On the Yankees beat

This is the reason Why Jim Hawkins didn't pick Arod to win the Mvp

[quote]http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/111807/spo_20071118163.shtml

In baseball, what goes around comes around

By JIM HAWKINS
Of The Oakland Press

It is, indeed, a peculiar world in which we live.

Al Capone, this country's most infamous crook, killed and robbed, pillaged and plundered. But in the end, he went to prison, not for his countless crimes, but rather for neglecting to pay income tax on his ill-gotten gains.

Now Barry Bonds, the most prodigious home run hitter our national pastime has ever known, is facing up to 30 years behind bars -- not for disgracing the game and distorting the record book by allegedly using steroids, Human Growth Hormones and who knows what else -- but rather for not telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth when asked about his possible physical enhancement before a federal grand jury.

This isn't about steroids anymore. It's now about lying. In baseball, as in life, things are not always as they seem. And as Dick Nixon discovered, the coverup can often be much worse than the crime.

Elsewhere, consider the curious and costly case of Alex Rodriguez, who is reportedly ready to sign a record-breaking 10-year, $275 million contract to remain with the New York Yankees -- days after those same Yankees, now run by the Sons of Steinbrenner, told A-Rod, or more specifically, his strong-arming agent, Scott Boras, to take a hike.

As a result of that supposedly nasty spat, Rodriguez gets the richest contract in baseball history, breaking his own record of $250 million for 10 years. Boras gets his hefty commission, even though he was not even allowed in the negotiating room. And the supposedly overmatched Steinbrenner brothers get to save face by hanging on to A-Rod.

[b]The Yankees, armed with $21.3 still due Rodriguez under the terms of his original 10-year, $250 million contract with the Rangers, were reportedly prepared to offer A-Rod a new deal worth $300 million for 10 years.

But that was before Boras, feeling his oats in the wake of Rodriguez's monster season (54 HRs, 156 RBI), announced during the World Series that A-Rod was opting out of his existing agreement with the Yanks and demanded a mind-boggling 10-year, $350 million deal.

The decision delighted the Rangers, who were suddenly off the hook. And it deprived the Yankees of that $21 million cushion.

If the reported numbers in A-Rod's proposed new contract are correct, the Yankees have extracted their pound of flesh. They deducted $25 million from their offer.

Winners -- and losers -- all around.[/b]

Finally, on Friday, veteran left-hander Kenny Rogers, another Boras client, also came to the realization that his ever ego-tripping agent was actually doing him a disfavor by shopping his client around with contract demands that were going nowhere -- when he already had a reasonable, acceptable offer from the Tigers in hand.

So, in a baseball version of man-bites-dog, the 43-year-old Rogers fired his money-grubbing agent -- who just last week had the audacity to chastize a reporter who had e-mailed Rogers, asking the pitcher if he would like to tell his side of the festering contract squabble.

What goes around, comes around.

Rogers has insisted all along that, if he elected not to call it quits after 19 years in the big leagues, his first choice would be to pitch one more season for the Tigers.

The Tigers said all along that their first choice was to bring Kenny back. Sounds like a marriage made in heaven, right?

Well, it was -- until Boras butted in.

Suffice to say, the Tigers were more than miffed. So miffed, in fact, that Dave Dombrowski immediately called Boras' bluff and began shopping for another starter to take Rogers' place.

First-come, first-served.

For Boras, such negotiations are always high stakes games of chicken. But Rogers and Rodriguez finally realized it was their careers and their livelihoods that were at stake.

Now, Rogers, a free agent, is truly free to pick where he will pitch next summer -- and for how much.

Rogers will soon re-sign with the Tigers for roughly the same $8 million salary he received last season -- when, because of injuries, he made only 11 starts, pitched just 63 innings, and won a mere three games.

For that Boras had the gall to demand a substantial raise? As in the case of A-Rod, Boras overplayed his hand with Rogers. Like A-Rod, Rogers -- who rehabilitated his tarnished image and reputation in Detroit with his gutsy performance in 2006 -- had been made to look like a bad guy again, a heartless mercenary, because of the actions of his greedy agent.

Rogers, who was sidelined by a sore elbow during the latter stages of the 2007 season, recently underwent another MRI exam and has been pronounced ready to pitch.

Rogers will ultimately get his $8 million and the opportunity to again pitch for the team of his choice. The Tigers will get their man. And Boras will probably get his commission on that contract -- even if, as he did with another disgruntled former client, the Tigers' Gary Sheffield, he has to sue for it.

When will they ever learn?

Jim Hawkins is the baseball writer and a sports columnist for The Oakland Press. E-mail him at jim.hawkins@oakpress.com[/quote].

Steve Phillips on A-Rod

Anyone get a load of what this idiot had to say today?

"What does A-Rod need to work on?"

Steve Phillips: "That overriding sense of failure he must feel."

This is the same Steve Phillips who said A-Rod would sign somewhere else. He's as good a predictor as he was a GM.

Steve Phillips is right up there with John Kruk when it comes to baseball predictions. They both said there was no way the Yanks would make the playoffs the last 2 years. Kruk even predicted that Randy Johnson would win 30 games the 1st year he wore pinstripes. Phillips brought Mo Vaughn aboard which basically "paralyzed" the Mets for several years. Todays signing of Castillo for 4 yrs is easy to understand when baseball history shows guys like Phillips at the helm.

The YANKEES Electronic Ad Bill Board next to I 87 Yankee Staduim congradulated AROD as MVP.

PS... THE YANKEES control the Board

Hey Kat, What happened on that conference call with Rodriguez?

This is the problem with the MVP award. As far as I am concern it should only be given to players on the teams that go to the World Series. It should then be the manager, coaches, & players of the teams to vote for the MVP of that team. How can you be an MVP of a team and be the biggest playoff chocker of all time?
The team got blown away in the playoffs and he was not the only reason for them losing but he was a major contributer.
I love Don Mattingly but he did not deserve it either in 1995. I thought that was the reason they created The Hank AAron award for the best hitter like the Cy Young Award for the best pitcher?
MVPs should only go to the World series teams. The MVPs of those teams are truely MVPs.

Sorry it was 1985 Mattinglly's MVP. Slip of the finger.

The only award that really matters is a World Series Championship. All the other awards are meaningless. We are fans of the greatest sports organization in the world, because it has won more championships than any other. Not because it has had more MVP's, Cy Young winners, Gold Glovers, Hall of Famers, etc.

That is my point Roy. You do not need a player that has a player with 54 HRs to win. He is a symptom of why the Yankees have failed this decade. The best players at every position might not be the best team.

SO it was a waste for mattingly as well in 1985? right

Anonymous
Yes, absolutely did the Yankees win? No so Mattingly did not deserve it. This is the reason MLB created the Hank Aaron award for the best hitter. That award A-Rod DESERVED HANDS DOWN!!!!!!
But he is not an MVP. Ramirez, Paplebon yes A-ROD NO!!!!!

Michael:

According to your thought process maybe we shouldn't have a regular season, just the World Series. The regular season is a waste, it's meaningless.

Realistically we all know that the team that wins the World Series is not necessarily the best team and we know that all the members of that team aren't necessarily the best players.

What if the actual best team with the best players has injuries to half the team and their statistics suffer? Does that mean the players that produced their butts off don't deserve recognition?

You can't judge a team and their players by the World Series alone. I don't feel your argument holds any water because then the regular season means nothing and that's just not the case.

Anonymous
What is the ultimate goal of the season? To go to the World Series and Win. If you do not get there you are not the MVP for the respective leagues. Cy Young, Hank Aaron, Rolaids winners not MVPs for the regular season.
MVP is the MOST VALUABLE PLAYER not necessarily the best player.

You are right, Anemone. Recognition awards are for the best players at their position (Gold Gloves) best hitters at each position, pitchers - starter and reliever, and overall player. The World Series is a "team" award, for the best team in baseball. Both awards are valid and should co-exist. Both concepts are sound.
Might as well stop the All Star game too!
Open yer eyes!

Michael,
According to you the only valuable teams and valuable players are those who win the World Series? Is that it? The rest are just garbage, a waste of time? Regular season is worthless and meaningless? Beg to differ and I'm not alone. Obviously baseball experts agree that the MVP can belong to players whose teams don't make the World Series. There's a reason for that -- which is that the regular season is valuable.

Well put Mike from NJ

Mike from Jersey
I am not saying do awy with individual awards, but it should not include the MVPs. Who is more valuable than the MVP of the team that wins the World Series? Nobdy!!!!! The teams that go to the World Series should elect their Team MVPs.
The regular season has enough individual awards:
Cy Young (Best Pitcher)
Hank Aarron (Best Hitter)
Rolaids (Best Releiver)
Gold Gloves (Best Fielder 1 for each position)
All Star

Yes each playoff series has an MVP but that is only for the playoff round.

The overall MVPs should only be from the teams that go to the World Series.

But the World Series DOES HAVE AN MVP -- and so does the regular season. A-Rod is MVP of the regular season -- Lowell was MVP of the World Series. What's your real point?

With your thinking Michael, the World Series would team would have two MVP's.

Wow...
I am defending A-Rod's MVP against Papelbon with Michael Pastore

I love Ramirez.
I am as big a Ramirez fan as you will ever meet

The MVPs of the Red Sox were Lowell, Beckett, Ortiz and Papelbon

There have been many World Series winners that don't have an MVP

Being on a World Series winner shouldn't be the only prerequisite for being the MVP. I actually like that it is purely a regular season award. Pre-Juiced Barry Bonds practically won 2 division titles by himself and turned a moribund Giants franchise around in 1993. He deserved those MVPs even though his team didn't win

And what about the league that doesn't win the World Series?
Don't they get an MVP?

Michael ... although it's not announced until after the World Series, voting for MVP closes before the start of post-season. Do you need any further argument that it's intended to honor accomplishments during the season? The best yardstick I ever heard for MVP was to remove a player from his team's roster and gauge where they would have ended up. If a team misses the WS, or even the playoffs, but would have been in the cellar without a certain player, that player is definitely MVP caliber.

Well said Beth.

Anonymous
Actually yes they would their are no individual awards for the playoffs.
Sully,
The loing team of the World Series has there league MVP on thier team.
Barry Bonds pre juiced was the best player I ever saw but he should of won only for the years his team went to the World Series.
MVP is MVP not best.

Beth
I understand that, THAT IS THE FLAW OF THE AWARD!!!!!
I am making a statement based on my beliefs. There are enough individual awards for the regular season.
My feeling is the MVP should be about:
1. Winning
2. Stats
3. Intangibles ala leadership

The only people that should be able to vote is the players and coaches of the teams in the World Series because only they could truly equate who is their MVP.

Michael Pastore, I'm about to ask an ignorant question. Who decides now who was the World Series MVP?

Or anybody who can enlighten me actually...

Diane
I believe the commisioner but do not hold me to that.

The regular season its the sports writers from all over the country.

It SHOULD only be the players & coaches of the World Series representatives.

I am leaving for dinner but does anybody else feel the award is flawed? I check back in later.

Michael, I think thats what the ESPY's are for....hahahahah.....
ESPHeww!!! Somebody light a match in here.

PigPen Kruk and Steve "The Albino" Phillips. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Doof!

Get a Clue!

Michael Pastore,

I agree that your method would be much better for choosing the WS MVP! Let the participants decide who on the winning team was the most valuable.

However, I would not like to see the current MVP awards for the regular season eliminated. We should not give up any means of recognition for excellence over a grueling 162-game season, a much different thing than being wonderful for a week.

I mean I could be wonderful for a week (well, maybe not at baseball), but for half a year??? Maybe not so much... ;-)

The object of the regular season MVP is not to award the player who singlehandedly brought his team to the World Series (if there was such a player to begin with). That's not what the award is for. The MVP is for the player who helped their team the most during the regular season no matter what the outcome -- someone who stands out among the rest of the players in all of baseball. If you award MVP only to a player on a WS contending team, then you place too much emphasis on the WS -- which takes something away from the regular season as though it's not as important. There's an MVP for the regular season and an MVP for the WS and they must not be confused and one has nothing at all to do with the other.

Exclamation point!
Well written, Anemone.

Time to make the doughnuts. Good night, fellow Yankee fans!

And Sully the Seamonster too!

Diane,

You just don't get it yet do you? Let me guess you are a Yankees fan from around 96 and up correct? You and McCarthy sound like a spoiled Yankees fans that could not possibly have been fans in the 80's because there weren't enough superstars on the team. What was your thoughts on Pay-Rod 3 weeks ago when he opted out? I am sure you were bashing him left and right. Now he walks on water because he is back correct? Your arguements hold no weight at all. How was A-Rod a different player this year? That to me is laughable. Oh yeah different by creating that mess in Toronto with that pop fly. That negative force stayed with the team for a few days didn't it? I can't even argue because if you don't see it now you never will. A-Rod opted out to get more MONEY. He does not care for the pinstripes and never will. Now you can argue most players care for money but most players if not all do not opt out in Game 4 of the World Series, fall off the face of the earth for 3 weeks, does not return phone calls to owners,teammates etc shall I go on? Oh yeah and best of all crawl back like a sucker because his plan of getting 300 million plus backfired. Now he comes here at a discount. 275 million wow what a discount. How nice of him. If his production is so vauleable where was the teams that needed his services. How come nobody picked him up? Where was Boston? Angels? Mets? Cubs? How come everybody passed on his services if he is needed that bad? Boston fans rather see Lowell than 50 homers and 150 rbi's. Doesn't that send clueless Yankees fans a message? When you chant don't sign A-Rod?Everybody else in baseball gets it but I guess the Yankees just don't.

did we overpay so far?

(in order of signing)

1) abreu - hard to tell, we need to wait for rowand, kones and hunter to sign before knowing for sure, but 16 mil, is quite steep. having said that - it was an option inherited from philly in the trade so no negotiations were involved + it's only one year.
bottom line - good move, above market value probably

2) posada - the one case where we can assume with a high degree of confidence that had he gone full throttle to the FA market he would have received something similar if not superior (look at the mets salivating for a catcher...)
bottom line - great move, equal to market value

3) a-rod - the classic. we don't know what would the angels, dodgers et al have put on the plate during crunch time, but i hazard a guess that per year it could have been similar to 27 mil. length of contract i doubt would have been even close to similar, probably 7-8 years tops.
however, laugh all you will at boras' IPN index, a-rod has substantial added value, especially as he nears the record, then 800 HRs and quite possibly 900. i personally believe that the gods of baseball intend for the HR record to be held in yankee hands, it's the hallowed record of american sports and should be in possession of a guy wearing the hat & uniform of the most storied franchise in american sports - and order will be restored to the universe...
bottom line - solid fiscal move, total value above market.

4) mo - here the yankees clearly overpaid the market, facing no competition but themselves, much like the giambi situation, bidding against ourselves. i find it impossible to believe that any team would done both: exceed 2 years + pay around 12 per year, and many teams wouldn't have done either.
i also believe i didn't serve the yanks interest to send the RP market into a spiral as they we need to sign at least to of those.
bottom line - i suspect that this will be the move that backfires on the yankees. above and beyond market level.

Michael Pastore,
Take A-Rod off the Yankees in 2007 and they don't even sniff the playoffs. To me, that's the telling argument for him winning the award. If you think about how many games he won or how many times he (and Posada) were the only two doing anything on offense, and look at the production from him and you can't say he wasn't the most valuable assest on his team.

I never liked the idea that the playoffs didn't count in the voting, but I understand why that is considering they separate the awards so I think it's justified.

I would understand your angst more if the Yanks finished in last place because then you could say "what the heck did this guy's production do for them?".

so your telling me that JD drew should have received some votes???

What?

AJ,

Wow, your worthless. If your going to bash me at least come up with something besides attacking how long you think I have been a Yankee fan. I get it AJ, you hate A-Rod. You have made that point very clear.

You are right on one thing, i was bashing A-Rod after he Opted out. But I think the timing of the opt out was orchestrated mainly by Boras. The fact he pushed Boras aside and brought in outside people to help negotiate with the Yanks made it ok in my eyes for the Yanks to go back and try and sign him. It is easy to bash A-Rod since he is always in the spotlight but he was a different man this year. He shut his mouth and let his bat do the talking. He was also a major influence on a lot of our young players like Cano, Duncan and Melky. You apparently did not read my post reminding you that he was named the most clutch hitter in baseball for this year either. If that is not evidence enough that he was not the same A-Rod we say the first few years then I can not help you understand anymore.

And FYI....I have been watching, listening and going to most of the Yankee games since the mid 80's. I have also had the pleasure of seeing Donnie baseballs final game at the stadium as well as game 6 of the 96 world series from the bleachers.

McCarthy,
You lucky SOB! I've been to 3 Yankees WS games but sadly, I've never been to a clinching game, except for 2003 when I had to watch the Marlins celebrate their win at the stadium....I hated that!

Jim A.
It is just my feeling. There is nobody MORE VALUABLE than MVP voted by the Players & Coaches of the teams in the World Series. Those are the Leagues MVPs.
My opinion now with the Hank AAron award for best hitter you have more than enough regular season awards. The MVP award should be something different, it should be special.
That is why sports writers should not vote for the award it should be voted by the team. Sports writers do not understand the intangibles only the teams know.
My feeling it should be based on 3 things
1. Team makes it to the World Series
2. Statistics
3. Leadership (A-Rod totaly lacks)

Yeah i guess seeing another team clinch would be a pretty horrible sight. I was on the phone for about 6 hours redialing to get tickets to the world series in 96. All I could get were bleacher seats for game 6. That obviously worked out better than I expected. A Braves fan got stabbed in front of me and I was soaked in beer from head to toe.

That may have also been on of the last games they ever sold beer in the bleachers, but i'am not positive on that.

AJ,

I guess I really hit a nerve somehow, since you are flailing wildly without addressing anything that I actually said.

Warning -- here's one of those triumphalist Yankee-fan thoughts that I can't help having once in a while, in spite of the revulsion experienced by our friends who root for other teams, so scroll on by if you hate these things:

Of the nine players who have been named MVP three or more times, four were Yankees (Joe D, Mickey, Yogi, Alex).

Cue trumpets.

And on the continual Yankee soundtrack,

Fade trumpets...

cue Enter Sandman.

ruseCA used to do such good soundtracks for us...

Diane
Joe D, Mickey & Yogi all won multiple World Series, A-Rod none.
Joe D. & Yogi were major leaders on their team.
Mick was not a leader off the field, he was a drunk (no offense), but he was an emotional leader on the field, by playing through injuries to his legs. Mick lacked the leadership abilities I feel that is important to MVPs but if you actualy read books by players on the Yankees in the 50s & 60s they say he was a leader.
A-Rod has none of those qualities he has the GREAT STATS!!!!BUT HE IS NOT A WINNER OR A LEADER!!!
For me you need all 3 qualities to be a true MVP.
A-Rod could be that but he is TOO SELFISH!!!! & ACTS LIKE A SPOILED TEEN!!!!!

i did not think peyton manning would ever come through in the clutch to win a super bowl

then he did

then everyone had to shutup

I'm very confused. I know the Yanks haven't won the WS in a while, but some of us here are acting like we've finished 20 games under (which is 61-101, right, Roy???) every year we've had A-Rod. The playoffs are an extremely different animal and the smallest thing, whether it be one bad call (Red Sox/Cleve), one call that could have gone either way (Roberts steals second base), or a few bizillion gnats (no explanation necessary), could change not only the reflection of a game, but the outcome of a series. And it could make one team hot, which as we all know, plays a huge factor in a short series. Let's not forget the Yankees won 94 games this year, and did so whilst using such high profile pitchers in April and May like Wright, Karstens, Igawa, and Rasner. Having a similar lineup this year will not hurt them, as long as we get solid pitching all the way around. I'm not too keen on three rooks in the starting rotation, but they should develop into solid to superstars over the next few years. Remember, Greg Maddux had a horrid first two years of his career - albeit on not too good teams - but he turned out OK. So let's give a few of them the chance they need to grow, and stop acting like signing A-Rod was the worst thing that could happen. It keeps Cano at second, gives us a great RH'd bat, and puts the scare factor into the lineup - at least from April through September.

And oh by the way, why do we keep giving Jeter a free pass??? He's as much to blame for another early playoff debacle as is A-Rod, Wang or anyone else. Perhaps more so. What'd he hit into - nine double plays in the 4th game alone???

Michael Pastore,

In my view you are correct about the gauche and immature personality of Rodriguez. I think he WAS a spoiled teen (like many talented athletes today). Remember the brain continues to develop until we are 25, and it is not until then that we are assumed to be fully equipped. Some guys take up to an extra decade to completely deploy the full array of cranial equipment, and Alex looks like he might be one of those.

Luckily it didn't affect his swing most days.

M. Pastore,
So what you are saying is basically what the Anonymous said earlier, which confused me but I think I get it now, he said "so you think J.D. Drew should have won the MVP?" I thought he was talking to me but I think he/she meant you. So by using your logic, J.D. should have been the MVP or are you saying do away with the MVP award altogether? If you are saying they should do away with the award completely, I guess I get the point you're trying to make but if not, then Drew should have won the MVP and we know he didn't do a thing to help Boston get to the WS, even though he helped when they got to the playoffs.

Also, saying A-Rod is not a leader couldn't be more wrong. Did you attend many games this year? I think if you did and you watched him closely you would have seen him coaching, counseling, supporting and LEADING the young players on the team. I thought like you did before watching those games but I came away from them extremely impressed by him as he literally put his arm around young kids who had failed and would constantly talk to them and reassure them during tough innings. Two guys really impressed me with their leadership skills during the games I saw last season and I've told the stories on here before so I won't get into again but you'd be surprised by the names:
A-Rod and Giambi. A-Rod doing it on the field and Giambi teaching a young guy (Cano) that he has the power to make a kid's day by acknowledging them.

bosstrots2219
In previous statements I stated the MVP is a flawed award & it should be only given to a player on the World Series Teams & it should be voted by the Players & Coaches of those teams nobody else. We have enough regular season awards & I feel the MVPs should be special.

Someone made a great post and had an excellent point last week. I don't remember all the examples, but it went to the heart of some of the arguments on A-Rod not being a leader. The one thing that stood out was the statement that while Edwar Ramirez was in the midst of a horrible outing, there was A-Rod on the mound, arm around the kid's shoulders...while Jeter was standing at short staring at the dirt.

There were a few other points, but this one stood out the most - at least to me. But most people have their minds made up about the guy, and nothing could change them.

Bosstrots,

Good article in the NYTimes today about how how human beings everywhere give people who have a history of earning their trust 4 or 5 passes for every 1 that they give to other people who have not made it into that inner circle.

The article is about psychology not about sports but I made the connection to Jeter right away. NYY fans have for at least the second half of his career to date seen Jeter as someone who had already earned a degree of trust and was part of their baseball family.

Rodriguez came in as an outsider and since he arrived has alternated great years with not-so-great years. And of course he arrived with the name of having proven an untrustworthy friend to one of ours.

If NYY fans have cut trusted Yankee lifers like Jeter, Rivera, and Posada four or five breaks for every one they've cut Rodriguez, they are simply 'people being people'.

It would seem that Rodriguez came close during the '07 season to making it into that circle. It will be interesting to see how his post-season antics affect that. Will the opt-out put him back to square one? Or will the chastened return bring him closer?

There's always something to think about in Yankee Universe.

Diane,
Don't get me wrong - I love Jeter and am very thankful that we've had the opportunity to witness one of the overall greats of the game. But I'm a realist and have the tendency to accept change and forgive more than some others, and while I am upset about our "drought", I believe the Yankees are a better team with A-Rod than without, and our best chance of winning is with him. Just give me a very solid 1-5 and someone as a setup man whose last name is not Farnsworth. Although impossible to prove, I firmly believe that if the Sox had A-Rod vice Lowell, they still would have won the WS. Their playoff pitching was solid, but not always spectacular.

Jim A.
I moved to Florida 8 Years ago. But I do get the MLB package on my dish. When I lived in New York I was at the Stadium at least 20 times a year since the Stadium opened in 1976 and watched them quite a few times while they were playing in Shea in 1974 & 1975. My father was a Yankee fan but he said it was sad to see the old Stadium for him in the early 70s so I never got to see it.
Saying all that I can honestly say that I feel A-Rod is a phoney. He only cares about himself & his image. He might of helped the kids but in actuality his also hurt them by his example on the way he conducted himself off the field. A-Rod thinks he invented baseball. Another great statistic player for the Yankees was Henderson but he was not a leader, but he was a winner on the As and produced in the big spots.
Give me a team full of Paul Oneil type of players any day.

welcome back diane. hopefully this new blog format will help prevent some over-the-line formats.

bosstrots
He was not loved in Seattle either. His problem is that in A-Rods order of importance its:
1. A-Rod
2. A-Rod
3. A-Rod
4. A-Rod
5. A-Rod
Even during the negotiations with the Yankees it was how his IMAGE was tarnished!!! Is that what you want to teach your young players.

Even if Arod hits .600 in the post season, they could still lose if everyone else doesn't contribute. You need everyone to pitch in to have a championship team.

DiMaggio had some terrible WS, and the teams still won.

Mantle didn't even play in the 61 WS and they still won.

Munson had an incredible WS in 76 and they got swept.

Check the stats and check history. If the Yankees win the WS its because the team won, not because of ARod.

And if they lose it's because the team lost and not because of Arod.

Michael Pastore:

There are no more Paul O'Neill types left in the league - maybe 1 or 2 but certainly not enough to build a team out of.

Gil L:

Asking if the Yankees overpaid is a little moot. Ticket prices are never going to go down, and so keeping that in mind I would far rather see the team pour the money they make back into the product on the field than lining their own pockets with it.

AJ:
I agree with McCarthy, you really are worthless. I've been sitting here quietly reading your rants against A-Rod and against the fans who root for him for a while now and the bottom line, the thing you're not getting is that the Yankees with A-Rod are so vastly superior than they would be without him that it isn't even close. Consider that when he opted out the team was stuck either trading for a broken down Joe Crede, a suspect Scott Rolen, overpaying for a poor fitting Mike Lowell or trading the team's top prospects for a fat, lazy, Miguel Cabrera. Alex gives the Yankees better offensive production than Cabrera with defense that is fast approaching Lowell level.

You want to blame him for the post season failures, I say you're nuts. Unless I was hit over the head and can't remember correctly, I would say that I have never once seen Alex Rodriguez pitch a game and that is where the Yankees have failed in the last few years in the post season. Whether it was having to run Kevin Brown and Javy Vazquez out in Game 7 in 04, a broken down Randy Johnson against the Angels in 05, Mike Mussina, Jaret Wright, and Corey Lidle in '06 or CM Wang just having nothing in the two games he pitched this year.

Bosstrots,

I agree with you in believing that NYY is a stronger team with AR's bat than without it.

Jim A.,

I believe in adult development. AR may be turning into a nurturing adult. Sometimes this development is facilitated by becoming a parent in real life. It would not be unusual for AR to generalize his ability to protect and nurture young life to the younger players around him.

No one is frozen in time as long as they keep having life-changing experiences of one kind or another.

Those who are so indignant that Jeter does not yet play a fatherly role, keep watching.

Kat, thanks, and I think you may be right -- the civility level does seem to have risen.

Michael Pastore:

Don't kid yourself, all players are concerned with their image, even guys like Bonds who say they don't care what anyone thinks, care deeply about what people think. Baseball, all sports, are big businesses and beyond the contracts that they sign are endorsement deals, endorsements that are based on what the public thinks of your image.

I understand the problem with Alex, I really do, that he comes off as being all about me. But is that really the case?

When he came to the Yankees he was the best short stop in baseball. Had a chance to go down in history as the best short stop in the history of the game. When the Yankees said that to come to the team he was going to have to move to 3B if he was truly all about himself he would have balked, he would have said, "forget it, I'm a Short Stop and my stats as a short stop are much better than if I'm compared to third basemen - no deal."

He has never shied away from reporters when it comes to fielding questions about his failures. He has helped teach young players how to carry themselves as major leaguers.

What, exactly, has he done that is so selfish? That he wants to get paid? Doesn't every player want that?

Michael Pastore:

Don't kid yourself, all players are concerned with their image, even guys like Bonds who say they don't care what anyone thinks, care deeply about what people think. Baseball, all sports, are big businesses and beyond the contracts that they sign are endorsement deals, endorsements that are based on what the public thinks of your image.

I understand the problem with Alex, I really do, that he comes off as being all about me. But is that really the case?

When he came to the Yankees he was the best short stop in baseball. Had a chance to go down in history as the best short stop in the history of the game. When the Yankees said that to come to the team he was going to have to move to 3B if he was truly all about himself he would have balked, he would have said, "forget it, I'm a Short Stop and my stats as a short stop are much better than if I'm compared to third basemen - no deal."

He has never shied away from reporters when it comes to fielding questions about his failures. He has helped teach young players how to carry themselves as major leaguers.

What, exactly, has he done that is so selfish? That he wants to get paid? Doesn't every player want that?

According to a Yankees official, who asked not to be identified because he is not directly involved in the decision, the Yankees have inquired about Chicago White Sox closer Bobby Jenks to set up Rivera.

As if Jeter doesn't care about his image....that's laughable. Jeter happened to be A PART of some great Yankees teams, he didn't win the WS single handedly, he had the benefit of great pitching, defense etc. If the situation were reversed and A-Rod was the home grown guy and Jeter the outsider, we'd still be debating this, but you'd have to switch the names.

Diane: You are probably right, having a kid changes a person dramatically and maybe it has done some good for A-Rod.

cs07
Absolutlely correct on those statements but A-Rod has never produced. That is the big difference.

Chip
That was the only way he would have gotten out of Texas. Nobody else was going to pick up that contract. & do not kid yourself if any other team but the Yankees was stupid enough to pay him that type of money he would be gone. Boras & A-Rod lost. But the Yankees were still were stupid enough to resign them.

On PAPER A-ROD MAKES THE YANKEES BETTER, BUT HE DOES NOT MAKE THEM A BETTER TEAM. TEAMS WIN.

Doug,

Wouldn't be a bad pickup. Not sure what Kenny Williams would want for Jenks but it would probably be a lot. He has Jenks under control for no money for a couple of more years yet.

A couple of names for potential set up guys:

Kerry Wood FA
Mark Prior FA (soon anyway)
Humberto Sanchez - Yankee prospect
Freddy Garcia FA - I would sign him as insurance in case Andy doesn't return and if he does, use him out of the pen in this role.
Damaso Marte or Solomon Torres (Pitt)
Zach Grienke (KC) (actually a great trade would be Grienke and David DeJesus for Jeff Marquez, Brett Gardner, and Zach McCallister)

Chip
The yankees should let their minor leaguers be set up men. Umberto Sanchez & the other 2 kids that are already reivers should be brought up and into the Yankee Bullpen

I'd like to see Kerry Wood come to NY and have some success, that would be awesome.

Michael Pastore:

The better team wins in the regular season, the hotter team wins in the post season. The Yankees (pre A-Rod) in 2003 were a far better team than the Marlins, and lost. The Mets and Tigers were both better than the Cards in 06 and yet they both lost to St. Louis.

Not only does Alex make the team better on paper but he makes them better on the field too. Unless you believe that none of the runs he scored or drove in had anything to do with the Yankees making the playoffs? I can't fathom how having a guy on the team who led the league in HR, RBI, and runs scored, while playing solid defense, HURTS the team?

Sanchez will probably start in the minors given that he missed all of last season with Tommy John surgery.

Wood and Prior would both be interesting since neither one of them should be starters anymore. Though I've heard from more than one outlet that Wood wants to return to the Cubbies.

Again, I wouldn't invest too much in the pen, it never seems to work out as well as you would like. The Yankees have a lot of pitchers who probably won't be in the rotation (Karstens, Rasner, Clippard, Wright, Mussina, Ohlendorf, Jackson, White, DeSalvo, Veras, Ramirez) I would think maybe 1 or 2 of them might turn out to be pretty good relief pitchers for the back of the pen.

Chip
You are probably right on Sanchez but if he is OK in training camp I would like to see him in the bullpen. The other you mentioned have been the problem with the Yankees lately we do not have the right set up men for Rivera. Rivera is a 1 inning releiver most of his problems start when he pitches more than 1 inning.
A-Rods #s are fantastic but for me that is not the issue. I feel he is a bigger problem than Jackson was with the 70s Yankees. The one difference Jackson produced in the playoffs.
I am a huge Islander Fan. It devastated me when they lost to Oilers. With that said I followed hockey and if you look at the early Oilers Stanley Cup Teams the MVP was not Gretzkey , it was Messiere. Gretzkey never went past his own blue line toi help the defence. Gretzkey was the great one but the true MVP was Messiere. He proved it by winning without Gretzkey twice Gretzkey never won with the Kings even though they had a great team.

Only FA reliever the Yanks should consider is Ron Mahay. He is a lefty who has had great success against lefties. The Yanks really need a good lefty out of the pen and haven't had one since Stanton/Lloyd. All the other spots can be filled by what we already have. This guy should get a look.

seems the only people finding fault with the mvp are the a-rod bashers. hey folks the guy carried the yankees this year and is the best player in baseball...funny how a guy can go all out on every play and works his ass off gets ripped and you have a guy like manny who quit on his team in 06...doesn't hustle...can't field... and has asked to be traded after every year he has been in boston and wouldn't pee on a sox fans head if his hair was on fire gets a free pass with the fans and in the boston media