On the Yankees beat

Not less meaningful, necessarily, Kat. More interesting, certainly.

This was from the prior thread:

DC

I didn't think that Onley's comments were as harsh as Wallace Mathews' which are in today's Newsday. I tend to think (and this is because I don't know) that Mathews either hates the Yanks with a passion, or he's a Yankee fan that's completely disgusted with this team.
This season's team is more "Jekyll and Hyde" than any Yankee team in the past few seasons. I can't figure them out. One day they play good baseball and the next day they remind me of the '62 Mets.
The next 2 series will tell a lot about whether or not they make a race out of it, or become (GULP) sellers at the trade deadline.

This is also:

If the Yanks want to make this a race, they need 3 out of 4 from Boston, at least.
Anything less will just not be good enough.
My one comment on Tampa Bay. They're playing great baseball right now (as all of you know), but let's see what happens if they get any significant injuries over the last few months. Yeah, they lost Pena and Kazmir, but there are other guys on that team who are having better seasons. If any of them go down for a significant period of time, who knows!

John G,

Yeah, I saw that piece, too. I thought his statement that the Yanks are headed home early "again"--or something to that effect--was completely unwarranted for a team that's made the postseason 14 years in a row, no matter how disappointed you are at first-round exits.

I agree on the Jekyll-Hyde team this season, and it's tough to figure. At times, I find myself wondering if we wouldn't be better off being sellers this year, stocking up on some position talent in the minors, and looking toward next year. But who knows? As last year showed, it's way too early to give up.

Looking at the weekend matchups, you would think the Yanks could take 3 of four, especially with the way the Sox have been playing lately. They should at least be able to go 2-2. I have little faith Rasner will beat Beckett tomorrow, but that's why they play 'em.

Agreed. That Beckett-Rasner match up was the one I figured the Yanks would lose. I think that a split would not be good enough, but if the Yanks get that and somehow manage to take the 2 games from TB, maybe they can make up ground against Pittsburg (make up game) and Toronto.

Viper, just wanted to reply to your comment on the last thread. This team is not older than the 96-00 Yankees - The only youth on those teams were Jeter, Posada, Mo, and Andy - now that's being replaced with Joba, Robertson, Veras, Melky/Gardner, Cano. I haven't done the math, but I would bet that the average age is about the same now as it was during those salad years.

The difference between this team and those teams is the ability to manufacture runs (or lack there of) But that is nothing new. The Yankees got away from that style of baseball after the 2001 WS when they brought in guys like Giambi and Raul Mondesi and started relying more on the long ball than situational hitting.

Chip,

You are incorrect, as usual! This team is OLD and Buster Olney has a cute butt, doesn't he? He must be right because no one could be that handsome and wrong?

We have been playoff bound for the last 13 years but to accomplish this feat we sold out our minor leagues especially from 2000 on. Now, we are paying the price for making the playoffs in this manner. I don't no if the Yankees can be sellers but if we do not win 4 or 6 we might as well and go on with the experiment. Making the remainder of the season tryout camp at Yankee Stadium. We'll be competitive with the likes of Posada and the cast of regulars just not playoff bound.

Now who do we sell Hawkins, Farnsworth, Abreu or Cabrera? Are there any takers for what we have and what is the return?

Don't know about that Chip,

Off the top of my head those teams had guys like Leyritz, Gerald Williams, Mendoza, Andy Fox, Homer Bush.

I think the biggest difference was that Steinbrenner replaced high-character team-oriented all-around ballplayers like O'Neill, Brosius and Martinez with the guys you mentioned like Giambi and Mondesi, who were far less multi-faceted, so to speak.

Larry,

I doubt there's a market for Latroy "Andy" Hawkins, and if there is I'd say take the rosin bag and run. As for Abreu, some folks seem to be clamoring for him to come back next year--suddenly there's some grumbling for Giambi to come back, too!--but if we're gonna sell, I'd sell big. Problem is, there aren't enough bats in the system to field a lineup for the rest of he season, so you'd have to get back some MLB-ready talent. And that's gonna be tough to get for a rent-a-singles-and-walks-guy.

Agree with you Larry. They need 4 out of 6 AT LEAST between Boston and Tampa Bay.
Wonder if TB will have a bit of a letdown this weekend after the Boston series. They get KC and maybe the Royals give them some fits.

13:33 was me.

If, on the other hand, the guys are inspired by last night's explosion and turn in a 5 or 6 win week, then perhaps we start talking about being buyers again.

Ron Mahay, the lefty setup guy who ignored the Yanks' efforts to sign him last off-season and signed with (gasp!) KC instead, is (surprise, surprise) on the block. Hope he didn't buy a house. He's 37, but he's got a 2.12 ERA and 1.28(?) WHIP. Everyone's going to be going for Fuentes, and he won't come cheap. Plus, he's free after this season (I'm pretty sure). He's no long term answer, but could Mahay be this season's alternative?

Chip,

But the core of the Yankees back then was younger - not necessarily the average age of the entire team.

Now, the core of this team is approaching their mid-to-late 30s (A-Rod, Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Mo, Matsui, Damon, etc).

I'd be curious to know the average age of the starting lineup back then as opposed to now, but I'm too lazy to do the research.

And don't leave out the starting rotation. That was probably the biggest difference of all between the current squad and those teams.

It still amazes me to think that this organization essentially ignored the draft and player development aspect of this team when they had so much success in that area in the mid-90s.

They certainly knew that the Jeters, Posadas, Pettittes, and Mos of the world were not going to be around forever so it's mind-boggling that they didn't at least have competent people replenishing the system.

Oh well, that's one of the biggest reasons why they stuck in a rut right now with no MLB-ready position players on the farm waiting for their opportunities to put a jolt into this team - especially next season with so many contracts coming off the books.

I can't believe you are using Raul Mondesi's name in the same sentence as Giambi's. One has 195 Homers for the Yanks and the 4th highest OBP in the history of the franchise. The other is eating fish tacos in Baha and has been since 2004.

Viper,
They had competent people--including Stick, who was largely (if not single-handedly responsible for building the dynasty in the first place--thank you Howie Spira!). The problem, as I understand it, was the Tampa-New York division, which split the FO and created a vacuum of organizational direction and leadership. That didn't end until Cash put his foot down with the Boss and took control.

Anonymous,

Don't know who your comment is directed at, but you're missing the point of the Giambi/Mondesi line (which I was merely repeating). It's not about numbers, it's about the type of player/character and who was responsible for bringing them to the team.

As for Giambi, you're right, he's done very well at the plate, for the most part, when he's been healthy. A similar guy would be Moose, who has won a ton of games for the Yanks over that same period. They have something else in common. No championships.

I meant to compare Moose to Giambi in terms of performance and the period they've been Yanks, not in terms of character, at all.

DC,

You and everyone on here is incorrect! My opinion is the only one that holds water on here, so the rest of you need just agree.

I still say that Igawa's contract is very tradeable and that is where the Yanks should start. I could easily see a straight up deal for Bedard. Well, maybe Bedard and a few blue chip prospects as this IS Kei Igawa we are speaking about. The Mariners would be foolish not to do this as Igawa and his VERY reasonable contract are a steal!

I heard the DN finally started to ban some trolls on their sports blogs. Not a bad idea, on the whole.

Preperation H isn't a bad idea on the hole either. Just ask Dr. Evil, my "manic" persona, as I am Bi Polar.

In case you guys are interested, MSNBC has a quiz on Yankee Stadium history in their sports section. Here's the link:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/25504905/

I took the quiz and got 73%. There are 15 questions and I got 11 of them correct.

Have fun with it for those of you who want to give it a try.

DC Yank,

Stick wasn't part of that draft team when Cashman became the GM in 1998.

There was indeed a split between the Tampa and NY and there were no competent people in charge of the draft from 1998 to 2004.

That's a long time to ignore an essential piece of an organization and the Yanks are really paying for that neglect now.

BTW, obviously, some other moron wrote the 13:19, 14:08, and 14:22 posts.

Who is this charlatan posting as myself at 14:37????

How dare you! You clearly aren't smug enough or self absorbed to portray myself! I clearly know everything and I am never wrong!

Case in point, I told you all that Mattingly would be the next Manager as "the writing is on the wall".

I told you that Igawa's contract was very tradeable, I am shocked he hasn't been moved yet?

I also told you an "Ace" wasn't necessary as 5 .500 pitchers will make you errrrrrrrrrr......500!

Viper,

Didn't realize he wasn't part of the draft team. That's interesting--and telling. But he was still part of the player evaluation process, right? I mean, I never read that the Boss shut him out completely. I was under the impression he was on the NY/Cash side of things and was still a go-to guy for the Boss on evals. The organization would have been stupid not to have consulted him consistently, although it would have been a typical Steinbrenner reaction to resent him for getting so much credit for compiling a championship team while he was banned, and to try to keep him out of the spotlight as much as possible. Look how that worked out.

Not too tough to tell when it's not you.

15:37 was me. Don't know how I did that. Sorry. I'm not the mole.

Moley, moley, moley...not supposed to look at the moley....

Sure it was a mistake baby! ;-)

DC Yank,

Perhaps you shot yourself in the foot with that last comment.

Oh well.

Anyways, Stick has been an adviser in the organization for some time now. He still gives his opinion when he’s asked. At least that’s what he said on M&MD a couple of weeks back.

But the difference is that he wasn't the guy running the drafts. He wasn't the guy who traveled all over the country to watch these kids play in person like Oppenheimer does now.

You can read all the scouting reports and all that stuff you want, but ultimately, the guy who makes the final decision and picks these kids should be scouting them pretty heavily.

That's kind of a young man's job now because an old-timer like Stick would probably not want to travel 200+ days a year to watch these kids at this stage in his life and would rather spend that time at home playing golf and watching his grand kids grow up.

Viper,

Liked what you said during the game yesterday about looking ahead to next year with all the young arms that are almost MLB ready. I don't think we'll see Melancon this year, but we'll get a look at Robertson and maybe Cox. I agree that Olendorf could be a keeper, but didn't have a place to get comfortable with all the mediocre 6-7th inning vets hanging on.

But, short of trades and injuries, Joe will have a ton of young talent to look at in the spring: Aceves, Brackman, Betances, Sanchez, Cox, Melancon, Robertson, this year's first 2 picks (though the HS kid won't be close), Hughes & IPK, McCutcheon, Marquez, Horne. Did I miss anyone?

But beyond Gardner, I don't see anyone who will be close to MLB ready among the position players. I've seen some hopeful bloggers saying Cervelli might ready to back up Posada in the near future, but he's at least 2 years away, I would think. Same for Austin Jackson, and Tabata is even further.

If Cash & co. decide to become sellers--and if I gambled, I'd bet that they will be--what are the pieces on the Bronx roster that might be sent packing for some near-MLB-ready everyday young talent? And is there anyone you would especially target? We don't need a lot on the ML level, especially if they're planning to go after Tex in the fall. But it sure wouldn't hurt to get a young stud or two on the bench and a young lefty set-up guy (hard to come by). I know, those are guys you trade for when you're in a pennant chase. But looking toward next year, it might not hurt to start thinking now. Especially seeing how well Cash did finding help for the bench and pen last off-season.

Anyone? (Besides the mole).

Oops. How do you mean "shot myself"?

Didn't mean to offend anyone, just pointing out that I'm not the troll, just made a mistake by typing the recipients' name in the box instead of mine.

If you meant I revealed some otherwise unrevealed ignorance about Yankee baseball, I don't believe in that. It's not a competition. I'm not trying to impress. Just looking to have a good blog conversation and, hopefully, learn a thing or two about my favorite team.

If you meant that I said something that is likely to upset the troll--well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. Happy Independence Day, Troll!

DC,

Happy Independence Day to you as well! You did wish it to the troll, which I obviously am? Or is it that you are trying to deflect blame from yourself?

I am about have a manic episode and can't find my Lithium!

Rays will fold when the season gets older.Can't stand the pressure of being in first.very tough on a young team.An injurey or two will ruin their confidence.After all star game ,pressure will be on them everyday.Lose by an error in a game or two will destroy them.

Curt,

You really should understand how to spell and use correct grammar before posting on a "big boy" blog. What you wrote is pathetic and unworthy of a 3rd grader.

1996 roster and ages this is 1st half roster avg age for 96 yanks was 29.7

C Joe Girardi 31 124 422 55 124 22 3 2 45 30 55 .294 .346 .374 13 4 11 5 11 3 1 82
1B *Tino Martinez 28 155 595 82 174 28 0 25 117 68 85 .292 .364 .466 2 1 18 2 1 5 4 108
2B Mariano Duncan 33 109 400 62 136 34 3 8 56 9 77 .340 .352 .500 4 3 10 1 2 5 1 112
3B *Wade Boggs 38 132 501 80 156 29 2 2 41 67 32 .311 .389 .389 1 2 10 0 1 5 7 98
SS Derek Jeter 22 157 582 104 183 25 6 10 78 48 102 .314 .370 .430 14 7 13 9 6 9 1 101
LF Gerald Williams 29 99 233 37 63 15 4 5 30 15 39 .270 .319 .433 7 8 7 4 1 5 2 88
CF #Bernie Williams 27 143 551 108 168 26 7 29 102 82 72 .305 .391 .535 17 4 15 0 1 7 8 131
RF *Paul O'Neill 33 150 546 89 165 35 1 19 91 102 76 .302 .411 .474 0 1 21 4 0 8 8 123
DH #Ruben Sierra 30 96 360 39 93 17 1 11 52 40 58 .258 .327 .403 1 3 10 0 0 7 11 83
Jim Leyritz 32 88 265 23 70 10 0 7 40 30 68 .264 .355 .381 2 0 11 9 2 3 3 86
*Darryl Strawberry 34 63 202 35 53 13 0 11 36 31 55 .262 .359 .490 6 5 3 1 0 3 5 112
#Tim Raines 36 59 201 45 57 10 0 9 33 34 29 .284 .383 .468 10 1 5 1 0 4 1 114
Cecil Fielder 32 53 200 30 52 8 0 13 37 24 48 .260 .342 .495 0 0 7 2 0 2 4 108
*Andy Fox 25 113 189 26 37 4 0 3 13 20 28 .196 .276 .265 11 3 2 1 9 0 0 38
Ruben Rivera 22 46 88 17 25 6 1 2 16 13 26 .284 .381 .443 6 2 1 2 1 2 0 107
*Mike Aldrete 35 32 68 11 17 5 0 3 12 9 15 .250 .338 .456 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 98
Charlie Hayes 31 20 67 7 19 3 0 2 13 1 12 .284 .294 .418 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 77
Matt Howard 28 35 54 9 11 1 0 1 9 2 8 .204 .228 .278 1 0 2 0 2 1 0 27
Luis Sojo 31 18 40 3 11 2 0 0 5 1 4 .275 .286 .325 0 0 2 0 2 1 0 54
Pat Kelly 28 13 21 4 3 0 0 0 2 2 9 .143 .217 .143 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 -6
Robert Eenhoorn 28 12 14 2 1 0 0 0 2 2 3 .071 .167 .071 0 0 0 0 1 2 0 -37
#Jorge Posada 24 8 14 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 6 .071 .133 .071 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 -46
*Dion James 33 6 12 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 2 .167 .231 .167 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 3
Tim McIntosh 31 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -100
*Matt Luke 25 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
---+-------------------+--+----+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+----+-----+-----+-----+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+----+
TOTAL team age - 30.0 162 5628 871 1621 293 28 162 830 632 909 .288 .360 .436 96 46 153 41 41 72 56 100
Rank among 14 AL teams 11 9 6 9 9 12 8 13 2 3 9 7 6
---+-------------------+--+----+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+----+-----+-----+-----+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+----+
Ag G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG SB CS GDP HBP SH SF IBB OPS+

* - bats left-handed, # - switch hits, ? - unknown, else - bats right-handed
OPS+ does not include pitcher's stats.

Team Pitching Glossary
Player Ag G ERA W L SV GS GF CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO BFP WP HBP BK IBB ERA+
---+-------------------+--+---+------+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+----+---+---+--+---+---+
SP *Andy Pettitte 24 35 3.87 21 8 0 34 1 2 0 221.0 229 105 95 23 72 162 929 6 3 1 2 129
SP *Jimmy Key 35 30 4.68 12 11 0 30 0 0 0 169.3 171 93 88 21 58 116 715 2 2 0 1 107
SP *Kenny Rogers 31 30 4.68 12 8 0 30 0 2 1 179.0 179 97 93 16 83 92 786 5 8 0 2 107
SP Dwight Gooden 31 29 5.01 11 7 0 29 0 1 1 170.7 169 101 95 19 88 126 756 9 9 1 4 100
SP David Cone 33 11 2.88 7 2 0 11 0 1 0 72.0 50 25 23 3 34 71 295 4 2 1 0 174
SP Ramiro Mendoza 24 12 6.79 4 5 0 11 0 0 0 53.0 80 43 40 5 10 34 249 2 4 1 1 74
SP Scott Kamieniecki 32 7 11.12 1 2 0 5 0 0 0 22.7 36 30 28 6 19 15 120 1 2 0 1 45

CL John Wetteland 29 62 2.83 2 3 43 0 58 0 0 63.7 54 23 20 9 21 69 265 1 0 0 4 177
RP Jeff Nelson 29 73 4.36 4 4 2 0 27 0 0 74.3 75 38 36 6 36 91 328 4 2 0 1 115
RP Mariano Rivera 26 61 2.09 8 3 5 0 14 0 0 107.7 73 25 25 1 34 130 425 1 2 0 3 239
RP Bob Wickman 27 58 4.67 4 1 0 0 14 0 0 79.0 94 41 41 7 34 61 358 3 5 0 1 107
RP *Dale Polley 30 32 7.89 1 3 0 0 9 0 0 21.7 23 20 19 5 11 14 103 0 3 0 1 63

Brian Boehringer 27 15 5.44 2 4 0 3 1 0 0 46.3 46 28 28 6 21 37 205 1 1 0 2 92
Jim Mecir 26 26 5.13 1 1 0 0 10 0 0 40.3 42 24 23 6 23 38 185 6 0 0 4 97
Mark Hutton 26 12 5.04 0 2 0 2 5 0 0 30.3 32 19 17 3 18 25 140 0 1 0 1 99
Dave Pavlas 33 16 2.35 0 0 1 0 8 0 0 23.0 23 7 6 0 7 18 97 3 1 0 2 213
Dave Weathers 26 11 9.35 0 2 0 4 1 0 0 17.3 23 19 18 1 14 13 90 1 2 0 1 53
*Steve Howe 38 25 6.35 0 1 1 0 4 0 0 17.0 19 12 12 1 6 5 76 2 1 1 3 79
Wally Whitehurst 32 2 6.75 1 1 0 2 0 0 0 8.0 11 6 6 1 2 1 36 0 0 0 0 74
Ricky Bones 27 4 14.14 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 7.0 14 11 11 2 6 4 41 0 1 0 0 35
*Billy Brewer 28 4 9.53 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 5.7 7 6 6 0 8 8 32 0 0 0 0 52
*Graeme Lloyd 29 13 17.47 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 5.7 12 11 11 1 5 6 35 4 0 0 1 29
*Paul Gibson 36 4 6.23 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 4.3 6 3 3 1 0 3 19 0 0 0 0 80
*Mike Aldrete 35 1 0.00 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0 0
---+-------------------+--+---+------+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+----+---+---+--+---+---+