We'll steer clear of the Roger Clemens talk for once. How about something that hasn't been talked about much -- first base? Are you comfortable with the options the Yankees have at first?
They've got Shelley Duncan, Jason Giambi and Wilson Betemit as primary options. Or do you think they should have re-signed Doug Mientkiewicz or gone to get another first baseman?
Sorry, again, about the posting codes. I haven't gotten anywhere yet with getting them removed.
Comments (62)
I think that Shelley is the key. Jason Giambi cannot (I repeat, cannot) play first base. He is a liability (bigger than the redsox have with Ortiz, when he plays the position). Betemit is not an everyday player, let's be real. I hope that Shelley gets some serious 1B training from Tino (not a bad thing) and if he hits .270 19HR 86RBI, I'll take that. We don't need nor can afford an All-Star in every position. I can see clearly now that giambi only has one more season with the Yanks.
I am very disappointed they let Andy Phillips walk away. I think he is the best all around player of the 4 choices and he was proving that as an everyday player last year.
Baseball America's John Manuel brings up an interesting option - a platoon between Duncan and Juan Miranda. Miranda is a strong left handed option with good pull power. He also has the advantage of being on the 40 man roster rather than the team having to go out and sign someone and then make room on the roster. The question is whether either he or Duncan can handle the position defensively well enough to stick there.
Some other roster news and notes:
The Yankees signed the following guys to minor league deals - Darrell Rasner, RHP Scott Strickland, LHP Heath Phillips, LHP Billy Traber, C Jason Brown, 2B Nick Green. None of these guys will make an impact but a couple of lefties to throw against the wall and compete with Sean Henn for that role in the pen.
personally, i've always like Doug Mientkiewicz. He is a defesnsive wizard, one of a few that has a good repour with a-rod and is an average contributor in 8th / 9th hole. betemit is a solid option as a reserve player, and duncun is a viable option as a platoon player / back-up DH. With duncan, i think yanks caught lightning in a bottle last year, as they did with shane spencer, aaron small, shawn chacon in years past. Mientkiewicz brings solid defense to the field, looks to play hard every day and contributes when possible.
(i didnt even mention giambi because he will be hurt in spring training, hurt again as he comes back in may, hurt again until end of july, and essentially placed on DL for rest of year and ending his yankee tenure come september.....not to sound pessimistic or anything - the guy is prone to be hurt all year and like pavano et. al, should be loose ends that need to be cut off. give the roster spots to the kids)
Baseball America gets a lot of press on this blog I see. How many championship teams have they put together?
Hey,
Here one for you. I just got the listing of the top ten Yankee prospects from Baseball Scientific (BS):
1. Horace Clark
2. Mike Kekich
3. Fritz Peterson
4. Bob Stanley
5. Jeremy Giambi
6. Bud Harrelson
7. Al Weiss
8. Casey Stengel
9. Jose Tabata
10. Wilfred Brimley
With the exception of that Tabata guy it looks like an exciting future for this team. I am pumped and the Sox should be worried since the new dynasty is right around the corner.
Next years pitching staff (based on over assessments made during this past year);
Darrell Rasner
Chase Wright
Tyler Clippard
Matt De Salvo
Jeff Karstens
Boy, has Cashman built up our pitching or what?
Chip
Miranda is not a lefty.
Reviewing last years pitching staff....I see there's a ....Coffee Bean that pitched. Or maybe thats Mister Bean...well it seems like he pitched like Mr Bean, 12.00 ERA and all. Then there is Sean Henn...I hear he's a real chicken. How about that Edwar Ramirez. Whats with that? Did someone steal the D from his first name? Ross Ohlendorf? Is he a pitcher or a Cross Country Skier?
Chamberlain and Kennedy....is this a baseball team or a political party? Pavano and Villone must be from the "Jersey" side of the family.
Igawa, Wang, Bruney, Britton where do they come up with these nnames.
I bet no one in the clubhouse bends over in front of some one named Proctor, huh.
About first base ...
What's going on with Menky? He roped with Minny! Is he coming back? It's like musical chairs at 1B.
What about Giambi and his foot? And his would be tumor? Is he ok?
What about Andy Phillips? He could play 1B, 3B or DH. Didn't he care for his wife and mother with they were sick and injured. Why cut him? The team needs role players and moral human beings.
Thank you for the non Clemens talk. He's disgusting, as I said, throwing the broken bat at Piazza, trying to kill him with the ball, arrested at his son's baseball game, now taping McNamee and playing the tape to the world. He's sickening. Positively sickening. And that's coming from a white Christian educated in Texas.
In other news, C-SPAN is today broadcasting an economics seminar with Perdue University graduates on a special panel.
Ross Perot is hosting.
Ross Perot: Would you rather have Ted Lilly at US$ 10 million for 15 wins or Kei Igawa for US$ 46 million posting fee plus a salary for one win and three decent outings?"
Host of SNL's "Deep Dish House" aka Viper: Oooo-ooo, pick me, I know the answer to that one! Ooooo Ross ... pick me. Mr. Perot, I know the answer! I'm Viper ... I know all ... what's wrong with US$ 46 million plus the salary for one win? Who needs Ted Lilly! Oooo-pick me!!!!!
5 weeks to spring training and NO ace, no 1B & putrid relief (esp from the left side). Hank, if you can make the Johan deal with a 5 yr extension only, jump on it. Doug M can & should be resigned at $1-1.5M (Yankee chump change) Shelley Duncan: 18 hr, 86 ribbys? WHAT!?
LOL...T-BLUE...HILARIOUS!!!! Good stuff brother!
As far as 1st base. I think its more important to have a glove there than a bat for this season, so I would love it if Wilson takes the job. As far as Shelly, the guy has serious power. I believe he won the HR derby two years ago and last year he was on an A-rod HR pace in Scranton. If he could just work hard and play a decent 1B, he would win the job easily. Shelly would help balance the lineup due to his RH bat. It would not surprise me if he hit .260...30+ HR if he gets 500 AB's. Not a bad stop gap while we wait for Teixeria next season. If we sign Johan though, I believe we are out of the Teixeria running. Due to =
Arod @ 30M
Santana @ 30M
Jeter @ 25 M
Jorge @ 15 M
Mo @ 15 M
I know we print money in the BX, but could we really afford another 25-30M in Teixeria? That would be close to 145M for 6 players! Thats more than the entire payroll of the Sox who are 2nd in the league in that cat. That would be way too much guys. Which leads me back to my point. I would rather keep the young guns and sign Mark next season than to sign Johan and have to play musical chairs at 1st.
Oh and as far as Miranda...he seems like a professional hitter...with a little league glove, future DH in this league. If we're lucky we have the next Edgar Martinez.
Dru
From what you say it sounds as though getting Texiera is an automatic if we hold off on Johan.
I agree with the logic to a point but there's no guarantee that we could get Tex just because we may have the money.
Tex is an all-star caliber corner infielder. He'll most certainly have a bevy of attractive potential suitors.
Let me paint you a scenario to illustrate...
1. We hold off on Santana and he goes to the Redsox.
2. The Redsox win another championship in '08.
3. The bidding war for Texiera begins at seasons end and he opts for slightly less money to play for the recently crowned back to back world champions in their bid for the first three-peet since um...Who was it that won 3 consecutive world series?
Somebody help me out on that one..
Dru,
I admit that scenario is slightly devilish in it's advocacy ;-) but I could absolutely see it happening.
I know it's been three months but I still enjoy our back and forth on these Santana affairs.
As do I my friend! Ok so you're throwing me a knuckle-curve with Santana going to the Red Sox and Teix taking a pay cut to go to Boston. Hmmm, let me try to foul off this offering.
1st let me start by saying BRAVO Kat in reporting that Hankenstein would not go past a 5 year extension. That makes a WORLD of a difference in this negotiation. Two things this may do.
1. Johan now has to seriously consider the Twins offer of an extension at 4/80. Maybe Johan can squeeze out another year from the Twins at 5/100 and give the home town team a discount. Or just ask for more money making it 4/100. I think the Twins would jump on either offer.
2. What I think is really going to happen ( If Johan believes that he is 100% healthy - dont forget about the 'non slider' in Sept ), is that Johan will play out the remaining year of his current deal and hit the open market. If I was Johan, why wouldnt you do this? If the current market is just 2 teams ( I really dont believe the Mets are in this ), then that limits your contract ceiling. On top of that the team that does claim him will have given up top prospects, weakening your bargaining position even further. If Johan pitches well this season, he could hit the open market next season and go to any team he wants! In that scenario, Johan would command 30per season OR MORE due to a bidding war. As much as I hate when Hankenstein opens his trap, this time it may just work out!!! This bud’s for you Hank!
Ok Mike back to your scenario. If the Sox sign Santana at 25-30M per season, what will Josh Beckett ask for in 2 years when he becomes a FA? That would be 60M for 2 pitches, no way the Sox do that then also sign on Teixeria for 20-25 M ( FYI – Mark’s agent is none other than Scott “Nosferatu” Boras, no way Teix gives ANY team a discount next season ), the Sox would never pay 3 players 80-90M over extended contracts…the Yanks would though…lol
Let me give another scenario for you to chew on…….We trade Phil and whoever else to the Twins for Johan. Phil goes to the Twins for the next 4 years. When Phil is 25, he is hitting his stride. All 4 pitches are working for him and he’s ready to dominate for the next 7 years. At that point in time Johan had his dominate stretch with the Yanks. Ill give Johan 3 dominate years to make it even ( both players dominate until 32 ), so now Johan is on the decline but will continue to collect 30M per year over the next 3 seasons. We want to resign Phil, but he feels slighted by the Yanks for trading him. He then turns around and gives the Red Sox a sweetheart deal ( Phil’s father is a die hard Sox fan ), teams up with Beckett who would be 30 and Dice-K who would also be 30, along with Bucholtz who would be 25 to give them a dominate staff! My lord, that is nightmare on River Ave Street!!!!
Mike - Im sure you have a well thought out response, unfortunately I will be in meetings for the next 4-5 hours. Talk to you then!
Jim A, I believe Dru has found a new fan in me (although HYD,Viper, yourself, and Chip still rule!).
I enjoyed the Pedro - Santana comparisons and agree that Johan, with the innings, cost, and age factored in, would probably not be worth the risk. Saw where Hank said Yanks would only offer 5 years anyway. Lets stick with our kids. They are unique, not like anything we have seen before. These guys are not the Mutts 3.
We gotta trust this. I do.
Dru Rules!
The Ugly Major league team
The Boston Red Sox have the ugliest players of any Major League team.
David Ortiz looks like a pig that belongs in a pig pen.
Dustin Pedroia looks like a person that had a bulldog take a bite out of his face.
Manny Ramirez looks like a pre historic caveman that bathes in mud instead of clear running water.
Kevin Youkelis looks like someone took a dump in his face.
Coco Crisp looks like a cartoon character.
Josh Beckett looks like a bratty kid that never learned to smile and was a mama's boy.
Mike Lowell looks like he took ugly pills all his life.
Jason Varitek looks like he came from a poor family that couldn't afford to buy toilet paper, so he used his finger for himself and his tongue for the others in his family.
Funny how all those ugly people have something 90% of the current Yankees do not have to keep them pretty!
NEW RINGS !
p.s Mike Lowell was in People Magazines top 20 most beautiful people. Not that I putt from the rough or anything.
was it your boyfriend's People magazine Anon?
Keep Doug, develop Shelley, suffer with Giambi's salary.
We were lucky to have Donnie and Tino there. They solidified the infield in ways we did not realize until Giambi took over.
This system $uck$. I have placed 1 comment in 4 days and the second one today is rejected for too many submissions.
Dru
I'd tend to agree with your response on the "curveball" I threw at you, but I just don't like not making a move, because it may or may not damage the ability to sign another player who is a free agent and not for another year at that.
Besides with all that comes off the books next year, it's not that much of stretch (at least IMO) to envision a payroll in the very high 200 million dollar range especially with the new stadium and the crazy ticket prices it will deliver.
So I disagree with you that paying (as you posted above...)
Arod @ 30M
Santana @ 30M
Jeter @ 25 M
Jorge @ 15 M
Mo @ 15 M
is impossible or would really be much of an issue.
In fact, I'll raise you Tex, Cano, and Wang's contracts
Cano@10-12?
Wang@18?
Tex@20-25?
Even then, I don't believe it wildly insane when you consider...
1. It's the Yankees we're talking about.
2. Locking down those players at that age would effectively put a team in the new stadium that on paper would have to be favorite to win it all and for a long time.
That core of players would be dominant thru the middle teens of the next decade.
Boras or not I still don't think it's safe to assume the Yanks can get any free agent they want even if they do have the biggest payroll. (Although yes, it's hard to point to a Boras client doling out a discount to anyone regardless of a hypothetical Sox 3-Peat...) Still, every player is different, and though it maybe unheard of now, it's not impossible to see a Boras client one day going where he wants for less.
The speculation we heard last season from various reports including Kat's-(who knows Tex well from their days with the Rangers)-was that Texiera's life long dream was to play for Baltimore...ewe :-(
I'm with you though about Tex...
Batting behind or in front of Alex for the next 8 yrs...
*DROOLING*
PS...
You mentioned that you don't believe Boston would be willing to pay 2 pitchers-(Beckett & Santana)-in excess of 25 million dollars each, even if they were favorites to finish '08 as winner and runner up of the Cy Young.
I disagree for the same reasons I stated above regarding the Yanks.
Payrolls go up not down and Boston knows to compete with the Evil Empire they have to spend like them.
Sure, they're probably more apprehensive than the Yanks would be throwing 20 at Tex 25 at Johan and 26 at Beckett...But if you're John Henry and Theo Epstien do you not take a chance to lock up the next 3 to 5 years that would likely make you the best team in baseball?-(on paper of course)
All I'm saying is I can't trust the Red Sox to be fiscally responsible when they have the opportunity to dominate the next 5 yrs by adding another 50 or 60 million to their payroll.
They think they have a dynasty on their hands and maybe they do. If they add Santana and Beckett to Dice K and Bucholz and then spring one more time for Tex...
I would weap.
Seriously, I think I would shed tears.
I predicted Teixeira would wind up either with the Yankees or with the Orioles, eventually. Not necessarily with the Orioles.
I haven't been on this board in several days and you're still talking about me?
I know someone who hasn't taken their medication today.
It's Anthony! Oh Anthony, not again! The meds are good for you - I promise (wink, wink).
Since they don't put people in straitjackets anymore, we'll have to settle for the "quiet room" with padding on the walls so that you don't hurt yourself.
I'm glad to hear I got into your head, oh righteous one.
It brings a smile to my face.
Mike from NJ, thanks man!! Must be a Joy-zee thing!!! REPRESENT!!!!
Mike PTRS, I agree, that would be a nightmare situation. You're right about some players coming off the books for both teams in 09.
SOX
Schilling
Manny ( soon )
YANKS
Giambi
Farny
Moose
Andy
Abreu
then in 2010
Damon
Matsui
Like you pointed out though, the offset of course is that the young guys like Wang and Cano will be due big time raises soon. I think the Yanks are in a good spot by shedding all that dead weight by the 09 season. Even if we dont sign Teixeria, other guys like Nathan and CC Sabathia will also be FA's. In your "worst case scenario" If the Sox signed Teixeria and traded for Santana, it wouldnt be the end of the world since we could counter with FA’s Nathan and Sabathia. Another factor is that the Sox have Ortiz, Youk and Lowell for three spots. If they sign Teixeria, where will the fan favorite Youk play? Maybe they move him to LF since Manny is about a year or two away from hangin em up. The Sox have a player option on Manny for 09 and 2010 ( 20M per ), they might opt to let him go and sign on Teixera next season. What would both lineups look like in 09? Lets assume that the Twins take the Ellsbury deal since thats the best "non-Hughes" offer.
Lugo
Pedroia
Teixeria
Papi
Lowell
Youk
Drew
Tek
Coco
Santana
Beckett
Dice K
Lester
Bucholtz
Paps
Oka
Delcarmen
Tavarez
?
?
Not sure about the rest of the Sox RP's
==========================
Damon
Jeter
Cano
Arod
Matsui
Shelly
Posada
Miranda
Gardner
Sabathia
Joba
Phil
Wang
Ian
Mo
Nathan
Sanchez
Melancon
Cox
Whelan
Ohlendorf
Robertson
=============
Again, the Sox lineup + pitching would be GREAT, but so would ours even without Teix and Santana. The Sox would be the favorites, but we wouldnt be the KC Royals either. Our rotation would be young and ready to dominate with a solid pen in support. On the hitting side, I think we would have the PERFECT righty lefty mix down the lineup with tons of speed and power.
So even with your worst case scenario, we would still be right there with the Sox. On top of that we would be getting younger and have a less expensive lineup giving greater flexibiltiy. In another year or two other young studs would be ready to come up. All is not lost in your nightmare scenario.
Thats all for me, Im burnt...see you all tomorrow!
We should take a look at recent history before we declare the Red Sox a dynasty if they do land Santana (which is probably not going to happen).
At the end of 2003, the Yanks went back to the World Series for the sixth time in eight seasons and won four rings during that span - but lost in their final two.
In response to their 2003 defeat, this team went out and traded for the best player of our generation - Alex Rodriguez - in addition to a borderline Hall of Famer in Gary Sheffield to shore up that lineup.
RSN was beside themselves and collectively diving off large buildings headfirst because the Evil Empire appeared on paper to be unstoppable.
Well, it hasn't worked out that way. The Yanks haven't been back to the World Series since and the flipping Red Sox responded by winning two of the next four World Series. It makes me sick just typing that.
Nobody on this board could have predicted the last four years and anyone who says they thought this scenario was possible back then is a liar.
The reason I feel I need to remind everyone of recent years is that the games aren't played on paper.
Santana landing with the Red Sox wouldn't guarantee anything.
Just ask A-Rod and Sheff.
Can you imagine if someone from today went back in time to game 4 of the 2004 ALCS?
Fresh off of the 19-8 humiliation in game 3... the conventional wisdom saying the wild and crazy idiot Red Sox didn't have the professionalism of the button down Yankees and it showed.
With A-Rod and Sheffield looking like playoff GODS (remember A-Rod basically beat the Twins single handedly in the Div series and had a great ALCS up until that point with a game 4 homer) the Yankees looked like they would win the World Series in 3 games. That's right, the NL team wouldn't even take the field for game 4.
And the Red Sox were about to lose Pedro, Lowe and Varitek to free agency and Schilling was a playoff bust.
Imagine if someone told you as Mariano was on the mound with a lead in the 9th going for the sweep that not only would the Red Sox win that game, but win the series, win the World Series, win it again 3 seasons later and Torre had already won his last playoff series with the Yankees and A-Rod would be a HUGE NY goat...
You'd probably be put into an insane asylum.
I keep fearing that I am about to wake up in a Bruce Willis "I didn't realize I was dead the whole time" panic and I'm watching game 4 and Millar, Meuller and Bellhorn all strike out and the Curse of the Bambino is still alive.
Just to throw in my two cents regarding DRU's Duncan comments at 11:27 yesterday. When I was back in the States, I saw Shelley (as DH) in two games last year at Scranton. He hit rockets out of the park in both games (one was a line drive that was probably not more than ten feet off the ground at its apogee and cleared the CF fence.) Man I just looked at my brothers and said, 'who is this guy?!'
I really can't say whether or not Shelley will ever be a decent fielding 1B, but I do think that he's the real McCoy as a RH power hitter. If he ever does attain a reasonable degree of defensive ability, he's a good guy to have around off the bench and as a part time 1b and RF. I may be overstating the case here, but he reminds me a bit if Bob Cerv, a valuable part-timer the Yanks had in the 50's.
Sorry Erick, I should have included you in my last post as well. I, too, like Shelley at first. Maybe the Yanks can disguise Tino and put him out there when the Yanks take the field, and just let Shelley hit. Of course they'd have bulk up Tino and have him mimic Shelley's body language!
Viper/Sully nailed it. I love how the Media is crowning the Sox a new dynasty. Sully was right by saying that the Sox were about to go home crying after another playoff blunder in 04, about to be swept by the Yanks in Boston. They did however have the greatest comeback in baseball history, cant take anything away from them, but the Yanks blew that series more than the Sox won it. Then in 05 they get swept by the White Sox in the 1st round, in 06 they miss the playoffs completely and then win it in 07 after almost being eliminated again, this time by the Indians. You can’t call them a dynasty for two reasons.
1. They didn’t have consecutive WS wins ( need three in a row to start the dynasty discussion )
2. The 04 team and 07 team are completely different. Different, SP's, bullpen, 1st, 2nd, SS, 3rd, CF, RF...the only players left over are Timlin, Curt, Papi and Manny, the entire team changed over. This means that the 04 and 07 teams have nothing related to claim any type of dynasty.
Now I’m not taking anything away from their WS wins, they earned both of them. I just want to point out to the panicking Yankee fans, that cant stand to see the Sox win anything, to relax. I know some fans ( my father included ), thinks it’s more sacrilegious for the Sox to win WS than it is for a priest to have sex with a nun on the alter of a church....on Easter Sunday...while mass is in session. The Sox wins dont bother me. Isn’t that what the definition of a "rival" is, when the other team wins SOMETIMES. If we won all the time, what kind of rivalry would this be?
Ill take this underdog status and embrace it! Viper is right by saying that getting Santana AND Teixeria, while even keeping Manny...would guarantee them nothing. The Yanks were the favorites to win the WS every year since 2001, who many did we win???? 0000000000000000000000. Like Ive stated before, the Yanks made the big FA splash in each of those years, none panned out. Im all for trying a different approach....for ONCE.
Yanks...how great is it when Shelly hit a HR? I think he might kill someone with those forearm pounds! The energy that Joba, Shelly, Melk bring to the team cannot be underestimated. The team needs players like that to light a fire.
According to NYPost the Yankees are interested in signing Jason Lane as a potential extra OF/1B to throw in the mix.
Chip...seriously? Why the f would we sign ANOTHER OF/1B, dont we have enough of these guys on our roster?
Abreu
Damon
Matsui
Melk
Giambi
Shelly
Wilson
If we wanted a glove at 1B, Lane is not the answer. If that was the intent we should have signed Doug. Hopefully thats just a rumor.
Just read this......
While speaking to some of his trusted veteran Yankees on other matters, senior vice president Hank Steinbrenner also has sought input about a possible deal for Johan Santana.
According to the majority opinion of his players, the team doesn't need to make a blockbuster deal with the Minnesota Twins to put them over the top.
"Nobody would say that we don't want Santana, but, yeah, they're pretty darn confident in what we can do this year [as is]," Steinbrenner said during a phone conversation Tuesday.
Steinbrenner said "a lot of factors" are involved in a potential deal for Santana, and mentioned that the Yankees already have the highest payroll in baseball.
"We're still throwing it around and talking about it. It may happen, or it may not happen," Steinbrenner said. "But a few of our best players seem very confident in the way that things stand right now."
Steinbrenner would not reveal which veteran players he had spoken to, but offered that "they feel fairly confident that we've got a lot of great young pitchers."
More than a month ago, before Andy Pettitte was re-signed, Jorge Posada was one veteran who came out in favor of a deal. "We need a No. 1, and I think that's one of the reasons we're going after Santana," Posada said at the time.
Steinbrenner said he hasn't thought about a deal with Minnesota over the past few days, and that he's "not particularly concerned" about the possibility of Santana being traded to another club.
"That's not putting him down," Steinbrenner said. "He's clearly a tremendous pitcher. It's just whether this is best [for our club]."
Steinbrenner said he feels that the Yankees "still probably have the best offer" available for Santana, but later added that "we're all very confident in [Phil] Hughes."
Hughes has been linked as the key component in a potential deal, along with center fielder Melky Cabrera, and right-handed prospect Jeff Marquez. The Twins seem to be seeking at least one more significant prospect to make a deal.
And this......
Yankees may give up on Johan Santana
BY PETER BOTTE
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Thursday, January 10th 2008, 4:00 AM
Brian Cashman has remained protective of the Yankees' assembled prospects, while Hal Steinbrenner has been equally shielding of the team's finances.
Hank Steinbrenner? That's been another story for much of the winter.
But while stressing there is "absolutely nothing new" in terms of recent trade discussions with the Twins, Hank is beginning to sound convinced - if not nearly ready - to walk away from any potential blockbuster deal for Johan Santana.
"We went into this with me making the final baseball decisions and Hal more addressing the financial aspects of the company, but we both do everything," Steinbrenner said yesterday in a phone interview. "We're equal partners, but at this point, to tell you the truth, I'm leaning away from it anyway, so it doesn't matter. Same thing with Brian, he's another integral part of it, obviously, being the general manager, and one day he's leaning to do it and the next day he's not sure.
"But what it comes down to right now is giving up a lot (in a trade) and then having to do the big contract, as well. If (Santana) was just a free agent, we could just go ahead and do it. There's a big difference this way. We have to sign him as if he's a free agent, plus you have to give up major talent. That's a tall order."
The Yanks and Twins had discussed a deal that would have sent frontline pitching prospect Phil Hughes, outfielder Melky Cabrera and two mid-level prospects to Minnesota for Santana, a two-time Cy Young winner who reportedly will seek a seven-year extension worth around $140 million.
"I don't know what he'd even want, or what they'd settle for. I don't know. We obviously haven't talked to him or his agent, so I have no idea," Steinbrenner said. "But a six- or seven-year extension, no, I wouldn't do that."
Steinbrenner added that opinions offered by several unspecified Yankees "during the course of conversation" in recent weeks have contributed to his change of heart.
"I'm growing more and more comfortable with what we have, and the veteran players I've talked to seem to be pretty comfortable with what we have. But we'll see what happens," said Steinbrenner, who reiterated that the plan is to shift Joba Chamberlain into the starting rotation. "I'm hoping we'll be set to go (to spring training).
"The big thing, as far as questions, is the bullpen and we'll see how that shakes out, but at this point, I want Chamberlain as a starter and not using someone of his ability in a setup role. We did that last year, but that was different. He was a rookie. But you don't do that.
"Setup guys are important, extremely important, but you have a guy of that ability, who our baseball people think either can be a top starting pitcher or a top closer. It's going to be up to Brian to plug that hole in the bullpen, if there is one, if we're not going to get Santana."
You are a wise man DRU
OF COURSE the Red Sox are NOT a dynasty... yet.
A team has to defend its World Championship successfully in order to be a dynasty.
The Torre Yankees did it.
The Cito Gaston Blue Jays did it (why can't Gaston get a job?)
The Bronx Zoo Yankees did it.
The Big Red Machine did it.
The Charlie Finley A's did it.
Right now I would equate this decades Red Sox with the 1980s Dodgers.
Both team won 2 World Series (1981 and 1988 for LA, 2004 and 2007 for my boys)
Both teams made the playoffs 2 other times (1983 and 1985 for the LA, 2003 and 2005 for my guys)
Both teams rebounded from devastating playoff losses to win a World Series later (The Jack Clark homer in 1985... winning in 1988. The Aaron Boone homer in 2003... winning in '04 and '07)
Both teams had big game pitching stars who won World Series games (Fernando and Orel... Pedro, Schilling and Beckett)
Both teams had improbable victories against Hall of Fame closers (The Gibson homer against Eckersley... the Roberts steal against Rivera)
Not even Tommy Lasorda would call the 1980s Dodgers a dynasty. They were the defacto "Team of the Decade" because they were the only team to win multiple titles. But that is more a reflection of the Mets, Orioles and Tigers failure to win another one... and Don Denkinger's blown call preventing St. Louis from winning in 1985.
As for the rivalry... it's funny. Winning the World Series in 2004 and 2007 has given a new dimension to the rivalry. The sense that it isn't Road Runner and Coyote... the coyote actually CAN win. And yeah, that's odd for BOTH sides... one side has 8 decades of swagger and the other has 8 decades of woe is me. Tough to erase that with one Dave Roberts stolen base.
For NON Red Sox and Yankees fans (rumor has it they exist) they hate the rivalry with a passion. A buddy of mine who is as big a SF Giants fans as we are fans of the Yanks and Sox said to me:
"The Red Sox winning in 2004 seemed like the ending of the story. You guys finally won. The end. But now it just keeps going and both sides are so obnoxious that all I hope for is NEITHER team wins again."
It's fun being the bad guy!
DRU, Varitek was on both teams too
But I agree with the high turnover, it's tough to call them a dynasty.
It goes along with my Dodgers analogy as only a few members of the 1981 team were left on the 1988 team
Sully, we might root for different teams, but we are cut from the same cloth. The LA comparison is spot on! Sorry about the V-Tek snub. While we are on the subject, how many more years do you think ol'boy has left in the tank? I thought he was done this year, but he came on strong late.
According to people with knowledge of the discussions, the Mets have offered top pitching prospect Deolis Guerra, along with center fielder Carlos Gomez and pitchers Kevin Mulvey and Phil Humber.
The Twins like those players. They've told the Mets they'd have a done deal if New York would add prized outfield prospect Fernando Martinez.
Just perhaps, Lane is insurance for the OF IF Melky just happens to be traded...
Wow
I really hope the Mets get this deal done and fast!!
This whole fiasco has left me emotionally exhausted lol.
Seriously though...
I don't hate the Mets like most of us here. I don't watch their games or anything but I go to shea when invited by my mets friends and it will be cool watching Santana embarrass the pathetic national league.
I loved Hughes and I still do. I truly believe he's one pitch away from being "Josh Beckett Light"
They have very slimilar pitches...
-Sick 12-6 curve
-Good fastballs Phil (90-92) Beckett (94-96) though both are kinda straight hence making both "fly ball and homerun prone pitchers" (Beckett in 06 33 hr agnst)
The difference is...THE ELEPHANT THAT I'VE BEEN SCREAMING ABOUT-The 3rd pitch.
Beckett was terrible in the 06 season because he relied too heavily on his fastball and curve and kind of left his change up out because in the NL he didn't really need it.
I say "Josh Beckett light" because Phil will never have his velocity, but the change up for any starter in my opinion is paramount to being successful and it's what made Beckett so dominant in his second season in the AL.
Give Phil a change up and he becomes our number one tomorrow.
*Sigh* It sure would've been nice to have a cy young left hander pitching in yankee stadium with the short porch in right etc...
so which team if any flinch first
do the sox add lester to the elsbury package
do the mets add martinez
or do the yanks add tabata/ajax or horne
i think the only one likely to happen is the mets. they are desperate and omar seems to be the type of GM to make a despeate move and destroy his farm in order to erase the memories about next season. i still want santana, but wouldnt cry if the mets got him.
just looking fo opinions - does anyone here think that the twins would take IPK and Tabata instead of Hughes and a lesser prospect? and - would anyone here do that deal - especially want to hear from those against a santana deal
M-E-T-S!!!! METS METS METS!!!!!!
YES OMAR!!! YOU KNOW YOU LOVE JOHAN, SELL THE FARM!!!!!!!
Not a Met hater either, would love to see him in Shea...far far away from the AL. If that’s the case, I’m picking Johan #1 in my fantasy draft..lol He’ll MURDER THE NL!!!
Chris 23, I would love for the Twins to go for IPK and Tabata, I just dont see it happening. They want MLB ready players like Melk, Tabata is at least two year away.
Mike PTRS, its coming buddy! Phil had the change working at the end of last season. He already has the slider which was his main pitch when we drafted him. The key with Phil is his control which is WELL above average. His minor league mark at 2.16 BB/9 is VERY similar to Josh's minor league mark 2.12. Once he gets all 4 pitches over for strikes...we will have our Ace in the hole!
Speaking of the Phil and Josh comparison…Minor league totals =
Josh
216 in..1.75 ERA..5.91 H/9..0.54 HR/9..2.12 BB/9..12.29 K/9..0.89 WHIP
Phil
275in..2.03 ERA..5.56 H/9..0.20 HR/9..2.16 BB/9..10.18 K/9..0.86 WHIP
Josh has a “joba” K rate ( 13.79 ), and edges Phil on ERA and slightly on the BB rate…but Phil has a better hit rate, HR rate, WHIP. Pass Mike PTRS a cigar…HE’S WINNER HERE!!!!
Rick Keyes, good point. I would still prefer Patterson in CF.
Why do all Yankee fans hate Giambi all've a sudden? The man has had 4 great years out of 6 with the team. The other two seasons, he has been injured.
In 2476 AB's with the Yanks, he has 177 Homers, 510 RBI, 543 BB, and an OPS of well over .900. I know he hasn't exactly been "worth the money", but lest we not forget his 2 home runs off of Pedro in Game 7 of the 2003 ALCS. Without him, Boone's bomb never happens.
Supa...I see your point, he has been the biggest LH power threat in the lineup since being acquired. I think many fans are down on him due to his injuries ( 04 + 07 ), along with some other things. In those injured years he batted
.208 with .721 OPS
.236 with .789 OPS
Those arent just bad years, those are MISERABLE years.
Plus when we signed Jason he was a .300+ hitter. He accomplished that feat in his 1st year ( 2002 ), but since then..
.250
.208
.271
.253
.236
So instead of a MVP player that we singed him to be, he is nothing more than Richie Sexson, all power and no average. The killer is the expectations we had for him after his big run in Oak. 30+ HR's, 120+ RBI's, .315 + Average ( .333 + .342 ). He hit those marks his 1st season, but has declined in all his numbers since then. I think now we all know why this happened, we got duped in that deal, I think thats why Yankee fans hate him so much.
Along with that he is a liability in the field. Its not that he makes tons of errors, but he doesnt make any big plays to help out his INF. Again, aside from the walks, I think Shelly Duncan can do exactly what Jason is doing now....250 hitter with 30+ HR's, but for a MUCH cheaper price.
Well, I just lost a nice long post about Phil that I had written up for all of you. I didn't realize just how obnoxious this posting process was. As a result, I'm asking that someone email me if it ever gets resolved, wag279@gmail.com. Else, it was nice blogging with all of you, but I just can't tolerate this crap.
Sully: I think we should all start posting to your blog. Sorry Kat, but until you fix the mess, I'm done!
FYI: Spring training tickets for individual games go on sale tomorrow at 10am.
DRU: Phil has said that he cannot throw both the slider and the curve. He can only throw one. When he tries to mix in both, he loses control and break on one if not both. He used to use the slider as his out pitch, but has stopped working on it. If he could ever develop the ability to throw both, then he'd have that 4th pitch, but he's going to do quite well with 3 pitches.
3 minutes apart, not too often, 3 days apart, too often? Seriously Kat. And Seriously, my last post until I receive an email.
HYD, how you been brother! I heard that as well, hopefully he can learn to use both the slider and curve more effectively. I was basing the 4 pitch info on his last start of the regular season against the D-Rays. In the YES archives there are two clips; one was an AB against Gomes and the other was the post game press conference. In both clips they talked about Phil using his curve, change and slider. Hopefully he figured something out at the end of last season and can carry it over to this one. I think Phil being 100% healthy will go a LONG way in his pitch development; last year was kind of a setback for his growth.
I love Giambi. He hasn't been what he once was, but that's because he's clean now. But, he has had more than a few "clutch" moments during his stay in the Bronx. The guy gives you his all. What more can you ask of any player?
Amazing how Rick gives someone like Giambi the benefit of the doubt but outright refuses to extend that same courtesy to the greatest player of our generation - Alex Rodriguez.
A-Rod has never been linked to PEDs and Giambi is an admitted cheater who has had a couple of good seasons with the Yanks, but has undoubtedly been a huge disappointment since his signing.
A-Rod has won two MVPs in four seasons with this club and will be the all-time Homerun King before his career is over. For all of Giambi's "clutch hits," they've only been to one WS since he's been on the club - and lost.
Go figure.
Sounds like a double standard to me, but that's your prerogative.
Rick... what more can you ask from Giambi?
I don't know... maybe not being benched in a World Series when his team needs him (2003)
Not abusing his own body so he is not even included on the playoff roster in 2004
Maybe as he's being paid as an elite player being something more valuable than a guy who can't run, can't field, can't play every day and is the most expensive pinch hitter in baseball history
What is Giambi's great post season moment I am missing?
How is he not considered to be one of the biggest disasters in free agent history?
Rick loves Giambi but hates A-Rod because he doesn't produce...nuff said.
Well who can blame loving Giambi?
Unlike A-Rod, Giambi has put up great numbers year in and year out, has never disgraced the Yankees, has contributed to the proud legacy of championship baseball and has provided the Yankees and their fans with many memorable playoff memories
He's been worth every penny!
Oh wait
A while ago, I compiled the Yankees' win-loss record in games in games where Giambi starts at first base, at DH or doesn't start at all to see if there really is much of a difference. (The website Baseball-reference.com has charts with every team's starting lineup since 1957, so it wasn't that difficult)
Anyway, the bottom line is that the winning percentage from 2002 to 2007 is almost exactly the same when he started at first base as when he DH'd, and only slightly above when he didn't start at all. They were 234-150 with him at first base, 207-134 at DH and 146-99 not starting at all. Prorated to 162 games, those winning percentages equate to 98.71 wins at first, 98.34 wins at DH and 96.53 not starting. Hard to say he's such a big defensive liability in light of this. Also hard to say he's all that valuable, but I don't think they should be afraid to play him at first. He also usually hits better when he plays first. Incidentally, over the past two seasons, the team had its best success with Andy Phillips starting at first base. They were 32-17 last year and 37-16 in 2006.
As for David Ortiz being a defensive liability at first, the Red Sox were 14-3 over the past two seasons when he started at first. My definition of liability is that it hurts the team.
Ortiz actually made key defensive plays in the '04 and '07 World Series
I am not comparing him to Mattingly and I would rather have Youk there defensively... but Ortiz isn't Mike Piazza at first
Tim, I remember seeing YES flash the batting stats of Giambi when he plays 1st instead of DH. The splits are significant in every hitting cat. Baseball is such a mental game and I’m sure that Jason being a better hitter while in the field, is part of the mental aspect. I don’t blame Jason, some guys just need to be in the game and have a feel for it to become better hitters. Being a DH is very difficult, you sit on your @ss for 45 minutes before you get an AB. That win/loss record reflects that disparity between his hitting stats more than his defensive skills. Like I stated yesterday, he wont lead the league in errors, however he is a liability at 1st base. His range is miserable, his throws to 2nd are all offline and he could scoop icecream better than a ball in the dirt. None of those things will go in as E's. If he cant get to the ball or it bounces in the ground, the E is on the fielder. If he throws to 2nd offline and gets one but not two, again it doesnt count against him. How many times did we see Tino or Donny or even Andy and Doug save a play? Our INF's all have strong arms and not a lot of range, they will rush their throws, many are high or wide. Jason has difficulty getting to those balls. Also when he's in the field, he has to play at "no-doubles" depth. His range isn’t poor, it’s miserable! God help us if someone lays down a bunt toward 1st. All these factors will not affect his fielding %. Seeing him day in and day out at the position and it is brutally obvious that he is a liability in the field, Win % or not. I would love to see the fielding % of this INF when he’s at 1st opposed to at DH, I would guarantee that the overall fielding % of his teammates is significantly worse. That’s the true measure of a 1B, saving his teammates @ss, which Jason does none of.
"As for David Ortiz being a defensive liability at first, the Red Sox were 14-3 over the past two seasons when he started at first."
David Ortiz is a freak of nature. This is a man who sucked so badly with the Twins that they practically paid the Red Sox to take him off their hands. He immediately gains over 40 pounds in about a month and becomes another Barry Bonds. But he also acquires the uncanny ability to turn on his power at will in special situations -- especially when he's playing against the Yankees. So now he's not only the second coming of Barry Bonds, he also now one of the greatest clutch hitters in the game.
His freakiness was especially obvious last year when he's injured from head to toe (requiring surgery) yet he continues to play every day and be productive. He runs astounding fast for someone playing with leg injuries and hits with such tremendous power for someone with serious back injuries. Even with such debilitating injuries requiring surgery he lasts all the way to the World Series -- and he still makes those key defensive plays and he runs as well as the next guy and he continues hitting those Bonds-type bombs in clutch situations. Immediately after season's end he has his much needed surgery.
While the world eyes Clemens with suspicion because he improved with age, they're not suspicious about Ortiz' tremendous sudden growth and tremendous sudden power and strange agility that he maintains through head to toe injury playing everyday while producing fantastic numbers. I'd like to see Mitchell question Paxton Crawford about his allegations that the Red Sox were using steroids not too long before they won the 2004 World Series and I'd like to see Crawford testify before Congress about this. I'd like to see this steroid investigation move away from the Yankees and placed instead on other obviously suspicious teams -- particularly the Red Sox.
With regards to Giambi at first base, if it isn't preventing the team from winning, then it isn't a liability, because winning is all that counts. Giambi may be a bad fielder, but who cares if the team wins.
RICKY...
AROD SINGLE HANDED DEFEATED THE TWINS IN 04 AND ALSO WAS ON FIRE THE FIRST THREE GAMES OF THE PENNANT