On the Yankees beat

I won't weep for the Rays.

Our boys really stink right now, this is just painful to watch.

Probably too late for him to do anything to help the team but I'll ask again - Barry Bonds anyone?

Damon - CF
Jeter - SS
Bonds - DH
Alex - 3b
Giambi - 1b
Nady - LF
Abreu - RF
Cano - 2b
Pudge - C

if not Bonds, how about Shannon Stewart who was released yesterday by Toronto? He may not have a ton left in the tank, but he can't provide less production than Christian/Melky right?

WOW, I have to agree with Jim, this team looks effin ugly right now. I can see why people are bashing Cano lately, he hits a line drive single and then trots down to 1st like he just jacked a HR..BUST IT OUT OF THE BOX!!! Then there's Melk, he has a runner on 3rd with

This team is really starting to p!ss me off. Ive been very patient with this entire team, always defending their blunders. Ive said to myself, stay patient, stay patient.. Well Im done staying patient. This team has no heart, no passion and no desire. I didnt realize how uninspiring this team was until I saw the Halos busting their butts in every aspect of the game.

Im putting this entire team, from the Manager to Melky, on blast! I dont care if they lose every game from here until Sept 30th, all I want to see is some hustle, some fire! Im getting closer and closer to wanting the prima donnas benched. I dont care if the kids are ready, at least they'll bust their arshes.

If this keeps up, I suggest the following lineup come Sept 1st

LF - Damon/Carson
SS - Jeter/Betemit
3B - Arod/Betemit
2B - Cano/Betemit
DH - Betemit/Matt Carson
C - Molina/Pudge/Cervelli
1B - Miranda/Betemit
RF - Jackson/Carson
CF - Gardner/Christian

SP - Hughes
SP - Ian
SP - Moose
SP - Giese
SP - Coke

RP - Bring up Patterson and Melancon, not much to do there since the pen is full of young guys already.

Here's my thinking...

Abreu and Giambi will not be with the team next year, they are no longer in our future plans and are officially benched. Moose stays in since he's earned it. Andy gets shut down in Sept so that he comes back strong in 09.

Cano is really p!ssing me off, but he's got such a fragile mind that we need to coddle him. Lets put him in the cleanup spot and see if that fits him. If not, he gets benched and Betemit starts at 2nd.

Not much can be done with the C spot, but I would like to see Cervelli in some games this year.

Damon is our best AVG hitter, Arod is our best hitter overall and Jeter is the capt...all will be back next year, they have to stay in.

Melk is benched in favor of getting Gardner some more MLB AB's.

I want to see what Miranda can do since he's hitting well at AAA. Im done with Giambi and Sexson.

I want to see Betemit get more AB's

I want to see Matt Carson who has been hitting very well at AA + AAA.

I want to bring up Jackson to get some exposure once the AA season is over.

I want to see Ian and Phil log MLB innings no matter how hard they get hammered.

I want to see what LHP Phil Coke can do while starting.

Even though Ponson has pitched well, he's not in the long term plans so he gets benched in favor of young Geise.

Now I know there will be a ton of posts saying how stupid I am for suggesting such things. Believe me, I know this will NEVER happen due to many factors, but I can still dream cant I?

Is this an overreaction to a bad road trip..yes. Am I p!ssed off...Absolutely.

We need Oneil to come down from the booth and start kicking water coolers around to inspire this lackluster bunch of p@nsies!

""Where have you gone Paul O'neilio, our team turns its worthless eyes to you...woo whooo whooo""

Oops, sorry, in my blind rage I forgot about Nady. He should start in RF, Damon in CF and Jackson in LF. Then we can mix in Gardner and Carson since the rosters will expand on Sept 1st. If the Yanks tank for the rest of the month, I say we start Spring Training in Sept.

Chip - as bad as it is, I still dont want Bonds. I want to continue getting young guys PT.

Something to cheer me up....

Dellin Betances took the loss, but pitched very well. In 5 innings, the big righty from Brooklyn gave up 3 runs (1 earned) on 3 hits and 3 walks, while striking out 9. He also kept the ball on the ground when he wasn’t striking batters out, with 5 groundouts against 5 flyouts. He has given up just 6 earned runs in his last 29 1/3 innings, with 32 strikeouts against 9 walks in that span. He seems to have gotten himself into a nice groove, and hopefully he can keep this up.

Jesus Montero was 2 for 4, raising his average to .320.

Brandon Laird was 1 for 4.

Humberto Sanchez made his return from injury, pitching a scoreless inning, giving up 1 hit and striking out 1.

Jeff Marquez continued to rehab, giving up a run on 5 hits in 4 innings of work, and striking out 3.

Dru - um...wow.

I like the thought but I don't see it happening. At all.

Yankees are not going to play spring training lineups in September, no matter how hopeless the cause may be. Of the guys you suggested the three who could be up here are Melancon, Cervelli, and Austin Jackson - though I wouldn't expect much from any of them this year.

The thing about Melky is he shouldn't matter - for the New York Yankees to need him to be an offensive player is a disgrace. A lineup with 2 MVPs, 7 All-Stars, and the best player of the generation should be able to carry Melky Cabrera's bat.

Here's the problem with "bringing up the kids" so to speak.

Melancon, Coke, Jackson, and Carson are not on the 40-man roster, which means someone currently on the roster would have to be removed - and the Yanks would risk losing him entirely.

There's a pretty good chance Melancon gets promoted if they stay in the race, but it won't happen if the Yanks don't start winning games - and I mean right now.

Jackson is absolutely not ready yet. He's still at least a year away. And the Yanks are not going to want to start the clock on him a year early just to give him a few ABs in a league he's clearly not ready to play in yet.

Carson is not a prospect. I doubt they will want to bump someone for a guy who really has no future with the big club.

Coke is a borderline prospect. If he does make it to the bigs, it will be as a reliever most likely.

Chip - agreed on all fronts. The post was more for fantasy than reality, I just needed to vent, thanks for listening...

; )

U 2 Viper, thanks for playing along.

Viper - I forgot about the clock starting on Jackson.

I think most likely, down the stretch the Yankee rotation will be:

Andy
Moose
Joba
Hughes
Ponson/Pavano - yes Carl Pavano.

the only question is whether the Yankees put the diapers back on Joba and put him in the pen because arm soreness put the fear of god into Brian Cashman with this kid.

I think we've seen the last start of Ian Kennedy's Yankee career barring injury.

As for position players - it's not like there's anyone performing in the minors who is demanding that much attention.

Here's what I don't get about sitting Damon - they have an off day on Thursday. Whatever, what's done is done.

Chip,

I don't see the pen thing with Joba. If they don't trust his health enough to start him, they won't trust his health to put him in the pen either.

At least if he's starting, he has to pace himself. If he comes back to the pen, he's emptying the tank for one or two innings and throwing even harder.

I don't see the logic in bringing him back at all if they are worried about his shoulder.

I haven't given up on Kennedy yet. Maybe he gets traded over the offseason, but if he does - I hope it's because Sabathia signed with them and Kennedy becomes an expendable trade chip to address the offense and balance the lineup.

But I also want Kemp and I'd like to see Cano moved in return. It's a move that would make sense for both clubs.

fire kevin long ! what the heck, they fired Chambliss and Rick Down and the team offense wasn't this bad.

The whole "Fire Kevin Long" thing makes no sense. Kevin Long didn't forget how to coach - but the players, save Damon, are all having down years.

And the injuries don't help.

Too many Yankee fans want to point the finger at the coaches and managers and also believe becoming mini-Steinbrenners of the 80s is going to help this team win ballgames.

It's not. Age and injuries are the biggest factors in this team's regression.

Let Abreu and Giambi walk at the end of the year. Let Matsui and Damon walk at the end of 2009.

Replace these guys with youth and grinders who are much closer to their 30th birthday and you'll see this team's offense produce more consistently.

and sign manuel ramirez !!

Yeah, depending on what players close to 30 are brought in to fix this mess. (not this year, but in the future).

I can blame Girardi, the coaches, Cashman all that I want to, but it's the players that have to be accountable for this fiasco. Too much inconsistent hitting, too much inconsistent pitching, too sloppy on the base paths, whatever.

They're feeling the pressure big time now and they may not come out of this. I'm hoping that they do and give it at least a strong push going into September.

It's funny but we all say we should infuse a lot of youth on this team for the rest of the season, when in actuality it's the youth that is killing the team.

We can blame A-Rod for not hitting with RISP or Giambi for being hot and cold or Posada's injury and Pettitte's inconsistency, but the facts are that this team has been destroyed by the terrible performances of it's younger players such as Melky, Hughes, Kennedy, Cano and I think Joba's injury took the wind out of their sails even though it appears to be a short term thing.
I think the team, in it's mindset hoped to make the playoffs and felt good about going into a playoff series with Joba, Moose and Pettitte pitching for them and if one of them couldn't go, they probably felt good enough about Hughes' potential that they could go with him.

This is what growing pains are all about, it's a transition year and we do have something to look forward to if Posada, Matsui and Wang come back healthy next year and the kids have learned something from this year and begin to improve (meaning Hughes and Kennedy) and maybe Joba turns that corner and becomes a monster in the rotation.
The Yanks have too much invested in these kids to give up and trade them for spare parts now so I would let little cocky dweeb Kennedy come up and pitch, get rocked and learn some humility and hopefully another pitch that he can get over the plate.

Todays sucks, tomorrow should be better. Going all retro Steinbrenner right now would be the wrong thing to do, but the right FA's would help (CC).

Jim,

Good points and I agree with most of what you said. I just don't agree with a 200 million + team being in transition. They're are plenty of "stars" on this roster: A-Rod, Giambi, Jeter, Damon, Pettitte, Moose, along with so called rising stars Cano, Melky, Hughes, etc to be considered a transitional team. When Florida won those 2 WS titles and completely dismantled those teams, they were transitional. This Yankee team is not.
I expected more as did a lot of other Yankee fans.

The $200M+ payroll is a big part of the problem. Yankee fans think that high payrolls should translate to wins and championships but it doesn't.

The "All Star at every position" strategy doesn't work. Period.

Yet Yankee fans often believe that they should spend money like a drunken sailor to rectify the problem over the offseason.

The truth is - that's exactly the wrong thing to do.

Not saying the Yanks shouldn't spend money. They just should spend it wisely.

And signing Manny Ramirez, Mark Teixeira, and Adam Dunn is about the dumbest thing they could do to fix this mess.

Last night's game lasted a mere 2 hours 15 minutes. Disgraceful.

John G.,
Sure I agree with what you say about the payroll and the expectations but really, did most of us on here really expect the team to be in the World Series this year? I mean, the guys sucking up the payroll or a large portion of it (Damon, Giambi, Jeter, Pettitte, Moose, Abreu) are all on the downside of their careers and if the Yanks didn't win with them before, why should they suddenly start now? Going into last season, starting pitching was the issue. Going into this season, starting pitching was still a question mark and it still haunts this team. The team will have it's offensive slumps, all teams do, and injuries have hurt the offense badly (Matsui and Posada were bigger losses than most people think, not to mention Cano's disappearance), but they need to pitch consistently.
After the trades recently I thought the Yanks might have a shot at the playoffs but I still figured it would be an early exit from the playoffs and now it doesn't look like the team can make it and the payroll won't be a problem next year.

Viper,
Why do you disagree with signing Tex? I agree that signing the other two would not be too wise, ...but I think Tex is the perfect player for them (Am I sounding too much like Roy???) if we get him for the right contract.

boss,

I don't see them going after Teixeira because of Posada. If he can't be the everyday catcher next season, he'll have to play somewhere and Matsui will be the DH.

I think the bottom line is there is plenty of blame to go around.

The young guys: Kennedy, Hughes, Joba, Melky - did not perform the way we (and the Yankees) had anticipated.

The vets: Jeter, Andy, Alex, Giambi, Abreu - have had uneven seasons

Injuries: Matsui, Posada, Alex, Jeter, Damon, Hughes, Kennedy, Wang, Joba - have all missed significant time.

The farm: Key guys the Yankees were counting on to provide depth Al Horne, Jeff Marquez, Francisco Cervelli, Brett Gardner, Shelley Duncan, Jason Lane - have either been hurt or underperformed

The coaches: There have been some questionable moves by Girardi - probably a result of trying to do too much.

The GM: In retrospect he should have brought in a veteran to serve as a safety net if Kennedy and Hughes faltered. He addressed that by adding Sidney Ponson, but that was more luck than anything else. Cashman has done a good job addressing team needs on the fly though.

Viper - I'm not convinced Matsui will be an everyday player next season. He's in the last year of his contract and even as the DH this year his knee couldn't hold up. I think all the years of playing every-day has caught up to him and going into next season he should be looked at as a part time player...albeit an expensive one.

I didn't say that they should have an all star at every position; I said that they have enough stars to not be in transition. I also didn't say that having a 200 million + payroll means that they're a lock to win every year, but they should be in a race and playing good baseball. I don't call what they've been playing lately good baseball. Also, the 2 biggest "disappointments" shall we say are the young guys; melky and Cano. Melky can't hit and Cano has these periodic "lapses" shall we say like Sunday?
Also, Girardi sure picked a bad time to give Damon the night off when he's been the hottest hitter on the road trip. One of the old guys with a big paycheck.
I also don't want Ramirez and Adam Dunn Viper. That's not the answer. The answer is going out and getting pitching, guys that can throw good games most of the time and give your team a fighting chance, not a delusional numbnut like kennedy.
Just venting Man.

Just out of curiosity - if the Yankees could add Ryan Howard, would anyone want to do that?

John,

Never suggested that you said any of those things.

What I am suggesting that a lot of people feel the $200M+ payroll should translate to wins.

It doesn't. And the reason why they have a payroll that high is because of the "All Star at every position" strategy.

They have tried to fix all their problems that last several years by adding aging FAs and ignored the farm for several years, essentially patching holes with spackle instead of tearing down a wall and replacing it.

That lack of focus on the farm changed in 2005 when Cashman took control of it, but its going to take a few years before the farm develops where it should be.

Letting the FAs walk like Abreu and taking the draft picks is a great way to continue to re-invent in player development.

I hear the whole $200M payroll argument all the time and it's become such a cliche now. I bet the payroll next season is going to be in the $160M - $170M range.

Can't disagree with Jim A. It's the kids who are killing us. And Girardi, Thomson and Eiland are part of the 'kids' -- middle aged men perhaps but young and inexperienced in the positions they fill now.

The whole shooting match will be older (and wiser hopefully) each year as this scenario plays itself out. Then for a golden moment they'll be at their peak and maybe we'll decide they were a new 'dynasty' and be glad the team stuck with them.

Because we are pretty much stuck with them. This is the 'new direction', the 'youth movement' you wanted.

Now enjoy it.

I don't want him Chip. The Yanks have too many guys now that strikeout in key situations.

Sorry Viper. I got a little too defensive. My bad!

I do agree with you on the all star crap. it's not the answer and I also don't want the Yanks do go out and spend like they just found their dad's credit card laying around. I want them to be smart about it and get the right guy for the job.

Jim,

Yeah, I didn't expect this team to go and get a title. I hoped that they would and at least make a good showing, but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case.

Come on; be honest now: do you feel like kicking the TV in while you watch these guys? Even my dogs are growling at the TV watching these guys play. When the Yanks lost Sunday's game, one of the dogs grabbed her Red Sox doll and ripped it to pieces. I'm getting her a rally monkey for Christmas.

Chip, why exactly would the Phillies deal Ryan Howard?
Chip, how has the "Let's sign every big hitter we can!" strategy been working out?

Every year since 2002 I've read the NY Papers write the same article when the Yankees get eliminated...

"The Yankees had the stars but the (Angels/Marlins/Tigers/Indians) were the better TEAM!"

And every Yankee fan says "Yeah! We shouldn't go after the big star... we need to put a team together!"

And then everyone lusts after the next big star.

It's like a Mad Lib

How is Tex a better option than Giambi, Sheffield, A-Rod, Pudge, Abreu etc?

How is Manny better?

Do you REALLY want to sign those guys in their 30s?
Do you REALLY want the NY media, with whom Manny has ZERO good will in the bank, around him?

How many veterans do you want on the downside of their career?

I know the Yankee offense has sucked the last few days.
Guess what? You can win the whole World Series with an OK offense and a great pitching staff.

In my life I've seen a grand total of two World Series winners who had big bats and OK pitching... the 1987 Twins and the 2002 Angels.

And the Twins had two solid starters and two solid relievers... and the 2002 Angels had a lights out bullpen.

You can win a World Series with a revolving door of Curtis/Raines/Spencer/Ledee/Strawberry in left field.

You can win a World Series with Chuck Knoblauch blowing bubbles and throwing the ball into the seats.

Hell, Juan Encarnacion has been a starter on TWO World Series winners.

So has Craig Counsell.

I know this is a strange concept to hear, and hearing it from a Red Sox fan no doubt will make people angry... but indulge me:

Pitching.
Pitching

F---ING PITCHING!

You have A-Rod, the greatest hitter I have ever seen.
Boom! Put OK hitters around him and don't worry about it.

Any money, any trade and transaction that involves a big salary and does NOT involve a pitcher will directly contribute to the Yankees being at best a Division Series then out team.

If the goal is to sell T Shirts and steal headlines in December... then go after Manny and Tex.

If the goal is to turn the new Stadium into a house of champions, then focus your sights on Mr Sabathia.

Agreed completely, Sully.

The difference between winning and losing will always come down to pitching. Period.

Signing Sabathia would open the door to other moves throughout the roster because it makes some of the young arms on the farm expendable and can be used for trade chips to address the offense.

You hit Sully! Jim A has been barking about the pitching also and you win titles with pitching and defense. It's true in all sports. The Giants won the Super Bowl with Defense.

To reinforce that, I'm sure that you guys remember the 2001 series. The Yanks were out hit in that series, we hit around .200 i think (and that estimate may be generous) yet we almost won it. One bottom of the ninth from 4 in a row.

After that series, it was spend, Spend, SPEND!

What do we have to show for that?
4 division titles and one pennant.

Good point Viper.

Graziano's article on Girardi in the Star Ledger pretty balanced:

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/graziano/index.ssf/2008/08/assorted_thoughts_on_new_york.html

I was asking about Howard because people tend to value him higher than Adam Dunn while they're essentially the same player.

You ask people if they want Adam Dunn and it's a universal no - ask if they want Howard and it's more of a 50:50 split.

Sully - pitching is important but here's the thing - Toronto, for example, has a FANTASTIC pitching staff - probably best in the game. They're not in the hunt for anything, why? Because they can't hit. You need to have a balanced team. Right now the 2009 Yankees will be anything but balanced.

This winter the Yankees will lose Giambi and Abreu and who knows what Posada and Matsui will contribute - so that's the 3, 5, 6, and 7 hitters out of the opening day lineup. Leaving them with Alex and Nady as the only offensive threats in it. They need to replace those guys - you can't do that with Craig Counsell's and Juan Encarnacion's.

Francessa's ripping Girardi now on the FAN.

Mark Feinsand's blog in the Daily news is interesting today. Feinsand called out Girardi for that line up from last night. In fact, Girardi got pretty defensive about it.

Here's one guy's entry:

"Every game is more of a nightmare than the previous one. It's August 12th and we're still tinkering with the lineup. It would be one thing if we had great depth on the bench, but who is getting the nod?..Betamit, Sexson, ? Joe- forget the computer matchups and go with the veterans with the monster contracts. If you have no confidence in them, the off season is quickly approaching when you could release them. One can't help to get the feeling that the powers- to- be just don't know what the're doing."

There are more like this one.

I like this one:
"That was the most ridiculous of the 100's of lineups we've seen so far this season. Yes, Joe, every game is important so sitting our most productive hitter is the answer? I truly believe that this egomaniac control freak of a manager is out to make this HIS team and he's doing it by making the veterans on this team feel uncertain as to their status. When do you make veteran players like Damon and Giambi WONDER if they're in the lineup from day to day. Veteran players should come to the ballpark EXPECTING to be in the lineup. And since when is Justin Christian a better alternative than Johnny Damon????

I learned all I needed to learn about Girardi when I saw him crying when Farnsworthless was traded, while he barely said two sentences about the fact that Jorge Posada was lost for the season. I wish this was his contract year so that we could petition the Steinbrenners to dump him. And while we're at it, what the he!! do they know about running a team anyway. And one more thing, has anyone seen Brian Cashman or is he busy with Randy Levine???? This team is a like the Pequod and they have Captain Ahab at the helm in Joe Girardi."

And I thought that WE were bad.

John G,
Yes, I feel like throwing my TV out the window quite a bit these days and I'm beginning to think "Oh, come on man!" is the only thing my 8 year old son knows how to say when watching the Yanks these days. It is very frustrating but the last 12 years have been great for us fans and I can forgive the team a bad season....not sure I can hold out for two though as I am pretty spoiled now.

Couldn't agree with Sully more, it's all about the pitching and always will be.

Chip: Ryan Howard is Jason Giambi so if the Yanks wanted him in any way, they could just re-sign Giambi and actually have the better OBP and defense. Yep, Howard is one of the few 1B who make Giambi look like.....a 1B. I don't want Dunn either, no thanks.
I want the offense to go back to doing whatever it takes to get on base, taking pitches and wearing out opposing teams starters.

The only change I'd make to the coaching staff is I'd get rid of Bobby Meacham, he has been horrible this year. Other than that, if a guy is in the major leagues he shouldn't have to require the services of a batting instructor. Heck, half these guys have their own guys anyway. Just look at A-Rod, he's got Pete Fargin Rose for crying out loud!

He just ripped Cano for his lack of hustle and his brain freeze play on Sunday, and Melky cause he s u c k s!!!

As usual the blog entries are very good. There is one point that I believe is missing when we watch the games like last night and Sunday's lack of interest on Cano's part in the 9th inning. Can you imagine he hasn't watched a video of the single as of yesterday. I can't imagine no one approached him about it and he fails to show a little bit of interest.

Cashman developed this team based on superior hitting with a stacked lineup of veteran all stars and two good young players. This offensive team would bolster a starting rotation of veterans and young pitchers with Joba coming into the rotation toward the end to keep his pitch count down plus provide a fresh pitcher to the playoff mix. The bullpen was to be the real question point in the plan.

As we all know, the younger guys have failed miserably both with pitching and physically braking down. Joba is the only one who has shown some talent except his physical breakdown is his negative.

Injuries have been a major disappointment with Wang, Matsui, Posada, Arod missing a boat load of games. The offense which was intended to back up the SP was non existent. Its tough enough to hit in the big leagues but to hit with more pressure to produce makes it more difficult. Many of us have played on a weak team and found that offensively its was never enough to win. This is what has happened to the Yankees. They are laden with a disease of having tp produce under pressure often with a weak starting pitching. The offense just can't compete.

Also, we have learned that Cano, Kennedy and Melky have issues with maturity and ability to pick up the mental skills to be winners as of now. Arod needs a supporting cast to be a winner. His issue is pressure laden situations with an offense which has sputtered and expects him to carry the load. This will not happen.

Have we improved. Yes, throughout all this. I believe the Yankees have and will improve just by the trades for Nady/Marte. Pudge is toast. And what they have learned from this year. I would definetly get Hughes/Kennedy/Pavano back on the mound and pitch them until the bitter end of this season which will be October 1.

Jeter has not fared well since the hand was hit but Cabrera but his average is about 30 points below his lefetime average.This is a couple of hits a week. It seems more but its not. He still can play a very decent SS and .285 BA is still plenty good.

Abreu has two good years in him. This is the extent that I would go with him. CC and Tex would be nice FA's. I'd give A.Pettitte one more year at the back end of the rotation. The bullpen will have some changes.

Remember, its all about the pitching. LAA is all about the pitching with a decent hitting team, speed on the bases and good defense. We can be there, real quick.

SP, Wang, Joba, CC, Hughes and Pettitte.

This is not a bad rotation if it stays healthy. You can always find a silver lining. And I believe the Yankees have discoevred what players will be expendable from their ranks and there true value. Sometimes, you learn alot about the girl that you covet and find its time to say goodby when a better one comes around.

Are you guys listening to Francessa? If not, tune in.

Bobby Meacham is the idiot that sent Wang in when the Yanks were winning that game 900 - 0 and he got hurt.

Melky has a .290 on base percentage and a .300 or so slugging percentage. great numbers for an everyday player.

Chip,

Of course you need to have bats to score runs... but with a perrenial MVP in the heart of the Yankee line up and the likes of a Damon or a Nady and a Jeter in there as well... you can find ways to scratch 4 or 5 runs a game.

The Blue Jays with all the injuries and down years don't have that.

But if you look at the teams that have gone out and signed the big sluggers... how many of them have a parade in October.

Sure you have my boys... but they also went after Pedro, Schilling, Foulke, Beckett, Dice-K etc.

That one offensive threat plus pitching can do the trick.
Who else on the 2001 Diamondbacks struck fear in your heart other than Gonzo?

Having Gonzo allowed the Matt Williams and Reggie Sanders and Mark Graces of the world see more pitches... but it was all about make sure there are 3 or 4 runs on the board for Unit or Schilling.

Especially in a short series, neutralizing the other team's ace in game 1 and making sure a good arm is on the hill for games 2 and 3 goes a long way.

Sully:

It's one thing to have spartan offense when your top two pitchers are Hall of Famers in their primes (Schilling and Johnson in 2001, Pedro, Schilling, and Beckett in 04)

When the Yankees won titles they had Roger, Cone, Andy, Wells as their top four starters - so sure, if you have a lineup that can scratch out 3 or 4 runs you're going to win because those starters are just that good. Bottom line, that's not happening again anytime soon. Not until/unless Joba and Hughes develop the way they are supposed to. Yes a rotation of Sabathia, Hughes, Wang and Joba might turn out someday to be devestating, but for the next year who knows. And that's assuming the Yankees get Sabathia.

My point is, with the resources the Yankees have you don't have to pick one or the other. You don't have to say "well this winter we can either improve the starting pitching or the lineup" you can improve both.

You can have a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Joba, Hughes and Andy or Sheets or Lowe

and a pen with Brian Fuentes joining Marte, Rivera and the kids

and a bench with better options than Justin Christian or Wilson Betemit

and a lineup with Tex or Manny or Dunn.

Lowe?

Do you mean DEREK Lowe?

Oh man... (Sully snickers) Um... yeah! He'd be a great fit in New York.

(Sully holds back laughter and then straightens himself out.)

No seriously, Derek Lowe would be a great fit in the Yankee clubhouse and I am sure would not be a headcase at all and would fit well in the New York media spot light-

(unable to control himself, Sully falls on the ground laughing hysterically)

Go ahead... sign him.

(Sully literally screams with laughter)

DEREK LOWE!!!!

MANNY !! he takes pressure off ARod, will be good for at least 3 more years.

refresh,

Is Manny a pitcher?

If the Yankees dont make the postseason this year (and I know I'm not supposed to say this as a Red Sox fan... but at this writing it doesn't look good) it will be because of their arms and not their bats.

The best hitting team of the Terry Francona Red Sox years was the 2005 team... that was out of the playoffs faster than you can say Matt Clement.

The 2006 Yankees offensively were positively terrifying.
I don't see HBO or ESPN making a miniseries about THAT team anytime soon.

The only pressure Manny will relieve would be the headline writer at the Post from thinking "I can't think of a silly backpage today."

Imagine the first time Manny takes a leak in the new Monument Park.

"Manny Pees On Babe!"

Man, it might be worth seeing him a Yankee just for the headlines

Sully - you're absolutely wrong about the Yankees pitching being why they don't make the playoffs this year. If they don't make the playoffs it is because they have gotten spotty offensive production. Their pitching has actually been the only thing keeping them in the race thus far.

My seven moves:

1. trade Ian Kennedy and Melky Cabrera for David DeJesus. DeJesus is very gettable from KC and is an upgrade in CF - after next season he can move to LF when Jackson comes up.

2. Sign CC Sabathia

3. Trade Robinson Cano to the Dodgers for Clayton Kershaw and INF Chin-Ling Hu - the Dodgers need a 2b to replace Jeff Kent and Torre, Mattingly and Bowa love Cano. Hu is a great fielder with limited offensive potential.

4. Sign Orlando Hudson (if healthy) if he's not - sign Cesar Izturis. He's having a good season with St. Louis and is still a heck of a fielder.

5. Sign Manny Ramirez or Adam Dunn

6. Sign Brian Fuentes

7. Resign Pudge for a 1 year deal based on the health of Posada (if this happens we need to accept Matsui will be a part time player)

Lineup:
Damon - LF
Hudson - 2b
Jeter - SS
Alex - 3b
Dunn - 1b
Posada - DH
Nady - RF
DeJesus - CF
Pudge - C

Rotation:
Sabathia, Wang, Kershaw, Joba, Hughes

Pen:
RHP: Melancon, Veras, Robertson, Ramirez, Rivera
LHP: Marte, Fuentes

and don't give me the "no one is trading a young potential stud pitcher for a position player" Not true. The Rangers traded Edinson Volquez for Josh Hamilton and Hamilton had a lot more marks against him than Cano does. His 2007 was fantastic, but it was also injury plagued and Texas knew going in that he is/was one slip away from falling off the substance abuse cliff again.

You are right Chip...
It was the offense.

It had NOTHING to do with Wang being hurt and having Hughes and Kennedy combine for as many wins as Nelson Mendela.

That's only 60% of the proposed starting rotation.
And having Joba go down was no big deal

And the fact that people are bringing up Pavano's name in a context other than suing him for grand larceny is no big deal

Yeah... you are right... it's because of the bats.
Because as we all know, it's the big bats that win in the fall.

That's why the Texas Rangers have always been a dynasty

Go ahead... go after the big bats!

"Thank the good Lord for making Joe D. a Yankee and for not making Chip the GM".

Almost completely agree, Sully. I completely agree that CC or some other top of the line starter is the number one priority...and an absolute must if the Yankees are to have a shot at the title anytime soon. But they still need a first baseman, and I don't see many better than Tex available anytime soon. But if we can't get Tex, I agree that Dougie M will suffice.

That said, Jim A, are you still interested in the Yanks Orioles game Aug 23rd?

And also, I may have 2 tix for the Yanks/Red Sox game Aug 27th at the Stadium. Last time I offered up seats, only HYD took advantage of my free ticket offer. But really, I don't feel like driving up from va Beach to watch these clowns, so if anyone is interested let me know and we can work out logistical details.

Sully - The Yankees have gotten good pitching out of Mussina, Andy, even Ponson.

How many times has the offense been completely shut down? Glen Perkins, Matt Harrison, Jeremy Guthrie, Oliver Perez, Scott Feldman these are just a few of the pitchers who have won games against the Yankees while getting less than 3 runs of support against Yankee pitching and been made to look like Cy Young in the process.

Jim,

I know you're not a fan of Dunn - I'll throw you a bone, since I'm a nice guy.

Take your pick of one of these next guys if you want to replace him:

Eric Hinske
Casey Blake
Joe Crede
Juan Miranda

Hey I agree that pitching is more important to have than hitting when trying to win a ring, but like many things in life, its not so black and white. No doubt the reason the yanks are not in the race today is because of the injuries to Wang and Jorge and the ineffectiveness/injuries to Phil, IPK and now Joba. If the 5 starters from the beginning of the year were still in the rotation today, I think the Yanks would be in 1st place, or damn close to it.

With that said, signing Mark Teixeria is not like signing Sheff or Giambi. Both guys were past 30, and in Giambi's case, cheated by juicing their numbers up. Assuming testing is better today than it was then, Mark Tex is a 28 year old, switch hitting hitter that can hit for power and average. Also, unlike those two, he's is an excellent defender. How many runs would Mark have saved with his glove? Stopping balls hit in the hole, or helping his infielders out. See, you can have great pitching, but there's two sides to great pitching and one of them is the great fielding behind them. Mark solves 2 big ?'s going into the 09 season...a #3 hitter and a young slick fielding 1st baseman. If you sign Mark to a 6/7 year deal, he would only be 34/35 when the contract is ready to expire. Those are prime years for a player. I see no downside what so ever in signing Mark.

Now to the pitching side. I like CC, the guy is a horse, and he'll command a horse's load of money to get him, as it will to sign Tex. But there are other options aside from CC. Sheets, Burnett, Dempster, Garland, Harden, Oli Perez...obviously they all have ?'s attached to them, but once we get Wang back, we have a sick 1-2 with Wang and Joba.

Wang
Joba
Andy
Phil
????????

Would CC look nice in that rotation? HELL YEAH! That would be a monster rotation! Couldnt you also slide any of the previously mentioned starters into that last slot and have it still be a great rotation? yes

Now look at the 1st basemen =

Rich Aurilia SF
Ben Broussard TEX
Carlos Delgado * NYM
Nomar Garciaparra LAD
Jason Giambi * NYY
Wes Helms PHI
Kevin Millar BAL
Richie Sexson NYY
Mark Teixeira LAA
Frank Thomas OAK
Jim Thome CWS
Daryle Ward CHC

Who the hell is a long term 1st base solution out of that group? Only one.

The other thing is that the Yanks have drafted SP's with every high pick in their drafts. Now these kids may not be ready next year, but they should be ready in 2 years, so why not sign a Sheets or Burnett or Dempster or Garland to be the vet until the young bucks come up. Im my eyes we have 3 SP slots locked up for many years..Wang, Joba, Hughes, yes I still belive Phil will be at worst a solid #3 starter in this league. Im sure that one out of the 2 dozen power RHP's in the farm will step up to fill another spot.

Who exactly do the Yanks have to fill 1st base? Miranda? He's decent. Who else? Who will play 1st for the Yanks next year? The year after? The year after that?

There is nobody in the system today that will fill that role, there just isnt. The yanks at least have some options to fill out the #4 and #5 spots in the rotation.

Thats why...#1 offseason priority is.....Tex.

Anybody else see how the Twins and Angels EXECUTE TEAM FUNDAMENTALS to score runs and win games???

This Yankee team is not a TEAM. It's a bunch of individuals all doing there own thing (usually stupid things - see Melky and Cano for prime examples) and they don't have a clue about FUNDAMENTALS, TEAM PLAY and EXECUTION!!!

Too many superstars and not enough real ball players. I think the phrase I'm looking for is people who can GIT-R-DONE!!!!