The Yankees lost 7-1 tonight. Andy Pettitte wasn't good, giving up five earned runs in four innings (four of them in the fourth). But the real problem was the Yankees' offense. They managed only five hits and no runs against Matt Garza, who came at them with well-located fastballs inside and outside the plate. The Yankees have scored two or fewer runs 10 times this season, and those are games that a team will rarely win (they've won two).
The erratic offense is one reason that they have not managed to maneuver far above the .500 mark. They have been at .500 on 16 different occasions since playing their first game this year, and have spent just three days more than a game above or below .500.
"It's been a battle all year," Pettitte said of the team. "We just, we haven't been able to put it together as a staff."
Pettitte was hard on himself, saying: "It's just pathetic on my part now."
The Yankees badly miss Alex Rodriguez (strained right quadriceps) and Jorge Posada (rotator cuff tendonitis), but any player will tell you they are capable of doing more even without that duo.
From Bobby Abreu: "No panic. We're going to be OK. Sometimes you're fighting as a team, and that's what we're doing right now."
More from Abreu on missing Rodriguez/Posada: "Of course Alex is the best player in the game. We need him, and Posada too, he's our catcher and a good switch-hitter. But we have to just go out there and do our thing. We don't have to sit and wait for them."
From Hideki Matsui: "There's no doubt that you can't substitute or replace a player like Alex or Posada, but it doesn't mean we can't score as a team."
And it is official: The Yankees will have Ian Kennedy start Thursday against the Rays. Said Joe Girardi: "We're going to give him a shot. We felt pretty good about his last outing."
They basically talked about either Kennedy or Kei Igawa starting.
Comments (50)
Sean Henn had a rough debut for San Diego. He pitched 1.2 giving up 5 runs (2 earned) on 3 hits and 3 walks, striking out 2.
Its been a rough start with injuries and poor starting pitching except for Wang. Finding replacement for Arod at third has been frustrating. You can't replace him but Wilson and Morgan don't seem to be a fit defensively and obviously not offensively. What are the Yankees to do? My suggestion, do not over react to the mediocre play of the entire team but continue to see if the plans for the team coming out of ST were accurate. Observing the young pitchers to see if they are growing and have the ability and stones to get it done. With Jorge and Alex in the lineup is there enough offense to assist the rotation to win the poorly pitched games by the staff. And who to move Giambi, Damon, Abreu or Matsui to acguire with helping this team. Who to bring up, what will our style of offense be, Gardner, Duncan, etc.
If this year will become a bust at least let it be productive in determining our future team for 2009. Its early but I'm sure the conversations and plans are being formed for the team come All Star break and beyond.
The Rays appeared to be a few steps ahead of the Yankees last night and it maybe just attitude/confidence causing the difference in play.
Gonzalez clearly the answer at third for now. Hate to say it, but I was glad the injury forced the Yankees to bring him back up.
I'm not happy with the IPK return so quickly. It may work, but is it worth the risk? Give Geise a chance.
Jon, Geise (a 30 year old Journeyman) is no more or less of a risk than Kennedy.
back to the Joba fist pumping thing - you guys read how Nelson Figueroa is upset that the Washington Nationals were cheering for their teammates in the dugout? I don't get why baseball is the only sport where you're not allowed to show emotion on the field. Hockey players celebrate after a goal, football players celebrate after a meaningless tackle, basketball players jump up and down after a shot goes in (or in some cases wag their fingers at players when they reject the shot). Whatever, just a meaningless rant on my part - as I said yesterday, until someone drops their pants and poops on the mound I'm not going to worry about players being too demonstrative.
Every sport has its conventions and they may not appear to 'make sense'. People show their membership in and seriousness about any sort of group by respecting its conventions in their behavior and appearance. Outsiders never see the point since there's not necessarily any logic in these discriminations. Often rebels can rebel just by wearing the wrong sort of socks or belt buckle and only insiders or close observers will get the message. The conventions may change but in their new form will still be just as arbitrary and just as seemingly idiotic. I'll bet most people on this list obey certain conventions of dress and behavior that have absolutely no use other than to identify them as members in good standing of a particular group. I certainly do and I have made it a point throughout life to understand what the 'uniform of the day' is even if I didn't follow it too closely.
My take on Joba is that he wants to conform to the expectations of big league behavior, with just that little leeway occasionally (twice this year so far). He's not a rebel, as some young players in recent years have been, or too impulsive to adapt. Watch and see. I'll bet his adaptation will be well within the bounds of accepted norms for his group, with just enough wiggle room to individualize in.
In short, he looks like a good bet for success in that area, too.
Chip,
Got the facts wrong again. The team was not "cheering on their teammates in the dugout". They were mocking the pitcher with group chants and sing songs reminiscient of little league chants that have long been prohibited from even little league. So yeah if you have that LL mentality I can see how this stuff all looks OK to you. Also Hockey Players congratulate EACH OTHER after a goal. They dont skate to the opposing teams bench and dance or get in the goalies face and taunt him....because they would get their butts whupped if they did. Why,? Because childish stuff like that aren't tolerated and everyone in that sport knows it. So again a bad Chip example. And again just because one person acts like a thug or baby or clown or hot dog, it doesnt make it right or acceptable. So get a new argument that has merit instead of repeating the same old.....well everyone else is doing it.....argument that every parent hears and rejects from their ten year old kids.
Larry,
To think last year there were those who thought it was good to let A-Rod walk because Betemit could fill in at third after he left.
Jon K,
Absolutely right. Kennedy needs time to work out his problems and Gonzalez is playing head and shoulders above the other two guys!
Is it time to start worrying about Andy Pettitte yet? His last four starts have been pretty ugly and they have come at a time when the team is leaning on him even more than usual which is normally when he is at his best. For now I'll just write it off as a rough patch but if we start talking about six bad starts in a row then it is time to get more concerned.
Chip: I was going to bring up the Nats-Mets thing from last night. Figueroa was ludicrous to be upset by that but he cracked me up when he said the Nats were acting like a girls softball team. The reason it was so funny is because my softball team plays at a complex used by a lot of teams and on some nights the girls are playing and the volume coming from their field is incredible.
Anyway, I don't have a problem with what the Nats were doing. Baseball is getting a little silly with all these unwritten rules to the point where maybe it's time to write them down. Although as my dad told me years ago "you don't want to p*ss off your opponent in baseball because it's really the only sport where someone is throwing something at you and they decide if you get hit, how hard you get hit and where you get hit".
Nudge -
You are, as usual, quite wrong. At least about hockey. PRIOR to the group hug or slapping hands with the guys on the bench 9 times out of 10 you see the goal scorer pump his fist, scream, or do any number of other things that is apparently too immature for the corporation known as Major League Baseball.
As for the Mets and Nationals - I don't often agree with Lastings Millege but I will on this case - if Figueroa had a problem with what the players were doing then he should have handled it himself. After all, isn't that the 'old school' way of dealing with being shown up on the field? I find it ironic that all these guys are talking about how, "in the old days" you never would see a player do that. Ironic because in those same days you wouldn't find a player whining to the press about being shown up. They would deal with it between the lines. Bob Gibson never whined that someone was styling after a homerun, he just knocked the guy on his backside next time up.
Kennedy's problem was throwing strikes, or lack there of. I'm sure, ideally the Yankees would have kept him down in Scranton for another couple of starts but this is obviously not an ideal situation. We saw last year that he is capable of pitching on this level when he throws strikes.
Jim - If Andy's going to be a cause for concern then we can probably pack up the tents right now. Each year he has a stretch of bad starts - I'm hopeful that this is just that stretch and he gets through it.
Jim A,
Too early to worry on Pettitte.
There aren't a lot of unwritten rules in baseball. Just act like an adult. Now I understand that means different things to many people but there is a fairly broad acceptance of what it is. I dont care what showboating or hot dogging goes on but just point out there is always a price to pay foir Vanity.
Historical note:
Edmonton Oiler of the Gretzky, Messier days....the first year they made the playoffs playing the LA team are up 2-0 in a best of 5 series. Ahead in the 3rd period the very young team starts chanting from the bench mocking the older LA team...having fun as some call it. 3 games latter the Oilers were playing GOLF.
Happens time after time. BTW Gretzky apologized the following year to players on that LA team for his teams behaviour
Jim A.,
About Andy. I think any time a pitcher has lost more games than he's won it is time to feel some concern, unless he's a pitcher you expected to lose more than he wins.
Nudge,
Yeah, Manny is really paying a big price for hotdogging - as did Rickey Henderson, Dennis Eckersley, and any number of other players throughout the course of baseball history (including Ruth who used to run around the bases tipping his cap to the fans). Man it would really show Joba if Karma caught up to him like it did the rest of those guys....
Chip,
I'll explain the sports stuff to you since its not your Baileywick. Hockey as opposed to Baseball is an action sport. Hence it lends its self to.....action. As long as that action is not directed at a player on the opposing team....like the childish Mark Gastineau stuff....it is not deemed offensive by the opposing team. Players understand this simple concept that you don't but thats irrelevant since you dont compete.
Now baseball is a passive sport during which the action is limited and well confined. So when a player takes an action that is not directly related to a play (when all the action occurs) it stands out a bit more than what happens .5 seconds after a skater moving at 40MPH follows with after he scores. I guess you think I expect that person to freeze in place.
Also as an understanding of team chants and the like....its kinda bush league but knock yourself out if thats all your teams got. Like I said...there always a price to pay for vanity.
If you need me to explain the other sports to you I will. Learning something new is tough.
Others did it blah blah blah.....no Chip I dont care what the other kids are doing....you can't do that, Thats the last time I will tell you.
Nudge -
And let me explain this to you. I am standing on the mound, alone. There are thousands of fans rising up and cheering for me to strike the guy at the plate out, the building is FULL of emotion. If I feel that emotion and I feel like expressing it by pumping my fist and letting out a yell, who the hell are you to tell me I can't do it?
The guys in the other dugout want to beat me anyway. My show of emotion is not going to change that. If I walk off the mound quietly they are not going to say "You know what, I don't mind striking out against this guy in a big spot."
If Joba (or any of the others who do it) did something contrived, like pull out a sharpie, autograph the ball and then toss it in the opposing dugout, that would be another kettle of fish entirely.
You say ball players should "act like adults" but they aren't adults, they are overgrown children who get paid a huge sum of money to play a child's game. They act like their peers.
Chip - the risk isn't 1 game, it's IPK's season.
To some extent even his career.
Honestly, the chanting by the Nat's players actually put more pressure on their hitters than it did the pitcher. I know when I played baseball (LL, high school, Navy) if my team was in the dugout chanting or basically begging me to hit, I really didn't like it because it distracted me and it added pressure to the situation.
On my son's team last year the "bench mom" would make the kids start chanting and finally a bunch of the kids asked her to stop because it was annoying to them, the ones it was supposed to cheer on.
Chip makes a good point about the players just being overgrown kids. Let's face it, if I'm "in a slump" at work, I'm not going to get a bunch of blow up dolls and put them in....positions to try to get myself out of it.
If Nelson Figueroa was so unnerved by the Nats bench chanting then he doesn't belong on a major league mound. You can bet he just gave every opposing team's fans fuel to get under his skin.
Jon:
How do you figure that? Even if Kennedy flops completely I don't think it will ruin him. I tend to think failure is good for a young player. Figure it this way, as a first round pick, Kennedy has probably never played at a level where he wasn't dominant. He blew through the minors last year - starting with Winter League and culminating with some really strong outings down the stretch in the Bronx. It's a good thing for him to get knocked around a little bit. If he's going to be an effective major league pitcher then he has to learn how to deal with the rough patches that occur. He can't run and hide in the minors.
Well, if failure is going to be 'good for' this young player he has certainly had some excellent medicine this season.
Wonder why it hasn't made him more effective?
Guess they didn't let him lose enough games.
Same with Igawa. Bring him back for a few more losses. Let's make him more effective.
It's a question of how much can he learn from doing poorly vs. how much can he learn from doing well. For Kei Igawa, doing well in the minors was of no value at all. For Darrell Rasner, it seems to have really helped.
I don't think additional poor showings in MLB will do IPK any good right now. He needs to get his head together, his pitches down, and his confidence back. A breather iat AAA will do him a lot more good than being thrown to the wolves in the majors.
Diane -
I sense some sarcasm. But take a look at two examples of what I'm talking about:
1. Roy Halladay. Came up to Toronto, had some success and then fell apart in year two. To the point that the Jays sent him to A ball and took him apart as a pitcher and restructured everything about him.
2. Cliff Lee. Was an alright pitcher when he broke in with the Indians, but was so bad last year that the Indians banished him to the minors. To this point he is the best pitcher in baseball.
Jon:
If he were to stay in the minor leagues you know what he would learn? That he can dominate minor leaguers. But he and the Yankees are already aware of that. If he's going to be a quality major league player he needs to learn how to get major leaguers out. You can't do that at Triple A.
Yes, I was being sarcastic, but in a way this whole discussion is moot UNLESS there is a better option available to the Yankees than taking a risk with one of their golden boys. A strategy, let us not forget, in which one out of three of the said GB's has done well this season, so not a completely insane one in a sport in which succeeding one out of three times is not necessarily a failure.
Chip - Your examples seem to contradict your point - would either of them done better if NOT sent down to the minors?
Goose Gossage weighs in on Joba's fist pumping here, and makes some good points:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3393773
I don't care about the fist-pumping, showboating, standing at the plate and watching HR's flying out. Not important.
What is important is the fact that this team can't score runs and can't build rallys.
And can't pitch.
Other than all that, our boys are fine.
Forget Goose
having a menancing stare is just as much showing off as a fist pump if you really think about and Goose was'nt exactly a church mouse after each K, Now that he barely made it to the HOF he can talk mess?
As for the Rays there was tons and tons of people writing them off now this team is playing like the Yankees.
People was so sure this was a failure that is why i do not listen to sports "experts" wether online or nationally televised.
Just like these fools picked the NY GIANTS 6th as the power Rankings team
The Rays are quite simply a better TEAM than the Yankees in all facets. Top notch pitching 1-12. Great team speed & defense, can score runs w/o the long ball and most importantly, they now EXPECT to win. They've swept the Red Sox, Jays & Angels and I don't think they're done. If Wang doesn't win tonite, a 4 game sweep is certainly not out of the question as Kazmir vs Ted Kennedy is a huge mismatch on Thursday.
And if Chip is right it will be GOOD for our guys to 'get knocked around' and 'handle the rough patches'.
Perhaps its only contained and concerning the NY area, but why is this "Joba fist pumping" a source for debate now? Have we not seen the likes of F-Rod and Paplebon pump his fist after saving a game? Have we not seen pitchers scream into their gloves to discretely show their emotion.
All this debate (outsdie this blog) is non sense. Sully put it best a few threads ago....WHO CARES? If a batter doesnt like it, hit the damn pitch! And when he does, pump your fist rounding 1st, or 2nd, or even 3rd base!
To simply refer to the old days and what would have been doesnt necessarly apply. Its a new era. New players. More money. More pressure. More emotion.
I tell ya what...when Paplebon comes in a goes 1-2-3 through a-rod, posada, matsui, and pumps his fists and screams, as a yankee fan, i'm not one bit ticked with paplebons "antics", i'm pissed with my 3 guys swinging and missing!
Nudge /Chip - Way back when during a playoff game Patty Lafontaine celebrated "excessively" after a crucial goal, Dale Hunter caught up to him and made sure he wouldn't celebrate a goal again by breaking his collar bone...and for the most part, it worked. I'm not saying either one is right, Im just saying...you dont like it...as a competiter, do something about it (besides complain through the biased media outlets)
Amen Miguel.
You don't like the fist pump?... then don't strike out
Same goes with the Mets not happy with the Nats
Want to get back at the Nationals?
Here's an idea
BEAT THE F---ING NATIONALS!
Nudge:
Yes, I recall the Arod comments of let him walk and the Yankees have Wilson B. to replace him. My thoughts were you cannot replace the best player in baseball but if the price was out of this world than let him go. We all know the story to his resigning but my thouhgts have not changed. He cannot be replaced at this time. Eight years down the road who knows what we'll be saying.
Larry,
At this rate, eight years down the line we'll be talking about:
1. Should the Yanks have signed Ted Lilly?
2. Joba's fist pump
3. The world economy crashing
4. Should the Yanks have gotten Santana for the youngsters?
Hahahaha....
Anonymous: If I were inclined to do so, I would dig back through the old threads and find the many posts where I said "watch out for the Rays, they are scary, and they will be even better next year when David Price (LHP, 98MPH) comes up.
I saw this coming with that team, they have very few weak spots so I am not surprised. I'm not terribly in love with their bullpen but other than that, they look good and a few of them haven't started to hit yet (see C. Pena). Let's hope Wang hold them down tonight.
It's a transition year folks, we're going to have to get used to it.
I keep hearing transition year. But transitioning to what? The minors are bear of any postion players, looks like a five year plan to me.
How embarrassing is it going to be to have only one All-Star (Mo) when the game is in our home park.
TY,
It's a transition year as the Yankees try to break in as many as 3 young starters into their rotation and await the end of contracts for Giambi and Mussina (I'm not convinced they will let Abreu leave) adn other players to become free agents to fill holes. Obviously the injury to Hughes has set back the plan but the Yankees could win next year with this lineup, if and that's a big IF Hughes and Kennedy are at least serviceable pitchers:
P-Sabathia
P- Wang
P- Hughes
P-Kennedy
P- Pettitte
C: Posada
1B: Tiexeira
2B- Cano
SS: Jeter
3B: Rodriguez
RF: Abreu
CF: Cabrera
LF: Damon
DH: Matsui
That is a pretty good team that can contend right away and even as they phase out Damon for Gardner and maybe Abreu for Austin Jackson and dare I say it, A. Gonzalez for Jeter (this could be sooner if Tex goes elsewhere, then I'd move Jeter to 1B within two to three seasons).
At the same time you begin phasing out Pettitte (for Brackman?) and you bring in Sanchez and other youngsters to shore up the bullpen. If Sanchez can step up, he can be the heir apparent to Mo.
This team needs to rebuild, not reload but it can be done while contending, just not every year. I do not, and have not believed that this team will be a contender this year unless they panic and trade for a pitcher or two or they just wake up the offense and slug their way to the playoffs, but would probably get bounced early again.
Jim A.,
Please, no revisionist history. Check the archives. You said this team was virtually the same as the one that killed during the second half last year, and could put up a record similar to that put up in the second half of last season.
Come on. It's okay to change your mind, but not to pretend that was your opinion all along.
Diane,
Looks like we have it covered: You said that they can't pitch and I said that they can't hit.
Looks like a winning formula to me!!!
There's no question that TB is a much improved team. As Gene pointed out they've swept a few pretty good teams.
However, no one is picking up the slack for A-Rod and Posada not being in the lineup. There are enough guys there (Damon, Giambalco, Cano, Godzilla, "Bunting Bobby" or should i say, "Look at a called 3rd strike most of the time Bobby" just to name a few) that can hit and get the BIG hit. Ain't happening. The Yanks are 2-8 when scoring 3 or less runs. 2-8!!!! That's pathetic!
Diane,
I do not recall that being my opinion at all, as a matter of fact you have to recall I was FOR the Santana deal happening so why would I feel that way if I felt the team was ready to contend now? Also, why would I say "this is a transition year" over and over again if I felt that way? and lastly, this is the team that got bounced in the first round last year so I definitely do not feel like they are ready to contend right now.
I have said all along that the team would be ready to go on a run, hopefully starting in 2009 for a few years to come.
What's with Molina - 2 for 36? Is he so valuable that his hitting doesn't matter? It's not like we have an alternative though. Still it is an awful big hole in the line-up.
Jim A.,
Yes, I remember quite clearly that you and I were both for the Santana deal but both said after it did not happen that the team remained virtually the same and should be able to do as well this year. I was even snarky enough to ask whether if it didn't happen would that be due to the changes in manager and coaches?
Subsequently, as things didn't look so good, you started this 'transition year' line and -- if you recall -- I even called you on your switch by asking if you were suddenly trying to lower expectations, calling that a political tactic.
Remember now?
Diane,
I remember you mentioning lowering expectations, but frankly, I was never excited about this season at all so I probably disregarded the comment. My expectations may be even lower than they were before the season started but that is only due to injuries to A-Rod and Posada. I expected a second or third place finish before the season began and while I still believe the team can go on a run of good offense and take second place, I just don't think they will go anywhere other than home in October, early October that is.
Keep in mind I've disagreed with anyone that said the Yanks did not need a bona fide number one starter to advance in the playoffs and I did and do not feel that Wang is the guy you want in that spot in the playoffs.
I'm actually okay with the Yanks not doing much this season if it means there is a plan in place to build a winner for the future. As spoiled as we fans have been by winning the division every year until last year, sometimes you just have to start fresh and it's probably that time. Although the plan cannot take too long as time is running short for Mo, Posada, Jeter etc.
Hummmh,
The people who said the Rays will stink know who they are. They was certain this team will fail and the Yankees will easily prevail.
To be honest Nudge is right on certain aspects
making two uprovens part of your rotation was retarded.
imagine Johan as the Ace and Wang as your number 2 followed by pettite Mussina THEN one of the Kids perhaps Joba and if he did well graduate to another slot next year. What bothered me was when Gene Michaels stated that the trade should have been done, wang is good but could be deadlier as a number 2.
Jim, you did state that the rays was dangerous and you was quickly rejected by the "panel" of genius's and you did do a Hillary and fluip flopped and said the transition year line ,
anyone else want their archives brought back up ? we can make this the "Online" Truman show
Yep, the way Jim responded to that "lowering expectations" post was very different from 'disregarding the comment' at the time!
But hey. Whatever makes this year easier to swallow, right? Call it a 'transition year' if that does it for you.
I, however, stick by what I said at the time, and our record, in fact, is not worse than it was last year -- you could look it up! If your memory is going...
Here are some quotes from the past,,,
"Jim, I dont think Hughes has to even come close to what Santana puts up this year. I honestly think there is no way in hell he matches him, however he does have to show something. If he does finish ( 5-12 w/ a 5.50 ERA ), there would be major heat from the media and the H&H bros. I would be happy with 10-10...4.50 ERA, as long as he shows improvment over the course of the season, stays healthy and gets his innings up..that would be perfectly fine for a 21/22 year old in hardcore the AL East. So again, staying around .500 and keeping his ERA under 5 is all we need to see out of him this year." - this one was good and this person answered the call and admitted .
This person JUST KNEW Santana was'nt being traded.
"Not sure which is worse, some of the posts or the new security process to post them. This goes back to something posted a couple of threads earlier.
Santana is not being traded. Bill Smith is taking a page out of Billy Beane's playbook. Beane knew he couldn't keep players like Zito, Giambi, Tejada, or Damon but he also knew that to compete he couldn't trade them either. So he set the bar very high and in the end allowed them to walk away for draft picks."
This is Nudge's post
"Doing the Math.....
Approximately 1400 innings to cover in a season.
If....
Pettite and Wang average 200 each then that leaves 1000.
If....
Mariano pitches 70 as last year then that leaves 930.
If Mussina comes in at 150 that leaves 780.
The crux of the problem is then that the Yanks need two starters and a bullpen capable of covering those 780 innings, which is over half the innings in a year. Now with the "Young Gun" approach the innings count gets limited which then puts additional strain on the bullpen (remember the "Joe burns out relievers" mantra).
Last year the overworked bullpen pitched about 440 innings(minus Rivera). That means the two other starters have to cover 340+ inning for the situation to be better. Limiting the rooks to 160 innings puts additional innings into the pen ans makes it worse than last year.
This is why it is imperative the Yanks acquire another starter before the season begins. It doesn't have to be a Santana....but needs to be someone who can eat up near 200 innings and be effective. 01-18/08
This person made some sense in his post....
"Karstens will either be the long man coming out of the pen or in the Scranton rotation come April.
Even if Kennedy and/or Hughes "aren't impressive" as Nudge says, they are still going to be in the rotation. The organization has made a huge commitment to these kids and everyone knows they have to be patient because it is inevitable they are going to endure some growing pains.
It wouldn't make any sense at all to quickly abandon that plan if/when they struggle. Unless they encounter a Mussina-esque stretch where they are just getting annihilated for several starts in a row - Hughes and Kennedy are in the rotation to stay.
Well, that is until they need to sit to keep their innings in check."
This was a strong Know it all cocky post well lets see the mets have a ace and 4 other guys following him and seem to be pretty well off.. anyway read this post..
"Wrong Chris. Again.
There's a difference in being the "ace" of the Yanks and a dominant "ace" like Santana, Beckett, Halladay, or Pedro in his heyday.
By your logic, Wang is the "ace" of the Yankees because he was 19-6 in 2006 (while finishing 2nd in the CYA) and 19-7 in 2007.
Which begs the question....
Why were those other guys "aces" because of their W-L records - but Wang isn't - even though he's won more games than any pitcher the last two seasons?
You're contradicting your own argument.
Also, if you are going to value a pitcher on postseason success, then Johan Santana is not your man because he has never pitched the Twins past the First Round of the playoffs.
As I've said a thousand times, you are elevating the old Yankees' greatness on an individual level because of how great those teams were. The rotation was dominant because they had more depth than any team in the league. Other teams couldn't match that.
Four very good pitchers in your rotation will beat a rotation of one dominant shutdown ace followed by three average pitchers almost every time.
This isn't rocket science. You are just failing to comprehend the simplicity in it."
Diane, Anonymous: Here's a post from me on JANUARY 15th and the only reason I didn't go back further is I was tired of clicking:
2008 08:06
A-Gary:
It's not the simple typing of a code or username that bothers people, it's the fact that 9 times out of 10 your post gets rejected because you've "submitted too many posts in a short period of time" even when you haven't posted for hours or days. I've posted a way to trick the system but by the time you do it, the flow of the conversation is lost. Just go back and read some of the threads from last summer when this blog was humming along, it was awesome.
Peter:
I don't know why you keep accusing me of being negative, but that's cool w/ me. I have always been an optimist when it comes to the Yanks but I've simply stated that betting on all three young pitchers working out the way we hope is not realistic, especially when you have the chance to trade one of them for the best pitcher in the game long before his 40th birthday when the Yanks of old normally would have acquired him.
As I've said before, the farm system should be used for two reasons:
1. To bring along players to play on your major league roster.
2. To be used to trade for needed parts.
Since we've all heard how stocked the Yankees system is with RH pitchers, why not trade one or two of them for a LH pitcher, who happens to be the best LH pitcher in the game at 29 years old? If you trust what the experts predict about Hughes, then surely you trust what they say about the rest of the players in the system. Sure, the team loses Hughes, Melky and a couple of others, but they gain Santana and they still have high ceiling prospects like Horne, Sanchez, Brackman etc.
I have labeled myself as a worry wart fan. I'm not negative but I try to temper my enthusiasm and be realistic. Last season I felt the Yanks were short a top of the rotation starter and I think the playoffs proved that point. This year they are almost exactly the same as last year and some are predicting a championship and while I'd love to see that happen I just don't think 2008 is the year for us for a couple of reasons:
1. Three young starters on innings limits
2. A lineup that may still scuffle against LH pitchers.
3. Two important players had monster years in '07, can they repeat them?
4. Players are a year older.
Those are problems that existed last year for the most part and they haven't been corrected.
Just so I throw something positive in here to not get labeled as a hater, I'll give you this:
1. The three youngsters could carry the team and eliminate all the injury problems of last year.
2. Cano is just getting better.
3. Giambi in a contract year.
4. A-Rod and the fans will come to terms w/ the fact that he is here for 10 years and all will be comfortable so he will produce, even in October.
5. The kids in the bullpen can't be worse than last year.
6. Johnny Damon, Bobby Abreu and Cano will probably start off better than last year.
7. Melky is still learning and may get better.
8. Girardi will probably hold the team (especially vets) more accountable than Torre did.
9. God is a Yankee fan
10. Shelley Duncan might provide the RH pop to make teams think twice about lefties against us.
11. A rested Mussina may actually have a good year.
12. Igawa......nah, I can't go that far.
13. Pavano is gone!
14. Pettitte will be determined to put the HGH stuff behind him and wants to pitch in the new stadium.
15. WE HAVE JETER!
How's that?
this person after being beat up in the post made this prediction and guess what he was right!
"Santana WILL be traded.
Twins will NOT let him walk without getting something in return.
New Team WILL get extension or won't make a deal.
Santana will NOT be a FA next year."
You know what I am going to say who it is ....
RICK KEYES!
Now the below poster while hard to comprehend made some points.
"With all of the doom and gloom that I'm reading here, Major league baseball should forget about playing the season in the AL and just put Boston, Anaheim, Cleveland and Detroit in the playoffs right now.
The Yanks can take a summer vacation to the Caribbean and work on their tans.
==============================================
the team did just that last season.
If we repeat our start from last year the margain of gain would be harder to acheive due to other teams structuring their squads.
i can hear it now a thousand excuses for a poor start
"Well they are only rookies "
they are not used to this
Hughes is still hurting Blah blah
while in the meanwhile Boston has a 10 game lead and Detroit and Clev have the Wildcard locked down
and the Twins are in it with Johan and Fransisco.
the only benefit with Johan staying is that Detroits lineup will maul him and make his FA price lowered"
This guy's concerns were rightfully noted in his Blog...
"We're all thrilled Andy is returning - but just remember, right now all we've done is returned the same team that didn't win the World Series last year. The major change is that instead of opening the season with a rotation of:
Pettitte
Wang
Mussina
Pavano
Igawa
and using Jeff Karstens, Darrel Rasner, Ty Clip, Chase Wright, and Matt DeSalvo the Yankees will have:
Andy
Wang
Mussina
Joba
Hughes
opening the year with Kennedy, Horne, Marquez all ahead of those others on the depth chart.
I would still like to see the team get another veteran arm, either Freddy Garcia or Mark Prior as insurance against a kid not developing or Mussina being as bad as he was last year - if not Santana or Haren then maybe something along the lines of a Ben Sheets or Jarrod Washburn. Also the team still needs to do work in the pen - with Viz unsigned the only returning vet in the pen other than Rivera is Farns - and while kids like Ohlendorf, Sanchez, Veras, Ramirez, and Melocan may help I would certainly feel a little better about things if there was an established guy back there for Girardi to turn to. Maybe a Damaso Marte?"
I just find it worth pointing out that this is, essentially, the same team the Yankees had last year and that team was in a lot worse shape at this stage of the season.
Position players are all the same - bench is stronger - pen is stronger (even after the injuries) and the rotation has the same question marks (Moose 4&5 starters). This year, rather than running out a parade of DeSalvo, Wright, Clippard, Pavano, Igawa, Karstens - they seem to have found, in Rasner, someone who is at least capable of eating innings, and in Kennedy, a pitcher with better upside than any of those mentioned above - at least until Hughes comes back.
The difference - as I see it - between this team and last year's is that this team has a reason to be where it's at. They haven't been healthy all season. First it was Jeter and Posada, now Alex and Posada - get those bats back in the lineup - get Cano swinging again and life will be grand.
JIM A.
Your Pettitte comment got me to thinking that he might be tipping his pitches.In the 3 games he's lost recently he seems to cruise for 3 or 4 innings then gets pummeled .All 3 starts have ended in much the same way.Of course he may just suck period.
Also in 07 he did pitch his best ball the last half of the season.
Pettitte has always been a better 2nd half pitcher. There were times when Pettitte struggled last season in the 1st half as well.
Pettitte will be fine. He's the least of their concern.
My sentiments from the outset, Chip.
No worse a team than last year, arguably marginally better.
No excuse for expecting less of them.
They should make the post-season.
Go Yanks! October ball!
Ruse,
That's a good point about Pettitte. We all remember what happened to him when he was tipping his pitches in the 2001 World Series....something like 15-2 if I remember right. Hopefully the Yankees are always on the lookout for that type of thing.