Mattingly, Vizcaino talk
Still no definitive news on Johan Santana, though various reports are that the Red Sox are close to getting him. We'll update as solid news comes in.
Don Mattingly is here in one of his first official capacities as Dodgers (correction, hitting) coach. Sorry for calling him the bench coach -- lack of sleep makes brain cells function poorly. Friendly as always, and happy to say hello to all his Yankees associates. Probably a bit of an adjustment for him coming to one of these things as a Dodger after a life in pinstripes.
I talked to Luis Vizcaino's agent, Bean Stringfellow, a little while ago. He said of Vizcaino: "He made a point to me that he does like New York." However, he said nothing is imminent and that he is also talking to the Mets, White Sox, Royals and Dodgers, along with the Yankees. Stringfellow also believes that Vizcaino can get a 3-4 year contract along the lines of Scott Linebrink, who inked a four-year, $19-million pact with the White Sox. At those dollars, the Yankees are likely to be out.
A source indicated that Chien-Ming Wang's agent, Alan Nero, was interested in talking to the Yankees about a long-term contract. However, the Yankees told Nero to make them an opening offer. That was the end of any discussions.
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From Waswatching Blog
Steve Lombardi analyze two pitchers
http://waswatching.com/
Lester Vs. Hughes
I was recently asked to pick between Jon Lester and Phil Hughes. So, here goes...
Lester will be 24-years old next month whereas Hughes will be is 22-years old in about 7 months.
Lester throws left-handed and Hughes throws right-handed.
Lester was the 57th overall pick in the June 2002 Draft and Hughes was the 23rd overall pick in the June 2004 Draft.
As a 22-year old, in 2006, Lester made 15 big league starts and threw 81.3 IP. He faced 367 batters and allowed an OPS of .815 in those PA.
As a 21-year old, in 2007, Hughes made 13 big league starts and threw 72.7 IP. He faced 306 batters and allowed an OPS of .699 in those PA.
In terms of a "rookie" season, Hughes gets the edge here - as he was younger and allowed a lower OPS.
To date, Lester has faced 1,193 minor league batters - walking 203 (17%) and whiffing 446 (37%).
To date, Hughes has faced 1,030 minor league batters - walking 66 (6%) and whiffing 311 (30%).
Hughes gets the edge here for "command" - but, perhaps, Lester may get the edge in "stuff."
Into sabermetrics? Check out Lester vs. Hughes over the last two seasons in the majors (via the CBE):
BASERUNNERS/9 IP vs. the league average
ERA vs. the league average
STRIKEOUTS/WALKS vs. the league average
GS BR/9 IP ERA SO/BB IP
Jon Lester 26 -1.39 -.14 -.53 144.1
Phil Hughes 13 1.30 0.05 0.00 72.2
Again, Hughes has been better, so far, at the big league level to date. Granted, Lester has been also recovering from cancer during this time. So, factor that in, if you wish.
Still, based on the data available, it appears that Phil Hughes is the better of these two pitching prospects. Hughes has shown greater command and performance - and he's two years younger than Lester. If given the choice to pick one over the other, based on the numbers, I would pick Hughes, today.
Biz:
That's very interesting information. In the end I'm going to stick with something I said on the last thread - the Yankees are offering the better player, but it would appear that to the Twins the Sox are offering the better package.
I 'm sure the Yankees have other irons in the fire but this trade has them halted in any other pursuits. Even with Hank's words of moving on/forward. So, I guess their is still some possibility of a Yankee 11th hour move which I could care less about especially if the Twins have the mind set that the Red Sox's package is better.
I don't believe the Twins think the Redsox package is better.
I think they believe they can gamble on the Yankee's reputation of throwing away their prospects for big ticket items and with an aggressive new owner they've got the Golden Goose on this one.
I think I'm beginning to see what is happening either way we get screwed.
Bill Smith and Theo know the thought of Santana and Beckett in the same rotation for the next 6 yrs puts an enormous amount of leverage in their hands...
Smith also knows he's going to lose
Theo knows
about this
I'm reading that the Angels have been talking to the Twins and putting some pretty good players/prospects on the table.
If he goes to the Angels, they will be out of the Cabrera running and frankly, I thought they needed hitting more than pitching but Santana is a rare commodity and I don't blame them.
Why exactly do the Yanks have to give up Kennedy and Hughes, but the Sox dont have to give Ellsbury and Lester
I dont get it
I could've sworn Donnie is now the Dodgers hitting coach?
I think they believe they can gamble on the Yankee's reputation of throwing away their prospects for big ticket items and with an aggressive new owner they've got the Golden Goose on this one.
I think I'm beginning to see what is happening and either way we get screwed.
Bill Smith and Theo know the thought of Santana and Beckett in the same rotation for the next 6 yrs puts an enormous amount of leverage in their hands...
Smith also knows he's going to lose Johan for 2 draft picks so all Theo must do is beat the teams who are not the Yankees and/or those 2 potential draft picks.
Smith and Theo are both waiting for the Yanks to drop the next blue chip while putting together just enough the beat the next best offer which I have to think can only be the Mets with Moreno seeming hellbent on Miguel Cabrera.
Since Omar has virtually nothing in the way of young pitchers even close to Lester all Theo has to do is beat Mike Pelfrey and his mouth guard and wait for Hank and Cashman to panic and throw down Kennedy/Joba/Cano whatever.
It's win/win for both of them.
They could do this until they bleed us absolutely dry and what do they lose?
Worst case for Theo-He loses Santana, saves 150 million and gets Cashman to burn his entire system to the ground in the process.
Worst case for Smith-He takes the chance the Yankees stay put and gets Lester and some decent/good prospects for a player that he can't sign next year.
Until Moreno comes in they've got us over a barrel.
Jeff,
He is, Torre hired someone else to be the bench coach. Just an oops on Kat's part I think.
Chris
My 17:33 post is my latest theory to answer your question about the Kennedy and Hughes Vs. Lester and Garbage...
Michael and Chris:
It's simpler than that. Free agents and other GMs have two prices when they are shopping on the open market. The regular price and "the Yankee price."
It's been going on like this for years and it looks like it will go on for the foreseeable future. The only way to deal with it is to walk away. Hank should trust his instincts on this Santana deal.
It stinks to high Heaven.
Either way Hank would have played it... it would just have been bad news for us. I hate how this went down only cause the soxs got him pretty cheap but I'm confident in our young pitchers. We'll be alright.
Ed
I agree to a point but the problem is the Yanks lose if he goes to Boston and they lose if they give up what Smith and Theo think they'll give up.
It's extortion until Moreno gets in the fight or the Dodgers decide they can fork over 150 million.
I really hope this blows up in both their faces.
Micheal do you know a guy by the name pacheco?
Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks Jim.
Theo is Michael Corleone....
You think if the Red Sox really do get Santana, would then spin Matsuzaka off somewhere else?
To have 150 million wrapped up in Santana-2 more years Beckett will get 150-200 million. That's a lot of money for 2 pitchers.
CO,
Theo could never be Michael Corleone..............the bloodlines don't match ;-)
Cas
Come on man nearly every baseball analyst this side Steve Phillips agree the two offers are not equal until they either include either both Lester/Ellsbury or Bucholz.
You should sipping a celebratory beverage with fellow members of The Nation to celebrate Theo's Heist...
Congrats ;-)
oh believe me Phuck, I am...especially if the Sox keep Ellsbury and Bucholz.
Looks like Detroit will get Cabrera & Willis....not bad
All times ET 6:20 p.m., from Peter Gammons
• The Tigers have won the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes. The Marlins get six players -- Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller, catcher Mike Rabelo and three minor league prospects -- for the slugging third baseman
That's going to be a killer lineup if they stay healthy
Yikes!...it sure is...AND the Angels may now decide to go after Santana loaded for bear.
Why am I not worried???????????? Well other than the joy my newborn will give me...............
The Yanks have played the sell the future for now with little results to NO RESULTS for 7 years...I am eager to see the reverse regardless of the outcome. Atleast it will cost little but patience and hopefully growth :-)
Detroit done................
Now let Boston and Anaheim(sp?) slug it out...........
Well,
I'm not real sure why the Angels would be in on the Santana thing....they dont really need pitching...but on the other hand, I guess the same could be said for the Sox. Clearly, the Angels have more of a need for a power bat or two, but who knows.
Guys I would be more worried about the Tigers right now than Boston - that lineup with Cabrera is sick.
Cas, as for why the Angels would be after Santana - it's simple. If your offense is suspect the best way to win is by increasing your pitching staff. Plus a surplus of pitchers means they can move someone not in a Santana deal (Jared Weaver) for a really good third baseman or other power hitter who might be available - Lance Berkman perhaps.
CO,
Maybe to drive up the price???? Who knows?
Of all the teams that "seemingly" needed a stud starter , NY was the one. I feel Minn. misplayed that Petitte would return and hence wants to include another to continue to play two warring factions against each other...jmho.
Tigers also get Willis in that deal - who while he stunk last year, might do better pitching for a team that actually has something to play for.
Chip,
You are right on the mark...the Tiggers will be the team to watch in 08. This trade made them very very formidable.
I am interested to see how Dontrelle performs in the AL.
Detroit isn't exactly a hitters park is it? or have they changed the dimensions a bit since the days when Juan Gonzalez complained about it?
Willis will need at least one year to acclimate to the American Leauge. Thats if he can at all...Cabrera , on the other hand , is a cooooooooooooooo...............though they sold the farm , imo.
No cas Theo is not Michael Corleone more like Fredo Corleone with the signings of Drew,Lugo and Dice K and the trade for Gagne to keep him away from the Yankees.
Now Hank on the other hand told Boros to shove it and got A-Rod back on his terms minus Boros whose rep and ego took a big hit.
He also called the Twins bluff with their feeble attempt to hold up the Yankees using the Red Sox and the weak package they offered. Being a Boston fan you have to know that they shot their load last year on the above mentioned slugs and can't afford Santana unless they cut/waive Manny.
By the way THIS is why Hank and Co. wanted a time table on this. Now that the Angels and Dodgers are out of the Cabrera mix both are in on Santana and either or both can offer vastly more than the Yankees.
Dodger:
Clayton Kershaw
Matt Kemp
Andy LaRoche
Angels:
Reggie Willits
Howie Kendrick
Ervin Santana/Joe Saunders/Jared Weaver
As for other fall out from the Tiger deal - I would look for them to deal Brandon Inge for a solid reliever or two. Or maybe some prospects to replace the ones they surrendered in this deal.
Chip the Angeles offer would include a real good 3B and ML ready pitcher plus other prospects. Think Nick Adenhart and Brandon Wood. Just those two would be a big step up from the junk Boston was offering and maybe [I hope not] get the Yankees to increase their offer
LMAO.....ok R U 4 Real....whatever...and you, my friend are Moe Green....;) ;).......
Amazingly, RU...in spite of Theo's obvious stupidity, the Sox won the title....go figure eh?
Not amazingly, you missed the point.
They won in spite of Lugo,Drew and to an extent Dice K.all signed by Theo.
They won because they signed an average relief pitcher from Japan so Dice wouldn't be homesick and got very lucky in the playoffs. Also ,Beckett had a career year. No thanks to Theo because he didn't make the Beckett trade.
Some more Theo/fredo trades Casual Observer:
1-Meredith and Bard to Pods for ha ha Mirabelli
2-Arryo to Reds for Pena
3-Pena to Nats for a bag of baseballs
4-Renteria plus 11mil to Braves for Marte
5-Marte and Shoppach to Indians for ha ha Crisp and two bats
6-Gabbard, Murphy and prospect to Rangers for ha ha gagne.
All that remains is Crisp. Yea,Theo is Michael Corleone and you are the obnoxious drunken turd who thinks Ellsbury is a 5-tool player and still can't spell B-U-C-H-H-O-L-Z.
Right on R U it's about time someone put the out of touch homer in his place. One thing being a fan but CO takes the word "boorish" to a new level.