I scheduled my off days for this weekend so I was not present for Isiah's emotional chat with the media following Saturday's practice. Newsday's Anthony Rieber was there in my place and filed this report for Sunday's print edition. C. Vivian Stringer apologized to Isiah for her criticism of what he said in his video deposition for the sexual harassment trial.
I know most of you would prefer to talk basketball here, especially with the season opening in five days. Ken Berger and I did a full preview of the Knicks and NBA season in Sunday's Newsday. Check it out and let me hear what you think.
Judging from his conversation with reporters after Saturday'a practice, not to mention his uncharacteristically sullen mood lately, you can't not notice that Isiah is clearly wearing down from the continued fallout of this trial.
But it seems not as much from the jury decision against him as his comments in that deposition. He and James Dolan -- sure is interesting how Jimmy D has yet to show any real public support for his coach -- can appeal the jury decision, but there's nothing Thomas can do about the court of public opinion other than continue to explain himself.
Watch the 11-minute deposition played for the jury here (Please be advised it is unedited, so there is some strong language) and see for yourself. These 11 minutes were edited from about seven hours of full deposition. The 11 minutes were used in court as the most important of the deposition. There was one juror caught sleeping during the trial, so you can imagine the snoring that would be going on if they had to sit through the entire seven hours.
What is fact is that this tape was edited by Anucha Browne Sanders' lawyers and presented to the court at the trial. What is also fact is that the MSG lawyers had the right to object to the video, but didn't.
The lawyer who interviewed Isiah in this video asked him about a Garden executive, Frank Murphy, who is a white male, about an incident when Browne Sanders says Murphy called her a "bitch." Thomas was asked if that violated an employee code of conduct.
"Let me put it to you this way, that would have violated my code of conduct, OK?" Thomas replies.
Then after a pause, Isiah adds, "And, maybe I’m not supposed to go there, but I’m going to go there anyway, a white man calling a black female ‘that,’ it’s on with me too. I’m not tolerating that, I’m not accepting that. So if it's going down that road, with a black female and a white male saying that to her, that's a problem for me. Screw this conduct thing.”
The clip ends there and jumps about 42 minutes ahead (there is a clock in the bottom right corner) in the interview (Fact: we don't know if this was a break in the deposition or if the interview continued in another direction).
The lawyer says, "You stated earlier that you found it offensive for a white man to call a black woman a bitch. Do you remember that testimony?"
Isiah (nodding): "Mm-hm."
Lawyer: "Please say 'Yes.'"
Isiah: "Yes."
Lawyer: "Would you find it also offensive for a black man to call a black woman a bitch?"
Isiah pauses a minute, gestures with his hand as if he's considering the differences in his mind before he offers, “Not as much, no, and I’m sorry to say, I do make a distinction.”
Lawyer: "But if I'm correct from your earlier testimony, a male calling a woman a bitch you find to be offensive?"
Isiah: "Most definitely."
Lawyer: "Black or white?"
Isiah: "Black or white. But, a white male calling a black female a bitch is highly offensive to me.”
The interview moves on to Thomas' relationship with Browne Sanders. It's actually almost comical to hear Thomas seriously discuss the usage issues of the word "bitch" in one breath and then hear the lawyer abruptly ask, "Mr. Thomas, do you find Ms. Sanders attractive?"
But that is the extend of the comment that made headlines. You can see that by removing the comment from it's context, the statement "Not as much, no" in response to whether or not he found it offensive for a black man to call a black woman a bitch is condemnable. But within the context of the conversation -- knowing the point Isiah was going out of his way to make -- you eventually see that he does acknowledge that black or white, the use of the word toward the woman is offensive.
What he revealed was, in his mind, there are varying degrees, depending on race, which is also an issue. Thomas has since explained that his statement about the higher sensitivity of a white man calling a black woman a "bitch" has to do with the racial undertones of it.
Isiah reveals that he does see the word in different colors. This notion that we're all the same and should be viewed the same is misguided from a socialogical standpoint. That doesn't mean we can accept, appreciate and respect our differences. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't be treated the same.
But we can't expect to be viewed the same.
Fact is, Isiah never said it was not offensive for a black man to call a black woman a bitch, he said it was more offensive to him for a white man to do it. But the deposition clearly states that he acknowledged it was offensive, black or white. Period.
He created this headache for himself by deciding to go there in the deposition. He is free to speak his mind, but others are also free to criticize him for it. As long as they have all of the facts.
Comments (64)
I think it's hypocritical for people to condemn him for this comment. He's actually thinking deeply into the matter, because race does matter in this country. It shouldn't, but it does, and that's why he says "I'm sorry to say." If a white man calls a white woman something, it may be OK. But it would not be OK for a black man to use the exact same words toward a white woman. And it's the same if the colors are reversed. And, yes, it's bad aim a derogatory at anyone, female, male, black, or white.
This type of misuse of information on the part of certain media outlets that were Anucha cheerleaders during the trial are the main reason there usually isn't much "truthiness" or plane genuine comments comming out of politicians or organizational leaders now days. Everyone is concerned with simply "winning" the argument and rely on interpretting comments from the other side anyway possible so that they seem wrong. The truth isn't relevant as long as you can twist or isolate a certain comment to make the person seem wrong or to stregthen your argument. Sadly, the truth doesn't matter anymore. Theres a great book on this, "The Argument Culture" which details this, but most of us don't have to read it to see that what I am pointing out exists. Its really sad especially since a lot of America does not have the time, patience, or know-how to research an issue to truly know both sides of it and then make an independent decision as to where they stand. Isiah was trying to be honest and thorough in his explanations, but underestimated the malicious intent of his enemies to isolate his comments in order to strengthen their cases. He should have known better. At the same time, IMAGINE just how better the world would be if Isiah could spoken freely about the TRUTH. Atleast you tried ISIAH.
Alfredo
yeah the rutgers coach back-tracked after isiaih sweet talked her with his lies. remember isiaih is and has always been a con man, a pretty good one at that
"he is a TOTAL FAILURE! Where does the love for this complete loser come from????" - LMAO
you new yorkers wanna buy the MassPike?
Go RedSox
Are you people crazy? We are talking about MSG, a multi billion dollar corporation. Calling anyone a "bitch", cursing and speaking with blatant racist overtures are so blatantly outrageous in such a corporate environment is invoncievable. Only in an organization as backwards and with such absence of true leadership is this behavior tolerated. In any other corporate environment in this country or any other, Isaiah and his entourage would not only have been fired immediately but the corporation would have hastily examined the culture of the company that allowed such blatant unprofessional behavior. It pains me to say this, but as long as "Jimmy" Dolan believes that this is how one runs a corporation (and unfortunately there are no signs pointing to his or Isaiahs ouster) the Knicks will remain a rudderless mess in one of the most highly competitive industries in the world. Isaiah, Jimmy and their ilk should not only be run out of town, but in any other world that is not overrun by insanity they would never hold another job with responsibility. Only the knicks. We the fans suffer
Rutgers women's basketball coach C. Vivian Stringer spoke yesterday with Thomas, the Knicks' coach and president, and apologized for critical comments she made Friday on ESPN...
The whole situation is most regrettable. It was not my position to insult Mr. Thomas in any way. I responded to a question of which I had partial information and was not aware of the full text of Mr. Thomas' statement.
I spoke to Isiah this morning and have apologized. I am hoping we can now get back to basketball."
I am hoping we can now get back to basketball."
I am hoping we can now get back to basketball."
I am hoping we can now get back to basketball."
I am hoping we can now get back to basketball."
JUST WATCH THE VIDEO REDSOX FAN and good luck to your team...even the edited 11min clip tells what I just typed is accurate.
No lies no stating what media persons with agendas preach , just finding facts on my own.
the media doesn't think for me...I know they lie 90% of the time, it's a business , thats why most news is sex and violence,...thats what sells.
Most people are miserable and they get off on the misfortunes of others, misery loves company. WHICH IS WHY A REDSOX FAN WITH A TEAM ON THE BRINK OF WINNING IT ALL , COMES TO THIS BLOG TO SPEW VENOM, BECAUSE HE'S A MISERABLE LOSER. HE'S NOT A KNICK FAN. YOU WONT SEE ME AT A REDSOX BLOG.
She APOLOGIZED now that she knows the truth of what Isiah said.
If a Jew called a Jew the B-word, it would have a different impact if a Palestinian called a Jew the B-word. Just common sense folks.
Or how about if a terrorist called a 9/11 victim's female family member the B-word. It's a much different impact from let's say a white guy saying it.
Being called the B-word is hurtful anyway you slice it but, there is no denying the impact of your most noted historical oppressor/terrorizer/enemy calling you the B-word.
Just like a Miami heat Knick rivalry, or knicks vs Bulls , some games have more meaning , more of an impact. It doesn't mean when these teams play other teams the games aren't that hotly contested just not as "IMPACTFUL". Just common sense folks
Isiah was found guilty by a jury of his peers .
O.J Simpson was found "innocent" by a jury of his peers .
The Judicial System works...(sarcasm)
Eli,
Look what seems to have happened at MSG is not cool at all. HOwever you say that at any other corporate environment in this country or another Isiah and his entourage would have been fired immediately. Are you talking before or after the court decision.
If you are talking before the decision are you saying that never in any other company are their situations like the following.
1) Guy is getting a lot of heat from a female supervisor. He is in the bathroom with one of his boys and says, "I am tired of that bitch f---king with me.
2) New woman comes to work at company. Guys in bathroom again says to his friend, "I sure have a few positions that Suzy can apply for at my place".
3) Man and women have a business disagreement during a group meeting. The next day they meet in the elevator. Guy says hello and woman doesn't respond, Guy says, "what you no love for me today?"
Didn't Marv Albert getaway with ape pple
ie ating
look for the clues to see what I meant to say.the censors wouldn't allow that word.
RAP + E = MARV
alan,
thanks for this post. i've been waiting for someone to clarify this situation. i knew it had to be more nuanced than the screaming headlines would indicate.
isiaih was clearly lying through his teeth.
this convicted predator is a con man and everyone knows that
he is a better liar than my husband
isiaih must be stopped
Thanks, Alan – you went one step better than just delivering the transcript. And your description seems balanced and fair. Moreover, it appears to agree with conclusions I’ve read elsewhere of people who’ve seen all the relevant sections of the deposition. That’s good enough for me. I accept the fact that his true meaning was, to borrow a phrase, lost or misconstrued. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that Sanders’ lawyers would use the deposition in this way. It’s not their only legal tactic I found sleazy.
I only started thinking about all this again after reading your piece on the web on Saturday about Stringer. Not even so much because of what she said, but because of what he said. Those kinds of comments, to me, demand going the next step. He deserved to be heard in full . . . either to prove his meaning was misrepresented . . . or to be shown to be hiding behind a tired old excuse, and exposed for it.
In general, I don’t like the man much, but he deserved that. I’m also resigned to the fact that not only is he the coach this year, like it or not. I also realized that he is, at this point, the only viable option for a coach for this team for this season. I realized that if I won Publisher’s Clearing House next week and bought the team . . . I’d keep him as coach, at least for this year. The last thing that team needs now would be the disruption of a coaching change. We’ve got to give him the year to see what he can do with the team he put together. Given all that . . . it would be great to have as few ancillary distractions hanging over him, and by extension, the team, as possible.
That’s why the appeal really worries me. I can understand why he’d want to clear his name by appealing the verdict. But what happens if that process coincides with the basketball season? Then he and Dolan will have done the team a great disservice by appealing. I understand it’s their right. I understand why they’d want to do it. And I’m sure there would be benefits to the team were they to be vindicated. But isn’t it also possible that they would be doing the team a huge disservice, if another trial were to become the mother of all distractions during a basketball season? The consensus seems to be that the process is a long one. We can only hope so. If last summer was a circus, just wait until Isiah’s in court all day, and courtside all night . . .
The press creates and prints stories about
Isiah Thomas--quoting Al Sharpton and C.
Vivian Stringer one day, but not bothering
to quote them the next day, when after
speaking personally to Isiah, they attain more
information, hear his version of events, and subsequently decide to retract their prior statements. The retraction is or correction is rarely if ever printed, so that the public learns little or nothing of the truth. So much for responsiblie journalism in the New York tabloids.
The writer here has captured the essence that is missing from any other examination of this I have seen. The shame is that soundbite culture is hard to combat. Good lawyers know that. Unethical lawyers will exploit that.
The writer has done one better than the lawyers to actually identify the core point that Thomas made, though in a way that hurt him: race matters. He left that to implication, and that made it easy to take the grade-school logician's view that he believes unequivocally that it's ok to refer to someone like that.
I was wondering all this time about what he meant when he was saying look at the tape because all reports made this b-word case against him sound pretty unassailable.
Kevin-
Definitely sexual harrasment and unprofessional behavior occur in the corporate environment. A sign of a well run company is one that at best creates an environment where if such behavior does exist, it is nipped in the bud and addressed internally. If something progresses to the point of a lawsuit, which indicates a complete failure of a companies internal functionality and leadership (which obviously failed to a) adequately understand what is occuring in its offices and b) to take seriously accusations of such behavior) and all attempts to distance itself from the perpetrators. All of this is magnified by the fact that a professional sports team is a magnet for public scrutiny in the media and an arena in which racial and sexist tensions often come to the forefront. All of this indicates that a properly run company would never end up in this situation and if it did, would act decisively and prudently to distance itself from the situation and try to rectify the causes of the problems in the workplace. We the fans suffer for this embarrasment that calls itself management.
alan, thank you so much for writing this. if only we could get this front page in the same way his misconstrued comments were... it's really awful...
personally, I'd be surprised if he didn't find it more offensive for a white man to call a black woman a bitch because of the obvious, and sadly inherent racial undertones in that situation.
that said... thanks for being the best knicks blogger/writer in nyc. seriously, the tone, and enthusiasm you have for the team is refreshing, and I think more in line with where the fans (ie me as a fan) are at. we know the teams got problems, but what are you gonna do start rooting for the Nets?
TRADE RUMORS:
3 team trade proposal..................
(1) Lakers get:
J. Oneal (from Indiana)
E. Curry (from NY)
J. Crawford (from NY)
W. Chandler (from NY)
M. Rose (from NY)
Jeff Foster (from Indiana)
(2 ) Indiana gets:
L.Odom (from LA)
D.Lee (from NY)
Sasha Vujacic (from LA)
F. Jones (from NY)
(3) Knicks get:
K. Bryant (from LA)
Kwame Brown (cap relief from LA)
Ronny Turiaf (from LA)
Knicks new starting line up:
Steph
Kobe
Q-Rich
Kwame Brown
Zach
Our Bench:
R. Balkman
Nate
Jeffreys
Collins
Ronny Turiaf
D. Nichols (resign him)
P. J. Brown (sign him)
J. James (unfortunately)
R. Morris
AH2O
What do you guys think about this trade? Are we better? Do you like the cap relief we would get when Kwame Brown contract (over $9 million) comes off the books ? Are we giving up too much? Which team wins with this trade or is it a fair trade?
Knicks fan for life.........GO NY, GO NY, GO!!!
Do not like trade. Kobe would still be a malcontent who would opt out in two years as that team would not compete for championship. Kwame Brown has moved himself to having the name Kwamelakandi as in Michael Olowokandi. He is not ready for prime time. Turiaf is an energy player like Lee but he is not as good as Lee at this point. 10- points 10 rebounds seem to find Lee just by his showing up. AH20 is done. we have learned that in pre season. NIchols is not as good as Chander who is younger but more NBA ready right now.
The Knicks lack the talent to acquire The Rapist from the Lakers.
Aside from Renaldo Balkman, David Lee, and maybe Quentin Richardson, the Knicks simply have nothing the Lakers want or need.
Eli throws a touchdown pass.
"Are you people crazy? We are talking about MSG, a multi billion dollar corporation. Calling anyone a "bitch", cursing and speaking with blatant racist overtures are so blatantly outrageous in such a corporate environment is invoncievable. Only in an organization as backwards and with such absence of true leadership is this behavior tolerated. In any other corporate environment in this country or any other, Isaiah and his entourage would not only have been fired immediately but the corporation would have hastily examined the culture of the company that allowed such blatant unprofessional behavior. It pains me to say this, but as long as "Jimmy" Dolan believes that this is how one runs a corporation (and unfortunately there are no signs pointing to his or Isaiahs ouster) the Knicks will remain a rudderless mess in one of the most highly competitive industries in the world. Isaiah, Jimmy and their ilk should not only be run out of town, but in any other world that is not overrun by insanity they would never hold another job with responsibility. Only the knicks. We the fans suffer"
Eli,
I am by no means condoning what supposedly happened at MSG but lets not be naive to thing that the criteria for a good company is that things of this nature do not happen. They do. I am also not defending the recent track record of Dolanville. I can't I am a Cablevision customer so I know who bad they run s--t:). But lets be real most companies sweep this stuff under the rug as opposed to deal with it in the manner you describe. If more dealt with it in the manner you outline it would cease to be a problem. Corporate America in spite of advances is still largely a good ole boy endeavor
Comanies that I personally know of that such allegations have been brought forth
Viacom
CBS
Disney
NYPD
Los Angeles Fire Department
AOL/Time Warner
United States Congress
What most people are missing here with condemning Isiah and asking David Stern to punish him and MSG is that this is a civil trial with a much lesser burden of proof than a criminal trial. All that matters in a civil trial is who the jury believes, there is no weapon or bloddy glove (I'm not touching that), just he said, she said. The claims in civil trials are heavily exagerated, for example:
In divorce papers Heather Mills claims that Paul McCartney physically abused her including stabbing her and knocking her down while pregannt. Does anyone believe this? If so I don't see the meida writing about it taking sides like they do against Isiah. Most of those guys grew up with the Beatles and can't believe the guy who wrote "Hey Jude" could do such a thing. But since they have a bias against Isiah they report Brown-Sanders claims as fact. Instead of just covering the story. Look at most civil claims involving famous people and you will see more of the same.
Do I think that Isiah wanted to sleep with Anucha? Absolutely not, does anyone?
Was there a hostile work environment at MSG? That's strong, I think there was a boy's club atmosphere but I also think that Anucha played the game as well. Does anyone think the intern felt obligated to bang Steph? I think MSG should have to pay for that environment but not to the tune of what the jury ruled. An appeal will greatly reduce this.
Alan thanks again for this type of reporting.
Good point Kevin. Nice attempt.
Steph isn't the first to sleep with an intern in the NBA. Magic banged half of L.A. and contracted HIV. He's now part owner and a poster child for the a "respected" business man and role model.
Zeke is hated for being "Zeke". Old blue eyes said a man is one who says what he feels, not the words of one who kneel's. Isiah is an exec of one of the greatest NBA franchises in NY. If he get's fired at least he can say did it his way.
And if the Knicks win it all...
They cut 3 statement together and made it seem like he said it's OK for a black man to call a woman a bitch. I told you guys. ABS is a lying husler looking for a handout. Ye so quick to judge should look at yourselves
Damn, Allan – you’ve had a busy weekend. Thanks for the preview. Little bit of a cop-out at the end, however. Those numbers – The Hahn Index (?, like Harper's?) – are good for context. But I thought you were gearing up to go out on a limb, and make some predictions.
Do you think they have more than 41 wins in them? Will NY send a player to the All-star game? (Does Zach have the best chance of being that player? Or Eddy?) Do you think Isiah will make a big move during the season? Is he being patient? Meaning he’s waiting a little while because he wants to see how what he’s got will evolve? Or is he already looking to do something? I know, it’s not a mailbag. Just curious . . .
I agree that it's unacceptable for a Black man to call a women a bitch, and if a White man does it reaches racial over tones.
So what appears to be the problem?
Z where did you hear of that trade ? That would be horrible for us. Kobe would never approve it.
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The CDC in Atlanta is looking for the carrier's of
the newest drug resistant disease called Mark Rot!
It is self contained so no need to panic. I wiould urge
every American to call the CDC upon his next post and
tell us the time of his posting,
Please Call 1-800-Mark Rot.
All calls will be confidential.
"What most people are missing here with condemning Isiah and asking David Stern to punish him and MSG is that this is a civil trial with a much lesser burden of proof than a criminal trial."
Marzak,
You're now trying the oldest trick in the book: modifying the story to suit your needs.
In the months leading up to the Isiah Thomas trial, the Certain Alleged Supporter of the Knicks (CASKs), otherwise known as a Possette, argued that a jury of his peers would acquit Thomas on the multiple charges of sexual harassments. The CASKs, led by Lives In New Jersey, Toils at Lou's Auto Body & Law School with offices in Camden, Trenton, and Newark, told us time and again that Zeke did not need to make a deal with Anucha Browne Sanders; that a jury of Zeke's peers would set him free from these unfounded charges.
Other CASKs/Possettes, such as Georgette, African, kandi, bronxboy in Maryland, Peaceman, and starburyfan, owner and operator of the CASK/Possette website, LoveIsiahOrDieSukkah or something like that, quickly parroted the argument of Lives In New Jersey, Toils at Lou's Auto Body & Law School . Time and time again, these CASKs/Possettes repeated that the jury of Zeke's peers would see through the charges made by Ms. Browne-Sanders and laugh her case out of court.
Then, of course, came the infamous testimonies of Stephon Marbury, Born Again father, husband, and self-admitted under oath during the trial Adulterer, and Zeke The Workplace Power Freak.
The jury of Zeke The Workplace Power Freak's peers reached a verdict: Liable. On multiple charges.
Now you, Marzak, wish to alter the goal posts, maintaining that while the jury found Zeke The Workplace Freak liable of multiple charges, the burden of proof was lower and thus the verdict should not carry as much weight.
Nice try, but sorry. Your fellow CASKs/Possettes established the standards for this case: JURY TRIAL. Now, you and your fellow CASKs/Possettes must live with those standards.
What ye CASK/Possette sows so shall ye CASK/Possette reap.
Please mis-spell words to use as bait, as this
pathogen is virulent and we need him for a control study!
Thanxsss, CDC
Mark
You are under Arrest! You have the right to remain silent.
Please don't run, turn yourself in.
CDC
keep it knicks and keep it real. starve the trolls. they're only here now because they were too intimitaed by the original fixers to show there idiotic opinions. step it up and we'll have em gone by the trade deadline and a winning record.
big ups to those who got me interested. i'm not an original but i ain't going nowhere. even if danny ainge and mike lupica continue to post with alias's.
real content like the mad poster mr hahn. it's a blog fellas. lighten up and read newsday. i'm getting a N8 da great hoody. who said trade em....oh, that was me.
damn, did i spell intimidated wrong. wtf.
... outstanding, unbiased report on the depostion ... as a lifelong Newsday ready and recent blog lurker, im almost stunned by the seemingly honest, and apparantly well researched reports here ... however, as a Knick fan, i am deeply worried about Isiah's body language and appearance during games and interviews ... he looks like a dead man walking (gaunt and ashen) ... the Knicks need to come out of the gate playing well and winning, because im worried that a bad start may cause Isiah's sullen disposition to spread to his players ... someone tell the mighty Zeke to keep his head up ... the core fans have already moved on ...
... "Guitar" Jimmy Dolan > Hank Steinbrenner ... but thats another story, for another blog perhaps ...
... speaking of Mr. Dolan ... it's become fashionable to bash this man as a slouching, slovenly, drunken, winner of the Ultimate Office Gene Pool ... but consider this ... he's been portrayed as lacking sensitivty towards people on several accounts, but i have never him commended ONCE or seen it mentioned ANYWHERE, that he did have the "sensitivity" to hire a staff that included African descendants in the most crucial positions (Zeke, Steve Mills, and Anucha B---- Sanders) ... as a man of color, that is to be respected and apprectiated ... his flaws, whether apparant, or perceived, are his to bear ... but his positive deeds should not be overlooked ... he's a human being ...
Alan, I was going to shoot you a personal e-mail but I believe you deserve public commendation for stepping up beyond the call of New York Style-Journalism. I read your story on Isiah and his relationship with his players and I was very impressed. We've had this discussion here before so I will not rehash any of my statements; I will simply say that what you have done here is fantastic and I thank you for the clarification. Just outstanding work.
Trane, thank you for popping over to KnickDefense to continue our conversation. I think Alan has done well to settle and address the concerns and issues we were discussing. And again, as you know, I greatly appreciate your comments and look forward to more engagement over the summer. I truly hope our discussions aren't about why Isiah needs to be fired though, because that will mean the Knicks are losing and we will again be on the same side of a sad discussion. LGK.
Trane, Harewood, Starburyfan, BAZ201, I think those articles deserve a roll call. I guess I'll have double duty on Wednesday. Love it.
Trane, of course "summer" was supposed to be "season."
That's why you are the man Alan, fair and balanced. "Finally, someone with a pulse to step out of the box and look at the whole picture without a bias agenda!"
As a black man I TOTALLY understand his position. Most media folks have jumped on this story as if it were real news. There are certain words blacks may use among ourselves, but whites simply can't go there ... or shouldn't go there. It true the other way around - there are certain things that i don't think whites would want blacks to say in reference to another white person.
There's really no story here - unless your trying to kill Isiah for being more thoughtful than others about the issue of race.
Good Post Alan
Lives – we’re fine. And one thing’s for sure. I’m not smart enough to know what this season will bring . . . but I’m pretty certain it’ll be interesting, whatever happens. I agree: To be continued . . .
As I said on SB’s site . . . I suppose I’m a Fixer at heart. I value Alan’s perspective and talents and access too highly. They form the foundation here. And I continue to believe he is making this site something the others don’t even dream to be. It’s not as though they aspire and fail. They don’t even try. Alan engages the conversation in ways the other guys don’t. “Defense” is a hybrid, of course. I mostly contrast Alan with Isola and Berman. Can you imagine Frank doing a Mailbag? We’d have to call out the National Guard to protect him.
A quick word about the article that impressed you. I too thought it was excellent. But I’m concerned the same way I was even before the “wacky” incident, when there were a lot of threats and attacks when, to my thinking, Alan’s only sin was pathological objectivity.
I think Alan is a guy who calls it the way he sees it. That’s why I remain here. But also why "knicksdefense" filled a need this site never could for many who blog there. The problem is that, because there’s a perception that many in the media are biased against Isiah, when Alan praises him . . . he’s lauded as a visionary. But he’s attacked mercilessly if a more balanced view includes both praise and criticism. That’s why I thought The Big Exodus was inevitable to some degree.
What I’m pleased about is that there appears to be some balancing out. Where some, like yourself and quite a few others now, are drifting back from time to time (as I drifted over there over the weekend). You guys will only enhance the quality of the Fixer dialogue. Alan is incapable of providing what SB's site offers. And that's fine. I think there’s room in the world for both. I don’t see them as competing. I think they complement one another. That's why I think it's misguided to count the number of hits each site gets, as though this is a contest. It's all one big dialogue.
>>>>>>>>>
Excellent stuff Alan, every time I read your writing I shake my head that a no talent hack like Isola is someone you consider a mentor...you have more talent and integrity than lazy Frank could ever dream of....
I defend Isiah to the end but that Curry trade is still an X on his resume in my opinion, this guy looks fatter than ever, he's 2 years away from not being able to make it up and down the court ala Sweetney, not a franchise talent in any way except his ability to score the ball...I really would like to see Crawford and Curry on the bench early and often this year to hammer the point home that lackadasical dumb basketball will not be accepted.....
On the flip side it's obvious Jared has put in crazy work this offseason, very impressed and I'm rooting for the kid...Is it me or does Lee's limitations as a player stand out even more now that we have more talent on the team?...
"Is it me or does Lee's limitations as a player stand out even more now that we have more talent on the team?..."
kandi,
It's you.
You simply HATE anyone who is NOT an African-American male.
kandi,
Another thing my I don't take a bath and I stink alot. But typing away, poking fun at the Knicks is what I do. Yes, I need a life, but so do Eddy Curry, right?
"He instructed assistant coach Brendan Suhr to tell the story of Wally Pipp, a worn-out tale in baseball circles but an unfamiliar fable to most of the Knicks' players. Thomas had printed copies of the story and put it in each of his players' lockers that morning, but Suhr's speech made sure they all paid close attention: Pipp was a very good player with the Yankees, but the first baseman sat out one game and a kid named Lou Gehrig took his place. Pipp never got his starting job back.
"'If you decide to take the day off,' Thomas said, 'Lou Gehrig will be waiting in the wings. Doesn't matter who you are.'"
Al,
That's rich. So rich I read it, ran to the can, and upchucked.
Can you honestly name a single Knicks' reserve with the talent, work ethic, desire, character, class, dignity, and impact on the game equivalent to that of Lou Gehrig?
Lou Gehrig? The Iron Horse? Greatest first baseman ever to play the game? Babe Ruth's bodyguard (without the SUV and St. John's intern)? Only left the game because of the disease, ALS, that later killed him? So great a ballplayer and even better a man that they named that disease, ALS, in his honor? Hall of Famer? The best. Period. End of story. No argument?
Heck, can you even name a Knicks' starter with the talent, work ethic, desire, character, class, dignity, and impact on the game equal to that of Lou Gehrig?
Of course you cannot. The Knicks have no legends. Not the current roster. Hell, no one in the history of the Knicks franchise (sorry Willis and Clyde) matches the likes of Lou Gehrig. We're talking LEGEND here, and not the legend-in-the-Possettes' mind variety.
The analysis continues:
"People have made a big deal about the $11.6-million suit won by Anucha Browne Sanders, but if Garden chairman James Dolan isn't upset about the $18.6 million still left on resounding mid-level-exception bust Jerome James' contract, the former can't possibly be much of an issue. (Of course, they can appeal the damages paid to Browne Sanders. If only they could do the same with James.)"
You're talking dollars and cents, yet you leave out the ongoing public relations nightmare impact. Throughout this season, not merely at every single stop on the road, but for 41 visits to Madison Square Garden, the issue of Isiah Thomas being found liable by a jury of his peers of multiple charges of workplace sexual harassment will hang over the franchise. The public relations situation is nothing short of a nightmare.
At every stop, the local scribes and cameras will raise this story. At every stop, the local Lard Butt & Rabid Mutt will pound this issue home.
Let's suppose, just for giggles, that one of Zeke's miscreants, say Fat Zach, his criminal record, and his parole officer, gets drunk at some strip club, starts a scuffle, and the black-and-whites show up. You don't think the headlines will read "Zeke's Sexual Freaks Go Wild - Again?" You don't think ESPN will be all over this story, and it won't be as cool as the other side of the pillow? You don't think the Jim Rome or Mike & The Sniveling Little Twerp In The Morning will gobble up such a story?
Do you ever think, son?
Further, did you even consider the possibility that the various ladies who make themselves shall we say, available?, to the Knicks' players, coaches, and certain media types on the highway will now see this as the perfect time to start lobbing allegations, real or imagined, against the franchise at some point this season? You know, something along the lines of either pay me or I'll run to the press? Every member of the Knicks, the coaching staff, and the media is now a target, courtesy of Zeke The Workplace Power Freak.
"The Knicks are loaded with foot soldiers who are loyal to Thomas for his willingness to give them a chance in New York. He made Stephon Marbury's childhood dream of playing for the Knicks come true. He put the faith of two unprotected lottery draft picks into a longterm project named Eddy Curry. He wiped the slate clean for trouble magnet Zach Randolph."
Zeke gave big money and Big Apple glitter to three players who are not worth their collective weights, and the thuggish posses, in spit. Marbury, Born Again father, husband, and self-admitted under oath in a court of law Adulterer, is a career LOSER. Lazy Eddy is not a project; Lazy Eddy is a disaster area. Unwilling to rebound. Unable to make free throws or pass out of the low block. Unmotivated towards playing defense. Fat Zach is an arrest waiting to happen, a lousy low-block defender, chronically out of shape, and a torn ACL waiting to happen.
"'Beside the fact that he brought every single one of us here,' Curry said, 'he treats us like equals.'"
Yeah, everyone Zeke The Workplace Power Freak brought in, save Quentin Richardson, Malik Rose, David Lee, Renaldo Balkman, and MAYBE Fred Jones and/or Wilson Chandler, is an overpaid, unmotivated, under-performing bum who lacks the desire and dedication necessary to call himself a professional basketball player, much less a winner on this level.
"And then there was the Allan Houston comeback. The former Knicks star parachuted into camp with no roster spots open. Thomas remained respectful of Houston, but the underlying issue was evident."
Blatantly evident. The Knicks needed some positive press. What better way to get good ink than to give Houston, a classy, well-spoken, married, Connecticut resident who hosts presidential campaign fund raisers, dabbles in the media business, and excelled on the court during his heyday, a chance to recapture his glory lost to injury? Bringing in Houston cost the Knicks nothing. He had no chance of making the club. And all the Houston Returns? stories gave the Knicks solid public relations and days free of more post-liable analysis of Zeke The Workplace Power Freak, Chuck Dolan's punk, and the Coney Island Cupcake.
In all, Al, you really bent over and kissed backside on that story. You're a real Pip, Al, and I'm not referring to Lou Gehrig's predecessor or Michael Jordan's wing man.
Mark,
I love you, man. Will you be my lover. Then we can leave Isiah together and live in bliss for ever.
Love, IMG
IMG, and everyone: Don't feed the trolls.
Mark,
You're pathetic, man.
Go stand in front of a train.
Mark takes it in the ass for a living, didn't ya know? didn't ya know? didn't ya know?
Memo to: Certain Alleged Supporters of the Knicks (CASKs), otherwise known as Possettes
Topic: Feeble Attempts to Discredit Me
Children, at 12:04 p.m. Oct. 29, a member of the CASK/Possette Nation, no doubt acting on orders from the CASK/Possette Clubhouse and/or starburyfan's new website, LoveIsiahOrDieSukkah or something like that, attempted to assume my identity and wrote a short post designed, one with a logical mind would reason, to embarrass me in some childish fashion.
Kids, apart from the fact that you simply cannot match my skills of debate, intelligence, historical knowledge, and general class, you also fail to come anywhere near me in the most basic of all written necessities: proper grammar and spelling.
The pathetic CASK/Possette effort above included not one, but two grammatical and spelling errors. I make no such mistakes. The CASK/Possette Nation, owing to its fixation with racial slurs, homophobic statements, and general thuggery, serves as a Wasteland of the Written Word, a place where accurate grammar and spelling reside in distinction with dinosaurs, Edsels, and Dad at home. (For evidence of the latter, see Travis Henry, Evander Holyfield, and Shawn Kemp, who have combined to produce 25 children.)
Children, next time, I strongly suggest that you decline trying to claim my persona as part of some sort of toddler-like game. Match me you cannot; instead, you are left to whine, pout, and slam your fingers on the keyboard in the most juvenile, and always defeated, of ways.
And one more thing, I am by far the most intelligent human being to have ever graced any of you numbnutss lives.
Don't you forget it.
Actually, it would be " ... numbnuts' lives." A genuinely intellligent human being would know how to punctuate his insults correctly.
I know, I broke my own rule. (Couldn't resist.)
Gentlemen. If you don't feed a lost dog . . . he will stop coming to your door.
Let's us agree, as a community: Don't respond. Don't engage.
Don't feed the trolls.
ZEKE NEEDS TO GO LETS GET PHIL JACKSON FOR REAL.
KNICKS GOT TO MUCH TALENT TO SUCK AN THAT HAS TO DO WITH ZEKE.NUFF SAID
Trane rescues the English language at 17:42 p.m. Oct. 29. All may not yet be lost.
Then again, everyone gets lucky once in a while.
Nah, that's not fair. Nice catch on the spelling gaffe of the Certain Alleged Supporter of the Knicks (CASKs), otherwise known as a Possette. You displayed sound judgment and quickly noted the error in question.
Don't feed the trolls.
i saw the shout NJNY. peace.
@ Mark..
" And one more thing, I am by far the most intelligent human being to have ever graced any of you numbnutss lives.
Don't you forget it."
Shaking my head....
We'll never forget, "numbnutss", I mean Mark.
You are one miserable fellow.
How does it feel to be alone on an island?
AH, great blog despite some people.
Don't feed the troll.
Or
Never wrestle with a pig.
Mark:
I noticed you left off Mardy Collins on your list of Knicks that you like. What say you?
Alan,
Love the blog! Thanks for helping a Knick fan stationed outside NY keep up with the team!
There was an funny (I thought) "rant on Adult Swim about the Knicks. Check it out at http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=8a25c39215eafd820115ec666a0c0001.
And before you flame me, it is just a joke people :)
This issue has been beaten to death but let me add one more dig.
Do you know what I find the most ironic in this Isiah situation? The fact that everybody talks about race and black/white thing but Isiah got sued by a black woman and got criticized by Sharpton and Stringer who are both black. I think that really hurt him. Here he was promoting racial sensitivity and got bashed by his brothers and sued by his sisters.
That would make anybody think twice.
Darren,
Good catch. My mistake.
I should have included Mardy Collins in the list of acceptable kids. Long. Sees the floor well. Can pass in traffic and on the wing. Moves his feet on defense, though, like most kids, he's still got a lot to learn. Shoots surprising well for a Temple product. I'm a big Coach Chaney fan, but shooting and scoring have never been the strong suits of the Owls. Kid even rebounded well last year after that stupid thug routine against the Nuggets. Showed that he had a good head on his shoulders. Worked hard. Played well when given the chance late in the season.
Biggest problem for Collins is contracts. The overpaid Stephon Marbury and the overpaid Pop Gun Crawford (who, on-court shot selection aside, I sincerely applaud for his work with our public school system) lock up two spots. The overpaid Jared Jeffries requires court time, moving Quentin Richardson back to the two-spot on occasion and further cutting into Collins's minutes.
And, of course, Zeke will try to prove to everyone that he was correct when he drafted Nate Robinson and play the undersized, selfish, SportsCenter-centric Little Man Nate in the backcourt. Little Man Nate lacks a position, cannot play position defense, and cannot run the show from the point. Give me Collins, nine inches taller, over Little Man Nate.
Don't expect too much from Collins this season unless the injury parade starts again. Next year, with any luck, Little Man Nate will be playing in Spain, the Knicks can ship Marbury and his Italy-bound contract to the Hawks for a bag of worn jockstraps, and the sometimes ailing combo of Richardson and Jeffries will supplement each other, FINALLY freeing up floor time for Collins.
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