Given up?
With a West Coast night game, the only way I can get my game stories in any editions of the newspaper is if it's a quick game, and even then the story's got to be sent by the time the game ends. Typically I send the bulk of the story in maybe the eighth inning with a quick topper at the end.
The reason I explain this is to set up the following: Last night, in a lopsided game, I was well into my game story when the fight broke out between Ivan Rodriguez and Torii Hunter. The gist of my story, much of which got scrapped after the fight, was that before the game one disgusted longtime Yankee -- wondered if some of his teammates had given up.
The effort seemed to be lacking, though you can't always assume someone isn't trying just because they're playing poorly. But it seemed like too many people fit that description right now for it to be a coincidence.
It's one thing for players to realize that they have virtually no chance of making the playoffs this season. Deep down, they all know that. But it's another thing to play as if your offseason vacation is underway and these are meaningless spring training games. There still should be pride on the line, enough to make you give max effort.
Hours after the person wondered if other Yankees had given up, they were losing 6-1. After the fight I worked in that well, Ivan Rodriguez showed a little fight. But for the most part, in what turned out to be a 12-1 Yankee loss, they seemed awfully punchless.
What do you think? Do you agree with the veteran? Have they thrown in the towel?
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Comments (32)
13:11 wasn't me
What's the point of a troll like that?
It's a legit statement... then why sign MY name to it?
Come on Kat!
Spill the beans!
Who was the long time Yankee?
Was it Jeter?
I think it was Pavano
Thown in the towel? I think it was more of a shovel toss with the towel not even reaching its intended destination.
This is a careless, apathetic, lackadaisical team that is barely limping to the finish line of a truly horrendous season.
These guys need an attitude overhaul and that means gettting rid of the dead wood and infusing this team with some hungry, prideful players who don't quit when the going gets rough.
Here's looking forward to a much more successful 2009 and some selective amnesia in forgetting 2008.
Can you tell from the lopsided score of 12-1? I can't or losing 2of 3 from Seattle, I can't. I look at the lineup and only one name pops up at me, Cano. I believe his head is so messed up right now. He'd swing at any pitch within 3 feet of the plate. Off the field I believe that his head is pointing in the wrong direction.
I'm sure Cano has the support of his agent, family and close friends but he's a 25 year old kid with a 30 million dollar contract. There is much temptation off the field. Why do I say this? I watched his play all year and the focus was no where in sight.
As far as the other players, this team is made up of class acts on the field who have pedigrees for star play. I just believe the disease called clutch hitting and situational hitting as become lost to them. And when a team hits with pressure on their shoulders game and game out because of suspect pitching especially the starting rotation. This illness has to take its toll.
Unfortunately, change for the sake of change may have to occur. We need a couple more grinders on this team. One belongs at first base and one in CF. A starting pitcher with some ace material would be nice. Maybe a new second baseman or the old one who has grown up a little when he gets a kick in the ass from his superiors and some mild threats of playing in Pittsburgh when games loss their meaning in July.
I look forward to the Hot Stove league and seven days after the series when teams start to show their direction. As fans we know what lineups don't work for the Yankees. I hope Cashman has taken note. We can go from there and observe if any improvements have taken place. We'll know.
First of all, that wasn't Diane
Secondly, Roxanne's is a nice place
thought this might be the year the playoff streak was broken. Anytime you go into a season expecting rooks to carry as much of the load as the Yanks did with Hughes and IPK, you know there are likely to be growing pains. Certainly didn't expect the growing pains to develop into full-blown elephantiasis--but that's what we got. (It would be interesting to know what the team's record is in those 4 and 5 rotation slots originally slated for the kids. Ponson and Rassner each won a handful, but I bet the season record is .300-.400).
But I was all for the kids, and I was prepared going in that it could turn sour fast. Still, I was trying think of the last year the team performed so far below expectation, and I have to say that it's been at least 20 and maybe 25 years. I'm not talking about performing badly--I sat through 89-91. Those teams stunk. The early Showalter years showed steady improvement, every year, right up to the Torre era. So there was never any real disappointment in the guys' performance. Even if they lost in the end, you never felt let down.
I'll allow that losing Wang and Posada were huge blows, and A-Rod and Joba, Matsui and Damon all sat for stretches. With the kids not panning out as hoped, all the injuries must have made them feel like they were fighting an uphill battle the whole way. Still, I never saw any fight. This is a team some thought had a chance at scoring a 1000 runs. Hah! This team never hit. They had a good run in July, got a couple more bumps, and lay down.
Maybe this team needs an infusion of character. Sure, I know, there's Mo and Jeter and Posada and Damon and Matsui. But, clearly, those guys aren't having the influence they should. They need some solid younger guys--more Xavier Nadys. Guys who come to play every day, and play all 9 innings, wherever you put them.
There's plenty of talent on the team. Might be time to sacrifice some of it for character.
Kat, I agree with the Yankee veteran 110%. At least 1/2 of these guys quit over 2 weeks ago. Pathetic, just pathetic.
And despite Viper and others supporting AFraud and trying to insult those of us who have called him out, he is one of those guys who gave up prematurely - whether you enablers like it or not.
Only guys on this team with some heart are:
Abreu
Nady
Jeter
Damon
Pettite
Mo
Joba
Moose
Molina
This does not mean they all played well, just means they give a rats butt. Gotta get rid of the malcontents, and quitters ASAP.
If we miss the playoffs, so be it. Doesn't mean we gotta like it!
This team mailed it in some time ago...I am not sure if it is a reflection on the manager or the team itself? I tend to believe it is on the team as the manager doesn't step to the plate or toss a pitch. Injuries aside, there are only a couple of players on this team that actually seemed to give a crap and that is sad when you see the payroll attached to them.
Major overhaul next year or more of the same, I fear?
In order to overhaul, you need to let every contract go..
Yes Mussina and Pettite too
You want to get younger? Then don't bring veterans aboard and bring hungry players eager to prove themselves.
Find a Lester, Pedroia, Papelbon, Delcarmen, Ellsbury, Lowrie or Masterston in your system
Sometimes they are the unheralded player
Just ask Dan Uggla... or David Eckstein... or Bobby Jenks
Having young home grown players is indeed exciting, even if it means going cold turkey on free agents.
I'd say throw some kids in the big roles now.
Seriously, what do you have to lose?
You guys already lost a series to the f---ing Mariners?
Why not play kids at 1B, 2B, CF and RF and out of the pen and see what happens?
anyone else notice that when the Cardinals folded, Ant stopped posting?
That was my point Sully...there are kids in the system that could give similar production while learning and TRYING. In my disdain for their play i didn't elaborate.
There still would need to be an influx of pitching, as you can never have enough...Wang and Joba are a good start but they are the only one's I would trust in the rotation. And Joba isn't a given in the beginning of the year. So 2 pitchers are needed and would be a overhaul of 2/5ths of the rotation at least.
Sully: I don't disagree but could you have used some different names for your examples. You just placed some butter on a burn.
They don't need an overhaul.
They need to be smart in the off season and get players that can actually contribute.
Get pitchers who can pitch now and not have to have TJ surgery (Brackman and Sanchez).
Be smart in which pitching they're going to go after. Stop going after reclamation projects.
Stop getting guys like Kevin Brown, Jeff Weaver, Javier Vazquez, Chris Britton, Billy Traber, Jared Wright, Daryl Rasner, Jeff Karstens, Chase Wright, Ross Ohlendorf, Fritz Peterson, Mike Kekich (Whoops! This season has invoked some bad memories, sorry!).
Get a CF that can actually PLAY CF. That would be a novel idea, wouldn't it?
Yes, Kat, I do agree and have for some time now. They've led us, as fans, to believe they were going on a run to make the playoffs, but, as a long-time Yankees fan, I am disgusted and disappointed. Yes, they've had a lot of injuries,but the Yankees of prior years would have stepped up to the plate and gotten the job done anyway they could. This one step forward-two steps back and all the excuses that they have to go out there and win, is tiresome and has been for awhile. Don't get me wrong, I love the Yankees and will root for them win or lose, but it's like they were sleep-walking throughout most of the season. They owe the fans more than that.
For what it's worth. Brian Cashman is on record for saying that neither Hughes nor Kennedy will be guaranteed spots in next year's rotation. He admitted that handing them the spots was a mistake on his part and next time they'll have to earn their spot in the rotation rather than being handed it.
And GET RID OF THE PITCH COUNT AND INNINGS LIMIT GARBAGE!!!
Want to make a significant off season move that will help the organization for years to come?
Fire Nardi Contraras and hire Leo Mazzone.
Give him Jewels, mansions and yachts if they have to.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/column.aspx?sport=MLB&columnid=2&articleid=31052
An interesting read on Pouliot's pending FA pitcher's destinations...for what it's worth ;-)
I had that "missing playoffs" feeling after april /may, but figured in typical yankee fashion playoffs would be a last minute, late september push.
however, the cost of untimely hitting, double plays with 0 /1 outs, failure to advance runners, inability to bunt, misplays in field, poor pitching and injuries essentially were the ingredients to a miserable season.
where to go now? well, considering hughes and kennedy, the cure all prior to this season, won 0 games, they need to be re-evaluated and have to earn their spots. therefore, signing moose and pett to one yr, 2 year deals is a must. there are not simply other pitchers on the FA market that can fill those voids. My point is, i'd rather have moose and pett next year as 4th, 5th guys than ben sheets and say....kenny rodgers. and let me say this as well, yanks can throw 100 mill at sabbathia, but he aint coming to yanks. too many intangables in the NL and west coast for sabbathia to chase the money.
also, look to extend nady for 3-4 more years. abreu is scary in the outfield, and once he signs that 3 year deal with yanks, he will be even more scary...and foolish along the wall as we have seen so many times before. platoon matsui and damon in left, as each guy, when healthy, is a valuable piece to lineup. good riddence after 2009. find a CF, either cheaply throguh FA ( a la mike cameron) or within farm.
i'll help yanks pack giambis bags. if yanks resign him, i'll discard all my yankee belongings. he is a waste, and was a waste in yankee uniform. brought here to do good things, instead consumed 120 mill, steriod baggage, many K's and a spot in the lineup.
Yanks MUST sign texiera. A proven player in the field, and a switch hitting player that can bat 3rd (in place of abreu).
how about packaging kennedy and cabrea for a mid level OF?
2009
damon lf
jeter ss
texiera 1b
arod 3b
matsui dh
nady rf
posada c
cano 2b
wilkerson / patterson / anyone cf
wang
moose
pett
joba
hughes
lohse
Miguel,
With all due respect, I will puke if both Moose and Pettitte are brought back. One, maybe, both no way...
Tex is as much a given as CC at this point and I wouldn't be suprised to see him stay on the left coast...
I've read a couple articles where Damon and Matsui would like to play some 1st base next year, so take it for what its worth?
Nady will probably not be signing an extension with the Yankees. He's in the last year of his contract and his agent is Scott Boras, who wants his impending FA to test the waters.
Realist,
Keep that bucket close by for your bouts of puking because there's a good chance that both Moose and Pettitte will be back.
I don't believe the Yankees have a ghost of a chance to sign CC or Tex. I read the articles too. Tex. is with a great org. which has a proven system of how to play and play the game right, great coach, great farm system and money to spend. Where as our Yankees are in a state of confusion after this year of disappointments throughout the system, overated farm system, no pitching, guys who can't bunt but tons of money and we see how many wins money will get you especialy with the average age of our starting team in the 32+ zone Yikes.
CC is beating up the NL why come to AL East. Nothing like sunny California to live and play ball.
Think of Moose and Andy back in 2009, May God have mercy on us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can live with one but not two!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hughes, Kennedy (and Joba) are barely past their 22-23 birthdays.
It's NOT quite time to walk the plank yet. The team offensive strategy of being patient at the plate and getting the opposing starters pitch count up,. goes out the window when they are behind multiple runs by the 3rd inning.
A staff of Wang, Joba, (a lefty) (CC?) would be an improvement...
Then again so would have a Wang, Joba, Santana, (fiil in the blank) staff for this year. Hopefiully Carbera, Hughes, Kennedy can at sometime still justify that Santana non-trade.
I hope the NYC requires the muts to actually WIN something before annointing them the new kings of City Baseball.
I was at the game last night, sat a dozen rows behind Yankee dugout. My opinion shouldn't matter, but my wife, not a die hard baseball fan by any stretch, said "they're not even trying to compete, you can see it on their faces"... as they returned to the dugout off the field, or after the numerous weak ground outs.
Rarely, as a 52 year old Yankee fan, was I willing to blame the manager for the performance of the players, but it was an embarassing thing to watch (check the box score, the last 4 hitters in the Angels lineup hit under .200 and they looked like all-stars at the plate, on the bases, and overall hustle. 12 runs scored and I think 2 LOB (Yanks had 3 LOB in the first alone).
Ask, why with that line-up do the Angels continue to win? And this is a different lineup than the last time the Yanks came through. I keep asking, have no answers....
A manager should at least demand that his players compete or bench them, and then the GM trade them or find players who will compete. Don't mind losing, but not like that.... Give me a team to root for again.
If it were me, and obviously it's not, but if it were. I would take the last 18 games to take a long hard look at a couple of players:
1. Juan Miranda - He's in the 2nd year of a 4 year deal. The Yankees have to figure out if he's going to be a player for them at first or if they are going to go after Mark Teixeira. Call him up, let him play. Park Matsui on the bench to rest his knee for the remainder of the season while Jason DHs. Or bench Giambi since he has no future with this team...either way is fine with me. Miranda's hitting around .290 with limited power (12 HR).
2. Eric Duncan - I know I know, I'm the only person who thinks this guy isn't a complete bust. Look, let him come up and take some hacks, worst case scenario - the Yankees lose some games.
3. Francisco Cervelli - The Yankees loved him this spring, let him play now. Is he going to be less effective than Pudge?
Chip: Hopefuly, after last night, the Yankee management can make some moves with their AA and AAA players. So we get a look see against some AL East copmpetition next week. I understand three teams are in the playoffs. So, considerartion may be given to the minor league clubs fans.
Who was the veteran? Reveal your sources before Steinbrenner forces you to or banishes you to hide the secret that this team hasn't been trying for awhile. I think it's all A-Rod's fault. When your teammate has that much natural ability and talent but is content to collect his ridiculous paycheck after his 0-for-4, 2 Ks and 2 GIDPs, of course it sets a bad example for the rest of the naturally gifted and overpaid players in the clubhouse.
I have the real scoop on this season after talkin with several yankee players, seems they disliked the way the steinbrenners dismissed joe torre and decided to lay down this season in a show of support for torre and several have mentioned that they now have the real "clueless joe " running the team !
I bet it was Mussina. Given that he's the only one who's carrying his weight this season and his longtime status with the team. Plus he's enough of a complainer to say something like that, but in this case I agree with him.
Sully,
I have just been so busy ... but I am following the Yankees and the Cardinals. I will have a lot to say but not now.
A few comments ...
I am happy for Ankiel, 25 HR's and Ludwick (amazingly tough out) and Cliff Lee ... all guys I wanted on the Yanks ... as you all know ... Josh Hamilton too. (Can't hear any "Way to go Ant! cheers from the peanut gallery!)
But Cashman seems snakebit.
Hughes and Cano and Melky and Kennedy and Igawa and Pavano ... down ... I thought Hughes would throw a no hitter this year.
Giambi and Mussina up ... which none of us predicted.
Signing Posada was something I was against and as always I was attacked for that, and as usual proven right. A-Rod was a dud really.
Don't know what to say about the Cardinals ... a healthy Mulder and Carpenter would have put them in the Wild Card perhaps.
Who can say for sure? I can't ...
Anyway Sully, what do you think of Manny Ramirez throwing that 64 year old man to the ground? You must be so proud! So, so proud!
Care to share on that? Care to share what you will tell your twins about that when they are old enough to understand ...?
I thought that was cr@ppy for Manny to do and I didn't back him up on that
Sometimes the players I root for do cr@ppy things and you don't back them up for that
Like your cheating buddy Ankiel