On the Yankees beat

Kat is correct. Twins' GM Billy Smith is going to hold court in Nashville at the Winter Meetings - meet with the Angels, Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Red Sox (and possibly Rangers) and see what he can get. Of those teams - the Angels can offer the best package and do it without hurting themselves because of how much depth that organization has.

In fact, I could see the Angels, if they want to be hyper aggressive, coming out of next week with Cabrera and Santana, giving them the following:

2B - Macier Izturis
LF - Gary Matthews
RF - Vlad
3B - Cabrera
CF - Hunter
DH - Anderson
1B - Kotchman
C - Napoli
SS - Aybar

SP - Santana, Lackey, Escobar, Garland, Saunders

Be patient Hank ... BE PATIENT!!!! The Twinkies are quickly getting themselves over a barrel ... Santana DOES NOT want to play for them (evidenced by him shooting down a 5 yr. $100 mill extension) and nobody but the Yanks are being aggressive here. DON'T BID AGAINST YOURSELF HANKIE!!!! Unless (like Chip suggested) Angels are lying in the weeds ... if they got Santana AND Cabrera then look out!!! That team would be ridiculous! Anyway, that still seems like a stretch cause Yanks are offering the best prospects. If Twins are truly interested in Kennedy then I would personally go pick up Kennedy, Melky and Gardner and drive all 3 to the airport and wish them luck.

Since Jackson is about a year away the Yanks could certainly make do w/ Damon in CF next year and Hideki in LF. I'd rather be slightly less than "all we can be" next year as opposed to going after Jones or Rowand and tying those guys up to long term deals. We have Jackson and Tabata in the pipeline for 2009/2010 so only a 1 year stopgap is needed (Cameron would be perfect!!! Steroids, smeroids)

More importantly, how's this for a 2008 rotation: Santana, Wang, Pettite, Hughes, Chamberlin .... OHMIGOD!!!!! That's sick!

The thing that people dont seem to realize when it comes to Santana is that his best years are already behind him. He is extremely unlikely to duplicate his Cy Young years as he is about to enter the last year of his 20's and into his 30's. He's past his prime and Minnesota is demanding talent in return as if he was STILL in his prime.

Santana is not the answer for the talent we would have to give up.

Attempting to trade for Dan Haren or Eric Bedard is the way to go. We would most likely have to give up near the same talent to get either of them, but both pitchers have yet to see their best years and both would put much less strain on the payroll (for the immediate future anyway).

I have EXTREME concern that Santana will be another player on a long list of acquisitions that we over-paid for after their repsective primes. And in this case...we would overpay both with talent and with dollars.

I am not a fan of making this trade.

HAREN AND BEDARD are the way to go. I don't know why management seems to be blind to this

Patience is needed here. The Twins will get a very good package of players from whomever. My hopes are the Yankees will not be rediculous in their package and they are looking at Bedard and Kazmir. These guys would be cheaper in players and of course salary. I don't believe these guys would be much of a falloff from Santana especially consider the the teams that they are coming from and the run support provided by the Yankees and the winning enviorment at the Bronx address.

Before you scream at me about the falloff, consider the ERA of Santana at Fenway against a good RH hitting team. His ERA at the stadium is against a dominant LH team which has forgottem how to hit Lefties. On another note no one player wins the WS for you. Its about 25 guys doing every little thing to win. So, this is part of my reasoning to not go crazy and give away the farm when other alternatives are out there.

Scott B: we're probably the only two guys who fel this way about the saviour Santana.

Larry,

Count me among those who does not believe that the Santana the Yankees would be getting is nearly as good as the Santana the Twins will have had.

I think this Santana talk is a smokescreen for the real target, Dan Haren.

Larry,

I am now and have always been against a trade for Santana that deals away so much of the Yankee future. I join you, Scott B and Chip in that regard.

The Yankees signed Don Gullett to a big contract after a great season with Cincy and not long after, his rotator cuff took a hike. I can't recall the guys name, but a Balt. pitcher had a great year, became a free agent and I believe signed a 10 year contract with the Indians. I think he only had a handful of wins after that.

I'd be for giving away one of the Big 3 youngsters if the Yanks were dealing for a Bedard or Kazmir. Santana's arm has logged too many inings for comfort and he wants too many years. Sure, he could go on to prove us wrong, but I think the risk is far greater with someone with that much wear and tear on him.

I still think that the best thing that could happn (apart from his waiting it out to FA) is that he goes to the Dodgers. Probably hoping for too much though.

I can understand not wanting to trade for pitchers in their "mid 30's". Santana is in his "prime", and has no history of arm or other injury issues. If you prefer the price of a Haren or Bedard, (where are you injury guys now?), compared to Santana, that I understand. But to worry about Santana possibly getting hurt, or to speculate that his best days are behind him, can be applied to any pitcher or player in general. Always go with quality that is time tested, but short on miles. In short, pay a "reasonable" price, and get the Mercedes. Forget the cheaper Yugo.

Yanks61: I remember those days of Gullett, Andy Mesersmith. The names don't roll off my tongue anymore but the lesser guys came through big Torres, Figueroa. Too old to remember names but lessons learned. I just like Bedard, Kazmir and Haren. Maybe it is a smoke screen because the Yankee brass must have similar reservations about contract compensation and damage to the farm system.

WHY DO WE HAVE TO TRADE FOR SANTANNA?
DO HAVE TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES THIS YEAR?
HOW ABOUT SOME PATIENCE!!!!!

If we do not trade away our future we could still have a good starting rotation & bullpen.

1. Sign Pettite WHATEVER IT TAKES!!!
2. Get rid of Mussina (Get a single a pitcher for him straight up
give money to the team that takes him)
3. Dump the whole bullpen Except Rivera

Starting Rotation
Pettite
Wang
Chamberlain
Hughes
Kennedy

Bullpen
Wright
Whelan
Sanchez
Clippard
Rivera

With those pitchers you will get quality starts and eat up innings and if 1 of the 3 kids becomes what we hope they become it could well be one of the best rotations in baseball. The bullpen can not be any worse than last year and there is a chance it could be very good. Even on a down year Rivera only blew 4 save oportunities. He can not pitch 2 innings anymore but for 1 inning he is still lights out.

GET RID OF GIAMBI!!!! Do the same like I said for Mussina.

Starting Lineup
C Possada
1B Duncan
2B Cano
SS Jeter
3B Choke-Rod (I am pissed he is back)
RF Abreau
CF Cabrera
LF/DH Damon
LF/DH Matsui

With the above lineup and the youngsters in the bullpen and starting rotation we have a very good team. If we are not in the playoff hunt next year at the trade deadline we should trade Abreau Damon & Matsui and bring up the rest of the kids.

Larry M-
Gullet and Messersmith were free agents. Very little at risk except dollars. The Santana "trade" has huge implications now and in the future. To do this deal, (whatever players it takes), will take some "stones" on the part of Hank. I think he will make this trade. He will be torn, but putting his "stamp" on the Yanks will be the deciding factor.

Michael Pastore,

Yes thank you God ... as I have been saying in like 20 Posts ...

Bring back Andy Pettitte, the Bible Boy at 16 million. We need him. He wins 15, Santana wins 20. That's only 5 games we have to make up by keeping Horne, Joba, Hughes, Kennedy and so forth.

All of the Bullpen must go. You are so right. Again Thank God!!!!

Bye bye bullpen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Add to the Bullpen ... guys like these ...

Gregg
Sowers (scrap heap types, hurt, teams down on them)
Armando Benitez (if he can at least do ok here)
Billy Koch (if he can overcome his rare disease)
Joe Nathan (If he still loves Stony Brook)

Get rid of ...

Farns
Igawa
Ron V. (nice guy though!!!)
Veras
Viz
Bean

All of them as you said they must go!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep Bruney though. He throws pretty hard.

A lot hinges on ...

Sanchez
Ohlendorf
Brackman
Carpenter
Horne
Smith
Chris Garcia who is as good or better than Hughes or so someone claims

We need some of them to come through.

Does anyone know how Brackman is doing after his surgery?

Boy George is going to address the pen.

And by the way ...

Lefties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ron Mahay
Eddie Guadardo (not even Torre could wear him out!)
Mark Redmond
Tyler Johnson

Spare Outfielders

Austin Kearns
Ryan Freel
Ankiel
Colby Rasmus
So Tagachi

Spare Infielder for 2B, SS (what if Jeter goes down? Arod to SS?)

David Eckstein

Leadoff hitter

David Eckstein

Guy who has played on 3 World Series teams in past 5 years

David Eckstein

Why sell of the whole team for Santana, Johan?

No no no with Hughes and all the other nice talent being mentioned.

Remember the Frank Viola trade?

Address the small ball, team unity, RISP, 2 outs and man on third, cut off man being hit, hit behind the runner, taking pitches, working the count, getting Cano and Melky to make the pitchers work, ridding the team of dead wood (Giambi, Farns, Mussina, Damon) bringing in right handed power (Piazza, Ludwick) and things can work out ...

Will Santana End Up With The Yanks?

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?&brand=null&videoId=3130533&n8pe6c=2

What a tool? Josh Elliot said The Yankees gets every elite player. The Yankees had to resign their own players Posada and Mariano f*cking nimrod. Everytime Espn are trying to embarrassed The Yankees and not Redsox on National Tv. Yankees hating propaganda by Nesn continues. . Where is double standard? When did Posada suddenly become an Elite player after having one good season.

Posada's lifetime batting is .277. Do you considered him an Elite player?

Why can F*cking tool Josh Elliot and Espn just say The Yankees and Redsox gets all the elite player not only The Yankees? Yankees didn't get Matsuzaka last year, Redsox had the higher bid and won.

I hope that's not your batting order. Mr. no legs leading off

Scott B-

Bedard is a year younger than Santana-He's not a 21 year old stud!

Pastore,
If the Yankees want to win while they still have Rivera, a productive Posada, Matsui, Pettitte etc. they can't wait too long for the kids to grow up. If they trade one of the kids in a deal for a dominant starter like Santana, Haren, Bedard etc. they immediately become dangerous in the playoffs with at least two top flight starters pitching in a short series.

For those who think Santana's best days are behind him, I say that pitchers usually don't hit their peak until they are 30-32 years of age where they really learn to "pitch". Santana is a great athlete, in great shape and at or near the top of his game, he is not some 35 year old on a down slide like the Yanks used to get.
If the Yanks could get Haren without giving up any of the 3 kid pitchers, I'd do that but as I've said many times before, I worry about a guy like Haren getting worried about the short porch at Yankee Stadium and changing his game just as Giambi changed his swing when he came to the Yanks.

I'm listening to Charlie Steiners rather awful show on XM radio's MLB channel and he had a Minnesota columnist on the show and the guy says Santana will definitely be traded...for whatever that is worth.

with that rotation you BETTER hope the Pen is strong,

Sign a soon to be 36 year old for whatever it takes???/

while you state that a 28 year old is washed up???

and to rely on a pitcher in warm weather who is decent

Mike ....FYI Cano -444 and Matsui-440[ both bat left in case you didn't know ] seem to have no problems hitting Santana and Santana has a 6.89 ERA at Fenway that info was posted last night..

You know I have to say I am thankful to all of you for all your great posts ... I always learn a lot ...

And there is much to contemplate on all these various scenarios and deals ...

But also ...

Most of all just I am so disappointed in Pettitte.

They drafted him, paid him well, he was the center of the dynasty teams, or a main cog, sure they did not do him right re: Houston, but the team really needs him now!

Where is his loyalty to the Yanks. Where is his Bible now when the team that made him rich is being held over a barrel vis a vis Johan.

I think it stinks.

I will never look at him the same way again.

Enough with the A Rod archetype high school drama "I dont know if I want to play."

Shut up and play.

Collect your last 16 million, buy gold and Swiss Francs and protect your family from the coming economic downturn.

Help your team make the transition to a new era.

Again, what's the problem?

There's no "I" in team. Especially for US$ 16 million.

Anthony says:

"Where is his loyalty to the Yanks. Where is his Bible..."

I am turning in my old Bibles for a newer model, as soon as I find the one that tells pitchers that the Yankees are more important than family, health, and all that trivia.

I'll post the link as soon as I find out where to get one.

Hell, I'll mail a copy to Andy, with the silk bookmark in place and the passage highlighted.

Here is my final thought for Santana, Johan.

Don't have to worry about Austin Jackson, Tabata or Melky.

Again the Cardinals have 7 good outfielders and need only four.

Encarnacion
Ankiel
Edmonds
Rasmus (Star of Team USA)
Ludwick
So T.
Duncan

Pick any two. I say Rasmus and Ludwick. Ankiel may get cancer like Paul Byrd from HGH, Edmonds left his wife for some blonde, Encarnacion sulked when Ankiel did so great (story of the summer) and So T would be for Japan marketing purposes when Igawa is bombed and Matsui gets hurt. (Believe me, both WILL happen in 2008)

Tell Minny ...

Kennedy
Garcia
Melky or Cano (If Cano then keep Jackson and Tabata)
Either Jackson or Tabata or Cano

They say no ... ?

Then weaken Boston or the Mets with a trade. Eat up Pelfrey, Humber, Bucholtz, Ellsbury ... I can live with that ...

As Jim A said it is musical chairs with Harren, Bedard and Johan cancelling each other out with the Sox, Mets and Yanks. Add Kazmir into that mix.

Anyway if Minny declines that offer ...

Ask Baltimore for Bedard

Ask Tampa for Scotty "Never Before Traded" Kazmir

Ask Oakland for Blanton or Harren.

Ask Tampa for James Shields 186 K's, 30 PLUS walks.

I understand what Johan would do for our team. But we have 12 pitching prospects. Keep Huges and Joba no matter what. Everyone else is on the table.

If you have to trade Cano, put David Eckstein at 2B.

What's the problem?

Eckstein is far better than Cano at all of the intangibles. Think its an accident he's played in 3 of the last 5 World Series?

I think the Yankees have real issues with white Christian players as Chad Curtis went on record saying.

I don't know if it is true but I am really beginning to wonder.

Regardless, lost a lot of respect for Pettitte and all he claims to stand for, leaving the Yanks in a lerch like this when they need him most.

Really pisses me off.

Who are your friends really, unless they are there when you need them most?

Grampa,
Could you send me a copy of that bible when you find it? I've never read the bible but I would have if I'd known it was that interesting.
Does it say "Thou shalt not play with red socks" anywhere in it?
If not, can we add that passage? I think we can get a majority vote.

A little levity never hurts on our beloved blog.....

Grampa,

I'm ransacking my copies with my free hand as I type. So far find nothing in the King James or the Revised Standard, but am only halfway through The Woman's Bible -- left it for last since Elizabeth Cady Stanton, though a wonder in many respects, left no record of interest in baseball...

Roy Storing
You are right about Gullet & Messersmith but that was THE BOSS's moves. Just like Jackson.
The 70s Yankees were not built in Free Agency it was built by the Yankee Farm Sytem and great trades by Gabe Paul
C Munson Farm
1B Chambliss Trade
2B Randolph Trade
SS Dent Free Agent
3B Nettles Trade
RF Jackson Free Agent
CF Rivers
LF/DH White Farm
LF/DH Pinella

SP Guidry Farm
SP Figeroa Trade
SP Hunter Free Agent
SP Torez Trade
SP Gullet Free Agent
SP Beatie Farm
SP/RP Tidrow Farm

RP Clay Farm
CL Lyle Trade
CL Gossage Free Agent

These are the starters for the 77 & 78 Yankees and if you look only 2 positional players 2 Starters & 1 releiver were free agents. That is only 5 of 19 were Free Agent players and actually 1 Gullet was completely useless. That was not the best team Money could buy it was a great team put together by Gabe Paul.

We need to build from within and we have the farm sysytem to do it if we are not stupid and trade it all away.

Roy,

You're absolutely right; Gullett and Messersmith came to the Yanks as free agents, as did Mr No Show himself, what's his name? Oh yeah, Pavano.

But this time the Yanks could lose far more than just a part of their inexhaustible supply of cash. I see that Jim Baumann has now come out against this trade as well. Unfortunately, I see the Yanks pulling the trigger on it and having the 'recoil' hit them a few years down the line.

I hope not. Like all of us here I'd be jolly glad if Santana came over and proved me wrong. Jim A has made an excellent point about not being able to afford to wait too long on the kids, because it may prove to be too late for Posada, Mo, Pettitte, Matsui etc to contribute. Frankly (and here I know I'm going to get KILLED), if I had my druthers, I would, like M Pastore, just wait for the kids to develope - and just fill in where needed from the FA market next year. If they don't make the Playoffs in 2008, I think they'd be in a good position to not only make a strong run in 2009, but also for years to come. Hopefully 2009 wont be too late for the vets to also make a difference.

A Reading from the Book of Grandpa, Chapter I, Verse 1

"The team that drafteth thee, maketh thee rich and giveth thee many rings, lo, though it may banisheth thee to Houston, thou shouldest remembereth them in thier day of need, especially when Minny has-eth them over a barrel. Also thou-est will be paid-est US$ 16 million in the process, which ain't bad-est.

Jim A., marianne and all,

Our beloved blog will be the first to know. In fact I'll post it chapter by chapter. They're no longer than some of our other posts... ;-)

I don't think anyone is asking for the Yankees to trade the whole farm system away, but they have an abundance of pitching, so why not use the farm to upgrade the current pitching staff?

Ant, you come up with some off the wall stuff sometimes.

Encarnacion? His career is in jeopardy after shattering his orbital socket last season.

Anonymous
The Rotation is much better and all we need is 1 or 2 of the 3 kids to do well for us to win 90 games.
Pettite 15 wins
Wang 15 wins
and if we can get 40 wins from the Joba, Hughes & Kennedy while they grow into the pitchers we believe them to be great.

A 36 year old Lefty who KNOWS HOW TO WIN IN NEW YORK & THRIVES IN THE PLAYOFFS YES!!! HE WOULD ALSO BE A GREAT MENTOR FOR THE YOUNG PITCHERS!!!!!!

I NEVER STATED SANTANNA IS WASHED UP!!! I do not want to trade away all our young players for him.

Jim A.
I do not care if they win this year or next I just want Pettite Posada & Rivera to teach the Kids and A-ROD how to win. They are the bridge to the next group. Who cares about Matsui, Damon & Abreau. I want to see these kids the Yankees have grow into the winners they can be. I can wait a couple of more years.

If the Yanks decide to go the Haren or Bedard route, they need to do so while Santana is still being "shopped". Once Santana is traded, the price for both Haren and Bedard will jump appreciably.

Good point Roy (14:31 post). Everyone is waiting around for the first shoe to drop before they make their moves.

The Yanks can afford to be patient to a point. One thing that cannot happen is to wake up next week and read how the Red Sox have acquired Santana.

Do any of the people who say Santana is past his prime watch him pitch?

His left handed change-up is not going anywhere as he gets older. That is the pitch that makes him so dominate over any batter in the major leagues. It is the hardest change-up to hit in the game.

I do not care if his fastball drops into the low 90's over the next 5 years. He would still have a big enough difference between his really really good change-up.

With all that said. I say we should not give up more than Melky, Hughes and 2 non-outfield prospects.

We need as many chances at scoring a star outfielder these next few years from within our organization as we can get with Abreu, Damon and Matsui heading out the door.

One thing about Bedard, Angelos will never trade him to the Yankees.

Yanks Fan MC,

Yes, as you well know, Encarnaction was hit in the on deck circle, a terrible thinf like Steve Yeager ... this happened right after he was pooh poohing in the St Louis Post Dispatch about how Ankiel was the new star and he was on the bench.

Bla bla bla ...

A freak?

A wake up call?

If you read my post I didn't say to get Encarnacion.

I said get Ludwick and Rasmus

So let's conclude ...

Encarnacion: No.

Ludwick: Yes

Rasmus: Yes

As a would be Gabe Paul you have to look for the bargains.

Cards have 7 outfielders, 6 if Juan is down, so they can still trade one or two.

Cashman, pick up el telefono ...

Yanks Fan MC,

Yes, as you well know, Encarnaction was hit in the on deck circle, a terrible thing like Steve Yeager ... this happened right after he was pooh poohing in the St Louis Post-Dispatch about how Ankiel was the new star and he was on the bench.

Bla bla bla ...

A freak?

A wake up call?

If you read my post I didn't say to get Encarnacion.

I said get Ludwick and Rasmus

So let's conclude ...

Encarnacion: No.

Ludwick: Yes

Rasmus: Yes

As a would be Gabe Paul you have to look for the bargains.

Cards have 7 outfielders, 6 if Juan is down, so they can still trade one or two.

Cashman, pick up el telefono ...

Steve - O

Let the Sox take Santana. They would have to give up Elsbury who they desperately need to replace coco and/or Manny in the coming years.

They would also need to give up Lester or Bucholz or both. Schilling and wakefield are not going to be in the rotation for long and they are going to need to replace them soon as well.

The Sox do not have the farm system we have right now full of prospects that they can trade away.

Sorry for the double post it was my kitty Bleep on the keyboard

:. This is the little paw print

Baseball America's Jim Callis on what he thinks it would take for the Yankees to get Santana:

Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, Tabata, Jackson.

Once again I will say it - no EFFING WAY. No way do I do that trade, in fact if asked for that package the only thing the Twins' GM would hear from my end of the phone would be the dial tone.

People, Santana is not a savior. I've said it before and will say it again if need be. He is the best pitcher in baseball, but he was the best pitcher in baseball in 2006 too. That year he had a team that had the AL MVP, the AL Batting Champ, one of the top three closers in the game and GOT BOUNCED BY OAKLAND!

Tell me, is a rotation of Santana, Wang, Joba, Mussina, Horne really that much better than what the Yankees closed out this last year with? Is it really worth it to return the farm system to the barren state it was in at the end of the 90s and start of this decade where guys like Drew Henson and Brandon Claussen were considered the organization's top prospects? Cashman and Damon Oppenheimer have done a great job building up the talent in the organization - that doesn't mean they should shoot their entire wad on one player.

And consider the lineup implications if that trade were to happen:

Damon CF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
Alex
Matsui LF
Posada C
Cano 2b
Giambi DH
Betemit 1B

You've got at least 3 players there who will likely miss time with injuries (Damon, Matsui, Giambi) and ZERO useful talent to replace them.

Chip I do not understand how Jim Callis came up with the fact he thinks we need to give up 2 of the big 3 and our 3 best young talented outfielders.

The Twins stated they are after 1 of the big three and Melky and 1 more pospect.

That is a fair trade if it is Kennedy or Hughes and only 1 of our outfield prospects.

Anything more is crazy and jeopardizes our future outfield and starting pitching.

*******OFF TOPIC ALERT********************
Please don't get mad at me, but I'm desperate for some help
*****************************************************************

Folks,
Since 99% of you are Yankee fans, I consider you people of good taste so I need some help and I'd really appreciate any constructive input you can give me. It's freakin' Christmas time already and I usually buy my staff small gifts (besides the bonus and dinner they get) but I always have the toughest time coming up with the gift ideas.
Keep in mind, my staff is 15 people, 13 of them are men. I'd also like to keep the gifts at $50 or under. Only one is a Yankee fan and I already am giving him a Robinson Cano autographed bat.
Can anyone think of anything I can get for the others? I hate to just do gift cards but if I can't think of anything I will have to.
Thanks in advance for your input and once again, I apologize for the off topic nature of this post.
**********************************************************************

Chip,
If you added Pettitte to that rotation it would be much more palatable but I agree with you, Callis is nuts if he thinks the Yanks could give up all of that.

Jim,

Believe it or not, gift cards are a great idea. If not, a nice box of cigars, or bottle of booze is always appreciated.

Chip, you're a smart man.

You've been echoing many of the same points I've made the last week regarding Santana.

He's not the savior that many people on this board think he is.

Let th Red Sox overspend in prospects and cash for Santana. The Yanks will start hitting him eventually just like they did Pedro, Beckett, Schilling, and Matsuzaka.

Keep the kids and build a stable of depth in the rotation. Santana can't win playoff series by himself or he would have done so already - as good as the Twins were last season.

McCarthy:

He also believes the Sox would have to give up Bucholtz, Lester, Ellsbury, and Crisp. And that the Angels would have to part with Wood, Weaver, Kendrick, and Willits.

All these proposals seem WAY too high - but again, if any team could make a deal like that and not hurt their long or short term systems it would be the Angels.

Jim,

Everyone on my list whose personal tastes/needs are not well known to me gets gift cards. Most people love having the option of buying something for themselves, a guilt-free indulgence! My mother is in her late eighties and no longer enjoys shopping, so she gives all of us gift cards and I love 'spending' mine.

Viper:

Exactly my friend. Look, the thought of Beckett and Santana in the same rotation for the next 6 years is terrifying, especially in the playoffs. It would be like Arizona with Johnson and Schilling - but it is no less terrifying to me than having to rely on more overpriced, underachieving veterans to come in year after year because the Yankees have no farm system to speak of.

Do the Angels have a strong farm system right now?

Jim A

Texas Roadhouse Gift Cards!!!!!

TY, you are correct. No way the O's deal Beddard to us. The only trade between the two teams recently I remember was Wright for Britton et all, which was basically a salary dump. No way is Angelos, a terrible business man and owner, going to deal with the Yanks, even if it helps his team (and I'm not sure that even matters to him anymore).

I also am starting to agree with the "don't trade for Santana" crowd. Santana had the worst year of his career. He had bone chips removed from his elbow in 2004 and is coming off surgery this year (albeit fairly minor). THe numbers against the Sux, likely our biggest obstacle, are not good. If memory serves me correctly, Santana was solid but not great in the playoffs in '06 against the A's, not exactly the ace we're looking for. With all the Minnesota wants, and with our need to rebuild our pitching staff completely in the next few years, one "ace" at this point is not as important as overall depth.

The guy who expressed his disappointment with Pettite is an idiot. Look, the guy has been a warrior for years and negotiated a player option based on his accomplishments. If he's ready to retire to spend more time with his family or his heart isn't in it anymore, that's his right, he's earned it. The Yanks weren't exactly loyal to Andy when he left for Houston....

NOT SANTANA RELATED:

The Rule V Draft is coming up - last year the Yankees participated for the first time in years by taking Josh Phelps. This year a couple of Yankees (Steven Jackson and Brett Smith) might get plucked but there are some good players out there that the Yankees might be interested in:

Matt Whitney (1B) out of the Indians' Organization. He's 24 and only in High A ball but he also drilled out 32 HR last year - it would be a zero risk proposition to bring him in and at least see if he can win a roster spot out of spring training

Kyle Aselton (LHP) out of the Twins Org. 25 and also in A ball - walks way too many (6 per 9 IP) but strikes out a ton too (11 per 9) maybe a lefty in the pen?

Leyson Septimo (LHP) from Arizona - 22 years old, the D'Backs were converting him from an OF to a pitcher this winter. In Winter League his fastball was clocking in at triple digits - has to be worth a look right?

and another one:

Brian Barton, of, Indians

Ever the enigma, Barton went undrafted in 2004 after clubs were scared off by his aerospace engineering major at Miami. The Indians signed him for $100,000 and an additional $100,000 in college funds after a brief showing in the Cape Cod League and Barton has not looked back. A five-tool player who can play all three outfield spots, Barton has been hampered by a lingering knee injury since his breakout year in 2006 when he hit .322 with 19 homers and swiped 41 bags in 49 attempts. Even with the knee problem, Barton still turned in a .305/.402/.420 season in 2007, finishing the year in Triple-A. Quiet and leading through example through his 2006 season, some scouts expressed concerns about Barton's demeanor. "I loved him that first year in Double-A," one scout from a National League club said. "But this past year, it was almost like he'd earned this elite status and you saw him have this lackadaisical approach to the game that wasn't there before. Where he was playing with chips on both shoulders with something to prove initially, that part of his game was replaced by some sort of false bravado. He's really tough to get a handle on, but the tools are very real."

Although I don't see it as a good enough reason for pulling the trigger on a Santana deal, I do think landing him would significantly increase the chances of Andy Pettitte returning for a real shot at another ring.

Just playing a little devil's advocate here, but I don't think it's worth the gamble, especially if Hughes, Joba, or Cano is involved.

Gifty Card for Scores!

Jim A,

$50 dollar gift cards are a great idea. Pick a good dept store that everyone can find something in and go purchase cards for that store.

Also, since you're in the DC area, maybe something Redskin-related will suffice.

Just a few thoughts.

Viper -

Joba, and Cano should not even be considered.

Hughes I personally do not want to let go because I believe he has incredible potential. We can all see he has the "stuff" to be very successful. But I also believe he has the guts to do well in the post season. My basis on that is only on what I say in the playoffs this year when he came in to save a win for the Yanks and Clemens. He did not look nervous at all. I would rather have a guy like that, even if he only wins 10-15 games next year then a guy who wins 20 and does not have the guts to shutdown a team in the playoffs.

I look at a Santana deal this way. Would the Tigers trade Curtis Granderson and Jeremy Bonderman to the Twins for Santana? No. Within 3 years I think we will be talking about Hughes and Jackson the same way the Tiger fans talk about Bonderman and Granderson.

Chip,
We could be talking about Hughes and Jackson the way the Mets talk about Pelfrey and Milledge now.....you just never know.

All: Thanks for the gift ideas. I thought the gift cards might make it seem like I didn't put any thought into it but you folks provided some good insight. I think I'll do like a Visa gift card or something like that.
Thanks again....you folks rule!

Yeah, but --

wasn't Hughes supposed to be developing a changeup?

We've had a lot of reminders on here that Santana is not a 'savior', but SOME of us at least seem to be making some awfully 'saviorly' assumptions about Hughes.

Yes at 22 he has not yet come into his full strength, but what about his variety of pitches? What development did he demonstrate there last season? Or did he end up about where he started in that department?

Just asking.

Diane,

As far as Hughes development this past year I do not think he had much of a chance to actually develop his pitches. I think he developed a lot as a player and getting comfortable pitching in the majors.

Read this, excerpt from an interview with him at the beginning of this season:

BA: Has that become your primary offspeed pitch?

PH: "It has. My curve has come a long way, so I've pretty much steered away from the slider. I'm throwing it on the side a little to keep it fresh, but I'm not using it in games right now."

BA: Tell us a little about your curveball.

PH: "I'm comfortable throwing it for strikes, and I'm also relying on it as an out pitch. I throw more of a 12-to-6 when I'm mostly looking to get it over, and then with two strikes I throw one that has a little more plane to it; more of a 1-to-7."

BA: How would you assess your changeup, and how often are you using it?

PH: "It's coming along, although it's not where I want it to be. I consider it a solid pitch for me, though. I'd say that I throw it about 10 percent of the time, maybe 8 times out of 80 pitches. I throw my curve more, maybe 20 to 30 percent of the time, if I had to guess."

BA: Where is the velocity of your fastball right now, and do you consider it your best pitch?

PH: "It's always my ‘go to’ pitch, because a well-located fastball is the best pitch in the game. I'm generally sitting between 92 and 94 (mph) with it, and I'll touch 95-96. I'm mostly going with 4-seamers, although I'll throw a few 2-seamers that are closer to 91-92."

Some of you guys are burnt on this blog. Do you read your posts before hitting the "send" button or is it simply BOMBS AWAY???

In what universe do teams trade talented young pitchers WITHIN their own division???? PLEASE STOP talking about Bedard and Kazmir ... Yanks WILL NOT get those guys unless they're willing to part w/ a king's ransom so what's the point?

Focus on Santana first and if Twins insist on too much then peel back ... nobody else can put together a package for Johan like the Yanks can (unless Mets throw in Reyes) ... his price will come down. If not, I agree w/ targeting Haren and save a ton of money and prospects w/out a drastic drop off in production.

And for those of you saying Santana is not in his prime ... stop it already. The guy is a super stud and will remain that way for the next 3 years at a minimum. A 6 year deal gives us 3 stellar years, 2 very good years and 1 so so year. If you wouldn't sign up for that you're nuts!

Report out of Minny that the Twins are close to dealing Matt Garza for the Rays Delmon Young,Harris and Pridie. Twins would also give up Bartlett and Rincon. Pridie is a CF with a lot of upside.

Thats good for us because we may not have to deal any of our OF prospects them.

It could be bad for us because they would no longer need Melky and then they would demand more than just 1 of the big 3. They may look more at Cano in this case.

Granpa and Marianne,

Even though I am commanded not to "cast pearls before swine" I felt compelled to think of a Biblical basis for Andy Pettitte to come back for one more season.

I cite ...

They drafted him
Give him countless millions
Developed a great team around him
Many Rings
(Yes they banished him to Houston which angered me!)
Brought him back
Gave him more millions
Are offering him even more millions

In all of these posts about Johan Santana it never occured to me how much stronger the Yanks position would be with Pettitte already on board.

Duh! Stupid Anthony!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In a general sense, the Yanks have been a great friend to Andy. Now they need him to come back and be a veteran lefty on the staff. Since Ted Lilly was not brought back (he beat up his manager after giving up 7 ER in ONE inning) and we are stuck with Igawa, and the Twins have us over a barrell vis a vis Johan, and the future of the team would be greatly enhanced if we didn't have to overpay for Johan, it would be just peachy, no rather super peachy if Andy Pettitte could suck it up for one more year.

Add to that ...

The economy is about to collapse.

He can buy gold and Swiss Francs and Euros and secure things for his family with the last 16 mil he'll ever see ...

He must have 30 opr 40 million in the bank by now. He can bring a private jet, tutors, doctors, anything he needs to care for his family. True, it is objective reality that New York is not Texas spiritually, but there are many good people left in New York anyway. We don't need another Mike Hampton who can't hack it in Trump Tower.

I have put together a few verses for you ... about loyalty, trust and friendship ...

Here they are ...

Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their labor. For if they fall, one will lift up his companion. But woe to him who is alone when he falls for he has no one to help him up. -- Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 New King James Version

A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.
-- Prov 17:17 New International Version

Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep.
-- Rom 12:15 New King James Version (We'll weep if we have to trade Horne, Hughes, Jackson and Tabata and Melky for Santana!)

Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful. -- Prov 27:6 New King James Version

A man that hath friends must show himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
Prov 18:24 New King James Version

The Yanks need Andy Pettitte to commit right now to another season. This will put the team that drafted him and made his rich in a better position to make a deal for Bedard, Scotty the Z and or Bedard.

SI Tom Verducci pick Big Papi as Sportsman of the Year'
[quote]
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/magazine/specials/sportsman/2007/11/26/verducci.ortiz/index.html

David Ortiz never walks alone. People -- teammates, opponents, officials, fans, even Yankee fans -- are drawn to the perpetual sunlight that is his personality. No player in all of baseball is more universally respected and genuinely liked by his peers than Ortiz, a self-made hitter and born leader who is hitting coach, counselor, philosopher and confidant in two languages.
[b]
"This game," Ortiz says, "is all about confidence. Who can tell you the right words at the right time just at the moment you need it? That's all I try to do. Guys will come up to me. 'I have a question for you.' I'll give them an answer. I like to share with people."
[/b]
History, which can't be bothered much by nuance, will recall this year in baseball for two bombshell stories that involved the same man: baseball crowned a new all-time home champion and the feds indicted him. Talk about taking the collar. Precisely times like these, however, should cause us to appreciate what the sport has in people like Ortiz, who reminds us that world class ability and kindness do not have to be mutually exclusive.

The man they call Big Papi is my Sportsman of the Year, a title he qualifies for in just about any year, though this one was particularly praiseworthy. How good was he? Ortiz became only the 10th American Leaguer to lead the league in on-base percentage and extra-base hits in the same season, joining the hallowed company of Frank Thomas, Carl Yastrzemski, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams, Jimmie Foxx, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Tris Speaker and Nap Lajoie. It marked the third time he lead the AL outright in extra-base hits, something only six legends have done (Hank Greenberg, Lou Gehrig, Ruth, Sam Crawford, Cobb and Lajoie).

He was the number three hitter and inspirational leader of the world champion Red Sox, adding to his legacy as the greatest clutch hitter of his generation. If you'd like proof that he delivered when it counted, check out these splits: .396 in September, .362 with runners in scoring position, .304 with two outs and runners in scoring position, .367 with runners on, .358 vs. the Yankees and .370 in the postseason (when he reached base 31 times in 14 games).

And there was his famous oratory work after a Game 3 loss in the ALCS, when he called a players-only meeting and, tugging on "Boston" across the chest of his uniform shirt, reminded his teammates that being a Red Sox player meant being a warrior, though the moment called for less Churchillian word choice. The Red Sox did lose Game 4 before they ripped off seven consecutive wins to the world championship, but the import of the anecdote is that Ortiz, especially in a time of crisis, is the undisputed voice and soul of the ballclub.

For a fifth straight season, Ortiz finished in the top five in MVP voting without actually winning the darn thing, winding up, beginning in 2003, fifth, fourth, second, third and fourth. Such consistency is worth recognition in itself. But what defines Ortiz as a person, and as a sportsman, too, is how he cares about other people. In an age when great athletes tend to think ability not only sets them apart from others but also above them, Ortiz is remarkably grounded.

He was one of the first athletes to respond to Hurricane Katrina relief efforts, writing a $50,000 check within hours of the disaster. When he broke the franchise record for home runs in 2006 he auctioned off the ball and gave the money to charities. Last December he presented $200,000 from himself and the Red Sox to a hospital in Santo Domingo to cover the cost of heart surgeries for children. When a high school baseball team from the Dominican Republic visited Fort Myers, Fla., during spring training, Ortiz gave the players equipment and also an inspirational talk about the importance of education.

On Nov. 18, the day of his 32nd birthday, Ortiz was at a Plainville, Mass., Stop & Shop to raise money, clothing and food to help victims of Hurricane Noel in the Dominican Republic. Ortiz will visit his homeland this week to help distribute the relief items and, in January, to host his annual golf tournament that supports various charities in the Dominican.

Speaking to fans in the supermarket parking lot, in front of a 40-foot trailer filled with donations, Ortiz said, "From the bottom of my heart, this is huge. This is a wonderful thing and it's going to help a lot of people. You cannot imagine. You have no clue about the people that are going to be helped.''

And then Ortiz said, "You guys are going to make me cry. I better stop."

Think of Ortiz as a role model not just for kids, but for other athletes. He gets it. He is an ambassador for his sport, an elite player who understands that with privilege comes responsibility, a supremely confident superstar with a social conscience.

[b]"I don't want life to be boring just because I have everything and it may seem like I don't have to fight for anything," Ortiz says. "Life is not interesting when you get to that point. For some people who have everything, they wind up losing the fear for things.

"Everything for me is going great. I can't ask for anything better. I think the one thing, though, I think about a lot, and I'm not going to lie to you, is I get sad when I think about my mom. When I think about her I wish she could be here to be with me and see this."

Angela Rosa Arias, his mom, died in a car crash in January 2002. She was 46.

"I'm just like my mom," he says. "I get a lot from my dad, too, but I'm most like my mom. She always impressed on me the importance of being respectful to other people. I came from a great family, I'm not going to lie to you. I had a good education, a good family. We weren't rich, but I had things when I needed them as a child.

"Now I'm trying to teach my kids about what's important. They've got a nice home, everything they need, a great mommy, an OK daddy trying to be a great daddy . . . and I'm trying to teach them they can never forget that life is for real."[/b]

Ortiz recently underwent surgery on his right knee and, for a few days, needed crutches. One day he was at the top of a staircase in his home, struggling to steady his grip on a laptop computer in a case while figuring out how to negotiate the stairs with the crutches and the case.

His three-year-old son, D'Angelo, who is named after Ortiz's mother, was standing at the bottom of the stairs.

"Daddy," the boy said, "do you want me to help you with that, because I think you're hurting?"

Ortiz laughed, thinking, This computer bag is bigger than he is! And then he smiled proudly at his son, recognizing in his little boy the wonder of kindness.[/quote]

The Rotation is much better and all we need is 1 or 2 of the 3 kids to do well for us to win 90 games.
Pettite 15 wins
Wang 15 wins
and if we can get 40 wins from the Joba, Hughes & Kennedy while they grow into the pitchers we believe them to be great.

A 36 year old Lefty who KNOWS HOW TO WIN IN NEW YORK & THRIVES IN THE PLAYOFFS YES!!! HE WOULD ALSO BE A GREAT MENTOR FOR THE YOUNG PITCHERS!!!!!!

I NEVER STATED SANTANNA IS WASHED UP!!! I do not want to trade away all our young players for him.

Jim A.
I do not care if they win this year or next I just want Pettite Posada & Rivera to teach the Kids and A-ROD how to win. They are the bridge to the next group. Who cares about Matsui, Damon & Abreau. I want to see these kids the Yankees have grow into the winners they can be. I can wait a couple of more years.

================================================

that sounds nice but the team was exited in the 1st round.

pettite is very good but he has what a few years left ??

while we have the chance of landing a great pitcher @ 28 years old.

Mo and Pettite's behavior now is something I would not want to teach a youngster. If Pettite was the real teacher he would have been signed and invited Hughes , Joba over for workouts right now. the way the rocket did when he came over

McCarthy,

Thanks, I appreciate the refresher. Remember seeing the article at the time and thinking Hughes sounded pretty objective and professional for such a young guy.

Apologies to everyone else, promis this is not only my first but my LAST Biblical quote, Diane will be yelling at me any second now --

ANTHONY, you skipped right over Matt. 7:1-5 to verse 6 and YOU really should not do that. Back to your homework! Write them out by hand in ink fifty times.

anon yankee fan if that report is true the rays pitching staff will have kazmir,shields and garza with rincon as a set up man not bad they probably will finish ahead of boston.

To Jim A: I think gift cards are a great idea. I don't know the salary structure of your employees but to save $50 bucks with coffee purchases or on lunch for a week. This means alot to the average guy. But there's one drawback with gift cards and companies make big profits in the fact that the cards are not used or lost.

Grampa, happy to acknowledge you as my fellow swine... LOL!!

Diane

Good point!!

We all love Hughes and I am certain that to a man (not named Roy or Rick) we'd all wince parting ways with his potential BUT Diane is right the kid threw 2 not 3..TWO PITCHES ALL SEASON INCLUDING THE GAMES AGAINST THE INDIANS.

WHERE IS THIS 3RD PITCH WE KEEP HEARING ABOUT CAUSE I NEVER SAW IT!!

Sure it's still fresh in our minds and him showing up heroically against the Indians does have significant impact in all this talk and it should but has anyone ever considered that the Indians may just not match up well with Hughes? He murdered them ever time he faced them and changeup schmange up he owns the Indians.

I don't mean to down play it too much because his courage and poise especially given the circumstance and his age was yes very impressive. I'm just trying to point out that we should try to keep a proper perspective regarding that performance in October.

Now if he had a 3rd pitch ie A CHANGE UP!! that he could throw with his curve and 91mph (Yes not 96) fastball than I may change my mind.

$hit if anyone can guarantee me the kid will have just an average change up that he can throw with decent command I'd probably pull the kid off the table altogether.

Until then If it's Hughes/Melky/Tabata I make the deal, drink a fifth of bourbon, and cry myself to sleep.

Bedard and Kazmir would be FANTASTIC but as someone has already pointed out it's lunacy. No way do you give up those guys so you can face them 20 times a year.

That leaves Haren.

Sure I'd take him. In fact I'm quite fond of the young man but he's RIGHT HANDED!!

With Pettitte pulling a Hamlet not to mention his age...I mean seriously if he comes back it's probably just this year so we NEED A LEFTY.

Not to mention this Santana fellow is pretty good.

P

Wayne Garland won 20 and Cleveland signed him to a 10 year contract.
Posada is elite because he's a catcher that hits. .270 is awesome for a catcher, not to mention 20 homers. He has stayed healthy, his 'D' has improved with experience.
Jose Veras is a keeper.
Pettitte will return.
Forget Eckstein.
The Yanks need to keep Chamberlain & Hughes. They may be as good as Santana. Cano (and his Carew comparisons) should be untouchable and Melky should play CF until Jackson is ready. Thus, Santana must be had in a deal not including those guys. He is an ace and the Yanks need an ace very, very badly. More than anything else. Tabata, Kennedy and/or one or two others should be enough.

Amen to the comments that Santana is not a savior. What the Yanks need is better bullpen. Middle relief is what wins pennants - just look at the Yanks' record once Joba came on board. Very reminiscent of Mo's impact in '96.

And hell yes to the comments that we should just let the kids develop. Fercrissakes, why do the Yanks ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO WIN EVERY SINGLE FRACKING YEAR? What is so horrible about writing off a year or two? Is there some set date for Armageddon and we have to get as many World Series rings before then? Just let some development take place. That's what the Sox did and their patience bore fruit.