On the Yankees beat

I am assuming that because of his innings limits Joba will be the fifth starter. Wang as things now stand is first. Front Office has said NYY is out to acquire multiple pitchers from those available on the market, and most speculation has it that they meant CC and one of the next tier of Lowe, Burnett, etc. That leaves one space vacant. Most people here seem to operate on the assumption that Pettitte will be back. That makes five.

Where's the space for Hughes?

And why would such a very young kid as Hughes, who has by no means established that he is able to handle MLB hitters on a regular basis and appears to still have a somewhat thin repertoire of pitches, not be better off spending much of the coming year in the minors? He is performing well now against a very low level of hitting -- should that make us assume he'll be ready to be thrown into deep water in the spring?

Diane -

maybe his mindset would be different whe nhe realizes he has to compete for a spot. last year he was told he had a spot which led to alot of pressure BC should have taken a page from the sox on how to market Youth pitching did'nt one of their youth pitch a no - no? was he GUARANTEED a rotation spot?

Bomber,

He certainly needs to compete for a spot rather than having it donated like a late Christmas present, but what spot?

I can't see one until some one of the list I named gets injured (someone always does) or booted from the rotation for non-performance (this is less frequent but can happen).

That would have Hughes competing, but from out of town.

Or is there something I'm not seeing?

Diane,
I think Hughes will bounce back between Scranton and New York quite a bit next year. He'll be the first option they go to if/when someone in the rotation gets hurt.

The post about Hal taking over the Yankees wasn't really the latest topic long enough today and I saw DC Yank addressed it earlier so I'd like to weigh in.

There were times when I couldn't stand George and there were times that I thought the Yanks would be better off without him, as they appeared to be when he was suspended. However, no owner in sports has brought such a passion for winning as George M. Steinbrenner and while his teams appeared to develop more when he was out of baseball, he was the one who put the people in place to make those things happen. We applauded almost all the moves he made in November, December and January every year and when the Yanks needed to fill a hole in July, George never said no.
Sure, he was way too involved in every aspect of the team, but he owned the team and that is his right.

This man made it his life's mission to see the Yankees win the World Series every year and as a fan, that is what I want too.
The poll on Newsday's sports page today asked opinions about whether George was good for the Yanks/baseball or not and one of the choices was something about him wanting to win at all costs and it wasn't good for baseball. Well, I'm from the old school I guess where you squash the competing companies at all costs and that's the way George ran the Yanks, he wanted to win every game- just like we wanted.

Let's not forget the "lost souls" George helped out along the way- from Doc Gooden and Darryl Strawberry to Diana Munson and Elston Howards families- something tells me if you worked for George, and you could handle it, he was as loyal to you as he expected you to be to the company.

Through all the good times and bad times, George gave us fans a helluva ride!

Thank you George!

I'm with you Jim A. on the thanks to George!

And while I'm at it, now that it's official, my thanks go out to Moose as well, that singlehanded justification of FA pitching acquisitions! Love seeing him go out with class, on his own terms and at a high point, instead of trying to squeeze out every single dollar and every single moment in the spotlight as so many do on the down side of their careers. Wish him well buying and renovating old cars and tractors, raising those little guys, and continuing to serve actively on the Board of the Little League (for those who hate to see him disappear entirely from the sport), since its head office is right in his neck of the woods. Bon voyage Moose as you set out on the next stage of life!

Ah yes, Farewell to The Moose!

The Moose made me eat a lot of crow this year as I was one of his biggest detractors but I was happy to eat every helping of that bird and I am very happy for him to wrap up what was a fine career.
He made a believer out of me this past season and he seemed to enjoy himself more than usual. I really liked the way he counseled the youngsters as well and I would not be surprised to see him turn up as a pitching coach after the boys are grown up enough for him to spend some time away.

He was a great FA signing for the Yanks.

Good luck with the next phase of your life Mike!

Diane -

Hughes would have been competing for the 5th spot with Joba.

Now all of you is probally laughing your A*** off at me but simply hear me out

it would have been a win win situation

If joba dominated in ST and shows he could have the stamina to pitch many innings then it's a no brainer he is your 5th starter and that ladies and gentlemen would be a beast of a problem for opposition.

lets say Joba dominates but cannot pitch more than 5 innings and Hughes is dominant as a SP then Joba goes to the Pen and Hughes is inserted as long as we have at least three SP signings (including andy) the reason Isay this is because even if Hughes is in the rotation he should be a 4 or 5 Starter due to the fact that he would be building his confidence as he would probally dominate the oppositions 4th or 5th starter.

As for Joba to the pen well if he ends up there and the rotation is intact and he is not dominant enough to be a SP then you groom him to be Mo's successor we forget that MO probally have what two years left then we need a closer , does anyone want to even remember the days when we dired for a closer?

I see what you're saying, Bomber, and thank you for the reminder that Joba, wonderful as he has been in important ways, is still a question mark in terms of staying both dominant and healthy over a long season.

I hope the Yanks don't back themselves into a corner this offseason. If we go into next year w/out CC and w/ an overpaid Burnett and/or Lowe I'll blow my top.

Yanks need some leverage and FAST ... suck it up and sign Andy for 1 year $12 million. I'm sure Andy would sign for that. Then twist CC's arm until he cries uncle (or in this case ... MONEY). Now you have a rotation of CC-Wang-Joba-Andy-5th spot

The 5th spot is made to order for guys like Hughes, Aceves, Kennedy, etc. WE DON'T NEED A STUD IN EVERY SPOT. We'll have plenty of options for that last spot.

Stay away from Lowe (numbers got real solid once he went to NL) and Burnett (guy only pitches well in contract years??? along w/ his injury hiistory??? go eff yourself Burnett) ... if we want another guy, offer Sheets a 2 year deal w/ option years ... or give him some kind of performance based deal so yanks don't eat crow again (ala Pavano). Sheets is a dominant pitcher when healthy ... he's a cheaper option than either AJ or Lowe and in my opinion a better pitcher.

Then offer Tex a solid contract (6 years $120 mill) and if he blows us off go after DeJesus from KC and leave Swisher at first.

how many wins that final spot had and what if Joba is not the stamina man and what if Andy is pure garbage now?

we need what we can get right now teams are only geting better and if we are stuck on this we are the Yankees ego then we are in for it if they need to sign AJ then so be it I rather him than watching another Ian kennedy meltdown by the 4th inning.

Correction to my post on the last thread....

Hughes
Age 20-21 - 4.46 ERA
Age 21-22 - Hurt ( never threw a MLB pitch as a 22 year old )

I forgot that Phil did come back at the end of last year. His official numbers as a 22 year old?

12 IP
9 hits
3 ER
2 BB
10K
2.25 ERA
0.92 WHIP
.209 BAA

That included an eight inning, 100 pitch, no BB, 6 K, gem at Toronto.....head to head with AJ Burnett. Yanks ended up winning the game. Maybe Phil has figured something out? Like John Danks and John Lester did this past year? Lets see if he can carry this over into the Spring. I think everyone would love for Phil to force the Yanks hand. What a great problem that would be, too many solid SPers and not enough spots. Ill take those problems any day of the week. I want to see Phil earn it this year, I want to see some fire!! Lets see if he has IT.

Yea. Hear hear. (Throat clearing.) Good job, old chaps.

dru
You are right about him doing exceptional when coming back especially vs. Toronto but let's not forget hughes' second big league start he was throwing a 7 inning no hitter to Texas before hamstring issues removed him.

Seth,
We can't also forget that the hamstring turned into an ankle problem and he was gone for the whole season.

This season he had the rib thing, then the eye sight issue and then we hear about a finger nail in the AFL- this is a disturbing pattern if you ask me.

I want Hughes to succeed badly, but if he gets injured again in the near future, I think we're going to end up a very frustrated fan base.

A couple of things:

1. What Hughes does, whether he starts in the majors or AAA is going to depend on whom the Yankees sign this winter. I still think that when all is said and done, ten years from now we'll look back at a decade over which Hughes and Joba combined to form one of the more dominating tandems of pitchers we've seen with the Yankees.

2. If we're to believe what Ken Rosenthal is selling, then the Yankees are no more inclined to deal Hughes for Jake Peavy than they were to deal him for Johan Santana - but, also according to Rosenthal, Hughes may not be a dealbreaker for the Padres if the Yankees wanted Peavy. They would be willing to take other prospects - again I don't think Peavy is coming here and I don't think the Yankees would even really explore it deeply until other options (Burnett, Sabathia) were off the board.

That brings me to something that disturbed me from yesterday - Hal's big mouth:

Here's the thing that separates Hank from Hal (and frankly, as long as they have the same commitment to winning as their father did/does I don't care who is running the show) - when Hank opens his mouth it may sound like he's being a blowhard - but at least he's not hurting the team. Hal, on the other hand, just proved he can be as big a blowhard and do much more damage than Hank could.

We all know the stories, CC Sabathia would rather pitch in the National League or on the West Coast than for the Yankees. This is not news. So to overcome this the Yankees have to blow him away with an offer. Also it wouldn't hurt if they rolled out the red carpet for him and his wife - made nice as it were - like a college trying to recruit a star prospect. What does Hal do on Day 1 as owner of the Yankees - he offers an ultimatum to Sabathia telling him that the Yankees won't wait for him to make up his mind and are prepared to move on if he doesn't make a decision in their timeline. That's smart. The guy is looking for a reason to not come here and you go out and give it to him. Now I know there are some bloggers on here like Viper who worship at the altar of Hal and loathe Hank but that soundbite right there could prove more damning to the future of the Yankees than anything Hank has said in the last two years.

Every time I hear people talk about Hughes' injury history, I always have to highlight the fact that Josh Beckett has been placed on the DL eleven times during his career - nine times with the Marlins alone.

And as far as Hal's soundbyte is concerned, I agree it probably wasn't the smartest thing in the world to say - but I don't really think it's any big deal.

Hal only said that the deal wasn't going to be there forever. He didn't set any specific time line whatsoever and was pretty vague.

Again, not a smart thing to say - but Hank has said and done far worse.

And for the record, I don't worship at the alter of Hal. I just think he's obviously much smarter than his brother and always kept quiet about their plans - again, unlike his blow hard brother.

I said made the argument long before anyone else on this board that Hal was really the guy in charge and not Hank - yet it was the elder Steinbrenner who everyone viewed as the guy in charge.

Hell, even the media had that one wrong for awhile until recently.

Viper -

As I said, as long as they're willing to follow in George's footsteps when it comes to running the Yankees, I don't really care which brother is in charge.

But how is Hank saying that the Yankees are going to spend money to get pitchers, saying that they might have interest in Manny, or even blustering about Joe Torre - more damaging than potentially ticking off a player that the Yankees desperately need to sign?

I agree Chip,

that was a retarded move, The red carpet treatment should have been rolled out but when you have a bunch of Geeks running the team and not real baseball men.

Knowing that CC had issues with the East (i did,nt know he hit a 446ft Hr) and AL an all out pursuit of comfort should have been provided along with the money.

When concerns of Mussina wariness of New York was reported when he was a FA Torre made it his business to recruit him.

And as for Girardi he should have been begging to talk to him

Yankee Bri was right, lock up Pettitte for a year and 12 million and forget about Burnett and Lowe. I think Joba should be in the pen, but if they are tagging him as a starter, and assuming they get CC, you have Wang and Pettitte to round out your top 3 Joba as a part time starter with Aceves and Hughes as your number 5.
A few things that I have to bring up here. Remember when Cashman let Pettitte get away to Houston? I seriously think that having him in our rotation during that span would have afforded us another WS title. Don't mess around and just sign him. He is a SOLID number 3 no question! If Andy is not worth $16 million at season why do people think that Lowe is worth $15 million per over four? Don't buy into the Boras hype, Lowe was barely over .500 during the 4 years with the Dodgers. And Burnett?!?!?! he is too big a risk to spend that money on in my opinion.
Hughes is not prone to injury contrary to popular belief. It was a hamstring and rib injury that cost him the better part of 2 seasons. Both injuries are not career lingering injuries so lets just chalk it up to freak injuries and see what he does this year. I say he is good for 11 wins.

Hopeful 2009 rotation:
Sabathia
Wang
Pettitte
Hughes
Joba/Aceves (on inning limits)

I think if you have this rotation and forget about lowe and Burnett you hit Teixeira up for a 6 year deal and roll the dice. I would feel pretty darn good if that was the team.