As I said earlier this week, I caught up with Nate Robinson at his basketball camp up in Mt. Kisco. We've got a story running in the Sunday edition with the good stuff (be sure to check it out). But here I'll share with you what fell onto the cutting room floor....
On his MVP at the Las Vegas Summer League: “Summer league, it was my team. I was the point guard. It was different.”
On being the next starting PG of the Knicks, once Marbury does his Italian Beckham thing: “I just want to play. Period. Regardless if I’m going to be out there playing point guard or the two . . . Whoever’s out there, I just want to play. I want to be part of the team that is going to make the playoffs and send New York on a wonderful ride.”
On hearing his name come up in trade rumors: “I couldn’t imagine seeing me in another uniform. I love the Knicks. I love the colors, they’re my high school colors – orange and blue – I don’t know what else to say. I couldn’t see myself on another team.”
On playing at the Garden: "I can never imagine playing anywhere else."
On how a long offseason feels: “When you go home early, you have too much time on your hands. Watching all these teams playing, you think ‘We should be playing right now.’ It hurts inside knowing that our team, on paper, is ridiculous.”
On the Knick players getting together over the past few weeks at the MSG Training Center to work out: “My rookie year, guys didn’t come in. To be real, guys didn’t come in. My sophomore year, guys didn’t come in . . . Now, it’s like, guys are serious. Everybody that came in and worked out and played and been here. And that’s a good thing.”
The print edition story obviously goes much deeper. I was pretty up front with him about how I felt about his game. I told him I was one of his toughest critics (he nodded, nice to know he's reading!), but I explained why: You've got so much ability. God-given ability. Million dollar tools in a 10-cent toolbox.
Ya 5-foot nuthin. A-hundred an' nuthin . . .
Nate took it all in and gave good replies.
I can't get too excited, however. Training camp is still 5 weeks away. I need to see it to believe it. Sorry, my Daddy made me that way.
You know the class-clown is still there inside him, probably always will be. And he's good at running his game with the media. He knows what answers you are looking for. He plays the role. But if some of the things we talked about, things he's doing this offseason, are all legit, then Nate might have finally started growing up.
Might. Not having Steve Francis around will help things. Francis was known to mock the role as a bench player and get Nate to lose his focus on the bench, which always seemed to land him in Isiah's doghouse. I'll never forget Francis and Nate goofing off on the bench in Toronto when Isiah called Nate's number and Nate didn't hear him.
He heard him the second time, though.
"Nate! Stop f---ing around!"
There were those awful pregame practices, such as scoffing down greasy fast food, messing around on the court and focus-less catch-and-shoot routines that, for all intents and purposes, were nothing more than throwing balls into the air. I wrote about it during the season. Sure, the guy loves to have fun. I appreciate his ability to enjoy the moment and his love for interacting with kids.
But when it's time to get down to business and you don't take yourself seriously, who else is going to?
One Knick player approached me after the story ran and said, "Damn, you were rough on little Nate."
I replied, "But was it accurate?"
The player smiled. "I'm just saying you were a little rough. But you were also dead-on."
With all this still fresh in my memory, I closed the conversation with Nate this way:
"So you still shooting those half-court shots?"
"Always," he said without hesitation.
"C'mon, why?"
"I end my workouts that way," he said. "Gotta leave on a make. You can't walk off the court with a miss."
* *
- Once more about Allan Houston: what I've been told is the Knicks have little interest. Jim Dolan allows him to work out up at the MSG Training Center, but he's no longer their property and likely won't be. Maybe if the Celtics don't wind up signing Reggie Miller they'll consider Allan Houston. Orlando would be a good fit, in my opinion, but then again, I haven't seen him play since his recovery from microfracture surgery. I have no idea what he can and can't do.
- Thanks for the positive feedback about the VBK blog. I'm not one to bore anyone with stories of my past and unheralded, mostly uninteresting "career," but I felt like sharing that particular story. I was a little concerned about how it would be received, but my Fixers go deeper than Jamal Crawford with the clock winding down. I appreciate that.
- Today was my mom's birthday. She's over 30. That's all she'll admit. Or is it remember? We'd probably have put her in a home by now, but we need her to sign the checks for all the construction we're doing at the house. We tell her it's money for her prescriptions. She asked why there were men building a new roof on my house and we told her that she was looking at the neighbor's house. We then put on a TiVo'd episode of Golden Girls and handed her back her sewing needle. The kids need school clothes.
Happy Birthday Mom!
Sitting here I'm thinkin back to a time when I was young
My memories are clear as day
I'm listening to the dishes clink you were downstairs you would sing songs of praise
and all the time we laughing with you and all the time that you stay true to us and I will say
And I thank you
Will always thank you
More than you would know and I could ever show
And I love you
Will always love you
Theres nothing I won't do to say these words to you that
You will live forever
Always, always and forever. - Good Charlotte
Have a good weekend.
Comments (171)
Great post Alan,
I am also very close with my mom...
Little Nate...wow!!!
I also cannot see him playing on another team. I've been saying from the beginning that we should keep Nate.
There is no other player in the league like him. You can argue that Boykins is just like him but Nate is much, much stronger than Earl.....and he's a great finisher at the hole.
I love his energy and what he brings off the bench. How many points was he averaging when he was getting Crawford's minutes at the end of the season?
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he average like 33 ppg for the last 7-10 games of the season?
The kid has game and he should be a keeper. I wouldn't even include him in a package to get Artest.
That is a great segway into my next topic.
What happens if Ron Artest gets traded to Miami?
They are only going to have him for one year. I don't think Miami has the balls to trade a very good young forward like Haslem for one year of Artest and his unpredictable acts. If they do it...nuff power to them.
Some reason or another, I can see Ron in a Knicks uniform either the beginning of this upcoming season or the beginning of next season.
I say we keep our team the way it is and see what happens. No more trades...let's see how a healthy Q can hold up and lets see Balkman off the bench right behind him.
Let's see Lee backup Zach and see how that develops.
Morris backing up Curry is going to be interesting.
Isiah has alot of different choices in the backcourt..he can have Nate back up Marbury or Crawford. He can also bring in Collins or he can even move Q to the 2 and play him together with Balkman.
Isiah has a lot of different line ups he can go with and anybody with just a little bit of knowledge of the game knows.....
THIS GAME IS ALL ABOUT MATCH UPS...
We have so many different weapons it's not even funny.
Hey Lives,
I understand what you mean about the dream team not practicing and what not. Let's not forget...
The only country that was nice back then was USA. Every other country wasn't as advanced as they are now.
All you have to do is take a look at the amount of international players there are in the league today comapared to when the first dream team was out....the comparison is not even close.
I know your not saying if this Team USA were to play those same teams the first dream team played they wouldn't win?
They would blow them out just like the original team did....
What we are seeing right now is the greatest collection of talent ever assembled in the NBA.
Actually...we'll see that once Wade, Bosh and Arenas are actually playing.
Kobe, Lebron, Kidd, Wade, Carmello, Bosh, Arenas, Amare, Billups, Howard and Redd....Wow.
I love the original dream team but this team is just a little better.
I'll have more to stand on once we run through this little tournament but I'll really have my groundwork once we run through the olympics next year.
Good story on the second lil' general in NY Alan. I also appreciate your taking a look at the Alan Houston situation. I suppose that his relationship with Dolan got him that practice facility access. It doesn't seem like Lil' General (Zeke) really wants anything to do with the 90's Knicks. Remember how they fought his Pistons vigorously so none of them are in awe or afraid of Zeke's short temper.
DaVonn, the verdict is still out on whether this team is the best ever. We must not throw those words out "willy-nilly". Maybe you can get away with saying "the best I've ever seen live or assembled playing for college coach. For example, who is better than Ewing on that team? I know you love Kobe but do you honestly believe that Kobe is better than MJ? You will get many arguments on that point DaVonn. Finally, I feel a certain sense a joy to read your relaxed tone in this message. You are loving the guys we got (no homo) and not coveting other players under contract with other teams. Trust, if a trade must be made, it will be made. You can count on IT and Glen for that.
KFL
Great points Steady...
I agree...as far as big men go..we don't have one better than Ewing I can't deny that. Then you ask me if I actually think Kobe is a better player than Mike.
Ok...I can honestly sit here and say that Mike was the greatest player ever. However, I can also honestly sit here and say that Kobe is a better scorer than Mike....easily. Kobe would be the best scorer on the floor if those 2 teams were to play.
Now why don't you talk about the other important match up.
Lebron vs. Bird
That would be the biggest disadvantage on the court.
Then if you want to talk about the bench...
The original dream team doesnt have anybody that can stay with Wade or Arenas. You can try to say Pippen but I don't think he can stick Wade or Arenas. Arenas is someone that can score on anybody in the league. He is unguardable and we won't even talk about Wade.
Lebron, Kobe and Kidd are better than Mike, Magic and Bird.
Before you argue that statement...please think about it first.
Kobe, Mello, James & Arenas average well over 100 points alone.
Mike, Magic, Bird and Chuck or Ewing don't average that many points.
You can look at the same thing with the assists and rebounds.
This team averages more than the 1st team.
More to come....
And another thing I'd like to bring to everybody's attention is the fact we don't even have 2 of our best players.
Imagine if Shaq and KG would stop being selfish and would've actually joined this team?
Then this team would hands down be better than the 1st dream team.
Kidd
Kobe
Lebron
KG
Shaq
That should really be the staring 5.
Match that 5 up with the original dream team and you sit here and tell me their better.
The first dream team would get killed by that line up above.
There is no way around it...
Shaq would kill Patrick
KG would kill Charles
Lebron would kill Bird
Mike vs. Kobe...I'll give it to Mike because I know you all would jump down my throat if I didn't.
(however, Kobe would still be the high scorer on the floor)...
Magic vs. Kidd
I don't know who I would give that to. I can't just sweep Kidd under the rug. I've seen Magic get outplayed plenty of times. I've seen him helpless on the defensive end against smaller, quicker pg's. I've seen him abuse smaller pg's and I've seen Jason Kidd do the same thing.
Allan Houston would never sign with the Celtics.
He wouldn't sign with anybody in our division.
However, as much as it hurts me to say this...I can see him signing with Miami. I know they have Wade, but if Houston thinks he's going to be a starter he has another thought coming...
Who can forget that 50 point game he had in LA...man his stroke was so sweet (no homo)...
I could also see him signing with Phoenix or should I say signing with Steve Nash.
Whoever signs him is going to have a nice shooter. Hopefully he still has game.
Isiah is truly devoted to his own Knicks making noise and not having any remains from the Knicks of the 90's or early 2000's.
I'm with you Isiah....
Show em how it's done...
So the Celtics have an interest in Ruben Patterson huh?
I guess that would be a good signing for them. He would probably be the first player off the bench for them.
He brings good defense and he can score between 10-13 ppg.
Whatever the Celtics do...they need to do it. Training camp is not that far off. They are going to have to learn to gel before they can even be considered serious contenders. They truly have weaknesses at the pg with Rondo and at the 5 with Perkins.
Rivers is going to have a hard time with match ups.
We all know KG won't get injured because it seems like that guy is a machine.
I'm happy to say I can't say the same thing about Paul and Ray. Ray is coming off injuries (and I think surgery) on BOTH ankles.
The Celtics will be the most disappointing team this year.
The Knicks will be the most surprising.
Man I can't wait for the first show on TNT with Kenny, Charles and Ernie. Once you see that show you know it's about to get good. I hate the way Charles bashes the Knicks every chance he gets.
Then I remember he's part of the hate Isiah team.
He along with Jordan and Bird run that enterprise.
Maybe if Isiah was on that first dream team.......na !
Wow, I just thought about it...
J Williams
Wade
Artest
who's going to play the 4?
Shaq
There was a story today where Riley came out and downplayed everything.
Does anybody remember when Riley and Artest almost came to blows one game?
Now that was funny...
Riley Downplays Artest Possibility Despite Interest
August 24, 2007 - 11:43 am
Miami Herald -
Pat Riley is now downplaying the possibility of getting Ron Artest; at the same time the interest is obviously there. He has called Sacramento to inquire.
Just Thursday, Riley told Miami Herald radio partner 790 The Ticket when asked a hypothetical obviously about Artest: ``I leave things in the past. I've been able to manage players with tough backgrounds who might be thought of as disciplinary problems. I'll look at any situation.'' [READ]
Damn DJ, you're starting to write more than me. Provocative stuff though and I read every bit of it.
For now, I'll just let you know that you had me laughing from the very beginning because I knew that the first analysis to come off your keyboard would be between the quality of the competition each team faced.
I've been reading you so long, I pretty much know where you're going to go.
With that said, I can't argue about the quality of the opposition and the relative victory margins. I mean, I can argue but I can't pretend that would prove either of our points. You always have your mind made up when it comes to comparing younger guys against the legends. I'm not sure why, but I do know that anyone who has seen both groups play and have been watching basketball for a long time would never, ever, ever suggest that the current team would beat the Dream team. Perhaps (and I say perhaps) they could beat Dream Team II with Isiah, Shaq, Reggie Miller, Dominique, and Kemp or maybe Croatia circa 1992. But a team of Pippen, Drexler, David Robinson, Chris Mullin, John Stockton, and Karl Malone. I might have forgotten a few names, but please.
There are a couple of things you fail to consider in your passionate bias. First, there is no doubt that today's players are (as a group) physically more imposing than the old timers who were in pretty good shape back in the day. Conceded. But the beauty of basketball (as exhibited by US past failures in international competition) is that physicality and talent alone get you points not victories. In Champioship basketball physical goliaths are inevitably toppled by the savior, headier team with better chemistry.
Case in point. It is easy to imagine (as it was back in the day) Larry Bird getting whipped by bigger, faster, stronger players. You look at his body and what he could not do athletically and you think everybody should run this guy over. Ha!! I could not stand Bird (although I appreciate him now) but he knew how to play ball with what he had. He did not have to be stronger, faster, etc. because he was fundamentally sound and knew how to beat physically more impressive players.
The other thing you underestimate is the experience and fundamental soundness of the Dream Teamers who played a bit of college ball. Those extra years of learning fundamental skills and team play are invaluable. Yes, Kobe is fundamentally sound, but he is basketball's version of Ken Griffey and Barry Bonds. He was a prodigy as a youngster in part because he was always around the game at a higher level than kids who go through the system.
Finally, I would bet you that there is not two players on the current team that would pull a Sabatini and suggest that they could beat the Dream Team with any type of consistency. Maybe one, because there is always an odd one in a bunch. But two, no way. And wouldn't you take their word over your musings. Wouldn't you?
But we'll see how this shakes out. I think Kobe makes all the difference for a U.S. Team. He brings that Jordanesque passion and confidence that has been missing in USA basketball. When you have someone like him focused on the defensive end against the other team's best defender -- forget about it, lights out.
I want some Knick basketball.
DJ,
When you make your comparisons like Magic v. Kidd and Bird v. LeBron what are you seeing in your head, a one on one street ball matchup or a full court team game? Serious question, because I want to know how you are "feeling" your way through that analysis. And what information are you running through that mental computer of yours to play out those matchups.
For example, in your Bird v. LeBron matchup is LeBron overpowering Bird in the low block with a turnaround J and jumping over Bird for the rebounds from those missed jumpers? Is Bird just sitting there gazing at LeBron as he runs by Bird for a dunk? And is that big hunk of a player, just staying in front of Bird like a wall keeping him from getting his shot off? Is LeBron all of a sudden playing a type of defense he has never played in his life to stop Bird from releasing jumper after jumper after three pointer? If so, damn LeBron is too good and Bird shouldn't be on the same court as LeBron.
And Kidd v. Magic? Streetball or team ball? Kidd? Kidd? What do you see? Kidd beating Magic in a mid-range shoot out? Did you hear everybody laugh? Do you see Kidd stopping Magic from posting him up and backing him into the paint and shooting a hook over Kidd and Kidd jumping up to block the hook shot? Do you see Kidd just whizzing by Magic to take layup after layup because Magic is too slow? What do you see in your imaginings?
Hmmmm, in a team game do you see all of the other players doing so well that it doesn't matter that Howard would be the center against a team that includes Ewing, Malone, Bird and Jordan, all excellent rebounders? Would there be any reason to guard Howard other than to box him out? In a half court game is the ball going into Howard in the post so he can pass out like a Russell or a Chamberlain or a Shaq or a Bird? Since Howard is so proficient in the post, I guess someone would have to leave their man to collapse on Howard so he doesn't get the ball, huh? Leaves Redd wide open, huh?
I'm trying to see the game playing in your head, but I keep getting a black out or maybe I didn't pay the utility bill for that part in my brain.
Seriously, I want to see the game you got playing in your head.
(And leave the teams as they are. This USA Team v. the Dream Team. Shaq is not there for Team USA now. He already did his tour of duty.)
Davonn J
Stop. Read. Learn
A quote from Coach K, taken from ESPN : "That's in the past, and that was beautiful," Krzyzewski said Wednesday. "But like in music, there's one Woodstock. If you want another one, you have to go out and create something special of your own. We are the U.S. national team. What we want to be called is not a 'Dream Team.' We want to be called a 'championship team.' The other one will not happen again."
Enuff said.
Davonn
I respect you and the healthy agreement to disagree civil. My question to you is How old are you? I don't believe you were old enough to watch the Dream team or the players of tha Era! To me and others it seems like yesterday. But any true historian of the game will tell you that your lack of knowledge of past players leads you to make these laughable comparisons!
Our current cream of the crop would be out gunned, out rebounded, out-hounded, and would not win a single game against a Magic, Bird, Jordan led Dream team. Players like that come only once in a lifetime. The second star of each players team just mentioned would supplant any starter on this current roster that Coach K has! I'm serious, not trying to call you out, but just being dead serious!
Alan, good post about Nate.
You cannot teach the desire he has. Some may say yeah he was MVP but it was only summer league. I must say that summer league is more intense than a rookie/2nd year challenge. Guys are playing for their Basketball lifes. We all give props to Balkman about that "hard" foul during summer league, but wasn't the foul Collins comitted during the Denver game identical? Nate stuck up for his teammate and took a shot to his rep, lead by the NY media! Anyone remember that Thomas stated he might of taken Nate at #7 if he didn't work out a deal to get him shortly later? Nate is our future at PG. In fact he and Marty can co-exsist because Marty can hit the boards at 6'6 if Nate stays on the perimeter. Nichols has " Cazzie Russell" written all over him. We need Artest for Now, but the future of this team is very bright if Zeke stays the course and Trades Rose, Dan D, Jones, and even gets rid of James by any means necessary!
Lives, The Professor--The roles should be reversed. One of you gave a proper schooling to the revisionist DJ. And the other sealed the deal with that quote form that other coach. I give it to you though DaVonn, you have a come way from being covetous to loving the ones you're with (no homo :o). Your passion is contagious. We share that for this Black-Blue/Bad Boys II troop.
KFL
@ Lives
I figured you wouldn't let me put Shaq in the equation because it wouldn't be fair to your argument.
I also noticed how nobody said anything about KG.
He should be playing with us but he's not so I won't dwell on it.
As long as we all know what I said was 100 percent right...
A team of
Kidd
Kobe
Lebron
KG
Shaq
would without a doubt beat that original dream team.
OK..on to the next
@ Lives
You say:
"Is Bird just sitting there gazing at LeBron as he runs by Bird for a dunk?"
Yes he is
"And is that big hunk of a player, just staying in front of Bird like a wall keeping him from getting his shot off?"
Nobody could stop Bird from shooting.
"Is LeBron all of a sudden playing a type of defense he has never played in his life to stop Bird from releasing jumper after jumper after three pointer? If so, damn LeBron is too good and Bird shouldn't be on the same court as LeBron."
No he won't stop Birds shot but why don't you ask about Bird stopping Lebron?
Do you agree with me that Bird would probably foul out? You can sit here and say that Bird was smart and all...I agree he was. That doesn't negate the fact he would be literally outplayed by LBJ. First of all we all know that the game would be a up tempo game with plenty of fast breaks. LBJ would destroy Bird in this type of game. Why is it so hard for you to say Lebron would kill Bird?
Lebron, when it's all said and done is going to be top 5 players ever.
He is better than anybody you can think of in the history of the NBA at 18, 19, 20 and 21.
Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah and yes even the Black Mamba....anybody you can think of....when they was 18, 19, 20 and 21....they were no where near where Lebron is now. If you disagree with that I'm done....
Then you say:
"Kidd beating Magic in a mid-range shoot out?"
I never ever said Kidd could beat Magic in a mid range shoot out...I never said Kidd was better than Magic. Magic is the only player in the history of the league with over 100 triple doubles...Kidd will join him this year however.
All I said was people should not act like that match up heavily favors Magic. Magic would get the best of it probably but I don't sleep on Jason Kidd. The guy is like 29-0 in olympic play...I won't even talk about his record against the Knicks since the Net's got him.
"Do you see Kidd stopping Magic from posting him up and backing him into the paint and shooting a hook over Kidd and Kidd jumping up to block the hook shot? "
No, I don't see Kidd stopping him at all..whether it's a hook shot or just a regular jump shot....Magic will get his...
"Do you see Kidd just whizzing by Magic to take layup after layup because Magic is too slow?"
Yes I also see this as well....Magic was not a great defender on the ball.
"Hmmmm, in a team game do you see all of the other players doing so well that it doesn't matter that Howard would be the center against a team that includes Ewing, Malone, Bird and Jordan, all excellent rebounders?"
Jordan and Bird excellent rebounders?
Are you aware that LBJ, Kobe, Kidd and Wade are all better rebounders at the guard position than Mike and Bird?
Are you also aware that Howard would be the best rebounder on the floor if those 2 teams met?
Howard averages more rebounds than anybody on the first dream team....
Again, I don't want to argue, I'm just stating facts....
The game has evolved my friends....
"Would there be any reason to guard Howard other than to box him out?"
If you box Howard out..who's going to play help defense?
I know you don't think your players can stay in front of Kobe, Wade, LBJ and Mello....so go ahead and box Howard out all game...
When we want to score in the paint we'll just bring in Amare....you know the guy that averaged 38 ppg against Duncan. (who by the way is better than every center on your 1st dream team)...
Before I move on to my next post..please read that again and think about it...
Duncan is better than Pat, Robinson and the Dream.....
Moving on...
"Since Howard is so proficient in the post, I guess someone would have to leave their man to collapse on Howard so he doesn't get the ball, huh?"
It's cool to be sarcastic but I don't answer statements like that....it did make me giggle though so I'll give you that...
@ the Professor and Lives
Lives you say:
Finally, I would bet you that there is not two players on the current team that would pull a Sabatini and suggest that they could beat the Dream Team with any type of consistency."
If you find me 2 people on the original dream team that says they were better than the great players that came before them I would be shocked...
That's how it works Lives...Mike, Magic, Bird, Charles and whoever else on that team would never come out and say they were better than Wilt, Oscar, West and the greats before them....(even though we know who was better)...
Coach K could say whatever he wants...why would he say their better? That would be setting yourself up to fail.
@ Peaceman
"Our current cream of the crop would be out gunned, out rebounded, out-hounded, and would not win a single game against a Magic, Bird, Jordan led Dream team. Players like that come only once in a lifetime."
Who's lifetime are you talking about?
Besides Mike,
Kobe and Lebron are better than anybody on the 1st dream team...correct me if I'm wrong...
I know you don't think Magic or Bird were better than Kobe or Lebron do you?
Not when Lebron was putting up 26, 7 and 7 at 18 years old...(read that again please and tell me if you've ever seen that before)...
I ain't done yet chumps...I got to eat my bacon, egg and cheese before it gets cold...
Cold eggs gives you the bubble guts...
Alan
I disagree with your comments on Francis being a distraction for Nate. I may be alone but I hope Francis has a return to the Allstar form he was before leaving Houston. I believe he's still a major talent in this league, and I feel he was mistreated while on the Knicks. Not once did I see " the towel and Scowel" from Francis, as this 2004 almost MVP of the Allstar game, had to sit on the bench while lesser players played in front of him. Don't call me out until we play houston this year. I believe we'll see vintage Stevie Franchise. I have Major respect for Francis and his game. As Kevin Harewood stated on another blog," I don't want Francis to go to the Heat, I feel he would come back to Haunt us." My sediments exactly Kevin! In fact I wish all former Knicks who went through the Brown nightmare the best, including Frye!
Davonn
Kobe and Lebron would be the best players on the Dream team! Your Dream Team! Unfortunately you have to wake up from that dream! lol
BTW,
I think I know wherein lies the problem. DJ, you're punishing the Dream Team for not being around anymore. I inferred that from your critique of Shaq or KG. I'm not going there with you; we're just bloggin'.
I base this perspective on the fact that when Shaq did play against Ewing, there was no "killing" going on. It would be reported as "the torch being passed on". Both players held their own and stayed true to their stats (22s). So, clearly one player was getting older and fading while the other was an up-and-comer.
I liken that scenario to the Howard-Shaq debate today. Shaq endorsed Howard as his heir apparent. But remember how Barkley said that "all Shaq does is dunk". Funny how some folks say the same about Howard. I prefer EC's game (though I'm critical of his limited vision for help defense which The Professor calls "The Team Game"). Plus he's a NYK so he gets love on the loyal/Teammate tip. Would you gentlereaders agree that EC more represents a combo Shaq=power and Ewing/Hakeem=All-around game with crazy post moves? If he does develop that J as reported and learns to see the whole court and roll on defense whether at the post or from the perimeter, then we could be experiencing a re-revolutionizing of the Center. (I'm also witholding judgement on EC's lack of fire in the eye/belly, the champion spirit, the warrior attitude. That stuff comes from a combination of genes AND environment.)
Recall that Shaq revolutionized the Center as a powerful centrifugal force in the triangle offense. I for one did not consider Shaq a revolutionizing force because there was once a Chamberlain; there was once a Moses. Heck, there was once a Chocolate Thunder living in NY and loving PA/NJ.
I may be wrong on why DaVonn dismisses the old troop--The Dream Team. That's why I did not RSVP on his invitation to discuss who would D-up on Arenas or Wade. Heck, on a good night, I've seen Stephon and or Q shut down both guys. That's why I'm not coming to that party DaVonn fuhgedabout the bottle of Pinot Grigio I customarily bring to these types of invites (no homo). On the other stuff in this long entry, hey, it's Saturday and we're just bloggin'.
P.S.--I hope one of ya'll picked up the keys as I do not recall our host saying that they were tossed. Unless of course, he may be flossin'. (LOL)
KFL
Numbers Davonn?
Dallas had the best numbrs in the NBA last year! And.....
Peace,
ROFLMAO.
KFL
Let me also throw in my 2 cents about Magic...
Not to take anything away from him but let's take a look at a few things.
Oh by the way Peaceman, I'm old enough to remember the game where Magic played center in the NBA finals.
A lot of people give Magic a lot of credit for doing that. It was a remarkable accomplishment to pull off....however, I hope we are all aware that the reason why the Lakers were even in that position is because Kareem literally put that entire team on his back shortly after the new year and took them to that point. Then Kareem got hurt and Magic stepped up (for 1 game) and played center and led his team to victory.
Also...does anybody remember the team Magic had? He had a lot of help on his teams. I guess what I'm trying to say is if you have Scott and Worthy running the wings with you on the break, you should be good. Also if you have Kareem in the post when your running your half court sets....you should get a few assists.
Again..Magic is the best pg ever in my opinion but I don't think the level of play between Magic and Kidd is that overwhelming where I would just say Magic would kill Kidd.
It would be a great match up....
The NY Boys in Md,
Whats up? BTW, I waved to the state of MD yesterday as my flight out of Laguardia took me to ATL to visit my daughters for this short weekend! I know Bronxboy feels the same way about kobe as I do! What do you think about the Dream team vs todays players?
Davonn
I may be wrong because this is from pure memory, but I don't believe Worthy or Scott were on that team! I believe it was Norm Nixon and SILK!!!!
If you guys want to really see me get funky.....
Wait until tonight when we beat whoever we play by 70 points.
I'll be back on here full blast.
@ Peaceman
"Numbers Davonn?
Dallas had the best numbrs in the NBA last year! And....."
........and Dallas had the best record. If anything that just further proves my point about match ups.
This Team USA would pose a threat at more positions with match up problems.
@ Steady
"Heck, on a good night, I've seen Stephon and or Q shut down both guys."
You cannot be serious man. Ask yourself...did they shut them down or was it more due to the fact that Wade and Arenas were off?
Come on man....don't sit here and involve Steph and Q to a conversation involving legends of the game or in Wade's case...future legends.
Wade is as unstoppable as they come. Wade, Kobe and Lebron coming at you on a fast break is rediculous. Nobody in the world would be able to stop those 3.
Wow...close your eyes and try to visualize that..
Your at the free throw line and you see
Wade with the ball in the middle of the court
Lebron on the left looking at you (by the way does anybody realize that this 21 year old is 6'9 245 pounds...how big was Bird again?)...
And to put the icing on the cake...you see Kobe on the right side....
Like I've said before...
I'm not saying that this USA team would beat the Dream Team....it would be a great game and if it was a 7 game series it wouldn't be a sweep by any means.
Peaceman...I know who Magic had...
If you read my post..you'll see I was talking about 2 different teams.
That's the reason why I put them in 2 different paragaraphs.
It's cool bro...I just wanted to point that out...
Hope you enjoy your trip bro...
They are actually showing a repeat of the last game on ESPN classic right now...
Tune in if you haven't seen it....
Heck, DaVonn, you took those damn keys this AM. The NY Boys in MD must be on snooze mode but just you wait DJ. You'll have some more 'splaining to do.
KFL
Peaceman,
Not saying that you're a convert but I hope more people would adopt the notion--Steady as it goes. Stay the course. We're on to a beautiful ride in the history of NYK basketball. The Lil' General has given us three rebuilds from run and gun (guard-centric) to black and blue (big-centric). And have you guys noticed this reference to EC as a PF? WTF is that all about? Is JJ our C now or is it Zbo?
KFL
this is a joke. magic would eat kidd alive. howard would not hold a candle to malone in his prime. i have seen quentin richardson give Lebron a hard time, you dont think pippen would have given him even more trouble? Kobe isnt even in Jordan's stratosphere defensively, even though he may be of close to equal ability offensively.
by the way i dont even mention KG because he's great but isn't a winner. 3 straight years of being that great a player and not making the playoffs? please. robinson and ewing would've ran him.
Peaceman – I don’t remember the other guard, but you’re right that Jamaal Wilkes was most emphatically on the court the night Magic played center and the Lakers won the NBA Finals. In fact, he had a memorable performance that night. I’ve always thought he should win an award for the “quietest” 38 points in the NBA Finals. (I think 38 is right, could be off by a couple.) The point is, all anybody talks about is Magic that night. Jamaal was incredible.
Oh yeah not to mention that at least 5 guys on today's team wouldn't even make the original Dream Team if there was to be a tryout of all the players right now.
Good stuff Alan, Nate is my favorite player and i hope he never plays for another team. I agree with Davonn J and hope they wouldn't trade nate for artest, call me crazy but i think nate could be a star in this league once stef leaves. Can't wait to see the paper sunday.
Davonn
You made me do it! It's a fact that Worthy and Scott were not on that Laker championship team! It was Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, with Cooper, Spencer Haywood, and the Sweet long ball shooting seven foot Jim Chones! The only other standout name that didn't get too much Pt was Butch LEE!( No relation to Dave BTW ). So Magic doesn't get enough credit for takeing over that series when karrem got hurt!
@ Ronak
You say:
"by the way i dont even mention KG because he's great but isn't a winner. 3 straight years of being that great a player and not making the playoffs? please. robinson and ewing would've ran him."
I don't even know why I'm entertaining this statement but I will...
Garnett on the Timberwolves for the last 3 years is a lot different than if he had Kidd, Kobe, LBJ and Shaq around him.
Stockton, Ewing, Malone and Mullin were all losers if you look at it like that. They didn't win anything at all...
Robinson and Ewing would run KG?
I wonder how many people agree with that...
There are some nights where I'm watching him and he finishes the game with a stat line similar to the following:
29 points, 25 rebounds, 8 assists and 6 blocks.
KG has these type of games anywhere between 10-15 times a season. I know this because I'm in a fantasy basketball league.
If Ewing or Robinson would put up a stat line like that...people would talk about it for days.
I don't think they would own KG at all...
I'm not saying KG would own them but KG would be our PF not C. What do you think Charles would do with KG?
That's more like it....
Peaceman once again,
If you read my post again..
You will see I never said Scott and Worthy were on that team.
I created a new paragraph and started talking about that team.
I said Magic had a lot of good teams. He had the all time leading scorer in the middle and great wing players.
I said when Magic played center in the finals...Kareem got them to that point (literally the game before) then Magic played center for one game.
READ THE POSTS PEOPLE...
If you have a hard time understanding it....READ IT AGAIN BEFORE YOU COMMENT ON IT.
Ronak,
True dat. If you're gonna put the whole bunch in da mix, you gotta let it all shake out. And remember how hard it is to get guys to give up their vacations and healing bodies for the national shiny stuff.
Folks, so far Kobe has had my head spinning. I just read the link in that 24-hr all bull channel where that UMD point guard was talking about the impact of playing against Kobe. It was like Varisty vs. freshmen (not even JVs). He was saying how devastating it was to see Kobe pressing him on the inbounds. Kobe was relentless. We don't see that type of drive regular because of the lasting physical implications. But my fellow bloggers, we're seeing a performance the likes of no other (almost Woods-esque or BARFesque) when it comes to playing the team game. And all the players are saying that Kobe is on a whole nother level. If he moves this or next summer, any team will give a blank counter offer sheet for him.
KFL
We actually play Canada today at 3PM on ESPN 2
Stockton, Malone, and Ewing have been in the conference finals and NBA finals multiple times... KG cant even get out of the 1st round for 7 years, gets to the conf finals one year, then doesnt make the playoffs for 3 years. Stat lines are nice but it doesnt always win you games. KG is a perfect example. There are certain guys that just make their teams many times better. KG is a great individual player, but team success is not what he is known for. And by team success i dont mean winning an NBA title, i mean taking your team into the playoffs year after year, and getting out of round 1 most of the time, which KG repeatedly fails to do (and Lebron and Kobe and Wade and other modern "superstars" dont).
OOps typo--Varsity vs. Freshmen. Ya'll know what's good.
KFL
You got that right Steady...
The man is on a whole different level...
To the person that said Kobe is nowhere near as defensive as Mike was...
Should I mention that Mike has 9 defensive first team awards and Kobe has 7.
Is it safe to say that Kobe will end up with more than Mike?
That's why we should hold onto Lee and all our chips and wait to see what happens to Kobe.
If we can get him...we have to do it.
DJ, I can't hang with you on this Dream Team v. Now Team discussion. This stuff is too "fantasy league" for me. I really just wanted to know how you were seeing these games. And based on what you're telling me you're not seeing the games, you're moving the players with a remote control.
We all love your passion and have no desire to do without it -- especially with what we expect to be a fun season -- but you keep stepping on your credibility when you reach back into the time machine.
You've got me crackin' up six ways to Sunday. I gotta go, but I wouldn't mind if you ran down how you see that half-court game with LeBron and Bird on the floor. By the way, if it were one on one, LeBron would have to get the ball back after his first miss. LOL.
(Yes, I too expect LeBron to be one of the greatest ever. . .but better than Dream Team Bird today? O'k.)
I'm sorry Ronak...
Did Karl Malone and Ewing make their teams better?
Stockton did but Malone and Ewing didn't.
How many times did Ewing not make the playoffs?
@Lives
I appreciate your honesty and I will have to disagree with you.
Athleticism always wins.
You can be the smartest player in the world.
Your not going to beat a team that is more athletic and quicker than you.
It's just not going to happen....
DaVonn,
You're an easy and pleasant read. You grabbed the keys this AM and ran with them. But it looks like your senior peers on this blog have reeled you in, young hopper.
You said...
You cannot be serious man. Ask yourself...did they shut them down or was it more due to the fact that Wade and Arenas were off?
That's the whole idea of shutting someone down. You shut them down to the point where they go off. Silly rabbit--you can't have your players, to support your point, run roughshod while the players you're comparing against act like some NBALive characters while a non-player holds the controls. Maybe that's it. Maybe you already played out this scenario on your EASports or NBALive (dating myself here as I'm not in that game and don't want to hate on it). Did you DJ? Did you, Did-ya?
KFL
Steady, Professo, African, Ronak,
will somebody here help our boy DJ. We need to make sure he is mentally prepared for the regular season. I was on my way out but I couldn't help but peak and choke on your Goliath v. David comment. DaVonn, quit it. You're ignoring far too much history with a comment like that.
Hey guys, for one do You remember that UNLV loss. Or Princeton beating UCLA or handling Georgetown. I could go on for years, but I really gotta go.
Guys, get DJ in shape we got some real stuff coming up soon. Peace. Later. Today perhaps.
Ewing didnt make those Knicks team better? What was their record the year before he got drafted? How about the year after? 2 years after??
I guess Robinson and Duncan didn't make their teams better either, right?
Malone just as recently as 5 years ago was schooling KG in the playoffs. KG isn't much better today then he was at ager 25. However Malone wasn't even in his prime. That's why the KG-Malone conversation is a joke. Look at Utah's record before they drafted Malone and after. How can you not claim that any of these guys made their teams better?
By the way, Ewing made the playoffs every year of his career after 1988 until he was traded from the Knicks. Feel real smart now Davonn, dont you?
This guy Davonn claims that Bird never rebounded, yet Bird averaged more than 10 rebs a game for his entire career.
Lives,
You may be gone but I think we were writing and thinking the same thought about DaVonn playing this scenario with remote controls. If I had more time, I'd like to get into that generational thing. But I hear that it is addictive--like a blood sport. And no fols, this is not an invitation to go there. I ain't startin' none, I'm just sayin'. Nah, we're just bloggin'.
KFL
DaVonn also doesn't even mention the fact that the Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo team more than once lost to the squad of younger US stars brought to play against them in scrimmage, comprised of David Lee, Andre Iguodala and other young NBA players.
Hey Ronak,
This guy DaVonn is one of our own. He's got passion that is unmatched here. Well then there's BARF. If you've been around you would have seen the flow. DaVonn will be DaVonn and you can't shut him down, you could only hope to contain him (a la Dan Patrick).
By the way, if you're posting from leprachaun land or have some penchant for the Cs, we'll know in three posts. The whole of NY knows that Bird got all the calls in NY and every game he played. But when you're good, it often seems that way.
KFL
I am a Knick fan til i die. My favorite Knick ever is John Starks.
DaVonn needs to get a clue though.
I hear ya Ronak. DaVonn is an up-and-comer. He's ours. Consider your treatment to the up-and-comers as leadership succession. As a KFLer and proable NYer you're on top of the F'n hill now, but you won't stay there forever. The great equalizer won't allow that. You're reeling him in with the great stats about Ewing making the NYK better and the undeniable Bird facts--hey, he had our number.
Thanks for sharing. And we're only bloggin'. Hen DaVonn, wait 'til Starburyfan get a load of what you're saying about his Black Mamba.
KFL
Ronak,
I liked Starks' story (NYesque if you ask me). I enjoyed Sly and BK (no homo--first coined by DaVonn here). In terms of approach to the game and TEAM play, noone compares to the Big Fella. And I mean that looking at the Willis Reed era and the young hoppers.
KFL
Hey Davonn,
Beside the fact that you're on crack, you reminded me of something.
I was thinking we could all get down with a fantasy basketball league. Make the season even more interesting. Add another layer to our competition and trash talking...
I have never done one but I'd be down to try if you guys would get down with me. I'm not sure how it works though, so maybe you could 'splain? suggest? whatever.
Steady as we go. KFL
Charles Oakley Anthony Mason Xavier McDaniel Larry Johnson were the dogs from my era... none of this no handchecking no touching no backing down for 5 seconds game that they play today... thats why today's scorers have it easier
Ronak relax...he averaged 26, 10 and 6 for his looooooong 12 year career.
Let it be known in his last 2 years he only played 60 and 45 games respectively.
In 88 he only played 6 games...
He was 6'9 215 pounds...
Bird was a great player but he wouldn't be able to keep up with this team...especially his match up with Lebron....
Then you say
"Ewing didnt make those Knicks team better"
Pat's first year the Knicks went 23-59.
"What was their record the year before he got drafted?"
The answer to that question is 24-58
"How about the year after?"
I already answered it but I'll do it again...23-59.
"2 years after?? "
The answer to that question is 24-58.
Once Rick Pitino got there in 88...they went 52-30 and finally ended their post season drought.
So to answer your question...
"Ewing didnt make those Knicks team better?"
Yes he did but he didn't make the players around him better.
The year before Garnett was drafted..the Wolves were 21-61.
The year he got drafted they were 26-56.
The year after he got drafted they were 40-42...
Patrick made it to the playoffs 12 straight years...
KG made it 8 striaght years by himself.
He carried those teams to the playoffs.
Not to say that Ewing didn't...but when you have Oakley, Starks, Harper, Houston, Sprewell, Camby, LJ, Mason and all the rest of the former great Knicks...compare that to who KG had.
@ Lives
"Hey guys, for one do You remember that UNLV loss. Or Princeton beating UCLA or handling Georgetown. I could go on for years, but I really gotta go."
Yes we remember those games because they weren't supposed to happen.
Do you really have to go or is it you just can't remember any other ones.
You gave us 2...that's a very little bit when you consider how long basketball has been played....
@Steady
"That's the whole idea of shutting someone down. You shut them down to the point where they go off. "
Wow...so I guess if Marbury is sticking Kobe and Kobe goes say 5 for 21....but you can clearly see Marbury had no effect on the shots. You would still think he shut him down?
I use to play ball through high school and college...that doesn't make me better than anybody...it just means that I know (and a few of you may know also)....it doesn't matter who sticks some players....if your off your off...
How many times have we seen great scorers just have bad games? Sometimes it's not your not...it happens to everybody...
Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Wade, Lebron
@Ronak..
Why does it matter they lost in a scrimmage?
Sounds to me like your reaching now...it's ok my friend.
@Barf...
I would love to do a fantasy league..
People kill me when they act like a person can't come along and be better than previous greats.
Everything evolves...
Look at baseball...
A-Rod is going to be the best player ever....anybody that watches the game can see that.
If somebody would've told you when Babe Ruth was playing we would be seeing a player like A-Rod...they would've been smacked.
Look at football...
The evolution of the game is so crazy..
LDT on the Chargers not only can run for touchdowns but he can catch and even pass for touchdowns nowadays.
I will never say a RB is better than Barry Sanders though.
That guy would literally have me with my jaw dropped (no homo)....
You know why you don't see players like Bird anymore