E-Boland and the Bombers

As the very site that you linked to mentions, WPA has not proven to be a good predictor of future performance, so I'm not sure how it got into a discussion of which player would be better for NYY going forward.

I just used it to give people an idea of how well each player has done in big spots. Even discounting that stat entirely, there's still enough evidence that Swisher should be one to stay, if they do in fact decide to move one of the two players.

I agree that neither should go. It would be stupid to simply dump either one of them.

We'd all like to think Matsui's knees will hold up one more season but there's a real chance that he misses time again.

Too much depth never hurt anyone.

Mike,
I agree, they should keep both, Swisher will find a spot because he is versatile.
Prediction: One of them gets traded and then an OF comes up with a strained hammy in spring training and we immediately
regret the trade.

The only downside to holding on to both Nady and Swisher is the lack of playing time.Swisher a career .244 hitter as a regular will not flourish as a role player ,his only chance to polish his game is to be out on the field on an everyday basis.
Swisher cannot contrary to Axisa appraisal be counted on in the clutch.A career .221 RISP. Nady a bit better at .265 RISP.

It wouldn't kill NY to carry someone like Miranda as a sub,he's an above average fielding 1B w/ some pop.

Gardner and Melky can provide good D as late inning replacements for Nady who may not have Swisher's range but is a decent OF.

Swisher may take a lot of pitches but unlike Abreu he doesn't do well enough with pitches in the strike zone ,his high strikeout totals and low career ave. attest to this ,let alone hitting w/ RISP.

First of all I want to warn everyone - Nudge is probably going to be in rare form next week after the way the Giants played today - ugh.

Onto the question at hand:

The Yankees should keep both. But they probably won't and Nady would be the one who goes.

Nady had an outstanding season last year and Swisher had an awful one but over the courses of their careers they are pretty similar (with Nady having the better BA and Swisher having the better OBP and Slugging)

Nady's a FA at the end of this year and not likely coming back whereas Swisher is under contract and Swisher is more versitile than Xavier.

The stories now are about the Yankees and Nationals talking - a deal of Nady for Scott Olsen and Wily Mo Pena wouldn't be the worst thing the Yankees ever did.

If Swisher could net NY a good reliever or help plug a hole?? I'd say trade him.

It's funny if NY had signed Tex right from the get go this wouldn't even be part of the discussion.

paying him 7 million to ride the bench as insurance seems like such a waste .
I don't by into the argument that it's better to trade Nady and keep Swisher because he's locked up for 3 yrs @ 21 mil.
NY will probably lose 27 mil next yr when Damon and Matsui hit the streets.Although if either of them have outstanding yrs in 09 NY will have to consider retaining at least 1 of them.

CHIP

FYI

Nady has the better slugging @ .458 to Swisher's .451

Who saw a post like this with all these acronyms and stats coming from Mike a year ago? I'm so proud of you, Mike, I'm almost in tears.

Ruse -

There's almost no chance that the Yankees would consider bringing Nady back (or Damon or Matsui for that matter)

Here's why:

Matsui - the Yankees after this year are likely to make Posada the full time DH to protect his arm. As it is, they're not all that comfortable that he's going to be ready this season.

Damon - I think the Yankees view him as aging quickly. Odds are you're looking at Brett Gardner as his in house replacement for the leadoff spot

Nady - He's represented by Boras and as such is going to want an insane deal. If the Yankees are going to pay a ton of money to an outfielder, logic dictates that they give it to either Jason Bay or Matt Holliday instead of Nady.

In the end, I think the 2010 OF will be Gardner (LF) Jax (CF) Swisher (RF)

Ruse: Miranda is an awful awful fielder, worst hands and less range than Giambi.

CHIP

I forgot you carry a crystal ball in your backpocket

If Posada is the everyday DH who is the everyday catcher??

Nobody is going to give Nady an insane deal ????

NY would never go into the 2010 season with the OF you tout.

If Washington is fool enough to trade Olson I would be amenable to a Kearns/Olson for Nady trade

GREG

Are you sure about Miranda's defense ? I've heard otherwise.Who is your source?

To all my fellow bloggers who are Giants fans: Sorry about today- as a Redskins fan, I can empathize.

Someone yesterday said Nady is versatile and has played first and third....anyone know if that's true? I've never seen him play anything but OF.

After the Teixeira signing, Miranda is nothing more than a trade chip to the Yanks now.

Teixeira is a horse that plays everyday and their backup first baseman is Swisher.

They don't need another first baseman on the roster.

Nady has played about 80 games at 1B during his career and filled in a few times for the Yanks last season.

He's played a grand total of three games at 3B throughout his career, so he's not a viable option there.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=4564&context=fielding

Wow, before reading this, i had swisher all wrong and think i perhaps overrated my boy Nady. Although i think i'd still love to keep nady, i would really like to see both kept, but if Nady has to go, I hope the Yankees would only let him go for a very high price, such as a MLB ready young pitcher or outfielder, such as Lastings Milledge, but actually good. (LOL Mets fans).

I can't believe the Nats are interested in Nady and Swish...well actually I should believe it as inept as their management seems to be because they seem to want every OF in MLB on their teams yet they never seem interested in acquiring pitchers.

ruse -

It could very well be Cervelli as the everyday catcher - or someone from another organization via trade - the bottom line is that I don't think the starting catcher for the New York Yankees is going to be a 38-year old with a bum shoulder.

As for the outfield - you may be right. The Yankees might not go into next season with Jackson, Swisher and Gardner in the outfield - though I don't see why not. They were prepared to go into this season with Gardner in CF and Swisher at first base until they got Tex.

In any case, my point on Nady is this: If you're going to pay Boras prices then you might as well sign a better all around player than Nady like Bay or Holliday. And if you think that Nady is going to end up taking some below market deal, forget that. Boras represents Nady, Holliday, Bay, Damon and Ankiel - all free agents at the end of this season. Boras is going to set the market and if you don't like his price...tough because he's the only shop in town.

Jim A,

Nothing worse than waking up on a beautiful Waikiki morning, grabbing some freshly brewed kona coffee, and watching your team's offens look like a bad high school team. While still waiting for your luggage to arrive.

Jim,

I'm with you - I don't get it either.

I know they don't think that Nick Johnson is the answer for them at first, but given their current roster they could just as easily play Josh Willingham over there as deal for Swisher or Nady. Go with Dukes, Milledge and Pena/Kearns in the OF with Willingham over at first. I can't imagine that Nady or Swisher are that much better at first than Willingham is.

Of the two, at least Swisher would give them a LH bat to stick with all the right handers (Zimmerman, Dukes, Milledge, Willingham).

Unlike some baseball writers - I don't mind them dumping Tim Redding rather than paying him $3 mil next season. I think Redding is a disaster waiting to happen for the Mets. Olsen and Lannan give them two young (24) left handed starters who have oodles of potential to build with.

Boss,
You had me at "waking up on a beautiful Waikiki morning"!

I know the Giants spoiled a little part of your vacation but try to enjoy the rest of it.....l guess if I was going to have to lick wounds inflicted by my team, I guess I'd like to do it in Hawaii.

Too bad I'm here for business, jimmy. That said, I may have to sneak out of the conference either Thursday or Friday and go watch the Sony Open.

Anyone read the Newsday article on those two Cuban "kids" that Chip or Viper or someone brought up a few weeks back?

Bosstrots

It seems the 29 yr old Cuban Yadel Marti has expressed interest in pitching for the Yanks.According to scouts he's major league ready.

RUSE:
I live in NY Long Island, and according to MLBRUMORS.com, Yadel Marti works out in Melville, NY. Very close to me! I will try and stop by guys, and give him the sales pitch, then give cash the go ahead call to fly to melville to meet both me and Marti. Ill tell you how it is!! But seriously, i really do live about 10 minutes from where he works out!! The rest, is a joke for all you naysayers.

**SOURCE**: MLB RUMORS.com

A couple weeks ago, we covered Cuban stars Yadel Marti and Yasser Gomez defecting to the United States (by way of the Dominican Republic). Laura Albanese at Newsday has an update on the pair, and their hopes to make it to the big leagues.

The two hope to be represented by Jaime Torres, agent of Yuniesky Betancourt and Jose Contreras. Torres says they're both Major League caliber and are capable of playing in the big leagues immediately. They're currently working out in Melville, NY.

Marti, 29, is hailed as one of Cuba's best pitchers. The righty was their ace in the 2006 World Baseball Classic, throwing 12.2 scoreless innings. Gomez, 28, is a speedy outfielder and career .331 hitter in Cuba. He hit .397 over a 66-game span in Cuba's 2008 national series tournament.

In the video on the right side of the Newsday article, the two say they're thankful to have a chance to play in the Majors, and are open to any teams because they're playing to support their families. They do, however, specifically mention the Yankees, White Sox, and Red Sox by name.

Boss,
I know all about those "business" conferences....lots of work gets done there huh?

I'm headed for Geneva at the end of the month myself.

Chip,
Living in the DC area, I can tell you I don't think the Nats will be here for much more than 10 years. It's not that people don't care about them because they aren't good, it's just that people just don't seem to care at all.

Seth,
I grew up in Holbrook, you live anywhere near there?

Hey, interesting post, i personally agree with you that the Yanks should keep both.
They haven't had this much depth in a while and its beneficial, guys always get hurt.
On a side note how did you get this gig? It is cool that they let you do this, im assuming Newsday
I am guessing they hire you pt or do they just let you volunteer to keep it up? Keep up the good work

Jim, I probably live about 40 minutes from Holbrook. Im in Westbury, Nassau County.

I dont know if anyone knows MLB 2K8 the video game. But anyway, i reconstructed all of the rosters to make them the standard MLB rosters now (the roster updates dont last after the season is done, to make you buy the next game LOL) and i played with the Yankees. It was really fun. I actually demoted Melky and played with Gardener in Center, and a combination of Damon, Swisher and Nady manning the corners, with Matsui at DH. It was great. And i found myself playing with Swisher just alittle bit more. Also, pitching was great, and Hughes was excellent against the Twins. Everyone else played as expected, but Joba stood out getting 10 K's against i forgot. The only thing i really do not like about starting Swisher (BACK TO REAL LIFE) is that he strikes out alot more than Nady and the bottom of our order is questionable with Cano, Posoda, Melky/Gardener and Matsui. I say keep both and have an essential tryout, keep Nady and see if he can produce in his 1 year left, and we wont be able to sign him for Boras dollars if he has a good year. If not, then hopefully Swish will produce and we wont worry. End of story.

Wow ... a new thread!

I say keep Swisher because he can play LF, CF, RF and 1B and is a switch hitter.

On the other hand, Diane thinks Nady is nice looking so ...

Take your pick.

The team needs spare parts and even a backup for Jeter and Posada, perhaps another left-handed pitcher.

We also need to be much better at small ball, which did not improve under Girardi ...

RISP
Hit behind the runner
Swing and miss to protect the runner stealing
Foul off tough pitches like Wade Boggs used to do
Work the count like Knoblauch used to go
Run from first to third and take the extra base
Better third base coach
Hit the cut off man
Get the runner in from 3B with less than two outs

Again, as we all know, we were so spoiled with the 95 - 01 - 03 teams ...

so as if the Giants weren't enough to keep me awake tonight - I get this little tidbit from The Boston Globe:

The Brewers will say Prince Fielder is not available, but could they be overwhelmed with a package of young players? One AL talent evaluator said, "He makes a lot of sense for Boston. They need a big bat in the lineup, it would combat what the Yankees have done with Mark Teixeira. They could go to their Teixeira plan of moving [Kevin] Youkilis to third and trading Mike Lowell. In this type of package, you can start with Clay Buchholz and go from there."

Clay Bucholtz and Lars Anderson for Prince Fielder makes a great deal of sense for both teams. The Brewers know they aren't keeping Prince long term and Anderson would be ready in a couple of years.

Ant colony,
IF you remember, in '02, we didnt even reach 2nd round in playoffs and lost to the team who gave us our first basemen.

I have been in favor of keeping Nady. The guy was hitting over
.330 last year. Yeah his average did drop after joining the Yanks
but that's to be expected when switching leagues. I forgot that
Swisher is a switch hitter which is certainly a point in his favor. I'm
hoping his numbers last year were due to not having a regular
position. I definately believe that one should be traded though.
I don't see either being great off the bench. Man I wish we'd gone
after Torri Hunter when we had the chance.

Rob, if Nady was kept, he would not be on the bench, and Swisher wouldnt be a regular bench player. Torri Hunter and getting paid way too much money and is in decline. Glad we didnt get him especially wit AJax coming up

I have been giving lot of thought lately to the possibility of trading both and consolidation the two corners into one superior player. That player - Adam Dunn.
If he could be signed for dollars in the park of what Milton Bradley took we'd come out having a guy that averages 40HRs a year with career .247 /.381 /.518. You think you would want to make that move if the price was pretty near what would come off the books by shedding Swisher and Nady.
Also, this would help retool the farm that will be a little shallow considering the draft picks we will be forced to give up from our big FA signings.
The big drawback to this kind of move would be defense and Dunn's high strikeout rate. But considering his OBP and slugging I can deal with the strikeouts. Bat him 5th behind A-Rod and Tex and you'd see him post a lot of runs.
As for the defense, our rotation more than in recent years will have guys that can miss bats. Wang still keeps the balls on the ground.
All and all I just think it would be a surer bet than hoping that Swisher rebounds or that Nady doesn't return to league average.

Jeff G, that has to be the most stupid thing ive ever heard. First, we are never going to trade both Swisher and Nady. Second, why would you want to lock up a fifth spot with someone who has a declining .BA and an increasing K rate? And all we need in RF is bad defense. Right. To top it all off, hes miserably slow. Also, hes never seen a big game in his life. We would be spending the worst $ possible.

Seth, most stupid or stupidest, there have been numerous references to Cashman taking offers for both. Even this post makes reference to moving "and/or." Both payers are desirable so moving the two of them is not out of the realm of possibility.
The claim that his numbers are declining is just plain false. Please take the time to read a stat sheet.
Also, how many big games have Swisher and Nady known?
I do understand he is a slugger type, and strikes out ,but his OBP means he is still patient enough to make up for it. We scored far fewer runs last year than just Teixeira alone can replace.
It just seems to me that we are relying heavily on a lot of players bouncing back.
Plus, although I'm not counting on it there is always the chance that after this year we allow him to DH. That said his bat (SLG .518) makes me still comfortable with him in the field. His value rating with defense included still paces him above Swisher.

yea ur point exactly. We allow him to DH, and Matsui damon are gone. Now what? Who plays left and right field? My point, retarded. we cant bank on having prospects MLB ready in 2010 and buying matt holliday and ankiel. Not happening.

Nady.

Swisher is a grinder, Nady isn't. The Yankees want to go back to the formula that was successful in the '90s, which relied on players with high OBPs. Nady doesn't fit that mold, and Swisher is better defensively as well.

It's a no brainer.

I'm sure it would not be an impossible task to find a replacement for right field. I'm hoping Damon holds up and gets re-signed for left.
Again, although it would be nice to use him as a DH, I'd still say he makes up for his fielding by a good margin if we signed him to play right.
"My point, retarded. " - arguing ideas does not require the other person to be stupid or retarded. I won't be calling you names anytime soon as I do understand the concern for defense.
I won't cry if we don't sign Dunn, but I don't think the team would be as good as if we had.
Here is a link to another post at the home site of the guy that penned the above post:
http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/get-it-dunn-6114/
...makes an argument better than I have. Not to say that they are implying move Nady or Swisher for him. Mike has not made that claim to my knowledge. Give it a read and see if you still think Dunn is such a slouch.

They'll always be able to move one of these guys midseason if they have too.

And possibly for a better return, if the trade partner really needs them.

If both Nady and Swisher both remain on the team, one of them could receive significantly reduced PT if they struggle.

Consequently, there is no reason to wait to make a move in season if a good deal is offered right now.

Get the best position prospect you can and move on.

Clay Bucholtz and Lars Anderson for Prince Fielder makes a great deal of sense for both teams. The Brewers know they aren't keeping Prince long term and Anderson would be ready in a couple of years.

---------------

I don't know, Fielder on the Red Sox may make sense for some AL talent evaluator - but he's not really the kind of player Theo covets.

They like defense over there and the primary reason Ortiz has been a DH over the years is because his defense is horrible.

Before Youkilis took over as the first baseman - they had acquired guys like Doug Mientkiewicz, Sean Casey, and others to avoid using Ortiz over there.

Fielder is not a good defender. I don't think Theo would be willing to add someone who would be a huge downgrade defensively than Youkilis.

He's also been very resistant in trading Buchholz - just as resistant as Cashman has been to trading Hughes.

I don't think trading for Fielder makes all that much sense to the Red Sox.

My contention is keep them both. I have serious reservations about our senior players such as Damon and Matsui going without injury throughtout the year. How about Posada behind the plate. We need depth and strong RH hitting against lefties in every series. But if you are going to push me Swisher has the overall talent to assist at an everyday level of play at the OF and 1st base positions. Nady on the other hand is a below par OF but a very strong RH bat. So I trade Nady If money was a consideration than Swisher should be down the road slightly cheaper . Also if we kept both the AB's are there for everyone with resting Matsui against tough lefties. I know that he hangs in there but lets go with the %.

Viper -

Actually they brought in Casey this year after Youk had already been moved to first, but your point about them wanting defense over there isn't entirely wrong. The thing is, Prince isn't exactly a bad fielder. Is he Tino? No, but he's also not Giambi.

I think what it boils down to is that Boston is in much the same boat with Lowell that the Yankees are with Jorge. They're locked into him, and hope that he'll be healthy enough to play his position next year but honestly just aren't sure what to expect.

Larry -

I agree that Posada, Matsui, and Damon will likely all miss time this season. And I don't advocate trading away Nady (the more likely of the two) for nothing. However, if a trade of Xavier Nady can bring in a legitimate starting CF or a solid back of the rotation pitcher to buy Hughes some more development time, then I would have to seriously consider the move.

I don't think Cashman is going to trade either player simply for a bench player and minor leaguers, but if he can fill one of the two glaring holes left (the fifth starter spot that had been left open for Andy or CF) then I think he'll do it.

Realistically the Yankees can probably address any lack of depth that a trade of Swisher or Nady would result in by signing solid bench contributors (Eric Hinske) for less money.

I would root hard for Detroit to have a lousy Season and go HARD after on player on that team who would be an excellent fit on this Yankee team.

Magglio?

I bet he means Granderson.

It's too bad the Yanks couldn't swing a deal for Cameron Maybin because I think he may be on the verge of superstardom.

It would have cost them a lot for sure, but he's going to be a good one for a long time.

And before anyone says anything, yes, I know Maybin is now in Florida (acquired in the Cabrera deal) - but Bomber brought up the Tigers and reminded me of Maybin arriving in the bigs as a 20 year old a couple of years ago.

That kid has unbelievable talent and he's a really good kid too - not a thug like some of the other really talented youngsters that have emerged with a lot of hype in recent years.

The only thing I ever saw Swisher grind thru when he was with Oakland were protracted batting slumps and they are not things of beauty...I can just imagine NY fans giving him the Bronx cheer when he strikes out for umpteenth time,remember how surly we all got when Abreu went into minny slumps?

other teams are no more interested in a 1 yr deal for Nady then perhaps NY is.Other teams have even less of a possibility of signing Nady when he becomes a FA ,what makes you think if he played for the Giants or Nationals he'd be amenable to a long term Boras type deal with them?

NY seems to be looking around for a veteran SP.Olsen,Sanchez or Marti all are intriguing possibilities.

Is that Jonathon Sanchez of the Giants?

He's not really an intriguing option. He's an Oliver Perez clone - nasty stuff but can't find the strike zone to save his life.

Very very high walk ratio (about 4.3 BB per 9 IP) and I wouldn't trust him in the rotation against much tougher competition.

Yes that Sanchez .He's 25-26 with a good upside.

I heard on Mike & Mike today that the Yanks were exploring a Swisher for Cameron trade. I hope that it's just another BS rumor.

Dru

It probably is BS but Cameron for 1 yr or Swisher for 3, I'd take Cameron for 1 yr.
Swisher would be another salary dump ,rather than watch him butcher ABs for 3 yrs better let another team enjoy.

No way I would take Cameron for 1 year at 10M over Swisher at =

$5.3 million in 2009
$6.75 million in 2010
$9 million in 2011
Option of $10.25 million for 2012, with a $1 million buyout.

Thats a pretty reasonable contract for a 28 year old switch hitter like Swisher. As far as butchering AB's, lets compare the two players over the past 2 years

Cameron
1015 AB's
246 Hits
46 HR
121 BB
302 K

Swisher
1036 AB's
250 Hits
46 HR
182 BB
266 K

So both guys had the same amount of AB's, Hits and HR's, but Nick walked 60 more times and Ked 36 fewer times. Both guys K too much, but Mike is more of a butcher. Nick, at just 28 years old, has a solid chance of improving those numbers. Cameron, at age 36, may get worse.

I would not do this deal.

trade both, and then sign MANNY !! lineup: Damon, Jeter, Tex, ARod, Manny, Matsui, Posada, Cano, Gardner

DRU

I never said Cameron didn't butcher ABs but for 1 season I'd take it,banking on Swisher becoming a more complete player is asking a lot ,can you live with Swisher for 3 yrs if he's a bust?? No other team will take him at his current salary in let's say 2010.

MANNY MANNY MANNY MANNY MANIA ! the Yanks can STILL do it if and when they trade both swisher and nady !!

I would deal Swisher for Randy Winn in a heartbeat

Ruse,

There are a lot of players out there with upside - but that doesn't mean they are all good fits for this ball club.

I've read a lot of clamoring for guys like Sanchez and Sheets but they are both big gambles for different reasons.

Oftentimes it's wiser to acquire the much safer option and the guy who has a better track record of durability, reliability, or whatever - especially when their primary focus should be on a guy who will give them 200 IP.

You mean soon to be 37 yr old lefties with cranky shoulder/Elbow with over 1.42 whip the last 3 yrs?

The $$$ guaranteed Swisher for the next 3 seasons, based on his
declining numbers the last 2 seasons, is NOT A BARGAIN. The
money guaranteed NADY for 1 season based on his performance
the last 2 seasons, IS A BARGAIN. The original reason sighted
for trading either Swisher or Nady, was to save some $$$ to put
toward signing Pettitte or another SP for 09. The trading of either
Swisher or Nady for Cameron, would increase the Yankee team
payroll in 09, obviously not saving $$$ for Pettitte\ SP in 09. The
reason the Cameron trade talks stalled a few weeks ago, was
purported to be the Yankees request that Milwaukee eat some
of the Cameron contract. Based on that, I don't see them eating
any of his $10 MM contract now. The Cameron rumors appear
to be bogus.
The R\Sox can have Fielder. Defensively, if the ball isn't hit right
at him, it's by him into RF. They already have team speed woes
when Lowell and Ortiz are on base. Add Fielder to that mix, and
you' ve got rally killers up and down the lineup. I also believe the
R\Sox have problems with Lowell, as he knows they were gonna
dump him had they been able to close the deal on TEX. Throw
in the walking wounded SP's they just signed, and you have a
team that Rod Serling should be sign posting.

LOL, ST

You mean soon to be 37 yr old lefties with cranky shoulder/Elbow with over 1.42 whip the last 3 yrs?

-------------------

That "cranky lefty" has thrown 856 IP over the last four seasons - an average of 214 IP per season.

How many other pitchers in the majors not named Halladay, Sabathia, or Santana have that kind of track record of durability?

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the list isn't very long - maybe a grand total of a dozen pitchers or so in both leagues.

Sheets has thrown 601 IP during the same span.

I also think the Cameron rumors are bogus.

It may have been true a month ago, but everything changed the day they decided to sign Teixeira.

I can't believe there are "sign Manny" people still out there. Joe (and others), this is not fantasy baseball. Team chemistry and defense actually matter.

Even when there was a chance the Yanks were looking at Manny, they only wanted a 2 year deal. God help the team that brings Manny in on a two year deal when he thinks he should get four years or more. Only a matter of time till he goes into operation shut down.

I have heard few rumors about the Cuban players. Both intrigue me, and would cost us nothing but money. I believe Marti has actually mentioned the Yankees by name. Seems like we should look into that.

Congratulations to Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice for getting into the Hall of Fame.

ST, did I say anything about Nady? Did I say Swisher was a bargain?? "pretty reasonable contract for a 28 year old switch hitter like Swisher" Compared to 10M for a 36 year old Cameron, Swisher is a steal. As far as your man crush Nady..lets compare the two over the past two years.

Swisher
1036 AB's
250 Hits
46 HR
182 BB
266 K

Nady
986
269 hits
45 HR
62 BB
204 K

They both had the same power, Nady had 19 more hits, Swisher had 120 more walks. Who got on base more? Which one would you prefer? A guy who strikes out twice as much as he walks ( swisher ) or a guy that strikes out 4 times more than he walks? Swisher is going to make 5.3 Million this year, Nady is up for arbitration and will make close to or even more than 5.3 M. So why..

Nady = IS A BARGAIN
Swisher = IS NOT A BARGAIN

Because Nick is here longer? Lets say Swisher goes back to hitting .260 with 25 HR's and 100BB, he'll only be making 6.75M next year. IF the Yanks traded him away and kept Nady, then next year when Nady, Damon and Matsui all walk...what do you want to do about the OF? Want to go out and get Ankiel? What do you think he'll be asking for? At least 7 M and he is not as durable as Nick, nor does he have the ability to take a walk like Swisher. Both guys have the same power, same range in the OF, same K rate and same hit rate.

So now your bargain of Nady over Swisher ( which is not a bargain in 09 because they have the same salary ), may end up costing the team more in 2010 because we have to go out and get another OF for 7M or more. Even the last year of his contract, he'll make 9M with a 1M buyout...or 1 year of Cameron. Hence...."pretty reasonable contract for a 28 year old switch hitter like Swisher"

Sorry for the confusion.

Remember one other thing, Swisher was a pretty highly regarded player before last year. A year where he batted in 8 different spots in the lineup. He was jerked around all year and it wore him out. Does he look like a leadoff hitter to you? Ozzie batted him there to start the year, and it was all down hill from that point.

The White Sox gave up A LOT to get him from the A's. Left-handed pitcher Gio Gonzalez, right-handed pitcher Fautino De Los Santos and outfielder Ryan Sweeney.

Gonzalez led all of minor league baseball with 185 strikeouts while pitching for Double-A Birmingham last year. He was 9-7 with a 3.18 ERA in 27 games, all starts, for the Barons and was named to the Southern League midseason and postseason All-Star teams. The 22-year old left-hander also ranked fourth in the SL in ERA and led SL starters with a .216 opponents batting average. Gonzalez was originally drafted by the White Sox as a compensation pick (38th selection overall) between the first and second rounds of the 2004 First-Year Player Draft. He is 31-28 with a 3.49 ERA in 91 career minor league appearances, 89 starts, and has 577 strikeouts in 492.1 innings.

De Los Santos was named the South Atlantic League's Most Outstanding Major League Prospect and was also named to the SAL midseason and postseason All-Star teams in 2007 after going 9-4 with a 2.40 ERA and .148 opponents batting average in 21 games, 15 starts at Single-A Kannapolis. He also made five starts for Single-A Winston-Salem and combined at both stops for a 10-5 record and a 2.65 ERA in 26 games, 20 starts. The 21-year old Dominican native ranked second in the White Sox farm system in ERA, third in strikeouts (153) and fourth in wins. De Los Santos pitched for the World Team in the 2007 Futures Game in San Francisco in just his second professional season. He has 214 strikeouts in 170.2 career innings.

Sweeney was named the White Sox number one prospect by Baseball America entering the 2007 season and hit .270 with 10 home runs and 47 RBI in 105 games at Triple-A Charlotte. He also hit .200 with a home run and five RBI in 15 games with Chicago and is a .213 career hitter in 33 games over two seasons with the White Sox. The 22-year old left-handed hitting outfielder played for the Arizona Fall League Champion Phoenix Desert Dogs following the season and hit .286 with a home run and 13 RBI in 23 games. Sweeney was originally drafted by the White Sox in the second round of the 2003 draft and will be added to the A's 40-man roster, which now stands at 40.

Swisher batted .262 with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in 150 games with the A's last year in his third full season in the Majors. He added 100 walks for a .381 on-base percentage and he had career highs in batting, on-base percentage, walks and doubles (36). The 27-year old switch-hitter ranked sixth in the American league in walks and was 10th in strikeouts (131). Swisher is a .251 career hitter with 80 home runs and 255 RBI in 458 games. His 80 home runs are a franchise record for a switch-hitter and his .361 on-base percentage ranks ninth in Oakland history.

One bad year and the Yanks stole him for nothing.....now you guys all want to get rid of him because you want Nady for 1 year? The fact that we have Nick past this year increases his value, not the other way around.

Just my opinion......

I really don't want to start another Andy Pettitte fight with Viper - but perhaps because Andy has thrown so many innings and experienced problems down the stretch last season that's a warning sign that the team should stay away from him. I mean if you were buying a car you wouldn't look at an 88 Integra with 150,000 miles on it and say "This is a wise investment, I mean it has obviously been good for the last 20 years, so it's probably still in fine shape."

Michael Young has told the Rangers that he wants to be traded. Texas wants to move Young to 3b so that they can promote Elvis Andrus to play SS and Young wants no part of it. 32 years old and making $16 mil a year for each of the next 5 - good luck moving that.

In the world of the Yankees - a trade that might make sense (and would hurt Boston) would be Xavier Nady and Ian Kennedy to the Diamondbacks for C Miguel Montero and CF Eric Byrnes. Montero is a very good young catcher that Boston is trying to work out a trade for. Byrnes has an annoying contract, but he's the kind of player who will run through a wall for his team. And on a yearly basis the contracts of Nady and Byrnes will probably cancel each other out.

The D'backs are looking for some pop to replace Dunn and Nady would be a short term commitment and a better fielder than Dunn.

As for Montero - The Yankees have a couple of catching prospects (Jesus Montero and Austin Romaine most noteable) but both those guys are at least 3 years away. Miguel could be phased in now and allow Jorge to move to DH full time next season when Matsui leaves via Free Agency.

I mean if you were buying a car you wouldn't look at an 88 Integra with 150,000 miles on it and say "This is a wise investment, I mean it has obviously been good for the last 20 years, so it's probably still in fine shape."

------------------

Chip,

if they were considering a multi-year deal with Pettitte, I'd probably agree with you.

But for a one-year deal, it doesn't concern me.

Maybe if you hadn't advocated the Yanks signing a 42 year old Smoltz coming off his 32nd arm/elbow/shoulder surgery in the last 5years (and telling us what a great signing he was for Boston) I'd probably consider your argument legitimate in this specific case.

But let's not go there again.

You guys probably read this article already, but it looks we should get full seasons from 4 of our top 10 pitching prospects....Brackman, Cox, Melancon and Sanchez in 09

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090111&content_id=3739797&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

All 4 guys are looking healthy, cant wait to follow their progress this year. I think there's a very good chance we'll see 3 of the 4 in the Bronx. I have a man crush on Melancon, I hope he wins a spot in the pen this Spring and ends the year as our 8th inning guy. Im still not sure whey they were pitching him in 2 inning chunks last year..THAT WAS DRIVING ME NUTS!!!! Looks like it may pay off for us this year if he stays healths.

FINGERS CROSSED

CHIP

Byrnes running thru walls is precisely what has landed him on the DL time and time again.Montero ? His defense is questionable ,career 65 steals in 83 attempts off him and he can't hit a lick.

Cervelli the guy you spoke so highly of the other day is a better defensive catcher and probably could hit .275 plus he switchhits.

DRU-
Your far too over-reactive. Many guys are bargains when
compared to Cameron. Heck, why not just compare Swisher
to A. Jones and call him a superstar? Please let's not get into
if Swisher goes back to producing like he did 2 years ago. Leave
that to Karnac. I'm looking at how Swicher's numbers have
declined the last 2 seasons. No hocus-pocus, no tea leaves,
just hard numbers. Again, based on Swisher's numbers
the last 2 seasons, the $$$ guaranteed him the next 3 yrs. is
NO BARGAIN. Nady's numbers the last 2 seasons, vs the $$$
guaranteed him for only 1 year, makes him a bargain.

Not too overreactive, just having some fun Talker. Also, Swisher's numbers declined 1 year, in 07 he had the best Avg and OBP of his young career, most doubles and best K rate. Last year as he was being bounced around the Chicago lineup and had his worst year.

On the flip side Nady had a worse year in 07 than he did in 06 ( lower BA, less BB, more K's, less hits, less doubles ). Nady just had a career year...err, career half year where he hit .330 in 89 Pitt games and .268 in 59 NY games.

So there is no two year decline or two year increase for either player. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Again, never said anyone was a bargain so Im not sure what you keep referring to. Oh well, I think we can both agree that trading Cameron for Swisher is a bad idea...which was the whole point to my post at 10:30.

Before I go out to dinner with the wife, lets play a little game.

Who am I???

Two players total #'s over the past 4 years.

Player X
500 Hits
102 HR
334 BB

Player Y
399 Hits
115 HR
334 BB

Player X = Swisher
Player Y = Giambi

I was shocked to see 334 BB on the nose for both players over the past 4 years. People were asking who was going to replace Giambi's production? How about a younger, faster Nick Swisher.

Arent numbers fun????

DRU,

Full disclosure Giambi 505 games 1575 AB

Swisher 591 games 2054 AB

06 would be considered Swisher's best season ,

he hit .190 w/RISP

and disappeared for 3 months while he rediscovered his stroke.

Career .221 w/RISP

Billy Beane new what he was doing when he unloaded Swisher for prospects,he watched Swisher fail time and time again in pressure situations.

CONGRATS TO RICKEY!!!!!

HAHA, yeah I know, was just trying to have a little fun with numbers Nudgey. However, numbers ARE still numbers. Whether Giambi was injured or benched, he was still cashing those checks.

Over those 4 years Jason cost the Yanks $82 Million Dollars. ( that includes the $5 M buyout and the $6 M deferred bonus money that was paid out over the last 4 years of the deal ). $82 MILLION for the same exact numbers Swisher put up. 479 AB's is like having another entire year of numbers, ( hence the 100 more hits for Nick ). So I agree that when Giambi and Swisher were in their lineups, Jason did more damage per AB. Still, its pretty shocking that the numbers were so close over the past 4 years ( the 1st 4 full seasons for Nick ). I still think Nick has a lot of room to grow and the Yanks got a steal trading away spare parts for him, especially when the White Sox gave up the farm just 10 months prior. I think it was a shrewd move by Cashman and the FO, these are the kind of moves that pay off big time if they hit. If Teix or CC keep doing what their doing, well, we kind of expected that with the big money they got. If Swisher can get back to hitting 35 HR driving in 100, scoring 100 and walking 100 times, while making 5-7 Million, well my friends, those are the moves that are the real payoffs. Nick seemed genuinely excited about playing for the Yanks and proving that last year was a fluke. He's an all out hustle guy that this team has missed for far too long. If Cano had half the desire and heart Nick has, he's be one of the best in the league. Maybe guys like Nick, Teix and CC can rub off on Cano. Im excited about what Swisher can bring to this club in 09 and beyond.

And just to appease the Gods at the alter of Nady

Be mindful, O Nady, of me, Thy humble servant; grant me Thy grace, that I may be diligent and faithful, avoiding evil Red Sox and Rays, resisting Mighty Halos; that you may lead right field with a mighty stick and slick glove, hitting for average and power, ever serving Yankees; that you may be accounted worthy of entering the Pantheon of Yankee Legends. Amen.

MORE FUN WITH NUMBERS!!!!

GIAMBI

2008
RISP = .213
RISP W/2 OUTS = .216
BASES LOADED = .136

2007
RISP = .269
RISP W/2 OUTS = .296
BASES LOADED = .250

SWISHER

2008
RISP = .225
RISP W/2 OUTS = .186
BASES LOADED = .385

2007
RISP = .252
RISP W/2 OUTS = .288
BASES LOADED = .250

Swisher looks A LOT like Giambi in pressure situations over the past two years...dont ya think????

I don't think the Yanks were trying to just duplicate Giambi's production. If that was the case they could have saved some money and re-signed Giambi for about $5M and one year. I know, I know, he's not "athletic" enough...but Swisher was the second worst batter in MLB last season so excuse me if I prefer a guy who may be slow of foot while rounding the bases rather than a guy who athletically runs back to the bench after recording another out.

Having said that, I still don't agree with trading either Nady or Swisher unless it brings back a CF who can hit and that will take a package deal because Nady or Swisher alone won't bring anyone worth while. If no deal is out there, I would not force the issue, I would just go to spring training with the team as is and see if everyone stays healthy. To me, a fourth or fifth starter is a much higher priority than getting rid of an extra OF.

Obviously this post is not original....we've discussed this to death by this point.

Can we please get Manny? Think of the middle of the lineup with ARod, Tex, and Manny. Trade both Swisher and Nady, get young AAA players in return, and sign Manny.

Think of the horrible defense we would have in left with Manny. NO. JUST SAY NO.

Come on Jim, no love for a guy who has hair like this??

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/writers/john_donovan/08/13/donovan.chicago/SwisherHairJPG2.jpg
Nick Swisher

lol

I understand everyones point, I said this a while back that Nick needs to earn a spot on this team. I hope he does, gets his career back on track and does it all while in the Bronx. There's really no controversy here and no need to trade away Nick or Nady. Nady should be starting in RF with Swisher off the bench unless he kills it in the Spring and early on. There is no Nady for Harang trade ( much to my dismay ) so the only options for our 5th spot are the injury risk boys like Sheets and Colon, the innings eaters like Byrd or Leiber or our only real option...Andy.

I guess Im just trying to have a little fun since there is NOTHING going on in Yankee land. Frankly Im sick of the Andy talk so I hope we dont go there again.

Anyone have additional information on Yadel Marti? River Ave touched on it briefly.

http://riveraveblues.com/2009/01/will-the-yanks-make-a-play-for-the-cuban-defectors-6832/

Maybe he could be our 5th starter.

A couple of things:

First there's this from Buster Olney: Heard this, in regards to rumors of a Mike Cameron-Nick Swisher swap: The Yankees have not had any trade talks with the Brewers since the winter meetings, and they are not considering a Cameron-Swisher deal.

Second: Last night on the MLB station Heyman was talking rumors and speculation. He had a couple of interesting tidbits (I'll pause while Viper fumes at me for posting Heyman rumors.....)

....Ok, that should be enough time for him to get the cursing out.

Heyman's rumors were these:

1. The Reds have been trying and failing to land a deal for Jermaine Dye (Buster now reports that the Angels are getting in on Dye with Chone Figgins possibly going the other way). The Reds might like Bobby Abreu but not at his asking price and Garrett Anderson, while more reasonably priced isn't a guy they can count on being healthy. That said, it's entirely possible that there would be a fit between the Yankees and Reds regarding a deal for Xavier Nady.

2. Regarding Andrew Eugene. After publically rejecting the Yankees' offer and finding no teams rushing to his front door he may reconsider the 1 year $10.5 mil that the Yankees had offered. For that to happen though the Yankees have to move either Swisher or Nady per Hal's budget demands. What this means for Andy is that he has to hope that one of these guys gets traded and that the player the Yankees bring back is not a starting pitcher. The other teams he was counting on just don't seem to be interested with the Dodgers prefering Randy Wolf (even with Joe Torre there) the Mets looking at Perez and Lowe, the Braves focused on Lowe, Houston and Texas both looking to cut payroll. Personally I think that the Braves would be smarter to offer Andy a deal than Lowe, but that's not my call. According to Heyman the Mets have offered Ollie Perez 3 years 10 mil per - I don't see that getting it done. Not that Ollie's worth more than that, but Boras is his agent and Scott was talking about getting Perez a Barry Zito type deal so you do the math.

"athletically running back to the bench" LOL - Jim A. - You are one
funny guy! I think sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.
I get a sense, like many Yankee fans in here, that Nady is the
keeper. He was estatic when he found out he was coming to the
Yanks. Granted, so was Swisher.
But because AL pitchers won't be as familiar with him and
because he is another righty bat in the line-up, I think he will
produce. Just because Borass is his agent does not mean
Yanks won't be able to re-sign him. Think it would take about
9 mil. if he has another breakout season. That would still be
a bargain. As for Pettite - if he can't see the market as it is, let
him go. I am one of the BIGGEST Andy supporters, but even I
could see he is no longer a 2-3 starter. For a number 4 starter
10 mil is good money.

Dru,

On Marti all I have is this from ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3798491&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing him as the Yankees 5th starter and having the other player who defected with him, Yasser Gomez, in CF.

Mike -

I think Boras is going to market Nady as one of the top 4 outfielders on next year's free agent market (along with Holliday, Bay and Ankiel).

He'll probably try to get Holliday a Mark Teixeira size deal.

After that Ankiel, Bay and Nady will all probably be priced about the same - figure 6 year deals worth between 12 - 15 mil per.

And then you're going to get into the guys who are a little older and will get shorter term deals like Damon and Magglio.

By the way, all the players I mentioned, Bay, Ankiel, Magglio, Holliday, Nady, Damon - they are all represented by Scott Boras so forget about playing one free agent against another. He's the only shop in town.

Lowe is off the board -- it is reported by the Atlanta Constitution that the Braves and Lowe have agreed to a 4 yr, $60M contract

check it at -- www.rotoworld.com --- MLB tab

DRU-
I'm very disapponinted in you and your numbers. Nudge catches
you with your hand in the cookie jar, and your best defense is
"HAHA'? How can anyone on this Blog now seriously consider
your opinions\observations, when they are based on numbers
you admittedly present in less than an honest fashion? I used
to seriously evaluate your numbers based opinions. I will
henceforth give them the squirrel eye.

Well you can forget about Andy coming back to the Yankees then.

No chance he takes 10 mil for one year when Lowe is getting 15 for 4.

Incidentally - this is a horrible contract for the Braves. They are paying for Derek Lowe to pitch until he's 40

Nudge should be given the evil squirrel eye

Chip, found some more info on our Cubanos =

http://www.newsday.com/sports/ny-spcuba1112349717jan11,0,4065293.story

Since we need a CF and a 5th starter, how great would it be if these guys ( who played together on the same team in Cuba, and have been playing together since 12 ), both joined the Yanks? I love that they flew up to NY and are staying in Oyster Bay LI with a friend. Seems too good to be true! I think both would prefer long term deals, I dont think the Yanks are ready to lock down the #4/#5 hole with an unproven guy for multiple years ( Igawa anyone??? ). Lets hope both guys are interested in signing on with the Yanks for 1-2 year deals on the cheap. Id like to see a pro scout breakdown of their skills, mainly Marti's stuff. His WBC numbers were incredible, but 2 saves? He must have been in their pen, something we dont need.

ST??? Hand in the cookie jar?? I listed the TOTAL #'s for the past 4 years for hits, HR's and BB. I didnt list AB's or Games played because I didnt want to take away from the whole point of my post....which was over the past 4 years they had similar numbers...Period. If anyone was actually watching Yankee games over the past 4 years they would have known that Giambi was banged up during that time while Nick was healthy.

MANY people on here, have stated over and over again that we needed to replace Giambi's production in the lineup. Well what production are we talking about? If we are talking about total numbers with Hits, HR's and BB...then we already have a guy who matched that said production over the past 4 years.

So there was nothing dishonest about my post...at all.

Dru,

Actually the fact that over the same number of years Swisher has almost a full season more of ABs than Giambi is something that works in your favor. It shows Giambalco's lack of durability.

If you want, here's another fun X vs. Y for you:

Player X
2005: .261 BA, .321 OBP, 13 HR, 43 RBI
2006: .280, .337, 17, 63
2007: .278, .330, 20, 72
2008: .305, .357, 25, 95

Player Y
2005: .236, .322, 21, 74
2006: .254, .372, 35, 95
2007: .262, .381, 22, 78
2008: .219, .322. 24, 69

Player X is Nady
Player Y is Swisher

Outside of Batting average Swisher has been the more productive offensive player in every category.

DRU,

If you want to compare value based on their contracts....well then there is no argument. Giambi's contract the past 4 years is hard to defend. Even if he hit like Matsui he would have been grossly overpaid. As for Swisher, the signing of Teixiera leaves him without a purpose. He certainly has no value as an outfielder and was a barely decent 1B alternative to what they had last year. The problem is he may be unmovable...unless the Yanks take a bad contract in return.

Nudge,

I tend to agree with you on Swisher.

I find it funny (like old fish funny) when I see rumors about the Yankees getting something useful back if they were to deal Swisher. The Yankees gave up Wilson Betemit (who they were going to cut) and Jeff Marquez (who they were going to leave unprotected for the Rule 5 draft) for him. He hasn't swung a bat since the trade so how would his value be increased from where it was then?]

The Yankees best bet with Swisher is that he rebounds from last season.

That said, Nady has real value and could bring back a player who can contribute either in center or the back of the rotation. That's why I think he's the one the Yankees will end up trading. Teams are just going to wait and see what he gets in arbitration before making a commitment to him.

DRU,

I generally dont get into the money factor when comparing players. I see too many times where fans get angry at a player when they compare them to someone else making a lot less money. They should actually be angry at the GM who signed them to that contract but instead blame the player for taking the money. Funny how misplaced the blame always is.

Nudge -

Wasn't it George Young who said, giving a guy 10 million doesn't make him a better

Chip,

Agreed. I think they picked him up just in case they had no luck at 1B, which leaves me to believe they never thought they would be in the Tex mix early on. Nady's added value in a trade is the best asset in all of Baseball.....the one year contract.

Chip,

I believe so. Thats advice that George S never took.

The clincher for the AL East title will be the signing of Manny ! Listen to the silence regarding Manny at this time, he is coming, he is coming....

Yeah Chip, thats all I was trying to portray, the bottom line of total stats which is all that really matters in the end. If Giambi is not on the field, he cant produce...but he'll keep cashing those checks These are all things that I said in my posts earlier about Giambi and Swisher....I guess those parts were skipped over...you know, everything after the HAHAHA.

I could also give you the "squirrel eye" for your proclamation that Swisher has experienced a 2 year decline while Nady has experienced a 2 year surge, both are not true as I proved with numbers yesterday...and Chip illustrated above. Unless you're just talking about HR and RBI's...nah, cant be, you're too sharp for that to know that Avg, Hits, OBP, K rate and walk rate all illustrate how good/bad a player's year was more than HR..or RBI which is mostly about opportunities. Nah, you already know that.

Its OK ST, I still love ya, you can give me the squirrel eye anytime, but my wife may get a little jealous.

= )

Nudge..I hear ya on the money end. From the hitting end though, its just funny how some thought we still didnt have enough offense by signing Tex because, "who would replace the X-HR's and X-BB that left with Giambi and Abreu". Well, I think those detractors would be pleased to see that Tex and Nick Swisher can produce more HR and BB than those two. Tex being more of a lock than Swisher to reach 500 AB's, but its still good to know there is an option...even if Nick has a long way to go to get back on track to reaching those lofty numbers Giambi gave us the past 6 years...you know ( .247 BA, .236 BA, .253 BA, .271 BA, .208 BA, .250 BA ), or one whole year over .253. As a side note, Nick has eclipsed that BA twice in the past 3 years. You guys are right though, Nicks a bum, lets trade him now while we can!

I love this site, and I love you guys and gals!!!! Dont you go changin on me! I wouldnt have it any other way, seriously.

DRU,

Since Swisher did have the lowest BA of anyplayer in the league with enough AB's to qualify of the batting title, it's not a reach to say he will improve this year.

What's alarming is his K numbers and lack of clutch hitting. Since he has been a #2, #6, #7 hitter then the K's are significant. Not putting the ball in play with runners on base behind the leadoff man and the meat of the order is real weak. He becomes the guy teams select to pitch to becames he is the easy out. They will not be afraid to pitch him tough. Unless he is the everyday #2 guy the OBP means squat. Its just like with Abreu....when there are men on base do you want the guy working out a walk or looking to drive the ball?

Why compare Giambi to Swisher ? The real comparison is between Tex and the guy he just replaced Swisher.

As Nudge said above Swisher is without a purpose outside of having some trade "value".

DRU,

As for the "Not enough hitting" argument....it is understandable and a good case could be made.

The thing is it's based on a lot of question marks. If you figure this lineup:

Damon
Jeter
Tex
A-Rod
Matsui
Posada
Nady
Swisher/Gardner/Melky
Cano

There are many ways you can find concern.

Is Posada coming back and what production
Is Damon the 2008 version or the 2007 version
Will Cano ever become a good consistent hitter
What does Matsui have left
Will any CF hit his weight
Will A-Rod be the 2007 version or the 2006 version
Is Jeter going to continue to slide
Will Nady have another .300 year
Will Tex produce as expected

All these are impossible to answer but are all legitimate concerns. They probably all end up somewhere in the middle as a whole which if so is not a killer lineup.

ST,

The people here who have facility with numbers use them 'creatively' to support whatever position they feel like expressing in the moment. Is that very different from those of us who have facility with language or analytical concepts using those abilities in the same way? It's equally 'buyer beware' on all fronts. I try to be aware of who has what tendencies -- and if I know their facility with whatever tool they're using is greater than mine, I am especially cautious, because I know that with many commenters the desire to appear a 'winner' dwarfs any desire to enlighten.

Chip,

You forgot to mention Heyman's other trade rumor he floated last night on Hot Stove.

He said the Yanks could be a destination for Michael Young and shifted to second base - even though Young has been making a big stink about moving from short stop to third base in Texas and has requested a trade in recent days for that very reason.

The Yanks would then trade Cano for pitching or a center fielder.

Um, yeah, Heyman - whatever you say.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out Heyman is talking out of his arse.

Here's my thing, and no it isn't about Andy, it's about CF.

Every time I mention that the Yankees would do well if they moved Nady for a starting CF I hear "with this lineup Gardner or Melky should be able to hold it down"

And that's all well and good. But that was the same argument that was made last year and then Matsui, Alex, Posada got hurt and Cano didn't produce and all of a sudden we had to get Melky out of CF.

I've been pretty up front about the fact that I don't have much faith in Matsui playing a full season and that the health of Posada is a bigger concern among the Yankees than we know.

To some, that would scream "well then keep Swisher and Nady so that if Matsui goes down you can slide Swisher into the DH spot" and that's a valid argument. But I think that the team can find someone who can produce off the bench (an Eric Hinske or Garrett Anderson) for less money than what Swisher is making and I think they can deepen their lineup by solidifying CF by moving Nady.

Viper -

I didn't hear that Heyman rumor. That one is quite silly.

However he was again the first to report about the 4 years $60 mil that the Braves were giving Lowe.

As for Young, I think it's funny that reaction around the league (both from GMs and player agents) think he's being a baby and the team should say "Look, we can't trade you because of your contract, no one will touch it. But if you don't want to play third that's fine, just sign here and we'll void that contract of yours and you can sign with any team you like..."

FIRST OF all ,

nady has been in the NL all of his career. His joining a AL team especially a powerhouse lineup so who knows what his numbers would do in such a lineup for a whole season at this point there is more to proove from Nick , however the biggest weapon is having both in the lineup they are more of the blue print the team needs

Chip,

I don't really care about any writer being first to report a story. He was the first one to report Jason Bay going to the Rays back in July, too.

What I do think is Heyman's major downfall is his BS speculation on what is being discussed in the front office and a lot of the trade rumors he floats around.

I remember one day when Heyman was talking to Francesa and said that the Yanks were going to go really hard after Manny this offseason, Moose was NOT going to retire, and Larry Bowa was going to be their 3B coach in 2009.

I couldn't stop shaking my head in disbelief that any insider with so many alleged ties in the Yankee front office could be so out of touch.

That's why I've never been a fan of Heyman. He does that kind of thing quite often and there's not a whole lot of logic behind many of his floated rumors.

Bomber -

I just don't forsee Nady being with this team long term. I could be completely off on what his asking price will be next winter, but if I'm not, if he's in the same range as a Bay or Ankiel and only a little less than Holliday, then couldn't you see the Yankees saying "lets go after one of those better players instead?"

Also, I don't think you can have both of them in the lineup - at least not without cringing when a ball is hit to the outfield. The only configuration that has them both in it features Damon in CF flanked by Nady and Swisher - now I can live with Nady and Swisher in the corners, but Damon will need three throws to get the ball to the infield.

In an ideal world, I would love for the Yankees to unload Matsui and use Swisher at DH with Nady in RF with Damon in LF and a good glove man in CF - but the idea of trading Matsui is a pipe dream.

Nudge is quite correct when he says that between his production, age, and one year contract, Nady has value around the league. Trading him could bring back someone who can help this team not just in the short term, but down the road as well. If, for example, the Yankees were to trade Nady for a young player like Denard Span and a utility player like Brendan Harris - that would give the team a legitimate player in CF for this year who can move to a corner next year if Jackson is ready and give them some depth on their bench. Or maybe they deal him to Arizona for Chad Tracy who could fill in at any corner position you need and the relief pitcher Tony Pena who started to emerge as a very good set up man last season. Of course - my preference would be a straight up 1 for 1 with the Yankees sending Nady to the Cards for Rick Ankiel.

Chip..

Your not getting a valid CF for Nady just not happening even with MIl first off the team would be dumb to trade swish for a rental, and nady for Cameron is null as well.

The Pirates pulled the wool over the yankees eyes for the man but at the time of trade it works out due to them having two seasons at this point the man is a FA after the season so what you would get back is a Wilson Betemit , Jason marquis type players for Nady. however if nady is going strong during the season will his value jump and at that point it would be too late to do extension for sure. I think he will be an exceptional AL player

Nady may just be one of those players that produces enough and is well liked in all the places he plays. Yet he never wows people enough to say "We need to keep this guy". He does enough things well that you can always find a place for him on your team. But he doesn't do any one thing well enough that you are hurting the team by being without it. So he becomes tradable!

Vipes ...

You was correct the player I want in Detroit is Curtis Granderson, this is whom the Yankees is hoping Austin Molds after. I would go for the gusto and try and get him if the situation presented itself.

I have been skimming the rosters of teams to see who had a
possible match the Yankees could use: CF and SP. Guess what?
Unless the Yanks trade for Juan Pierre or Eric Byrnes - there are
no options in the trade market unless the Royals want to trade
DeJesus for pitching (Kennedy, Veras).
I would trade Swisher for minor league AA or A prospects, keep
Nady and pick up a short term CF option like Edmonds. He had
an okay season and could play the majority of the time with
Gardner giving him a blow once in a while. Think someone else in
here suggested the same thing and this is a good alternative
if the Yanks are giving AJax another year in the minors.
Yanks should also look into what it would take to get Bedard or
Washburn from the Mariners. They both would be good #4 starters
and might consider taking Swisher, Melky and a minor
league pitcher with some upside in the deal.

That might change in the AL.

Plus Boras Knows that nady cannot compete salary wise with the Bay's , holliday's

however if their production is simular to Nady's then the team will go for the cheaper option. Holliady would be the one most effected if he does not perform on a certain level.

Mike,

Maybe that trash will bring back Washburn but no way on Bedard. Assuming he is healthy he is ahead of Burnett in the rotation.

Nudge/Chip, you could go to any lineup in the league and have ?'s. Like the Sox...

Lowell...will he be healthy this year
Oritz...ditto
Youk and Dustin...with they continue their high level of playing or fall like Arod and Posada did after their big years in 07.
Drew..always an injury risk
Ellsubury...will he bounce back this year
Who will catch?
Who will protect Papi?
Who will play LF?

etc etc

I know the Yankee lineup has ?'s, but what lineup doesnt?

Diane/ST... I dont have to justify any of my posts to either of you, and if you dont want to read them, dont. However, I like you gals so I want to be clear. I agree that statistics in general has the ability to paint any picture you desire, but I assure you that there was no misleading being done. The only point I wanted to make with that short post last night was total production over the past 4 years..period. Not durability, not HR's per AB, not production per AB...total numbers. Im not sure how that got twisted. Nudge pointed out that they did not have equal AB's, which is true, but still doesn't refute my point. The fact that Swisher played in 86 more games is irrelevant. The facts are we paid a guy 81M over the past 4 years to put up X amount of numbers. Some people were happy to get rid of Jason, while others supported his body of work over the past 4 years. Some people are bashing Nick Swisher who put up basically the same exact numbers over that same time frame. Others said he was not a "bargain" or as I say, "reasonable contract", at his current price, but supported bringing back Jason for 5M ( the same money Nick would make ).

I could care less about being right, something Ive learned by being married. I just want people to see the facts, the best way to show them the facts is to show the stats. People will say that the numbers dont always show the entire picture. Thats for sure, but I will counter that by saying dont always believe everything you see . Case in point, Arod. Do you know now many stupid Yankee fans I have to deal with every time I go to a game? It will be the 1st inning and the guys strikes out...here come the boo birds. People will say, "He cant hit in the clutch" Well the guy is well over a .300 hitter with RISP, so that argument is crap. People dont see Arod succeed 30% of the time, they see him fail 70% of the time. People's perceptions are usually skewed for whatever they feel about a ball player...Jeter can do no wrong, Arod can do no right....but the almighty stat doesnt lie. Nady is another example, people act like he's the 2nd coming of Oneil. We cant say that for sure, does he have a 50/50 chance, sure. People tend to believe that Nady is some savior and Swisher is garbage. Well that's thrown out the window too when you compare their stats over the past 4 years ( Thanks Chip ).

I tried to give the stats of two players over 4 years, Nudge throws in..hey but you forgot that Swisher had more AB's. I laugh about it and say, yeah you're right, then hammer home my point about total numbers over 4 years. For that Diane and ST now want to say that I fudge the numbers for my own personal gain to be right?

You guys couldnt be more wrong. I miss just as many times as I hit, when I do, Ill be the 1st to point it out...or at least 2nd. Being right means nothing, all I do is give an opinion, just like the rest of blog world.

I just saw this on www.rotoworld.com - MLB tab

Sources have told FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal that the Braves have talked to the Yankees about Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady as they seek an upgrade in left field.

Charlie Morton and Jo-Jo Reyes are both expendable now, and one of the two could go for an outfielder. Swisher would be the better option for the Braves, though they might prefer the one year commitment to Nady.
Source: FOXSports.com
Related: Xavier Nady

Screw trades.....

Our offense is fine and there is nothing wrong with going into the season with Nady and Swisher. Depth is good. Options are good. We can always talk trades during the season if for some reason a hole is created due to injury.

Only one move needs to be made. Sign Pettitte. He will stabilize the rotation completely. Right now I really do not see our rotation as being a whole lot more stable than last year......even though it definitely has a lot more potential.

DRU,

Its OK, your point wasn't lost on me or some of the others. I just threw out additional info for digestion not meaning to shoot the argument down but just give additional numbers and provide a different angle to view them from

You are correct about other question marks but the Yanks aren't ones that Boston has of "How good can Youklis and Pedroia be" Their are "Is Posada ever gonna play again". Along those lines. They are a much older team offensively than just about anyone else. Along with that are questions about durability and fading numbers.

But again.....all questions with no way to answer so its all moot! But it is something you can think about. Spring Training begins to give us some insight to what might be coming (tiny insight).

if you trade either of them then what becomes your bench?

Mc,

The problem with waiting till the season starts is that there usually isn't any movement until July. Usually late July. And then your options are usually reduced to bad contracts or potential FA's. And waiting for the season leaves you with trading what you have...which if it isn't helping you then you need someone else to overvalue whats right in front of them to see.

In the off-season its easier to sell a Cano comeback than it is in July when he is hitting .260.

Nudge...I hear ya buddy, thats why I laughed about it when I saw your post. I didnt take it as...OH NO, HE FOUND ME OUT!!! I was just trying to have some fun with numbers ( as stated in that post and the reply to your post ). Nothing wrong with a little fun now and again?? Right guys??? Anyone who's watched the Yanks over the past 4 years knows how many times Giambi has been MIA, I didnt realize it was a big secret.

Oh well...back to baseball, I would think the Yanks with Posada and the Sox with Lowell are in the same boat. Matsui and Papi....ehh, similar. Damon and Drew, very similar. Youk and Dustin really remind me of Arod and Jorge two years ago, can the Sox depend on them repeating such gaudy numbers? We did and got burned in 08, hopefully they get a little toasted in 09. With Swisher backing up the OF and DH spots, I feel good about Matsui and the rest of the OF's being able to stay healthy over the course of the year. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Nudge....thats all fine and dandy but do you really think the Yanks should make a trade just because they have 1 to many outfielders? I highly doubt they are going to get anything in return that really addresses any of our concerns.

Our concerns (in my eyes) being:
1. A Starting CF who can produce more than Gardner/Melky
2. A 200inning Starting Pitcher to completely stabilize the rotation
3. Upgrade to Randsom/Angel as a Utility IF

Despite all the rumors, I still think Nady and Swisher are going to stick around for awhile and see what happens in Spring Training.

It only takes a tweaked hammy by Damon running down the first base line (or a tweaked knee by Matsui) to give both Nady and Swisher significant playing time.

Unless Cashman is blown away by an offer (highly unlikely), I don't think he'll trade Nady.

Nady may just be one of those players that produces enough and is well liked in all the places he plays. Yet he never wows people enough to say "We need to keep this guy". He does enough things well that you can always find a place for him on your team. But he doesn't do any one thing well enough that you are hurting the team by being without it. So he becomes tradable!
____________________________

Nudge - I believe you just described Bobby Abreu as well.

SQUIRREL EYE-

I'll heed your advice and cease reading your posts\stats.
Burn me once shame on............ ah, you know the rest.

Pettitte AND MANNY ! We'd be locked in for the playoffs....

I love Granderson! Can you imagine all the triples he would rack up for the Yanks? Great player, great fit and from what I've read, an all around great guy.

No problem Squirrel Talker, Ill keep putting up facts and you can keep talking about hocus-pocus and tea leaves.

Still waiting for evidence about your two year increase in numbers for Nady and two year decrease in numbers for Swisher. Ok I see, you can make a statement and give no evidence, but I have to disclose every detail or its heresy. Makes sense. Be honest, this is about me being "far too over-reactive" isnt it, hurt your feelings my dear? Come on now, its all fun and games.

I think you have a crush on me, dont hate me because Im beautiful.

Wait, Straight Talker...I remember last year about this time I was getting chippy with another female poster ( no not you Diane with your "ninja" posts that seem to take little shots at me any chance you get, dont worry my dear, Im a big boy and can take it )...are you really marianne ST????

REPENT!!! AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED!!!

Dru,
You have to admit, that was a bit of a sham- comparing numbers and not disclosing the fact that Swish had so many more AB's. Are you sure you haven't worked for Freddie Mac? hahahah

DRU,

And I always thought the Ninja posts were directed at me....go figure. I think maybe Squirrel TAlker has had one run up his pant leg. Taking himself a bit tooooo seriously.

Mc,

Im not suggesting anything be done. Just pointing out the lack of value in Swisher and the lack of options to do anything with him. He was an insurance plan that they may have to stick with for the rest of the season.

Jim A...worse..BEAR STEARNS!!!! LOL Cant believe that one post caused so much controversy. If my wife would have been ready sooner to go out last night, none of this would have happened. Then again, what fun would a blog be without a little controversy?? Honestly Jim, I knew they had a different number of AB's, I guess my point was just flat out missed. Oh well..I guess many of these posts can get lost in translation when you cant see people eye to eye.

Nudge...I get the sense that Diane will throw jabs at everyone from time to time. She's one hell of a Ninja, love ya Diane! Keep em coming! As far as ST, its all fun and games. I wonder why the women on this blog always hate me? It must be because instead of seeing my million dollar smile and disarming eyes, they see my broken English and Bernie Madoff charm. To them Im the used car salesman from Jersey City. DING ( DRU smiles and shows his 24 carat tooth with a diamond in the middle )

back to baseball = Im glad Lowe is off the market, good move by him getting his 15M per and staying safe and sound in the NL.

Scarlet Knight,

I saw that rumor and think I would rather have Reyes IF there was any truth to it but I hope there is not.

Nudge brings up a good point, how ready and healthy is Posada going to be? I don't care what he says
I just don't trust him playing Catcher with a bad wing. And last time I saw a bad wing affects hitting a baseball.
I say keep all the surplus in the OutField and either sign Pettitte or go after Perez at 3 years...I know most of
you guys and gals think it is nuts but I think he could do well at 4 or 5. I also know it may block Hughes but
Hughes has done a better job of blocking Hughes than anyone else;-)..though he is young and I haven't given
up on him yet. You can never have enough pitching and in Yankee stadium enough Left handed pitching...
just my 2 cents. ;-)

The Yankees lack real speed in their starting lineup, Johnny Damon is not expected to have 30 steals again this year. He is in a contract year, and it is a perception that players play better during that time. I think that they could move Xavier Nady, and get back two quality triple-A players. Swisher seems like he is prime for a strong season, and playing in NY, could bring on that resurgence that fans love to see out of players. The Yankees can also benefit from keeping them both, i just think that their is a speed guy missing. I know Brett Gardner is there to take center field from Melkey, or Melkey is ready to give it away, but he doesn't seem like he will be able to scare the pitcher enough to see anything other than the fastball. He looks like he wants to be a clutch hitter, winning a few games, but he needs to hover in the .350- .400 on- base. He does that the Yankees can win 100 games.