They're insulting our intelligence again.
When you ask any of these so-called "high-ranking Garden official" types -- which begs the question, since Garden VP Barry Watkins is so close to James Dolan and so skilled at getting his word out, who has more influence right now, Watkins or Garden president Steve Mills, who is never allowed to address the media? -- they'll tell you Dolan is a loyalist. That's why he won't give up on Isiah Thomas.
You know, loyal, like he was to an icon such as Marv Albert. Like his people were to Charles Oakley when he sat courtside at a game earlier this season but wasn't given the typical GardenVision love that singer James Blunt, seated next to him, was given. I mean, how many times to we need to see that Fat Joe and Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala) are at the game? We get it, they are season ticket holders!
Dolan's loyalty is then explained by his handlers with a point to the Rangers side of the MSG family, the area that is almost as ignored by Dolan as the Liberty. They say Dolan stuck with Glen Sather, who endured some awful years early in his tenure but has recently guided the Rangers into an above-average NHL team.
I saw a former Ranger in recent months and we talked about the Knicks for a while. I then said to him, "Now I know how Glen lasted so long with you guys." He shook his head, said, "I don't even want to go there" and walked away with a laugh.
But is Sather really deserving of the credit in turning the Rangers from an overpriced embarrassment of a franchise into something that resembles stability? Ask anyone in the know and they'll tell you former assistant GM Don Maloney (now in Phoenix) and coach Tom Renney played a much bigger role, along with the restrictions of the NHL's new salary cap, which forced the Rangers to buy out of bad contracts and stop adding new bad contracts. Renney and Maloney, meanwhile, also worked on drafting players who fit their needs and - what a concept - then developed them.
Pop quiz, Fixers: When was the last time the Knicks drafted and developed a prospect that became all-star? A follow-up: When was the last time the Knicks drafted and developed a player who became a consistent and credible starter for them?
(I'll give you time to think about it. Answers at the bottom of the blog).
Sather never looked to take credit for the work Maloney and Renney did. In fact, he stays out of the public eye more than ever now. What you can say about Sather is he hired quality people and let them do their job and let them take the credit. He even let them do most of the talking. Renney represents the Rangers more than Sather does in the media these days. Before he left, Maloney, too, was always open for an interview.
Some say it was just how Sather wanted it. He'd rather spent his time so far behind the scenes in choice locations such as Palm Springs or Banff.
If Dolan wants to be so loyal to Isiah and Garden people want to point to Sather as evidence loyalty eventually pays off, someone ought to have Sather invite Isiah out to his tony getaway in Alberta. Have a cigar and a sip of Remy Martin, relax on the corinthian leather sofa by the roaring fire.
And let someone else handle the Knicks.
* *
Sometimes you realize after a story is published that you should have put something higher up in your story. This morning, I came to that conclusion. The point to be made in the wake of the latest controversy -- Isiah vs. The Fans, Part II -- is what he suggests in his own words. Here's what I had at the bottom of the story in today's editions.
One more time, with feeling (and a little cut-n-paste):
(SNIP)
With evidence that his message is no longer getting through the players -- their lack of effort is Exhibit A -- Thomas is looking to the crowd to do what he apparently has been unable to do: motivate.
"I do know that ... the players we coach here, you can gauge their emotional response, and when they're aggressive and when they're tentative," Thomas said. "Right now, my team is a little tentative and a little hesitant. My job is to get them going and to get them aggressive and to get them confident."
So what comes first, the effort or the cheers? Even Thomas admitted that the crowd on Monday got behind the team once players such as David Lee and Zach Randolph started making an impact and helped cut a 23-point deficit to seven with a little over three minutes left. Truth is, it's not the players who are under constant heat; it's Thomas, the man who made the decision to put lumbering Eddy Curry on Dirk Nowitzki in the first half (the reigning MVP had 19 points on his way to a season-best, 36-point performance).
(UNSNIP)
* - To me, what's more disturbing than a coach jawing with the fans -- quite frankly, I don't mind a little give-and-take -- is a coach who allows his players to use outside forces, whether it is the crowd or the media, as an excuse for not performing. After Monday's game, there seemed to be more frustration with the Garden crowd and the boos and the chants than with the actual defeat itself.
* - Listening to sports talk radio on the drive back from practice yesterday and Mike Francesa brought up the point that fans should stop going to games. That it would be the only way to send a message to Dolan.
I disagree only because of the Three Percent Rule that we've discussed for about a year now. The Garden revenue makes up just three percent of the Cablevision revenue. Even if no one shows up, Cablevision will hardly feel it in the pocket. and with less people around to boo, Dolan and Isiah might actually prefer the quiet. That's why I maintain that, if you can afford it (or the tickets are free), you should continue to go and continue to voice your opinion. Make sure he hears you loud and clear.
Gimme a little Howard Beale:
I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!
* - Quiz Answers: Mark Jackson. Drafted in 1987, an all-star in 1989. And Charlie Ward, drafted in 1994 (behind Monty Williams).
Comments (25)
Wow,
I have returned from Wisconsin with now espn or access to the blog. I honestly don't care if Isiah is fired or not. What I don't want is a replacement to screw the decent salary we will have in 2 years and the chance of being in the lottery for 2 years. If we are honestly going to get another Ewing or Durant and Oden. We have to tank and get a top 2 pick.
Screw loyality to this team who needs a sports phsychologist in the worst way. Winners play hard every night because that's what they do. Kobe did it under the denver scenario, Iverson does it every night regardless of his personal life. We have role players and overpriced quitters. If we are going to get one, stay at the bottom and lure a free agent in 2 years.
A new GM and coach might just cave to the win now, make the playoffs chants. Do you really want to be the 8th seed in the playoffs and have the 17th pick in the draft the next ten years. Trade Curry and Marbury for cap relief and draft picks.
Tank! Tank! Tank!
Judging from his coaching decisions, I'm not sure that Isiah isn't already tanking.
People should continue to go to games and express themselves. That's what sports is.
The Knicks should man up and give the fans a reason to cheer.
I remember being at a Liberty game back in the day and the team was down 20 at halftime. The fans booed lustily as the team walked off the court, something they had never done. After the game, reporters asked team captain (in every sense of the phrase, something the Knicks don't have) Teresa Weatherspoon what she thought of the booing and if she was surprised. She said if the team couldn't put forth the effort, they deserved to be booed, that she agreed with the fans and that it was the first and probably LAST time the fans would ever boo the team as long as she was around. Instead of being upset with the fans and taking it personal, the next home game she was hi-fiving them and jumping into the crowd, diving after loose balls.
Then again, this was also the same person who walked into her GM's office before she ever played a game at MSG and said that she'd never accept mediocrity as long as she was in a Liberty uniform. Also went on to win something like 70% of the games she played here over 7 years. The Liberty also had a team full of veterans like Sue Wicks who made a living playing in real "hostile environments" overseas, not a bunch of wimps and pansies covered in tattoos but afraid of their own shadow.
Point being, the Knicks (and the current Liberty who also take booing personal) don't have that confidence, they don't have that leadership, they don't have that voice, they don't have that connection to the fanbase, they don't have that winning mentality and the fans sense that.
Instead, they have 3, count em THREE fake captains. When career losers like Marbury, Curry and Crawford are your captains, you have issues. They don't have anyone in that locker room telling them to stop feeling sorry for themselves and blaming everyone else for their problems. They instead have a coach who gives them an out at every possible turn. A coach who is from nowhere near here, but thinks he needs to explain what being a New Yorker is to the rest of us. John Starks (a guy who also wasn't from here, but played and represented like he was) should slap him every time he passes him in the hall.
You'd think Marbury, being from here and being a Knick fan would be that guy, but he's too crazy and insecure himself to really take seriously. Maybe Rose could be that guy, but when you play 27 seconds a game, who's really listening? Crawford's so busy idolizing his coach and trying to protect him that he's not the guy and Richardson aka the team's "shooter" is busy acting like the basket is a moving target. Curry looks like he'd break out in tears if a fan asked him for the time.
Excellent post Jeff
Well put Jeff.
One other thing about Sather - while his time here has not been exceptional, at least he built a Stanley Cup championship squad in Edmonton, and kept that team competitive when the economic nature of the NHL changed. So you could argue that he has at least been a winner in a front office once upon a time.
Alan,
Has it really been 13 years since a credible starter was drafted? Geez. I was thinking Hubert Davis, but Ward obviously has a higher profile in Knicks lore.
I don't post much, (as you remember from our e-mail exchange), but this whole thing is sickening. I don't see any end in sight. Baumbach's column about replacement coaches was interesting. But it all starts with the top. You need someone committed to winning basketball and putting the right people in the front office to build that team.
It just isn't the coach. But Dolan doesn't seem capable of doing that.
It's hard to even represent out here on the left coast (obviously not the best coast), when our team is the joke of the League.
Here's hoping Santa brings a new front office and an eventual new coach and players for Christmas.
Happy holidays everyone.
Brian
I actually heard from a team official that if the Knicks beat the Sonics, Isiah is going to get another extension. I kid you not. Dolan thinks Isiah gives the Knicks the best opportunity to win a championship in the very near future. Isiah is confident the Knicks will turn it around like last year when they won a grand total of 33 games. Knicks are on pace to win 25 games now.
Listen, the Knicks have not just failed in deloping players in the past. Everyone who comes to the team gets worse. Nate, David and even Renaldo have taken a step back from last year. Question - When is the last time the Knicks brought in a player who has gotten better or at least lived up to the expectations - Jared, Jerome and Malik are just cap killers who really have given us nothing. Even our starters have regressed since coming to NY - Q, Steph, Eddy haven't lived up to the hype. Jamal has maintained but 40% from the floor is just horrible. The only saving grace for Zach is that he hasn't been here that long. If Wilson Chandler wants to have a career he needs to get out of here.
ALL THE KNICKS NEED TO DO IS GET THESE PLAYERS AN GIVE THEM A SHUT PLAY THEM ALOT OF MINUTES.DORELL WRIGHT.GERALD GREEN.TELFAIR AND START WITH THAT...THEN DRAFT SOME GOOD PLAYERS
I agree with Charlie Ward as the last serviceable player the Knicks drafted. It got me thinking about Ward's career so I looked up his stats. In his career he averaged 6.3 ppg and 4 assists. His best season (97-98) he averaged 7.8 ppg with 5.7 assists and 3.3 rebounds playing 28 minutes a game. You would think your starting point guard would be good enough to stay on the floor more than 28 minutes a game.
I guess it further explemifies just how poorly the Knicks have done in drafting players who remain in the organization and develop into not a superstar, but merely a viable starter.
And let's not forget, Artest was still available when the Knicks made their absolutely worst draft choice - Weis.
Knicks lose to the Sonics at home and give up 117 points.
Yet Isiah will still be here.
I think they're going to win less than 23 games if Isiah lasts the season. Then Larry Brown will look a little better.
IT deserves the blame for this one.
Jeffries was actually having a pretty good game.
Then he gets taken out.
WTH? Who else was going to guard Durant? Jones? Yea, that worked out well.
A well-rested Knicks team loses at home to the Sonics who played last night. Isn't that the definition of: "as low as you can go"?
Great news. The Knicks lost to another terrible team. At this point,we need Dolan to keep Isiah on board for the rest of the season. The Knicks need to lose as much as possible for as long as possible. The entire franchise has to fall into the abyss. Then we'd get a top draft pick, and Isiah will be fired, and very possibly, Jim Dolan will be asked to step aside by the Cablevision board.
I TOLD YALL ALREADY THE KNICKS ARE GOING TO WIN 22 GAMES WIN THE LOTTERY AN HAVE TO GIVE IT UP JUST WATCH.ZEKE LITERALLY CAME TO N.Y TO DESTROY THE KNICKS ALL JOKES AISIDE HE HAS DONE A VERY GOOD TO DESTROYING THE KNICKS.ITZ SAD I'M A BIG FAN I CAN ALSO PLAY THE POINT GUARD SPOT BETTER THAN ANY1 ON THE KNICKS AS A TEAM P.G.SORRY KNICKS DIE HARD FANS HOPEFULLY WE GET THE #1 PICK THEN TRADE IT.LOL.....DON'T 4GET ZEKE TTHREW AWAY A SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK=NICHOLS SO WE ONLY HAVE 1 PICK UNLESS WE TRADE..STAY TUNED FOR MORE KNOWLEDGE
The Knicks really need to just start from scratch. Never thought I'd say that with the potential this team seemed to have, but it's true.
They are just a terribly constructed group that cannot and will not play well together on a consistent basis. Maybe if they were out in Minnesota or something, and had time to gel without having the spotlight on them, but it's not happening here. With this loss to the lowly Sonics, the season is all but done, barring some mid-season moves.
Trade Curry while he still might have value. At least Randolph plays with some heart.
We're just playing for ping-pong balls at this point, fellas.
Glass half-empty: This laughing-stock of a team was well-rested and lost at home to the 2nd worst team in the league -- who played last night. That's as low as you can go.
Glass half-full: Every loss is another few ping-pong balls in our favor.
If Dolan had any intelligence he wouldn't fire Isiah. He'd just change his job description. After hiring a new GM and coach, he'd send out Isiah to start scouting next year's lottery class. And probably the year after that, too.
We're just playing for ping-pong balls at this point, fellas.
Glass half-empty: This laughing-stock of a team was well-rested and lost at home to the 2nd worst team in the league -- who played last night. That's as low as you can go.
Glass half-full: Every loss is another few ping-pong balls in our favor.
If Dolan had any intelligence he wouldn't fire Isiah. He'd just change his job description. After hiring a new GM and coach, he'd send out Isiah to start scouting next year's lottery class. And probably the year after that, too.
You stumped me Alan, I guessed Rod Strickland, who despite some very good numbers, never made an All Star team.
It kills me to think about ping pong balls in December.
What a waste; I just got a Panasonic 50 inch plasma. Yep, that was a good looking loss.
Dolan is not getting a Christmas card from me.
Well we loose again.Thats becoming a sure sound. Where did we go wrong. I think the team needs a change big change. Need to trade players and get rid of the head coach. Trade Eddy Curry for Pau Gasol. He can play Center in the east. He plays hard all the time plays defense and rebounds the ball well. Even does something Eddy does not do blocks shots. I honestly think that even though he has not played for a few games Marbury has to go also. He does not play hard or defense all the time. He is being ask to play hard but he does not care. To me he has lost the love of the game. I think he is like a factory worker that does not like his job. Just does it cus. If no one wants him we should let him go. Buy him out. He is disturbing our young players. We should also look at what it would cost to get Ron Artest. Maybe some of our young Even maybe David Lee. But I think Ron is an upgrade big time. Jamel Crawford has to be a smater player. He has the potential to be an allstar player but he shuts to much way too much does not share the ball. Does not make the big men better players. We should look to see what SG might be abailable. Dont know any takers. But Maybe change might make some players play harder. Just like I said before Something has to happen. At the end is in Jim Doland's hand. Whether we are happy or sad about our team. When we win Im happy. When we loose I can take it. But like this it makes me sick cus Im waiting for change to be Happy and is not in my control......
With the selection of Noah by the Bulls, many of Isiah’s most outspoken defenders declared the trade a slamdunk in the Knicks’ favor. (And, of course, a coup for Lord Thomas.) As Curry settles into life as a back-up center on a terrible team . . . the trade is revealed over time to be an offensive foul . . . against New York.
Many of the same rabid Isiah defenders were also claiming Curry was superior to Howard and Crawford superior to Wade. Along with lots of predictions of 48 and 50 wins. They’ll be lucky to win half that many. Maybe half is harsh . . . an exaggeration. But not as much of an exaggeration as saying Curry and Crawford are better than Howard and Wade. Or that the Knicks will win 50 games this year. If they hit a good stretch . . . hey . . . I don’t think 30 wins is beyond their grasp this year. Whatta waste . . .
Keep d’em ping-pong balls comin’ . . .
Mark Jackson. A great Knick. I still wish we hadn't drafted him. We swapped our first round pick for the #18 (Jax) and Gerald Henderson. Our traded pick ended up being Scottie Pippen. Jax was a fine player. Pippen a HOFer. Oh yeah, Henderson played about half a lackluster season for the Knicks.
That trade was brought to you by Scotty Sterling, the man who traded Robert Parish and the #3 pick in the 1980 draft for the #1 pick. They used the #1 pick on ..... ta da.... Joe Barry Carroll.
Oh yeah, the Celtics picked Kevin McHale with the #3.
Knowledge said: I TOLD YALL ALREADY THE KNICKS ARE GOING TO WIN 22 GAMES WIN THE LOTTERY AN HAVE TO GIVE IT UP
my thought: I don't know where you get this. The Knicks #1 pick was traded, but is top 22 protected. As for 2nd rounders, chances are 90-1 against getting anything more than a bench player in the 2nd round, so don't sweat it that we traded it away. In almost any given trade you can probably get another team to throw in a 2nd rounder.
Hello All Disgusted, Miserable, Die-Hard Knick Fans,
Sunday December 30th 2007
11:00 AM (Noon Game)
Protest in front of MSG to OUST ISIAH.
The time has come to raise our voices.
Knicks vs. Bulls (Sure to be another pitiful loss!)
email: joeyvworks@yahoo.com
Step up and push to get Isiah removed!