On the Yankees beat

You can throw all of those stats out the door on Wang's line, because none of those stas are for Wang on 3 days rest.

He didn't have anything last time out. Why do you think he's going to be any better on 3 days rest?

No #1 starter leadership/killer instinct = end of season tonight

Cleveland's not scared of Wang.

Enjoy your winter!

I see Wang pitching tonight like Pettite did against Atlanta circa 1996. He was awful in the first game he pitched and stellar in the must win second game he pitched. Wang will do the same.

I'm all for Joe summoning Joba for a couple of "pump up the crowd/demoralize the enemy's top of the order/get the Bugs off type strikeouts...BUT JOE T really went overboard.

He could've easily and wisely put in Viscaino for the 8th with a short leash to Mo. This way we'd still have an effective Joba.

I all for taking the training wheels off but 38 pitches!!

We need him tonight and Wednesday-(provided there is a Wednesday)

That was just stupid and best example of Torre's biggest flaw.

JOBA IS NOT A CHINA DOLL BUT HE'S NOT SCOTT PROCTOR EITHER

Shame on Joe...

Didn't Wang have one start this season on 3 days rest and beat Baltimore? I think that he went 7 innings in that game also.

ESPN showed an interesting stat on Wang vs Cleveland. He was 0-2 with an 11+ ERA and against them at Yankee Stadium, he was 2-0 with a 1.9 ERA.

I like the Yankees' chances tonight.

On Wang: by the same token his last start was on 7 days' rest, which also doesn't apply to those stats. Besides, as per yankees.com: "Pitching on such short rest is also sometimes easier for a pitcher like Wang, who relies heavily on a sinker.

"A lot of times, it can work to your advantage," Yankees pitching coach Ron Guidry said. "If you get tired, that's when your sinker really works. So maybe on one less day, he might not be able to throw as hard, but maybe his sinker will move more. But it's a tossup. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You just hope it works [on Monday]."

On Joba: I too was dismayed to see him work that 2nd inning last night. I understand that we needed to win that game at all costs, but with a 5-run lead you also have to start to take tomorrow into account. Hey -- Kyle Farnsworth could have coughed up a run for 3 outs, too.

Michael PTRS, I think the world of you...

But did you SEE Vizcaino the other night?

That 8-3 lead would become an 8-6 lead before you could say Ball Four.

Sully, I think the world of you as well...

And yes.

I would've been anxious having anyone other than Mo/Joba but against the bottom of the Indian order I would've atleast given it a shot and have Mo "UP" ready to come in if a guy got into scoring position.

It's a chance I think I'd take and a chance I believe you have to take when you lose the first 2 games and have any designs on somehow finding a way to come back 0-2 and somehow win 3-2.

The only reliever that can go again is Mo. Joba is going to need a few days because he looked gassed in the 8th. It is going to be Wang and if he gets into trouble, Moose. If the yankees have the lead in the 7th, 8th, look for Vizciano then Fransworth and Mo in the 9th.

At least that's what I think.

Starting Wang on "short rest" is the right move, but I would have a very "quick hook", and have Mussina warmed and ready every time Wang might get into trouble. Having to "stall", to get a relief pitcher ready is inexcusable considering the Yanks are in a "no tomorrow" scenario. Seeing Torre and the Yankee bullpen "scrambling" around last night, when Clemens was "toast", was a total embarrassment. If the Yanks get into an extra innings game tonight, I would even use Pettitte if necessary. There is no reason to save him, or any other pitcher, when there may be no Game 5. The Angels getting "blown out" in the 8th yesterday, with K-ROD on the pine, is a perfect example of this. In a tie game, or a game you are trailing, a mgr. cannot "save" any player, when their is no tomorrow. Even MO should pitch in the 8th, if the game is tied or the Yanks are trailing, and a reliever is needed.

Vizcaino should NEVER pitch in a game that's even remotely close. The guy's complete inability to throw a strike drives me insane, and the Indians will NOT chase bad pitches.

Roy
I agree with you that there is no tomorrow and it's a must win situation. But I'm wondering, If Pettite is used today, who would you star if there is a game 5?

You are right Dave, but what choice do the Yankees have? Joe will go to Vizciano. The only way that I see that not happening is if Cleveland kills Wang, or Wang is brilliant and gets into the 8th with a lead. Then Joe can go right to Mo without the middle guys getting a sniff.

I would think that Pettitte, Chamberlain and Hughes are off limits tonight.

No one should be off limits today, remember that there is no tomorrow. If we lose, they have the complete winter to rest their arms.

ALVARO-
I wait till the following day and look at who has pitched when and for how many innings and how effectively. Basically, you worry about Game 5 "AFTER" winning Game 4. Pettitte would probably be used only in extra innings.
Vizcaino should certainly be brought into a game with nobody on base and a 5 run lead. If a Mgr. is afraid to use a pitcher in the situation I just described, that pitcher shouldn't even be on the team.

Alaro, no one takes Roy seriously. I'm surprised he didn't suggest we start Clemens tonight. Don't waste your time.

Starting Wang is absolutely the right move. He didn't pitch very long in the opener, but long enough to tire his arm. With his home numbers, and the fact that I expect to get runs against Byrd, it's the right choice.

Yanks will force a game five and my prediction will come true.

I don't completely agree Alvaro. I just don't see how Joe can throw a guy out there that has nothing left in the tank. He can't pitch Hughes today because he threw almost 4 innings last night. Joba lost a little off his fastball, at least to me, and he needs a day or so. The yanks need to hold Pettitte back for Wednesday.
I know that it's do or die, but the other guys out there have to come threw. It just can't be on the selected few all of the time. Sooner or later, it won't work.

Speculation On The Next One After Torre
[quote]

http://www.waswatching.com/

From Jon Heyman today –

Speculation over a successor is starting up now.

Some on the inside view bench coach Don Mattingly as the clear favorite to replace Torre over the more experienced Joe Girardi. However, a managerial search can't be ruled out.

If Steinbrenner is as in charge and as with it as his remarks suggested (he certainly didn't sound like the vegetable he was portrayed as in a magazine article a few months ago), Mattingly, a Yankee icon, would be viewed as the leading contender despite his nonexistent managing experience and role in recent years as a coach on Torre's staff. Steinbrenner has strong and positive feelings for Mattingly.

Ex-Yankee Girardi could still be in the mix, though, and the NL Manager of the Year with Florida is believed to be favored by some in the Yankees' brass, including the "baseball people" (aka. Brian Cashman and his staff), and new son-in-law Felix Lopez. However, it's also possible that Girardi's close ties with Don Zimmer, who's been childishly attacking Steinbrenner since he left, could hurt him.

If the search expands, two other candidates could include Bobby Valentine, who was a pennant winner with the Mets and a champion in Japan and is liked by both general manager Cashman and Steinbrenner, and Tony La Russa, the type of marquee name that's attracted Steinbrenner in the past. La Russa's situation is unsettled in St. Louis, especially after the dismissal of general manager Walt Jocketty. Some believe La Russa, who's changed jobs every decade or so, might jump at the chance to go to the Yankees, who'd certainly be able to pay him after spending a record $7 million on Torre this year.
[/quote]

Michaelz
Don't say that, some of us may not agree with Roy, myself included many times, but always take everyone seriously; well except anons. And Roy has had a few predictions come true, right Roy?

Waite
I think we both mean the same, but saying it in different ways. I wouldn’t use Joba unless I completely needed him and you’re right that he looked extremely tired. I’m just saying that if we need him for something, he has to find the stuff and get the job done, no matter what.

And I would have left Hughes (I wasn’t able to see that part of the game, before anyone bashes me with comments about it) for at least one more inning and try to save Joba for only one inning. Did Hughes get intro trouble or did Joba started the inning?

Wang is pitching on 3 days rest and after throwing 92 pitches last time, he will not last too much past the 5th inning. Hopefully by then we will have at least an "8 spot" on the scoreboard. Gotta hope the bats finally wake up, cause Game 5 will be tough (Sabathia/Carmona/Gnats). Plus, as most Yankee fans know, we don't do well against "junk" ballers, even though we have handled the "Uumpa Luumpa" before. He is pitching on full rest and knows how to pitch. Hopefully we will be locked in and knock him out of the game early, so we can put some pitches on the arms in their bullpen.
Gotta do it for Scooter!
Go Yanks!

ALVARO-
Thanks for the "defense". I'll contribute to a good "discussion", but "bow out" every time some poster wants to get personal and take "pot shots". Thanks again.

Wang I hope that sinkers a sinkin! He had way too much rest in game 1 and didn't last too long . HOPEFULLY that will transend into Wang's sinker being kept down and inducing ground balls. Moose will pitch some relief but hopefully not much.

Go Yanks!

Mike, it's funny that you would say we don't do well against junkballers. It's my position we struggle against the hard throwers (Sabathia, Halladay, etc). Give me an example against a junk pitcher that consistently stymies this team. Byrd will have to be perfect, and that's really hard against a lineup stacked from top to bottom. Plus, this team woke up yesterday.

Alvaro, Roy seems like a nice guys, he's just wrong 98.6% of the time, that's all, and it amuses me that people continue to argue against his ridiculous points. We have to win the next two, not just tonight, and it's obvious that we can't empty the tank today. If we used Pettite tonight, then the following starters would be unavailable in game 5: Clemens, Pettite, Wang, & possibly Hughes. That would force us to start Mussina with no one to back him up when he implodes. You can't do everything to win game four if it gives you virtually no chance to win game five...

Ian Kennedy was left off the first round roster, no? I think he would have been a good first option out of the pen because he has shown good composure and the Tribe hasn't seen him. If so, that's too bad.

I agree with you there Alvaro. If he's needed, and hopefully he will not be, then he's got to drain the tank. I would like to see Wang throw one of his gems tonight. Mike from Jersey threw out a good point: Wang threw 92 pitches on Thursday so if Cleveland doesn't offer at his sinker, he may be finished by the 5th. I just have a feeling that Wang is going to be on tonight. I'm looking for a lot of ground balls and a low pitch count. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

If, by chance, Roy was right and the Yanks were to use Pettite tonight, it would mean that the Yanks were using the clause that allows them to remove Clemens from the roster. They'd be summoning Kennedy. Good move or bad move, unknown. He's been staying "ready" down in Tampa. This would mean Clemens was unavailable for the LCS, but that's not such a bad thing. I'd feel pretty confident in a rotation that went, Hughes, Wang, Pettite, Kennedy (I type it in that order based on when they would start in the LCS assuming we win the next 2 and rest expectations).

Wang will be sharp tonight though, so it won't matter.

Isn't Ian Kennedy hurt right now with a back issue?

I heard the kid is on his Honeymoon?

I'm not sure he's an option.

I'm pretty sure they ruled him out of the post-season plans and thereby granted the new "Mrs Kennedy" full custody LOL..

I think that Kennedy is available if the Yankees get to the LCS.

With Wang and the resulting ground balls\throws in the dirt etc., I hope Torre puts Doug M. at 1B.

So do I Roy, so do I.

If Giambi plays at all, then he should DH. But after seeing him strike out on a pitch that was out of the strike zone last night, I say let him ride the pines.

Back issue = innings cap.

He's been fine since before the regular season ended.

Yes, i think Kennedy has back problems (at least that's what it said on my daily fantasy newsletter from the Sporting News).

And serching for how bad the injury was, I just found out that Kennedy recently married, congrat Ian! (I think... lol)
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3052358

Got it Hughes Your Daddy.

So he would be available for the next round, or is he shut down for the rest of the season?

Ian says he's ready. It's up to the Yankee decision makers. I mean, the other option would be...

Kei Igawa

Yeah, I didn't even want to say it.

I don't like that option at all. I'd rather pitch Guidry than Igawa.

There is zero chance that Pettite throws today. Pitchers on 3 days rest historically are terrible. We are chancing it with Wang only because of the sinker ball theory, and he will be on a short leash as they say.

If Roger isn't available to LCS, I think that they would put Villone or some other reliever if Kennedy isn't available and Mussina would be #4. But you’re all getting ahead of yourselves. Let’s win today, worry about Wednesday; then we start thinking about the LCS.

If Clemens is off the line-up for the LCS and the Yanks decide Kennedy is unavailable, then Igawa WILL be on the roster in that he fulfills three roles: 1. lefty in the bullpen, 2. innings eater, 3. EMERGENCY starter.

HYD, Igawa fills one role...BP pitcher for the tribe, and nothing more.

Igawa!

Holy Cr@p!
Why not DeSalvo?
Or Clippard?
Or Whitey Ford?

OK Yankee land... I am off to pick up my kids.

I'll see you all tomorrow.

If the ALCS is Red Sox/Yankees, I will probably be a no show on the board.

The reason I'll say is it will be my first week working on the new show.

The real reason is my nerves won't be able to take it

Have fun tonight

Clueless Joe has done it again! The Yankees are are the brink of elimination and MUST win 3 in a row, so Joba MUST be available for each of those 3 games.

So, last night with a FIVE RUN lead, JT leaves Joba in for 2 innings when he could have used someone else for the 8th. If it was a 1 or 2 run lead, I would have understood, but it was FIVE RUNS! I think even Farnsworthless could of held that lead.

So, now Joba will be unavailable or at least not as effective coming in for tonight's game! Very stupid move by JT. His game management is UNBELIEVABLE!!!

I said Igawa for the LCS. No way the Yanks would use Pettite tonight if they knew the game 5 option was Igawa.

P.S. I predicted Clemens would blow last night's game and he did his darndest to fulfill my prediction. Get him off the roster and don't even think of using Igawa! Go with Villone over him.

Villone doesn't offer the same versatility. Besides, Igawa handled the Sox lineup well.

Igawa and several others have been sent home for the year. And some, like Kennedy, are still available for future rounds.

Phil Hughes is on with Mike and The Mad Dog

Why would the Yanks replace Clemens\a starter, with a Villone\a reliever? Kennedy is the obvious choice if healthy.

I "agree" Roy.

michaelz,
You obviously haven't been watching the games. The Yankees are among the best fastball hitters in baseball (along with Sox) so, our guys prefer hard throwers over "junk ballers". Guys that change speeds, pitch around the plate we have problems with - when they throw strikes. This is a historic fact. Wish HYD was here to give ya names...I don't keep a record on that stuff. still doesn't make it not true.

michaelz,
Damon woke up yesterday. Still not swinging the bats like the Yankees can (see Bosox/Halos)!Like 968 runs worth. I was there last night, they can hit BETTER than that, and I hope in the next 2 games they will. Time to wake up!

Mike, I am watching the games. I saw a hard thrower Sabathia hold us in check in game one. I saw a hard throwing Carmona (I know he throws a sinker, but features a hard fastball as well) stymie us in game two. This season, we could never hit pitchers like Halladay, another hard thrower. Your post begging HYD to do your work is lame..I don't need four pages of stats, just come up with the names of junkball pitchers in the AL that consistently stymie this team.

Michaelz/Mike from Jersey: You guys are arguing different points. Take Sabathia. He's a hard-thrower. He also changes speed and throws a lot of strikes. By no means is he a "junk baller". I could provide other names, but don't see the point.

Further, someone that throws true "junk" like Wakefield, the Yankees have been able to hit and hit hard.

I like that Byrd is pitching tonight. I'd be MUCH more uncomfortable with Sabathia (even on short rest). Does that make game 5 tough? Yeah. Especially knowing Carmona is in the pen, but I'm hoping the bats are coming alive. If they do, it doesn't matter who's pitching. When hot, this team hits everyone.

So, in summary, the Yankees have their most trouble with pitchers that throw hard, can locate pitches, and change speeds. What team doesn't?

michaelz,
Since you are not in a position to make demands, it is just your opinion vs mine and that does not worry me in the least. Sabathia was effectively wild (5 walks) and we did spank him (only 5 inning - 114 pitches). Carmona was "on" and would have beaten anyone. Halladay is a Yankee killer (there are one or two of those out there) and really shuts down everyone, who also happens to be a PITCHER, not a fireballer. And we have had past success against Carmona, unlike other teams. ARod, Posada, Matsui, Cano, Damon, Melky, Jeter, Duncan, Phillips, Giambi - are all GREAT fastball hitters.
Thats why when guys like Trachsel, Glavine (inter-league), "new" Shilling, Fossum, ie; "junk ballers" are shutting us down, everybody is surprised. Just gotta hit it where its pitched and we will be okay.
Maybe we can agree on one thing, tough guy - Go Yanks!!!

Whats up, HYD? Or should I say, "Super Genius"!

Sabathia certainly throws hard, but the Yanks major problem with him is that he's a "lefty". This also puts a severe "crimp" in any attempt at "running". Generally, any team is going to have trouble hitting any pitcher that consistently throws strikes at 94\95 mph, like Carmona does. This is a discussion that we should continue after the Yanks force a Game 5.

Good point Roy. I did forget about our problems against ANY lefty pitcher. Gotta address this in the off season....in the meantime, Go Yankees!!!

Roy

Villone has just replaced Clemens on the roster. Am I psychic or what? You forget, we are still in THIS round and a RP makes more sense.

COMMISH-
I see no reason why if healthy, Kennedy couldn't be used in either long or short relief. I don't think there is any debate about who was the better "chucker" this season. Villone does have "experience" on his side. I assume that was the "deciding factor".

Kennedy was not physically ready to be added to the roster in this series.

I don't like Villone either, but if Kennedy isn't ready, he isn't ready.

Kennedy is on his Honeymoon!!

He's as healthy and availible as any NEW HUSBAND LOL ;-)

Maybe next series for Kennedy.

Anyone know if Villone is in uniform for tonight's game?

Stupid move By Torre to start wang. I know Last year was o nhis mind but check it out, You did,nt Have Pettite Last year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF we signed him for if he not starting the damm playoff's??????? then when WRONG get the sh*t slapped outta him game one WHY DID"nt Torre Chance it on Pettite to start this game??????????

Jim A I know you probally saying Damm bomber, but yo u know what yo u cannot overlook this critical flaw. I say flaw especially when the Opposition scores in the 1st inning, in fact Wang has been crap in the last few starts he started

michaelz,
Hate to say I told ya so.....although I wish I was wrong. Torre/Guidry got to go. Time for a change and to give our kids a chance to make history.
See ya next year!
HYD, you are still a Super Genius!