On the Yankees beat

Hate 'im in Boston, love 'im in Thailand...

Do any Yankees actually stay in the U.S. during the off-season?

Maybe while he's in Thailand he can visit Burma ...

It's called "Myanmar now!"

hopefully it was a one way ticket. overpaid, unloyal, aging worthless centerfielder, the guy cant hit it out of the infield. if only he chased balls in centerfield like he was a-rod on a saturday night in the village. BRING BACK BROCIOUS AND BERNIE

Whatever, just come to camp in shape

Hey Randon, those are the attributes (i.e. overpaid, aging, worthless, etc.) that the Yankees actually seek out. LOL.

Hey Randon, those are the attributes (i.e. overpaid, aging, worthless, etc.) that the Yankees actually seek out. LOL.

Minnesota Twins should trade stars for Boston Red Sox's cheap youth

[quote]

http://www.twincities.com/sansevere/ci_7566304?nclick_check=1

If I'm the Twins' general manager, here's what I do. (And I'd do it under duress because I'd be working for a cheapskate owner.) I get on the horn with Boston Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein and say, "You want Johan Santana, right?"

Epstein likely will say, "Right."

Then I say, "Tell you what. I'll trade you Santana and Carlos Silva and Joe Nathan."

Then I wait for Epstein to pick the phone up off the floor, and I say, "I don't really want to part with Santana or Nathan, but my owner is a cheapskate and won't pay what it will take to sign them long term. So, you give me center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury, second baseman Dustin Pedroia, closer Jonathan Papelbon, starters Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz, and we've got a deal."

Presumably, Epstein will balk at giving up all that, so I'd tell him I need to get off the phone so I can call the Yankees. He'd come around because getting Santana and Nathan, particularly Santana, pretty much would ensure the Red Sox of several more trips to the World Series. And with that offense backing him up, Silva would help, too.

Meantime, the Twins significantly reduce their payroll, making owner Carl Pohlad giddy, and they get one of the game's best young center fielders (Ellsbury), the game's best young closer (Papelbon), a terrific young second baseman (Pedroia) and two promising young pitchers (Lester and Buchholz).

I have just one question: What's Twins general manager Bill Smith waiting for? He should have this deal done by now.[/quote]

About Johnny Damon in Siam ...

Thailand is an amazing country. Very family oriented. Once you are out of Bangkok (which was ruined morally by American soldiers during Vietnam) it is a world unto itself ... riding elephants in Chiang Mai ... diving at Ko Tao ... But like Mexico, South Africa, America, UK, South Korea morally it is changing rapidly ... If you are in Thailand you can visit The Killing Fields and Angkor Wat in Camobia, and Luang Prabang in Laos, which is like stepping back into the 1920's, glittering Buddhist temples, French cafes ... amazingly friendly people. (Hmong, our allies during the war. Very great patriots for America!)

Nice Damon went there. Remember him talking on the bench to Ty Clip during the Mets series? In his debut? Well, he has good intangibles as a teammate. Thailand also has good weather and great kick boxing teachers! They're tough! They will beat you up and go and eat a bowl of rice, they don't care! Siam was never colonized! Can't see them really playing baseball. Their names are so, so long how can they fit on the back of the jerseys?

Anyway, enough about that ...

I was thinking ...

If Andy Pettitte comes back, how many less wins would he give us than Johan, Bedard or let's say for arguement's sake, Kazmir?

Andy = 15

Johan = 20

Can those five wins be made up by keeping all those we'd trade?

If Andy is a very loyal Yankee he MUST COME BACK when the team needs him most. You don't pout and abandon ship. Mattingly should have stayed but I realize now he wants to be closer to his son. You get better or you get bitter. Choose one. There is no "I" in team.

So, is Johan really worth losing Horne, Cano, Melky, Hughes? Or Horne, Hughes, Melky, Jackson? Some combination of that?

Plus all the money. When things are so bad if you visit the Taj Majal they won't take US Dollars. So bad the Saudi foreign minister said merely talking about the coming collapse of the US Dollar may lead to its collapse? (Strange talk!) The Yanks are way, way over budget already! There are limits, no?

What is the going rate for Bedard? Vs. Johan as per cost in players?

What about guys like Ron Mahay or Mark Redmond, even for the bullpen? Mark Redmond isn't bad. We need lefties in Yankee Stadium. Where are they?

Why so many great righties in the minors (Carp, Brackman, this Chris Garcia kid, Horne, Joba, Hughes, Sanchez, Betances, Smith) but no lefties? Who is accountable for this imbalance? The scouts? Who? We can't draft a Jeremy Sowers from USC or Arizona State or Texas A&M or Baylor or Miami?

Other teams do. Where are all the left handers? Did someone issue a memo, "Draft only righties who cares about lefties?" There isn't another Graham Lloyd in all of Australia?

Now, if you can underline what is wrong with the post dynasty Yanks, you would have to cite several things ... just in my view ...

Cashman's terrible moves (Brown, Weaver, Giambi, Farns)
Weak bench (no Straw, Sierra, Boggs, Fielder, all with pop)
Lack of elite position players from minors (Hunter Pence?)
No more great moves (Wells, Cone, O'Neil, Tino, Nelson)
Esprit de corps (Spanish, Taiwanese, Japanese, English)
No Leadoff hitter (Knoblauch never was replaced)
Lack of elite lefties (Stanton, Andy in prime, Key, Wells)
Middle Relief (Stanton, Mendoza, Nelson; rubber armed troika)
Super Role Players (Chad Curtis, Chuck to LF, Shane Spencer)
Small Ball (Work the Count, hit behind runner, 2 out RISP)
Metalanguage (What does Yankee brand mean to US, world?)
Payroll (About 40 percent of the payroll last year was wasted)
Loyalty (It IS indeed an honor to play for the Yankees)
Hardnosed (Karstens w/ broken leg vs. Abreu afraid of the wall?)
Rotation of 5 Number 1 or 2 archetype starters vs. Pavano, Kei
Lefties in the pen then and now (Stanton, Lloyd vs Kei, Ron V)

All or most of these things have to be dealt with if you really want to win the World Series again.

Even with Santana the facts are ...

No matter how many runs we score, good pitchers shut us down

We can't play small ball

No plate discipline when it counts (Melky, Cano)

Can't get runners in from 3B with less than 2 outs

No energetic bench guys (Austin Kearns)

No leadoff hitter (We need David Eckstein)

Esprit de corps (Herb Brooks "I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the right players.)

Make it a six inning game ... Pervical/Armando Benitez to Gregg to Mo.

Hungry kids that love the game and live for the game and would play for free re: Eckstein and Brandon Phillips.

You throw a glove in CF, LF, 2B, 3B, SS, guys like Austin, Eck and Brandon P. are going to run out there and come back with a filthy uniform.

We need that.

So according to the NYPost the Twins are set on a package of the following: Hughes, Melky, Austin Jackson, Jose Tabata (at least). Now whether I believe that or not is not the issue. What is the issue is that there is no way, not a single chance, I do that deal.

Johan Santana is not going to win the Yankees a World Series - and what the Twins want for the right for the Yankees to sign him is nuts. I would pass and move onto a second tier pitcher who might be available (Haren)

Bring in Armando Benitez and Troy Percival and make it a six inning game....Ant, you crack me up!

Armando Benitez melts down faster than a Hershey bar in a frying pan!

I'd pass on that deal as well Chip, but I don't know if I'd go for Haren before I checked in on Kazmir and Bedard because I'd really like a lefty. At the end of the day I wonder if everyone will just break even as the Yanks, Bosox and Mets will all most likely come away with (in no particular order) Santana, Haren and Bedard.

I still think we'll hear tons of combinations before any deal gets done and it will likely be something we don't expect but it's fun speculating and searching for the latest rumors anyway.

The rumors of wildly extravagant deals will make whatever they finally do sound so sensible and down-to-earth!

Remember the '$350K just for openers'?

That whole interaction made the final deal for AR more palatable to many NYY fans.

Might we see a similar situation emerge here? An expensive front-of-the-rotation guy obtained, but at a less screamingly exorbitant rate than NYY fans now dread, et voila! Genius businessmen!

Meantime fan uproar about keeping the untouchables and the sentimental favorites strengthens the NYY FO bargaining hand: "We can't do that our fans are howling already!"

Jim.

The NY Daily News confirms something I said yesterday. When reports were circulating that Santana would like to pitch in NY and the Yankees are his top choice - he's not going to reject trades to the Angels or Red Sox if they're willing to pay him.

Have to say, if the Angels are serious players for him (and why wouldn't they be) then the Yankees need to move on a Plan B now. The Yankees can not compete in terms of prospects with what the Angels can offer. They match up so much better with the Twins than the Yankees do. A package of Chone Figgins, Brandon Wood, and Jared Weaver would easily get it done for the Angels and they have the depth (thanks to the Hunter signing and Garland trade) to absorb those losses easily.

The Yankees would drive a harder bargain regarding Santana if they knew Pettitte was part of the "08" rotation. The Twins will use this situation to try to get the "real" player they seek. That player being Cano. Sure, they would love to have Hughes in the deal, but the Twins have plenty of young pitchers. They want Cano, and figure to make the Yanks feel like they out "horse traded" the Twinks by keeping the Big 3. Cano\ either Melky or Jackson, but probably end up with Tabata\ and a pitcher the caliber of Karstens are what the Twins are angling towards.

Yanks will never trade Cano.Period.
Hughes and Melky makes some sense + 1 other prospect not named Jackson or Tabata.
The Yanks will not allow the Twins to fleece them.

JIMBO
I'd go after Haren before Bedard or Kasmir,both pitchers have had arm problems.Granted they're both fine pitchers.Haren is such a gamer and innings eater .Was also the best pitcher in the AL for much of the 07 season .

Ruse - I'm with you - Cano goes nowhere. I think if the Yankees do this deal the Twins have to agree to Kennedy, Melky, Gardner or a pitcher.

Like I said though, if the Angels are really in it to get him, then the Yankees can't match up, not even a little bit. And if they lose out on Santana I would not be all that upset if they turned to Oakland and offered them Kennedy, Gardner and salary relief by taking back either Chavez or Kotsay along with Dan Haren.

If Cash & Hank play this right, there will be one of two outcomes: Santana winds up in the NL, or he ends up with the Red Sox for Ellsbury and either Bucholz or Lester. Then the Sox are stuck signing him to a 7-year deal at about $20m/year, and Cash still has all his prospects to deal for Haren, Kazmir or Bedard, who are all around 2 years younger, have 3 years left on their contracts, and threw more or less the same IP/K/ERA last year. Maybe they're not Santana, but it won't take Hughes/Melky/Horne or Cano/Tabata to get them.

Point is: make Theo mortgage his future.

If all it takes is Kennedy/Melky and a second-tier prospect, fine. Otherwise, keep the young guns to go after something younger and cheaper, and let the Red Sox sell their souls.

RUSE-
As the saying goes, "never say never". The Yanks traded Soriano. Cano and Soriano are very similiar players at this stage of their careers. Pitchers the age and ability of Santana very, very seldom become available, hence the inclusion of minor league talent. Cano is the player the Twins covet, and no other team in the equation has a player like him to offer the Twins. This is why the Yanks have the "right of 1st refusal". And it's gonna come down to just that.

The Yanks can not afford to give up Melky, Jackson and Tabata.

They really can not afford to get rid of any of them right unless they plan on signing a center fielder. But if they part ways with Melky and then sign a center fielder they are still going to need to find a way to fill RF next year and LF the year after.

Jackson and Tabata both seem to be the real deal and they would fill our outfield holes perfectly if they turn out to be.

Yankees won't get either Kazmir or Bedard. GMs are not going to trade pitchers of that caliber to teams they have to face 19 times a year.

If the Yankees miss out on Santana (which would be fine) Plan B pitchers should include: Haren, Harden, Cain, or Sheets, and to be perfectly honest, if the price were right (1 mid level prospect) I would take a shot on Mark Prior.

P.S. Could have sworn I saw a story about Damon going to Thailand for the first time since he was two LAST off-season.

In all honestly the reason the Twins Owner is getting rid of Santana is so he does not have to dig into his own pocket to pay him.

The Stadium they are building is sucking all of their money away from spending on the actual team. By Signing Cano or Wang they will have to still spend big money keeping them since the time for them to sign a contract is almost up.

I do not think they want anything to do with Cano or Wang if they can get a package of young high end prospects and Melky who still has another year before he needs a contract.

The Twins are going to be asking for to much and I do not see the point in giving up Hughes, Tabata, Jackson and Melky.

Roy,

The big, huge, major difference between Cano and Soriano is that Soriano was making a ton of money through arbitration, was not a good second baseman, and the Yankees were getting the best player in baseball and he was locked up for at least 4 more years, Cano is making $500,000, and the player the Yankees would be getting back (Santana) needs to be signed to an extension.

No way the Cubs let Prior go for a mid level prospect. Too much "egg" to wipe off their face.

McCarthy - The Twins' new stadium is actually being paid for by tax dollars. It isn't costing Pohlad a thing. But you're right that they're going to lose Santana because he's cheap.

Roy,

They won't be able to get anything more for him than that. The guy hasn't pitched in 2 years. Shoot, they may do a straight up Prior for Igawa swap.

Chip -

I figured the stadium was costing the organization something because they apparently do not have enough to even attempt throw more at Santana within the organization.

Good point, Mac. I don't buy that they really want Cano. Roy, they're trading Santana 'cause he wouldn't take their $80m/4 yrs. I don't care for the Cano-Soriano comparison, but since you made it: how much did Soriano just get? Why would they want Cano?

Texas got stuck with the "big" arbitration money. The impact of acquiring a pitcher like Santana, is very comparable to getting a player like A-OPT.

Jim A.

Armando Benitez can be very good ... maybe Mo can help him. He throws like 97 MPH, or did. And has a pretty good slider. I think he is worth a flyer.

Ok you want a six inning game ...

Gregg to Joba to Mo

Or Gregg to Mo to Joba

Do that.

I don't think anyone would laugh at that.

Now as for Pervical, he was very dominant as you know before he got hurt. Sometimes it takes a few years to get back the arm strength.

I am just throwing out ideas.

I am sure you are very happy with ...

Farnsworth
Veras
Villone
Henn
Bruney
Igawa

Why not try some other names? Like Gregg, who is great. Or Percival or AB who might improve with Mo around and Eiland.

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.

Oh and about the Yanks biz with China, they turned back the Kitty Hawk and Patriot at the last minute, leaving hundredes of American wifes and kids at the airport in Hong Kong while the ship, in duress and need of a port, had to sail back to Japan.

Any Yank exect doing business with China should be put in Gitmo for treason.

DC-
Soriano got that money thru free agency. Cano aint even close to that time in his career. Next week, when the Twinks try to squeeze Cano out of the Yanks, you guys are gonna remember this exchange and wince.

Yes Roy, but the thing you're missing is that the Yankees were willing to part with Soriano because he was due to get that BIG ARBITRATION MONEY. You are now expecting that the Yankees would trade the best second baseman in the American League, who is making under a million dollars for a player that they would then have to sign to a 20 mil a year deal. It makes less sense than your usual ramblings.

1. There are no 2nd basemen available through FA who could replace Cano

2. There are no 2nd basemen in the system who could replace Cano.

3. The only 2nd basemen in baseball even comparable to Cano are Chase Utley and Brandon Phillips and neither will be traded.

4. With Giambi and Abreu both set to leave after next season, Cano is far too valuable to consider trading.

5. Alex plays everyday, Santana pitches once a week - Thus Alex contributes more to the ability of a team to win than Santana does.

Roy -

Soriano set records for how much he was awarded in arbitration both with the Rangers and Nationals.

Sorry Anonymous,

No way Theo would ever trade Ellsbury, Dustin, Pap, Lester and Bucholtz for Nathan, Santana and Silva. (Joe Nathan pitched at Stony Brook so mabye he might like to pitch for the Yanks?)

That is more insane than anything I've heard on this Blog since that guy who wanted to trade Will Nieves for Roy Oswalt.

I think Michael PTRS "Dead to Me" ran him off.

Poor guy.

He made one post and then vanished like REO Speedwagon.

But your great trade idea ranks a close second! It will happen when the Red Sox have Ted Williams Crygenically Fozen Bobble Head Doll Day.

Wait a minute ... that actually isn't a bad idea!

Heck it could happen. Even Kazmir was traded. Nolan Ryan. Amos Otis. Jim Fregosi. Tom Seaver. But I can't see that trade happening even with half the players involved.

Chip, now there is a guy who comes up with amazing trades. He must study all the players in great detail. What Bill Gates is to writing computer code Chip is to trades.

Oh Jim A.,

On your attacking my Six Inning Game guys ...

Remember Billy Koch of the A's and Blue Jays, from West Babylon, the star of Team USA and the 99 mph heat? He has some rare disease called Morgellons. It was documented on Rense.com. It is the strangest thing I have ever heard of. You will have to read it yourself to understand it.

Here is the link.

'Horrifying' Morgellons Ends Career Top Baseball Pitcher

Within two years -- at age 29 -- Billy Koch was out of baseball, partly because of the ...

http://www.rense.com/general72/horr.htm

If Billy could get over that, maybe he'd come back to MLB with the Yanks.

Then you could have ...

Koch to Joba to Mo to make it a six inning game!

Joe Stony Brook Nathan to Joba to Mo

Koch to Nathan to Mo

Percival to Koch to Mo

Benitez/Pervical to Koch to Mo

For now we have ...

Farns to Bruney to Mo

Igawa to Veras to Mo

Villone to Igawa to Mo

Farns to Villone to Mo

Farns to Bean to Mo

None of these combinations thrill me. I think Boy George said they would shore up the pen.

Hint ... Lefties!!!!!!!!!

Ron Mahay
Redmond
Jeremy Sowers!!!!!!!!! (Was hurt and Tribe may be down on him!)

Maybe Ohlendort, Sanchez, Betances and others are being groomed for middle relief?

CHIP-
So much for the preaching of "pitching and defense" wins. Be consistent. You also are the one who always says money means nothing to the Yanks, yet now you claim they traded Soriano over "big arbitration money". Be consistent. You also discussed moving Cano to 3rd if A-OPT left, and now claim there is nothing available either thru the farm system or free agency to fill a hole at 2B. Be consistent. Next week, the Twinks will bring up the name of Cano.

Twinkies have already brought up the name Cano and have been told caNO

Money is irrelevant to the Yankees, but with Soriano they were not thrilled about having to pay a player who showed no interest in improving his defense and (despite his obvious talents) had a lot of flaws the amount of money the market dictated they pay him. Plus THEY WERE GETTING BACK ALEX FRIGGIN RODRIGUEZ and Rodriguez was under a long term contract at the time. And the Rangers were kicking in money for him. So comparing the two instances is like comparing Apples and Elephants you nit wit.

I still say that pitching and defense win games - but as I have said time and time and time and time and time and time again I do not believe the BIG PITCHER is a must have. I prefer a deep rotation from head to toe rather than one stud. As I said a few days ago, in 2006 the Twins had the AL Cy Young winner (Santana) the AL Batting Champ (Mauer) the AL MVP (Morneau) one of the top closers in the game (Nathan) and couldn't get out of the first round, because Oakland's #2 - #4 pitchers were better than the Twins' guys behind Santana.

EVEN IF A PITCHER GOES 30-0 THAT IS STILL LESS THAN 20% OF THE TEAM'S GAMES.

CHIP-
Name calling again? Come on. We have been thru this before. I would take a 2 time Cy Young winner, in his prime, over any offensive player. Babe Ruth included.

Roy, I hope you're right. If the Twinkies are asking for Cano & Melky & one of the 3 arms, there's no way the Sox can beat that without giving up Ellsbury & Lester or Bucholz. Say the Sox get Santana for Ellsbury and Lester, and the Yanks get Haren for maybe Kennedy/Horne or Ohlendorf/Jackson or Tabata, wouldn't you take the trade-off?

Well then Roy I am once again thrilled to realize that you are not really Brian Cashman or Hank Steinbrenner in disguise.

Or would Melky have to be a part of any Haren trade?

By the way, the Babe probably would have won a Cy Young.

DC-
Sure, I'd take Haren. But he's not a lefty, and the possible loss of Pettitte makes this a huge factor. Also, does anyone know Ortiz and Manny's stats vs. Santana? This may also be factoring into the Yankee thinking rgarding Santana.

Now the asking price for Santana is even higher? The rumor posted earlier in this thread is ridiculous and plan B should be implemented.

I agree with Ruse regarding Haren , he is a fine pitcher that would come at a MUCH cheaper price.

Any of you who want to wipe out the farm to get Santana and replace some of the moved pieces with older FA's need to accept another 7 years of no ring.

Realist - exactly right. To give up Cano and Melky means bringing in more overpriced, mediocre vets to replace them (Marcus Giles and Aaron Rowand) and that in no way helps the long term future.

Chip,

I can't believe how some people can't see how this would have a huge adverse effect on the team? Making it older hasn't worked for quite sometime.

Robinson Cano's don't grow on trees and how many can HONESTLY say they knew who he was 3 years ago? Same for Melkey but not to the same extent. So if Jackson and Tabata live up to their hype you get younger AND better.

To paraphrase a famous quote , "He who does not learn from history is destined to relive it." or something to that effect ;-)

CHIP-
Instead of Giles, how about your favorite 2nd baseman. The free agent, Kaz Matsui?

ooops...repeat it not relive it ;-)

Ruse,
I don't remember Bedard having any arm trouble, but if that's true, maybe we do want to stay away. I just like lefties in Yankee Stadium a little better. I'm afraid that Haren would get psyched out by the short porch when facing a left hander and change his game the way Giambi changed his swing.

Ant,
The Yankees have had Armando Benitez in the past and Mo couldn't help him then, why should things be different several years and injuries to Benitez later?

I agree w/ Mahay, I think he would fill the LH specialist spot and I had heard a rumor a couple of weeks ago that the Yanks were close to signing him but nothing has happened.

Wow at the begining of last season No one was saying there is no one to replace cano, as he sucked in the 1st half. I would take a consistant player any day over a 2nd half only performer

Ok, Im not much of a blogger but after reading some of them on here, I felt I should give my take:

1) Since Pettite is back with the Yanks, the leverage is in thier favor. Melky/Hughes is now officially spending too much...Melky/Kenedy is ideal since the yanks are giving the Twins a proven Defensive Center Fielder and at Least a future #3 starter. Boston will on give up one half of THAT offer....And the mets have nothing to offer, trading Jose Reyes is just going to leave a huge hole at a premium position.

2) Does anyone recall that Benitez was a Yankee already...it was about 3 weeks worth of service before they shipped him to Seatle. He will neevr rejoin them since he only wants to be a closer.

3) Id go after Dan Haren but no chance Id take bedard. Haren has a career that shows improvement with each season while Bedard has had many ups and downs so far (and probably benefited from one year of coaching from the greatest pitching coach ever!)