On the Yankees beat

I wonder if this performance will silence those people who said "we don't know if Joba can get it done in the rotation." I think we do now. And no, I'm not saying I expect him to be lights out everytime. It's pretty clear he can pitch well as a starter.

On an unrelated note - Joe Torre can now retire, he finally broke Scott Proctor's elbow thus completing his only unfinished business.

Did you see that Ankiel hit two homeruns last night? Why didn't Cashman trade for him?

DRU: I saw you bring up Coke and I was at that game and a number of people were coming up to me asking me questions about whether Erie was a bad team or if Coke was that good and whether all of the Thunder games were this boring. I laugh when I hear that a pitcher is making the game look boring. He was shutting down those Seawolves with ease. Additionally, I think Phil Coke is great. I have a story about him that I would love to post, but I can't post it here. So, if anyone is interested, send me an email, wag279@gmail.com and I can tell ya the story. Anyway, I've sat at a couple of Thunder games with him while he's working the games and he's always telling stories between innings, like the Joba story when their bus broke down going from Tampa to Clearwater. Joba started running back and forth across the highway. Ever since, the teams are not allowed off the buses if there is a breakdown of any sort. The only problem I see with Coke is that he's 24/25 and coming in as a late bloomer. Many have speculated that he will be tested out in the bullpen at some point, though it's obvious why he's been so much more successful this year than years past and it's the improved development of his breaking ball. The weird thing is, if you google his name, you'll find like 3 different birthdays.

Viper: I'm addressing this to you because you brought up a list of pitching prospects, but it's really for everyone.

A quick run down of where some pitchers are and when we might see them:

AAA - I'm going to bunch these four guys together. At this point, you have to assume that atleast two of them will get a spot start sometime this year. Since these names have been discussed so much, this is all I'll say for now.
Horne
McCutchen
Marquez
Aceves

AA - This group has had it's prospects taken away and brought up to AAA for the most part, but we might get a bullpen arm from this group. I've already talked about Coke and Hacker and Jones are just non-prospects. Kontos is really the only true "prospect" left in the rotation as he cracked the Yanks' top 25 prospect list going into the season.

A - McAllister, pitching in Tampa, could find his way to Trenton by the end of the year. He was projected as a fast mover and was dominant while in Charleston. Best case though is probably a 2010 arrival for him. As far as Betances, he was out with an injury for a while this year, but his control has been the real issue. He's staying in Charleston all year and will probably be in Tampa next year. Trenton in 2010 and SWB in 2011. He won't factor in until 2012, 2011 the earliest. I don't know nearly as much about Pope or Heredia, so I don't want to say much of anything about them.

Wildcard: Currently in the GCL is Humberto Sanchez. He's a reliever this year, but might be a starter next year. We'll have to see how his rehab goes.

Brackman: Recovering from TJ, the Yanks will be looking to take an aggressive approach with him since he's on a ML contract. He'll probably start next season with Tampa and if all goes well, he'll be promoted after about 40 innings when the weather warms up a bit in Trenton. Expecting anything more than a September call up in 2009 is VERY aggressive, but not impossible.

HYD,

I'm well aware of all of those young arms you mentioned because I follow the minor leaguers every day myself.

I don't think they are going to be as aggressive with Brackman as you and Chip believe. Not only is Brackman coming off his TJ, but he also has an enormous body with a lot of moving parts.

It took a long time for Randy Johnson to figure things out with such an enormous frame. Unit and Brackman are rare breeds because they are 6-10, but Brackman is the better athlete with his basketball background.

Although he's younger and more raw, Betances is in the same boat as Brackman and he's not finding the zone with regularity as his walk totals are through the roof. That is, when he’s not spending time on the DL.

I think they are going to focus primarily on cleaning up Brackman's mechanics next season and building his arm strength. The numbers he compiles will be secondary. I know he has a major league contract, but they aren't going to rush him into the rotation next season when he’s got another few years remaining on that deal.

Perhaps a September call-up next year isn't out of the question for Brackman, but I’d be very surprised if it happens.

Viper - he doesn't have another FEW years remaining on his contract. He signed a 4 year deal (with three option years). This year is lost meaning he's got 3 years. If we assume they're going to spend next season working on his mechanics and rebuilding him and that the earliest we'll see him is mid 2010 then at most the Yankees will get a year and a half out of him before he's up for a new contract.

I'm with HYD, I think we see Brackman at least for a cup of coffee next season - possibly even in the pen just to get some ML production out of him.

Incidentally, in addition to Brackman moving up I'm going to predict that Gerrit Cole gets groomed as a reliever rather than a starter.

I know there's some thought that Melancon will be the heir to Mo, but I think Cole will be in that mix as well. Even before he was drafted there was a big debate about where he would be best suited, and given the state (and sheer number) of arms in the system I could see them going with Cole as the relief pitcher.

The guys I really want to see come up are the bullpen kids - Melancon, Cox, and Robertson. They gotta be close, right? And I think Hughes has a lot of bulldog in him and will make a difference in September and next year in the rotation.

Viper, Chip and HYD - Thank you for the extensive info. Very valuable indeed.

Gotta take this series tonight.

Chip,

You said it yourself. Brackman has club options from 2011 thru 2013.

Do you really think there's a chance the Yanks would not pick up those options if Brackman is showing progress?

Of course they will, especially with someone who has such a high ceiling.

It's not like there's an opt-out clause where Brackman himself can decide to leave on his own.

He's still under the Yanks' control unless they decide not to pick them up.

I don't think those club options are an issue at all and will have very little influence on the way they handle his progress next season.

Viper - we'll have to agree to disagree on this one (as we have with a few lately) I just think that the Yankees will treat him more like Joba than Hughes. If the production dictates it, they'll have no qualms with at least getting him into the pen up here - in part to control his innings, and in part to get production at the ML level.

Mike - to be honest with you, I'm on the fence on Cox - let him show me he can stay healthy and I'll be willing to buy a little more with him. I guess there's logic to not wanting to move Robertson up too quickly - I don't exactly agree, but fine, whatever - that said, how about at least replacing Hawkins with Scott Strickland, a 32-year old journeyman who is pitching effectively at AAA.

Chip,

That's a fair argument, but Joba wasn't coming off TJ last season - which makes all the difference in the world. So the comparison with Brackman has it's faults.

But I think we can both agree that the sky is the limit with this kid. I'm just wondering how his size and mechanics will be able to handle it.

He certainly has the intimidating presence and raw stuff to be downright filthy.

Quick comment about rushing Robertson,Cox and Melancon along .It's clearly a numbers game if NY clears roster space w / say the departure of Hawkins then a spot will open up for one of the above.Also have to consider the subsequent return of Bruney sometime after the all star break .

Viper and Packleader...

Maybe you guys can clear something up for me regarding pitchers coming of TJ surgery?

From what I've read about TJ surgery the patient receives a ligament twice or more times as strong as the original damaged ulnar ligament.

In fact if I remember this correctly they use a cadaver's knee ligament in the transplantation which like i said if you look at side by side there's a huge difference in size thickness and strength I've actually seen them in stress tests in a lab on "The Discovery Channel" it's not even close...

Being a ligament in from the knee it is meant to handle the stress of the athletes entire body weight as opposed to those in the elbow which are far less durable and resilient to high stress that comes from throwing baseballs.

Remember Drew Brees?

Brees throws harder and faster now than before the injury.

I'll look around for some pitching examples because I'm fairly certain TJ has become so successful that most guys who have it come back stronger and only very rarely if ever require any further elbow related surgeries...

Rays rolling again?! Leading Marlins 5-0 in 7th. Garza - no hitter thru 6. Best team in AL? and Pena back next week.

Pena is garbage but the Rays are beginning to worry me...

I hate to say it but I think we need a relief ace ala Fuetes/Marte + Top Starter ala CC (however unlikely) Harang (whose value is as low as it can get) or the injury risk twins aka Harden/Burnett...

Tough spot for Cashman...

On that note...

-Heard Olney say..ONCE AGAIN!!!! That the Redsox are going to get CC without having to give up Bucholz Lester or Elsbury and I almost ran off the road. He said they could get it done with Michael Bowden being the centerpiece of the trade...WONDERFUL!!!

Then literally moments later I literally choked on my eggs florentine sandwhich (from starbucks) when he, (Olney) expounded for a period of 3 mins with a series of reasons that it is "EXTREME UNLIKELY" and that he (Olney) would be "SHOCKED" that Cashman would even think about trying to keep Boston from getting him for the same reasons he balked on Santana and that rebuilding the farm system is still even now top priority with the chances of this year going deep into the playoffs a "Very Distant Second."

I'm not sure I can take much more of this...

Having to watch Boston beat us in the division and storm their way thru the playoffs on Becketts heroics to win their 3rd title in 5 yrs and then have to fight them tooth and nail in contract wars for CC when CC could very possibly settle for discount coming off a world series win with Bean Town??

Sorry guys but I'm beginning panic now.

PHUCKER

Olney is an imbecile.

I've reconsidered my take on Harang but I'd much rather see NY get Bedard who is definitely available.Fuentes or Marte would be great.Marte could leave w/ NY tonight.

I love Buster Olney.

He's one of the best baseball writers and insiders in the business. No question about it.

That said, Sabathia isn't going to the Red Sox.

Don't sweat it, Michael. Have a cold one and stay away from the ledge.

Ruse,

I'd love Bedard except from what I've read from all my fantasy guru's is that he's got a MAJOR injury issue one that may have him seeing offseason surgery plus a mechanical overhaul in his delivery in order to not risk it becoming a career ender.

The way he lands on his hip is at issue and because he's done so his whole career it's now become a chronic problem that if not addressed thru "radical delivery changes" will most likely find him out of baseball...

Otherwise HELL YEAH I LOVE BEDARD LOL

I'm sure the Yanks among other teams will not overlook such a redflag so I assume if he comes here it's probably for a much lesser package of prospects or his injury is found to not be quite as serious as scouts and fantasy hacks have speculated it to be.

Fingers crossed.

lol...listen to Viper Mikey.

HYD - thanks for the Coke!

; )

Viper

Why so confident regarding a possible CC to Boston deal?

Is it the Beckett $$$, $$$, $$$.00 theory-aka the money to sign Beckett and CC would likely not be on Theo's financial agenda?

This is straight out of my backside but I'm hoping that both Theo and Cashman may have a bit of a "truce" regarding the Santana non deals and hopefully the up coming CC sweepstakes...

I could be wrong but I think both Theo and Cashman know that neither want to break up their stong farms and then have to shell out a 9 figure contract to CC or in retrospect Santana.

I sincerly hope that is the case I'd much rather hold onto our elite kids and at seasons end use $$$ only to get CC and/or Texeira and/or Yu Darvish.

Harang if he only costs us a few lower level prospects plus say....Kennedy/Melky is my big hope for this year.

Not sure how realistic that is but I'm pretty sure we can trust Cashman to do something to help for this year he always does something at the midway point if not necessarily the big splash I and many fans may be pining for.

Brian has stated that while he exibits patience he will not let lightning pass him twice, The only way the Yanks do not entertain CC is if the asking price is too high and or CC does not want to do a new deal now. Plus right now if Justin Christian continues to play solid baseball that would be another leverage. trsut me when I tell you this. I have been screaming jason Bay since the OFFSEASON only to be laughed at (CHIP, VIPER) yes you two laughed at me it's all good though. I still hold high regards for you two.

also let me reinstate this.

A healed Johnny Damon will be prime trade bait with his latest surge, an contending team would love to jump at him if the asking price is not too high, again the play of Justin and the Bretts of the world increases the leverage to either trading Damon or packaging melky. Justin from the buzz could be the next Cano sleeper that produces while being an unknown.

I did say a few weeks back with my conversation with BC that some attention was towards alot of under the radar players.

A jason lane could have easily been called up but Justin got the call meaning they had eyes on him for awhile

Michael,

Theo doesn't run the Red Sox that way. He doesn't like giving away a ton of young talent or spend big money on these guys any more than Cashman does.

Theo also doesn't usually hand out 5-6 year deals.

And yes, I don't think Theo wants to give Sabathia that kind of money and be forced to give Beckett that kind of money as well.

Theo has a few young pitchers that he is implementing into the rotation just like the Yanks are trying to do.

In many ways, Theo and Cashman are trying to run their franchises in the same manner. Unfortunately, Theo has just done a better job of it the last few years.

I've been saying for months that this is not the same Stenbrenner-run Yankees that they used to be and many don't want to believe it.

What happened in 2005 is that Cashman realized that the team has to make better decisions on free agents and turn the farm system into a player development machine.

It took awhile, but that's how this team should be run if they want to win another ring.

The Yanks have a ton of money coming off the books after the season and I don't think they are chomping at the bit to drive their payroll back up again.

Again, don't sweat it. Sabathia isn't going to the Red Sox.

Viper.....

There is a difference from making a stupid deal (randy johnson ) and a smart deal. that was the difference in the Yankee dynasty.

deals were made that made sense. The team traded prospects for David Cone who came in and anchored the team. Now hopes were high then for the Scott Kameniki's of the game then but once it was known that a David cone was avail the deal had to be done. The issue here is the asking price if BC can get away from trading his TOP 5 then he would do the deal. His concern right now is the longevity of the Offense meaning he wants to hold on to his pitching prospects the problem here is that the Kennedy and Hughes fiasco really messed him up he would'nt lie he told me it really set his thoughts back their performance meaning that plans had to be re arranged. CC was mentioned to him way back and this was the somewhat message.

We are in no position in trading our top guns for basically a possible rental. Again that is why Justin Christian may be a leverage , a team may say they want him.

I've been out of town for a couple years, so I can't comment too much on the folks covering the sports beats in NYC these days. I have my preferences, but I'll say that Kat, Feinsand and Ty Kep are all really, really good at their jobs. Still, in his day, and from a pure sports journalism standpoint, Buster was the best pure beat writer in town while he was covering the Yankees. His coverage was consistent, his analysis was as fair and complete as can be expected for the demands of the job (and I'd say it was outstanding), and his writing was almost always impeccable and compelling. Any of you who had trouble with his work--or the current work of O'Brien, Feinsand, Kepner, etc.--I'd say, give it a shot yourself. See how easy it is, day in and day out.

As for Buster's current work, I'd say he's clearly taxed by having to cover the entire league as opposed to a single team. While I like his blog and appreciate the breadth of the reading he does, his observations aren't as subtle and his writing isn't as good as it was when he was covering the Yanks on a day-to-day basis. I think he'd be a better columnist than a league-wide broadcast observer and blogger.

Still, this is a guy who loves the game above everything. He writes without ego, without affiliation to team or city, without regional bias. I take him at his word. For whatever he lacks in pure baseball knowledge, he makes up in absolute journalistic integrity and skill. For my money, he's the best damn baseball writer there is. Then again, I don't bet.

Bomber,

Guys like Cone aren't around anymore via free agency or trade.

Cone always had a great track record. The players the Yanks gave up for him were not nearly on the same level as now.

Plus, he didn't get the enormous long term deal that Sabathia is seeking. Cone signed a three-year deal in 1995 with the Yanks and signed two one-year deals in 1998 and 1999. That’s significant.

Sabathia wants a huge 6/$120M+ contract and the wear and tear on his arm and his weight is a significant risk.

Cone was a different animal and a no-brainer when the Yanks snagged him.

The Yanks were smart with Cone because he had a track record and it didn’t cost Fort Knox in both cash and prospects to get him.

I feel you on that .

Bomber

Nice to hear from you ;-)

It's funny but like Diane mentioned some time ago I can always identify you even when you forget to put up your handle.

Anyway...I hope you're right about the "right deal for the right" ergo somehow not having to sacrifice his "top five."

However I"m not very confident in the likelihood of such a deal being possible with so many teams in the hunt for CC or similar pitcher.

To be honest I really hope he goes to the cubs or dodgers if we can't get him for cheap.

PS. Bomber

WHEN THE HELL DO YOU GET TO TALK TO CASHMAN YOU LUCKY BASTARD ;-)

Tell him MichaelPTRS sais hi, and that Aaron Harang is our best option in fact tell him if he can make a deal that gives us Harang a very expensive fruit basket may be in order from his pal "Phucker"

If for some reason he wants to think it over tell him he can email me at Phucktheredsoxx@yahoo.com.

I'll set him straight HAH!!

Viper,

Your comment above: "Cone always had a great track record. The players the Yanks gave up for him were not nearly on the same level as now."

Not sure what you're getting at. Do you mean that a pitcher of Cone's caliber requires a greater boatload of prospects these days than it did back then?

That's how I understand the comment, anyway. So what's your point; that the price of good pitching has increased per arm, like the price of oil has per barrel?

We've known that for a while, haven't we?

Maybe I'm missing your larger point.

Anon,

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There used to be several good available arms at the deadline a decade ago and that just isn't the case anymore.

Pitchers like Sabathia are even more valuable now then they used to be and cost a lot more in cash and prospects.

Teams now have much more money these days which increases parity. More teams are contending and fewer teams are giving up these kinds of talents at the deadline.

So, yes, players of Cone's caliber are far more valuable today than they were a decade ago.

And pitchers of his caliber want a much longer commitment as well. Cone had a three-year deal at the time as opposed to the Santanas and Sabathias of the world who want six years.

That's why my point to Bomber was that we can't always compare eras of baseball and making trades because it's apples and oranges.

What up Mike!

Viper,

I def understand you clearly after reading your last post BUT what I'm saying is basically if the right deal or offer comes along then BC would consider the deal. The org. has made it very clear that perhaps all these prospects may not pan out or some may be included in upgrade deals.

In this day your going to have to spend money and alot of it to keep a formula on the Field, the Yankee payroll rose due to the fact that they ahd to keep their DYnasty team together.

BC - knows that cash has to be shelled out his argment is he does not want to spend it on a rental or aging player.

Thank Hank for keeping Posada and MO in stripes BC wanted to give lesser deals.

He knows that it a tight walk in regards to CC, due to the public reaction with Johan. He probally would seek out CC if he is a FA. He is aware that Hughes and Kennedy performances has dampened the public hopes so his they will be productive quotes has went to please be patient. Trust me he is concerned about them but wants to exhibit patience before making any drastic decisions.