On the Yankees beat

In all honesty, I don't think it really matters that much if Torre or Mattingly manages this team.

If the Yanks build up their rotation with the young guns with Wang and Pettitte, they will be much more likely to win some hardware.

These type of "stories" are sometimes started to "stampede" a board into making a choice other than the 1 initially considered a "done deal". This is what comes with a "corporate" structure. In the old days, George would have just picked up the phone, called Mattingly, and said "What gives"?

This whole manager mess is about the same as getting to vote for Guliani or Hillary. Let's start looking for some REAL candidates!

Let me get this straight:

They said Torre is gone if he doesn't advance.

Torre didn't advance.

Mattingly has no managerial experience...
Girardi has managerial experience...

They are hesitating to hire Mattingly because he has no managerial experience.

Explain to me why the choice then isn't Girardi?

I have vacillated somewhat on the manager situation. I admit it but Viper is correct. You build the rotation and the bullpen to first level quality and tweak the dominant lefty lineup to reflect playing 1/2 of your games away from Yankee Stadium with the return of Arod and some calrity with the matsui and Giambi issue. I could manage the Yankees with Rick Keyes as my bench coach or switch the roles. I don't care.

And I guarantee one of us will be up past 10:00 PM on night games.

Joe is not perfect nor will anybody else who takes his job over. So, make the guy an offer and move with the next situation. He's obviously a player favorite.

Why is everyone acting as if there is some sort of urgency to this?

Torre is under contract until Nov. 1 anyway - I would far rather that the Yankees do what they are doing, which is taking time to cool off from an embarrassing playoff showing, get their facts in order, sit down and discuss this rationally than act in the heat of the moment and make, possibly, a bad decision.

Rick - the candidates are Torre, Girardi, or Mattingly - there is no fourth horse to back.

Sully,

It would appear as though George is more a figurehead than a decision maker at this point. So his quote may not have the weight of authority behind it.

I believe it comes down to a few factors:

1. If Mattingly is not ready to manage and Torre will take a 2 year deal worth far less than he currently is making ($7mil per season) he will return and then Mattingly will take over.

2. If Mattingly is not ready and Torre will not return under the conditions above, Girardi will be the manager - but they do not necessarily just want to hire Girardi to groom Mattingly

3. If Mattingly is ready, and everyone decides that it is time to move on - Mattingly is manager.

Larry - if I thought the players cared enough about the manager to stay with the Yankees purely because of him, then I would agree with you. Point is I don't think that any of these players chirping right now would care who the manager is so long as they get paid - and even if that weren't the case, I don't reckon they would have an issue with Mattingly or Girardi.

Hey Sully,

Steinbrenner was the one that put Torre's head on the chopping block. The fact he did not announce Torre would not be offered a new contract after they lost to the Tribe tells me he was ranting more than anything, and that the rest of the Yankee front office probably cringed that the old man is losing it. Every time I read something about Steinbrenner, I read about how the family and front office try to manage his dealings with the media, they walk him to cars, they are very careful not to leave him alone with writers. He doesn't even issue as many press releases through Howie as he used to.

Clearly, he is not the Boss of old. He probably doesn't even remember talking to that reporter from NJ.

I think they'll take Toree back, maybe for two years for around $10 million.

Girardi? I read that one Yankee suit described him as "making Buck Showalter look like Walter Alston."

If Joba and Hughes are the real deal, then that's what will get you past the first round in the playoffs, not a managerial change.

Sully,

Giradi may look good on paper but something is keeping the Yankee's from pulling the pin.

You don't fire your mgr. for minor differences of opinion. Giradi must have a pretty good temper.

CHIP-
Correction. This is the 4th embarassing playoff showing in a row. The "rudderless ship" is now just "circling". Torre's record, and the applicants resumes are all there. The information is all there. This is your typical "corporate" MO. Decision by indecision. Get used to it.

Sully

Exactly, it's because they are a "rudderless" ship that is just floating "adrift". Just like Roy and I have said. We need some LEADERSHIP.

Chip: I do believe the money will talk where Mo and Posada end up if its weighted heavily toward a new club without Torre as mgr. But, Posada,Mo, Jeter and Pettitte do care deeply for this man.

As I said before, he's not purfect.

Chip

That's my point. WHY CAN'T there be other candidates???? Why is it limited to JT, Mattingly, and Girardi?

It is rumored the Yankee Meeting just called for a "recess". Seems that Hal wanted a Baby Ruth candy bar.

Why the hell is Lopez at the meeting? What does he do? Other than, you know.....

Every business and especially sports teams needs a single strong leader. Like they say, there has to be some place or person "where the buck stops here". It's called accountability.

You now have many unqualified people "running" this organization who are merely "eyeballing" their inhertance, and each other.

They haven't been to the WS in four years because their starting pitching has been terrible.

If you throw a younger and healthy Clemens, Cone, Pettitte, El Duque or Wells every night, they are going to fare much better than an older Pettitte, an unhealthy Clemens, Moose, Big Unit, Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez, and Wang.

It's not a coincidence that the Yanks have lacked postseason success since their starting rotation took a sharp decline.

Stack the rotation with the young arms with Pettitte and Wang and this team will be far better suited in the postseason as soon as next year.

crosetti, Lopez is at the meeting because this is a family business and this family business is one in which adult males are expected to take part. He used to be a contractor and has been eased into a role in the family business over the last several years since marrying into the family, primarily dealing with stuff that a contractor might know about. Get used to it. Or buy the team and turn it into some other kind of business.

CROSETTI-
Lopez may be the only guy on that Board that actually has a "job function".

Okay, I will buy the team. Let me go to the ATM and withdraw a billion and a half or so.

Yea, that's exactly what an Executive Board needs, one member who is a "contractor".

Are there any more Steinbrenner daughters that are single?

Roy - What makes Hank and Hal any less qualified to run the Yankees than their father was when he bought them 30 years ago?

Rick - I personally wouldn't mind seeing someone come in from outside the organization, but I can't tell you that there's anyone out there better than the three the Yankees are looking at

Crosetti - the one that was married to Steve Swindal is now available again.

Look, there are a lot of people at this meeting of the minds I'll admit that - but the ones whose input will lead to the final decisions are:

Cashman
Stick Michael
Damon Oppenheimer
Randy Levine
Hank and Hal

and that makes sense - Stick is the sage old voice - Oppenheimer can tell you what the organization has in the minors, Cashman evaluates the major league roster, Levine is the business guy and Hank and Hal sign the checks.

I responded in an earlier thread that discussing whether George was qualified 30 yrs ago is "pointless". Bring on Mark Cuban. He would run this organization with the "zeal" George had once upon a time.

If the other owners won't approve of Cuban buying the Cubs, they won't approve of him buying the Yankees.

A) There is no way the Steinbrenners are selling the Yankees

B) Even if they wanted to there is even less of a chance that MLB and Bud Selig would approve the sale of the Yankees to Cuban - Yes Baseball does have a say in it and as Bud has proven he is not going to approve an owner who is not in lock step with his ideals about curbing spending. Arte Moreno was an exception based on race.

Hank and Hal are the only votes that count now. They are the heirs, they are the money, they are the present and future. It's that simple in this "corporate" structure.

And what they are doing is smart - they are soliciting advice from the people who they pay to evaluate these things. Why have GM's or scouts or finance advisers if you aren't going to use them?

Bud has already announced he is going to "step down". When it comes to "money", minds frequently change

Roy

I'm pretty sure it's fantasy but I agree Mark Cuban would be EXCELLENT for us.

I wish Selig wasn't such a fascist.

Roy,
Give us some evidence as to how you feel Hank and Hal are so unqualified. Have you talked to them and have they not past your stringent battery of tests? My guess is you've never heard a word from either of them yet you deem them inept so you need to provide some facts. The facts are that both of them have been working in the other part of the family's businesses with some success (Hotels and Horse Racing) so tell us where the college of baseball ownership is so we can see if Hank, Hal and even George have their degrees from there.

Torre will get his job back. There's nobody out there that can effectively replace him (at least until some of the vets on the team get kicked to the curb ... like Giambi, Pettite, Mo, Posada) ... give JT a 2 yr. deal (keep Donnie as bench coach) and by that time Mo, Jorge will be on last legs ... Damon, Giambi + Abreu will be gone and the kids will be all over the make-up of this team (Joba, Hughes, Melky, Cano, Ohlendorf, Sanchez, Kennedy) w/ the help of vets like Jeter, Arod (hopefully), Wang and Matsui. Then a new manager (likely Mattingly) can lead that group along w/ a couple of free agent acquisitions a year or 2 from now (Joe Nathan?, Santana? Jason Bay? Sabbathia? Sheets? Fielder?) ... the young pitching is key ... everything will blossom from there

Jim - Good one. Roy's got a little Chicken Little in him.

Phucker - it's really moot. The Steinbrenners would have to be nuts to consider selling their stake in the Yankees. From what I gather, one of them will run the team while the other focuses on the new stadium and the other corporate aspects - it's a really good division of resources.

For what it is worth there is some thought that the sons already have decided what they are going to do re: Joe Torre - to further that thought - Joe Girardi canceled his scheduled radio spot with Michael Kay on ESPN Radio leading to speculation that he has been given a nod and asked to stay quiet until an announcement is made.

Chip

I hope youre right.

I still worry though, that when "Dad" is gone they may not feel obligated to hang on to the team, or worse, will not share their fathers insatiable appetite for championships etc.

From what I've heard and read George had been trying for years unsuccessfully to get them more involved but they showed little interest.

Maybe now that George's health is in peril they may have had a change of heart?

I hope so.

It's like the in the Godfather. Michael didn't become involved until his father was almost killed.

JIM A-
If you were hiring someone to "run" the Yankees, would you hire someone affiliated with "hotels and horse racing"? Come on now. George has been trying to "groom" Hank since the early 80's, and Hank has shown no interest what so ever. Why else would George have made a son-in-law, the "next in line"? Now that George is in "decline", the Steinbrenner Boys are suddenly interested in running this team. This is all about the inheritance, and this team will be sold once George is no longer around.

Roy,

It's tough to say. Maybe they're more involved now because George is allowing them to make decisions and allowing those decisions to stick.

Phucker - The sons weren't involved because they believed that Swindal was the Golden Boy who had been tabbed to take over the Yankees from the get go. And they were right. But once he was out of the picture the sons stepped up.

The original plan was for Swindal to take over the Yankees, Hank to run the horse racing, Hal to run the real estate and the other son in law to run some of the other ventures - Now the two brothers will split the Yankees with one dealing with on the field operations and Hal doing the off the field Yankee ventures. From what I've heard Hank is just as win crazy as his Pops, which is why he was running the racing ventures.

And overall they all know the same thing that we know, The Yankees are a cash machine. You put $1 in you get $2 back.

Roy -

I don't know either Steinbrenner son personally so maybe you are right that they don't necessarily care about the Yankees - I don't subscribe to that train of thought - and even if I did, they would have to be the dumbest two business men in history to sell the Yankees. The New York Yankees are a cash cow - for every dollar they spend on the team they get two back - especially with the new stadium on the horizon.

CHIP-
Once again, George wanted to "groom" Hank since the early 80's. Hank had no interest then till now.

The fact that the Steinbrenner boys have taken the reins of the ballclub may lend some insight as to how sick George actually is. He may be in rapid decline and this is the course of action that must be taken. I think it is probably somewhat like this and George may eventually need 24hr care. This is a very possible scenario. Therefore this meeting is about more than just who stays or who goes. It is about setting the priorities and responsibilities for each individual in the entire organization as George steps aside.

Wow I really hope Girardi gets the job.

I do find it strange that on the day of the "Tampa Summit" that he cancels his gig with Kaymouth..

Fingers crossed.

Roy -

In the early 80's Hank had no interest because he would have operated under his father's shadow for damn near 30 years - whereas he could go and have control of the racing himself and later on Swindal came along and then he was put in the line.

Look, all I am saying to you is that there is absolutely nothing you can say that would suggest the two sons are going to do any damage to the Yankees than their father did in the 80's and early 90s and if the ownership situation is causing you such angst I suggest you find another team to root for.

Me too, Michael PTRS, me too! Got the toes crossed too!

Where are Dick Williams and Whitey Herzog when you need them ?

CHIP-
The Yankee organization has a value of over $1 Billion Dollars. Selling the Yanks would leave Hank and Hal "set" for life, and they would not have the headaches they have "chosen" to avoid thus far. They are merely "following the money".

Mike -

There's so much speculation about George's health who knows what to believe. I don't like the fact that his health (and the pictures some papers have taken of him to try and show his declining health) are as public an issue as it is.

Given that, I would say it is entirely possible that he has some form of Dimentia or Senility associated with lots of people his age. We know he had a stroke a couple of years ago and that probably hasn't helped the issue at all.

That said, this is really nothing all that new. As far back as three years ago we knew that Swindal had more of a voice in the organization and that George was deferring more and more to him and Cashman and Levine in everyday issues.

CHIP-
I love it when people "attempt" to run off those with dissenting opinions. It shows your "position" is weak. By the way, you neglected to give George credit for rebuilding this team in the early to mid 70's after CBS destroyed this great framchise. George had his failures to be sure, but he rebuilt this team, and to him I am forever grateful for that.

Roy -

Hal and Hank were set for life the day they were born. The New York Yankees are not a commodity you sell - It would be like Bill Gates selling off all his shares in Microsoft or Steve Jobs dumping Apple - it makes no sense from any standpoint.

Why don't you hold off your panic and see what happens - cause really, you're just jumping at shadows at this point.

My point you moron is that any owner - George, Hank, Hal, Cuban - whomever - is going to have his ups and downs as is any team. Therefor Hank and Hal, as long as they do the smart thing and continue to surround themselves with smart baseball people, are no more or less qualified to run the team than their father was when he rebuilt them.

CHIP-
As my Father told me many times, "When all else fails, they always resort to the personal attack".

On another note - one that gets me away from Roy's panic mode. If you like looking at signs here is one for why Eiland may be the next pitching coach - When the minor league season ended the Yankees brought Eiland to NY along with the call-ups and he started working with Hughes who proceeded to show vast improvement almost immediately.

Great point, Chip!

Roy,

Not personally attacking you - but your stances are without merit.

1. You have no reason to believe that Hal and Hank don't know what they are doing. As far as I see they are surrounding themselves with the same voices George surrounded himself with.

2. You have no reason to believe they are going to sell the franchise.

3. If you are right and they are a little more detached than their father, that might prove to be a good thing. Instead of all the hot headed things Steinbrenner did in the 70s, 80s and 90s you might have owners who let cooler heads prevail - as they did when the Boss was suspended by baseball and Stick had a chance to build the team that we saw in the late 90s.

Oh, and if you want to uncork paternal quotes, here's one I should have remembered from my dad, "Never argue with an idiot. Invariably they drag you down to their level."

Mets are set to hire texas hitting instructor Rudy Jamarillo as their hitting coach. They're doing this for two reasons: 1. He's very good at his job. 2. Alex Rodriguez has two father figures in baseball Lou Pinella and Jamarillo.

The speculation is that Jamarillo could help give the Mets a slight edge in signing Alex if the money is about even with what is offered by another team. If so, Alex would play third and David Wright would move to the Outfield.

LOL

Chip

They get Alex-THEY MUST TRADE FOR SANTANA!!

Alex goes back to short and Reyes gets a warmer winter coat nomsayin..

BTW

You broached the Miguel Cabrera topic yet didn't opine yourself...(Or I may have missed your post)

If Alex leaves what say you re-Miguel?

Phucker -

I'm of a split mind on Cabrera.

On the one hand the guy is one of the four best right handed bats in baseball right now (Pujols, Manny, Alex, Cabrera). That said, he's shown himself lately to be lazy in the field (like Manny) and may be getting too big to play 3b.

That said, he's playing on a terrible team that's not really competing - maybe coming to NY where they have guys on the field (Jeter) and on the coaching staff (Bowa) who won't tolerate him being lazy and where he'll be on a winning team like he was when he first came up will light a spark under him again. I can't answer that.

That said, given his age and the fact that if Alex leaves the Yankees will be desperate for a right handed bat I would probably try to trade for him with a package of Kennedy, Tabata, Juan Miranda and Jeff Marquez for him (and possibly Mike Jacobs.) It's a lot to give up, and if Florida insisted on Hughes/Wang/Cano/Joba/Austin Jackson I would have no qualms about walking away from the table.

I used "that said" way too many times in that last post.

CHip
I agree. No way I give em Wang/Hughes/Joba or Cano.

Alex leaves and they want any of the above for Cabrera then I hope to sign Lowell.

Why is Austin Jackson also on your untouchable list?

Is he a catcher?

Austin's a CF - tremendous combination of speed and power. He'll likely be with the big club sometime this year, starting in CF by 2009 at the latest with Melky moving to a corner.

I don't really want to part with Tabata either, but he's had some trouble staying healthy.

larry M,

Player Fav is moot point right now, they won sh*t lately for this man so it's his own "FAVORITES" that's f**king up the scene.

Obviously we need more than a favorite if so we can hire Barney or Kim Jones

Boss was suspended what a Year? and was still running things even when we thought he was suspended. The theatre stoolie we had covering for the boss was just a breathing statue. Fans cried for the boss return when the team hit last place. and fools like Andy hawkins as your ace

NYY Farm system named 5th Best by Baseball America:

Highest Ranking: No. 1 (1991, 2000).

Lowest Ranking: No. 27 (2004).

State Of The System: The Yankees have done an about-face in the last couple of years, and their farm system has benefited. They have become aggressive rather than passive in the draft under scouting director Damon Oppenheimer, allowing them to sign costly and coveted players such as RHPs Dellin Betances and Joba Chamberlain. They’ve also traded for prospects such as RHPs Humberto Sanchez and Kevin Whelan, rather than giving them away for veterans. The Latin American program remains strong, highlighted by OF Jose Tabata.

Best-Stocked Position: Righthanded starters. Six of the system’s seven best prospects fit this description, starting with the minors’ top pitcher, Philip Hughes, and followed by Sanchez, Betances, Chamberlain, Ian Kennedy and Tyler Clippard. New York also has hopes for George Kontos, Zach McAllister and Tim Norton, part of its 2006 draft crop along with Betances, Chamberlain and Kennedy.

Prepare For Takeoff: LHP Angel Reyes. The Yankees haven’t had much success developing left-handers since signing Andy Pettitte as a draft-and-follow in 1990, but Reyes could change that. He’s not big, but he can touch 94 mph with his fastball and shows signs of developing a plus curveball.

At A Crossroads: 1B/3B Eric Duncan. New York’s third baseman of the future before Alex Rodriguez arrived, Duncan has moved to first base but wasn’t a factor in the spring competition between journeymen Doug Mientkiewicz, Josh Phelps and Andy Phillips. A 2003 first-rounder, Duncan has hit just .235 with 198 strikeouts in 214 games the last two years.

Arod is 32 years old. What does he need a father figure for?

And if Piniella and Jamarillo are those guys, why did he leave Seattle and texas?

CS07 -

A-Rod's a very "young" 32 in that he tends to want to please people - right now that person is Scott Boras.

In any case, I'm with you, he needs to man up and make whatever decision he wants to make not whatever decision someone else thinks he should make.

I have said it countless times I would like Alex to remain with the Yankees but I would also like the Yankees to stick to their guns and not go after him if he opts out - which is why I hope that once the Torre situation is brought to a close they will hammer out a plan b if Alex opts out and move quickly on it to take themselves out of the fray. If that means he winds up in Boston, so be it.

The guy's name is Jaramillo. Har-ah-MEE-oh.

I know.... i haven't posted here in a long time but i figured everyone here would appreciate this. Its depressing, to remember what brought the mighty yankees down... but also kindof amusing.

"OK, you've probably heard too much already about those infamous sacrifice flies of Cleveland, the mighty midges that, unlike almost all AL hitters, knocked Yankees phenom Joba Chamberlain off his game. But this is too good not to pass on: When the bugs started swarming Chamberlain, a local insect expert in Cleveland telephoned the Indians with an urgent message -- those bugs are called midges, and whatever you do, do NOT use insect repellent; midges are attracted to the stuff. The Yankees practically bathed in bug spray; the more Chamberlain put on, the more the bugs swarmed him. So there you go. The Yankees can spend $190 million on payroll and still leave a blatant weakness: no, not their middle relief -- their lack of an entymology expert."

Rick Keyes,

Vote for Ron Paul, the last, best and ONLY chance to save what is left of our once great nation.

If Hillary gets in with her Marxism it will be the end of what we knew as America. You think things are bad now? Just wait ...

As for the manager mess ... WTF? Same old song. With all the money, payroll and equity you would think we would not have a seven year drought.

How to fix?

End the Globalized Team Ethos as a modern quasi Religion.

Find the BEST players ... preferably Chuck, Tino, Scott, Paulie types.

Have a team that is a unit, that can speak the same language(s) and pull together on and off the field, if possible.

Both the Mets and Yanks sand bag the fans with their nutty personnel moves. (They make some good moves too, but usually shoot themselves in the foot with the Politically Correct Teams.)

The name on the front of the jersey is what matters, not the back. Well, the Yanks have no names on the back ...

A lot of our payroll is wasted, I would say a third at least. Mussina, Giambi, Meyers, Farns, Clemens on and on ad neauseum ...

So ... this whole manager mess is kind of sad, because it shows we have no real leadership.

What a disappointment, akin to "I used to get drunk in New Orleans" from The Decider at the height of Katrina while Aunt Tootie was floating face down on what used to be the street.

As go the Yankees, so goes America ... I've said it before ...

Even if Torre, Mo, Jorge and A Rod and Andy Pettitte come back, we are still only the 4th best team in the AL right now.

Yes a lot could change but the other teams just won't stand still. You never know what will happen. Look at the Angels with 100 different lineups and the interchangeable parts. They fell apart like Leggo Toys ...

One last thing ... you know the Molina Brothers? Well maybe there are the Wang brothers ... That would be pretty awesome! Then they could pitch an ENTIRE playoff series and get bombed like Mel Gibson weaving along a Malibu Road.

Anthony,

Like I tell my grandsons when they eat at the grownups table, if you can't understand what the conversation is about, SAVE YOUR BREATH TO COOL YOUR SOUP.

This conversation is about baseball. Not politics, race, ethnicity, or religion.

SYBTCYS!

Larry M,

I am in Tampa, are you nearby? Too bad the season is over ... I would have like to have seen Kazmir pitch ...

I am thinking of writing a book about the Yankees, or making them a chapter in the book ... I know they have their HQ in Tampa ...

Anyway ... just a thought.

Ant

Roy,
Sorry for the late reply to your post but I just got back to my office but think back thirty four years ago and ask yourself if you would have wanted a shipbuilder, worse yet in your opinion, the SON of a shipbuilder to own/run the Yankees? I didn't think so. At least now you have the sons of the owner of the Yankees running the team. These guys grew up with the Yankees as part of the family, they'll be fine.

Figures Ant Hill would be a dried up Republican Neo-con. Time for some changes. Torre to go into retirement. Bush to just go. Time for a woman president - Go Hillary! And one more thing: Drew Rules! Great information on those midges! Thought they were going for Joba because of all the pork fat. The end of America was when "reality television/Jerry Springer" took over. And when all of these elephants/trailer trash hillbillies starting appearing on Springer TV saying"I know I look good! Pathetic losers should just go away and take this unqualified president with you. Time for a Rebirth of a Nation! And our Yankees!