Talking in Tampa; around NYC
The Yankees' brass are meeting in Tampa today, as Ken Davidoff wrote. The topic, of course, is what the Yankees' needs are at the trade deadline and how they might be able to address those needs. Will any major moves be made? Who knows? I'd expect SOME type of move by the time August begins, but not sure if it will qualify as major. While one could say the fact they're 6-0 since the break shows they don't need much, I look at it in a different way. That shows this team is capable of playing well and truly contending down the stretch. It's showing it's worth putting some chips on the table to give this team a better chance at making the playoffs and at 2008 postseason success.
In other news, some players have been busy around the city in addition to winning all these games. Joba Chamberlain appeared at some Dunkin Donuts Tuesday, then visited a fire station in New York. Always nice to see people supporting the FDNY.
I stopped by the opening of the new 24 Hour Fitness Derek Jeter club, which had an unveiling on Tuesday. It's across from Madison Square Park at 25th St. and Fifth Ave. in Manhattan, so if you happen to work or live there, it's gorgeous and open 24 hours a day. Full disclosure, I used to work out at 24 Hour Fitness in Texas, so I was excited to see them coming here. That's the first one opening, but there's another planned in SoHo, one on E. 53rd St. and one in the Bronx.
Jeter is pretty excited about the clubs, and said: "Why 24 Hour Fitness? They're the best at what they do. ... Plus when you think New York, you think about a 24-hour city, the city that never sleeps, so I think it's a perfect fit."
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Comments (42)
the team learned from last season that they cannot stand pat. the additions last season was Clemens , Joba. and yo usaw how far that went, Bats is need as well as fresh legs.
I find it pleasing that while Iwas laughed off at season begining about the possibilites of Bay or Nady being traded that they are now big talk.
It just goes to show that in this business one can never assume
trade anybody but a young 2B named Canooe !
Please write to Yankees.com and MLB.com and ask for Less Spending in Baseball for All Teams. Lets keep Americas Pasttime as it was intended, Competitive and Fair for All. God Bless America.
I'd think very hard about trading for Matt Kemp - who I think is going to be a star in this league.
Think about it - by 2010, the Yanks could potentially have an outfield occupied by Matt Kemp and Austin Jackson for many years to come.
Sounds like a pretty good idea to me. I like Cano, but Second Basemen can be replaced easier than outfielders.
All that said, I don't see this deal happening. But that is the kind of move that could pay off big-time for the Yanks in the long run.
Viper -
Explain to me how offensive 2nd Baseman are easier to replace than offensive outfielders?
McCarthy:
Here are the list of guys who are FA's this winter at 2nd:
Mark Ellis
Orlando Hudson
To Iguchi
Not to mention SS who could be moved to 2nd:
Furcal
Felipe Lopez
Compare that to the list of OF:
Ibanez
Abreu
Dunn
Moises Alou
Pat Burrell
Jay Payton
I like the second basemen a ton more than the OF's
Sully, no one in MLB cares how many fans write to them about the spending habits of the old boy millionaire network. In case you have forgotten, this is a free market economy that we live in, and as such, participants are free to spend whatever they want to help their business grow. Waste your time if you want, but until fans stop going to the games en masse, they really don't care what a few traditional extremists think.
I have mixed feelings on Cano. I don't think he'll ever learn the strike zone which means he's prone to slumps. That said, he is capable of carrying this team for weeks at a time, and he has really improved defensively at second base. It also matters to me that we developed him; I'm tired of trying to win with a collection of other's teams talent. Lowe is nothing more than a fourth starter and a short term solution, so that does nothing for me in this deal. I see him as only a marginal upgrade over what we have at this point; he certainly is not the difference maker that puts us over the top. Hopefully the team does not do this; if we want to trade Cano, you should do it when his stock is up, not when he's hitting .269. Kemp and Lowe are not enough...
McCarthy,
Look at the market.
The best choices for the Yanks right now for the outfield are guys like Jason Bay (30) and Matt Holliday (28), but it would take a king's ransom to get either of them.
The Yanks will be losing Abreu, Damon, and Matsui within the next 18 months so they desperately need a couple of good young outfielders to succeed them.
Matt Kemp (24) would fit that mold perfectly and so would Jackson (who will be 23 yrs old in 2010).
Kemp is a lot like a young right-handed Grady Sizemore and I don't know any Yankee fan who wouldn't want him on this team.
Trading Cano would hurt - no question about it.
But Cano was also having a terrible season through 90 games and often doesn't show up for the first two months of the season.
If the Yanks could find a good defensive Second Baseman on the market who puts the bat on the ball (ala Orlando Hudson of ARI), I'd very much pull the trigger on a Cano-Kemp deal.
Chip -
Really?
Not a single one of those 2nd baseman would come close to replacing Cano's offensive numbers.
Burrell, Ibanez, Dunn and Abreu would at least have a very good chance at hitting in over 100 RBI's.
You seriously like Ellis, Hudson and Iguchi a "TON" more than those OF's???
2009 OF Free Agents
Left fielders
-----------------
Moises Alou (42)
Garret Anderson (37) - $14MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Milton Bradley (31)
Emil Brown (34)
Pat Burrell (32)
Adam Dunn (29)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Luis Gonzalez (41)
Raul Ibanez (37)
Kevin Mench (31)
Jason Michaels (33) - $2.6MM club option for '09
Craig Monroe (32)
Jay Payton (36)
Wily Mo Pena (27) - $5MM club option or $2MM player option for '09
Manny Ramirez (37) - $20MM club option for '09
Juan Rivera (30)
Center fielders
-------------------------
Rocco Baldelli (27)
Mike Cameron (36) - $10MM club option for '09 with a $750K buyout
Jim Edmonds (39)
Mark Kotsay (33)
Corey Patterson (29)
Right fielders
---------------------
Bobby Abreu (35)
Casey Blake (35)
Cliff Floyd (36) - $2.75MM club option for '09 with a $0.25MM buyout
Brian Giles (38) - $9MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Ken Griffey Jr. (39) - $16.5MM club option for '09 with a $4MM buyout
Vladimir Guerrero (33) - $15MM club option for '09 with a $3MM buyout
Bobby Kielty (32)
Brad Wilkerson (32)
Just as a minor quibble with Kat: the New York City Fire Department is FDNY, not NYFD (as opposed to the New York City Police Department which is NYPD - go figure).
Viper, I have to agree with McCarthy - I tend to think a second baseman, in general, is tougher to replace than an outfielder.
I agree replacing Abreu is going to be very tough. He is not going to re-sign with the Yanks unless he accepts a 3 year or less deal. Anything more than 3 years and they should let him move on.
The Yanks will need to replace Abreu's #'s and get Teixeira if he is available. Then either find a way to get rid of Matsui, and keep Giambi.....Or let Giambi walk and use Matsui in LF/DH, while splitting time with Damon.
Melky can stay in CF and Gardner/Christian can battle for the final OF spot.
By the end of the 2009 Season Austin Jackson will be ready and their will be a whole other crop of free agent OF's that can be traded for or signed.
Big Time Tenative 2010 Free Agents: Bay, Holliday, Crawford, Vlad, Magglio, Ankiel......
The Yanks should not Swap a great young offensive 2nd baseman for a most likely great young Outfielder. It just creates a hole somewhere else.
Cano should not go anywhere. Not that I am happy with his overall performance, but he is under control for a number of years and his contract is very manageable. We can get a free agent outfielder during the offseason, and I would rather we give Jackson a quick look, the same way we are giving Gardner a look - just to see if he can handle big league pitching. He is alreay a great defensive outfielder, so he would not hurt in the field. Only thing we need is a veteran back-end starter, who can be a number 5 next year.
Washburn, as I have been saying for months, is that guy. Put him back in the thick of a pennant race and watch. He is a bulldog. Lowe is done and Arroyo is a righty. Another lefty anywhere on our staff will make a big difference. Gotta know how to play the game before you start throwing these trades around.
McCarthy,
What about Matt Kemp's numbers? His production would offset what they would lose from Cano.
Kemp: .290/.343/.462 with 11 homers, 24 doubles, 3 triples, and 55 RBI
Cano: .265/.301/.391 with 8 homers, 21 doubles, 1 triple, 45 RBI
And Kemp plays half his games in a notorious pitcher's ballpark in Dodgers Stadium.
He's also a big stolen base threat (22 this season) - which Cano is not.
I'm not looking to give Cano away. But I'd jump at the chance to get Kemp in return because this guy is going to be a stud for a lot of years.
The Yanks are in dire need of young outfielders over the next couple of years. Kemp is as good as it gets on the available trade market.
Personally, I don't see it happening. But I'd sure like to see it happen.
Cano hit .151 for April
.295 in May
.287 in June
.366 in July
let's trade this bum for 1 bad month and get a SO machine in Kemp and a former Red Sox who has seen better days.Makes all the sense in the world.
Viper -
Comparing their 1st half stats for this year isn't fair to Cano since those numbers are going to jump a lot this 2nd half.
I'am not saying Kemp is not equally or will eventually be a better offensive player than Cano. But OF's are easier to replace. If this trade happened we would have Damon, Matsui, Melky, Kemp, Gardner/Christian as potential OF's. 6 outfielders is 2 to many.
Not to mention the gaping hole at 2nd base it would leave. If Matsui and Damon were done after this season I would have no problem making that trade.
Steve Kemp would get eaten alive in the thick of the pennant race. Give Action Jackson a sniff and see what he can do. He has to be better than Gardner. It won't stunt his growth.
Also, Bruney comes back and Hawkins is DFA or included in the Washburn trade.
Lets Go Yankees!!! Time to move up.
Matt Kemp's contract is pretty manageable too at $406K this season.
And Kemp is younger than Cano. He'll be 24 in September and Cano will be 26 in October.
I think the biggest obstacle for you guys is that you haven't seen Kemp play much. This kid really has goods to be a great player for a long time.
The Yanks really need good young outfielders who will cover a lot of ground.
Kemp is the perfect guy for them.
Losing Cano would hurt, but it would hurt a lot less if you saw Kemp play everyday.
I watch the dodgers play all the time....I know how good Kemp is. Hes on two of my fantasy teams.
But we have no one to fill in at 2nd base the remainder of this season if Cano is traded.
No one.
Alberto and Bernie Castro are not going to cut it being in the lineup every day along with Jose/Chad.
The trade doesn't make sense for this year. Next year would be a different story.
McCarthy,
The problem with your argument is that the Yanks need to replace three starting outfielders over the next 18 months. They would only need to replace one Second Baseman.
And with the market being what is it, good young outfielders are extremely hard to find. The good ones are aging and will cost a king’s ransom to get.
Ruse,
Are you insane?
Never said Cano is a bum. But you don’t know what you’re talking about when you say Kemp has seen better days.
He’s 23 years old and has only been in the league for two years. He’s also a 5-tool guy.
I've said several times already that losing Cano would hurt. But this deal is about the Yanks long term future - not just 2008.
You'll see just how difficult it is to replace three starting outfielders over the next 18 months.
I doubt it will happen, but Cashman would be wise to jump on Kemp.
Viper -
The problem with your argument is we would need to replace a top 5 2nd baseman.
And find a way to play Kemp, Matsui, Damon, Melky, Gardner/Christian/Jackson next year.
The most important point that is being missed is - Abreu is playing for another contract. So even though he has been okay so far this season, he should heat up a great deal in the 2nd half. Giambi is also playing for another contract. So is Moose. I love our chances to not only take the wildcard, but to also win the division. Not saying these guys will be back, but good numbers will translate into big bucks. It will only get better. Give Jackson a month in leftfield until Damon is able to play the field, and lets see what happens.
Time to tear down the Monster. Yankees looking for another Massacre!
McCarthy:
Damon plays LF, Matsui DH, Jackson is no where near ready to be in the show, Christian is a 4th outfielder/minor leaguer, Melky and Gardner will vie for time in CF or a spot on the bench while Kemp plays RF everyday.
As for replacing Cano - I'll take either Orlando Hudson or Rafael Furcal as a free agent next year.
Wow, this is a Bloggers' Battle Royale!
Who's up next...Viper? McCarthy?
Game on!
McCarthy,
Melky and Gardner are fourth outfielders - not starters. I like Gardner because I think he's more versatile than Melky but he's still a fourth outfielder.
These guys just happen to start for the Yanks because their outfield is so thin.
Christian is not a prospect. He's a 4/5 outfielder. He made his major league debut last month at the age of 28.
With Giambi gone next season, Matsui will be the every day DH,
With Abreu gone, Kemp can take over in RF.
Jackson probably won't be ready for at least another year - and even that might be a bit optimistic.
They could have an outfield of Kemp, Damon, and Gardner/Melky in 2009 with Austin Jackson perhaps making his debut towards the end of the season.
The Yanks won rings with Mariano Duncan and a declining Chuck Knoblauch at 2B (whose defense really took a dive) during the late 90s - so losing Cano wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
Viper - does this put your mind at ease at all regarding Washburn?
The Yankees are fully cognizant that Jarrod Washburn has a full no-trade clause, but they don't intend to add any financial enticements to convince him to waive it. "If he wants to come here, great," said one club official. "If he wants to stay in Seattle, we have other options."
BTW, Chip...
Thought you might like this comment from Jayson Stark today:
--------------------------
A Jorge Posada move to first base could affect the Yankees' interest in Teixeira this winter.
-------------------------
This is exactly why I argued that the Yanks shouldn't sign Teixeira during the offseason.
We have no idea how Posada's shoulder is going to hold up.
Steve Phillips of ESPN says Teixeira should end up with the D-backs ("perfect fit") and we know he's NEVER been wrong.
Well...
Chip,
Yeah, but I don't want to guarantee him a spot in the rotation for next season.
I've actually thought long and hard about next season and I guess I've changed my mind regarding the rotation.
I think the best way to ensure this team becomes a legitimate WS contender again next season while letting some of the old guys walk at the same time is to find a way to get Sabathia if he wants to sign here.
With the bullpen far exceeding our expectation this season and adding Melancon, Sanchez, and Ohlendorf to the mix competing against each other for roles next season - the Yanks could arguably have the best pitching staff from top-to-bottom in the AL with Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, and Hughes in the rotation.
They might struggle at times to score runs, but that pitching staff will always keep this team in the game.
And it would be a big-time equalizer compared to the pitching staffs of BOS and TB.
Who knows - add in a Kemp for Cano deal and the Yanks would be as good (on paper) as any team in the American league.
They could also package some of the young arms like McCutchen, Kennedy, Horne, Marquez, Aceves, or Betances to find another RH bat.
Hey Viper -
Great you are correct that the Kemp/Cano deal would probably benefit the long term Yankees. 2010+.
How do they go about working that trade to help this year?
I guarantee you Cano has better numbers post allstar break than Kemp.
And.....you have to put a bum at 2nd
McCarthy,
I care a lot more about 2009 and beyond than I do 2008.
Frankly, missing the postseason wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for this team. And I mean that.
Missing the postseason would give them a much bigger incentive or reason to let guys like Abreu and Giambi walk and adding a guy like Kemp to take over for Abreu.
But I'm afraid that making this team good enough to get into the postseason and losing in the ALDS again would be a good reason for management to bring back those guys.
I think that would be moronic.
But missing the postseason gives them a very good reason to make those necessary changes. Making the postseason and losing in the first round again may not.
Viper -
Screw that.
We have a bullpen capable of shutting down even the best teams.
We have an offense that is capable of wearing down pitchers and scoring lots of runs.
We have two veteran starters in Pettitte and Moose that are capable of winning big games this year.
This team is capable of getting to the playoffs this year. Any team that is capable of getting to the playoffs is capable of going on a run and winning a world series.
Especially this one.
Go Yanks in '08
McCarthy,
This team has been slightly better than a .500 team until this past week.
This team is at least two or three impact players away from being a legitimate WS contender.
Hey, I hope the Yanks win this season, too - but let's be realistic.
That capable offense you're talking about is on pace to score 200 fewer runs than they did one year ago.
Posada has a bum shoulder and has hit .248 with no power since his return in June.
Matsui is probably out for the season. Melky has regressed - again.
Abreu is having a down year - in his contract year, no less.
Jeter is having the worst season of his career.
This is nothing close to the same offense they had a season ago. They are relying on Ponson and Rasner right now in the #4 and #5 slots in the rotation.
They are absolutely not the answers.
You should wait and see what happens over the weekend in Boston and against the Angels in a couple of weeks before you put this team in the postseason.
They have greatly underachieved this season no matter how you look at it.
Viper -
You are cold man. Cold as ice.
Our offense has underachieved a good portion of this season you are absolutely correct. But we are talking about guys like Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter, and Bobby Abreu. These guys are primed to have very solid post all-star break numbers. Cano is a proven 2nd half of season player and I think we can count on him doing the same this year. Damon is a big part of that offense and needs to stay healthy down the stretch. Right now it appears he is, so we need to hope it stays that way. Having Gardner, Sexson, and Wilson coming off the bench is not a bad bench.
Mussina has reinvented himself and is leading the majors in wins.
Pettitte is a known 2nd half pitcher, he will also be our ace in the playoffs.
Joba has not let up more than 3 ER's in any of this games. He will start to win games now that the offense is heating up.
Out of Ponson, Rasner, Kennedy, Hughes, Wang, and Pavano....i think we can find a guy who can be a solid 4th starter in the playoffs to win the key 4th or 5th game of a seven game series.
We have a closer who is perfect in save ops....and a young bullpen behind him who are capable of shutting down teams in late innings.
Jesus Viper.....little positive thinking please.
McCarthy,
It's not being cold. It's being realistic.
I'm judging the 2008 season on the first 100 games - not the last 6 games.
Teams are never as good as they are in the middle of a six-game win streak or as bad as they are during a six-game losing streak.
Please stop fooling yourself with Ponson and Rasner. Rasner was terrible for two months until his last start.
Ponson just flat out sucks and I bet he gets hammered on Sunday against the Red Sox.
Hughes is probably out until September. Same with Wang.
I like Kennedy, but he needs to stay in Scranton for now. He might be able to contribute in September.
I'm telling you, this team is not good enough to win a playoff series - especially against a team like the Angels - who would almost certainly be their opponent if the Yanks snagged the Wild Card.
I'm as big of a Yankee fan as anyone else. But there's a difference between optimism and realism.
The Yanks are not nearly as good as the Angels or Red Sox right now.
And without Matsui or Posada, they are probably not as good as the Rays either.
Well then lets just both agree you are eating your own words come October.
Let me try that again.....
Well then lets just both agree we hope you are eating your own words come October.
I love beer.
Viper
I never said Kemp has seen better days.I believe i said Lowe"the former red Sox" has seen better days.
the Dodgers are looking for hitting why would they trade a talent like Kemp for Cano? it doesn't make sense.If Kemp has a huge upside why would Colletti deal him for anyone?
I have seen Kemp play he is 2 yrs from being a complete player.
the Dodgers need a HR bat something Cano isn't at this time.
For the Dodgers Beltre , Guillen or Bay make more sense than Cano.
NY needs someone off the bench who could spell Damon and Abreu flip flopping DH/OF making a deal that doesn't much impact the team right now makes no sense whatsoever letting alone team chemistry which seems excellent right now.
I say go for pitching and someone like Jose Vidro who could DH play a little 2B and 1B.Washburn and Vidro make more sense than all these others being mentioned.I'm not sold on the idea Washburn would help very much.
Rasner and Ponson may not be the answers but I doubt very much Washburn and Lowe would provide much of anything.Lowe has something like a 3.99 ERA in the crappy NL WEST.He is if my memory serves me something of a headcase.
The only starter possibly worth going for is Burnett but it is highly unlikely Toronto will move him.Burnett throwing gas in the playoffs intrigues me.
I don't care about Lowe but he is better than either Rasner or Ponson right now and his contract expires at the end of the season.
Washburn has another year remaining on his contract.
If the Dodgers trade Lowe they're essentially conceding the West to Arizona?
The Dodgers trading Laroche makes more sense a good prospect who could land a bat such as Bay.
Well, this was a George King rumor, so we should definitely take anything he says with a grain of salt.
He's still the undisputed champion of being the worst Yankee beatwriter in the business.
Listen
Cano is tradeable
we can get Garret Atkins and place him at 2nd
we can get Khalil Greene who offense is down but is the man at defense and place him at 2nd.
We need to gain value for what we have in Cano.
Honestly I would package a player like damon or Melky to LA for a Kemp.
Cano's 1st half slumps is not something an aging team should deal with.
right now Melky's value slipped due to overhype so he is NOT t he answer.