The Yankees and Robinson Cano are close to agreement on a contract, according to a source. They've reached agreement on the locked-in years, which will be four years and $28-million, with a $2-million buyout not to exercise the first option. They're still haggling over the money on the option years. But expect this to get done.
I visited with Joe Girardi this afternoon. Although the Cano deal's not official yet, so he couldn't comment, he's pretty excited about Cano. Called him a "great player."
Comments (92)
Yesterday, before a school audience, and with Theo in attendance, Cash pretty squarely put his feelings right out front by saying what we all knew, and to loud applause, that he was in favor of keeping the 'kids.'
Does anyone else get the same feeling as I do; either this is the Yank's definitive reply to the Twins or Cash has just publicly signed his resignation if Hank goes through with the deal anyway? Of course, it could just be more posturing and perhaps we shouldn't read anything else into it. Still, I wonder.
What do you all think?
61,
I think the only way Cashman can keep his job is if the kids pitch well enough on '08 to give the Yanks hope of a future dynasty with them leading the way.
If some of them, namely Hughes and Kennedy (because everyone believes in Joba at this point) don't work out or get injured and the Yanks have let someone else get Santana, Cash is done.
I like that he came clean about Bernie Williams (he thought his music distracted him from the game) and Abreu and Damon coming to camp out of shape (Cash: "that won't happen again").
He did mention that the fans and ownership should be ready for some growing pains in '08.
Okay...let's see if this blog is fixed. First try coming up....
How to Fix the Yankees in 10 Steps or Less
1. Be kind to the Third World
A. No business with Peking Gang: Stick up for human rights
B. No signings of underage children from the Caribbean
C. The black to white baby termination rate is 7 -1, oppose it in order to have more black MLB players
Fact: If you support the Yanks biz in that Big Asian Nation, if you want to see kids taken from their families in the Caribbean before they are 18 and if you don't oppose the out of control black baby termination rate, you are a WHITE RACIST with a sheet on your head, a bigot and you should be flogged.
Please explain otherwise. Please explain why these things are GOOD without the word "money."
2. Cashman must go ... he's horrible. No other CEO could keep his job with a third of his never ending mistakes.
Irabu
Pavano
Giambi
Brown
Clemens return
Igawa
Igawa over Lilly
No backup catcher for half of last season
Farnsworth
No lefties in the minors
Terrible bench for half of last year
Depending on Pavano and Igawa
Many more errors I could list
3. Esprit de corps
While we would all like to speak 5 languages fluently and make lots of money doing so, can you have a real team if they can't communicate?
4. "Doing it with class" vs. Jail
Jim L. DWI murder
Traveling Secretary
McNamee Date R. Drug
Steroids
HGH
Clemens
Congress
Mell Hall
5. Salaries, Equity vs. Performance
How can you spend all of this money and lose to Paul Byrd when it counts most? And he pitches with a tumor besides the fact!
The national and global economic situation is spiraling out of control. Are the Yanks being smart? No! Overpaying US$ 100 million for A Rod?
6. More on Class
A Rod WS drama
A Rod in and out
A Rod and his Vegas gal
C Rod and her tank top
This offseason has RUINED any normal person respecting the team for all of these horrible crimes! Yes they still have many good people of course ... what about the never ending dark clouds?
7. Play the game right fundamentally
Work the count
Runner on 3B
2 out RISP
Foul off tough pitches
Bunt
Hit behind the Runner
Abreu afraid of the wall
This is NOT a sound team
Forget not enough LHP's at the minor league and MLB level. You can't find American LHP's at USC, Texas A&M, Cape Cod League et cetera? Other teams do! Fire the scouts if they can't find the talent. There's lots of talent out there. Get it.
8. Sick Role Models
Clemens try to kill Piazza with the ball
Clemens throw the bat at Piazza
Farnsworth rude to the media
Clemens taping McNamee
McNamee in Florida Jazuzzi with girl rushed to hospital
Mel Hall
On and on ad nauseum
9. Player moves ...
No Abreu: Josh Hamilton instead
No A-Rod: Cano at 3B instead
No Cano at 2B: Eckstein to leadoff instead
No Igawa (50 mil +): Lilly instead
No Hawkins or Farns for 8th: Kevin Gregg instead
No Joba in rotation: Jeremy Sowers instead
10. Pride
No normal person would cheer this spectacle listed above.
His most interesting comments at that schools appearence in my opinion:
"*Cashman acknowledged that Johnny Damon and Bobby Abreu were out of shape when they arrived at spring training last season. “That’s not going to happen this spring,” Cashman said.
*Cashman took a few jabs at Bernie Williams, the popular Yankee whose exit from the team was not on friendly terms. Cashman said that Williams was terrible in 2005, but that he brought Williams back as a farewell in 2006. After Williams had a solid year, he wanted to return for 2007. But Cashman did not sign Williams. Cashman said that Williams’s music career “took away from his play.” Interestingly, Cashman said that Joe Torre, who was then the manager, looked for ways to play Williams in 2006 “ahead of guys who could help us win,” so Cashman did not want that to happen in 2007."
I had mentioned the NY Giants football team "playing the game right"
Maybe I spoke too soon.
Burress running up and down the sideline in Green Bay ranting about Al "The Predator" Harris; "He can't cover me" and now "our WR's are better than the Pats WR's" on MSN.com is not playing the game right.
It's not just what goes on right there on the field. It's about a degree of sportsmanship. Did you see Osi helping up Farve after a tough hit? Yes. Did you see Marion Barber patting Kawika on the helmet? Yes. Did you see elaborate celebrations when the Giants scored? No. Did you see that Green Bay player on the field after the OT loss telling the Giants, "God's will be done?" Yes!
They play the game right.
But Plaxico is talking a bit too much. And that ruins the esprit the corps and the whole cool vibe of the team. You want to be the humble underdog at least till you win the Super Bowl.
Do your talking on the field.
Like Paul Byrd before the AL Playoffs last year. Did he say "Even with a tumor and I can beat a 200 million dollar team throwing slop?"
No!
No, no, no!
Note: Paul Byrd can speak Mongolian, Albanian, Xhosa, Kwa-Nbele, Zulu, Latvian, Afrikaans and Serbian. He is NOT a racist!
Nobody brings the crazy like Ant Colony. Dude is a nut job.
Plaxico Burress was not ranting about how "Our receivers are better than New Englands receivers"
He was asked a question about what how he thought the Giants receivers stacked up against New Englands because they (NE) got more press.... and he said....: paraphrasing and in a very polite and non-condescending tone:
"I think our guys are just as good if not better than theirs....."
There was no animosity, boasting or malice.
What would you have liked him to answer.... ?
Well, It is true.... their receivers are much better than ours... that is why they will win the game.....
Is that what you think he should have answered?
Geez, get a grip son.
I was so wrong, his points were important and should be analyzed. Alas, I am too dumb to challenge ANY of them so I just attack the man.
I accept the coward I am, unable to write my name.
I am ashamed and ask everyone to forgive me.
I will now go back to watching The A Team, eating stale pork rinds and drinking Mad Dog 20/20
Oh those suprise endings! The black van going off of the dock into the water!
I pity the fool!
Plax should say; "They are a very good trio or quad of WR's. But we are also pretty good. We will soon face off on the field and we'll let others decide who is best. As King Solomon said, 'Let others praise you.' As the Apostle Paul said, 'Consider others better than yourselves.'"
Something milk toast like that.
Always let others praise you.
Since he was running up and down the sideline ranting in Green Bay "he can't cover me," we have to wonder about his ego and class and smarts. Where's the sportsmanship? Did Paul Byrd run up and down in front of the Yankees dugout last Fall, "I can get them out?" No! No, no, no. Where's the C L A S S ?
Why rant about it? We all could see it. He could see it. Freakin Ray Charles could see it. Had PB not dropped that ball at the 3 yard line his stats would even have been better than they were.
Ever see Gayle Sayers run his zig zag TD's all over the show on the kickoffs ... then just hand the ball to the referee like nothing happened.
That's African class.
Why didn't Gayle Sayers say "They can't tackle me?!!!!"
Answer: C L A S S. The class that MTV, heavy metal, rap music, WWF, the Clinton's Oral Office and the rest of the cultural meltdown has ruined.
We've lost that class as a nation.
Final Note: Anyone can attack the man. A brain has at least some counterpoint about said topic.
It's hard to believe that Ant is roaming the streets freely after the hundreds of mindless ramblings that spew from his keyboard. I'd almost be afraid to meet this nutjob in person without a tranquilizer gun.
And he's racist too.
Don't the Red Sox have a pretty diverse team?
They have players from several countries: Puerto Rico, Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, the United States, and Japan.
I fail to see how any of that stuff is relevant whatsoever when it comes to winning baseball games. The language barrier isn't that big of a deal. They all speak at least some English.
Baseball is a universal language, especially in Central and South America as well as Asia.
I cannot comment about the class of Plaxico Burress as a human being. He doesn't seem to be a "bad" guy... in fact he seems to be a pretty "classy" guy. Just an observation.
However, Al Harris is the one who leading up to the game all week was taunting in the newspapers about how he was going to shut down Plaxico.... how he won't be able to get open.
Plaxico's sideline rantings... which I didn't see and question if they really happened.... may have just been in response to Al Harris chirping all week long prior.
And using Paul Byrd as an example of class is pretty foolish. This is a guy who continues to lie to this day saying how his DENTIST PRESCRIBED HIM HGH AND STEROIDS FOR 3 YEARS BECAUSE HE HAD A BRAIN TUMOR!!!!
Now that's class....
From 1996 to 2000, the Yankees were an extremely diverse bunch and they didn’t have any problems “communicating” or winning rings:
Mariano Rivera and Ramiro Mendoza are from Panama. Orlando Hernandez is Cuban. Bernie Williams, Rickey Ledee, and Jorge Posada are Puerto Rican. Hideki Irabu is Japanese. Luis Sojo is Venezuelan. Graeme Lloyd is Australian. Several others were born in the Dominican Republic.
Do yourself a favor and actually admit that you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. It might go a long way towards your recovery.
The Yankees’ diversity has about as much to do with their lack of success in the postseason in recent years as the color of my underwear and the brand of shampoo I use daily.
A lack of pitching, specifically starting pitching, is the reason why they have not duplicated that kind of dominance again in October.
Get a grip, nutjob, and remove your white hood.
ANT COLONY:
Your comments are sickening!! How dare you cast judgements on others as though you live a perfect life. You have no right to disparage others based on your personal ideals. You come here acting like a pompous a$$ acting like you know it all -- as though you're perfect. Your comments are shameful!! You are shameful!! I can't imagine you have too many friends. What woman would put up with you?? You must be a sad lonely man because of your horrible personality and judgemental attitude. Get a f**king grip already.
Where have all the bloggers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the posters gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the posters gone?
Trolls have chased them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the young trolls gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young trolls gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young trolls gone?
Taken elsewhere every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the young bloggers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young bloggers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young bloggers gone?
Gone for REAL REPORTING every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the REAL REPORTERS gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the REAL REPORTERS gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the REAL REPORTERS gone?
Gone to REAL PAPERS every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the REAL PAPERS gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the REAL PAPERS gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the REAL PAPERS gone?
Covered by hacks every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
The NY Post had a few interesting articles today.
Ernie Acorsi, the Giants NFL GM and his relations with Omar of "Los Mets" fame was one of the best articles I've read in a while.. Very interesting ... a dynamic duo. Two super traders!
Acorsi wants to be a baseball GM I think, goes to a ton of Spring Training Games and carries around a baseball prospect guide.
I'll bet Colby Rasmus is on the top of that guide's list.
The Post also had an article about the Twins and the Mets.
Who would you rather have for Johan?
Mulvey, Gomez, Martinez and Heilman
Ian, Melky and Horne, Betances or some combo
Lester, Coco Puffs and a Minor League guy, Howie Something or Other ...
I would ask the Mets for Mulvey, Pelfry, Heilmen and Gomez.
Even without Gomez I make that trade. He's not really that good. You either can hit or you can't. He can't. He's overwhelmed, like Viper or Anonymous trying to hit Mulder and Carpenter when they're healthy ... OR with their arms in a sling.
With gold at US$ 900 per ounce and oil at US$ 100 per barrell, Johan does not make macro and microeconomic sense! Not for five or seven years.
Go Yankees on to victory!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Watch out for Paul Byrd though! He's a T E R R O R!)
Sorry I think it is Pelfrey and Heilman. Is that right? Pelfrey went to Wichita State and Heilman to Notre Dame. (Our Lady!)
I'm okay in that department.
Thanks for the concern!
I think you must be the lonely one!
What's sickening is the behavior of some of the players on the team, some former players and the brain trust's business dealings with Peking and in the Caribbean.
Please explain otherwise. As I said, it's easy to attack the man. Harder to defend biz with China, African-American abortion rate, Brian McNamee Date R Drug on and on ad nauseum and ad infinitum.
Well, I feel the pain of all the bloggers who were unable to post for awhile, as I haven't been able to put any new blog items up the last two days. So I'll just comment on here:
There were a couple interesting stories out there the past two days -- colleague Ken Davidoff covered Brian Cashman's interesting remarks Friday night in which he ripped Bernie Williams, called out Johnny Damon and Bobby Abreu for being out of shape last spring and was adamant that he does not want to trade for Johan Santana. Also, Hank Steinbrenner did a two-hour sitdown with the Associated Press.
I just got back from the Baseball Writers Dinner, which was held at the New York Hilton and was excellent. All kinds of baseball stars, past and present there. A few that Yankees fans will be most interested in include: Goose Gossage, Bobby Murcer, Yogi Berra, Alex Rodriguez, Brian Cashman, Johnny Damon, Joe Girardi, Joba Chamberlain. Many more, but those are some highlights. Damon, pretty much everyone agreed was the highlight of the night. He was honored for his community service and work with the Wounded Warrior Project. He was presented by a soldier who lost his left arm while fighting in the U.S. Army in Iraq, and Damon had a really tough time getting through his speech because he was so choked up.
17 days to pitchers and catchers.
Forgot to mention -- Long Island native Craig Biggio, who just retired after 20 years with the Houston Astros, was also honored.
Abreu and Damon won't be turning up out of shape this year. If Abreu wants work in 2009, he'll have to be right on his game from the start this season. I expect him to have a good year. Damon realises that his New York days may be numbered. He didn't like the move to left field last year and with Melky still around will be good to go when spring training starts. With a new manager, there will be a lot of guys who will have to get out of their comfort zones or they just won't be playing. I believe that the Yankees will have a good year and look forward to the start of the season.
Lets see if this works -
First of all, great job locking up Cano.
Sounds like Erik Bedard is going to the Mariners for Adam Jones and that Johan Santana will be traded this week to the Mets. Works for me.
Kat,
Thanks for the information, sorry you are having trouble with the blog. You need to do something I do when I get to work at a new company: I make friends with at least one of the IT geeks, buy lunch once in a while, write a note to their boss saying what a great job they are doing etc. This way that geek is always willing to help you out when you need it. If you buy a geek a good lunch, this blog will be fixed!
I liked Cashman's comments except for the ripping on Bernie part. I just wonder why he felt the need to do that. Bernie is gone and he's not coming back so why do that? I want to see Bernie come back to a long and well deserved standing ovation at an old timers game sometime in the future and I'd like it if Cashman didn't try to screw that up for us.
I also wonder why Damon chose to come to spring training out of shape last season. What changed? Did he suddenly think his body, at 30+ years old, would just take care of itself? Or was it the fact that he and his wife had a baby over the winter and he was just busy? Who knows? I think he learned a very valuable lesson though so I'm anxious to see what he looks like in about 3 weeks...woo hoooooooo!
Second try.....
Chip,
I agree, I can live with both those moves. Although I'd still like to see Santana just void the trade and wait out his final year in Minnesota. I'm just greedy I guess.
I'm must wondering how many CF's the Orioles plan to acquire. Next thing you know they're going to sign Bernie too.
I'm going to have to guess that if the O's make the deal then they are going to have to make some other deals for pitching. Because, unless I'm missing something, the only pitchers left in their system are Hayden Penn and Adam Lowen.
As for the Bernie thing, I don't know what prompted that from Cash, except maybe as bad as things seemed last year, they were even worse than we knew.
And on Damon, I'm going to go with the idea that it was the baby that distracted him from his offseason routine, understandably so.
Wow, its pretty bad when the best thing you have to evaluate about your GM is his comments to a bunch of elementary school kids. How about evaluating how he has performed in his job. That would be, how has he improved a second place team enough to get back into first. So far he has......
Signed LaTroi Hawkins.
That will do it!
Nudge,
The discussion was part of a series of town hall conversations with Cashman and Theo. The two of them do it each year. One in Boston and then one in NY/NJ - it was held at a school, not for school children.
Now that makes its all the MORE interesting. As relevant as Hanks ramblings about Belichik and the Patriots. Such a confidence inspiring group of leaders I must say. Think Boston is abuzz over Theo's comments? Or maybe they are more concerned about what he is doing to get the team back to the WS. I bet they aren't complaining about him not picking up LaTroi Hawkins for their staff!!
Its a new day it seems. Can you say role reversal?
Nudge,
Theo wasn't asked about Bernie Williams or whether or not Johnny Damon and Bobby Abreu came to camp in shape or not last year. Cashman was, his answers were different than the vanilla answers that you expect from him, and thus it was news.
The comment that Boston was abuzz over from Theo was that he, like Cashman, is content with young players rather than trading for Santana.
Chip,
Whatever! Talk is cheap what about action. Thats what I would prefer to have conversations about. The rest is fluff. Would it matter if he expressed his view on the presidential campaign? That would be news too.
Nudge,
I wasn't in the room so I can't speak to what else was talked about. I get the impression though that it was more of a conversation about how to get into the industry, how the role of GM has changed over the years...generalizations rather than specific explainations about one move or another.
As for the moves the Yankees have made this year, either ones that were made by Cash or ones that were made by Hank, LaTroy Hawkins doesn't bother me, and likely doesn't bother anyone else either. It's a 1 year deal for very little money. They needed a veteran relief pitcher, looking at the deals that were handed out to Vizciano, Linebrink, and Dotel...the Hawkins deal isn't bad.
The team kept Andy, Posada, Rivera, and Alex - revamped the coaching staff and has decided to go with the young starters and added depth to the bench. Not too many other moves for them to make.
Since when does treading water become a positive accomplishment. Granted he had to get those players signed or risk falling forther behind the rest of the league. But other teams (Detroit) substantially improved their team while the Yanks were trying to stop the bleeding.
I have no problems with anything Cashman said, but what was lacking was foresight. His hindsight reveleations were what they were. As for foresight, the standard mantra of "we want to go with the young guys" has been said over and over by every GM in history....but now for some reason its news. I suspect thats because he has no plan..... as he hasn't had a plan since getting his "full control".
The team is basically last years squad a year older. Wheres the improvement?
Oh, and by the way, Hawkins stinks so whatever deal they made for him is bad!
My neighbor offers me all his garbage for free every Monday and Thursday.
I dont take it though. I let the town haul it to the dump where it belongs.
The differences between the team that broke camp with the Yankees last year and the one this year is that they'll have a better defensive outfield with a full season of Melky in CF and Damon in LF vs. Damon in CF and Matsui in LF.
The bench with Nick Green, Jose Molina, Shelley Duncan, Wilson Betemit is better than Miguel Cairo, Josh Phelps, Wil Nieves and Kevin Thompson.
The rotation MAY be better with Joba, Hughes and Kennedy than it was with Igawa, Pavano, and Karstens - but that is a wait and see since we don't really know how the three kids will perform
The pen has only two holdovers from the start of last season (Farnsworth and Rivera) with Hawkins, Ramirez, Ohlendorf and Veras replacing Myers, Villone, Bruney, and Proctor.
As for the team being a year older in lots of spots, very true, but there's not a whole heck of a lot that can be done about that. They can't just say "We don't want Jason Giambi anymore" and have him go. Posada is still the best option behind the plate, as are Alex at 3rd, Abreu in RF, and Jeter at SS.
They did not panic and sign an Aaron Rowand or Torri Hunter or Francico Cordero for stupid money.
They locked up a top young player (Cano) to a long term deal and have not given the Twins what they want for Santana just because they are afraid of him going to a rival.
All things being equal the only position where a Yankee fan has much complaint is with Giambi at 1B and we can't even complain about that too much since there's really not much to be done about it and he's gone after this year.
And I'll say the same thing about Hawkins that I said about Doug M. last season. If the Yankee fortunes come down to Hawkins then there are far bigger problems that need sorting out.
That scary outfield is an improvement?
That scary bullpen is an improvement?
That scary bench is an improvement?
The only true improvement was the Molina pickup during LAST season. Of course that was a validation of Cashmans failed early season approach at the catcher position. But at least this season they start with a backup that can actually play the position and hit a notch over .200! But to turn a phrase of yours...if thats the difference maker for the Yankees this season the other teams have a lot more problems that need sorting out.
These no name backups and releiver always look better before you actually have to see them perform week in week out.
Nudge,
The fact that back-ups look good until they have to play every day is why they ARE back-ups in the first place.
To answer your other questions: Yes, Melky is better defensively in CF than Johnny Damon and Damon is better defensively in LF than Hideki Matsui.
As for the pen, I can't speak to how well this pen will perform because so many of the pitchers are unknown quantities, but relievers are almost always a shot in the dark - given that, I would rather take my chances with a couple of dozen prospects and ride the hot hands throughout the season than be stuck with guys you can't move like the team was last year. Hawkins is a non-issue, his signing was low risk low reward, if he doesn't work out the Yankees can move him relatively easily due to the short term, low cost on his contract. Or they can just release him outright. Either way, not a big deal.
In any case, my bottom line is that there is no need to hammer Cashman for not making moves this offseason since there really weren't any moves to make. Going into the offseason they needed a 3B, Closer, Catcher, starters, relievers.
They brought back Alex (who was the best 3b available)
Brought back Posada (best Catcher available)
Brought back Rivera (best closer available)
Brought back Pettitte and decided to fill the holes in the rotation and pen with the kids that they have spent years trying to find.
Now not all of these were Cashman's moves, and some of them are moves he didn't want to make...but the fact is they were made. So, now we see how it works out. But blasting Cashman for signing LaTroy Hawkins or for not making bigger splashes is a little bit of a stretch (in my humble opinion)
I like the fact that Cashman is sticking with the young pitchers and if there's growing pains involved, so be it. Since the Yanks lost the 2001 Series, it's been one expensive FA after another and there's been absolutely nothing to show for it except one pennant (2003) and a beating in the 2003 Series by a very young and supposedly inexperienced Marlins' pitching staff. If the Yanks don't win this year, then they don't win. The Red Sox didn't make the post season in 2006 and look at what they did last season. They're set up for a few years at least because Theo went with young talent and built up their system.
Cashman get ripped for not breaking the bank to sign these guys, then gets ripped for breaking the bank and signing these guys.
He can't win, can he?
So you exchange a guy with a good arm who takes bad angles with a guy who takes good angles and has no arm. Almost every hit to him is a potential extra base for runners on. Factor in diminished range and what you have is a bad outfielder playing the LF of Yankee stadium.
In center we have an outfileder that tracks balls as accurately as a Soviet Radar system. Balls drop in left and right that should be caught. But he replaces the guy with no arm and good angles.
Then there is the guy who plays RF like the wall is on fire....keep away at all costs.
This could be an historically bad defensive outfield. I would have to think long and hard if there was a worse fielding OF in my 40 years of watching baseball.
As for the pitchers....how did Edwar Ramirez do again last year?
How bout Ohlendorf?
Hawkins?
But I guess the approach of .... so if they stink we will just dump them....has been working out fine the last 7 years ..huh?
John G,
No he can't win because...he can't win!
Nudge,
You make it sound like the Red Sox ran away with the AL East when that's clearly not the case. In fact, RSN was sweating profusely the last week of the regular season and didn't want any part of the Yankees in the ALCS.
Only two games separated these teams last season and the Red Sox certainly haven't made any significant moves themselves.
Let's not forget the Yanks finished with the best record in MLB after the end of May. The rotation was a disaster in April and May because of so many injuries.
They also clobbered the Red Sox head-to-head after April by winning 9 of the final 12 meetings.
You should be reminded that good young talent like Joba, Hughes, and Kennedy is replacing the seven rag arms that didn't have any business on a major league mound in the first place (Henn, Igawa, Karstens, Rasner, Clippard, Wright, and DeSalvo).
The kids don't have to be great. They just need to be better than the aforementioned rag-arm squad last season. This is far from a major obstacle.
Viper,
Arguments based on supposition are specious at best.
You suppose that the Red sox feared the Yanks.
You suppose that 3 pitchers who have combined for less than 10 wins in their careers are going to be better.
You suppose that the record after May is more important than the results of the season.
You suppose that your team won't have an injury effect this season.
Now maybe all these supositions will come true. Maybe some will come true. Maybe none, but they amount to wishful thinking.
Chip, fighting the good fight! Im with you buddy.
Nudge, Ok I see you are down on this squad since its the same team as last year. I think we've already gone over what kind of shape the Yanks were in last May, the fact that they ended up 2 games under the Sox ( best record in the league ), indicates that the Yanks were the best team in the league for 4+ months. We did lose in the playoffs due to two horrible starts from Wang. it happens. Maybe this year Wang takes that experience and gives us 7 strong innings, turnarounds like that happen all the time. The offense ( led the league in runs ) didnt need any improvements. The back end of our rotation "SHOULD" have more stability than last year. There is a trickle down effect when you dont have steady SPing. The bullpen has to work harder, the hitters are pressing at the plate and it puts more pressure on your top starters to go deep into games. With solid contributions from the 3-5 starters, it helps the entire team. I know that’s much to put on three players under 24 and a 40 year old Moose, but its still better than Igawa, Karstens and the 7 other SP's we had to use last year. Again, IF we can get stability out of our rotation, 1-5, this will benefit the bullpen. Now for the actual players in the pen. There arent any surefire dominate RP's with huge MLB track records aside from Mo. But what team does have that luxury? No team in the league has dominate vets for the 7th, 8th and 9th innings. Last year the Sox were in bad shape. They needed to move Paps from the rotation to the closer role, they didnt know what they would get out of Okajima. Mike Timilin was coming off surgery. They had MANY more holes in their bullpen last year than the Yanks do this year. They ended up having one of the top pens in the league. What the Yanks do have is a plethora of hard throwing, young studs. Now out of the 15 guys that will compete for the bullpen spots this spring, maybe 1/4 pan out, thats still 3-4 guys, add in MO and we have a solid pen. Thats not even including Farny and Hawk, they may not be dominate, but they can get hitters out.
The Yanks realized that next year Giambi, Moose, Abreu, Farny, Andy, Hawkins could all be gone. At that time we could add in a couple FA's next season to complement the young core that we are building. If we go out and spend tons of money this year on say trading for Santana and signing Tori Hunter, we are back to being locked in for more 30 year old players that will make money at or near the top of the league for their respective positions. Dont we have enough of those guys already? Do we really need a proven vet all star at every single position? When will enough be enough Nudge? When do we start looking at the future? If you want to keep up with the Sox, they have a solid minor league system, what do you do? Sign the best FA on the market every single year while Boston builds a young cheap core? How has that mentality worked out for us since our last WS win?
Let me ask you a question Nudge. Its easy to sit back and bash the Yanks for not doing anything. If you were the Yanks GM, other than trading away our future stars for Santana, what other moves would you have made to improve this year’s team while also keeping our future in mind? I would love to hear your suggestions.
DRU,
Do this analysis. Put down your starting lineup and one by one assess if you think they will be better, worse or the same as last year. It will be hard justify many pluses.
Damon minus
Jeter minus
Abreu minus
A-Rod minus
Posada minus
Matsui same
Cano plus
Cabrera same
1B who knows
WOW Nudge, worst OF in 40 years? Bashing Edwar and Ross?
I wont even address the worse OF in 40 years statement, of D will be better this year than last as evident by the numbers once Melk was in CF and Damon moved to LF, the numbers dont lie.
Edwar, this was his 1st taste of the MLB, he still struck out 31 in 21 innings. He was the MiLB RP of the year, what am I expecting from him this year? Much better numbers than last year. Not every RP is Joba, some take time to adjust to the jump from the minors to the majors, lets give him a shot before we put the final nail in his coffin.
Ross, 24 years old and his 1st MLB experience..
2.84 ERA...6.1 IP...5 hits...9 K..2 BB...1.11 WHIP
Those look like solid numbers to me.
Then factor in our best RP prospects are coming back this season...Sanchez, Cox, Melancon. I think the yanks are setup nice for the future. Maybe this year there are some ups and downs, bumps and bruises, how about for once the Yankee fan base shows a little patience. This win now at all costs mentality is getting really old.
Nudge, Im sure you'll be 1st in line to bash when Phil Hughes gets hammered in a start, Ross gives up 4 runs in an inning and Edwar gets rocked for a grand slam. These things will happen, it happens to the best players in the league as well. Im just curious what you will say when Phil, Ross and Edwar complete a shutout...where will you be then?
Nudge,
No one has a crystal ball, Bro, so we really don't know how any of these guys are going to do until they go out and do it.
Or not.
As far as Cashman not being a winner, well, you just don't like the guy so matter what he does or doesn't do, you're going to be on his case.
4th time
Nudge,
Yankee Stadium is among one of the bigger outfields in the game, Damon and Melky have exponentially more range than Matsui and Damon, and Melky has a better arm than any of the other outfielders (among the league leaders in assists)
I don't know that the rebuilt Yankee pen is going to be better than the one last year, but they already went the route of giving supposedly good relievers big money and that didn't work out, so they are trying something different. Signing Linebrink, Dotel, Cordero - wouldn't have been any more certain to work out than running the kids out there and seeing who can do what.
Just as Ernie Accorsi's legacy is tied to Eli Manning, Cashman's is tied to the prospects.
As for assessing the lineup and assuming that everyone is going to be a minus off of where they were last season, that's nice. I prefer to wait and see how the season plays out rather than whining that the season is lost in January.
Maybe the Yanks should take the year off and not show up for ST.
Since they have no shot at even competing because they're too old, slow, young, unproven, then why bother?
Just take out the shovels and throw dirt on them now.
DRU,
As for what I would have done....
I would never have brought back Abreu. I would have pursued a real outfielder. A Hunter or Rowand comes to mind. The Yanks always under value defense and it always eventually bites them you know where. That outfield is scary bad.
The next priority would have been to acquire a starter with 200 innings track record. Not neccessarily an ace but a reliable innings eater. Instead they are counting on 2 young guys with no track record and an innings limit.
Third would have been a set-up man. Now the OBVIOUS solution was Chamberlain. But Cashman is smarter than the world and when he has the right answer he breaks out the eraser and changes it. So now its Farnsworth. But if he insisted on starting Joba he should have had a replacement in mind. But he didn't (unless you count Farns).
Third would be to get a first baseman...who can play first base...and be a DECENT hitter. Not a 170 strikeout kid with iron hands....not a .220 hitting good fielder....not a utility guy that you want to convert to 1B. I real life first baseman.
You can pick your names. You can select who you could offer for these guys.
If it was me I would not be afraid to trade Hughes, Melky(value wont' be higher) or any other minor leaguer they currently have.
Set Joba and Kennedy aside if you like. For what you are looking for wouldn't require a tremendous sacrifice. But just do it! Stop sending Hank out there to talk smack and come up empty. Just do it. Make a few deals and shake this thing up. Its Stale!
Ok lets play....
Sorry to the rest of the league because I already stated this a couple weeks ago...
I expect Damon, Abreu, Cano, Shelly and Giambi to all improve this year. The 1st three got off to miserable starts last year. All three are working hard this offseason to improve, expect them to improve on last season's numbers. Im also fine with the 1B rotation. Shelly against LHP, Giambi against RHP will combine for 30-40 HR's any way you slice it. Both players have 40 HR power, put them together and you have a .260 30-40HR 100+ RBI player. How many teams have that? Wilson is a solid power bat that can play any position. Any INF that has the day off, we will still have pop in our lineup. I also expect Melk, who had a great 2nd half, to also improve. Im not saying he hits 25 HR's, but he should be around 280 with 10-15 HR's, not a bad #9 hitter. So let me revise your list
Damon plus
Jeter even
Abreu plus
A-Rod minus
Giambi/Shelly plus
Posada minus
Matsui even
Cano plus
Cabrera plus
Again Nudge, any drop in Jorge and A-rod's numbers will be offset by the other players. We almost scored 1000 runs last year, so I dont think scoring runs will be any issue this season. I expect the lineup to actually be better than last season in my opinion. If, and I know its a big IF, we get decent ( dont need CY young starts ) starts from the young guys and/or Moose, our team will be better than last year. Now if Joba Phil or Ian come up with a BIG season, LOOK OUT!!!
Not really, Nudge.
As I have already stated a thousand times, the Trinity will be an improvement over the rag-arm squad. That's not even a debatable argument at this point. Those guys were all rookies too with very little to no major league experience.
Laptop boy doesn't have much MLB experience either, but I'll bet that RSN thinks he will be an improvement to the rotation.
Am I right?
Experience is often overrated. Every MLB player has very little experience early in their careers.
And I never said anything about May thru Sept being more important than the final results, so you would be wrong with that assumption. Again. I only pointed that out because they played as expected once the rotation got healthy and they didn't have to run out talentless scrubs three out of every five games.
As I've already said, only two games separated these teams in 2007. What that means is these teams aren't as far apart as you suggest.
I guess we'll see.
Sorry Nudge, that thought process is stale. Thats what we have done each of the last 7 season with no progress, only regress.
Ive hit on each of the topic you are worried about...
need a 200 inning eater....we already have one in Moose, no other FA out there would have fit the bill better.
innings cap on the young guys...overrated, no team in the entire league had 3 SP's that hit 200 innings. We already have Wang and Andy, the rest of the guys only need to go 180-160. All three of our young guys and Moose can do that.
Shelly can play 1st base, he may not be great. Who would you prefer? Doug? Andy? Then what do you do with Giambi and Shelly? I think Shelly deserves a shot since he has proven power in the minors and his brief stint in the majors.
You dont move Joba to the pen...that sets up back another year. Then in 09 you have to work at building up his innings again. We need one of our young guys to step it up, who knows. Young RP's do this all the time. Zumaya, Rodney, Paps, Broxton...all unknown RP's 3 years ago. Only one way to find out.
Nudge, how about you give this youth movement a chance, just one year.
Next season Nathan, CC and Teixeria will be available. Now if the young SPs all fail, Shelly/Wilson fail at 1b, none of the 15 young RP's work out....we can take the money freed up by the pending FA's...break the bank again, get more over paid all stars and continue our cycle. What do ya say?
Nudge:
I would have had no problem with Hunter, but he's on the wrong side of 30 and got a monster deal (forget the money, I'm talking about years) Same with Rowand, who has already started getting knicked up with injuries which tend to increase as players pass 30. Instead they kept Abreu for 1 season rather than being stuck with either Rowand for 6 or Hunter for 7.
How many reliable 200 inning pitchers were out in the market? Unless you call Livian Hernandez reliable, the answer is 0. Look at the FA pitchers, Kyle Loshe, Jon Leiber - you telling me that those guys are going to be absolutely better than Phil Hughes?
As for First Base, again, who is out there? Tony Clark? And the bottom line is that they are stuck with Jason Giambi. With an outfield of Melky, Abreu, Damon that means Matsui has to DH which means, until he gets hurt, Giambi has to play first base. It's a bad situation, but again, a short term one as he'll be gone after this season too.
Nudge, we've danced this dance before, you don't like the Yankees, we get it. So whatever they did or didn't do, you were going to mock because your thing is to come on here and stir stuff up.
Chip,
Damon doesn't have range anymore. He is average. Melky is below average for a centerfielder. Assists mean that the offense is running on you. They don't fear you. Soriano lead the league in OF assists too.He is really a corner guy. Abreu well...can only go in on balls. The wall might bite him!
You guys accept that because you really dont value defense either. Until you start losing games and then it hits you. But in the off season your defense always looks good. And I won't even start about the 2B defense.
John G,
3rd try
Nudge,
The problem with your logic is that not bringing back Abreu and trading Melky is removing the two BEST defesnive outfielders from the Yankees. Is an outfield of Damon, Hunter, Matsui better than Damon, Melky, Abreu? No. And not only is it weaker defensively, it is older and more injury prone.
John G,
Sorry part of the post was cut off.
Why do all the young guys have to start this year? With Moose and Andy near the end they will have plenty of spots for them.
DRU,
You will never achieve those inning with those pitchers because their history has given that. Also the youngs are capped below what you wish to get so you need more inning from someone. Unless you can get the league to shorten the games.
Chip,
You can trade player from the hugely stocked minor league system we all are hearing about to get player that dont have 6-7 year deals. Its called being smart! Cashman doesn't get that though. See it all seems improbably because you don't have the brain trust to do it. That only menas you need a better brain trust. How many 7 year deals have the Sox signed up for with aging players? They are on their game...just not your guy. Now the H & H brothers are there providing their horse farm based opinions on how to build a team. Good Luck!
6th try
Signing on Hunter and/or Rowand would have been terrible moves. Did you guys see the money/years that two over 30 OF's signed? Rowand had a career year in the Philly bandbox, while Hunter's knees were running down balls on the concrete Metrodome. I would rather have Abreu than both. Plus with other young studs on the way in Tabata and Jackson, the short term contract for Bobby looks even better. In a couple more years I expect our OF to be...Tabata, Jackson, Melk. By that time Rowand and Hunter will be shells of their former selves collecting top dollar.
Im not saying that our OF is the best in the league, but they arent the worst either. Melk and Bobby have great arms and Damon has great range. I would take our OF over the Sox ( Manny, Drew, Coco ). I would take our over the Twins, the Mets. The Angels have the #1 OF, I think the Tigers have a decent one with Granderson in CF, but they have run down old men in RF and LF. Again, compare the Yanks OF with other teams in the league and you will see that it is above average.
I think Abreu's bat is undervalued. He may not be that 30HR guy any longer, but he still leads the league in pitches per plate appearance, can hit over 300, steal 20 bases and walk 100+ times. Do you know what kind of effect that has on the opposing SP and the rest of the hitters in the lineup? Rowand and Hunter could never have that impact on the Yankee lineup. There is a reason Bobby is the #3 hitter in a star studded lineup with future HOF's.
Nudge,
I'm interested in your answer to Dru's earlier question. WWND (What Would Nudge Do)?
Take away the horrible inning Edwar Ramirez had against the Rays last season and he was okay, with enough stuff to get him by until he got more experience. Keep in mind that before that appearance he had not pitched in over two weeks because he wasn't one of Joe Torre's "guys" at the time.
You have to be able to give some in this discussion. You're being antagonistic simply because it's very easy to do that when a team seemingly stands pat. The Yanks have made a decision to get younger and they are doing that by inserting three youngsters into the starting rotation and a few into the bullpen. The Yankee management has asked for the fans' patience so you can't knock them for looking like they will take a backward step in 2008 as they have forewarned us that this will happen.
Now, if they are bad in 2009, heads will roll.
Chip,
You could be smart and trade for a real outfielder!
Jim A.
Read it, its posted at 13:13. Im not being antagonistic, Im being Realistic. I dont buy the spin that 3 young pitchers are going to start and with 15+ games each. If you do then your a Polyana.
I dont believe, after your guys ran 6 pitchers that were the org was high on, out there last year only to throw them into the dust heap, that the next round will fair much better. This is not new opinions. I challanged every one of their call ups of starting pitchers last year and was proven right. You all said the same things then...let just see what they can do. Eventually they will get one....but not 6.
Damn Nudge, you must have been away for the past couple weeks. We've already gone over these topics.
Lets look at the innings AGAIN.
Wang 200-220
Andy 190-210.
Moose 175-195
Ian 170-190
Joba 150-170
Phil 150-170
?? Horne 50
A team that does not experience any major injuries will start 7 pitchers over a season. Lets look at the innings of the three AL pitching power house division winners from 07...Sox, Angels, Cleveland. Again, each of the three teams each had 7 SP's register a GS.
Angels
Lackey = 224
Escobar = 195
Weaver = 161
Santana = 150
Saunders = 107
Colon = 99
Moseley = 92
Sox
Dice K = 204
Beckett = 200
Wakefield = 189
Schilling = 151
Tavarez = 135
Lester = 63
Clay = 22
Indians
CC = 241
Carmona = 215
Byrd = 192
Westbrook = 152
Lee = 97
Sowers = 67
Laffey = 49
Why cant the Yanks rotation hit any of these marks? Where/Why do we need another 200 inning SP???
Nudge,
By the time my post got through, you had already answered Dru's question. It's obvious you would have supported a trade for Santana and I can't argue on that one because I've been pushing for that as well.
I don't believe the Yanks will be as good next year as they have been and I would not be surprised if they miss the playoffs so any success next year will be a bonus if you ask me.
I think the Yanks shook things up to the extent that they could. Sure, they could've traded Abreu, but after a slow start, he was pretty good considering there were no other options that were good enough to keep the Yanks in the race and would only require a one year deal to bridge the gap to guys like Austin Jackson and Tabata.
The Yanks will have much more flexibility in '09 when Abreu, Giambi, Mussina etc. are gone.
The good news is