Someone asked for all the winter league numbers, so here they are. And if they don't match exactly with the few I put up earlier, it's because I updated some of the Dominican numbers so there's an extra game included:
RHP Scott Patterson (1-1, 1.02 ERA) has allowed only 2ER in 17.2IP over 15 appearances with the Cardenales de Lara of the Venezuelan Winter League (2BB, 14K, .213 opp. avg.).
SS Alberto Gonzalez is batting .362 (17-for-47), hitting safely in nine of his 12 games with the Bravos de Margarita of the Venezuelan Winter League.
INF Wilson Betemit has hit in seven of his 10 games with Leones del Escogido of the Dominican Winter League and is batting .357 overall (10-for-28) with 2HR and 7RBI.
RHP Jose Veras (0-0, 0.00) has not allowed a run in four relief appearances (3.2IP, 2BB, 6K) with Leones del Escogido.
OF Austin Jackson completed his Hawaiian Baseball League campaign tied for the league lead with five triples and 25 runs scored…also ranked second with 18 extra-base hits, tied for third with 10
doubles and 8SB, and ranked fourth with 22RBI…reached base safely in 33 of 39 games, including a league-high 24 consecutive games from 10/6-11/9.
RHP Jeff Karstens led Team USA, going 2-0 with a 0.69ERA over 13.0IP (10H, 1ER, 9K, 1BB) as the Americans won the IBAF World Cup…tossed 7.0 innings, allowing 1ER (5H, 7K, 0BB) and earning the win
in Team USA’s quarterfinal victory against Korea on 11/16…overall, with Team USA in tournament and exhibition play, Karstens recorded a 1.37 ERA (19.2IP, 3ER) with 17 strikeouts and just one walk
while holding opponents to a .194 batting average (14-for-72).
OF Brett Gardner hit safely in 24 of 26 games and reached base safely in all but one contest, playing for the Peoria Javelinas in the Arizona Fall League…scored 10 runs over his final five games (11/9-
15)…led the AFL with 16 stolen bases and 27 runs scored, while ranking second with 32 hits.
Organizational Winter Stats (New York Yankees) Individual Statistics As of: 11/26/2007 12:51 AM EST
GI ---GAMES BY POSITION---
BATTERS CLUB LEAGUE AVG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO SB CS OBP SLG OPS SF SAC HBP DP 1B 2B 3B SS OF C E
# Betemit, Wilson Leones del Escogido DWL .357 9 28 6 10 0 0 2 7 7 0 10 0 0 .486 .571 1.057 0 0 0 0 0 0 6 0 0 0 2
Cervelli, Francisco Cardenales de Lara VWL .235 9 17 1 4 1 0 0 0 8 0 6 0 0 .480 .294 .774 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 2
# Corona, Reegie Peoria Javelinas AFL .188 14 48 7 9 3 0 1 8 7 0 10 4 0 .291 .313 .603 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 14 0 0 2
* Gardner, Brett Peoria Javelinas AFL .343 26 108 27 37 0 2 0 10 17 0 17 16 1 .433 .380 .813 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 23 0 1
Gonzalez, Alberto Bravos de Margarita VWL .362 12 47 6 17 1 1 1 7 0 0 2 1 1 .375 .489 .864 0 0 1 2 0 0 0 12 0 0 1
Gonzalez, Edwar Cardenales de Lara VWL .278 22 54 3 15 2 0 1 7 1 0 10 2 2 .298 .370 .669 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 16 0 1
Jackson, Austin Honolulu Sharks HWB .271 39 133 25 36 10 5 3 22 18 0 38 8 1 .368 .489 .856 1 1 3 2 0 0 0 0 37 0 1
* Manzanillo, Gerson Bravos de Margarita VWL 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
# Mendoza, Carlos Cardenales de Lara VWL .244 30 86 15 21 3 0 1 5 12 0 18 1 0 .350 .314 .664 0 1 2 2 0 1 28 1 0 0 6
* Miranda, Juan Peoria Javelinas AFL .295 22 78 16 23 5 0 5 17 16 0 18 0 0 .423 .551 .974 1 0 2 3 21 0 0 0 0 0 1
# Suttle, Brad Honolulu Sharks HWB .100 29 80 7 8 3 0 1 6 15 0 30 0 1 .250 .175 .425 0 0 1 2 0 0 26 0 0 0 3
# Vechionacci, Marcos Navegantes del Magallanes VWL .307 27 88 12 27 5 2 3 12 4 3 12 1 0 .337 .511 .848 0 1 0 2 1 0 20 0 0 0 4
PITCHERS CLUB LEAGUE W-L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR HB BB IBB SO BK WP GO/AO DP WHIP AVG AB TBF SF GF HLD
Claggett, Anthony Honolulu Sharks HWB 1-1 6.04 14 0 0 0 0 1 22.1 29 16 15 1 1 9 0 14 0 5 0.93 1 1.70 .305 95 107 0 4 0
Jackson, Steven Peoria Javelinas AFL 0-1 5.63 9 0 0 0 0 0 16.0 21 10 10 2 0 7 1 19 0 1 1.64 0 1.75 .304 69 77 1 0 1
Karstens, Jeff Team USA 2-0 1.37 4 4 0 0 0 0 19.2 14 3 3 2 0 1 0 17 0 0 -- 0 0.76 .194 72 74 0 0 0
Kontos, George Honolulu Sharks HWB 3-4 3.71 8 7 0 0 0 0 34.0 34 16 14 1 0 10 0 42 0 3 0.97 3 1.29 .264 129 140 1 1 0
* Kozlowski, Ben Estrellas de Oriente DWL 0-0 5.00 12 0 0 0 1 2 9.0 14 8 5 0 2 6 0 7 0 0 1.22 1 2.22 .368 38 48 1 1 2
Nova, Ivan Leones del Escogido DWL 1-0 0.00 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0.33 0 0.60 .000 5 6 0 1 0
Ohlendorf, Ross Peoria Javelinas AFL 0-0 3.52 6 0 0 0 0 0 7.2 8 3 3 0 0 4 0 3 0 0 2.50 1 1.57 .267 30 34 0 1 3
Patterson, Scott Cardenales de Lara VWL 1-1 1.02 15 0 0 0 2 3 17.2 13 2 2 1 1 2 0 14 0 0 0.54 2 0.85 .213 61 68 1 5 4
Ramirez, Edwar Tigres del Licey DWL 0-0 4.50 2 0 0 0 0 0 2.0 1 1 1 0 0 3 0 2 0 1 1.00 0 2.00 .143 7 10 0 0 1
* Soto, Edgar Aguilas del Zulia VWL 0-0 13.50 4 0 0 0 0 0 2.2 4 4 4 0 1 3 2 1 0 0 7.00 1 2.63 .364 11 15 0 2 0
Veras, Jose Leones del Escogido DWL 0-0 0.00 4 0 0 0 0 0 3.2 2 0 0 0 0 2 0 6 0 0 1.50 0 1.09 .154 13 15 0 1 1
Villalona, Bryan Leones del Escogido DWL 0-0 18.00 3 0 0 0 0 0 1.0 2 2 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1.00 0 2.00 .400 5 5 0 1 0
Whelan, Kevin Peoria Javelinas AFL 0-0 12.00 3 0 0 0 0 0 3.0 5 4 4 0 0 4 1 4 0 0 1.50 0 3.00 .357 14 18 0 0 0
White, Steven Peoria Javelinas AFL 0-1 6.23 7 3 0 0 0 0 17.1 19 14 12 2 1 6 1 11 0 1 1.32 3 1.44 .275 69 77 1 1 1
Wordekemper, Eric Peoria Javelinas AFL 1-0 2.89 8 0 0 0 1 1 9.1 8 4 3 0 0 2 0 8 0 0 0.58 0 1.07 .229 35 37 0 6 1
* left-handed; # switch-hitter AFL=Arizona Fall League; DWL=Dominican Winter League; HWB=Hawaiian Winter Baseball; VWL=Venezuelan Winter League
Comments (99)
KAT-
Thanks for the extra work. Chip will let you know if any of the numbers are in error.
Thanks Kat
Funny Roy
Quick thing: Jon Heyman on his Si.com column supposes another trade possibility for the Yankees: Dan Haren - he speculates on a trade of Al Horne, Daniel McCutchen and Jose Tabata for Haren. Would you do that if the price for Santana remains as high as it is currently - considering Haren is under control for the next 3 years at a total of $16 mil?
Or here's another option - do that trade for Haren and also send Ian Kennedy, Melky, Zach McCallister, and Dellin Bentaces to the Twins for Santana
Then you're looking at a rotation of:
Santana
Haren
Joba
Hughes
Mussina
FACT - Santana IS going to be TRADED by the Twins either now or before July 31, 2008.
FACT - Whoever gets him will make sure an EXTENSION is signed as part of the deal.
FACT - Therefore, he will not be a FA next year for us to sign.
FACT - IF the Yankees don't trade for him, then who gets him, the Sox or Anaheim?
Wake up to reality you ignorant fools!!!
Chip,
You forgot Wang, just like I did. Plug him in Mussina's spot and that rotation looks nice.
I like Haren, but I like Santana better because he's LH.
Chip,
You amaze me. How do you know about all these players.
Jon Heyman is a friend of mine and I still don't know what he or you know. My students did a thing with him for the school paper and it turned out very well. Jon is very humble and pretty funny.
I don't see two trades but one at least.
I just can't keep all the names and possibilities straight.
Looks like Rasmus and Karstens raised the bar with Team USA!
And look at all the Winter League stats to process. If I chew over them, then I think I am in too deep. Even the fans need an off season from obsessing about the team. But it's hard to pull back. The Yanks are a brand. Our brand. Did you know scientists say brand recognition starts at the age of 2 and comes before a child can understand and recognize their own name.
I will never stop rooting for the Yanks or Mets. I grew up with them.
One more thing ... about Team USA and Karstens ...
Don't forget to tell everyone what happened at the end of World War II ...
We won.
USA!
USA!
USA!
Children recognize their own names WAY WAY before the age of two, when brand recognition starts for those who are overexposed to TV (more than a half hour a day). An intelligent two-year-old whose family members converse with him has a fairly workable vocabulary of nouns at age two, including a number of names other than his own.
Sorry to allow myself to be provoked into responding to an off-topic comment. I admit that disinformation does irritate me disproportionately.
Tickalock.
To the point that I can't even type my name... :-(
Who is Chris Garcia? Someone mentioned him on another thread.
We have so many prospects it is like Crazy Eddie ...
His prices are innnnsaaaane!
If CG is better than Hughes well ... who says so? Why haven't I heard of him. He's hurt? If he is that good, well amazing news.
What about Brackman and his surgery?
I am still waiting for a list of the best propects in order.
Here is what I imagine ...
Joba
Hughes
Kennedy
Garcia
Horne
Brackman
Carpenter
Smith
Some guy in Honolulu (name someone I missed out on)
Ohlendorf
The emerging guy ...
Karstens
Then the so so guys ...
Ty Clip
Rasner
Wright
Bean(ie)
Weenie
Meanie
Who are the best and who stays or who goes?
And why no lefties.
Note to Cashman "Draft LHP's." Go to Arizona State, Baylor, Texas A&M, Miami ... don't to to Japan ...
Igawa ... no
Bedard and Kazmir archetpes ... yes
I think we should trade for or sign three of these names ...
Austin Kearns
David Eckstein
Brandon Phillips
Bard
Piazza
Josh Hamilton
Joe Ludwick
Armando Benitez
Jeremy Sowers
Bedard
Yo-Han
Kazmir of never been traded fame, well oops, just once
Ted Lilly (just kidding)
Scott Spezio (really, I am just joking)
Also remember how the Islanders brought back Al Arbour for one more game. Why not bring back Ted Williams from the cryogenic frozen state to manage one more game for the Red Sox?
Would that work? The ultimate high tech Bobble Head Doll.
That would be pretty weird!
Call it "Back from the cryogenically dead thingy ... day ..."
(God that is just so sick now they cut off his head and froze it!)
Okay I'm going now ...
Thanks Kat!
Chip,
I had heard the same deal regarding Haren...if there is a way to replace Tabata for another minor league outfielder not named Austin Jackson..I am all for it.
I also like YOUR deal for Santana! That scenario would add depth AND quality while holding on to Austin (who I believe is going to be real good) plus Joba and Hughes....now let's just get it done ;-)
Diane there is a study about this ...
The Name Brand Recognition study I refer to appears in the Journal of the American Medical Association, December 11th, 1991 ... entitled, "... Mickey Mouse and Old Joe the Camel."
It appeared in Fast Food Nation as well in the Bibliography.
Interesting concept.
I appreciate your keen intellect Diane!
Regardless, the Yanks and or Mets are in our blood and this is what we know.
I tried to root for the Cardinals very hard, but I can only root for them so much ... you have to grow up with a team you know?
I like Hughes he seems to have potential and I like seeing our own kids realize their potential in pinstripes. But somebody remind me why we are thinking of him as the second coming of the Rocket or Sandy or something. I saw him pitch quite well twice, once at the beginning and the other time at the end. Very nice but how does this translate into being untouchable?
Are we harking back to the day when he was a minor leaguer and looked like a star AMONG MINOR LEAGUERS? Or are we just overinterpreting a couple of good major league outings?
I don't feel like there's enough evidence in, so far, on this kid or Kennedy, to know whether they will ever be anything more than serviceable on the MLB level.
We saw enough of Joba to know that he can be a dominating reliever -- might be able, if it's true that he has two other plus pitches, to also dominate as a starter -- and has the personality to make it on the big stage, so I get why he's 'untouchable'.
The other two not so much. Just not enough to go on. For me.
Diane,
In my Advanced Global Journalism course I worked in something about what I call "metalanguage." People or products that transcend their intert properties or regular meanings ...
For example ...
The late Pope John Paul II ... forgiveness (of his would be killer)
Nelson Mandela ... reconciliation after Robbin Island/Church St.
Coca-Cola ... The American Way of Life
GI Joe ... WW II fighting man to peacekeeper to mercenary
Barbie ... stay at home blonde to career woman
What about the Yankees ...
What did they symbolize ...
1920's
1930's Depression Defying Team ...
1940's World War II winning spirit?
1950's Golden Age. The Mick
1960's ... latter years the nation's general angst, decline
1970's ... visionary Free Agent signings, Catfish, RJ
1980's
1990's
0000's
And how did the franchise change ...
Obviously now a global empire with biz deals in China, Manchester United ... but from the 1920's to the early 60's they were a symbol of America, like Coca Cola, a hard core symbol.
As I admire your intelligence so much, I would appreciate your input and the input of others.
Funny I never thought to bring the Yankees into the whole metalanguage lecture until just now ... after Diane's erudite post on pre 2 year old brand recognition ...
When we get to embryo recognition, we have found the Holy Grail of marketing!
Hughes is no Tom Seaver
But he's no 2006 Mussina either
That's all I need to know.
Kat:
You left out Carl Pavano's off-season bowling average in the rehab league.
Any info on how I can sign up for the Hawaiian winter ball?
Let's not forget that Hughes has already suffered two injuries in his only half-season in the major leagues. Doesn't anyone else see that as a potential red flag?? Hughes MIGHT be good, he MIGHT be great, or he MIGHT be another injury prone pitcher who will never realize his full potential. We know that Santana IS a future hall of fame pitcher in the prime of his career. Trading for Santana is like trading for a left-handed 1999 Pedro Martinez. I'd trade Hughes for that guy in a heartbeat!
Ed, I'm not sure -- I'd like to go report on Hawaiian winter ball :)
I remember a former colleague going to Puerto Rico for two weeks to cover Team USA in basketball, and there was just one game or practice a day to cover. It was not a bad assignment from what I heard!!
Your time will come Kat, once you accept that job offer from ESPN you can cover the Pro-Bowl. Just remember all of us little people who knew you when...
CHIP ,I have to say giving up all that talent for Santana is just a little to generous....Tone it down a bit and maybe you're on to something....I seriously doubt the Yanks will part company w/ Kennedy...A Haren deal given the above mentioned prospects makes far more sense...The only way the Yanks part w/ Melky is if they sign Rowand.The Yanks are not yet in a position of strength to let go of Melky .Abreu,Matsui,Damon are all 34 yrs old .Getting younger in the OF over the next 2 yrs is important.Yanks can ill afford to let go of both Cabrera and Tabata pinning their hopes on Austin Jackson.Curtis and Gardner are punch and judy hitters.
Yes Kat can cover the Pro Bowl.
The 11th Alternate ...
They sign free agents for the game!
Guys who were cut in training camp play in the Pro Bowl.
ruse!!!
Too bad I can't shout loud enough for all the oldtimers to hear
RUSE IS BACK!!!!!!
[quote]
http://redsoxprospects57174.yuku.com/topic/2348/t/Johan-Santana-Trade-Speculation.html?page=4
left coast bosox fan
I'd also add that the Sox had the best pitching in baseball last year and I also expect Shilling to improve on his 9 wins more than Wakefield declines on his 17.
If the Yankees were to accept that deal, I wouldn't be overly worried. It doesn't matter if you win games 6-3 or 6-4. Fact is, Santana vs. Wang will mean maybe 4-5 wins difference at the most in their starts. The loss of Cabrera and Kennedy and Wang's career after Santana's contract expires far outweighs that. Let the Yankees age....
From Idiot Redsox Fan- Chach Collins
The last rumor I heard is Hughes, Cabrera, and Jackson. If they trade Wang and Kennedy and Cabrera for Santana, I'm going to be pissed. Wang and Kennedy both suck and soon Wang is going to be an expensive suck. mahalo [/quote]
Dear Hank and Hal,
As much as I really respect Johan Santana and believe he could easily win us 20 games this upcoming season I don't think I want you to do it. I just do not think I could keep myself from committing suicide if he were to one way, shape or form be a major bust for us and Philip goes on to be even only a solid #2 starter. Philip really seemed to settle down this past September after coming back from his ankle injury. I mean in 5 games he had 3 wins with a 2.73 ERA. He also came into a critical game in the playoffs to hold on to a win and save Roger Clemens and the Yanks from a playoff loss. So we know he can stand the pressure. For all we know Johan could be another A-Rod in the playoffs. For once lets not steal the spotlight and bring in the big star. Lets go with Hughes. Keep Melky so he can replace Abreu in right field because I think thats where he should be anyway with that cannon of an arm. Then we can pray that one of our center field minor league prospects comes up like Jackson, Tabata, or Gardner and becomes a home grown star to help lead the team for the next 15 years.
After these past seven seasons of over paying and trading our home grown talent for big names and big hopes how about we just ride our farm system out for a few years and see what happens? Whatda Say? Lets build an actual team from the ground up with Girardi leading the way. Both our AAA and AA affiliates were at the top of their leagues this past year. That is clearly saying something. Lets see what they can do up here and if and when we find someone we really can not find a place for then you can use them to trade for more help.
Thanks Guys,
McCarthy
DIANE,
Thanks Sweetie !
You are so welcome, ruse.
Some of the old gang has regrouped and we've had some decent discussions of late. Your name has been mentioned! They'll be p****d that they weren't here when you popped up.
Don't disappear. II'll be watching... LOL.
Hughes did look awesome in the playoffs.
I read in the Post that it would take
Hughes
Kennedy
Melky
Horne
That's what Minny is initially asking, which seems a bit much.
I would make this deal is Santana were Beckett's age but he's five years older. Of those five years, two of them were Cy Young years.
I just don't know. This is a tough situation for Cash.
Chuckie,
It's nice that you call him Phillip. I remember that he told reporters early on that he preferred it, but almost everyone calls him Phil anyway.
McCarthy,
My bad! You were the one who was nice to call him Phillip!
I think I need an early night tonight.
Apologies to Chuckie also for the confusion.
Ya..aw..wn...
See you tomorrow...
Diane, I think you've mistaken my message for someone else's. I just refered to him as "Hughes." Although sometimes, I stubbornly call him Phillip.
Don't you think he, Kennedy, Horne and Melky is too much?
Ruse
How can we verify you are indeed the real "Ruse"? LOL
If it is you...
Oblige my curiosity!!
What did i usually say after posts that were seeking approval from fellow bloggers especially yourself?
I want to verify that you've indeed escaped "Ants Colony"
"RUSE"
What about Lucy?
Did she too get out alive?
They can't trade Horne, Hughes, Melky and Cano for Johan S. That is too much. Throw in Sanchez or Carpenter or Chris G. intstead of Hughes.
We don't need another Frank Viola scenario where David West, Tapani, Aguilera and the kitchen sink were sent to the Twins. And you had a Mark Langston in his prime who was just as good ... and that was another lopsided deal ...
4 for 1 for Johan is too much ... why not try for Bedard?
Kazmir is too herky jerky.
You know worst case, if Andy Pettitte comes back, we can live without Johan. What's he going to do to the payroll?
The youth movement is great, with armies of great young pitching can't we throw in Ohlendorf or someone like that and keep Horne?
I guess the Yanks know who they want to keep ...
I am going back to bed ...
Someone wrote that Ian Kennedy sucks?
He does not suck.
He was great in Little League.
He was great in high school.
He was great at the University of Spoiled Children.
He was great in the minor leagues.
He was great in his lil' stint with the Yankees.
Even freakin' Ray Charles could see that!
I hope they keep Ian!
Ant , what the **** are you on. Go to bed and get some help in the am. It might be to late but give it a shot.
Does anyone know or heard of any news regarding Andy Phillips' rehabilitation from his wrist injury? Thanks in advance.
As the talks heat up with the Twins about the trade of Johan so does the speculation of the value to achieve the trade.
The Yankees will have to give up Hughes or Kennedy plus a high level prospect from AA/AAA and Melky to get this deal done. My hopes are Hughes and Cano are not part of the package. That Kennedy/Melky plus AA/AAA is enough but this a fan's hope for the best possible scenario with the trade. If we keep Hughes and Cano then the youth movement is still ongoing. Also, I believe Melky is all but gone from the Yankee roster. He's special but very replaceable.
Another wish is Mussina packaged to Philly or Pittsburgh for relief help whether now help or future. Pittsburgh would want financial assitance but Philly could swallow his salary.
If all above fails, I still like Bedard and Kazmir especially Kazmir. I have watched him often and he's special and has made the grade with his ability.
Looking at a rotation from the above possibilities it would be awesome and put us right back into real WS contention.
The truth is Cashman has built up the farm system to do exactly what this off season is heading for and that is trades of prospects to get immediate help for the team. One blogger said it all when he indicated we can't have a 9 man rotation. So, lets move and make this a great Holiday season for the Yankee fans.
Kat - thanks for the added information.
"Someone"
PHUCKER
It is indeed "me" you know what I'm saying!
If the Haren trade talk has any legs at all ,it would make sense the Yanks part w/ Wang and a prospect for Santana.My feeling is we've seen the best and worse of Wang.Santana and Haren would be a considerable upgrade barring injury.
Santana
Haren
Joba
Ian
Hughes
They still could resign Pettitte.They deal Mussina.This is getting interesting !
wow....
I would offer wang as well.
it never dawn on me as to why the team never threw his name up if they was so sold on Hughes. Honestly I think Hughes health issues last year scared the FO.
so would you all trade Wang, melky for Santana?
People cannot read between the lines of Ant's post's there be some sense to it. Ant knows what he is doing and is F88king with your heads haha.
From Boston Fan Perspective on Johan- Here's Chad Finn idiots comments on Yankees getting Santana
[quote]
http://touchingallthebases.blogspot.com/
5. You know your perspective as a Red Sox fan has undergone a healthy change when you hear reports that the Yankees are in trade discussions with the Twins for ace Johan Santana, and your initial reaction is something along the lines of this: Huh. I guess we'll just have to keep Buchholz and Ellsbury then. Seriously, it's a refreshingly satisfying feeling to know that the Yankees are chasing the Sox now, and in order to get the 28-year-old two-time Cy Young winner, they'll have to give up some of that quality youth (hopefully Philip Hughes and Robinson Cano) that their ancient, thin roster so desperately needs.[/quote]
RUSE!!!! Is it really you? Have you moved from CA or something?
If it's you, welcome back. If it's someone stealing the moniker- sorry friend, but that one has been retired, along with "Lucy".
Anyway, I don't know if I would include Wang in a trade for Santana and I'm not sure Minnesota would be all that impressed by the offer. Poor Wang has probably the worst reputation among 19 game winners I've ever seen. Think of it, he won 19 games two seasons in a row and yet most of us Yankee fans cringed at the thought of him being the # 1 pitcher in the playoffs. I would rather see him get slotted back in the rotation at least one, preferably two spots and watch him win a bunch of games when not pitching against the opponents best pitcher. Regardless of how we feel about him, the kid has won 19 games, two seasons in a row and had good success in a year when Tom Verducci predicted he would have all sorts of trouble because he had pitched so many innings the season before. Does anyone remember that? Verducci had all kinds of statistical evidence to support this but Wang defied the odds.
Also, keep in mind that not many of us ever heard of Wang before he came up. Same for Cano and Melky, yet they're the ones who have had success. We all heard of Brandon Claussen for years and we waited for him, pined for him and .....bust.
We are so rich in young pitchers and so thin in young outfielders, why not throw a couple of second line pitching prospects into these deals and try to hold on to Melky?
Jon K- Minny needs to replace Torii Hunter so they're going to want Melky real bad in my opinion. I'm a little worried about Cano's reaction if Melky is traded as they are very close friends. We all saw how Santana reacted when Luis Castillo was traded....he flipped!
I rather keep Austin than melky
Minnesota has no interest in Wang-he will soon be arbirtration eligible, unless they took him in a trade and dealt him somewhere else.
I have hard time giving up Hughes. He handled himself very well last year as a 21 year old rookie in NY. I have a bad feeling that if they get Santana he will blow out his arm. Keep in mind, half of his starts have been in the climate controlled Metrodome. Pitching those night games in April and early May in the Bronx will be alot more taxing on him.
So Santana (1 game out of five) is worth a starting outfield every day of Abreu, Damon, and Godzilla? And when one or two of them get hurt? Bring back Bernie?
I would say Santana is worth 20 wins, post season competence and a ripple effect on the pitching staff in a positive way. The Yanks will do something else in the OF to get better as well, don't think if they trade Melky that their OF is set w/ Abreu, Damon and Matsui, expect them to make another move like signing Rowand, Cameron (if he'd take a one year deal) or someone else come early spring training.
Yanksfan -
NY has the same fears regarding Hughes. and is very nervous about having three starters of rookie nature .
Let me ask you all this.
what happens if they do not pan out. I could see it now , Half of the folks on here would be flipping the script.
I have a feeling that even if all three is kept that ONE of them will end up in the pen.
I hear again people speaking about the 90's Yankees and depth .
True but lets remember one thing, Only one starter was home grown the rest was puzzle fillers from different teams.
The issue is the rooks along with Mussina and the ill effect of the playoff's on Wang and wether or not Kennedy can pitch and the effect of Joba in the rotation and the health of Hughes.
With all that said your only solid starter is Wang and we do not want him anchoring the staff ,
Now for 16mil you can sit and hope and wait for Andy Pettite to return iof he does and if he dose'nt then the concerns grow deeper.
I rather see a few seasoned pitchers plus some rooks on this staff, what experienced successful pitcher would be there to give advice or be that person to look up too.
Michael and Jim A.,
It's ruse. Have no fear.
In his 21:39 post to me (above) there were two tells in the three words.
JIMBO
Wang is a proven commodity.38 wins in the last 2 seasons .Package him w/ Tabata and a decent pitching prospect ,either way if the Yanks can swing it Santana is an upgrade over Wang w/ the trio of Joba,Kennedy,Hughes + Pettitte and/or Haren in a trade .
Red Sox will never trade Bucholz or Ellsbury.If they add Bucholz and Lester to the backend of the existing rotation of Beckett Schilling and Dice-K they know they'll remain solid+ Wakefield.
Jimbo I moved to NY state (for the pizza mind you).
Jon K -
There are so much cheaper OF options out there now Austin jackson is worth a start in OF and trade melky. Austin would be the steal of the deal and that is the only reason I would dead this deal.
I seen the Kid play.
Granderson could be placed in the same class , but his glides look like Hunter. One of those players that makes you mad when he catches your deep drive with ease
Trading Melky leaves US desparate for a young outfielder, instead of Minny. Not a good position to be in. But I guess we can just throw money at that problem and it will go away.
Any chance of doing a blockbuster deal and getting Justin Morneau at the same time?
Speaking of identities:
Someone else is using 'mine' (see above at 03:44). Not that I disavow his or her message, but I did not post it.
I don't mind, though. No attachment.
It's his/hers, and I'll pick up another.
JIM A-
Don't get excited about old "handles" coming back to this Blog. We got guys using 3\4 different names. There are only a select few that use 1 name, and have the fortitude to push ahead when they get "dog piled".
I thought the biggest piece of info that came out of Hank's "chest thumping" conference yesterday, was that he "may" attend the Winter Meetings. Last year, Cashman had 'free reign". His role continues to shrink. Last month, he was escorting Torre to Tampa, and next week he may get to "Caddie for Big Daddy".
We have plenty of OF's that we can play the Melk man is expendable
Kat,
My compliments on your Santana story. I had extra time on my hands and I read The Times', Daily News', and Post's stories as well as yours, which was a model of reporting.
I have to admit that since I start with my home town rag the Times (going over all its major sections), then hit the sports pages of the City tabs, by the time I get to Newsday I've read all the news that's fit to print and some that's not, so I go straight to the blog.
I'm sure I've missed some good journalism from you!
We have plenty of OF's that we can play the Melk man is expendable.
Austin Jackson - the Kid is NICCCCCCE .
I'm more than willing to give up Melky but I want to know how Austin Jackson's arm is.
Melky SAVED games by himself with his outfield assists. One of the best arms in the Majors.
Also, we probably sign Rowand if Melky goes. That's why he hasn't signed with the Dodgers yet.
I wouldn't be too sad to give up Wang either. He's not as young as you think (27 or 28?)
I'd give him up for Haren or Santana.
Chuckie,
Glad you're here, I wanted to apologize again for the mix-up, I think you didn't see my first "My bad" as it was in the middle of a post.
Lots of identity confusion going around ... :-)
According to at least two sources (one in Minny and one here in NY) the Yankees and Twins may be closer to a deal than is being reported. The deal would be Melky, CM Wang, Jose Tabata and A-Ball prospect 2b Damon Sublett who was amazing this past season. There might be an addition or subtraction here or there, but the important thing is that the three major cogs are essentially set with Wang, Melky and Tabata.
Trust me .
Melky was a dime in a dozen in the ML , he was more ML ready at the time of his call up and even then his mates were the likes of kevin Thompson , the class now of Jackson and co is not only good but highlight film ready and if a players have 73 steals in only two years of Minor league service that tells you the energy he has once he is on base.
Melky has a good arm , but the OF the team has now down in the farm or better instinctive players.
Last night Chuckie asked:
"Don't you think he, Kennedy, Horne and Melky is too much?"
I do. Let them have one of the pair (Hughes/Kennedy), not two.
CHip -
I guess the people who stated Minny don't want Wang can now shut up.
You can praise or doom BC for that.
I tell you this is Hughes f**ks up half the folks on this board would need to beat themselves in the head with their mouse.
and if he does well then PC GM titles would be given out
I like Melky, I think he's a lot better than people give him credit for. Probably the best defensive CF the Yankees have had in nearly 20 years. But I'm not letting him hold up a trade for Santana.
I also like Wang, but if my choices are Wang or Kennedy or Hughes, I'm going to give up Wang. We've seen teams go to school more on him and as they have his sinker has become less effective. Plus he has shown some fragility (the shoulder problems, bad finger last year...)
For the person who asked about Chris Garcia - he was rated by Baseball America last year as the Yankees' #6 prospect (behind Hughes, Tabata, Bentaces, Joba, and Kennedy) - he missed all of this year with shoulder surgery - here is the scouting report on him from last season:
Background: A high school catcher, Garcia shifted to the mound as a senior and emerged as a top pitching prospect. After missing a month in 2005 with an elbow strain, he was sidelined for much of 2006 by an oblique strain, but he looked strong when he returned.
Strengths: Yankees officials believe Garcia has almost as much upside as Hughes. While Hughes' curve has passed his as the organization's best, Garcia's is still a plus pitch, particularly when he throws it with purpose and power. His fastball is consistently in the low 90s, and as he refines his mechanics and continues to gain experience, it could sit in the mid-90s. He's learning to work off his fastball more and rely on his curve less.
Weaknesses: Garcia has pitched just 197 innings in three years as a pro, though the Rule 5 draft changes mean the Yankees won't have to push him in 2007. His main challenges will be to stay healthy and show he can maintain his plus stuff consistently over an entire season. He also needs to improve his changeup.
The Future: Garcia made up for lost time by working with Charleston pitching coach Scott Aldred in Hawaii Winter Baseball. He'll start 2007 in high Class A and should be ready for New York in 2009.
Thanks Chip your sources are usually good!
Giving up Sublett makes sense if they're going to protect Cano -- that would mean no place opening up anytime soon for a young 2B.
Melky fun to watch but not hard to replace.
Tabata I was looking forward to seeing but hey, potential is only potential.
Wang I think we underrate. A consistent 19 wins per season is a big piece. If they're giving him up strictly to protect Hughes/Kennedy then I think we've learned something about the ceiling they see for both those two.
Or it could be that the Twinkies asked for Wang.
Diane - if the deal really is Wang then I think it tells us more about what the Yankees think of Wang than anything else. It reminds me of when the Yankees gave up Soriano for Alex. It wasn't that they wanted to part with Sori but there was a legitimate question about how much the guy was worth considering he had enormous talent but some glaring holes that were not getting better with time.
The same could be said for Wang. The closer we get to his arbitration and free agent years the more we see some questions that have yet to be answered. Also keep in mind that he's 27 and has had a few shoulder problems both in the minors and majors. Teams are getting more walks against him as hitters lay off the sinker out of the zone, his strike outs (always low) are going even lower and his hits are increasing as teams start waiting on his pitches and taking them the other way. His 38 wins over 2 years will earn him a lot of money, but many of those wins (as was pointed out when he was up for the Cy Young debate) are the result of great run support. He pitches to an ERA at or around 4 - which isn't bad - but has risen from his first two seasons. It could be, that despite being a proven commodity, the Yankees are torn about Wang's actual worth and are therefor willing to sacrifice him for a pitcher who is about the same age, and easily much better.
Wang also single handedly lost us the Indians series by going 0-2 with a 12 ERA.
He did not look like a pitcher that can handle that big of a stage.
I'll take the "bird in the hand". Keep Wang, Let Hughes go. Melky is certainly a "good" player, but that's all he is ever going to be. He is very comparable to Coco Crisp. For Melky's value to climb, his hitting is going to have to improve appreciably from the right side. That aint happening. I'm getting the feeling this trade may come down to whether the Yanks are willing to part with Cano. Something along the lines of Cano\Melky\lesser prospect pitcher (maybe Karstens etc). I would make this trade. The Yanks currently have plenty of offense.
Okay, the idea of keeping "the big 3" and trading Wang is starting to grow on me, but I still have this nagging fear that only one of these kids will turn out to be what we hope they will be, and even so, expectations are so high, one of them might be a reach.
Wang was at least consistent and could go deep into games.
Man, this is a lot of drama!
Ruse,
Glad it's you and welcome back! I hope you are enjoying NY.
Roy,
I hear you, I hate when people change their ID so they can blast people.
I would not include Cano in any deal. He has star to super star potential written all over him.
A-ROY
I assure you my friend it is the one and only .
Roy, there's no chance the Yankees would include Cano in a deal for Santana - just none whatsoever. You don't give up the 2nd best 2nd baseman in baseball for a player you then have to sign to a 6 year deal.
As it is I think the Yankees SHOULD be able to get Santana without giving up any major leaguer other than Melky
If Wang is in the pie for Santana with Melky and Tabata. This is a good deal for the Yanks. I liked Wang but a 95 MPH sinker thats not sinking as was the case at years end for whatever reason was quite hittable. Nice kid but the finisher instinct was not evident. Say what you want about Schilling (the mouth) he can finish a hitter off in tough spots and kill rallies. Wang is a cheap price.
Plus it may leave a chip or two for Haren or whomever. Lets get it