On the Yankees beat

Are the Yankees going to do anything to improve the team? If so what?

Hi Kat,

What bothers me about rebuilding is that the Yankees have very, very few position player prospects down in the minors. Don't you think it would be a good idea to trade some young pitching for some young position players?

Kat, Last nights game was a fore warning of ewhat the next ten years will bring, Jeter cant play forever, and A Rod simply is a loser. What I suggest may send me to Bellevue, but trade one of those two, as well as Abreu for pitching and another "Speed" outfielder. We are showing our age, and with Joba on a pitch count as a starter, teams will take pitches until he gets his control better. If we lose with him as a starter, and dont have him in the bullpen, this season is a wash out.

Now that Smoltz is done for the season (and perhaps career), do you think the Braves will stick with Soriano for the rest fo the season at closer?

Perhaps Yanks can entertain them with a possible Hawkins or Farnsworth deal?

Just throwing that out there.

Why is it so difficult for some fans to realize that taking a step back this season will only set us up for the future. All of the payroll that is coming off the books this year and all the experience these youbg guys are getting will make for a great foundation.

Mike,
Bravo! Well put my friend. This is a transition year as I've been saying quite a bit and I'm afraid to say it but it might actually take two years before Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, Gardner, Horne, Sanchez, Brackman, Melancon, JB Cox, Marquez, Austin Jackson etc. etc. etc. are ready, but when they are ready, they will be around a while. Meanwhile they are stuck behind the roster inflexibility that the Yanks currently have while Giambi, Matsui, Damon, Abreu etc. are on the team. You also don't want to let some of those guys go while the young guys finish their development because as always, the Yanks don't want to completely rebuild, they want to reload.

I still think the right FA's added to the influx of youngsters will make the Yankees timetable move forward.

Kat: Do you think the Yankees will pursue C.C. Sabathia and Mark Tiexeira as free agents or are they firmly committed to youth and nothing but youth?

Mike-
You going to tell Jeter, A-Rod, Mariano, Pettitte, and Posada that the Yanks will be taking a step back this year? You going to tell Abreu, Giambi, Moose and all the others in contract years that being 2 games under .500 on June 3rd that they are taking a step back to provide for a future they won't be part of?

I understand you point, as well as many other valuable blogger opinions, but not for nothing....Jetes et al. don't want to hear about taking a step back. They want to win...especially with the highest payroll in baseball.

Miguel,
If you tell Jeter, who will be with the team for many more years along with A-Rod, and Mariano etc. that not winning this year will help them win next year I would bet to a man they would jump at it.

Nobody cares if Giambi, Mussina and Abreu get to win as Yanks or not, they, for the most part, have been part of the problem with the Yanks. The Yankees put up with more nonsense from Giambi (and we fans and his teammates still adore him) and Pettitte also got a pass on the HGH thing AND those guys have been paid money they will not live to be able to spend so we owe them nothing, nada, not one thing. If they don't win, it's because they weren't a good enough part of the team so it's time for a change, a cool cool change (a little LRB for ya!).

Miguel,

Those vets don't run the team - the front office and ownership does. They don't have to ask permission from those guys to try to build a winner.

Jeter and A-Rod are going to be around for awhile. Posada has three more years and Mo has at least two more years.

I'm guessing they want what everyone else wants - a team that has a legit shot at a ring.

Well, the old strategy hasn't worked for 8 years. It's time to try something else.

Yeah but they have to play and if they are not happy then effort would not be made. we saw this last season when the team was crap (early season) Ownership is not in transition mode as well. They are in (shoot your self in the foot mode ) and basically having BC dig his own grave if this continue.

there is a faint rumor that this team will be sold in a few years. very faint rumor

Hello fellas(and lady if Diane's out there). Longtime no chat! I still hear the transition year stuff as if things that are wrong this year will magically go away next year simply because you've deemed it....a transition year.

What makes next years team any better when the same holes exist only without some expiring contracts. They are still holes aren't they? Giambi is gone.....but there is still no one to fill that hole. You have One proven starter....and still haven't filled the other 4 holes. You have a one man pen and no bench....all holes that magically wont disappear in April of 2009.

On top of this the cuppard looks bare in the minor on position players and the only pitchers that even you guys give cred to are hopes to fill spots in the pen. Are you talking about transitioning to a really bad team from just a bad team?

Sad to say, if this is going to be considered a transition year, then next year is a rebuilding year.

As Nudge said, expiring contracts this year will be holes next year.

Holes next year require inexperienced talent to move up. Consider the following - who do you replace these guys with?

Abreu? (dont tell me A Jax)
Giambi? (dont tell me E. Duncan, S. Duncan or Dunkin Donuts)
Moose? (dont tell me Horne)
Pettitte? (dont tell me Rasner /Karstens)
Farsnworth? (Melacon?)
Hawkins? (Cox?)

If one is confident that all these AA and AAA guys will step up and be contenders next year, along with any FA's the Yanks scoop up, you are kidding yourself.

Viper,

Im in agreement with you on the "role" of those players. That should not affect the GM doing what he thinks is right for the team in the long run. The killer is the fans that bought ticket packages that do not want to lay out 10K for a rebuilding year. Their complaints have to be heard since they pay the freight.

Blasphemy! Rebuilding year my eye! We have the talent, we just need some stability in our pitching - bullpen and starters. We have the horses in the minors, just have to figure out the combos. And our starters have to start acting like they have done this before. I will not accept a "rebuilding" year until we are mathematically eliminated. Until that time, we are 7 1/2 games behind where we want to be.

I predict in about 1 month - yep, 1 month, we will be within a couple of games of 1st. Then this rebuilding nonsense will go away.

Hey Nudge, I've wondered where you and some of the other long-term inmates have been.

Doesn't look great right now and I for one still feel that the transitional aspects are being overweighted by some since in reality this is much the same team as it was during the second half of last season.

I've been maintaining that there's no reason to expect less of them than they did then, and while I have left this part just implied not stated, there's no reason to expect much more, either.

I've also mentioned before but it may be worth repeating that the MLB general store will soon be open for business and the Yankees can afford to buy if the merchandise suits them, as well as having a bit of trade bait here and there if the occasion arises. Building from within is great and we needed to do more of it, but from time to time a good deal (I mentioned Justice as an example) can come along and I hope and believe that the 'Yankee purist' mode is not so entrenched in our FO that they won't make a grab when that happens.

Still a lot of baseball (and, I think, some surprises) to anticipate.

Well, think Joba was a little nervous/hyped up last night??? I was almost wishing that start was on the road. Oh well, another learning experience from the school of hard knocks. The only thing I didnt like last night was Joba getting upset after Molina dropped that foul tip in the 1st inning. It clearly affected him on the mound, which he cannot let heppen. He has to learn how to control some of his emotions. That will come in time.

Miguel...almost 100 Millon comes off the books next year. I think the Yanks will replace some of those bums with other, younger FA's like Teixeria and Sabathia. If not, other options like Ben Sheets will be available. Also, if we dont pick up a big time OF, the Yanks will roll with....Damon, Gardner and Melky with Matsui filling in. That would be the fastest OF we've had in a while, hence inproving our D. You also list Farny and Hawkins like they are a big part of this team, please. I would rather have Cox and Melancon than those two bums. You list those players like the Yanks will not make any moves once that 100M comes off the books, come on now.

If we are out of this thing come Sept 1st, I would love to see as many kids come up as possible. A month's worth of tryouts for the young kids would benefit us going into 09. Im not ready to mail in this year just yet though, there is still A LOT of baseball to be played.

GO YANKS!

Diane,

Unfortunately I have been very busy and haven't been able to watch a great deal this year of either the local teams. Maybe thats best since they both appear to be stuck in neutral.

You are correct that sometime at the end of this month movement will begin. That is a good place to start to fill some spots. Of course if either of the 3 phenoms makes a turn for the better in the starting role this season (which odds favor) then that helps mucho!

Mike,

One month from now....whos your staring rotation, 1B, Catcher, RH pinch hitter, LH pinch hitter and your 5 best BP guys?

Ah, Diane, the voice of wisdom. Thank you.

Miguel,
Okay, so you (and Nudge) don't want to hear about the youngsters in the minor leagues or give them a chance because, as we all know, no player in the history of MLB has ever improved over their first two or three years in the league (sarcasm intended). Look, I was all for trading Hughes and Melky for the guy who is now pitching for the Mets but Hughes is 21, Joba 22 and Kennedy 23. Chances are one of them will become a viable major league starting pitcher, they have the talent to do this.
Look at Mike Pelfrey from the Mets. Awful last year, got better this year and will probably be even better next year....same can be said for Bonderman and Verlander, Dice-K and tons of others. If what you want to hear is that the Yankees will replace the current non-performers with all stars than you need to come up with some names. I've already said I'd like to see Giambi replaced with Tiexeira and one of the holes in the rotation filled with Sabbathia.
I'd be quite happy with a Yankee team next year that looked like this:
SP:
Sabbathia
Wang
Pettitte
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy (let's face it, with the injury history, they need at least six starters)
Bullpen:
Ohlendorf
JB Cox
Melancon
Sanchez
Brackman
Bruney
Mo

Lineup 2009:
Damon
Jeter
Abreu
A-Rod
Tex
Matsui
Posada
Cano
Melky

That is not too bad if you ask me.

1st base - Giambi w/Betemit and player to be named later (right handed bat).
Catcher - Posada/Molina
RH pinch hitter - Posada on off days PR - Gardner
LH pinch hitter - Posada/Matsui/Damon/Abreu on off days
Starting Rotation:
Wang
Pettite
Joba
Mussina
Rasner or player to be named later
Bullpen:
Cox/McCutcheon
Melancon
Ohlendorf
Hawkins
Hughes/Ramirez
Mo

Jim A. - looks like a possible winner to me...throw Gardner in as a 4th OF and late inning base stealing threat off the bench, and we may have something brewing next year. I think Bruney will be gone though ( last year of his contract ). I say bring my buddy Robertson up and see if he can get his control in check.

Either way..not a bad squad especially if Phil, Ian, Joba, Melk, Cano...continue to improve.

Jim A,

Everyone would love to pencil Tex into their lineup. Unfortunately only one team will and if you believe the hub bub, the favorite is Baltimore. Even if Pettitte returns, that SP lineup is as shaky as this years. You assume things from those unproven guys and still view the Pettitte of 2004. I don't think Andy comes back but if he does you should not expect more than a fourth level starter from him.

Your lineup except for Tex is the same as this year but one year older. If you dont get Tex then your one year older with someone else not as good playing first (since Tex is by far the best player available) Still the pen and bench suffer decay. Thats hopefully where this year they fortify a bit.

No one says young guys dont come along and develop. Its just that you can't pencil them in as slotted players until they win a fulltime job and prove they are worthy of it. Saying his numbers look good at AA or in college just gets them an invite....not a garranteed reservation. Maybe in September the Yanks can pull up some of these hopefuls and let them prove themselves on the big stage.....you know....like its done on the other teams!

M from J,

Glad your voice is back in the mix.

I like a guy who knows blasphemy when he sees it.

;-)

Jim A

Love your bullpen - So glad to get rid of most of today's! Can we only use Cano in the 2nd half?

Ken Davidoff has posted a column on the Yanks and the "transition" year.

Mike,

Thats a contending team to you? A BP of failed pitchers and minor leaguers. SP thats mostly either too old or too young. The same 1B disaster that has recurred for 3 seasons now and a catcher that no one is really sure will ever be a regular catcher again. PH that are also starters??? So when they are PHing....whos the bench guy thats starting???

Jim-

Dont get me wrong, I'm all for youngsters in Yanks system to progress and contribute. I'm just saying, in playing devils advocate, that banking on the idea of these youngsters coming up and contributing next year is equal to hoping farnsworth, hawkins, patterson and others contribute this year!

I hope Cox and Melacon and others (Ramierez, Sanchez, Brackman) come up and do well. But I'm not sold on the idea that they will make more of a contribution next year than the current relievers this year. You and I both can not predict 2 of the hopefuls that you mentioned (brackman and sanchez) will flourish after tommy john surgry. Nor can we say that Tex will be the 1st baseman yanks have sought since tino and hence hoped for with giambi.

All Im saying is that if this year is considered a transition year, then so is next year...at most! I'm not putting all my chickens in one basket with Melecon, Cox, Brackman, Sanchez, Kennedy, Hughes, Ramierez, A jax, Tabata and consider it anything less than a transition year. That my friend is a rebuilding year.

Im more along the lines of playing and winning THIS YEAR to the capability that a 200 mill. payroll is expected to. That goes from Jeter all the way to Betemit. Timely hitting, proper base running, hitting with RISP, bunting, hit and runs and effective team defense contribute to a winning season just as much as 8th inning relievers, quality starting pitching and going from W.S. contenders to a transition year.

Mike,

I have to apologize on the bullpen commentary. I asked who are your 5 best BP guys....you obviously though I meant Batting Practice guys. Now it makes sense.

Now that the person who had been posting as me all morning seems to have left, I feel like going back to just plain old Chip. And with the return of my identity I bring you the following RANT ALERT:
********************************

It's not often that I agree with Mike Francesa and yet I find myself forced to do so now. I have, and still am, in favor of Joba being a starter but the way it is being handled is a joke. It's a joke in that the Yankees' upper management has turned the season into the Joba Chamberlain story rather than the pursuit of 27. You have a team with 3 first ballot hall of fame players on it and they are taking a back seat to Joba.

When I heard that they were going to start stretching him out for a starting role I figured, ok, a couple of longer outings in relief here and then when he's in that in between area where he's not pitching enough to go deep in a game but too much to throw in relief send him to AAA where the results don't matter, and that he would be ready to start in the majors around the All-Star break when his pitch count was up and he could throw without restrictions. That seemed understandable to me.

Turning a major league baseball game against a division opponent into a mid March Spring Training affair so that Joba can get his pitch count up is the ultimate hubris. And I don't blame Joba for this at all, Joba is doing what he is told to do and I imagine so too is Girardi. But that there are people in the front office who think it is acceptable to charge fans what they are paying to see a circus rather than baseball is unreal. And then for YES to turn it into the overly dramatic nonsense that it was last night - interviews with his dad, asking Roy Halladay - ROY HALLADAY - how he felt going up against Joba...I mean COME ON!!!!!!!

Joba started last night because the Yankees wanted him to start at home - it had nothing to do with winning baseball, it had to do with drama. If it were about baseball he would have been in Scranton, and if they were determined to start him at this level, with that pitch restriction, it should have happened in Minny against a pitcher the team could count on scoring runs against and let Andy go toe to toe with Halladay.

Look, the Yankees have problems that go far beyond this situation, 200 million and they have no bench, no left handed relief, its insane. I had no problem moving Joba out of the pen because I refuse to believe that a team with the resources the Yankees have can't find relief pitchers. I'm not talking about a bullpen full of Mariano Rivera's but just league average relievers.

Think about this - in 1996 the Yankee pen was:
Wetteland
Rivera
Nelson
Mecir
Lloyd
Weathers

The New York Yankees are now turning their season on its head for the sake of 1 player. I'm certain that there are guys in that clubhouse who resent what's being done. Steve Phillips once said that he wouldn't sign A-Rod because he didn't want a team to be 24 and 1. The Yankees, by the way they are handling this, are creating a situation where, by no fault of his own, Joba is being backed into a 24 and 1 scenario.

RANT ENDS

Chip,

Wow, Nice job! I'll leave it at that.

Miguel,
I certainly see your point, but the $200M guys have so far not done the job so why can't a group of younger (hungrier?) players do that?

I'm hoping that some sense of normalcy returns and the guys who have been playing a while get their acts together and signs of progress are around, they just appear very small right now.

GO YANKS, OLD AND NEW!!!!

Chip,

As I've pointed out ad nauseum, the handling of the Joba transition was turned into a PR operation when the public and the media started rumbling about Girardi and the team's performance, and it has achieved exactly what it was designed to do.

Jim A,

How long would you follow the SWB team if it were playing up here? Probably at first you'd be real excited. Eventually the reality of seeing over matched player after overmatched player would wear on you. Thats whats happening now at a mini level. Remember the entusiasm for Shelly Duncan? Yeah let him play....we'd rather see someone with entusiasm who isn't making millions. Well....Shelly stunk! Why would you repeat that just for the sake of seeing new blood. If they ARE being patient...then they should let those guys develop in time and stop rushing these guys along. THATS good for the team in the long run! Wait half a season too long to promote a guy rather than half a season too soon and setting him back(see Hughes and Kennedy).

Nudge -

From the first day of Little League we are told, no one is more important than the team and the only stat that matters gets posted in the W column of the Box Score.

I am all for Joba being a starter, but the Yankees are sacrificing W's for story lines. If this were any other team we would be laughing about how bush league it is.

I'm also hopeful that Cash and Co. will use this time leading up to the All-Star break to completely revamp the movable parts on this team. By that, I mean it is time for some dead weight to go. The Yankees parted company with Morgan Ensberg because he wasn't getting the job done, it is time to do the same with LaTroy Hawkins. Shelley was a wonderful story last year - magic carpet rides end. I believe Veras, Ohlendorf, and Ramirez can pitch at this level, but they need defined roles - and whats more, they need back-up. Make a move for a Brian Fuentes or a Vinny Chulk (San Fran) they will not cost much in terms of prospects and can fill a role on this team.

No disagreements there Chip. But they right now seem a ship without the rudder. Like there really is no over riding plan or philosophy. They are almost trying to be too many things to too many people. They want to be contenders....on a youth movemenbt...build from with in....protective of the young...depend on the veterans....conservative....innovative....etc.

Many of these are opposing philosophies. But they try them all at different times. Do I have to say again that Cashman has got to go? Whether its his plan or not he is either wrong or not effective at getting his point across.

Chip and Diane,
Of course this is the plan! The Yanks know that most fans would not have accepted it if Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi had said "Folks, we're not going to be very good this year, we're going to break in some new players and well, this may be a painful process for all of us". Instead, they give the fans something to get excited about so they take their minds off the fact that the team is not contending right now.
Welcome to the world of big business I guess huh?

I still love my Yankees no matter what, I love 'em all (except Farnsworth, I'm not speaking to him at the moment).

As for Shelley, sometimes great stories are just that...
Great for one year and then that's it

Remember Shane Spencer?
Remember Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon?

The Red Sox got one good year and a lot of post season heroics from Mark Bellhorn in 2004

The next year he was cut

Phil Plantier anyone?

So where was the live chat w/ Kat (hey, that's a good idea for a new segment "The Kat Chat" Sully can produce it!? Was it on another page or something?

Oops...just realized the chat is set for Thursday. My bad.

Chip - very nice post, cant disagree with that.

As far as everyone harping on the 200M payroll, its that high due to past mistakes. By no means does a high payroll = wins. I think the Yanks have displayed that fact over the past 3 1/3 years. The contracts they had these players sign are back loaded.

Giambi = 23M
Pettitte = 16M
Abreu = 16M
Pavano = 11M
Moose = 11M
Farny = 6M
Hawkins = 4M

Thats 87 F'in Million Dollars for crap!!! Thats more than 15 MLB TEAMS!!!!!!! Including =

Astros = 88M
Indians = 78M
Brewers = 74M

It has gotten out of freakin control. Take all those guys off the team, and the Yanks would still have the payroll more than the Angels and rank 6th in the league.

STOP THE INSANITY!!!!!!!

How much deeper will we dig this hole??? Look what Billy Bean does with the A's..currently 28th in the league in payroll @ 47M ...you know..Giambi + Pavano + Moose. They seem to be in the mix every year and hey..they currently have a better record than the Yanks. Ive said this before, but could you imagine Bean with a 200M spending limit? My god, his team would win 120 game every year. The way he makes trades, evaluates minor league and major league talent..makes the rest of the GM's look like fantasy baseball managers. Now that's a GM. Why cant the Yanks come up with smart moves that do not involve just spending more money than everyone else?

We need to get smarter and make better baseball moves that are not motivated by what the f'in fans and media feel is best for the team. Or that it will hurt the feelings of the current vets.

SCREW THE FANS
SCREW THE MEDIA
SCREW THE VETS

Make moves based on what is best for the team over the long haul..period. Hopefully the Yanks brass can smarten up and realize the throwing money at an issue is solving ZERO!

Part of that process is brining up young guys and seeing what they have, that process has started this year. Now lets see if the Yankee front office can actually stick to it, take the hit..and be like Andy Dufresne - crawl through a river of sh*t and come out clean on the other side.

And please, I will throw myself out the window if I read more posts with =

- the Yanks print money in the bronx
- we are the yankees, we are 'entitled' to more than this
- we should expect more since the roster costs 200M
- the yanks dont rebuild, they reload
- the fans pay for WS wins, not rebuilding years

GET OFF YOUR FREAKING HIGH HORSES!!! WE ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN ANY OTHER TEAM!!!!

Sorry...I started getting a little upset while writing that post.

: )

Nudge - and I should warn you this turned into another rant

I'll disagree with you there. I think there is a plan. The plan is to integrate young players into the roster. To get to a point where they have the internal resources to get away from signing the dregs that make it to Free Agency in today's baseball economy.

But they seem like they're just stuck between a rock and a hard place as to how to do it. You can't claim to rebuild when your payroll is highest in the game, but then you look at that payroll and realize just HOW MUCH OF IT is dead weight. From Pavano to Igawa to Farnsworth to Mussina to Giambi - and I realize the Yankees have no one to blame for those contracts but themselves, but they stayed out of free agency (save their own players) so as to not compound that problem and so now they're stuck with a Giambi at first, and no options other than a Farnsworth in the pen. And really, I'm okay with that too. The last thing I wanted this winter was for the team to invest 3 years in a David Riske or Scott Linebrink.

What frustrates me is that it appears as if the Yankees are just now starting to audition players for roles - that's insane - that's why you have spring training.

I think if you got him alone and doped him with truth syrum Brian Cashman would tell you that he would be fine with the Yankees missing the playoffs this year if by the end of the season Joba and Hughes showed progress in becoming the future aces of this team.

Now, it's all well and good to say - ok - so these are the problems, how do you fix them. I don't know if these qualify as fixes but here is what I would do:

1. Send Joba to AAA to get his pitch count up. His next start is 80 pitches - that will be maybe 5 innings? Call him up when he can go 110 with no problems

2. Use a Dan Giese in that fifth starter spot until Joba is ready. At least he won't kill the pen. If Giese fails, move onto the next guy - Steve White, just keep going down the line.

3. Dump Hawkins. He is accomplishing nothing here. Bringing him into a game is akin to giving a giving firefighters gasoline instead of water.

4. Bring up more kid pitchers. Mark Melancon/JB Cox - if we're going to rebuild, scrap the half measures and do it. I know they're both back from TJ surgery last year but they have thrown enough to get the arm strength back - lets see what they have.

5. Make a deal for a Brian Fuentes type or even a guy who has fallen out of favor with his team (Aaron Heilman). There are a few teams out of it (Rockies, M's, San Fran) and they have veteran pitchers who won't cost a lot in terms of prospects. You could probably get Fuentes for Ross Ohlendorf straight up. Fuentes would solve two issues - 1 he's left handed and 2 he was a closer and has shown he can be a reliable set up guy.

6. Revamp the bench. Some of this will be helped when Posada is playing and Molina is not but you have to do better than a bench of Duncan, Molina, Moeller, Betemit. They have Ben Broussard and Jason Lane at AAA, bring them up. Go and bring in a Miguel Cairo who can be a contact hitter off the bench.

7. Send Robbie Cano to AAA to regain his stroke and confidence. Also let it serve as a wake-up call to him. Hey, I like that he's a happy guy and laid back...but he also seems like a guy who needs a hard slap in the face to wake him up. A trip to scenic Scranton may serve him well.

chip: I agree with 1.3.4.5.6. and 7. Giese is no answer for the 5th starter but I 'm tired of this half a$$ audition for the 2009 season. Just do it and follow through. Lets learn what we actually have in our system and on the roster. Then in the fall we know what retooling is necessary.

DRU. As you have indicated $200 million gets you absolutely nothing in guarantees for wins. Kids at AAA will compete if given the opportunity to show their stuff. At least we can retool. Watching night after night of failure of this select overpaid lineup come up empty handed is frustrating. The problem is with the contracts on this club being what they are,its tough to mingle the new kids because the contracts are more than most clubs want to pickup in trades.

My feeling is Cashman wanted to blow this team up and start over but the ownership would not let him field a team that was destined for last place in the last season of Yankee Stadium so now what you call auditioning players is actually just a case of Cashman having to rush his plan into place. He wanted to let go of A-Rod, didn't want to give Mo and Posada so many years but ownership forced his hand so he is doing the best he can to satisfy them and us. It's actually a no-win situation and the next GM may find himself in the same situation Cashman was when Bob Watson, Gene Michael and Buck Showalter handed he and Joe Torre a team that was on the brink of sustained success.

Remember the Horace Clarke era? Old stars not being replaced because the minor leagues were barren. Sound familiar? How about the "What do you know" Robbie Cano era?

Jim,

I agree with you 100%. I think if it was up to Cashman this team would be dramatically different right now.

That said, Brian did himself a disservice with Posada and Mo, he could have gotten both for 2 year deals if he negotiated with them in spring training as opposed to waiting until after the season.

Larry

Number 2 is only a stop gap until Joba gets his pitch count up. I'm not expecting anything from Giese or White, but at least they can throw 5 innings right now.

Hey just think - Carl Pavano should start a throwing program any day now.

Chip: there will be no surprise there. Pavano will get a buttocks strain when he bends over to pick up the rosin bag after three pitches. The Yankees will send him immediately to the 60 day disable list and shut him down for the remainder of his contract with the Yankees.

Everyone talks about Cashman not knowing what he's doing, por evaluator of talent. How much can anyone blame him with the interference that was more than likely occurring with every motion that he made.

Larry,
That's exactly right. One could argue that having the resources he has available to him has actually hampered him at times because nobody was ever around to say "don't even think about getting that guy, he's way out of our price range". Instead, it was "go get him now!" and we fans loved it, but it's not working and it's time to try another way of doing business. I like the idea of outspending everyone else in the RIGHT way by scouring the earth for talent and beefing up scouting all over the world, providing world class player development environments etc. We Yankee fans may have to suffer but it won't be for long.

Here's something not Yankee related:

Smoltz's career is probably over.
Maddux has said he's retiring this year
Piazza just retired
Glavine, Griffey, Frank Thomas, Omar Vizquel, Pedro are all free agents and could easily make this their last year.

That means that 5 years from now we could see a Hall of Fame class of Smoltz, Pedro, Glavine, Maddux, Piazza, Glavine, Griffey, Thomas, Vizquel - easily the best hall of fame class in what 20 years?

At least Chip. I can't remember a class that big in a very long time.

All I know is, I'm going to Cooperstown when Mo gets in....who's with me?

Jim A: everynight the tease gets worse and worse. I can live with a revamp SR and bullpen of young guys complimenting our all star lineup with the freight train bringing up and down guys to Scranton and Trenton upon their merits. Cano needs to be sent down for a wake up call. He may learn the strike zone even the fans last night cheered as he took a first pitch offering . The pitchers are just pitching off the outside corner because they know that he'll swing. I can't waite for tonights inabilities to surface.

Chip,

I commend you for your reversal on Joba but you were the guy telling me last week that the Yanks knew what they were doing with this transition better than I do and he should be okay.

I said last week that this transition was happening way too fast and to have him pitch against Halladay at the Stadium was moronic.

Now I've been in favor of the switch from the get-go, but they did not stretch his arm out properly. They should have given him more time.

I'm glad you came over to my side of this argument albeit 5 days later.

Nudge,
Very funny stuff!

Diane,
Its good to be back with all my fellow Yankee fans (and Sully the Seamonster).

Chip - you rule as usual (almost)! Cano does need to be sent down/sat down and Gonzalez brought up. Duncan can be sent back down. Defense and situational hitting is more important. Can't figure out what is wrong with Cano, but there is something wrong for sure. Hope Jorgie plays tonight as DH.

Jim A,
I am not speaking to Farns-not-worth either!

Go Yankees - We gotta start somewhere!

I'm a bit surprised that it was Giese who was sent down for Posada. I thought that the Yanks would want to have a real long man around for a bit, especially since Alan Horne was activated by SWB which means that Giese is probably heading back to their pen sometime soon, so it's not like they'd be losing a starter down there. Oh and Pete Abe says Matsui is DH tonight and Jorge is on the bench.

Chip - I agree that Robbie needs to be sent down, but I think that they'd rather have him work with Kevin Long than the hitting coach down there, so the answer may be to bring someone up rather than sending him down.

Chip,

Other than the Cano to AAA thing......Im pretty much in agreement with ya. Lets not make this a habit.

I would like to say that I can not believe how awesome Mariano still is. We should be privileged to be watching him pitch and I will be honored to tell me grandkids that I was able to watch the great Mariano Rivera his entire career. Like someone said the other day, he is right up there with Ruth. Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle. I don't care what anyone say's, Mariano is the best closer of all time.......period!

Forgot to mention Yesturday

Whitey Ford was here as well as Thurmon Munson's Wife.

Lets also be real here.

I see people typing that BC would have fielded a completly different team again sparing him the blame.

They scoured the market and was on panic mode when there were limited 3b options. BC was going to ride with W.B. and thankfully Alex balked. Again the whole Alex thing could have been previously thrown in the air at BC.

BC shot himself in the foot in regards to Jorge and Mo but that was a catch 22 he had to see how they done over the course of the season. Mo earned his as well as Posada . Mo is doing his thing right now , Posada is not (injury) the issue with Jorge was who was going to replace him? add to the fact that new faces in ownership so they had to in regards to PR relations had to keep their icons.

Every transition to the keeping of Bobby Areau to giving Moose a two year deal was BC doing.

another Sheffield type deal involving Bobby should have been done to gain some prospects.

Bomber,
You have to look at the Yankees system before saying that Abreu should be traded for prospects. Who would replace him? The Yankees have no outfield prospects who are ready to be the every day right fielder for them so why would they trade the one they've got who is only here for this season?
My guess is Cashman laid out a plan that basically said goodbye to A-Rod and a few others and brought in stop-gap replacements like Betemit or people on one year contracts to bridge the gap between the future players like Alberto Gonzalez, AJax etc. but the ownership probably told him they wanted to contend while they were in the last season at Yankee Stadium and while George was still around. Don't discount the fact that Hank and Hal would love to win one more for George.

Jim then it would not be a transition year if your playing to WIN then for example you have a back up plan in case Phil and Ian failed no was done. Alex Gonzales is not viewed as no heir to 3b that was never in the plan. BC has more power than many is led to think.

ALex departure was a big cancer and was a thing for concern in no way was BC letting WB start at 3b just like in no way was he letting Bubba crosby start in CF.

Johnny Damon blasted the Joba Move in todays daily news and basically ECHOED what many of us dumb fans on here have been saying about Yankee championship runs.

"During their run if they had a lead after 6 innings the game was basically over"

yes SP should hold a lead after 6.

Bomber,

With all due respect to Damon, he doesn't run the team and this move was made because it will pay huge dividends long after Damon is gone.

Damon is actually part of the problem, not the solution.

Read that Verducci piece, Bomber, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about in regards to injecting youth and building a rotation of young kids.

Again, the move was made to lay the foundation for the future, not for 2008.

Read Newsday's own Ken Davidoff's piece from the other day. He also echoes exactly what I'm talking about:

-------------------

Now, to make clear, the feeling here is that Cashman is doing the right thing. The Yankees need to take a one-year breather, to move further away from the cycle of binging that got them into this mess in the first place.

As you know, the Yankees will lose some $85 million in payroll this winter. Cashman, should he elect to stay on the job, will have enormous flexibility. And I'll bet that he won't go nuts on the C.C. Sabathias and Mark Teixeiras available on the market. Repeatedly, we have learned that, in baseball, immense, long-term deals, on properties you don't know, often don't pan out.

so who plays first next year ?

i could digest and agree that Signing jason was'nt a must have then but now signing a 1b is a must have as well as having a solid rotation. I hate to say this but the death of lidle is on my mind as he could have been a stop gap pitcher as we got this mess worked out.

Signing a solid SP is a must , all our prospects will not pan out for our club so yes some of them is expendable for solid experience players.

As for Damon yes he is what ever but if that is how the team is feeling then what ? What if Jeter feels the same what it prooves is that this circus may have pushed the teams spirits into a further funk and like Chip said this is not for the better of the team.

We can assume this will work out and hopefully it will but the bottom line is we need an contingency plan and there is not one present.

Plus people is not trying to hear (OUT HERE IN THE REAL WORLD OF YANKEE STADUIM PAYING FANS) the new staduim being opened up with a bunch of scrubs

I think the paying fans want a ring. Don't they?

Well, that ain't gonna happen until they rebuild the rotation and core of the team with youth.

And don't give me that garbage about Joe Fan and paying customers. That new yard is going to be jam packed for the next couple of years regardless of the product they put on the field.

This is the perfect time to make such a transition.

You are the epitome of that "sense of entitlement" contingency I've talked about in recent weeks. This team has to miss the postseason sooner or later.

You don't want to go through the necessary steps to right the ship and would rather continue the Band-Aid plan that hasn't worked in 8 years.

That's your right, but the front office isn't listening to you anymore.

And that's a good thing.

It's 12:30, so what's the first "legitimate" question about the Yankees ? Which prompts me to ask if, by now, most fans consider Alex Rodriguez to be a "legitimate" Yankee ?

Well the front office that is in charge has had full control since 2005 and won nothing.

And if they don't have the common sense to sign or trade for certain pieces that is in need. they won't win

If planning to miss the postseason was in play and seasonal sacrifise was in motion then Bobby A should have been gone , Damon should have been attempted to be moved.

this team was riding on the false hood that Hughes and Kennedy was ready to step in and win alot of games. Of course BC was,nt going to say this is transition and were rolling the dice crossing our finger on some unprovens while in the middle of the Torre mess.

I am a devot fan I been through this before in the 80's 70's and 90's which was a bunch of filtered in overrated prospects like meacham whom they swore was going to be the Next randolph or Bam Bam who was killing the Minors and everyteam wanted him and we did'nt trade him hoping he will be that star and when we finally realised he was garbage nobody wanted him.

It took a genuis GM to Mix and Match what he have and trade away expendable peices . Melido perez was our best pitcher then but he was traded for prospects to free up money and part of that deal went to signing a pitcher named Jimmy Key who was the new begining of Yankee pitching era.

then with creativity came productive trades without giving away much

Cone

Fielder

Grahmn Lloyd

then we went and signed players like former closer Stanton

we studied 1b options as Mattingly was nearing the end and realized Tino was the option along with RP Nelson.

they traded away my good friend Russ Davis whom too was killing the minor leagues.

Supplement is the Key here

have your core of prospects filter them out some will not pan out and right now Ian is the canidate for such.

You need to have positional players prospect brought up here

eric duncan need to be given his due shot so the team can no what to do with him let his feet get wet up here.

same for our OF prospects call them up so we can get a preview of the future

again you need a 1b that point blank.

You need a quality SP if CC is not too expensive then that is your man.

Stop making hughes and co seem like they are saviors. turn them into players.

this is beyond transition and even worse than the 80's yankees who knew where their weakness was SP this team is just a mismanaged mess right now ) at least the 80;s yankees was entertaining.

I am all for the Movement. but when the writing was on the wall last season that this team was in trouble it became smokescreened when the winning streak took affect and I said to myself were in trouble. That is why the 1995/1996 season is a good example of transition becasue they felt that even though they made the playoffs CHANGES had to be made.