On the Yankees beat

There are THREE very good things about this report in my view.

One is that okay now we know. This is all they could find in a year and a half of digging and a couple of months of analyzing what they dug up. Nothing that is both reliable and new has turned up after all that.

Two is that the Yankees were covered – in fact, you could say New York was covered – more thoroughly than anybody who doesn’t have a Bay Area zip code. We don’t have to hold our breath. Anything that was going to pop to the surface in this City has probably already popped.

Three is that the Yankee system as a system didn’t come out badly at all. Nearly all of the discredited players grew up in someone else’s house.

P.S. You know we have some Torre haters here for whom everything that happened in Yankeeland was Torre’s fault, except for the winning. So someone was screaming here yesterday about how any juicing was Torre’s fault – he should have had control over what was going on in the Yankees clubhouse.

Looks like maybe he did.

Maybe that’s why the Mets’ clubhouse guy’s business was so good.

I never thought I would say this, but I agree with Boras. The names should not have been in there without due process.

Now, as I said on the other thread, if the players were told, "look, we have this evidence against you, would you care to comment and give us your side of the story?" And they declined, then that's on them. But if they were never told about evidence against them, then that's on Mitchell. Also Fehr made one point that I did agree with yesterday and that is that even if a player wanted to talk to Mitchell there was nothing preventing Mitchell from going to the Balco grand jury or Albany DA with that information.

Players had to be named because that was the meat of the report and everyone knew it, had Mitchell not named players no one would have given it the time of day. But at the same time the anecdotal evidence leading to the names in the report should not have been enough to ruin the reputations of these guys. Am I saying Chuck Knoblauch or Ron Villone didn't do steroids, I am not. But I'm also not willing to accept two drug dealers looking to cut a deal as credible sources without additional evidence that supports their claims.

I said this on the last thread but wanted to know what you all think. If I were the Comish I would do three things:

1. Take Mitchell's advice to not punish the players. Many of the names that were brought up were reported to have used HGH before it was banned, and the ones who used hard core steroids were proven anecdotally at best. Better to just move on then explain why Player X gets 50 games and Player Y gets 5.

2. Go to Congress with the report and say, "The names generated in this report were found because of crimes uncovered by Federal Investigators, Senator Mitchell did not have the power to compel testimony, to search players' homes, lockers or bank records. There are Kirk Radomskis and Brian McNamees in every locker in sports - we need the power of the Federal Government to uncover them. We need you to launch an investigation that can generate search warrants and compel testimony."

3. Adopt EVERY SINGLE measure that Mitchell proposes. Forget the Collective Bargaining Agreement. If the Union doesn't like the idea of HGH tests, let them go on strike over it. Let them explain to the American public that they are striking to protect drug users. I assure you that the public, and clean players, would have a HUGE problem with that.

The "homerism" being displayed on this Blog the last couple of days is incredible. If Pettitte needed "something" to get back on the field, he should have gone to a real Dr. that specializes in injuries of that type, No way an athlete, (with his future at stake), gets involved with a back alley "bag man", unless the athlete knows what he is doing is wrong and or illegal. If this was Ortiz we were discussing, you guys would have already burned him at the stake twice. As I said yesterday, Pettitte needs to tell his side of the story, good or bad. He is on the 40 man roster. Forget the ramifications it may have on Clemens. He is currently a private citizen. Pettitte telling the "real" story, would clear the air, and give you "homers" a day off.

Actually of the three who gave press conferences yesterday Fehr came off best in my opinion. (Yes I watched all three in their entirety, no I didn't have anything more compelling to do yesterday afternoon.)

Mitchell did his customary press-conference stand-up report, sounding weighty and trying to convince us he had the solutions without being able to convince us that he had found out much about the problems. Washington stuff: I don't know what the hell was going on, but do what I say and it will all get better.

Bud was his usual gerbilish self, self-promoting in that wimpy mid-western style of evading blame, sounding righteous way too late, and trying to cast doubt on others ("I'll do whatever I can do by myself", not "I'll work with everyone to come up with good solutions").

Fehr was the only one who sounded like he was having an honest reaction, and mostly he was pissed because they blew him off (and by extension blew his members off). They gave Buddy Boy 48 hours to look over the report and come up with a credible response, handed it to Fehr an hour before the Mitchell press conference. Yeah, I'd say they blew them off.

And given how Selig collaborated in doing so, I'd also say: so much for labor peace in MLB.

Grampa,

I agree with you, Mitchell looked like he was being petty -- getting back at Clemens for not coming to heel, and getting back at Fehr for telling the players what their exposure would be and what their legal rights were.

Forget who looked like what. Focus on the information provided, and evaluate it objectively.

Sox fan..Yanks got screwed here

This report is a disaster,
nothing good will come of it.

This "investigation" was a scam,
a couple of little guys forced to "talk"
or be charged with
"failing to cooperate".
What country is this?
What are we doing?

"Failing to cooperate in your own Hanging".

This tactic is routinely used against us all.
It is derived from RICO,and the war on drugs.

Save yourself by pointing the finger,
you, guilty by accusation,guilty because i said so.

It is a disgrace,it is guilty until proven innocent,
it is guilt by association.
A public lynching,outside of the law,
without trial.

You are not the only ones hurt and angered by this.

We are all at risk. That neighbor next door?
accused of whatever?
His motivation to point the finger at you.
That is what we are talking about here.

Man I am disgusted,and nobody seems to give a dam.

Roy,

You're missing a couple of salient points in your comments regarding Andy:

1. Brian McNamee was a team trainer - going to him was like going to Gene Monahan.

2. If what David Justice said last night on YES is true, that McNamee was describing HGH as a more advanced form of a Cortizone shot, then I can understand players who didn't know any better, taking their word for it. After all, these are team trainers.

Roy:

Here is the information provided:

1. McNamee and Radomski facing Federal charges provided names and stories regarding alleged steroid use. With no evidence to substantiate their claims.

2. Radomski provided canceled checks that he says were used for steroid kits with no evidence to back up that claim.

3. The entire "naming" section of the report are He said/He said. it is a matter of credibility. Whom do you believe, the players, or the drug dealers. The honest answer is I am willing to believe SOME of it, but I am also willing to believe that they added some flavor t their stories in hopes of getting lighter sentences.

You see, there is no way to objectively look at the "evidence" provided and come to any conclusions, because the evidence is anecdotal at best. Objective evidence would be a steroid kit taken from Roger's home or an email from Kevin Brown to Radomski saying "get me steroids." But we don't have that here. All the evidence here is open to interpretation and evaluation which is why every legal expert is looking at this report and saying "man I wish I represented these guys right now." The entire report is a slander suit waiting to happen, which is part of the reason Mitchell has insulated himself. Any legal fees will be paid by MLB as part of the contract Mitchell signed prior to taking on this investigation. That is why more attention needs to be paid to the "next steps" section and less to the anecdotal information that led to the names.

Chip,

Regarding your suggestions and taking them in order:

1. Obvious yes. Mitchell had no choice but to recommend no action since he knew very well that much of what he 'reported' was unsubstantiated hearsay which wouldn't have a chance of standing up in a due process situation. Is Selig a lawyer? If so he already knows the same thing. If not, the MLB lawyers will give him a clue.

2. No, if you were commissioner you would (I trust) be looking for ways that MLB can take the INITIATIVE, not ways for it to ask someone else to kick it around another block or two.

3. No, the way forward is not to pretend at this late date that you are a knight in shining armour and everyone else is a villain. The way forward is to get everybody behind better testing with more transparent consequences.

You may be right, Chip, that he could make the players' union look bad if they opposed any of his or Mitchell's ideas (whether they were good ideas or bad ideas), but is that the point? In the first place, there is absolutely no reason to imagine that either Mitchell or Selig has the best ideas about how to straighten this mess out. In the second place, there are a thousand ways that starting a war with the union would be detrimental to the Commission, the owners, the clubs, the players, and us fans, and none of them would be worth a moment of self-righteousness from Commissioner Gerbil (thank you for that one, NSH).

CHIP-
I thought McNamee was some sort of "strength or conditioning" coach. He aint no Gene Monahan, or a real Dr. by any stretch of the imagination. Pettitte was no rookie at this point in his career. He knew what "pains" were common and what were not. Again, Pettitte just needs to tell his side of the story.

Diane - he wasn't a "Mets clubhouse guy" when he was dealing steroids. People love to overlook this fact.

The Yankees "system" doesn't look that bad? So it's ok to sign multiple players suspected of cheating - and there is NO WAY the Yankees front office did not know there was specualtion around Clemens, Giami, Sheffield, and many others - as long as they "grew up" somewhere else? Do you honestly believe that?

Giving steroid users multi-million dollar contracts exacerbates the problem more than anything else - all of baseball sees the rewards associated with cheating when Georgie and co. come flying in with their checkbook, recklessly and irresponsibly signing players at the center of this strom.

You want to say they didn't know about Clemens when they dealt for him in 99? Well he and Pettitte were fingered years ago - didn't stop the Yankees from giving the two of them over $50MM in the past 12 months to make sure they didn't go anywhere else. Everyone else knew about Giambi back in 2001 - the Yankees didn't? Ditto Sheffield.

All of baseball looks terrrible today, but to suggest the Yankees look OK because they are not injecting their prospects as a matter of course is ridiculous.

And don't look now, but they just gave $275MM to another guy with suspicion around him. Canseco may be seen as a wild card, but has he been wrong yet? What creative motives for accusing ARod can all you homers come up with to discredit him? what part of ARod's personality doesn't say to you - this guy would do anything to win. He tried to slap balls away from fielders, yells "got it" around defensive players...you don't think ARod in the late 90s would at least consider this seeing how it was going around the game?

Nah, keep putting your head in the sand as your team signs cheats, and keep applauding them during your roll call the same way you treat honest players like Jeter or Matsui or Mussina - yeah Mussina, who must've felt awesome watchng Cheater Roger ride in on his white horse while he was booed and yanked from the rotation for having the brazen gall to actually get old. Bet Mussina would be pitching much better on steroids too.

Roy:

McNamee's title was Assistant Strength and Conditioning coach. As I understand it, the strength coaches in most clubhouses are akin to trainers helping players get through knots, sore joints, and things like that. I'm not saying Andy is innocent in this, but I'm saying that if players were not educated about what HGH really was at the time this happened, I can understand them using it without giving it more thought than they would give a Cortizone shot.

Again, this was supposed to have happened in 2000 (in Andy's case) I do not remember HGH coming into the public light until 2003 when the Balco Grand Jury testimony started leaking.

Chip - If you are Radomsky or McNamee, facing charges and sitting in front of Mitchell, do you you:

A) Tell the truth

B) Concoct elaborate and fabricated detailed accounts including dates, times, specific steroids, quotes, etc. around famous baseball players to increase the scrutiny on yourself and open the opportunity for more trouble if you are proven to have lied

Take your Yankees blinders off - you sound like an idiot. This is not a 'conspiracy.'

ROGER CLEMENS TOOK STEROIDS.

ANDY PETTITTE TOOK STEROIDS.

GIAMBI, STANTON, SHEFFIELD...TOOK STEROIDS.

They were all Yankees. GET OVER IT.

Again, Pettitte knew what pains were to be expected, and what pains were cause for alarm. A million dollar athlete "allegedly" letting an Assistant inject him with anything sounds all kinds of alarm bells. Pettitte should "man up" and tell his story, even if he does it in "Giambi" fashion.

Where are the Red Sox names????????????

yup!:

I am not saying they did not take steroids. I am saying that none of the evidence given in the report would hold up in any court other than the court of public opinion.

Let me ask it to you this way - If a Federal Prosecutor came to you and asked you 3 times, "Did Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte do steroids" and 3 times you said no, and then the 4th time that same prosecutor came to you and said, "you're going to jail unless you assist the investigation, now again, did Andy and Clemens do steroids?" What do you say then? Because, based on the reports from TJ Quinn that is what happened. When the Grimsely stuff first came out last year McNamee was asked several times if Grimsley was telling the truth and McNamee said no, only when he was facing Federal charges of his own did McNamee's story change.

I AM NOT SAYING THESE PLAYERS ARE INNOCENT my comment is simply that what I have seen here is not enough for me to say with 100% certainty that they are guilty either.

It begs a bigger question, why are we so willing to give credibility to the drug dealers and none to the players? That's why I feel that more investigation has to be done. I'm not calling the Mitchell report a conspiracy, I'm calling it incomplete.

Yupi,

I forgive you for misquoting me because I see that in your state of virulent resentment of the Yanks you probably only half-way permit yourself to know that you are doing it.

And also because I love what you said about Mussina.

Someone mentioned yesterday and I agree with that someone: this list is the tip of the iceberg and in no way, shape or form is it the complete list.

Anyone out there who's throwing stones (aka: Boston fans screaming about the Yanks being cheaters) need to take a step back and wait for more names (many more) to drop.

Canseco's book, his recent comments (see Kat's story), the comments of the Late Ken Caminiti in which he said around 50% of Major Leaguers are using the stuff, are all going to come to light.

Mitchell got all of those names from yesterday's list from 3 sources. Those were the only people who cooperated with him. There's more out there and guess what folks; they may never get caught.

Rick,

If Radomski or McNamee worked in Boston there would have been REd Sox, if they had worked in Chicago there would have been Cubs. They worked in NY, it stands to reason that their clients would be NY based as well.

Roy,

Maybe he will tell his side of the story. But the bottom line is that if I were a pro athlete and had no clue what HGH was, if all I knew about it was that it was "like Cortizone" and would help me heal my injuries, and that it was not prohibited in the sport, and being suggested to me by a trusted member of the training staff, which McNamee was, as well as being Andy's personal trainer on the advice of Roger, I would have no problem taking it.

All of you realize that hardly any of this would stand up in a court of law. That's why Selig won't take any action. Otherwise, he would be in deep doo doo with all the law suits baseball would have. I don't like releasing names unless you have absolute proof, eg.- cancelled checks.

Here is an example of a NON YANKEE that I have a problem with being named in this report:

Matthew (Maryand): Is it just me or was Brian Roberts screwed in this whole deal?

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (12:05 PM ET ) Absolutely. There are quite a few guys who should never have been mentioned, but he tops the list. For those who haven't read closely, he's mentioned three times: 1) that he lived with David Segui and Larry Bigbie but they never saw him use steroids. 2) he had lunch with those two and Kirk Radomski, and afterwards Segui went to buy steroids but Roberts wasn't there. And 3) Bigbie claimed Roberts mentioned that he'd tried steroids "once or twice," but Bigbie never witnessed it or even suspected it -- and there was ZERO evidence that it was true. So how'd THAT guy wind up in the report?

Steve (Indy): Jayson I didn't see one shred of proof that was in any way conclusive on any player in the report. Did I miss something?

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (12:11 PM ET ) It's all how you define "proof," I guess. Look, we all accept the general portrayal of the era as a drug-culture debacle. So we have to presume a decent chunk of thoe players named are guilty of something. But the report admits that Radomski never "observed" or "participated in" ANY player's use of any substance, and he's the source for pretty much the whole report. I counted eight players, out of 86, whose use was "witnessed." But five of them are those Dodgers farmhands who did it before they got called up or before their was a minor-league agreement. So toss them out. And the other three are Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and Chuck Knoblauch, who were all witnessed by Brian McNamee -- but there's no corroborating evidence beyond McNamee saying that yeah, they did it. I don't know that that's enough "proof" of any specific player's use. And the Radomski receipts and address book, etc., stand as anything from solid circumstantial evidence in some cases to phony circumstantial evidence in others. I wish Bud Selig luck if he thinks he can suspend many of these guys based on this "proof."

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (12:16 PM ET ) I don't think he necessarily painted players with the same brush. But you're right. He knows exactly what the media will do with a list of names like that -- list them. And listing lumps them all together, with zero context. But I'm curious what people think about the Andy Pettitte section, If you accept that account as the truth, what do you find? He asked about HGH when he was on the DL with an elbow injury because he wanted to get back sooner and help his team. Sounds exactly like Rodney Harrison's explanation to me, and the whole planet accepted that one. So is a guy who does that "a cheater?" I'd like to know what you think.

I'm sorry for all the Pasting but here's a great comment:

Steve (DC): How is using a Cortisone shot to return from injury different than using HGH?

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (12:19 PM ET ) That's another great issue. The simple difference is that cortisone is legal (a legal steroid, actually) and HGH is illegal if improperly prescribed. But what you find if you dig through the accounts for context is that clearly, players came to believe that HGH was a miracle healing drug that helped them recover from injuries faster. So a lot of them sought it out for the same reasons players ask for a cortisone shot -- so they can get back and play when they ordinarily couldn't. If a guy takes a cortisone shot to play in a postseason game, he's a hero. But if a guy uses HGH so he can get off the DL in time to play in the playoffs, he's a "cheater." It's a fine line, isn't it?

Chip

But a Red Sox Director did this report. IF it was indeed a report on ALL OF BASEBALL, then he should have conducted similar "interviews" and investigations in EVERY ML city. This report will ruin the careers and reputations of many players. It's not right to have a report done ONLY on select cities and teams. It should be a COMPREHENSIVE REPORT on ALL OF ML BASEBALL!!! Conveniently, most teams and their players were ommitted.

I agree that Selig must go. The other professional sports don't come under half this scrutiny. If Rudy don't make it as President, I think he would be a great commissioner.

Roy,

You're missing a couple of salient points in your comments regarding Andy:

1. Brian McNamee was a team trainer - going to him was like going to Gene Monahan.

2. If what David Justice said last night on YES is true, that McNamee was describing HGH as a more advanced form of a Cortizone shot, then I can understand players who didn't know any better, taking their word for it. After all, these are team trainers.
================================================
Chip

David Justice also destroyed the credibility of his peers with his answers when asked how he felt about the list , when his repsonse right there and then should have been

"If I who did no wrong can get pulled into this then the credibility of such a list is weak"

Instead his response was more like

" i shocked i heard rumors about some of them and its a sad thing "

In other words applying support for the other names and exempting himself.

Not a good look. he had the chance to DESTROY The credibility of the report right there

I'm sorry for all the Pasting but here's a great comment:

Steve (DC): How is using a Cortisone shot to return from injury different than using HGH?

SportsNation Jayson Stark: (12:19 PM ET ) That's another great issue. The simple difference is that cortisone is legal (a legal steroid, actually) and HGH is illegal if improperly prescribed. But what you find if you dig through the accounts for context is that clearly, players came to believe that HGH was a miracle healing drug that helped them recover from injuries faster. So a lot of them sought it out for the same reasons players ask for a cortisone shot -- so they can get back and play when they ordinarily couldn't. If a guy takes a cortisone shot to play in a postseason game, he's a hero. But if a guy uses HGH so he can get off the DL in time to play in the playoffs, he's a "cheater." It's a fine line, isn't it?
================================================

Chip this was my point from jump.

But what amazes me is the levels people are taking to protect Andy and Roger but when Bonds was indicted 3/4 of this site and general public was calling him a cheater!!!

Sometimes I wonder and the more I try to deny the more I see the Bias

the above was me

When is Boras going to sue Canseco for repeatedly implying A-Rod is a steroid user? I know Canseco is just trying to a make a buck (since he's now a post-steroid physical mess and can't play baseball and earn an honest living) by selling his "sequel," but if he has absolutely nothing to back this up, why are they allowing him to smear A-Rod's name?

Bomber,

I can't say if there would be bias or not, but so far there is no case against Clemens or Pettite except for the unsubstantiated hearsay of one solo 'witness'.

Up till now they haven't tested positive, there has been no documentation showing connection with any illegal substance, and they haven't lied under oath.

I hope that if those things happen they will be treated the same as Bonds.

Until then there is no way to know, and no way to compare their situations.

Bomber,

Of course being treated by Bonds would mean Yankees fans would continue to adore and applaud them while the general public reviled them.

Somehow I doubt that New York City fans would be as indulgent as San Francisco fans have been of Bonds, but maybe I'm wrong.

Sorry, Bomber, I meant being treated "like" Bonds, not "by" Bonds.

Yes, Rick Keyes. You got it right.

Lupica's an insignificant loser with a Napoleon complex. Runt!
Listen Chip, Your point is well taken, but this isn't about an "anti-NY" conspiracy, it's about an anti-Yankee conspiracy. If you are taking on something as profound as creating a report about the use of PED's in baseball - it must address each team in both leagues, the minor leagues and where these drugs are most likely produced, sold, through whom, etc. There is some of this in the report, but it seems grossly superficial compared to what it was supposed to do, which is not selectively identify certain individuals but to address the problem - team by team, and then come to a conclusion based on ALL OF THE EVIDENCE.
Slanted by a RedSux Executive - ABSOLUTELY!
Disgraceful - You bet it is.
I guess while working for the Red Sox, Grampa Mitchell never heard a peep about any steroid use at Fenway, oh no, heaven forbid, couldn't happen in America's town, to America's team.

Wake up, Yankee fans.

Sully, you around today? I saw a statement by our President who said "steroids have 'sullied' baseball". Do you think this was a personal shot directly across your bow?

The report is mind boggling. Yes we all had to know that steriods was rampant in baseball. It was in football starting in the 70's. The argument used to be against lifting heavy weights in baseball. Then it all changed in the 90's. Do you really think that players who had millions of dollars at stake would not try and get an edge? If you think nobody would then you are really have you head in the sand. Don't misconstrue what i am writing. Steriods is illegal and players who use them are cheaters. But this report does NOTHING to alievate the game. Start with Mitchell, a Red Sox employee. A man who went for the easy evidence of two individuals who were forced to speak to him because the Government put the screws to them. This is not a comprehensive report. The funny thing is that if they included players who did not fail a drug test or had a cancelled test. How does this happen? Finally, What player would of come forward to speak with Mitchell. No immunity for everyone involved then their is no way a sane person who indict themselves. This was not a criminal investigation. It's a travesty!!!

9 Players on the 2000 team....RETURN THE TARNISHED RINGS !!!!!

At Least the Mets admitted the problem and agreed with the findings.

Yankees are running and fleeing like RATS !!!

**If Yankees want to save ANY FACE they cut Giambi and Pettite TODAY !!!!.....Mets got rid of Motta, LoDuca and Showenweiss.....WILL THE YANKEES FACE THE MUSIC and CUT THESE CHEATERS ???????????

Like it matters...SOX OWN YOU !!!!

GOT NEW RINGS ????? GOT ROOKIE OF YEAR ????? GOT PAPLEBON ?????????????

We just need the truth.

We just need the facts.

If Ankiel or Pettitte took HGH to help recover from surgery and it was not illegal then and they took it on advice from a MD, we all will probably understand that.

The other users, be they black or white or brown or yellow, if they knowingly cheat then that is another story. No one should go after Bonds over his race, just his (lack of) character.

Clemens has been acting nutty for years, almost killing Piazza, throwing the bat at him because "he thought it was the ball" and getting arrested at his son's Little League game. That's not normal. That means something has colonized him. Maybe it's stereoids and this rage associated with it. Who can say for sure?

Steroids make you sick. HGH causes tumors. Look at Paul Byrd.

At stake is our culture of Big Pharma drugs.

And it seems everyone is on some pill and that eventually gets washed into the ground water.

Like ground beef (which is made up of 200 cows, some of which were fed dead dogs and cats from a shelter, waste-laden chicken newspaper with droppings on it and far worse) ... well, like ground feef, our drinking water is now contaminated with everyone's meds.

This is the next great drug problem in America.

You have to change the culture and the mind set before you can fix the problems:

Racism
Slavery
Baby Termination
70's NHL goons vs. Soviet Army Team
Trade debt with a certain Asian country
MTV morals
Sports and Steroids

There's no silver bullet I'm afraid. Perhaps banishment for life from MLB.

Just my two cents ...

"...something has colonized him..." ???

Something has colonized somebody.

That's why it's called Ant COLONY.

Well Senator Mitchell perfomed a necessary task but unfortunately this is not Northern Ireland and his credibility suffered in my eyes. He has offered a limited document which scope has been Yankee clubhouse, Met clubhouse and the Balco info. He did take the trail if it led to other teams but his focus was on the easier targets as mentioned above. I will not as a Yankee fan dismiss the findings which do hurt and taint somewhat our achievements of the reason past.

The real story is what will baseball, players, owners and fans demand of this great game to clean up its act. Even the jerks who get on this blog from our competitors know that their team dodged a bullet and their clubhouse was not free of such issues but they believe its an opportunity to throw some stones. And they have missed the real point of the Mitchell Report.

Just listening to other people, the one comment that seems to be universal is THANK GOD JETER ISN'T ON THE LIST!

Diane -

if mattingly done what bonds did yes the reception would be different

Okay taken over his mind. Poor Clemens, beaning Piazza for taking him deep, throwing the bat at him and then having a brawl at his son's Little League game. Tha'ts strange, yes? No? Maybe?

If you take steroids you get some kind of outburst of anger now and then.

Roids Rage.

The colonization continues ...

BTW my favorite episode of The X Files was called "Colony."

On this Blog the issues are covered with passion and in great detail.

We spent countless keystrokes on Johan and nothing happened.

Now with the steroids not much will happen because again, you have to change the Big Pharma culture and economic incentives before you can fix this very real problem.

Look at Long Island and let's say litter. How many soda cans were thrown away AFTER the 5 cent deposit was put on each can, as compared to before hand?

In the Middle Ages you paid the sheriff to protect your cow.

No cow = no milk.

Today there is an economic incentive for crime: prison food, prison labor, prison clothes, appelate court judges, parole officers, Bad Boys Cops TV Show, anarcho-tyranny of the law abiding people, gated communities, burglar alarms, car alarms, guns and ammo, bodyguards, electronic survelliance, a legion of lawyers, law schools bla bla bla.

As such in 2007 ... No cow, no problem, you can get food stamps for Nestle Strawberry Quick. Run up to the Quickie Mart and get whatever you need.

I suppose it's all about the money in the end and always has been.

Call it "The History of Greed."

there is no known just speculated false test on Bonds , CLemens is just as guilty as bonds aside from the testimony, but what I'm saying is this Bonds has been tried and hung in public court for many years the minute a report comes out with some "GOOD OLE BOYS" the pity or improper reporting card comes out.

I for one challenge this report as well as the reporting on Bonds.

there is too many holes in both and this would make MLB look real bad.

The Bottom line is that these players or offenders as well as victims they are preyed upon when injured and told this stuff would make you feel better quicker and Use MD terms and all.

If bonds story was the same as Andy the conviction would still be the same.

If the report only named bonds then there will be no argument. No "ahh he did it becasue he was hurt excuse " no what is the difference between a cortizione and a HGH none of that he would have been called a cheater.

Mike From Jersey,

Well said bro!

Bronx Bomber,

Why is it that you go to great lengths to defend Bonds and use every chance to create a racial problem when there is none?

Bonds was indicted , these players on yesterday's list haven't been indicted and possibly won't as much heresay seems to be involved.

So how is this a racial problem? Are you on Al Sharpton's mailing list? Still think OJ was innocent and Tawana Brawley did no wrong? It goes both ways and it is pretty lame to use "The race card" to prove your point.

Again people on here is accusing the Red Sox.

Why ??

jealously , paranoid , why pass judgement on another organization. You all on here that is doing that is making Nudge look correct.

You have to expect some of the accused to be Yankee at one point or another. this is a High Profile team , if it was our minor leagues then I would be worried.

Again people on here is accusing the Red Sox.

Why ??

jealously , paranoid , why pass judgement on another organization. You all on here that is doing that is making Nudge look correct.

You have to expect some of the accused to be Yankee at one point or another. this is a High Profile team , if it was our minor leagues then I would be worried.

Bomber,

You could be right, but as I said, the cases AT THIS POINT are so different that it is only speculation either way.

Your point that people (outside his own fan base) were ready to believe that Bonds was guilty is certainly true. I don't know whether it was due to racial bias or due to dislike most people had for his very unpleasant personality.

I think a more similar case than Clemens or Mattingly is that of Rocker, an equally repellent personality but white.

Not a soul that I am aware of has defended him and everyone is ready to accept without further ado that this obnoxious person is guilty. Not because there is more evidence against him but because most people will be glad to see him taken down. Like Bonds.

Realist -

I am being your name REAL. WTF proof is there against Bonds , some DUMPED WOMAN TESTIMONY F**K OUTTA HERE WITH THAT. SOME nerd ass reporter's BOOK , F**K outta here with that !

WHERE I FROM You accused NO MUTHERF**KIN one without PROOF i don;t care if the person is a A$$ who do not accuse without proof, and like I said if it was only BONDS on this report Judgement would have been served and that is WROOOOONG,

People giving Andy the pity card why?????

You come strong when you accuse.

I said it all along this report and Bonds PUBLIC conviction is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

I seen many people get locked up due to what some loser said and after years of lockdown get realeased because the skeezer was lying or the CORPORATION etc.

Brother to some it is racial you can hide from it all you want it is what it is in this country.

That is why the new generation like you and me and other fair minded people on here needs to use clarity when Judging someone.

If bonds is guilty then he is f**king guilty and the same disgust will towards Andy if he is guilty especially if he uses religion as his shield

ROCKER is not BONDS,
He is a Proven JERK and say things way against charactor,

I'm not defending Bonds due to race, I defend on evidence.

Giambi ratted on himself , conseco ratted on himself , so there is no pity . J gibbons said screw the report yes I did it, NO INJURY < NO DOCTOR , F**K it I DID IT Punish me

THAT IS BEING REAL how Gibbons did it.

You don't accuse people without proof.

Bomber,

What pity is Petitte and co getting? Are you that blind with your own pregudices that you can't see the simple fact that Bonds was tied up with BALCO and perjured himself involving the investigation? Are you that blind that HE is the reason this latest event occured?

You make me laugh! The players named yesterday aren't guilty of sh*t yet. We may never know who was and who was brought into the "witch hunt"? Either way , NONE of these recent players has perjured themselves YET...........Bonds has and imo ALL he is guilty of. THE majority of players used it , no doubt! Black , White , Hispanic..........all races and NONE are being unfairly persucuted for it.

there is no known just speculated false test on Bonds , CLemens is just as guilty as bonds aside from the testimony
-----

You're kidding, right?

"Evidence" on Roger Clemens: someone, with nothing to back it up, said he did it.

Evidence on Bonds: First, he admitted it! Hey, that's pretty good proof, huh? Second: EVERY SINGLE PERSON ASSOCIATED WITH BALCO HAS ADMITTED TO TAKING STEROIDS: Giambi, Sheffield, the other baseball players called to testify, Marion Jones, Kelli White and Tim Montgomery. EVERY SINGLE ONE but Bonds. Does that make ANY sense? So everyone was doing it but him? Give me a break.

There's also a treasure-trove of evidence collected from BALCO that clearly points to Bonds being a user: all the tests they performed on Giambi, Jones, et al., testing their blood for steroid traces and things like that also exist for Bonds. There are numerous papers filled with notes about what he was using and when (using code words).

AND, let us not forget, his best buddy and clubhouse pal -- who went to jail instead of testifying (that is, LYING) for him -- was a known steroid dealer!

You're going to compare that mountain of evidence to what was in the Mitchell report about Clemens? Ridiculous.

Bonds was with steroid dealers and makers, and everyone else involved in BALCO has admitted they were using steroids supplied by it. It doesn't take a genius to put the pieces together on this one.

To take it further people saying Roger was on ROIDS and having a rage in game 2. I say BS if you remember The Mets was talking a whole lot of mess about fighting and all that. All roger do was exposed the Mets and Piazza for the P***Y's they are.

No he did not he said he was given a cream which he did not know was roids and the same with Sheff , so stop it right there.

Just like Justice said if it had not been in the form of a needle he would have taken it. so even in Guilt these players was FOOLED into thinking something was legal when it was'nt and in FACT Sheff was schooled by a third party BONDs who himself did not know until EDUCATED on what the F**K the cream was.

In other words these players are victims just like a woman is a victim when told her drink is just a lil added spice when in fact it is drugged.

When Dealing with drug dealers LIES are placed in order for you to obtain the product.

If he admitted it then he would not be charged with PERJURY.

Like I said you do not hold court against NO ONE without solid proof. ok? if that was the case then Bonds would have been done in. saw how fast Palmero was whisked in.

ADDICTION -

These players are addicts truth be told.

SO what he has Steroid dealers in his cirlce annnnnnd ???

you probally have mafia in your family or what ever would that make you bad.

Realist,

People are applying the pity card on Andy due to the HE WAS INJURED perception.

What everyone seams to forget is that this was suppossed to be a report about all of baseball. Where is the "all" in this report? We knew about BALCO and Randomski (I hope no relationship to the Massapequa football coach)Mitchell then had two forced witnesses give information to him. One supplied cancelled checks, the other gave heresay information. So that's your big investigation? No wonder this man was a US Senator. What a waste of time. Mitchell you are disgrace. I really wonder why he pulled out of being nominated for Supreme Court Justice. I wonder what baggage that man was carrying. It's ok for him to smear people? what about his past history? What a joke!

Can I just say this is a GREAT day to be working on a sports show!!!!

And the people on this board will be happy to know that I, Sully, King of Red Sox fans, pitched a segment for Miller breaking down how the Mitchell Report was a Red Sox conspiracy and that they'll be naming Yogi Berra, Bucky Dent and Lou Gehrig before its all done...

and that the last page said "And thankfully no Red Sox used anything" and then recommended suspending A-Rod but reactivating him in October.

Bad for baseball... good for my checking account!

Bronx Bomber, Don't go racial on us? What's with the Mafia references. Their are a lot of Italians who get real pissed off when people start that stuff. Bonds is a criminal. Perjury is a crime. A really good friend of mine has just served 6 months for it. It's real. This is not the time for racial BS

Thanks Sully!

First smile in a while on here.

LOL... "...reactivate him in October..."

;-)

this is interested

By PAUL ELIAS, Associated Press Writer
Fri Dec 14, 6:16 AM ET

SAN FRANCISCO - Barry Bonds and his supporters often pointed to the fact that the home run king never flunked a drug test administered by Major League Baseball. The Mitchell Report suggests why: it appears Bonds received advanced warning of two tests in 2003.

According to the report, Bonds was tested for steroid use on May 28 and June 4, 2003 as part of MLB's first attempt at formal detection. The report cites a San Francisco Chronicle report that it had obtained a tape recording of Bonds' personal trainer Greg Anderson boasting he received advanced notice of the testing. Anderson purportedly said on the recording that he was told the 2003 testing would occur in late May or early June.

"Therefore," the report said, "if the report of this conversation is accurate Anderson correctly predicted the dates of testing, at least for his client Barry Bonds."

Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell released the report Thursday, culminating a 20-month investigation into steroids in baseball. Bonds was mentioned 103 times in the 409-page report.

Mitchell said Bonds, under investigation for perjury at the time, declined to talk to him. "Under these circumstances his refusal to talk with me was understandable," Mitchell said.

Bonds was charged Nov. 15 with perjury and obstruction of justice related to that December 2003 testimony before a federal grand jury.

But in the report, Mitchell said San Francisco Giants owner Peter Magowan told him that he asked Bonds in 2004 if he took steroids.

"According to Magowan, Bonds responded that when he took the substances he did not know they were steroids but he later learned they were," Mitchell wrote.

"Bonds said that he took these substances for a period of time to help with his arthritis, as well as sleeping problems he attributed to concern about his father's failing health," Mitchell wrote. "To emphasize that he was not hiding anything Bonds added that he used these substances in the clubhouse in the plain view of others."

Magowan said the chat came during the end of telephone conversation with the slugger in February 2004.

"Magowan recalled asking Bonds whether this was what he had told the grand jury," Mitchell wrote. "Bonds replied yes. Magowan also asked Bonds if he was telling the truth, and Bonds said he was."

Magowan reported to Mitchell that Bonds said he discontinued use of the substances after a short time because they didn't work.

Two days after interviewing Magowan, Mitchell said lawyers for the Giants owner called investigators on his staff.

"Magowan's lawyer explained that his client misspoke when he said that Bonds had said, during their February 2004 telephone call, that he later learned the substances he had taken were steroids," Mitchell wrote. "According to his lawyer, Magowan could only recall with certainty that (1) Bonds had said he did not knowingly take steroids, and (2) what Bonds said to Magowan during the call was consistent with what Magowan later read in the San Francisco Chronicle about Bonds' reported grand jury testimony."

Bonds' lead criminal defense attorney Allen Ruby didn't return a telephone call Thursday.

At least two members of Bonds' inner circle talked with Mitchell, including Harvey Shields, another of the slugger's personal trainers. Shields' interview with Mitchell appears to be consistent with Bonds' grand jury testimony that he thought he was taking legal supplements that were purchased over-the-counter rather than powerful steroids that are legal only with a doctor's prescription.

Mitchell said Shields told him Bonds rubbed a cream on his elbow he thought to be "arthritis cream" and a translucent liquid dubbed the "clear" that Bonds dropped under his tongue. Shields said he believed the clear was flaxseed oil and that Bonds used the clear "more than once."

Mitchell said Shields "claimed to have entered into a confidentiality agreement with Bonds in 2006 that he believed precluded him from disclosing certain information to our investigation."

Please... everyone knew Clemens was on it, right?
Nobody is playing the "NOT CLEMENS!" card, right?

Single most competitive person on the planet is called "over the hill" by management and suddenly grows muscles faster than a p*ssed off Bill Bixby, puts up better numbers in his late 30s than he did in his late 20s and looks like a physically different person all because of his... a hem... workout (and was a teammates of Canseco in Boston and Toronto)

When people were railing against Bonds everyone said "It's obvious! Look at him!" Same with Clemens.

And before everyone starts dogpiling on me (remember some people on this board think I have a Damon vendetta for whatever reason) let me say that Clemens was my favorite player with the Red Sox when he was there, I used to wear a Blue Jays hat the days he pitched for Toronto and I rooted for him hard when he was with the Astros.

AND I think BOTH Clemens and Bonds belong in the Hall of Fame... no questions asked.

But please.
I'm not buying the coincidence that everyone just LOOOOVVVVED working out with Roger... and a steroid dealing trainer from Toronto that they imported in.

He used it. We all know he did.

Just like we all know Varitek, Ortiz, Vaughn, Manny, Trot, Nomar and Millar all probably used something.

It was the era.