On the Yankees beat

Washburn or somebody else, the Yankees have to do better than Ponson and Rasner. That was painfully obvious last night.

I had hoped for 2 out of three from the Red Sox's to consider this club contenders as opposed to pretenders but it obvious that Andy, Joba and Moose are the three pitchers who we can depend upon. There are no lights out in those three but dependable. As far as Rasner, we all know that I believe he should not be in Pinstripes. Yes, its a rough statement but him and Ponson should be replaced ASAP. Washburn and Bannister or Kennedy/Wang eventually. We had a great oppt. to sweep with a better backend of the rotation.

All things considered with pitching and injuries plus a young bullpen the boys and Girardi have something to be proud of at this point in the season with more to come, hopefully.

Larry - Joba is lights out! Still think he should be inning 8 only Sully?

I guess asking for a center fielder who can hit is asking for too much, in addition to pitching help?

Jon K...
I am eating SERIOUS crow about Joba.

I never doubted he would be a good starter, but what stuns me and what makes the move work is Ramirez, Veras and even to a lesser degree Farnsworth have been so good that it makes the move work

What can I say?
I was wrong

Also once Wang went down, the agrument for Joba in the pen kind of went away because... well... they need 5 starters

But hey, I'm man enough to admit when I was wrong

Jon K: Joba is a very good pitcher but based on his body of work which is small. I refrain from the lights out tag.

Can we just get Joba to bean Youkilis and get it over with already? lol.....christ, smack him in his bald head and lets move on. Were going to get another brawl soon, haha.

Sully,

Glad to see you are man enough to admit your mistake about Joba - I'm not sure I would have been.

Just got to listen to Russo put the Pirate deal in perspective as he kills Pittsburgh for being cheap: The Yankees got the best situational lefty/potential closer in baseball for two guys who did nothing in their stints in the majors, a 19-year old headcase with emotional problems dealing with the pressure at AA and McCutchen who is at BEST a 3rd starter on a BAD team.

Sounds like the Washburn thing is at a stand-still. I don't take what Cashman tells Buster Olney seriously since Cash is not going to show Buster his cards. Like I said, if the Yankees aren't giving up anything for him...why not?

Chip ,

Well today it was confirmed from BC that the Injury BS about Coke and his Labreaum (excuse my spelling ) was lies.

Bomber:

I saw where Cashman said in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that he had almost immediate second thoughts about the trade because of what he had to give up. You'll have to excuse me if I call that BS on Cash's part. I know Brian has to say what a great job Pittsburgh did in the deal (I mean it isn't good business for him to say he fleeced another team in a trade), but the bottom line is that there isn't a single GM around the game who thinks the Yankees gave up NEARLY enough in this trade. One went so far as to say that a day ago he couldn't have gotten Nady for that package much less Nady AND Marte. I'm not terribly upset about McCutchen going. Yes he's probably the best starter the Yankees have at AAA right now, but at his best he's rated as a 4th or 5th on a fair team, on a championship team he's rated as an extra arm. And the Yankees are trying to be a championship team. Just like I said about the Yankees having reliever depth that allows them to deal Ohlendorf, they have RH pitchers in spades...

Here's the thing, there will be people who will say "oh look at the Yankees buying players again" but the other team has to WANT to do the trade. It's not like a video game where the Yankees can just go and pick up the players they want. So if Yankee haters don't like that NY brought in two guys who (incidentally) aren't making a ton of money for low level prospects - well blame the Pirates for doing the deal or blame your team for not trading for the guys in the first place. Neither of these guys makes more than 6 million - that's plenty affordable.

Hi folks, I'm a read often/write rarely kind of blogger. But Washburn? For 10 mil next year? Kind of clogs the rotation for upcoming arms. Given that we're going to have:
Wang
Joba
Petitte - one year deal, wants to pitch at the new stadium
Mussina - earned another one year deal if he'll take it-IMHO
one spot left - I would leave open for Huges or Kennedy or another kid who blows them away in spring.

As for this year, is Washburn that big an upgrade? I know he's pitching well right now, but he is pitching over his head right now. He is not a lights out kind of pitcher. He is a middle of the road average guy. The 10 mil for next year bothers me. Will he get a rotation spot just because they owe him so much money? Help me out bloggers,why do we need this guy?

The Yanks can probably sit back and wait for Wang to get healthy. They can also give Kennedy another shot since he's doing well at AAA. They don't have to pull the trigger on Washburn unless the asking price is what the Yanks are willing to pay.

Your right Chip.

What people seems to forget is this .....

This deal ALLOWS THE team to rid themselves of high end contracts and will actually save the team some cash in the future.

Jon K The team after Hughes and Kennedy's performance will not just hand them a rotation spot they have to Earn it. remember they are 0-7 combined.

Here's my thinking on Washburn:

1. I'm not sold on bringing Mussina back. Yes, he has been great this year. But I think that is because he's pitching against his scouting report right now. The book on him the last two years has been "mid 80s fast ball that he tries to force; works away" and now he's taking stuff off his fast ball and working inside more...I think when the scouting report catches up he will revert to what we saw last year.

2. At 1 year & 10 mil if the Yankees wanted to trade him they would find a team willing to take him even if it means eating some of the contract themselves.

3. The Yankees would not be giving up anything for him.

4. He doesn't have to be a lights out pitcher - just better than Rasner and Ponson - which he is.

john k is not me - Ian is looking good so far - but I would not hold off trading for washburn because of Ian and Phil - you can't have too many arms as this year has proven in spades - clogging up the rotation is good, not bad.

Seattle can keep Jarrod Washburn. I think there's a good chance that he would become very Moose-esque circa 2007 if Cashman acquired him.

Is Washburn better than Ponson?

Yeah, marginally. But the Yanks got Ponson for the league minimum - not $14M+ that Washburn would cost them and a spot on next year's team.

I do find it a bit strange that as desperate as teams are for pitching these days with the trade deadline just a few days away - no other contender outside of the Yankees have called Seattle and shown any interest in Washburn whatsoever.

I thought it would be interesting to see what Mariners' fans think of Washburn since they are the guys watching him pitch every 5 days.

The consensus was overwhelming - they would be thrilled to get rid of Washburn - even at the cost of taking Igawa - and they know full well just how bad Igawa has been in the majors.

Maybe it's just me, but I find all this red flags a very bad sign.

Cashman can afford to play high stakes poker with Seattle and stand firm on their offer of a so-so prospect in return because they know damn well that no other team is going to assume the cost of Washburn's contract and they are desperate to blow that team up.

Sooner or later, Seattle will fold and give him up. This is their one shot to do it.

I'm just hoping a deal doesn't get done for one reason or another because acquiring him would be a big mistake.

So, since no one is posting here's a Manny trade scenario:

Mariners get: Jon Niese, Aaron Heilman, Nick Evans

Mets get: JJ Putz, Manny Ramirez

Red Sox get: Raul Ibanez, Pedro Feliciano, Billy Wagner

As for the whys:

Mariners wind up with a really good pitching prospect in Niese, they probably move Heilman into the rotation and Evans is a decent outfield prospect - though far from spectacular. Given what the Pirates got for Nady and Marte - this seems fair.

Red Sox remove a distraction, get a professional hitter who can take his position and also get a guy in Wagner who would be a great bridge to Papsmear and a second situational lefty

Mets get a closer to replace Wagner and can now not worry about what's going to happen when gravity takes over and Fernando Tatis comes back to earth.

NOTE: Before Viper yells at me...I don't believe Manny will be traded, but this goes on the theory that he could be.

Viper - No other contender is running Darrell Rasner and Sidney Ponson out for 40% of their rotation's starts.

Find me a contender that would consider Washburn a better option than what they have? Outside of the Yankees there is none and for the same reason I believe the Mets need an outfielder I believe the Yankees need a starter - you can only roll the dice with Rasner and Ponson for so long before it bites the team in the end.

Chip,

Washburn isn't the only pitching option on the market or the farm.

I'm telling you, trading for him would be a huge mistake. He's only a marginal upgrade over Ponson or Rasner.

A couple of other notes:

Phil Coke (who was originally included in the Nady/Marte deal) is nearing the innings limit the Yankees had for him so they are moving him to AAA to work out of the pen.

A report in the KC Star has the Yankees potentially offering the Royals Melky and a minor league pitcher for Brian Bannister and either John Buck or Miguel Olivo

Viper:

If he costs Igawa he can't be that big a mistake. It's like when the Yankees traded Kenny Rogers for Scott Brosius - even if Brosius didn't do anything getting rid of Rogers was worth it.

As for the kids...ok Aceves has been good, Kennedy has been good. But if I can get a playoff tested guy to roll with down the stretch - I take my chances.

Chip,

Igawa is not even on the 40-man roster anymore - which means the Yanks are never going to let him make another start for thebig club.

He's going to be buried on the Scranton roster never to be seen again.

Besides, Seattle is not interested in getting Igawa at all.

Hey, I want to get rid of him as much as the next guy, but not at the cost of making a big mistake.

I'll take my chances with Kennedy, Aceves, or Hughes in another month.

At least those guys can be easily moved if they don't work out.

Loved getting 2 out of 3 against the Bosox. Should've been a sweep, but Ponson stinks. That is why Washburn would be a good pick-up. We need another lefty in the rotation and he is more than marginally better than Rasner and Ponson.

Plus,as Chipwich so nicely points out, Washburn is playoff tested and from what I am hearing, is healthy and has figured out what problems he had in the beginning of the season. Molina has given him a vote of confidence and he knows his pitchers. Think we could give up Giese or Rasner (maybe Marquez) and make the deal.
We need another bulldog in the rotation, and he would be a good # 5 starter next year, or we could trade him for some prospects.

Make the Deal, Cash! Lets Go Yankees! Only 3 more to go to the promised land!

Chip, you're absolutely crazy. You think the Sux would ever consider moving Manny in a deal that brings them back only Ibanez as a bat? The Mets get Putz & Ramirez. Mets' fans don't have dreams that good.

Also, your theory on Mussina is ridiculous. Hank was right, he need to pitch more like Moyer, and Moyer has kept that act going for years. With all the information available, it amuses me that you think these million dollars business don't have up to date information like scouting reports minutes after it happens. Hell, I could scout the new "Moose" using only u-tube. Are you done with the crazy posts for the day?

I read that Washburn has worked very hard on a changeup that he only now feels comfortable with. The only reason Ponson appears decent is because the Yanks are giving him 8.5 runs a game. I picked this tidbit up in an article somewhere (can't remember unfortunately) but here's the most alarming stat on Ponson last night: Boston didn't swing and miss and one of his pitches for the four miserable innings he stuck around. Ponson is better than Igawa, and that's about it.

Speaking of swinging and missing, it's worth noting that Washburn threw 101 pitches and TOR hitters swung and missed just twice.

Here's the breakdown:

-67% strikes (68/101)
-2 swings and misses
-7 grounders on 27 balls in play

Sounds like he was more lucky than good on Sunday.

Nothing wrong with pitching to contact - but I'd much prefer to see 7 fly balls and 20 grounders in play rather than vise versa.

Michaelz:

Here is Mussina's game log for this season. Find me the good team he has beaten more than once?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=2557

you want to say the Twins, ok, I would give you that except Mussina ALWAYS beats the twins. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, Yankees wouldn't be where they are without him. But the point is, right now he is fooling teams because he isn't pitching the way these guys are used to seeing him pitch.

This is not a new phenomenon - when Mariano Rivera was called up the White Sox thought he was a sinker, changeup guy - they (and the rest of the league) adjusted and that's part of the reason his career as a starter was a short one.

Look, you may be right that Mussina could go on and have another 5 top level years like Moyer has - but I'm not interested in giving him another 2 years and $22 million (the contract he's currently finishing out) and finding out next season that the league has caught up.

We agree Chip on Moose. And we haven't agreed on much lately.

I have all the respect in the world for Moose because of how he's pitched this season, but I would not bring him back next year.

Wait a second Chip, I never said anything about "Moose having another 5 top level years." Nobody has bashed Moose more than me, and I think the sooner we can upgrade him, the better. I took exception to your assertion that he has somehow fooled major league teams for half a season waiting for information to catch up on the new "moose". That is just plain silly. Players actually can go back in the clubhouse and watch how a pitcher threw to him just a few innings ago. Each team sends advance scouts throughout the season to send information back on a starter before a team ever gets to town. These are multi-million dollar businesses; when such detailed analysis is available on baseball tonight and u-tube, you can bet the teams have noticed what the "new moose" is doing.

Viper, add me to the list as well. I'd rather bring in CC or Sheets as our big signing (if one is available), and look to fill the other spots with pitchers from our minor league stockpile. I do think Andy will pitch again, with Joba, Wang, and the free agent signing (if it happens) let Hughes, Kennedy and whoever else battle it out for the last spot (make 'em earn it this time). The nice thing about CC. going to Milwaukee is that it's a virtual certainty they will not bring both of them back...

Moose wins 19-20 games this year, he will be back. He has learned to pitch like Maddux, since he has Maddux-type stuff now. No more 90-92 mph heaters. It is called survival. He could do this for another 2 years with no problem, but if something comes along better - Yanks better take it.

Still think Washburn brings veteran presence to the rotation. Might be good for next year too. We learned our lesson about cramming the rotation with kids too soon.

Lets Go Yankees! Go get 'em, Moose!

Nady goes yard tonight.

RANT ALERT RANT ALERT RANT ALERT

Alright, I know that as a Yankee fan this is going to come off as me just bad mouthing Boston for the heck of it, but here we go.

I just read Peter Gammons' article on ESPN.com where he tears into Manny for being selfish, childish, being all about the money, "Manny being Manny means Manny wanting money. He doesn't want to wait for the Red Sox to exercise the right he gave them for the first $168M, the right to decide at the end of the season whether to pick up his option for 2009 at $20M. The Red Sox fulfilled their end of the contract; now he doesn't want to fulfill his obligation, the same way he watched his teammates fade in 2006.

He knows that this winter -- when he's 36, turning 37 next May -- he has a better chance of scoring the four-year, $100M deal he has told teammates he can get than he will after the 2010 season, when he'll be 38 turning 39. He doesn't want to have to sweat for two years at a measly $20M, and everyone knows that he couldn't care less how he gets that $100M, even if it means sitting out and leaving "family" fighting it out without him."

Gammons is right in everything he has said. Here's the problem kids - Gammons has NO RIGHT to say it. Not after he and every other sycophant and apologist for RSN have spent the last 10 years smiling for the cameras and chalking up things like this to Manny being Manny.

If either the franchise, media or fans had held Manny to some accountability earlier on in his Boston career then they wouldn't be facing thise issues now.

Guys like Gammons gave Manny this rope - now they want to hang him with it. It's like letting a stray dog loose on your yard and then complaining with the mutt poops on it.

Ditto Chip. Gammons should keep his pie-hole closed as one of Manny's main enablers over there in RS Nation. I say flush 'em all down the toilet. Have no sympathy for the Bosox. They allowed this monster to be created, now only they must destroy it - while trying to not destroy their team. Good luck! We have other things to take care of......like winning the division!

Lets Go Yankees! Time to catch that train wreck and pass it.