On the Yankees beat

See, all it took for Yankee fans to come around on A-Rod was seeing how bad the team is offensively without him

TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You go CHIP by the dam mway did you get my email haha

Anybody that thinks he is going to be a savior is crazy. Too many other problems.

TY: Don't you think he'll help a little though? I know he can't pitch but hell, the Yanks might just score more than 2 runs once in a while.

The return of A-Rod has been a sorry excuse for the likes of Cano, Damon, Abreu, Giambi, etc over the last 17 games.

I can just see them now..."Oh A-rod is back...think I'll start making solid contact on those pitches I' have been flailing through"

And the thought of A-Rod carrying the load? I love his presense on the team but when it comes to carrying the team....anyone remember the playoffs of 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007?

I'm more in favor of keeping the guys who consistently produce day in and day out (Jeter, Matsui, Mo) and start sending messages to others (i.e. gonzalez at 2nd for a series while cano sits and watches)

The team needs wake up call, not a Tampa call-up.

BB,

The Mets having an interest in Abreu? News to me. I'd like to see that story. I hope is wasn't another one of those leaked Cashman saves the day by NOT making a trade stories that always come out after the Yanks fall. There's like 2 of them a year. They signed Alou for one year only to fill a hole. Kinda like Hawkins but he can actually play.

Chip,

The Mets currently have Chavez, Pagan, plus Brady Clark to fill a hole. Thats not their top need. They can get by in the OF...its 1B...thats why this off season will be fun watching the bidding war for Tex.

Did you already forget last year...?

There probably hasn't been a single player in the last 25 years that has singlehandedly CARRIED a team any better or with less help than A-Rod did through 90% of last season.

DOC

DOC,

Don't you remember Jeter and Posada playing last year?

Can ARod pitch?

Nudge the Mets intrest in Booby was not this year it was when he was still in Philly The mets had an intrest in him at that time s oyes if the Nats had traded for him the mets probally would have been a team intrested along with the sox (both)

Well that explains it then....during the Steve Phillips years anything was possible. Omar is a weeeeeee bit smarter.

You need to know that when Abreu played for Philly....he was NOT a feared player. The NL East knew way ahead of time the perils of Bobby A. They saw him all the time and heard all the grumblings for the Philly players and fans about his non-agressive style of play. Thats why the Yanks got him for virtually nothing.....because all the other teams knew what he was. But Cashman thought he was smarter than the rest os baseball.

There will be no NL return for Bobby unless its a condition of a team obtaining someone they really want.

We talk about poor announcing here on a regular basis, so when I saw this month's Maxim and one of the cover stories was, "The 10 Worst Broadcasters in Sports", I thought I'd post the list here:

10. John Madden
9. Walt Frazier
8. Mike Patrick
7. Billy Packer
6. Bill Walton
5. Bryant Gumbel
4. Dick Vitale
3. Joe Morgan
2. Chip Caray
1. Chris Berman

I don't really know what their criteria was.

It makes me laugh to see so many people lose their minds. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to read some of the proposals how to fix this team.

* Fire Cashman

* Trade all the deadwood

* Bring up the kids

* The non-trade for Santana was a bust

Unbelievable.

First off, Cashman is going nowhere. If he does leave, it won't be until after the season is over. Keep in mind that the Yanks have never missed the postseason with Cashman as the GM.

As Jim A said in a previous thread, what sense does it make to fire Cashman now when the interim GM would simply implement the same plan Cashman already has in place? That makes no sense.

Some people really have no concept of running a baseball team. They cannot simply drop or trade players who are unproductive or underachieving. This isn’t fantasy baseball or Xbox.

Nobody, I mean, nobody is going to trade for Farnsworth, Damon, or Giambi. When you sign players to long term deals like that, you have little choice but to ride it out until their contracts expire. Maybe the fans will keep this in mind this offseason when they advocate signing every free agent under the sun.

And no, aforementioned deadwood is not getting DFA'd either. It's east to do flush money down the toilet when it's not your money.

Bring up what kids? What kids?

It's not like there's a host of young kids ready to contribute right now. The only player who could possibly help the team at this point is Brett Gardner. The other kids are not ready to contribute yet, especially in the outfield. Some of the bullpen arms will be ready later in the season, but not now.

It's truly unreal how people are putting the bust label on the non Santana deal. Instead of overreacting on May 19th of the first season, maybe we should evaluate the non deal in 3-4 years when we have a much better idea what kind of pitchers Hughes and Kennedy are going to be?

Never mind that nobody in their right mind had any thoughts of Kennedy and Hughes posting better numbers than Santana in their first or second season. This non move was made with the long term benefits in mind. They needed to rebuild the rotation and that’s what they’re doing. Santana would not be much help with the team not scoring runs.

I mean, this is common sense. All the miniature Steinbrenners wave their magic wands and want this team younger and energetic tomorrow but don't want to go through the necessary steps to allow that to happen. It’s embarrassing to see how many Yankee fans cannot comprehend a simple concept.

There's a reasons it's so difficult to rebuild with so many young kids and win division titles at the same time. That's not to say that they can't win this season, but it's not time to dismantle the team when the calendar hasn't hit June yet and this team has shown time and time again that they can overcome slow starts.

Omar was the GM three seasons ago.

Anyway .

How about these options

G. Atkins is signed to a one year deal with the rockies. his numbers are well so far he is 28 years old can he play 2nd??

U. Jimenez is a rotten starter by is a K machine.

The Mets cleaned house in 2000 at the all star break was near last place and still made it to the show , DO not act like things like firing a GM cannot happen midseason. The only thing saving Cash is the fact that the younger portion of the front office supports him while the older vets like Stick and Hank supports taking different roads if Hank the Financial Guru of the Borthers see that maybe change is needed then perhaps change will be made.

if people decide to voice their opinions regardless of what it is and how crazy it is. IT's THEIR OPINION!!! last i knew people had freedom to post.

By the way Viper I do agree with 95% of your post you are a level minded dude, me for example is a fanatic. and to be honest i feel the same way this team is maxed out of options. People is not trying to hear "ride with this team and it's current roster" After last season which was a good 2nd half I knew this team would be like this I just knew it but hey .

I do predict that if this team is 10 or more games out big changes will happen , they will not end the last season of this beautiful staduim like this

Sure, people have the freedom to post whatever crazy stuff they want.

But that freedom works both ways. I have every right to call them on their insanity.

That First Amendment thing works in my favor as well.

There were different circumstances surrounding the Mets in 2000. Comparing that situation to the current Yankee situation is apples and oranges.

When Hal Steinbrenner was talking about signing Cashman to an extension just a couple of months ago, it's unlikely he has done a complete 180 degree turn after watching the offense struggle the last few weeks without two of their best players.

Hank and Hal have the same power. Hank has the big mouth but Hal is the smart one.

Hopefully having A-Rod back in the lineup will help Abreu. He seems to do better when A-Rod follows him.
I posted some stats this morning from Sweeny Murtri's blog on the FAN homepage. The stats of the guys that had to replace A-Rod and Posada in the BO are appalling. However, I guess that's why they're bench players.
This team doesn't need to be dismantled. They need to start hitting like they're capable of hitting. They've scored 12 runs in the last 5 games and that won't cut it.
No one is really playing lights out baseball right now. The Red Sox are staying above water, but they aren't running away with the division, yet. The teams that were expected to be in the wild card hunt aren't doing much better than the Yanks are. Only Cleveland has a better record and they're at .500 so all is not lost.

No team including NY is going to wait 3-4 yrs to see how 2 pitching prospects make out.If NY doesn't see quantum leaps by the end of 2009 you can kiss them good-bye.

1 at hand is always better than 2 in the bush.

John,

Sweeny is one of a handful of beat writers who really knows his stuff and can put things in perspective as well as anyone.

His blog is always a must read.

A-Rod is coming back tomorrow. Posada will be starting a rehab assignment in another week. He's targeting the first week of June for his return.

Thing are gonna get better.

No team including NY is going to wait 3-4 yrs to see how 2 pitching prospects make out.If NY doesn't see quantum leaps by the end of 2009 you can kiss them good-bye.

------------------

If that was true, the Yanks would have pulled the trigger on Santana.

And I'm not saying they are going to wait 3-4 years to see improvement from them, it's that we cannot evaluate this non-move for another few years.

What if Hughes is a good #2 starter and Kennedy is a solid #4 starter in 3 years and Santana is on the decline or has ongoing health issues similar to Pedro?

We have no idea what's going to happen. We need to wait a few years before we can fully evaluate this non-move.

I always read him Viper. I also try to catch him when he's on the air, but he's usually on before I get to work.
I just read an interesting comment on the Daily News blog. Anthony McCarron interviewed a scout that follows the Yanks. This guy doesn't like some stuff about the Yanks as we all don't, but he said not to bury the Yanks yet.
This guy (no name was given) doesn't like the SP. He thinks that hitters will catch up to the stuff that Moose is throwing and he said that Pettitte is pitching lousy. Also, the Yanks are using too many kid pitchers (his term was "they're throwing out kids like it's lollipop time").
He doesn't like the fact that the Yanks are too top heavy in LH hitters. Their 2 best RH power hitters are on the shelf so they have to stack the lineup with lefties. That was a problem last night when the Yanks had to use 5 lefties against Perez.

I still think that when they start to hit, they'll be fine. They have to have good ABs and stop taking too many good pitches. Right now pitchers are pounding the strike zone aginst them and the Yanks are finding themselves in too many pitcher's counts.

Nudge,
Didn't Brady Clark retire or something? I recall reading something about him not wanting to go to the minors and hanging up the spikes but maybe he was just threatening to do that.

Anyway, the Yankees future savior is almost ready. My son has been on a one inning pitch limit in little league but he has now struck out the last 19 batters he has faced and retired the only one kid got a hit off him this season (he bunted). He's only 7 so we'll have to wait a little longer but I'll call Cashman pretty soon and start talking contract.

Ruse -

Some teams - off the top of my head - who hurt themselves by rushing to judgement on young pitchers

Mets - Scott Kazmir - dumped a future ace for Victor Zambrano

Orioles - John Maine - a throw in for Kris Benson

Pirates - Oliver Perez - not on the Maine or Kazmir level, but certainly did not get back equal value

A's - Jeremy Bonderman and Aaron Harang.

Dodgers - dumped Pedro for Delino Freaken DeShields

Would rather not see the Yankees get lumped in there by ditching Hughes and Kennedy because they didn't come out of the gate with scintilating results - keep in mind, Hughes is the 2nd youngest player in the majors.

And there are teams that benefit by waiting on pitchers:

Cleveland - Cliff Lee
Mariners - Felix Hernandez
Phillies - Brett Myers

Speaking of young pitchers - John Lester just pitched a no-hitter. The last guy to do it, Clay Bucholtz. Something tells me that Boston fans have no issues with their young pitchers.

It's a nice story for Lester having beaten cancer and now coming all the way back. Great catch by Ellsbury in the 4th to keep it going.

Hat tipped Mr. Lester. Congratulations. Not quite Lance Armstrong, but still an inspiration and a great story.

Yeah Jim it's a very nice story for him.

My only question is this - considering Lester was one of the guys the Twins wanted for Santana, will some Yankee fans only accept the team holding onto Hughes and Kennedy if they both pitch no-hitters?

Personally, I'm looking forward to a lot of years of Beckett, Lester, Bucholtz vs. Wang, Hughes, Joba.

Something to think about - in the last three years, three guys who started in Boston's system have thrown no hitters - Lester 08, Bucholtz 07, Anibel Sanchez for the Marlins (part of the Beckett trade) 06.

Says a lot about their ability to develop pitchers. Hopefully the Yankees enjoy similar success.

I was 100% FOR trading Lester and Ellsbury for Santana.

And today Ellsbury's catch helped perserve Lester's no hitter.

Thank god I'm NOT the Red Sox GM

(Then again if I were the Sox GM, I'd have handed out long term contracts to Damon, Nomar and Pedro... again. Good thing Theo is manning the club and NOT yours truly)

Revised List:

1 Hank Aaron 755
2 Babe Ruth 714
3 Willie Mays 660
4 Ken Griffey, Jr. 597
5 Frank Robinson 586
6 Harmon Killebrew 573
7 Reggie Jackson 563
8 Mike Schmidt 548
9 Mickey Mantle 536
10 Jimmie Foxx 534

11 Alex Rodriguez 522

Oh my God this is amazing, Viper parroting all the same things I have been saying for weeks and months about the dead wood and kids. But really what else is their to say? We have to totally turn on a dime and revamp the team.

Too late to trade for the players I wanted: Example: Ludwick already has 11 HR's and is hitting .330 + ... why can we see talent that Cashman can't? Ankiel, Cliff Lee and others ...

As an aside, is it just me or every time we open the Newsday home page someone has been run over by a car? When I grew up on Long Island, it was a beautiful place, now it's turning into a real nightmare ... still there are good people on Long Island. But the stories on Newsday grow worse and worse about the crime.

Anyway, I am not sure how to feel about this season. I am just at a loss for words.

For US$ 200 million we are far worse than Tampa for US$ 40 - 50 million.

But Tampa lived off of the Yankees luxury tax and drafted well. They combed America and found the best talent, as did Colorado.

Financial implosion, Tower of Babel, loss of unity, wasting oodles of money ... as go the Yankees, so goes America.

But we should try to look at the bright side if possible.

Someone tell me the bright side ... there is still a lot of talent on the Yankees ... how to make it all work by the end of 2009?

Sorry, no Viper was saying my ideas were bad. I just re read his post.

But Viper in a parallel matter, Newsday did report Igawa cost in total US$ 46 million. You claimed he did not and actually yelled at me about that. It appears that is the correct figure, including the posting fee.

What were your thoughts when Igawa gave up the Grand Slam to the Tampa college kid?

And Viper, if you ever PLAYED (which I doubt) you might view the game differently. Others are allowed to have their own views. What qualifies your views over anyone else's?

Hint: N-O-T-H-I-N-G ...

But you do have some strong and good opinions at times.

We can't just dump Giambi, Mussina, Farns, Igawa, Damon, Abreu and the reast like Hawkins and whomever ...

Cashman ruined the team. It will take years to rebuild.

And again I ask, where are all the great arms in the farm system? Melancon, Sanchez, Betances, Chris Garcia, Horne, Brackman ... Carpenter went back into the draft.

Is Ohlendorf the best of the bunch?

Ant: Answer me this: Do you read the replies that people off you? The "where are they" question has been answered MANY times. None of these guys are hiding or hard to find.

Not surprisingly, Ant is off his rocker again.

I said no such thing about Igawa's contract being anything but $46M ($26M for posting fee and $20M for the contract itself).

Find the quote and link to the thread where I told you that Igawa's contract was something other than that and I'll send you my next paycheck.

Go back through the archives and prove me wrong. I know you've already tried but have come up empty. Maybe if you repeat it long enough, it will become true.

Not only are you insane, but you're a racist (no more foreign players) and a liar as well.

And to say that you and I have any parallels in our thinking is an insult to me. I'm not the one suggesting trading player after player that make no sense at all whether they are available or not.

We don't ever think alike. Ever. And that’s fine by me.

By the way, do you think Kazmir is still available?

Hmmm, seems like I told you months ago that Kazmir wasn't getting traded. He just signed an extension that will keep him in a Rays' uniform until at least 2012. But I guess you know better, eh?

Also, tell the rest of us exactly when and where you played the game since you have such a keen insight in areas the rest of us do not.

I didn't play baseball in college but I did play in high school. Not that it has any relevance whatsoever to the topic at hand.

It's funny, now you say the team can't dump Giambi, Abreu, Damon, Farnsworth, etc. when in fact you suggested they do just that last night.

---------------------

No sense in wasting the rest of the season ... dump half the team, all the garbage, and bring up any and all kids you can, and trade all the vets you can get something for.

-------------------------

Does that comment look familiar? It should. Those were your words just 24 hours ago.

Yeah, let's bring up the kids and let them play when you don't have any idea what kids you're talking about. Great idea!

The Yanks were 21-29 and 14.5 games out on May 29, 2007 with A-Rod and Posada having the season of their lives and the starting pitching and bullpen in worse shape than it is now. They still made the postseason.

TB is not going to win the division and Boston hasn’t gotten off to a hot start the way they did last season.

There’s time to right the ship. People just have to be patient.

By the way, Ant, don't address me in anymore posts. I don't have the time to respond to all of your nonsense.

I know many of us here could recognize each others posts without handles, and I'll bet those who read around among other Yankees blogs could identify the commonly read local ones just by a description of their commenters' styles, with no reference to the owners' propensities.

Want to try? I'll make it easy by limiting the list to other blogs from local sports sections:

1. Short, chirpy 'cheerleading' comments -- hundreds of them. Trolls mercilessly culled.

2. Literate out-of-towners in diminishing numbers, with fewer local readers contributing barely literate references to bums and morons.

3. Responses small in number but highly articulate and tightly reasoned. Recent commenter compares Girardi to a graduate assistant hired to fill a tenured professor's position.

4. Few comments from mixed bag of locals, typical NYC brand of sarcasm in evidence more than rage when things go badly.

Answers in message below:

1. Pete Abe of course.

2. Mark Feinsand in the Daily News. He brought over a flock of his blog followers from mlb.com when he came to the News a couple of years ago.

3. Tyler Kepner in the Times. His is the only baseball blog in which I have ever seen the words 'graduate assistant' appear in a response.

4. Joel Sherman in the Post.

Just my takes from sporadic reviewing... ;-)

Ant,

As an avid biker and runner I can attest to the fact that on Long Island the Car is King. Those who drive vehicles show no or little respect to either pedestrians or other drivers. That observation is one that I personally have noticed years ago. The number of times I have been almost run down by drivers blowing through stop signs or not looking both ways before pulling out of parking lots is amazing. I have had several physical confrontations with idiots who after almost running me over actually have the nerve to get in my face.

Long Island is not what it was when I was a kid. Mrs Nudge and myself are counting the days to when we can move to someplace nicer and more activity friendly. Perhaps one day I'll be John G's neighbor! Sorry John, there goes the neighborhood!

Viper,

I read your long earlier post(18:38) and have to compliment you on your thoughts.I thought you nailed it on that one. In spite of what you think I am in agreement with you probably 75% of the time. Not really sure why you think otherwise.

Ditto on Viper at 18:36.

(I don't express appreciation for good posts as often as I feel it, because I hesitate to add nothing more than 'me, too' to the discussion.)

Jim A,

Bring your son with you to the O's/Yanks on Aug 23rd if you can make it. I'm bringing my 7 year old, who is also an amazing ball player - but infortunately, a Red Sox fan (on Christmas morning after opening up the hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of video games, movies, and other presents, he said his absolute favorite gift was the Matsuzaka jersey he got. I threw up in my mouth a little after that). I've had complete strangers make comments about him and his amazing instincts and abilities on the field. He honestly does things on the field most 7 and 8 year old's don't do or don't even think about, or at least the ones down here in coach pitch.

Viper,

The most amusing "fix the Yankees" move is when people say "bring up the kids" the same people saying that are the same ones who want to write off Hughes and Kennedy 1/4 into their big league careers. In fact, people want Cashman fired because he refused to trade these mystery kids that now everyone wants to have called up.

I agree that the Yankees are not going to just flush over $40 mil down the toilet by releasing Giambi, Damon, and Farnsworth (the latter of which has actually been pretty good this season). There is only one player in danger of being Designated for Assignment and that's Morgan Ensberg - not exactly an earth shattering move.

The Yankees could replace Cashman with a new GM tomorrow and it wouldn't make any difference. As I said about Santana yesterday, a new GM is not going to get Alex or Jorge back to the lineup any faster, he's not going to change the fact that Cano is a slow starter, or any of the other things that ail the team right now.

I'm still annoyed that Lester threw a no-no, not because he did it or because I wish him ill will - it really is great for him. However I'm sure there are knuckleheads who will now expect Hughes/Kennedy/Joba to throw their own no-hitters or else they are garbage.

Ant,

As an avid biker and runner I can attest to the fact that on Long Island the Car is King. Those who drive vehicles show no or little respect to either pedestrians or other drivers. That observation is one that I personally have noticed years ago. The number of times I have been almost run down by drivers blowing through stop signs or not looking both ways before pulling out of parking lots is amazing. I have had several physical confrontations with idiots who after almost running me over actually have the nerve to get in my face.

Long Island is not what it was when I was a kid. Mrs Nudge and myself are counting the days to when we can move to someplace nicer and more activity friendly. Perhaps one day I'll be John G's neighbor! Sorry John, there goes the neighborhood!

Viper,

I read your long earlier post(18:38) and have to compliment you on your thoughts.I thought you nailed it on that one. In spite of what you think I am in agreement with you probably 75% of the time. Not really sure why you think otherwise.
=============================================

Flip Flopper!

Yankees sent down Chris Britton to make room for Alex.

Chip,

Hughes' entire career has been touted around those 7 innings in Texas. Thats all Yankee fans remembered about him till he imploded. 7 innings is 7 innings just as a no- hitter is one great game and nothing else. Buchholz's numbers this year aren't exactly outstanding. He as opposed to Lester started only 8 games at AAA (25 for Lester). Seasoning does matter in most cases.

Nudge -

I agree - seasoning does matter. Yet there are those who have determined that because they didn't have instant success they won't have any success.

I said early on that Hughes and Kennedy and Chamberlain showed last year (and in Hughes' case the year before) that they can get minor league hitters out with great regularity. What they have to learn now is how to get Major League hitters out and the only place you're going to do that is the Major League level. And it won't be pretty at times.

Also, as they've pointed out all morning long on ESPN radio - Clemens, Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz have not thrown no-hitters but Anibel Sanchez, Bud Smith, Doc Gooden, and Jose Acevedo have - so it's not necessarily a sign of a great pitcher, just a great game.

Chip,

Hughes' entire career has been touted around those 7 innings in Texas. Thats all Yankee fans remembered about him till he imploded. 7 innings is 7 innings just as a no- hitter is one great game and nothing else. Buchholz's numbers this year aren't exactly outstanding. He as opposed to Lester started only 8 games at AAA (25 for Lester). Seasoning does matter in most cases.

============================================

Again FLIP FLOPPER!!

You praised Viper on His post now this.

Hughes after so long of Pitching just realised He needs to wear glasses.

He did'nt seem to have a problem in Cleveland last season.

Im trying to figure out what exactly some people hear in their heads when they read things. Anyone have a suggestion that helps?

Nudge

I have to agree w/you on that point.

I can understand the sight/glasses thing as being a slow degradation that takes a while to be noticed. After all, look what happened to Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn, and how he became a superstar after getting glasses

Boss,

Tongue in cheek?

Nearsightedness seems to have a developmental curve. It changes over time. I first needed glasses for nearsightedness just a little younger than Hughes. I am told that in middle to later age one grows more far-sighed. So it is not a static condition and it may very well be that he was not troubled with it earlier.

I remember going through a phase of not knowing what was happening with my vision and over-interpreting what I could see in the form of visual 'guesses'. I think that may be what was happening when Hughes was completely baffling poor Chris Stewart (was that his name?)

Let's forget about this last place team for a second and realize that the Sox young pitchers are much better than the Yankees young pitchers at this point in time!

How about that Lester no-hitter! Another no hitter from another Red Sox young gun!

Beckett, Dice-K, Lester, Buchhotz and Masterson for the next 10 years!!!

Get use to the cellar, because that's where you're going to be for a while.

Rememeber what the Beatles said Hank: "Money can't buy you LOVE"

Prediction: A-Rod presses and it's more of the same ol'Thang!!!!!

LesterMania... you'll NEVER meet a bigger Sox fan than me, but let me tell you something, rubbing it in Yankees fan faces about money is bull.

The Red Sox are gluttonous as well, lest you think Dice-K, Manny, Papi, Beckett et al are cheap.

Now if you want to gloat that the Red Sox young arms have more no hitters this year than Hughes and Kennedy have wins, then you might be on to something.

2 Quick questions for everyone who wants Cashman fired NOW:

1) Who do you replace him with?

2) What exactly do you expect to get for Giambi, Damon and Farnsworth in a trade?

When answering #1 keep in mind this person would be entering a mid season firestorm and probably doesn't know the farm system as well.

When answering #2 keep in mind any major leaguer in the proposed trade would have to have an outrageously huge contract.

Think Mike Hampton, Juan Pierre, Barry Zito, Richie Sexson...

And would bringing in Pierre or Sexson be the answer.

Obviously you couldn't get a minor leaguer of consequence for Giambi, Damon or Farnsworth at this point.

Giambi has no baseball worth, Farnsworth has a lower ERA than expected but always good for a pair of late inning home runs to put the game out of reach and any team needing a .250 hitting left fielder with no throwing arm can do it for less than Damon's $13 million per.

What I am saying is get used to Cashman
He's not doing a bad job unless you treat every season without a ring a failure.

CHIP

My point is if Ian and Phil don't contribute let's say 25 wins between them next season then it throws the future out of whack.

Next season Wang will be the only proven commodity among the starting staff.NY can't count on signing Sabathia.If neither Hughes or Kennedycan step it up in 2009 NY will be forced to look elsewhere for starters.

NY doesn't have the luxury losing teams have of waiting on prospects 3 yrs down the road.

Most of the pitchers you mentioned all had with the exception of Bonderman made decent contributions their 1st full season.Bonderman was rushed to the bigs by the Tigers because of the lack of starters.
Harang was traded by Texas to Oakland for Velarde then traded to the Reds for Guillen the following yr who by the way was having a monster season and helped Oakland into the playoffs if my memory serves me.

owership is not opening a new staduim with a bunch of aging players and a losing season

Most definitely tongue in cheek, Nudge. I think any reference to "Major League" and comparing it with the major leagues should always be tongue in cheek. Quite frankly, I don't buy that or the broken rib being the reason he's sucked a$$ this year. But I do agree with Viper and others who say we need to be patient and take the lumps. For every Seaver or Gooden there are 20 superstar pitchers that take 3-5 years to develop. That said, I don't think Kennedy will ever be a superstar pitcher, but rather a decent starter who is certainly capable of tossing a few gems every so often. Somewhere along the lines of Lilly or Igawa.

And yes, Nudge, the Igawa part was tongue in cheek as we

Anon,

That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

boss,

Keeping me on my toes! Im in agreement on the rib thing. Unfortunately by the time Hughes gets well and rehabbed and all its like last years timing. Then 2009 starts and its still unknown what you have.

Chip and Jim A

The fact is AR had the start of his life last year and the Yanks had the same record as now (without him in the lineup). The fact is it's a team game and one player is not the answer or the fault.

I'll repeat what I said Ny will not wait 3-4 yrs on Hughes or Ian that would put them at 26 and 27 yrs old .No way Yankee management will show that kind of patience.If neither of them are on their way to respectful careers with signs apparent next yr NY will have to resort to plan B.

3-4 yrs would put them in the yrs 2011- 2012.No way.

Ruse, why doesn't New York have the luxury losing teams have of waiting on prospects 3 yrs down the road?

If you could build a new team like the Yankees of 1996-2001 with solid players from the farm (Jeter, Rivera, Pettite, Posada, Bernie, Spencer, Ledee, Mendoza) smart trades (Tino, O'Neill, Brosius, Wetteland) shrewd if not always headline grabbing free agent signings (Key, Wells, Girardi, Boggs, Chili Davis) and stealing a little Met thunder (Gooden, Strawberry) and the price was allowing some prospects develop... wouldn't you do it?

I see how a lot of you reacted to the 2007 playoff loss to Cleveland. And I saw how the 2005 and 2006 first round playoff loss didn't bring anyone a sense of satisfaction about their team.

And 2004 didn't seem very fun for you guys either.

You seriously would want your team to go for broke every year even if it means another bug game, another Bubba Crosby colliding with Gary Sheffield moment?

I think a new dynasty could be formed in the Bronx with some patience and smart use of the money.

Waiting 3 seasons for a prospect?
It's been 4 seasons since the Yankees have won a post season series... not a World Series, but a Division Series.

I'd teach patience.

But what do I know?

What is disturbing is the "margain of error" these kids or given now while the likes of Wade taylor jeff johnson etc was cast away to the wolves after having great numbers in the Minors. Instead of people saying wow we are overexcited about our youth lets keep our fingers cross , instead people say these kids are the next great event since peep shows and will talk you down if you disagree.

I feel fortunate that I did have a coffee talk with Brian Cashman and while not in detail i felt his concern for the situation but RESPECTED him for saying it's his doing and ready for whatever comes his way. He said he was appreciative of the supporters

As for a replacement IF anything happens Gene Michael would be a strong canidate while he had issues with George such is not the case with The kids who have supreme respect for him.

Rick then I guess the TEAM SUCKS since Arod is not in the Lineup and this includes Captain Clutch according to your above post

Last I checked, Ruse, 3 years from today Phil Hughes will be 24 years old. So yeah, that's way too old for him to continue to mature and develop into a good number 2 starter.

Ruse -

boss has you there. Look, there are two options here. Either suffer the slings and arrows of developing young players, or go out and bring in old, expensive veterans. We've tried the latter, it's time for the former. Not every player is going to come out of the minors firing on all cylinders like Jeter did. Some guys are going to take time to develop, like Bernie.

Rick -

Everytime you talk about how the team is better off without Alex you make me more and more convinced of your ignorance about all things baseball.

I remember saying something similar last year, but remember post ASB, the Yankees schedule was pretty weak, and many of us were saying they need a 23-6 run or something like that. Well, I just looked at the June schedule, and if the Yankees could stay close to .500 entering June, they could possibly rattle off a great month with A-rod and Posada back. That said, this may be dependent upon whether or not they are actually a decent team. If they don't have it in them, expect a real long season. But if they do, they could use it to catipult themselves into a great summer - much like last year's July did for them.
Could be just a pipedream, though.

Bomber, I saw a car on base this morning with a license plate BRXBMBR. You're not driving around Va Beach today, are you? That said, I'm certainly not giving any greater margin of error for these kids than for anyone else. If it was up to me, they would develop more of their repertoire in SWB. But since there is no other option right now, we have no choice than to put up with what it is, even if it means 88-90 wins and no playoffs. If I recall correctly, the Sox missed the playoffs in 2006 and they ended up having a decent year in '07, right???

Hughes will be 22 this June 08 .3 yrs 25 4yrs 26 .I do my homework!

No vast improvements by the end of next yr the Yanks will resort to trades and FA.

Nudge,

It would be a pleasure to have you for a neighbor. If you're serious about coming out here, there are a ton of houses for sale with lots of free upgrades. The drivers $uck out here also, but they DO stop for pedestrians and are mindful of runners and bikers. However, you may want to rethink the running and biking stuff in 110 degree weather. It was HOT yesterday and it's not even June yet.
Congratulations to Jon Lester for his no-no. Nicely done. Great catch by Ellsbury.
As for the Yanks, they'll start winning when they start hitting.

Ruse - in the last 5 years there have been 4 quality pitchers in their prime who have been available in trade (Beckett, Santana, Bedard, Haren) - the biggest FA pitchers have been Zito and Andy and Dice.

Good young pitchers do not hit the open market anymore. Look at the free agent pitchers this year. Outside of Sabathia and possibly Yu Darvish (both of whom have their own questions) you have a lot of nothing. Ben Sheets, Derek Lowe, Randy Wolf, Curt Schilling.

To win in this league you have to develop pitching, that's all there is to it. And developing pitching takes time and patience.

Not with a New staduim and the DEMAND OF NEW YORK CITY will this team turn their backs on a possible 2 losing seasons just so they can figure out two unprovens in New york you cannot and will not jeopardize your business. we are not the Investors (well some could differ ) and alot of us are not the every day paying fan. the demand in New York is high I don't care what anyone says the Demand to win and the pressure to win is high meaning the mental makeup of a player here would have to elevate quicker.

Bossroots-

Naah , I am at the Staduim right now so unless you seen me in some speed demon I doubt it was me.

The stage in NY is higher than Boston and with the opening of a New staduim trust me there is already unhappy people walking around here i n regards to the current staduim they wil lbe extra angry if a bunch of dead beats is on the mound

That's why I said "3 years from today". On May 20, 2011, he will be 24. And what's a vast improvement? If Hughes goes 3-12 with a 8.77 this year and next year goes 6-10 with a 7.25, is that a vast improvement. He doubled his wins.

Bomber

Exactly!

Bosstrots

I'm thinking Hughes goes 13-9 14-9 next yr I'd take 10-10 if there were signs he is gettin it done.
Same more or less applies to Kennedy.Like I said it would be disappionting to NY fans and Yankee management if it were anything less than that.

Chip

WOW!!! One of us is truly is ignorant of all thing baseball. Did you read what I wrote???? Where did I say anything remotely li