No Trade Clause for Losing Teams
Have to say I'm in agreement with Isiah on one thing: this is not the time for making wholesale roster changes. Though it seems like the best thing to do, it's virtually impossible. First of all, you're dealing from the point of desperation, which means other GMs are mainly looking to fleece you. They're looking to dump their garbage as they pick at your carcass.
And let's officially stop with the Ron Artest talk. He's someone you bring in to supplement an established roster. He's not a savior. This place would be the worst kind of evironment to bring him into at this point in his career.
Look, no one is looking to help the Knicks. Any other desperate teams -- Miami, for one -- has just as much trash to take out as you do. So, unless they're desperate enough to take Stephon Marbury's contract off your hands for Jason Williams' expiring deal, there's not much on the table. Are they willing to give up Udonis Haslem? Doubtful. They're looking to fill holes, not create them.
Same goes for the Knicks.
Check the history, no losing teams have ever made mid-season trades and suddenly turned themselves into a championship contender. Mid-season deals for losing teams - i.e.: teams that are 14 games under .500 on Jan. 3 -- are generally done to clear some contracts and move some dead weight.
You make a mid-season blockbuster when you want to upgrade or add a final piece. Think about it, if you're the Knicks and say you acquire a big-name talent in a trade, what motivation does this player have to come here at this point? To go to the worst team in the East? To land on a team that is 14 games under .500, 19 games out of first and hurtling toward a lottery pick?
Those kinds of deals are best done in the summer, when optimisim is slightly higher.
The only mid-season change that sometimes has a positive impact on an underachieving team is a change in coach. Any other change -- unless it helps the team's bottom line -- is usually done in the offseason.
And as a Knick fan, you hope it's done by someone other than Isiah.
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Stat of the Day:
The Knicks fell behind by 25 points in the third quarter, which made it the third straight home game in which they trailed by 20 or more points. That has happened 12 times in the past 23 games and six of those have been at the Garden.
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So get this, I'm leaving the Garden tonight with my man K-Berg and we see the trailers starting to arrive for the PBR Tour which is taking place at MSG. Mind you, we're only a little while after Isiah Thomas' postgame address and also from writing our stories.
K-Berg turns to me and says, "Don't the bulls usually come before the bullsh---?"
Comments (24)
The Knicks will likely be 8-24 after this weekend, a .250 winning percentage.
Here's a suggestion: Save money by getting the AP feed on the remaining 50 games, and cover the Nets instead.
The only way that this team wins games is if the competition has an off night and plays down to their level.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
He, he, he, he, he,
LoL, LoL, LoL, LoL,
I'm in tears, stop, please stop.
That was Larry Brown laughing hysterically.
Did not see the game but the mighty Knicks fell to the lowly & depleted Kings at home. Are you kidding me?
Zach, Curry, & Jeffries started again? WT..
Another productive evening by that useless Jeffries?
Poor Balkman, taking it like a man.
Ooops, that was mine.
I think I have to intervene...soon...oh wait, I dont exist..Knicks are in trouble
Alan,
I must say it's been a while since I agreed with you but I think you are 100% right. Wait until the offseason when the draft order has been established and teams are also filling needs.
It is a better time when coaches both assistants and college could be available.
For the Knicks, the fix is simple. Buyouts and Trades assemble a team of nobodies. The whole team stinks worse than a Staten Island landfill. Isiah can't admit it but it's true. The Knicks bench players make more than most of Sacramento's starters. Problem here is simple. Trade or buyout the large "hoop dream" contracts and look to dump salary. Make a team of no names and let them play hard for the Cablevision dollars.
High paid Contracts are won already why win games from the Knicks players perspectives. So the can can laugh and giggle about their losing ways at half time - they still getting the money. They are all sad excuses for professional athletes. They could care less if NY ever wins again.
Bulls before Bull-bleep, very nice.
So I'm in the Garden last night, surrounded by nice tourists in town for the holidays and checking off a night at MSG from their life lists, feeling a little bad about "expressing" myself. My buddy who go the tickets for Continental Mileage points (the parallels betweeen Bush's America and Dolan's Knicks continue to smite me between the eyes; devalued dollar, devalued Knicks "currrency" of Continental Mileage points as they drop the number you need for tickets) points out that he heard there are clacques in the Garden now. Sure enough, there's a whole section in the 300's up against the wall that have thundersticks andd foamy fingers who are cheering every now and then. In addition, when they throw the t-shirts out, there's some fat bastard in clown makeup, rainbow wig and Starbury jersey, walking the concourse, tossing t-shirts. When the shirts are gone he returns to the paid crowd and appears on the scoreboard with the rest off the "ravenous fans". Truly inspired. I guess whoever replaced Brown Sanders is working overtime.
We actually ended up sitting between two families who had kids in the talent contest. Best part of the night. My buddy promised thet Dad of one of the kids he'd cheer for her, and was offered a beer in return. We did cheer for the girl, she won, (we cheered for all of them really, the chinese kid on the piano was awesome and was sitting right in front of us) and wouldn't you know, Dad came all the way back after halftime with the beer. Good man. The British group behind us were very understanding, and we filled them in on who it was that Sucked and who it was that need to be Fired, and why we kept reminding everyone of these facts at the top of our lungs. They accepted our apologies for the horror they endured, and learned that people used to play basketball in that place, that it used to be a place that other teams feared to tread.
As far as the game, the bizarre substitution patterns grow even more random, Lee seems to have completely given up and seemingly is now in Zeke's bad books, Q can't drag himself up the court anymore - indifference, sorrow, unhealed back? And most wonderous off all, Crawford can do no wrong. Everybody else was geting yo-yo'ed in and out of the game, Crawford looked like he'd just got a bad report card and hadn't showed his parents yet, turned the ball over, got burned on D, constantly, and didn't attempt a shot or even drive the ball past the three point line until the 3rd quarter, and never missed a minute. Huh? Is it personal now? Do guys like Lee, who want to win and take all this BS personally, don't buy in to the party line, get frozen out, and the guys who make happy talk and show up to continue the farce, get PT?
Honestly, it looked like some sort of wildcat labor action last night. A slowdown. Imagine if other guys in the players union would honor the Knicks player's work stoppage? Show up at the Garden, mope around for 48 minutes, Knicks will give you the win, and help keep the pressure on the boss. And of course, another barely-there player continues the tradition of having a career night at the Garden. John Salmons, we salute you in your efforts to purge our House of the malign presence that has lodged there. Your efforts too, will be in vain.
I never imagined Artest as a savior, nor as the trade that would turn the Knicks into contenders. I’ve been strongly in favor of trading for him, however, because I think he’s exactly what this team needs. Indeed, other than a super-star like LeBron, Artest might be the best small forward in the league to partner with Curry and Zach. And unlike someone like Wallace, another trade that’s been blogged about lately, Artest could still be part of the core of this team for many years.
Last summer was probably Isiah’s best chance to make a reasonable deal for Artest. You’re probably right, Alan – this isn’t the right time to try to make this deal, or any. But isn’t that tantamount to throwing in the towel? Doesn’t that simply acknowledge the fact that we’re playing for ping-pong balls at this point? And that isiah Lord Thomas has guided the franchise into another stillborn season?
If the season is lost, then I don’t see any reason not to bring in a new GM and coach, and let them get started figuring out the mess they’re in. And I think the younger players should get the vast majority of the playing time for here on in. Why not start Chandler at the 3 for a while? Better they make their mistakes – and learn from them – now, when every lost game simply means more ping—pong balls for us.
I agree with the byouts and trades. As it has been said countless times, money is nothing to Dolan. So buyout the scrubs, import guys who are fringe players that will play hard, and go from scratch.
Someone will take Marbury and Curry. Even if you have to take sh** in return, do it, then buy out whoever those players are.
Retain Randolph, N8, Lee, Balkman, Crawford, and make them the starting five. You can live with the defensive deficiences and the short center. Gut the rest, sign those fringe guys who want a job.
They won't win a lot, but at least the energy will be there and the willingness to push forward.
The worst part of all of this is the Knicks will win against the Spurs then loose the next 5 games watch!!!
Good article in the NY Sun relating to this topic (sorry it's so long):
Poor Risk Assessment Isiah's Downfall
Basketball
BY MARTIN JOHNSON
January 3, 2008
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/68904
The holidays are over and it's a fair assumption that most Knicks fans didn't get the gift they wanted from their NBA team: a regime change. James Dolan is still the chairman and Isiah Thomas is still team president and coach.
At all but one of the holiday gatherings I attended, I was asked if there was an imminent end to the fiasco at Madison Square Garden, where fans chant nightly for a coaching change as the team suffers one blowout loss after another. The Knicks have lost by double-digit margins in seven of their 17 home games so far this season. My fellow partygoers wondered what could be done in the aftermath.
The first question has an easy answer. It's unlikely that Dolan will fire Thomas, since it seems to Dolan that he would be giving in to mob rule by axing Thomas. But judging from the increasingly exhausted and exasperated tone of Thomas in his post-game news conferences, he may walk away before the season is over.
The answer to what happens next involves a Patrick Ewingsize irony. Whoever succeeds Thomas in the Knicks' front office will have to employ much of the same personnel strategy that he used and work the margins to find new personnel. But this time, the implementation of that strategy will require one key factor that was the absent during the Thomas regime: risk assessment.
After watching this administration for four years, I have to staunchly disagree with the folks who say there wasn't a plan. There was a plan. It involved remaking the roster by capitalizing on low first-round draft picks (a typically undervalued commodity), and by going aggressively after high-risk players who lacked other options in the free-agent market.
If forwards David Lee and Renaldo Balkman are any indication, then the draft strategy part of the plan is a success (though why Wilson Chandler doesn't receive more burn is a mystery to me). One of the eternal mysteries from this era of Knicks basketball will be what would have happened if Thomas and Dolan were content to simply rebuild via the draft. The current team might have included center Joakim Noah and forward LaMarcus Aldridge, along with Lee, Balkman, and some scorers. Such a team might struggle on offense at times, but it would be one of the better defensive teams in the league, and they would certainly play hard every night.
The free agent part of the plan has been an unmitigated disaster to such a degree that not even Dino De Laurentiis or any other Hollywood disaster flick specialist could create anything paralleling the magnitude of what went wrong. Thomas's free agent signings include centers Jerome James and Eddy Curry, guard Jamal Crawford, and swingman Jared Jeffries, and it illustrates the entirety of the problem with this regime. There's no attention paid to risk assessment. Each of these players had a considerable downside — a smart GM would have offered each a contract no longer than three years. Three-year deals work well for both sides. For the team, it limits their liability. For a player — if he develops star-level talent — then he's three years away from a possible nine-figure deal.
If Thomas had signed James to a three-year deal, then he could offer James in trade this season as an expiring contract. He didn't (James is in year three of a six-year deal), and that illustrates the problem with hiring elite athletes to executive positions: Thomas was a Hall-of-Fame guard in his playing days, and he was accustomed to overcoming long odds every time he drove the lane against bigger opponents. His success on the court gave him a skewed perception of acceptable levels of risk. Thomas essentially bid against himself for Curry, a player with a health issues that prevent his contract from being insured. Crawford and Jeffries also have key weaknesses in their games. Committing to each for six years, as well as trading unprotected lottery picks for Curry was a strategy with a probability of success that was less than one in four. But Thomas, as a player, was used to beating those odds every time he took the court.
That's why Thomas is one of the last of a breed: the star-player GM. Since Thomas's hire by the Knicks in 2003, almost all of the new hires to lead NBA front offices have come from the ranks of seasoned executives, many with no playing experience whatsoever, such as Sam Presti in Seattle, Kevin Pritchard in Portland, Mark Warkentien in Denver, Ed Stefanski in Philadelphia, Bryan Colangelo in Toronto, and Daryl Morey in Houston. Others, such as Orlando's Otis Smith, Phoenix's Steve Kerr, and Cleveland's Danny Ferry, were at best fine role players during their NBA careers.
It marks a key shift. Teams used to regard their personnel manager job first as a brand-building position, and second as a team-building position. There seems to be an increasing awareness that a winning team builds its own brand with each W.
This is very good news for Knicks fans. The next GM will need to think creatively to find ways to maximize the mismatch of talent that Thomas has heaped onto the Knicks' roster and will have to seize opportunities to make trades. As long as the next team president understands risk assessment, he could get the Knicks moving in the right direction quickly. The problem is that they have such a long way to go.
"I believe that we have no shot of winning a championship here, and I believe that only a couple of these guys will be left here after the new GM/Coach cleans house, and I believe I will be euthanized as well," Thomas said. "And as I sit here today, and people can laugh even more at me, but I'm hell-bent on collecting my $ 24.0 mil., making sure I get it, and I'm not leaving here until my wife, Lynne Kendall and I, get the loot."
With love,
Zeke
I'd make two trades. First, Randolph for Ben Wallace, straight up. It works in ESPN's Trade Machine. Knicks get defense and rebounding (even if he's a shell of his former self), Bulls get low-post offense. What's more, Wallace's contract comes off the books in 2010, the year LeBron will be available, while Randolph will be owed $17M the following season.
Then, and this is more debatable, Curry and Malik Rose for Shaq (which also works in the Machine). This depends on whether you think Curry can be salvaged as a decent NBA center. If yes, don't make the trade. If no, do it because Shaq will earn the fans' affection, and even in his current state is better than probably half the starting centers in the NBA. Plus, his contract also comes off the books in 2010, while Curry will be owed $11M the following season. Miami might like the deal because they'll get a young center, whom Riley can try to reform, and Malik Rose's contract (around $7M) will come off the books in 2009.
Then play the kids, hire Ewing away from Orlando to mentor Randolph Morris, and focus on getting LeBron in free agency in 2010.
no way shaq is coming here. he's not trying to be in an even worse situation than he already is in....N not to mention he's playing w/ a superstar in D-wade at least. who is close to him on the knicks roster?? plus Shaq HATES the cold !!! it aint happnin' captain.
THE ONLY ONLY ONLY WAY TO FIX THE KNICKS - I HAVE THE ANSWER LISTEN UP CLOSELY !!!!
get Charles Dolan to take back control from his son Jim and hand them over to someone else....then tell him 'ok son, you've had enough fun, now run along'
WE MUST GET THIS TO HAPPEN !!! IT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN MOVE FORWARD !!!!
Shaq doesn't have too much power over where he goes. He's not good enough to dictate things like that any more. Everybody, including Shaq, knows he's really on the downhill slide.
Ok, Willis' post is the best blog comment I have read in a long time. Only at MSG could John Salmons look like the next Oscar Robertson. Nicely done Willis.
I have a strong feeling the Knicks will be needing a new Center among other things this year. I was looking at Roy Hibbert 7'2 from Georgetown shot blocker that is developing into a scorer. we need to make a trade for another first round pick. Rebuild and start over.
Lets Go Knicks!!!
Maybe the ploy all along was to tank a season to get fans to buy in to rebuilding with our young core and draft picks. Isiah is a genius.
"And the Kicks are on the clock". LOL
roy hibbert is a STIFF !! i want joey dorsey from memphis...
6-9 260 lbs of fury...he is a BEAST !! and a shot-blocking monster !!! basically a darker version of kenyon martin. if we cant get him. those Lopez boys from stanford are developing better than i lthought they would since i last saw them in the mikkie'D's HS game a few yrs back.
I like Dorsey but I also like the Hardin kid from Cal, and Rose from Memphis as well.
The only good thing to look forward to next season is that Matador Marbury will have an expiring contract...all that money to go from goodwill ambassador for NY ($15 sneakers) to Big, whiny sourpuss-faced baby.
WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! I'm gonna get paid the veteran League minimum in 2 years (maybe unless he's the next Latrell)...take that Starjerk.
As we were sitting watching the greatness of Salmons unfold, we were trying to remember all the players who had career nights at the Garden. Washington Bullets figured in early; remember Ledale Eckles? (I'm sure I spelled it wrong) also a kid named Butler on the old Bullets had an unstoppable night at the Garden. Scott Skiles had his finest night as a pro, a triple double I believe. Seems like some scrub from Philly would always get off here too. Crawford had his biggest night......wait, he plays for us, or, hmmmm, maybe he's actually a mole, cleverly killing any signs of real basketball with his brilliant flurries of strategically batched turnovers and forced shots......Anyway, can anybody remember any of the others who were one-time-only Basketball Gods at MSG? Remember, Kobe and Jordan types don't count, just the lesser lights please.
And does this sound familiar?:
http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=6752
Give em Curry back for one of these kids, add something with a salary to make up the difference, and call it square. A rare trade that really hasn't benefitted either team. Look for Paxson to alienate Thomas enough at FA time to lose him for nothing like he did with Chandler.
Willis – I don’t have enough brain cells left to add specific names to your list. But it’s a syndrome that I, too, have noticed on numerous occasions over the past few years. Great insight. Playing against the Knicks is a career-night waiting to happen.