and losing players. The players, going up against teams that have nothing to gain, are auditioning for Walsh and the rest of the league. Just for their own personal gain. They are selfish and lousy basketball players.

Gaining the sixth pick will keep this franchise in the dark for years.

@ David - and let's not leave out the fact they have amassed this horrific record in a SUPER weak Eastern Conference.

Does that speak to the players or the coach? I'd say both and if it speaks to the players...then does it not speak to the GM that put the team on the floor (over the last 3 years)?

That's a tough rock to crawl out from under...I'm almost ready to believe the conspiracy that Znake's sole purpose was to do this all along. I just need to figure out what the Knicks did to him.

He's that much of an pompous a-hole...

The Kid -

Isiah can't draft. It's a myth. I'll give him Lee, but that's it. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

In that same draft, he had the Frye pick, which was terrible. Went ahead of Granger and Bynum.

Chandler, you can't call a steal. He has not done anything in a game that's mattered yet.

If Isiah could draft, the Knicks wouldn't be as bad as they are right now.

The Kid,
Let's evaluate Zeke's so called strong suit in drafting or great eye for talent.

2006:
Balkman over Rajon Rondo, Jordan Farmar, Daniel Gibson, Paul Millsap, and the UConn boys (M. Williams/J. Boone)

2005:
Channing Frye over A.Bynum, Danny Granger, Monta Ellis

2002:
While at Pacers, picked Fred Jones over Tayshaun Prince. Walsh wanted Prince but Idiot Thomas wanted Jones.
Also, was quoted as saying: “pls. don’t waste my time” with Carlos Boozer.

1996:
Camby over Kobe, Steve Nash

At best, Znake's eye for talent is average. Just like everyone else, it's hit or miss. He got lucky with D. Lee and a few others. But look at all that he gave up (did not choose).

You New York fans have a lot of passion...and you let it (passion)cloud the facts...YOU HAVE NOT WON SINCE 1973!!!!Ok get over it...Pistons taught the BUlls how to WIN..Just like Boton taught the PISTONS and PISTONS eventually beat BOSTON...Yet the KNICKS never defeated the BULLS..ISIAH THOMAS has his championships at every level on every team as a player..now he is trying to engineer New York to become winners...HE IS THE ONLY NBA IN HISTORY TO KICK JORDAN,BIRD, AND MAGICS BUTTS TO WIN BACK TO BACK TITLES..IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THAT TEHN PERHAPS NEW DONT DESERVE TO WIN..SHOOTT THE 90'S KNICKS WAS A BOOTLEGG VERSION OF THE BAD BOYS ANYWAY..NEW YORK IS A GREAT CITY. SOMW OF YOU GUYS DONT APPRECIATE NUUTHIN..HAS MARK JACKSON WON ANYTHING? KIKI?..EWING?..NOPE..NADDA..ZIP..ZILCH..EWING DID HAVE NICE SHOES THOUGH..AND A GREAT GAME BUT NEVER EVER HAD THE GREAT POINT GUARD..HARPER WAS CLOSE..WARD..H#LL NO, ANTHONY..PLEASE..THERE YOU HAVE IT.. LET ISIAH MAKE YOU WINNERS AND PUT THE CRY BABIES IN THEIR PLACE..I COULD NOT LOSE ON NATIONAL TV GETTING PAID ALL THAT MONEY...SHOOOT GETTING PAID NO MONEY..THATS JUST ME..JUST GO AND GET THOSE AND1 BOYS FROM RUCKER PARK..THEY'LL PLAY HARD BET YOU THAT..PLUS THEY'LL ENTERTAIN YOU..PEACE FROM TEH MOTOR CITY KEEP YOUR HEAD UP ZEKE.. WE LOVE EVEN IF OTHERS DONT

ITS FUNNY HOW AL THESE GUYS WANNA SAY IT MUST HAVE NEVER BEEN MEANT FOR ME TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP AS A PLAYER..LOL>>hahah...ITS ALL BULLCHIPS!!!! NO ALL THESE LOSERS WANNA CONVINCE YOUNG GUYS COMING INTO THE NBA (TO BE LIKE ME)((A WINNER))MARK JACKSON ETC..NEVER WON THE BIG WON AND WILL NEVER GET THE RESPECT OF THE FATHERS..IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME BECASUE THEY NEVER WON..

Nothing says "don't bother reading" like an all-caps post.

Dear Zeke

Just give me a call if u need my help. Anytime, anyplace.
Looking forward in hearing from u soon.

The Nameless former blog host has Drossman posting
like crazy! Life is funny as poor Dross doesn't know
that that blog site will be changing it's name to
Hitler's Third Reich - lol

the idea that no one remember who came in 2nd is a tired cliche. in point of fact, any true sport fan can tell you who lost the super bowl or the world series. this "winning is the only thing that counts" mentality is tripe. some winning teams are immemorable (the spurs come to mind), while some losing teams are compelling (the ewing knicks among them).

isiah's comments were (predictably) indefensible, for multiple reasons. first, as an employee of the knicks, it is an outrage that he should disparage any knick player or era, especially the ewing/starks/oakley led squad, which played with great pride. second, for him to refer to the knicks in the third person, is evidence of just how emotionally disinvested this creep is in our town and our team.

you don't need freud to tell you what we all already know: this guy suffers from multiple personality disorder, paranoia, illusions of grandeur, and displaced self-loathing. i will always hate him.

alan, bravo.

Of course Isiah won it all as a player. And he did it with guts and talent and style. The tragedy is, a whole new generation of basketball fan will only remember him as the basketball buffoon he’s become in New York.

Of course Alan is right to call Isiah out. It’s not just one interview. It’s 4 years of self-serving pap. Somebody has to bring a little reality back into the conversation.

And yet, does any of it really matter? Does anything Isiah Thomas say matter at all? Not in New York. Not anymore. This is all just haggling over where to put the deck chairs on Isiah’s Titanic. It’s time he took his snake-oil recipe and slinked home in disgrace. So he can blame the fans. And tell anyone who’ll listen that it’s not a big man’s league anymore. Jeez – he can’t even LOSE well.

Isiah was a champion. True statement. In the past tense. At the moment, however, he’s looking at another kind of championship -- at the very least, a podium finish among the worst sports executives of all time. Certainly, that will be the “legacy” he leaves behind in New York. 100% fair? It can be debated. But make no mistake about it. That is the ballpark he’s playing in these days.

If Dolan had fired him two years ago, he would have been remembered as a failure. Lots of GMs fail. If he’d fired him last year, Isiah would have been remembered as a disaster. Still, as we all know, even disasters can be resurrected. But now it’s too late for Isiah. “Laughing stock” is too generous a description at this point. He'll never run an NBA franchise again.

Dolan - either by his own stupidity or malice or greed - has ultimately stabbed Isiah in the back. The kindest thing he could have done was fire Isiah before the dirt started being thrown into his basketball grave.

It's very obvious....

* The true Knick Fans are proud of the Bernard King/Ewing era. No shiny stuff but they played with pride, heart, yada-yada, etc.....

* The delusional Isiah loyalists, who pretends to be Knick Fans, are degrading & defacing the NYK of the 80s & 90s. This, to glorify The Profit Isiah. Anything to minimize Znake's failures and his atrocious body of work;

* I would pay to see Adrian Dantley and Zneaky Boy locked up in one room, exchanging pleasantries.

Every Mock Draft has the Knicks picking MAYO with our first
pick! I'd like to see if Walsh could make a deal for one of the Raptors Two point guards, as they both should Start on an NBA team, are young, Talented and true point PG's! Then maybe we can get a Big with our draft pick?

This is for the former nameless Blog Host! My you find Comfort
and inner peace within this special gift I offer you. Hope in time
all wounds are healed, but until then may you find comfort in these words, Check it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePRH_waWD_g

There's a lot to be said for the idea of drafting Rose and trading Crawford for TJ Ford. Ford is a good point, though injury-prone, but the important thing is the salary: not only is Ford looking at the possibility of retiring with another head/spine injury, but he's averaging $8M through 2011. That's an additional year on Crawford's deal, and only $1.5-2M in cap relief. Gives pause...but I'm on board with the principle of drafting a talented 2 and using Craw as a chip.

Even if I give Thomas a B for drafting he gets F's across the broad for everything else... But make no mistake his drafting skills are top notch... Every GM misses a gem but the job is to consistently get talent out of the draft... To at least put your team in the position to have a better future but the regimes from 1989- 2003 did not do that... They are partly responsible for the franchise being in its current state, they put little stake in the draft... We never obtained good young talent during those years...

15 years with at most 3 solid nba players Ward, Davis, and Anthony is nothing to hang your hat on... Isiah has already done better in that regard... Look at the years after Strickland and tell me what Knick GM drafted better than Thomas... He has at least picked guys that currently play in the NBA... Not Weis, Postel, Sweetney, Wallace, Frank or Monty Williams, and D.Jones I can go on and on... How many complete bums has IT drafted, Trevor Ariza is better than all those guys... And he was a second round pick... Wilson Chandler will be a good pro you can see that... This is no fluke... Lee and Nate talented... Frye is talented he just wasnt a good fit for the Knicks, he is a better center then a pf... T.Mac, Camby, D.Stoudamire, Lee, Nate, Frye, Ariza, Chandler, F.Jones, makes for a good resume... Jones is at least solid... Yes Thomas should have drafted T.Prince but that year we traded away Camby and a chance at Amare or Butler... What was worse? The jury is still out on Mardy and Balkman who both are coming off injuries... But even if you say they are trash, thats just 2 players... Thomas should be fired and banished from the Garden but not because of his drafting...

It is not a myth to say that only winners are remembered throughout history. Without looking it up can you tell me who Mike Tyson beat to win his first championship? Can you tell me who the Steelers beat to win their last superbowl? Who did Isaiah and the boys beat to win their first title? Cmon' in history it is winners who are ultimately remembered. We don't celebrate the guy George Washington beat to become the first president or name universities after him, we remember GW. But I am and will always be proud of those Knicks teams. I am Knicks4Life for a reason.

Back to the Knicks: I do not like Lopez. He is a stiff without the athletiscm to be the building block we so desperately need. Same with Love. We can sign a free agent with the mid-level who will be just as good. If we are going to pick and Lopez is the best available I say trade the pick for a lower mid-late first round pick, a second round pick and an unprotected first round pick next year. Combine that with our pick next year and the first round pick you'll get after trading Randolph, Curry, or Q-Rich and that will be three picks next year (including our lottery pick) which you can use on athletic character guys that can turn the losing and apathetic culture around. That is how you rebuild Portland style! Give me Donnie Walsh's cell!

The Kid:

* Znake took Balkman over Rondo and you're OK with that?
* The Idiot preferred Frye over Bynum or Ellis and you label him top notch?
* Camby over Kobe and Dr. Evil is a better drafter?
* He gave up on McDyess, Deke, and did not protect Ariza.

* His great eye for talent drove him to acquire Curry and giving up 2 draft picks that became LaMarcus Aldridge and J. Noah or Acie Law (depending on who you prefer.)

You need to factor in what he gave up to acquire his handpicked untouchables. His "top notch" drafting skill is a myth. Do Nelson's drafting record is much better. He even found/finds gems in the CBA or Euro league.

Do you even know why Izuk Thomas passed on Bynum? It'll make anyone puke.

* Will Idi Amin surpass Larry Brown's 23 to gain bragging rights?
* Will Zneaky Boy continue to harm NYK's ping-pong balls?

Thomas' explanation for passing on Bynum was another classic insulting lie. I doubt he cared about Bynum, and goodness knows he wouldn't've spared a moment's thought for how to groom him (just look at the steady progress Randolph Morris has made this year). Isiah just wanted to make himself look good, and poke New Yorkers in the eye again, by blaming his selection on them, that they'd've wrecked his confidence by booing. It's crap on the face of it, and the ordinary product of Thomas' mouth.

It's no different from his lie about Q, that he knew Richardson would need back surgery when he made the trade. (Q loudly denied this, of course.) Consider that...taking Isiah at his word, he sent Kurt Thomas, their only post defender, to Phoenix for a player who, within two years, would require back surgery and become a shell of his former self.

This is what happens when an unintelligent fool talks purely to gain a momentary advantage: the whoppers of his own telling betray him.

The Kid - I agree with you that you could look at any GM's picks and you'll be able to find guys he passed up on that in hind sight he shouldn't have. (i.e. Zeke got Fred Jones over Tayshaun Prince, but there were a lot of other GMs who passed over Prince because they thought he was too small.)

I just always thought that Isiah still got too much credit for good picks.

Just looking at what he did with the Knicks - Frye was a terrible pick, and he wasted a pick by drafting Balkman that high.

I'd say this - He might be a decent guy to find good athletes in the second round. That's it. The only positive thing I'll ever say about Isiah.

Mak- I'm talking about just drafting not trades... I said he would get an F for his trades...

Mak and MattB, and anyone else

Ask yourself this, was the Frye pick terrible because, Isiah's coaching and President decisions were bad or because Frye stinks... Was it a bad pick because he didnt hire Ewing or Kareem to work with Frye? Because I do recall him being damn near rookie of the year b4 he got hurt his first year... I do recall him not Bynum being in the Rookie Game... I do recall the Lakers wanting to trade Odom in a Frye package... Remember that? Bynum has spent the last 2 years being taught by Kareem, b4 that he was looking alot like a bust... Frye was one of the biggest bright spots of the Larry Brown year, his system was perfect for Frye... Lee Played about 6 meaningful games b4 he was benched... Did I want Frye over Bynum no, but we all know well that Brown wouldnt have played Bynum at all...
And yes I would rather have Rondo, Farmer,Lowry, M.Williams and over Balkman I agree... I wanted Rondo or Williams we needed a point guard...

But even if the 2006 draft was a bust which is still yet to be determined... But ok, He had 1 bad year drafting with the Knicks... Just 1... When u get 3 solid players out of a draft that cant be considered bad Lee, Nate, and Frye are solid... And would be in the top 15 of that darft class...

Ariza was a good pick... And Chandler... So 1 bad year out of 4 aint bad at all... We had 12 out 15 b4 and we all know that I'm being generous when I say that...

@MAK

of course you are correct. but you're wasting your time trying to convince people who either don't want or are incapable of understanding the truth.

I can't believe I'm about to write this.

I think Isiah has drafted pretty well. Not great, but pretty well. The argument being made against him is that, with the benefit of hindsight, he didn't pick the available player who turned out the best. I don't think there has ever been a case of a GM drafting out of the lottery where you can't cherry pick one or two players later in the first or second round who turned out better. Isiah has shown some knack (I'm not convinced it isn't partly luck) of finding players later in the first round who outperform the average player taken in their slot. He's pretty good at finding rotation caliber talent with late picks.

I don't agree he is brilliant - of his Toronto picks - Camby was solid, but he was also a Wooden Award type and a mortal lock for the high lottery. Stoudamire was overrated - R.O.Y., but only because he played the Nate/Jamal game - running around, jacking shots at will, putting up low percentage numbers on a terrible team. Isiah supporters point to the ROY as validation of the brilliance of the pick, but its not like Stoudamire went on to an all-star career. No one even thinks of him as one of top points of his generation. McGrady was a home run.

Here, he's tended to find solid guys late, but no sleeper all-stars like Ginobili or Parker in San Antonio. Its fair to say that his drafting is miles better than his coaching, trading, team building, management, etc., for what its worth. Which makes it that much more mind-boggling that he trades first rounders for chumps.

I can't believe I'm about to write this.

I think Isiah has drafted pretty well. Not great, but pretty well. The argument being made against him is that, with the benefit of hindsight, he didn't pick the available player who turned out the best. I don't think there has ever been a case of a GM drafting out of the lottery where you can't cherry pick one or two players later in the first or second round who turned out better. Isiah has shown some knack (I'm not convinced it isn't partly luck) of finding players later in the first round who outperform the average player taken in their slot. He's pretty good at finding rotation caliber talent with late picks.

I don't agree he is brilliant - of his Toronto picks - Camby was solid, but he was also a Wooden Award type and a mortal lock for the high lottery. Stoudamire was overrated - R.O.Y., but only because he played the Nate/Jamal game - running around, jacking shots at will, putting up low percentage numbers on a terrible team. Isiah supporters point to the ROY as validation of the brilliance of the pick, but its not like Stoudamire went on to an all-star career. No one even thinks of him as one of top points of his generation. McGrady was a home run.

Here, he's tended to find solid guys late, but no sleeper all-stars like Ginobili or Parker in San Antonio. Its fair to say that his drafting is miles better than his coaching, trading, team building, management, etc., for what its worth. Which makes it that much more mind-boggling that he trades first round picks for chumps.