On the Yankees beat

Kat,
I forgot, who is older,Hank or Hal?

Good info, keep it coming and make sure you use sun block out there. I can hear your Irish skin sizzling from here!

Hank is 52 and Hal is 38

Hank is older - he's 50 and Hal is I believe 38

Fat Actress on Joe Torre

[quote]
http://38pitches.com/2007/10/22/rox-and-sox-2007-world-series-its-on/#more-107

A few random observations. The Red Sox in me is happy Joe Torre is no longer in charge in NY. The person in me wonders how does a guy who obviously has the respect and loyalty of his entire roster, a guy who’s taken his team to 12 straight post seasons, a guy who exudes class and respect, how does he, in the midst of what might have been his most challenging and defining season and post season, not only have to manage his team in a best of 5 win or go home series, but also answer a billion questions about being basically told ‘win or you’re out’? How did it come to that? I have never had a chance to get to know Mr Torre beyond handshakes of congratulations or hellos, but I have never heard a player on his team utter anything but respect for the guy. Much like Boston, managing a 175m+ roster of super star players, in that market, with a hack to writer ratio bordering on 100-1, how does he basically win pretty much every year, get to the post season and get an ultimatum at THAT point in the season? I have always thought very highly of Mr Steinbrenner as well, anyone that pours that much of himself into his team, is that dedicated to his teams fans is ok by me and I would think ok by pretty much anyone that plays for him since he never makes issue with paying the huge salaries players make these days but only adds the caveat of “Just win a World Series”. I don’t think players have ever had problems with owners like that.

Then he gets ‘offered’ a pay cut with strings? That sucks. Was very cool to see the mass of Yankee fans at the “keep Joe” rally though. Amazing how that loyalty card plays out in the public eye and through the media when the shoes on the other foot. Managers don’t win ballgames, players do, and I think you’d be surprised to know how bad we feel when managers we care about get fired because we know, if we have one ounce of integrity, that our failures as players are, most times, what gets a manager fired.

Terry Francona is a genius since he arrived in Boston? Having been on his team the first day he managed in the big leagues through today I’ll tell you up front that he is not much different. He does suck much more at cribbage now than he ever did and his fantasy teams continue to suck as well, but as a manager he’s not really different. I think the interim jobs he had in Cleveland and Oakland showed him the inner workings of baseball front offices more and helped him in some areas but in the clubhouse, dugout, and on the field he’s pretty much the same non-jersey wearing guy he was in Philly, he just has a front office comprised entirely of people that understand winning games on the field matters more than anything else. The ‘know it alls’ in Philadelphia, from Conlin to Cataldi to Macnow, aren’t really know it alls are they? Their people who’s life it is, who’s entire job description, revolves around creating news or stories where there is none, to make you think their ‘in’ and you’re not, and if you want to truly know or get smarter, listen to them. Pretty cool when you can be wrong pretty much 90% of the time and still be considered an expert.

Wonder how smart Tito looks to the guys that hacked him in Philly now? 3 post seasons, 2 world series appearances in 4 years here. Nice to know he gets that last laugh.

Starting Wednesday it’s on.[/quote]

Damn, you know we're pathetic when Skirt Schilling is on our side.

Giuliani rooting for Red Sox
[quote]
Giuliani commits baseball blasphemy: He's rooting for Red Sox

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10232007/news/regionalnews/giuliani_commits_baseball_blas.htm

BOSTON --In an act of baseball blasphemy, Yankee die-hard Rudy Giuliani said Tuesday he's pulling for the Boston Red Sox to win the World Series over the Colorado Rockies.

"I'm rooting for the Red Sox," the Republican presidential contender said in response to a question, sparking applause at the Boston restaurant where he was picking up a local endorsement.

"I'm an American League fan, and I go with the American League team, maybe with the exception of the Mets," he said. "Maybe that would be the one time I wouldn't because I'm loyal to New York."

Giuliani's Yankees lost in the first round of the playoffs, then lost their manager when Giuliani's friend, Joe Torre, refused to accept a pay cut and walked away. Giuliani said the Yankees had "a great season."

The former New York City mayor said his declaration of temporary Red Sox loyalty was "not just because I'm here in Massachusetts."

"In Colorado, in the next week or two, you will see, I will have the courage to tell the people of Colorado the same thing, that I am rooting for the Red Sox in the World Series," he said.

Indeed, if Giuliani was pandering, he miscalculated.

In the last presidential election, Colorado went with Republican President Bush, and recent history shows Massachusetts voters would sooner adopt Manhattan clam chowder as the state's official food than vote Republican in 2008.

Of course, just to the north is New Hampshire -- home to many Red Sox fans -- and the nation's first primary.[/quote]

Guilani's Phony and Fraud Yankees Fan...

Why should we hire Joe Girardi ...

1. Maybe he is Italian

2. Degree re: Northwestern so we know he is smart!

3. Cared for his mother when she was ill. I think she had brain cancer. What a good son! A great person. That is all I need to know about him right there.

4. His favorite song is Right Back to Where We Started From by Maxine Nightingale!

Please watch and sing along ... La, la, la ...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=h83fsPHtJN8

Why not hire him? He's a great person, an ex Yank and a former catcher ... he would be just what we need. A younger version Torre who won't abuse the bullpen.

Mattingly no

Pena no

Girardi yes!

...

I am off to go to Ocala to write chapter one of my proposed baseball book ... I will ask George Steinbrenner all kinds of vital questions ... if he won't talk to me ... I will just let him talk with Tricia! No one can resist her looks or charms.

I heard GS has a horse farm or ranch or some kind of horse whisperer thingy up there ... Ocala is supposed to be pretty!

Of course I will probaby get arrested for trespassing ... but you can only try!

I had a chance to review a new book by a complete unknown writer today, his name is Anthony LoBaido and he has "written" a "book" called "Baseball is God and Faith Hill in the jungles of Ecuador".
Well folks, I'm here to tell you that there is a reason you never heard of this author because this book is nothing but nonsense. I believe this person is absolutely off his rocker and not only does he have his priorities completely disorganized, he is not at all interesting. He just blurts out anything and puts it on paper. I am recommending this book to all of those people out there who may one day write a book. I urge you to read this book and to never write anything like this garbage.
You will not find this book in any bookstore. This is very reassuring that publishers at least read some of the material that comes across their desks. A friend sent me a link to it when I asked what she thought was the worst book ever written and she sent me the link: www.antisamoron.com

Ant Colony, Are you off your medication?

Guiliani - Traitor. Period. Yankee fans NEVER, NEVER EVER, ROOT FOR THE BOSOX!!!!
And do not forget that!
Down with the Nation!
Affleck is a toupee wearing girlie man!

Anthony?

Why should we care if these guys are "good people" or not?

Sure, it's a plus if he is a good person but winning ballgames is all I care about.

I don't care if he is Mother Theresa because it's meaningless if he can't help this team win baseball games.

I would never root for the Sox. I will always bleed pinstripes. Especially this year since I grew up in Denver, so GO ROCKIES!!!!

GREAT COMMENT from Mike from New Jersey

Viper,
You are absolutely correct, the next manager can go home beat his wife and kids and kick the dog for all I care - just win us some rings!!!

Someone in my office just asked me to go position by position between this Boston team and the 98 Yankees - it's an interesting debate:

C - Posada vs. Varitek - I say Jorge
1B - Tino vs. Youk - Tino
2B - Knoblauch vs. Pedroia - Pedroia
SS - Jeter vs. Lugo - no contest
3b - Brosius vs. Lowell - Lowell
LF - Curtis vs. Manny - Manny
CF - Bernie vs. Coco - Bernie
RF - O'Neill vs. Drew - Paulie
DH - Chili Davis vs. Papi - Papi
Closer - Mo vs. Paps - MO
Starters:
Cone, Pettitte, Clemens, Wells, El Duque over Beckett, Dice, Schill, Wake, and X

Clemens wasn't on the '98 team. Wells was in the deal that brought the Rocket to NY in 1999.

Nonetheless, the Yanks still have the edge in the rotation.

Chip,
Giving 3 positions to BOSOX does not equal debate. The 98 Yankees were a team for the ages. No debate needed.

Viper - wow that was horrible on my part - sorry.

This year's Boston team against the 98 Yankees?

Don't make me laugh!

Chip,

Tell that person in your office that drugs are not allowed in the workplace and to hide the crackpipe before management comes strolling down the aisle.

That Fat actress you reference is on his way to winning 2 Chamionships in Boston in the last 4 years.

Can anybody you have down there that's come in to play for the Yankees in the past 7 years say that they have done anything like that?

...didn't think so you jealous Yankee fan!

Sox in 4!

It's gonna hurt so good!

Schill,
So your Sox history is 7 years huh? Wonder what fan you were in say 2003? 2002? 2000? The Sox still only have what 3 titles come talk to us when you break 20, nuff said

Wasn't Dave Justice a big part of that "98" team?

I don't mind Sox fans like Sully and Casual on this blog. They both deliver interesting and often correct points with no arrogance. It's the idiots we need to stomp on.

You would have to go back more than 50 years before the 98 Yankees to find a team worthy of comparison, and then it would be another Yankees team.

More than 70 years, actually.

Good point Marianne, and then you're getting to the Yankee team that won 5 in a row!!!

Roy,

The Yanks got Justice in 2000 for Westbrooke.

He was a big part of that team, especially in the LCS against Seattle.

Boston has 6 rings, 5 of them came before the 1919 season.

WAITE-
Thanks

I've said it before. We have been privileged to be Yankees fans during this recently completed era.

If I don't see its like again, I'll still know I've been a lucky baseball fan!

Waite,
So to all the idiot Sox fans - come talk to us when you get those next 15.

Waite,
So to all the idiot Sox fans - come talk to us when you get those next 15. Hell, atleast after you pass the Cards

You're welcome Roy.

Technically, Boston has 7 rings if anyone wants to count the Braves' 1914 championship.

A couple of points to consider. Mattingly was a great player, but has never managed any team at any level.

Girardi's resume is quite impressive. He played for the Yankees and won 3 W.S. with them. He, like Mattingly, has served as a bench coach for the Yankees. And, he was Manager of the Year his first year managing.

Another point to think about. Managers are hired to be fired. If things don't work out well, is Yankee legend Donnie Baseball really the one we want fired with a bad taste in his mouth ala Yogi, Billy and many others??? I think it would be much easier to fire a Girardi in a year or two that it would be Mattingly.

I say go with Girardi and keep Mattingly as bench coach. Make Pena the 3B coach, definitely keep him a Yankee.

That was my post.

That was my post.

Waite,
Again, thanks for being the resaident statistician today, but even counting the Braves they are still 3rd - the Cards have 10 (still 16 back, but decent)

John,

You know what also adds to their hatred of us? Before 1920, Boston was considered the "Dynasty Team" because the won those 5 rings in 16, 17 seasons that the series was played? Also, the players on those Boston teams were all traded to the Yankees along with The babe being sold to the Yankees. After that happened, Boston was a last place team.

Mattingly should be managing in the minors. He needs to prove he really wants the job, and the "seasoning" would make him a better manager when his time comes. Remember, Girardi passed on the O's job, showing just how much he wants to manage the Yanks.

I would suggest reading today's "Daily Scoop" by Jon Heyman on Si.com. Some good behind the scenes stuff on the Torre story.

It starts out: Joe Torre spins a great story. In fact, he's an even better public speaker and broadcaster than in-game strategist.

Thanks for the compliment John, but HYD is the statistician here.

Waite,
To me that wouldn't cause me to hate the other team - it WOULD cause to me to hate my team's ownership. They make the deals that make or break a franchise. The one thing that could always be said about Georgie - he did and spent whatever he felt was necessary to win titles. God bless him for that

Roy - what minor league team did Girardi manage before getting the Marlins' job? That's right - 0. If experience is how this will be determined then Tony Pena will get the job.

In the end I don't think Girardi gets the job because unlike Mattingly and Pena, Girardi actually played with some of the guys still on the team - that could create a strange dynamic for everyone. (Technically Mattingly played with Mo and Jeter, but only for half a year.)

Chip,
The good thing about Girardi having played with some the current players is this: they have won together before (3 rings) anf therefore know Girardi is capable of winning.

All that matters "currently" is Girardi's experience vs Mattingly's. You know the score there.

If I wanted an Icon to manage the Yankees I would hire Jesus Christ at least he would know which pitches are coming

My third Base coach would be Buda

first Base coach would be Muhammed

Pitching COach - Moses

bench Coach would be the Dali Lama (excuse the Spelling)

Bomber-
Have you been having beers with Ant lately? :)

Chip -

he with playing with them he was a teacher.

I would tend to agree with you John. Maybe hatred was the wrong word. Jealousy then?

Chip,

What about guys that were player/managers? Lou Boudreaux was a player/manager for Cleveland in 1948 and they won the series. Also, Mel Ott and Bill Terry were player/managers for the Giants and Terry won the Series in 1933.

I guess that my point is maybe it's not a bad thing with Girardi.

Sorry for these stupid stats today. I don't know what's gotten over me.

Chip,
Remember Luo Pinella managed some of his former teamates in 84-86 and had some success (not enough for Georgie) 179-145

Waite,
See my last post - your stats are contagious!!!

This is bad John (LOL).

If Bomber keeps making posts like that he'll have to change his moniker to "The Reverend Bomber".

Wasn't Torre a player/manager for a short time? I believe it was with the Mets and may have lasted a week or so, I can't remember.

I think all the examples of player/managers are good ones - but the eras were very different than today. I'm just not sure it would work as well today as it would have in the 80's or 40's.

I don't think Girardi is a bad choice mind you, I just think that's the one issue that might skew in favor of Mattingly (along with his obvious popularity).

We all ahve to remmeber, Girardi did win the manager of the year award. His only knock was that poeple said he overused his pitching staff. I think that if he has mroe than 3 brain cells to rub togehter he has learned a valuable lesson in FL (mainly don;t work for the Marlins)

I believe alarm bells went off with the Yankee hierachy when the "Mattingly not ready to manage Yanks" story broke. Mattingly's own rebuttal wasn't a "flat out" denial, and somewhat cryptic. No way H\H gives the highest payroll in baseball to a rookie who really isn't sure he's ready for the challenge. Icon or not.

Girardi didn't have to face the NY media on a daily basis as Mattingly did during the 80s and 90s as the face of the organization.

The experience factor is WAY overrated considering that Girardi has exactly 2 years of coaching/managerial experience and Mattingly had been under Torre for 4 years.

He may have been the hitting instructor for 3 years, but I'm sure he learned a thing or two about managing before he became the bench coach.

No way H\H gives the highest payroll in baseball to a rookie who really isn't sure he's ready for the challenge. Icon or not.

---------------------------------

Given Roy's track record with trades/analysis, you can bet that Donnie Baseball will be the next Yanke skipper.

Roy,

Mattingly's rebuttal was "the story is patently false" you can't get more of a flat out denial than that.

Nope with your stomach doctor Oprah.

How's steadman I heard the Knickers is a little Lite

HOW YOU DOOIIIING ?

Addressing the media as a "player" is entirely different than as a "Mgr". Players frequently just choose to not talk to the media. Mgrs. are "stuck" on a daily basis.

More importantly Roy, as Anon pointesd out - would any of us REALLY want to see the day come when Donnie Baseball is FIRED from the Yanks? Not me! He was and is an icon, let him remain one

Honestly that game 6 triple gave me much more exitement than any game in the 80's

especially the last out top of the ninth.

There's another factor with Girardi that I do believe is going to give the Yankees pause before hiring him (though I'm not sure it should, I can understand why it would) Girardi is a lot like Buck Showalter, and bringing him in to manage might give Alex (who did not like Buck Showalter) another reason to opt out. NOW I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE PLAYERS SHOULD DICTATE WHO THE MANAGER IS but if you have three strong candidates, that could be a determining factor.

Mattingly got into the right "situation" and Torre's status.

An Icon managing in the minors is Okay by me.

Bob Dupey on Mike and the Mad Dog - the Commissioner has been in contact with the Yankees, no announcements will be made regarding their new manager without his permission - that doesn't mean Selig will have a vote, just that the Commish won't let them announce it at a time where it could upstage the World Series.

Even Bud's "gag order" will not stop the news from leaking out.

John, you don't want a situation where Mattingly could be fired, and I admit that is a legit concern. But how about this.

If Girardi or Pena or whomever, is hired and wins, how long will Donnie want to sit on the bench as a coach before getting frustrated and leaving the organization? Remember, when Torre was hired he wasn't looked at as a long term solution, just a caretaker until Willie was ready to manage.

But it's a leaky world...

Who reeally listens to a guy named "bud" to begin with - seriously

But Chip -

Don mattingly is compared to Torre and with that would the team again want a manager who would use the press and players as his defense team? Would Yankee brass want to hire someone who they would be afraid to fire even if the team is playing poorly.

It is a tough call because all three is good but Don and Joe hold special places.

We forget band wagon fans or younger fans know Joe Donnie is an Icon that is always disturbing when problems arise.

if the other was'nt avail then it is case closed.

Yes Griardi managed a weak NL team and made the best out of them he complained to mgmt because they are idiots and cheap. he woudl have to deal with one out of two with the yankees.

Chip,

Didn't Hank say that the Yankees won't make an announcement until after the series anyway? I thought that I read that this past weekend.

What's going on with Paul Byrd and George Mitchell? I haven't been paying attention.

LOL Bomber ;-)

Bomber - I just don't think that you can go into a hiring and say "oh man what are we going to do if we have to fire this guy" If you're already worried about the fall out from firing the guy, then you likely should not be hiring him in the first place.

Waite:

Byrd (and the Indians) are accusing Mitchell of leaking the info about his HGH use intentionally before Game 7 because Mitchell is a paid consultant of the Red Sox and therefor the thought is he leaked the info to distract the Indians before the game to help Boston. He then went on to point out that it is amazing how none of the leaked names have had any affiliation with Boston.

Let me rephrase my point on Icon's

Icon's are delicate subjects. they of course would win the love of the fan base espcially if it's the team they played for.

Honestly I'm comfortable with who ever of the choices. I do believe in MY opinion that Girardi can be the guy I just feel it. we forget that he too was a bench coach so he dealt with these players.

Add to the matter that he is called a SMART baseball man. that should not be ignored

Thanks Chip.

Sounds like dirty pool to me.

There's a great piece by one of the guys at Pinstripe Alley about Joe Girardi's managerial style and tendencies:

http://www.pinstripealley.com/story/2007/10/23/155010/31

It's definitely worth a look because it comes from a Marlins fan's perspective who covers the team.

Bomber, I agree completely that Girardi would be a terrific choice. He's a great baseball man and a very smart one at that.

But, if the idea is that ultimately the Yankees want to make Don Mattingly the manager down the line and that they want to hire someone to serve as a caretaker now, well I don't think that works. Given the youth and revenue heading to this club I see another big run ahead and that could mean that the next manager could be walking into the same situation Joe Torre walked into 12 years ago.

As I said, Torre was hired to keep the seat warm for Willie, unfortunately for Randolph, the Yankees kept winning and Willie kept waiting.

The one thing I will point out aside from the fact that he played with a couple of the guys is whether A-Rod would stay for a guy whose managerial style is similar to Buck Showalter and also Girardi clashed with Miguel Cabrera who would be a viable alternative to Alex - again I don't think the players should hand pick their managers, just something to think about.

I can't wait 'til they hire someone so we can move on to the hot stove season! That will be fun. I can just see the trade proposals that will be floating around this blog :)

I don't think anyone ever accused Don Mattingly of being a dumb baseball man. This guy survived and thrived in NY on some really crappy teams and stood up to the media day in and day out and never made excuses for himself. I fail to see how he has changed in that regard. The man knows the game and if he is the one chosen, I'm cool with it. I'm good with Girardi too I guess. Same for Pena.
Hell, I'd like to stun the world and have the Yanks hire Mike Scocsia (sp?) away from the Angels.

Agreed'd chip.

And Jim that would be a excellant wildcard pic.