Gameday Live 21: Yankees-White Sox
12:01 a.m.
It's over, and without another pitching change, so that's good. Nice win for the Yanks. Now I'm off to bed. You can catch me tomorrow, and everyday, at The Final Score.
11:54 p.m.
You just knew Farnsworth couldn't have an easy inning.
Solo home run by A.J. Pierzynski (a Long Islander!) cuts the Yankees' lead to 9-5 with one out.
11:48 p.m.
Kyle Farnsworth is coming in to close out the game with a 9-4 lead.
So........ worried yet?
Kidding. I think.
11:33 p.m.
Guess I was wrong about Joba. He's already in the game, so might as well get him some more work. But what about his innings limit! LOL.
Did you see they subbed Alberto Gonzalez in to play third and moved Ensberg over to 1B for Giambi, for defensive purposes. So that should answer your question, Chip.
11:27 p.m.
Now that's a positive sign for the Yankees, and their lagging bats. Johnny Damon just crushed a home run into the rightfield stands, his second extra-base hit of the night. I'd make the case that Damon is as vital to the Yankee offense as anyone else short of A-Rod, because he really does set the tone at the top of the lineup by taking pitches and, when he's on, hitting extra-base hits. It's easy to forget that two years ago he had 35 doubles, 5 triples and 24 home runs.
Yankees now lead the White Sox, 9-4, and it seems to me that Joba can take the rest of the night off, and Mo can stop stretching...
And, Chip, I won't hold it against you if you turn in...
11:12 p.m.
We're going to the eighth inning here, the Yankees are leading 6-4 and we presumably will see Joba again in the eighth and then Mariano in the ninth. Should be interesting.
So, I'm wondering who's still around. Let's do a roll call. Who's blogging along with me here?
11:09 p.m.
It's so weird to see Joba fail. After a strikeout, he just walked in a run. It's still a 6-4 lead for the Yankees, and Juan Uribe just popped out to end the inning. But it's still weird to see him not be completely lights out.
11:00 p.m.
Okay, if you've watched this game from the start, and I suspect many of you reading this blog have, this moment is where it's all worth it.
Bases loaded, one out, and the White Sox are threatening to cut into the Yankees' 6-3 lead.
It's Joba time!!!!
10:56 p.m.
Okay, so imagine this situation taking place in August. The Yankees have a 6-3 lead and they can't think about going to Joba Chamberlain because - guess what? - he's in the rotation. So now they have to sit through Billy Traber walking the leadoff guy, Brian Bruney walking the next guy, and now what? What are your options? They haven't showed the bullpen, but Joba has to be warming at this point... Another baserunner and I'd go to him for two innings.
And, on cue, Joba is warming...
10:36 p.m.
Well how about that.
Dotel strikes out Jeter - which shocked me as you can imagine - but then Bobby Abreu hits a grand slam into the first row of the leftfield stands. Wow.
But here's what I love the most about this:
Today was a rare day when the Mets and Yankees both played games in Chicago. Doesn't happen often, as you'd imagine. And now they had a grand slam in both games.
Ronny Cedeno of the Cubs hit a grand slam earlier today against the Mets.
It's not two perfect games, but it's still pretty cool.
BTW Yanks lead 6-3.
10:29 p.m.
Amazingly, I have the Yankees at 3-for-9 with runners in scoring position tonight, which would make you think they would have more than two runs on the scoreboard. But obviously that's not the case.
Anyway, here's a big spot. Bases loaded, one out and Dotel is coming in to face Derek Jeter.
I like Jeter's chances, not because he's Jeter, but because he's facing Dotel.
Dotel on the season: 5 IP, 7 H, 3 ER, 4 BB, 7 K. He hasn't been the same since Tommy John surgery in '05.
10:23 p.m.
Ha! Octavio Dotel is warming. The Yankees have to be drooling in anticipation.
10:19 p.m.
Wow, give Wang credit. He deserves it for getting out of it. Now, his night is done.
Wang's final line (unofficial): 6 IP, 10 H, 3 ER, 2 BB, 5 K, 106 pitches.
So... over/under for Yankees runs tonight: 4.
What do you guys take?
I'll take the under.
10:15 p.m.
Now this gets interesting. White Sox, who are ahead 3-2, have men on first and second with one out in the bottom of the sixth with the top of their lineup coming up. One of the most fascinating aspects of watching a new manager such as Joe Girardi is to see how he handles the bullpen, and here's another situation to note. Wang is still pitching, but he's over 100 pitches and the White Sox are one big hit from breaking this open.
10:11 p.m.
Wow, shows what I know. Wang goes back out there. And what I failed to realize is that the White Sox have their bottom of the order coming up, as Michael Kay just pointed out. So it makes sense that the Yankees try to squeeze another inning out of him.
10:00 p.m.
So maybe I jinxed Wang there by posting his line before the fifth. So, yes, you can blame me. That's fine. But that's got to be it for Wang. If you're the Yankees, you've got to be happy you got five innings from Wang and he only allowed three runs on a night when he clearly did not have his best stuff. The White Sox now lead, 3-2, on Paul Konerko's double, but Wang saved his pitching line by striking out Jermaine Dye and getting A.J. Pierzynski to ground out - leaving two in scoring position.
9:49 p.m.
We're midway through the fifth. Here's the pitching lines so far:
Contreras: 5 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 3 K, 75 pitches
Wang: 4 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 73 pitches
9:44 p.m.
So here we are in the top of the fifth of a 2-2 game and I'm wondering, how do you guys feel about Jose Contreras? Do you wish the Yankees could have gotten more out of him? Or gotten more for him than Esteban Loaiza? Or was it just not going to happen for him in New York and the Yankees needed to cut the cord.
I believe New York didn't agree with him. I also believe Joe Torre could have gotten more out of Loaiza.
9:37 p.m.
Surprise! Cano left stranded.
9:32 p.m.
What an odd 2-2 game. Both pitchers are getting hit hard, but neither team can really take advantage of baserunners. And, egg on my face for questioning Cano. Nice double there. Let's see if the Yanks can drive him in.
9:22 p.m.
The way the White Sox are hitting Wang so hard, it's actually amazing he has only given up two runs. Paul Konerko just flew out to the wall in leftfield and Jermaine Dye crushed a double to deep centerfield. You can just tell this will be on those bullpen games.
9:08 p.m.
White Sox just tied it up at 2 on Juan Uribe's two-run double to leftfield in the second inning. I have Wang at 48 pitches through two innings, so it appears the Yankees will be reaching into their bullpen early tonight.
8:58 p.m.
The way Paul O'Neill has handled this number issue is not sitting well with me - it almost seems as if he's touched the Yankees fans BOOED someone for wearing his old number. And, BTW, they're rocketing Wang's pitches here in the second.
8:49 p.m.
Earlier today Anthony and I debated who is hurting his team more: Delgado with the Mets or Giambi with the Yankees. Here's the debate. I argued Delgado is hurting the Mets more, and I'd say I'm looking better and better by the hour.
Delgado stunk it up today for the Mets. He popped out with men on early in the game, and then had a bigtime brain cramp in the field that eventually cost the Mets two runs.
And Giambi just hit an opposite field home run.
Yanks 2, White Sox 0.
Baumbach 8, Rieber 0.
8:45 p.m.
Not the smoothest first inning for Chien-Ming Wang, but he got the ground balls when he needed them, and that's a good sign for the Yankees. We're scoreless through one. And, for what it's worth, 21 games into the season and I'm already sick of that Joba Chamberlain commercial on YES.
8:34 p.m.
Chip mentioned this first, so I'll credit him. The way the YES Network picks its broadcasters for Yankees games reminds me of one of those revolving doors in hotels. It just keeps moving, and every three games we have a new crew. It's a three-man crew for this series with Kay, Cone and O'Neill. What do you guys think of Cone and O'Neill?
BTW, more from Rieber:
- Dave Winfield played 2 games at 3B with Yanks in 1986. No chances
- Yogi Berra played 1 game at 3B in 1954. One chance, made the play.
- Wade Boggs played one game in left with the Red Sox in 1982. Caught the only fly ball hit his way.
8:29 p.m.
Somewhat disappointing inning there for the Yankees. Three hits, including a leadoff double by Johnny Damon - his fifth in 2008 - and the Yankees only scored once against Jose Contreras.
They had two on with two out, but Robinson Cano struck out. You guys worried about Cano yet? Three extra-base hits and three walks in 81 plate appearances. Yikes.
8:25 p.m.
More from Rieber:
He said Joe DiMaggio played one game at 1B in 1950, his second to last season. Babe Ruth never played anything but OF, 1B or P. Lou Gehrig played one game at SS in 1934. "Must have been one inning. I'd love to know the story behind that!"
Imagine a lefthander playing SS? Crazy.
8:20 p.m.
So after the Mets game ended, I turned off my laptop for a while to visit my parent's dog. It's the dog I grew up with, and unfortunately she's getting old fast. So it's quality time, if you will. I mention this because while I was out I missed some news - Anthony Rieber just msged me about how Albert Pujols played second base for the Cardinals today.
How funny is it that the genius Tony LaRussa ran out of players?!?!
Who would imagine that happening...
Anyway, that peaked Anthony's interest in other Hall of Famers playing out of position (because Pujols is on a HOF pace right now). So check out Mickey Mantle:
1952 3B 1 game
1953 SS 1 game
1954 SS 4 games
1954 2B 1 game
1955 SS 2 games
He said he got this info from baseball-reference.com. Pretty nuts, eh?
BTW, Yankees just took the lead. Johnny Damon doubled down the rightfield line, moved to third on Bobby Abreu's single and scored on Hideki Matsui's groundout.
8:12 p.m.
Hi all. Baumbach here for Game 2 of my doubleheader. Earlier I blogged the Mets-Cubs game. I'll tell you, the toughest thing about blogging the games off the television is resisting the urge to use my DVR. Typically I pause the games so much that I'm usually a half hour behind the real game by the time it ends. But obviously that's no use to you.
Anyway....
You can see the news and the lineup posted below. About tonight's game, the biggest things I'm intrigued about is how Chien-Ming Wang bounces back from that awful start against the Red Sox and how Jorge Posada does throwing to second.
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Comments (87)
Jim,
I'm more interested in whether or not a day off will give some life to the Yankees' dead bats.
Oh, and yet another new broadcasting group for the YES Network - Paulie, Kay, Cone. I'm curious if they will ever use the same group for consecutive series. I'm also curious if the plan is to hire everyone who ever played for the Yankees.
I would love to hear that trio right now. I'm stuck listening to Hawk Harrelson for the next three days.
The worst broadcaster in MLB. It's not even close.
As bas as Michael Kay is, he's Mel Allen or Red Barber by comparison.
This is classic (from the last thread):
Mike Mussina, who Steinbrenner said should pitch more like Jamie Moyer, said: "He can say whatever he wants, it's fine. ... I'm not going to get in some verbal argument with somebody because it's useless."
Observations:
1) Steinbrenner will continue to shoot his mouth off just to make headlines;
2) He is right.
3) Moose is too stubborn to make adjustments.
It's going to be a long year.
Viper, over the weekend I was in DC and watched two of the games on their station (I went to one at Camden) and listening to Thorne and Palmer was a real pleasure by comparison.
There are some broadcasting groups for the Yankees that are so annoying I just listen on the radio - Sterling and Suzyn are irritating but at least they are constant.
I said it earlier in the season - this is one area that the Mets have the Yankees beat cold.
Chip,
I listened to the Palmer/Thorne duo the other night myself. I think they are one of the better duos of all the Yankee opponents.
Doesn't seem like there are many good broadcast teams these days.
Jim,
No worries about Cano - he started slow last year too. He might just be another Bernie Williams in that respect.
I have no problem with any of the YES broadcasters except for Kay. The rest do a good job.
I think Al Leiter is the most underrated of the bunch.
I was never a fan of David Justice in the booth but he's gone now.
BTW, Hawk Harrelson just had his David Cone moment:
"The Sox really need to make Wang get it up."
Jim,
I like O'Neill - I think he has good chemistry with Kay. Not a fan of Cone - his voice is just too soft for the work, doesn't really cut through - kind of similar to Leiter that way. I'm sure they have interesting tidbits to offer but you can't hear them.
I think from a technical standpoint Flash is the best.
If it were me I would probably go with Kay - Singleton - Flaherty use Cone in studio and Paulie for a couple of series a year.
See that? Good things happen when Giambi goes to the opposite field.
I agree that Cone's voice isn't strong enough on the television, but he sounds better tonight than he did during the KC series.
Wang is pitching up in the zone waaaaaay too much.
Get on it, Eiland.
I'm just a big, fat blowhard buffoon who talks just to see my name and fat face in the papers. Sound a little like my dad? Fatheads.
Any news on Bobby Murcer? I mean he was supposed to be back for opening day at one point and here we are 21 games into the season and no Bobby. I hope he's okay.
O'Neill went to the same school as Jeter and Posada did when it comes to dealing with the fans.
They never want to be seen as criticizing the fans or their behavior in any way.
It was Jeter and Posada who told Hawkins to change his number.
well if it is an early pen night do they go to Ohlendorf again? All the talk coming into the season was about monitoring the innings of Joba/Hughes/Kennedy - but at some point they are also going to have to watch Ohlendorf's work load out of the pen.
Incidentally, with all the Joba flap we touched on it briefly - if the Yankees wanted to move a reliever into the rotation Ohlendorf has starter experience and is much more stretched out than Joba at this point.
I really like Ohlendorf but I don't see him getting any starts.
His fastball and slider improved significantly after his conversion from a starter to reliever last June and I don't think the Yanks are going to convert him back.
They view him as the eventual 8th inning set up guy rather than a starter.
I don't care for O'Neil most of the time, but he can be funny. Of all the announcers, he has the best one liners and zingers.
David Cone doesn't have the best announcer voice, but he is the most knowledgeable of any announcer I've heard in a long time. When he starts explaining things, I listen.
Jim,
Funny you should mention Torre and Loiaza - the two of them are having issues in LA.
As for Contreras - I don't know. I would hesitate to blame pressure on his failure in NY - I mean the guy pitched for Fidel Castro - that has to be more intense than even The Boss.
I think some of the blame has to go to Torre and Mel. To me it seemed that Mel wasn't as great a pitching coach as he was a handler of good veteran pitchers. Weaver, Contreras, Loiaza - it just seemed to me that when these guys had issues they were left to figure them out for themselves and if they couldn't they were sent on their way.
Not to get off topic completely but my last comment about Torre and Mel brought something up to me.
When Joe left here the general feeling was that he wasn't the best in game manager but he was a great manager of people. I'm not so sure how true that is. I think a more accurate statement would have been he was a great manager of HIS people - and I'm not making some statement like Sheffield did calling Torre a racist - but I just think Torre and Mel had their guys and everyone else was left on their own.
For example - Andy and Clemens had a great relationship with Mel, but he couldn't do anything to help guys like Weaver, Contreras, Loiaza (who all had different levels of success both before and after leaving NY) I think Mel had one plan for all his pitchers and if you didn't fit into that mold he didn't know how to work with you.
Torre always supported Jeter, Bernie, Paulie, but how often did he throw A-Rod under the bus with one comment or another? He yanked around the playing time of his pitchers and then acted shocked when they lacked command. He pulled pitchers the minute they got into trouble and blamed them for trying to be too perfect each subsiquent time out.
Is this something anyone else thought or am I a little nuts over here?
Chip: Torre and Loaiza are having issues in LA? I haven't seen that. I must read those stories... Good stuff. Jim
BTW, it was a good omen to see Wang go 6 IP even though he wasn't great.
Yanks are 9-0 on the young season when their starter goes at least 6.0 IP.
Jim,
Here's a link to one of the stories on it. From what I gather reading it, it comes down to that Loiaza was named the fifth starter out of spring training but feels that Torre never gave him the chance to pitch and then when he did pitch he wasn't sharp, as a result he wasn't good, and right after that bad start Torre bumped him from the rotation.
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/ci_8908113
I've said it earlier and I'm standing by it - this is going to be a monster year for Abreu.
He's healthy, he's in a walk year, and he's really well protected in the lineup.
The ball must be really carrying out to LF because I didn't think there was a chance that ball hit by Abreu was going out.
Same for Giambi earlier in the game.
Hey, this Joba guy might be a pretty good reliever....might be a pretty good starter too. There should be some sort of debate about this someday....
the way David Cone answered that question about whether Joba should be in the rotation or not makes me think Cone would have made one heck of a politician.
this is the first time I've been on from first pitch and I've invested this much time I might as well stay all the way through - though I won't be proud of myself in the morning.
He practically was a politician, Chip.
He was one of the go-to guys during his playing days, especially during the whole strike fiasco in 1994.
He's always been a media guy.
Hey Jim,
They just made a point on the broadcast that with Ensberg starting at 3rd for Alex the Yankees really don't have anyone to back up him or Giambi at first. Now that Posada is back behind the plate, do you think they send Moeller out and bring up Ransom or Nick Green?
Isn't Duncan available to come up any day now? The first day he's available, I bet they get him up here. Though I'm not sure they can DFA Moeller until they get Molina back.
They could use Gonzalez at 3B if they needed him and Posada at 1B.
Not ideal, but it would work for one game until they can promote someone else the next day.
thought Molina was back - I know he caught a game in Baltimore - did he re-strain the hamstring?
I thought about Duncan, but he doesn't really help if they need someone to back-up Ensberg at 3rd.
Viper -
I was watching the game where Posada started at first in Baltimore and it got me thinking - if Giambi continues to struggle, and Molina plays well - would the Yankees move Posada to first and use Molina/Moeller as a catching tandem? Would a move of Posada to first prompt them to kick the tires on Piazza?
Well I guess that answers that - the Yankees for defense put Alberto in at 3rd and slid Ensberg to first.
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize Molina had played. So, yes, then it makes sense. Moeller gets DFA'd for Duncan when Duncan becomes eligible.
Great blog as always, Kat! Who do they go to in the 9th? Hawkins? Farnsworth? Ohlendorf?
sounds like a good plan to me (provided they give Duncan some at bats up here on a regular basis)
I was just talking to a buddy of mine about this. The two main targets for the Yankees this winter will probably be Sabathia and Teixeira - but if they could only get one of them which one would you want?
Normally I would say Sabathia because of the premium on pitching, but watching what's happened to Colon I'm not sure how Sabathia will hold up in his 30s - then again he could be David Wells who was really effective into his 40s.
Tex, at 29 to start next season, could anchor 1st and him and A-Rod hitting back-to-back would be very tough to match.
Chip,
Girardi said the other day that he wasn't going to make a habit out of putting Posada at 1B.
Of course, circumstances change so I guess he could change his mind.
I think Moeller will be gone within the next week or so, but they aren't going to let him go until they are absolutely sure that both Molina and Posada are 100% healthy.
I still say Giambi is going to get hurt sooner or later if he stays out there at 1B because he always does. That problem will end up taking care of itself one of these days.
Just looked at Scranton's stats. Duncan has played 13 games there. So he's definitely been down for the required 10 days. I guess the Yankees just want to be 100 percent sure Posada and Molina are fine before potentially losing Moeller on waivers. But it should be any day now.
Sounds good Viper.
Alright, I'm heading off but I'm going to leave with one more question - there's again debate about the DH (and it's not going anywhere because the Union would never allow it) but how about this for a rule:
Both the AL and NL get the DH - but when your starting pitcher comes out of the game you lose your DH and pitchers have to hit in his spot. I think that makes the game much more strategic - because not only are you lifting your pitcher, but you're also taking a bat out of your lineup - so do you stick with a struggling pitcher in hopes that your offense can pick him up? Do you lift him early and just use pinch hitters to get you through the game?
Since we're talking about potential call-ups....any news on Scott Patterson?
JJ
Patterson has thrown 7 innings, given up 7 hits, 3 walks and 6 strikeouts with a 4.70 ERA.
So in effect we have two teams.
The team that shows up when Wang and Pettitte pitch.
And the team that shows up when everyone else pitches.
Ruse,
Colby Rasmus was the star of Team USA and is ranked as the 4th best baseball prospect in the world.
Why would we want a player like that? Sure, great question! Did you actually ever play the game? High school? Any very good universities recruit you? Or do you just follow from TV and the Internet?
You think Ludwick can't hit? Ever seen him at bat? He's like a ravenous wolf. No fear. And when he gets a hold of it, it's gone ... Ankiel too!
The Cashman archetypes have an aversion to nice looking, real American, All-American, clean cut, role model type players for our youth. (I wonder why ...)
And why would we want the best arm and bat speed in the game via Josh Hamilton?
That's why we can't win ... we don't have the best small ball talent. IE: Knoblauch, O'Neil, Tino, Scotty B., Girardi as a player, then the lefty arms of Key, Wells, Stanton ...
Time to get back to what made the team great ... sure we can have Wang and Matsui for marketing and money, but the major focus of the scouts should be on premium USA players ... Oswalt, Halladay, Holliday ... find those guys ...
And bring in some tough guys like Sheff and Brandon Phillips, people with no fear ... we need some energy and backbone.
It seems some of you guys like the blog when watching the game. I guess that I'm one dimensional and just watch. Well, all my bad mouthing Damon and Giambi came back to hitting me in the $$$. But, its only one night and Jason continues to look bad at first base and can't catch up to fastballs on the inside of the plate. The pitch he hit for a HR looked like a badly performing splitter to the outside part of the plate. The ball hit by AJ P. was actually past him but his throwing hand deflected it. He tries but its more like floundering than fielding. If he gets hot, I'd prefer him at DH. Play Posada at first give him rest and more playing time for Molina behind the plate. Ensberg has a good bat and could do a credibile job at first.
Damon is the one guy who can turn it around between him and Giambi. Hopefully, tonight is the start of him turning it around.
It seem to me the Girardi has a definite feel for this team and trust for all his players in certain situations. Unlike Joe T.. who had a roster of about 20 players. Maybe Giradi's patience inspite of the bellowing from Hank will show his mettle to the organization, players and the fans. And just maybe we'll get rolloing on another string of WS victories with a new nucleus bulstered by some of the older core of players.
can't they realease Wilson and send Moeller to the Minors?
holding on to dead weight is crazy especially since Moeller has been productive. again stupidity on part of the brain trust.
Anon: Wilson is on the DL. So not an issue at this time. He's one reserve who could move into second or short for a two week period and perform credibile for Jeter and Cano. IMHO.
Larry: The guy sucks point blank and prooved to be dead weight that is the reason AG is up here due to Wilson poor play he had his chance when Jeter was hurt and failed entirely
8:58 p.m.
The way Paul O'Neill has handled this number issue is not sitting well with me - it almost seems as if he's touched the Yankees fans BOOED someone for wearing his old number. And, BTW, they're rocketing Wang's pitches here in the second.
Very good point Kat!!!
Betemit has a serious eye condition which has inhibited his ability to see the ball.He's not as bad as he 's looked in the early going.
Girardi replaced Giambi for defense last night moving the inexperienced Ensberg over from 3B and Gonzalez to 3B .Gonzalez has never or very rarely played 3B and Ensberg who is learning how to play 1B.Speaks volumes.
ruse - at some point last night (I was enjoying a few adult beverages while watching the game and blogging - talk about multitasking) I mentioned that a buddy and I were talking about who we would prefer between Tex and Sabathia if the Yankees could only sign one of them. At the time I came down on the side of Tex because of Sabathia's build and the fact that Tex and A-Rod would be a great tandem in the lineup.
But I started thinking about it some more after Gonzalez came into the game last night. If the Yankees miss out on Tex how would you feel about shifting Cano to first and playing Gonzalez at 2nd. I'm not sure he'll hit a lot at this level but he would be a huge defensive upgrade.
Funny...the Yanks score 9 runs...without AR!!!
Hey Rick - against Boston they scored 15 runs with him.
just out of curiosity are you going to continue rambling about Arod for the next 10 years?
Hey Chip
Are you?
Rick - difference between our ramblings on Alex is that you keep trying to say that the team is better off without him - I got news for you. Not only is the team better with him than without him but when all is said and done, his number 13 will be retired along with Munson's, Mantle's, Jeter's, Mattingly's and all the other great Yankees.
----------------------------------------------------
BTW with his win last night CM Wang is the fastest Yankee ever to reach 50 wins.
His overall record 50 - 18 3.75 ERA. He may not fit the ACE mold, but I think he qualifies
Good teams should be able to win without their best player(s) from time to time.
Strange stat
lefties are hitiing .333 5-15 off Traber .Another Mike Myers?
CHIP
If Gonzalez can hit .285 and learn to drive the ball yes maybe it's not a bad idea.Right now I'm not sure NY knows exactly what kind of offensive player AG will be.
CHIP
Also NY has Juan Miranda at Scranton,if he can put up the same type numbers he did last season he would have to be considered a prime candidate for 1B next yr.
Anon 8:19: It was Jim Baumbach who made the point about O'Neill and "21Gate", not Kat.
Good game last night, nice to see some long ball and small ball and it was nice to see Wang fight through a start when he didn't have his best stuff. It seems like he is usually very good or very bad so maybe this is a little boost for him to fight through nights when he is not at his best.
Ant: Nobody disagrees with you that Ludwick, Ankiel and Hamilton are good players, however they ARE NOT AVAILABLE! Why do you keep insisting the Yanks just go and get them?
Prospects are a crap shoot and I'm sure the Yanks scouting dept. is working very hard to find that next Ludwick etc. but they don't exactly grow on trees.
Chip,
Guidry beat Wang to the 50 win mark. Wang did it in his 85th game and Gator in his 82nd.
ruse -
I think the Traber stat is probably just an anomaly of sample size. Then again I think the age of the lefty specialist is going to start dwindling. Fewer teams pull their left handed hitters against left handed pitchers and so facing a left handed relief pitcher isn't as much of a change.
So based on Miranda and Gonzo - let me ask you, Tex or Sabathia?
Both are going to command about 20 over 7 years
Sabathia (28 entering next season) would fill a need in the rotation (assuming departures by Moose and Andy) but he could go the way of Bartolo Colon
Tex (29 entering next season) would slot into Abreu's spot in the lineup and give the Yankees gold glove defense at 1st
Jim -
Then I'm blaming ESPN for some bad info - Baseball Tonight was talking about how he was the fastest Yankee to reach 50 wins - and I apologize for passing on bad info.
Just saw the funniest commercial. It's for some new sneaker that A-rod is promoting.
He is fielding ground balls and each time there are more and more little leaguers fielding with him and he keeps beating them to the ball, then there is a pop up, A-Rod is going for it and someone yells "HA" Alex looks away, the kid catches the ball - Alex looks at him and shakes his head.
Chip - How about moving Jeter to 1st and have Gonzo at SS. That would improve the infield D exponentially. Jeter cant play SS for much longer. In 2-3 years our lineup would be…
Gardner - CF
Jeter - 1B
Cano - 2B
Arod - 3B
Posada - C
Melk - RF
Miranda/Shelly - DH
Jackson - LF
Gonzo - SS
CC
Joba
Phil
Wang
Ian
That team would not lead the league in runs, but would be great defensively, have tons of speed on the bases and possibly be a dominate staff. Again, the above lineup assumes much with the young hitters and pitchers.
DRU
In 2/3 yrs Duncan will no longer be w/ the team and Abreu will still be in RF and Tex might be playing 1B w/ Miranda DHing
Dru -
I think that the odds of Jeter moving off short are very very small.
Ruse -
I'm torn on Abreu. On the one hand I think he's going to have a HUGE season. On the other hand I think he's going to want a long term big money deal and I'm not sure the Yankees are going to give it to him.
I could see next season's lineup being:
LF - Damon
CF - Melky
SS - Jeter
3B - A-rod
RF - Matsui
C - Posada
1B - Cano
DH - Duncan
2B - Gonzo
Ruse - I agree with you, I think Teix and Abreu will be with the team next year. I was just playing along with Chip's scenario of going with CC over Teix if we couldnt sign both.
The thing is we need to address the Jeter situation. Either he moves to 1B or to the OF in the next 3 years, with the way Gonzo flashes the leather, I would rather it be sooner. So maybe we sign Teix and CC but not Abreu, then move Jeter to the OF???...just throwing out some possible options.
Chip, we cant continue to ignore Jeter at SS. We really need tighter D there in the long run. If Jeter is going to get to Pete Rose's hit record ( on pace to do that ), he needs another 10 years with the Yanks, no way he's playing short that many years. So we either need to move him, or he goes somewhere else..so yeah, I think moving him is the only real option long term.
jeter is not the weakest link in the infield (3b ss,2b) your boy at 2nd is
Chip the team needs both unless a bat in the minors proove to be that sturdy hitter and fielder
Chip,
I'd go w/ Sabathia. He's a power lefty and they don't come along very often and there are always first basemen available, they may not all be as perfect as Tex seems to be, but there are adequate solutions around, even in house as I like Dru's idea of moving Jeter to first.
While it's true that Sabathia could go the way of Colon, at 29 Tex could go the way of Giambi. You just never know.
Abreu 3 to 4 yr deal no other team will offer big bucks to him .
Ruse -
I can think of a couple of teams that would be hot for Abreu's services - starting with the boys in Queens. Even if they aren't, I'm not sure signing Abreu into his mid/late 30s is such a great idea.
The Met thing is a pretty interesting scenario - like the Yankees they are going to be in the market for an OF, 1b, SP. Like the Yankees they are going to clear a lot of salary (Delgado, Alou, Pedro) and like the Yankees they are going to move into a new park with a lot of added revenue. It's possible the two teams will be going after all the same players.
Dru -
I agree that Jeter's defense is obviously a weakness - I'm just not sure that anyone will ever broach the subject of moving him. At least not for Alberto Gonzalez. To me, moving Jeter is akin to giving out O'Neill's 21 - yeah you can do it, but you can't do it for just anyone. The person who takes that spot has to be a long term solution and someone who can be as popular as Derek.
i cannot believe the mess I'm reading now people or actually questioning Jeter's D???? Cano is the one who may need to be switched
Anon - if you have been watching the Yanks over the past several years you would have seen Jeter's D is getting worse. Its not that he makes a ton of errors, but his range is one of the worst in the league. Your SS has to be one of, if not THE, best defender on the diamond. If you have been watching the Yanks over the past 3 years you would have seen that Cano has improved each year. Dont take his laid back style as a lack of effort. Enough talk though, the proof is in the numbers...look at the fielding %
Jeter
2007 - .970
2006 - .975
2005 - .979
Cano
2007 - .984
2006 - .984
2005 - .975
Notice anything? Also, Cano has one of the strongest arms at 2B and a quick release on double plays..he's not the issue here.
Chip, I hear what you're saying, but I just dont agree. I think its unrealistic to expect another HOF caliber SS to take Jeter's place. What's best for the team over the next several years is to get a great fielding SS..if he can swing a bat as well..bonus.
I hope jeter leaves when his contract is up becasue this is pure crap coming from a bunch of ____. The man still has range and no he is not the new youth movement but he still an above average SS
Anon: I have to agree in part with your comment. Jeter is not a liability at SS, this year. We should take it year to year after 2008. I believe Jeter will know when its time to move off SS. His injuries will be more frequent and his throws more erratic but right now. I'd take him if he wasn't on my team already.
As far as renewing contract, the Yankees must be careful. He'll be 36, I believe and our senior players will be mounting up on the roster and so will their fan valued contracts.
On Abreu I'd offer him an excellent $$$ contract for 1 year with a team option buyout. He would be a dynamic DH. This would be after Mussina and Giambi are given their walking papers.
I believe Jeter could play a great first base or third. And CC offered a FA contract keeping a lefty in Yankee stadium is a necessity with Andy Pettite coming back for another year as our number 4/5 starter. The Yanks can be a force rather quickly with sticking with the plan at hand and some good FA signings.
Anon, Im not saying he's the worst in the league, Im not saying that he needs to be moved this year...If Jeter continues his downward trend, then he will be a liability at SS in "2-3 years". I love Jeter as much as any Yankee fan, but you have to see what's happening and what is best for the team in the long term. Players move to different positions all the time in roder to extend their careers. When Yogi Berra turned 32, they started to move him to the OF. By 35, he played more OF than C. Go look up Pete Rose's career. He started his career as a 2B, then moved to OF, then to 3B and finished his career as a 1B. What makes Jeter any different?
Jeter is far more athlethic than pete rose far more jeter downside is better than rose's upside in my eyes jeter is cal ripken at least and until he is a log out there, SS is his castle
WOW..."jeter downside is better than rose's upside in my eyes" well you better get your eyes checked. Speaking of Cal, he was moved to 3B when he was 35-36...how old is Jeter again? 34, so lets say in another 2-3 years we move him...sound about right?
DRU
That sounds about right.He'll become more of versatile player getting ABs at DH,SS,1B.He's probably got 4 more good yrs counting this one left in him ,but I could see him playing until he's 40-41 if he stays healthy and he still has passion for the game.
jeter is a better player than pete rose buddy.
aespecially at this point in their careers pete rose wish he could move around in that field like Jeter does now. Jeter is a whole different class of SS along with Cal arod etc. There is nothing wrong with jeter now and there is no signs of nothing happening years from now so stop trying to be Miss Cleo and predicting the future , You probally was one of those people who thought Hughes would have some wins by now on way to ROY award. CY YOUNG etc. (lol) Yes I am Jeter Bias and I don't care jeter is the Man!!! SS like him or Arod is very hard to come by. Alex Gonzales better play his role and continue to Caddy Jeter's glove he will get SS position until Jeter says otherwise. All in good fun DRU
CALL ME KNOW!!!
I bet you have Jeter underwear on, named your 1st child Derek ( a girl ), drive a Ford Edge, drink gallons of Gatorade and have the #2 shaved in the back of your head.
I respect that...GO YANKS!!!
; )
LOL-
LOL jeter is my favorite EVER all around no question about it his class etc is great.
M&M is making great points regarding Joba and the reson he needs to stay in the Pen , they said to take notice on how he basically saved two games from being lost (yesturdays game would have been lost if someone else pitched) They said that Joba and MO is the best one two combo in baseball
WRONG..stop listening to those hacks. Who cares about 2 games in April. Plus nobody knows if another RP could have gotten the job done.. Joba is more valuable to us in the rotation as a #1 starter in the long run. M&M only think short term. I really wish the Yanks never put Joba in the pen last year. I wish they would have pitched him at AAA until he got his innings and he was a starter his year. Now all this BS is being thrown around. Like Ive said 1 BILLION tiimes, any great SP can pitch one inning and be dominate, lets see if Joba can get guys out over 7-8 innings. Whats more valuable? A #1 starter like Jake Peavy who takes his team into the 8th inning every day and pitches over 200 innings, winnning 20 games...or an 8th inning guy that throws 80 innings in a year and saves a dozen games?
For this year...yes Joba in the pen is the best move, for next year and the next 20? Joba in the rotation is the smart move.
No your wrong..
EVERY GAME COUINTS.
And that could have been a Joba started game that could have been WASTED away due to a crappy pen
no your wrong
lol...couldnt resist.
Our pen is not an issue, we have other options. Albaladejo, Ohlendorf, Edwar...with more guys a phone call away like Patterson or Britton, etc. Having Mo at the end of the game to shut is down is a huge luxury. I would rather mix and match the 7th and 8th innings. Having a dominate 8th inning guy means jack when Moose is getting his brains beat in in the 4th. Give me Joba over Moose in the rotation and figure out the 8th inning when with Bruney ( who has been just as good as Joba so far 1.59 ERA to 1.13 ERA ) any day. When Joba was seeing his father, we still won games so it is possible. Its not like our entire bullpen is crap without Joba, we can get by. Not many teams have dominate 7th, 8th and 9th inning guys, we would survive.
Our #1 need right now, today, is another frontline starting pitcher....Joba may be that guy, we need to find out instead of wasting him for 1 inning at a time.