On the Yankees beat

Kat, Haren is no Santana period. He's not on level of Johan.

Papelbon likes idea of Santana trade
Link By Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff November 30, 07 10:33 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/
[quote]

Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon likes the idea of trading with the Twins and having Johan Santana on his team next season.
[b]
“I like it,” said Papelbon on sports radio WEEI’s Dennis and Callahan show this morning when he was asked about his thoughts on a possible trade that could send center fielder Coco Crisp, lefthander Jon Lester, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie, and righthanded pitching prospect Justin Masterson to the Twins for Santana, Minnesota’s prized lefthanded ace.

“Here’s how you gotta look at it, it’s simple, you put together a team to try to win a championship every offseason right?” Papelbon said. “OK, if you can do that, and obtain a guy that could help you do that, which you know he can help do that, you do it. Yes, you do have a lot of faith in these young kids, but whoever may be in the equation as a young kid, you don’t know what they’re gonna do at a big-league level. You don’t know if they’re capable of being on a championship club. You know that with Santana.”

While Papelbon seems OK with sending teammates Jon Lester and Coco Crisp packing for Minnesota, he’s hesitant to part with rising star Jacoby Ellsbury.

“No, you keep him,” Papelbon said.
[/b]
The All-Star closer also said he’d like to get a long-term contract done before the start of spring training.

“Of course I’d like to get a long-term deal done, there’s no doubt about that,” Papelbon said. “It’s the logistics of getting that done is what’s hard. I’m definitely not afraid to take my resume to a court of arbitration, that’s for sure, if I do go to arbitration. That’s just something that probably the closer we get to spring training we’ll start harping on a little bit more.” Papelbon, who is currently under Red Sox control (as he has two years of major league service time under his belt), would be eligible for arbitration after the 2008 season.

“I don’t think that if, for me, the way I think so far, as of right now, if I don’t sign anything right now, then I’ll probably more than likely go to arbitration or something like that,” said Papelbon.

Last March, Papelbon signed a contract that paid him $425,500 in 2007, just $45,500 more than the major league minimum and a fraction of what most of his fellow pitchers in the bullpen made last season.

Listen to the full WEEI interview with Papelbon here.

http://media.weei.podzinger.com/archive/DennisAndCallahan/2007-11-30_Jonathan_Papalbon.mp3[/quote]

Papelbon joins ranks of Redsox nation and their Fans are f*cking idiots. Coco Crisp? Are you kidding me? Buccholtz and Ellsbury have to be involved in package for Johan not stinking Crisp.

Definitly Santana, especially if the player package would have to be the same high ceiling types Minn is asking for. No question. Santana all the way. Too bad it has to be now or never and it might mean loosing a good young pitcher plus the only standout-prospect position palyers we have right now. I'm hoping we have him gift wrapped under the tree for christmas. It would be a bonus if we managed to keep Hughes.

The price for winning the World Series: your players are worth tons of money. It's hard to keep them all. Papelbon would make a huge fortune on the open market. He'd be a fool not to become an FA when that choice becomes available. I'm not seeing how the Red Sox are affording Santana.

As of right now...the Sox are the leading candidates to get Santana without offering Ellsbury or Bucholz...and as of right now, the Yanks have not offered a package that trumps what the Sox are offering, in the Twins eyes. Otherwise...in the words of Roy, "Santana would already be a Yankee". So if the Yanks want Santana, they have to come up with more than they have, to this point, offered. Time to use that "right of last refusal" eh Roy?

Yea winning the World Series is priceless.

Casual:

Want to buy a bridge?

All else being equal.....who do you think Santana would rather pitch for? Boston or NY? As things stand today....who would he have a better chance of getting a ring or two with?

Casual Observer -- please. Just because Sox won this year is no guarantee of continued success. If you get Santana your payroll will suffer. Read the Papelbon comments to get a hint of what's to come for the Red Sox. Win a WS and the price for your players shoots up drastically. It's one of the main reasons WS winners don't continue winning. Your payroll can't afford to keep all the best players. It catches up with you soon enough.

ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION: THE YANKEES WHO CAN AFFORD HIS SALARY DEMANDS WHILE GIVING THE TEAM A CHANCE TO COMPETE EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Look, dont take it personal folks...but New England happens to be the hot commodity right now....the Sox, the Pats, the Celts...yes even the Celts!...even the Bruins are playing well.... professional athletes WANT to come to Boston. Every one wants to win, the Sox have as much to offer any player as any team there is, PLUS great odds of winning a ring, right now.

LOL....uh...I think the Sox are "ok" finanacially.

I'm sure Santana would love to come to Boston -- because the Celts are winning. I'm sure Santana would take a salary cut -- because the Pats have a fantastic record. Yeah Boston is the place where topnotch baseball players will run to because they just love knowing that their hockey team is playing well -- at the moment.

I still got that bridge for you Buddy.

Casual Observer

How happy do you think Beckett will be if the Sox give Santana a mega contract?

The Sox are or were financially OK in 2007. You're missing the real message. You should go back and read the posts regarding the Sox investment, their profits, and how much new contracts will cost for their players that just won the WS. Read Papelbon's comment and get an inkling of what's to come. Count up your numbers and add Santana's salary. You're looking at a payroll of well over $200M.

Santana knows what the Yankees can afford and he knows what the Sox will be able to afford to keep the team competitive. The Yankees have that edge.

Santana would veto a trade to the Bosox. Period. He has always wanted to play for the Yankees, so either its the Yankees, or he won't be traded. Bosox will go after Haren, who has always been tough on our guys.
Cas Ob - for a female you should be more intuitive. You and every non-bathed Bosox fan knows the Yankees package is superior to the Bosox package, hands down. Especially if they include Betemit, who they won't need after signing Loretta.

Get a clue, lady!

Let's not forget luxury tax and revenue sharing.

Let's not forget the Yankees will have a new stadium and will say goodbye to luxury tax and revenue sharing.

Boston is about to experience paying the luxury tax and revenue sharing if they intend to pay Santana AND keep their World Series heroes happy in Boston.

The Mets just made a terrible trade! Lastings Milledge to the Nats for Brian Schneider and Ryan Church, two non-hitting players. Way to go Omar!

I posted this on the previous thread sorry for the repeat but I'm just mystified by this trade.

Besides, every BASEBALL person knows lefties do not like pitching in Fenway.
No brainer.

Uh oh....a Luxury tax and Revenue Sharing comment that is not exactly correct.....cue Nudge.

I think Santana would love to come to Boston because they are one of the few teams that can pay him that outrageous salary. He is also best buds with Ortiz....Boston is a fine town to live in with a young family, and the fact that there is a burgeoning Hispanic/Dominican community is not a deterrent either. The fact that he would likely be part of the best rotation in baseball were he to come to Boston cant be a negative in his mind....or the fact that he would have a pretty good shot at winning a WS or two over the next 2-3 years. I'm guessing that Johan would have absolutely NO issues with Boston.

I have no idea if he is a football fan or a basketball fan...or even a hockey fan, but I do know that many football players drool at the chance to play for the Pats, and now with the advent of the new "big three" basketball players will crave Boston....it's the way it works.

To answer the other posters question....my guess is if Santana comes to Boston, the Sox will have to work out a new contract with Beckett. If the Sox make the commitment to spend that sort of money on Santana, I'd expect the Sox payroll to approach $200mm in the next year or two. I dont think they NEED to do that....I think there are other answers that would be as effective, but the business of baseball is as competitive as the game itself.

Haren is no Santana, although he still has his attractions especially for those advocating that NYY should be aiming more at depth than at one true Ace.

I have mentioned him as an option that might allow NYY to keep the brat pack while strengthening the rotation. However, it Kat is right and he would cost as much in players as Santana, I'd cross his name off the 'possibles' list.

WFAN is reporting now that the Red Sox are going after Haren, not Santana.
This is all a bunch of crap because these rumors will float all over for the next 5 days and they will change by the hour. I'd bet that the team that doesn't get Santana, will get Haren so it will almost be a wash.

Of course the Sox don't NEED to pay salaries in excess of $200mm. Their players just want to live in Boston because it's Boston period. The Sox can get away with paying Papelbon 400 thousand dollars forever -- because Boston has a great football team. Of course all the WS champs will want to stay in Boston for sentimental reasons and won't expect salary hikes. After all, they have friends there. I'm sure Santana will settle for less with Boston because he has a friend in Ortiz. What better reason to want to play for a team and take less money. Yea Casual you have it all figured out. Now let's talk about that bridge.

So much for "the little engine that could" as the Sox owner likes to think of his team.

Jim A.,

It will be a wash in terms of cost of talent...but not in terms of money. Haren would fit nicely in Boston, but he is no Santana. He would also be a great addition to the Yanks...but he is no Santana. I guess it boils down to who needs him the most, and who can not lose any edge by "settling" for Haren.

did I ever mention settling for less money in Boston???....jeez...read the posts. In fact both Schilling and Lowell DID settle for less, but it's because they WERE already there and didnt want to leave. Santana wont give Boston any sort of discount, nor should he, but he would have no issues with coming to Boston if the money is equal.

Jim A,
It is great to have you and HYD in here at the same time. You guys always have good info and are open to RATIONAL ideas. Thanks for confirming what I said earlier,"Redsux want Haren"! They know how well he pitches against us. Haren owns our righty batters. He is a tough pitcher and I would be fine with him joining our team, but he is a Redsux type of guy - in need of a shower/shave. We get Santana, or nothing, and they get Haren.
Let the season begin!
Down with RSNation!
Go Yankees!!!

Casual- I'd think it would be better if Haren went to Boston because Fenway is tough on lefties and Santana to NY as Yankee Stadium is tough on righties BUT I wonder if the Red Sox would prefer Santana because Haren is somewhat similar to Beckett (hard throwing RH)?

Who offered Schilling and Lowell more?

I think the Sox would rather have Haren too Jim...but I think Theo is trying to cost the Yanks Cano to get Santana.

Anon....for crying out loud...read the sports pages...there were several teams who offered both Schilling and Lowell more years and more money.

I would be upset if we traded a prospect for haren and he failed than with Johan

Casual,
Maybe so, but I do not think the Yanks will trade Cano. At least I hope not.

Really Casual? Which teams? I do read the sports pages and there was talk about how much they might be worth but it appeared no one made a formal offer to either one. Tell me which teams made formal offers in terms of offering CONTRACTS with definite terms of more money and more years to both Schilling and Lowell. Don't come back with talk of potential. Tell me who offered them actual contracts that they both turned down.

Anon,

I know, you miss the CO of old who would have given the info on which he bases his pronouncements.

While the addition of either Santana or Haren bolsters the Sox immediately, it is more what they will shoulder once Schilling and Wakefield are gone. If the Sox can get either of them and not give up Bucholz or Ellsbury then it is a real coup. Not to say that I want to see the likes of Lester/Lowrie/Masterson gone...because I think all three of those players have a long MLB life in front of them.

Oh Casual...in addition to which teams made these formal offers, also tell me how much and how many years they were offered as well.

Jim A.,

I dont think they will either....it may become a stalemate.

I'm not having a ridiculous argument with you...the Phillies, for one, offered Lowell 4 yrs and 50mm...Schilling said on his blog there were three teams who offered him contracts(besides the Sox)...two of which had an option for a second year, all of them were over 14mm/per....it's right there is black and white people.

see this is why the yankees will not buldge becasue the sox will offer a bounty for Santana and buy them keeping their top prospects aside this would fuel the yankees to come after ahren with a cheaper proposal . In the end the yankees do fall underdogs due to the question mark rotation.

lester is expendable meaning if santana is added the pen will get one of the current starters.

Hughes or his spot is needed meaning to trade away him means the replacement has to be on point.

To get Haren The Yankees cannot afford to part with ANY of the big three he is not worth that price.

KAT-
If possible, could you ask a scout the question of "Santana or Haren"?
Even if one considers Santana vs. Haren a "toss up", the fact Santana is a lefty tilts the scales in his favor. Santana having playoff experience also weighs in his favor.

Jim A.,

I wonder if the Mets have become somewhat "dis infatuated" with Millidge...due to his lack of maturity. It does seem to be a pretty bad trade.

Jim: I'd like to respond to your post, so I've copied it below:

HYD,
You've probably moved on to the next thread by now but going back to your comment about being a different kind of Yankee fan and wanting a lower payroll, I ask why? Do you think the Yanks will lower their ticket prices, merchandise prices or any other associated costs? No way! We the fans are paying for this team and we never get any money back when they fail and expectations will never be lowered from a fan perspective so I'm fine with paying players, especially if they don't cost anything but money.

My Response:

Why do I want a lower payroll? Why do people cheer for underdogs? Isn't their more satisfaction in managing a cost-effective and efficient machine? I'm an accountant, I see the business side of things and I think the Yankees need to invest in talent MUCH smarter than they have at times in the past. Currently, they're playing two games at once to develop the finances and I'm ok with that. I am not ok with ARod's contract because the Yanks ended up bidding against themselves (circa Texas) and overpaid by at least $25 million. Is ARod a great player? Yes, but I'm not obsessed with winning every year. It kind of ruins the fun. When you were a kid, did you play sports? I never played baseball, but I was a pretty damned good soccer and lacrosse player and the reason I played in a division older than me for travel sports was because it got to be too easy otherwise and I grew bored. If the Yanks were to go through a season 162 - 0, I tell you, I wouldn't be happy. To me, I'd love to see an extensive floor/ceiling for salaries. Not a flat rate like $50 million/$150 million, but something much more complex that would incorporate team revenue, ticket prices, etc. Similarly, I'd like revenue sharing to take a turn in that direction as well. Base the revenue shared based on the revenue drawn from a given team playing against you in your home park. Share part of that revenue to help adjust for cost of living adjustments due to market.

With regard to a luxury tax, I'd love to see this go towards some great initiatives. MLB is a partner with the RBI program for inner city youth baseball...let part of luxury tax money go there. Develop other programs that help make baseball not just a sport for the rich (this coming from a guy who gets to sit in his company's corporate box on a regular basis). I LOVE minor league baseball because of it's passion, the excitement of the fans/players, and the chance to find that diamond in the rough or fusee the future HOF before he was even a rookie.

With regard to contracts, I think the player's union has too much power and that their should be a great shift. All player's should have escalator clauses in their contracts as well as reduction clauses. Exceed expectations, get paid more, underperform, get paid less. This should be tied to ticket prices and the like. If the team overall underperforms and such the players have to take a pay cut, then ticket prices are reduced through a systematic formula. Mind you, if this whole process was created, I'd have just come up with some new work for my firm to bid on the auditing of, but that's neither here nor there (I say this because we currently audit the NFL's revenue sharing).

Here's the problem with reducing ticket prices:

For the big ticket (premium) games, the Yankees sell out. Above and beyond that, tickets sell on Ebay, StubHub, etc for above face value. Simple supply and demand. Why should the fans, not the owners, get this additional money? Why should ticket prices be reduced?

Now, look at the other side, the "bad games" that people don't want to see as much. These tickets are offered to fans in a great variety of ticket packages including the Fuji $5 deal. Most people can afford to go to ball games for $5. The Yanks also donate tickets to organizations to help people that can't afford to go. Again, supply and demand takes in affect and despite $5 tickets, not all of these games sell out either.

Basically, I'm not too concerned about the ticket prices for the Yanks or any other sport team. I gladly shelled out my $100 to see Glavine win number 300 (I happened to be in Chicago that week) for a $30 face value ticket and I gladly paid $85 for Ranger tickets at the Garden in a few weeks. I have my partial ticket plan for 2008 and will probably overpay for tickets to the 2008 All-Star Game. That's ok by me though because it's my choice.

Schillng said on his blog there were three teams...okay, that's credible...NOT.

And as for Lowell and the Phillies, this is an article from Phillyburbs.com:

Phillies not in hunt for Lowell

By RANDY MILLER
phillyBurbs.com

If you heard the surprising local baseball news yesterday and were thinking Phillies minority owner John H. Middletown probably opted to throw a small percentage of the $2.9 billion he just earned into his team's 2008 payroll ... well, think again.

Contrary to reports, the Phillies apparently won't be bumping up their expected $95 million budget to make a run at signing World Series MVP Mike Lowell, a free agent third baseman.

ESPN's Buster Olney reported yesterday that the Phillies “are making a big play” for Lowell , a four-time All-Star who had a career season in 2007 with the Boston Red Sox.

“That's news to me,” a Phillies source said. “We like him and we've talked about him, but I don't know anything about making a play for him.”

That's because it's believed general manager Pat Gillick can't afford Lowell without more expendable cash.

There's more but it doesn't matter. I made my point. Red Sox are damn delusional.

looks to me like yankees would be happy to see elsbury and bucholz go for santana and the sawks would like to see hughes or cano go for him.

i think the sawks blink on this and the ca$hman holds firm and then goes out and gets haren and scott kazmir to show cajones comes in twos

The Met trade that now looks bad is the Estrada deal.

heh....like I said I'm not going to get into a childish and pointless argument with you ....if you care to further purvey the sports pages, ESPN, and both the Herald and Globe, you will see articles that state what I have posted. I as well, will not argue over credibility, only will point out that Schilling, the Globe, the Herald, and ESPN has at least as much credibility as you do.

And this is from the Phillies MLB site (LOL, wiping away my tears on this one, Casual):

Notes: Lowell not in the picture
General manager Gillick refutes report posted on ESPN.com
By Ken Mandel / MLB.com

"Our concentration is pitching," said general manager Pat Gillick. "We're not focusing on any position players at the moment." (Philadelphia Phillies)

PHILADELPHIA -- Pat Gillick didn't mince words when the question was asked.

An ESPN.com report suggested that the Phillies are preparing a hard pursuit of free agent third baseman Mike Lowell, and Philadelphia's general manager offered a quick denial.

"You can't believe everything you see on ESPN.com," Gillick said. "Our concentration is pitching. We're not focusing on any position players at the moment."

DELUSIONAL RED SOX. IT NEVER ENDS.

The Sox will trim old salary in the next few years. As valuable as Manny was to the last Series run, he'll be the first big salary to go at the first opportunity because he is clearly on the decline. That's their MO. That's why they let Damon walk. Eventually they are going to need a shortstop. And Veritek is getting older by the minute. There are chinks in the armor. Their plan seems to be to stack the rotation and pen and let good contact hitters and solid defense keep them in the game until they win it. Sounds like the Yankees of the late 90's. The Yanks would be wise to return to that model.

Roy,
I agree with your scout question, just ask them to leave economics out of the question. I tend to agree with you that Santana gets the edge because he is LH.

Casual,
I'm sure the Mets have lost faith in Milledge, but I still think they could have done better than two mediocre NON pitchers for him. The trade tickles me.

C.O.
I said long ago the R\Sox made a huge mistake in bringing back Schill. Having both Schill and Wakefield in the rotation is horrible. The sources sighted for the other Schilling offers, may all be from the same source. That source being Schilling himself.

Why is it a childish pointless argument? Red Sox claim their players stay out of love and dedication -- not money. They claim their players are offered millions of dollars more and more years elsewhere but they turn it down -- because Boston has great football and basketball teams. If you know of any other Red Sox fans who are interested in buying bridges, I got the London Bridge going up for sale tomorrow. Just let me know.

Steve O- I'd still take Manny in a minute, a slightly diminished Manny, is 80% better than most hitters at their peak. The guy can hit at will!
If he had a less than stellar season for himself, he may have just been bored because he certainly showed up in the playoffs.

Steve O.

My biggest concern regarding the Sox is the catching position. I dont think they have anyone who can step in to take Teks place. It is a real concern.I'm not ready to declare Manny's decline as of yet....but I do see him playing around 120 games a year. Remember, the Sox still have two more options years in 09/10...they very well may exercise them. Manny being Manny is worth that bat.

Hey Yankee land...
I'm back, much to the chagrin of some of you.

If the Red Sox get Santana and don't give up either Buchholz or Ellsbury, there should be a Congressional investigation.

I may be crazy, but I still think the Dodgers makes the most sense in terms of having major league talent to move, a pitchers park to throw in, easier line ups to pitch to, big market to prosper in and easy division to win.

Maybe the Dodgers are waiting in the weeds, but he could win the NL Cy Young Award for the next 7 years in LA.

I don't see how the Red Sox could get him without giving up Buccholz nor the Yankees not get him without giving up Joba or Hughes.

Haren is a nice pitcher, but not one you give up a huge piece of the puzzle for.

Letting Hanley Ramirez go made sense because we thought we were getting an ace in return... and after a rocky first year it turned out to be right. (Lowell was an amazing bonus. We ALL thought he was junk when the trade happened.)

Letting Buchholz or Ellsbury go makes sense if they know they are getting a difference making pitcher. Same with Cano or Hughes.

Haren is NOT a difference making pitcher. He's a nice talented pitcher and one that would make a good #3 guy on a solid staff.

There are so few aces in the game (Beckett, Sabathia, Halladay, Santana, Webb, Peavy and maybe Zambrano) that their price tag is justifiably huge.

Oh well, I've been away a week and I am already repeating myself

Roy,

I'll take that sort of "horrible"...Wakefield is an innings eater and Schill was "fairly good" in the post. The end results were quite satisfactory.

JIM A.-
Please, no Manny. We already have to "pamper" A-OPT. Baby sitting Manny also, is too much to ask of Girardi.

Red Sox are trying to paint a picture of the little engine that could...that their players stay out of love and dedication not more money...that they are a financial underdog...they would never buy a WS win...they prefer to build from within...they would never run their team the way the Yankees do...they are the opposites of the Yankees...

The problem is that no one is buying it except for their DELUSIONAL FANS.

Roy,

I'm sure you would much rather have Moose and Rahga...who cost as much as the Marlins entire payroll.
Gee...let's compare stats.....

Red Sox are so delusional that they actually thought they won the World Series!

How sad we are

LMAO...keep beating that dead horse even deader. Like it or not...Boston aint playing second fiddle to anyone.

The whole "Little Engine That Could" mentality for the Red Sox is bulls---.

I just also don't understand the people who try to insult us by saying "You are just like the Yankees."

How is that an insult? We've been wanting to be like the Yankees for generations!

If someone came up to me and said "You are JUST LIKE GEORGE CLOONEY!" should I be insulted?

Someone pulled that recently smugly asking "You are like the Yankees now. How does it feel?"

I responded "GREAT! Thanks for asking!"

Then I skipped all the way home.

Yes... you read that right. I f---ing skipped all the way home.
I had NO IDEA how happy you guys were all of those years!

oh come on sully...you are FAR better looking than Clooney. Never settle, my friend.

Roy, if you guys don't want Manny... I'll be happy to be saddled with 7 more years of awesome stats, tons of post season highlights, clutch playoff and World Series hits and some of the silliest and most insane clips you will ever see.

Again... woe is me!

Roy,
Call Manny what you will but if he were the Yankees DH, he'd be a monster! He will go down in history as one of the top 10 RH hitters of all time. He may be a space cadet but he can perform in the post season.
I hate defending a Sox player as much as any Yankee fan would but the guy is a great hitter.

oh jeez....I called another guy "good looking"....now watch mikey insist that I am a woman. I guess I asked for it.

C.O.
Bringing back Schill is the equivalent of the Yanks bringing back Mussina if they had that option. No way.

St Louis offered a pact and San Diego was intrested along with a few feelers . this was after Schillings Boo Hoo letter was made public and as soon as the Cardinal offer was made schilling was en route back to Boston.

Teams overpay so yes teams may have offered higher pacts , and the point is ????

What about when Boston offered Bernie more Money and he turned it down and came here ,

And lets not forget about Carp pavano

Dennis Miller has called me Arte Lange more than once at the show.

I went to Borders and bought "Noose Making For Dummies."

Roy,

You are stating that Moose and Schilling are equivalent????? what are you smoking son?....check out the post season stats on those two.

Delusional AND illiterate to boot. No one said you were sad and no one is talking about the World Series win. Sully -- I won't summarize what we're talking about but I will say you're not keeping up with the conversation. You are changing the subject to boast about your team -- something you do quite often since your WS win.

As far as the Sox being like the Yankees -- that's fine. It's OK. BUT don't PRETEND YOU'RE DIFFERENT. Don't pretend you are that little engine. Sox fans are in denial when it comes to the truth -- just like ESPN making announcements according to their wishes. It's called being DELUSIONAL.

Some of you guys sound like Joe Hardy, in that you'd sell your "soul" for a pennant. No way, no Manny.

Sully: Zambrano is not an ace...I mean, he was 40th in starter ERA...in fact, the Cubs overpaid for him drastically. Lilly had more K/9 and a lower WHIP & ERA. You can't call Zambrano an ace.

Oswalt & Lackey however are aces.

Tim Hudson is an ace once in a while. John Smoltz is still an ace.
There is also a nice group of young pitchers that might be: Fausto Carmona, Chris Young, Scott Kazmir, Eric Bedard, Cole Hamels, Matt Cain, etc.

BTW: Milledge to Nats for Church/Schneider...did Milledge's stock really fall that low?

I would take Haren over Santana. Fewer prospects to get him, fewer innings on the arm.

In other news, the Mets just traded Milledge to the Nationals for Ryan Church and Brian Schneider. Nats, in theory, have a pretty good outfield taking shape with Milledge in center flanked by Pena and Kearns.

As far as I can see, the ONLY one making the "little train that could" statement is you...no one from the Sox side. ...further, if you want to twist what John Henry said...go ahead..but then it would be out of context wouldnt it. His comments were the Sox once were considered by most of the rest of the baseball world, and most certainly the NY Yankees, to be "the little brother" or the "little train that could" when they won in 04...but now, after winning twice in the last 4 years, they can no longer be considered as such. Distinctive difference.

Yanks should stay patient ... anyone with a brain can see this Santana to Red Sox stuff is a smokescreen. Twins are trying to squeeze the Yanks for better prospects. If Yanks stick to their guns they can get this deal done with a package of kennedy, melky, gonzalez and another low level prospect (not jackson i hope) ...

what Yanks should really do is engage the Padres. Flip the script on the Twins ... start making an offer to Pads for Peavy (Pads need a CF and a 2B) ... offer Pads same package (melky, gonzalez, kennedy and another low level prospect) for Peavy and let's see who bites.

I'd be cool with either guy (even though Peavy is a RH) and if we got Peavy, he's alot cheaper.

Sully the Sea Monster - welcome back! Very rare to see Jim A, HYD, Cas Ob, Roy, and you in here at the same time. I'm gonna be LOL all day today. RedSux know Shilling is just about done, despite his ability to load up the ball without getting caught near the end of the season and appearing to have "re-invented" himself. Wakefield is done also, so they need to keep Buc-hole and Lester-oil. Unless they grab Haren, who would easily replace Shill the Sharpie or Wakefield.
By the way, Abreu and Santana share a common bond - Venezuela. Big Poopy is hispanic, from DR. So while they are cordial, Santana grew up idolizing El Come Dulce. Yanks have the edge, no doubt about it. If they have to give up Hughes - so be it.

Roy,
Your undies are getting in a twist over nothing. I didn't say I wanted Manny on the Yanks, I just said "I'd take him in a minute" which was a nod to his hitting abilities and nothing more. Relax Podjo...

I love Jim A
He's a logical and smart dude.

If he put up those stats as a Yankee and had as many post season highlights as he's had as a Red Sox... he'd be BELOVED in New York.

People get on A-Rod for being too polished, too calculating and flopping in October.

Well how about having the equivalent of Cuba Gooding Jr in Radio in left field?!

How about having him take a leak in monument park, or be listening to his I-Pod, or looking like Predator, or wearing pants that MC Hammer would find excessively baggy?

And then have him hit a go ahead 3 run homer off of Barry Zito in the clinching 2003 division series game... or winning the World Series MVP in 2004... or being one of the few guys to show up in the 2005 White Sox series homering twice in the final game... or hitting the walk off against the Angels in the playoffs... or driving in 10 runs in the 7 game Indians series... or going 3 for 4 in the World Series opener...

You wouldn't be able to PRINT Manny jerseys fast enough!

Observer,

Luccino made the "little engine" comment back in September.

BTW - for whomever suggested the Red Sox were going after Haren instead of Santana - that wasn't the report - it was that the Red Sox were going after Haren, that would not preclude them from getting Santana too. There's a thought for us Yankee fans:

Beckett
Santana
Haren
Dice
Schilling