On the Yankees beat

how about moving posada behind a-rod? matsui looks lost - is he using abreu bat lately?

Someone tell Torre we need to win and to never pitch that bum Bruney in a meaningful situaton ever again!!!

Bruney throws hard and well ... what's happened? Did he get burned out ...

Matsui had a great August and I don't think we will get much from him the rest of the way ... who can say what is wrong with him?

Lilly vs. Igawa

Any questions?

Instead of one of the best lefties in the NL we have Hello Kitty!

Igawa did ok. But 87 pitches and 5 walks in 5 innings was not so good.

But I am glad he did well.

He's trying. Hopefully he will give back most of the money he "earned" this year.

If he ever becomes homeless in Japan he will probably be pretty comfortable.

Japan has 127 million people. All but three of them live in Tokyo.

Out of that 127 million only 18,500 are homeless. They eat great food, which is free, (fresh food laws help!) and can work as day laborers and make US$ 90 per day. One homeless man, Katsunori Hamahara is 65 and cleans up the park where he sleeps, sweeping every morning ... the Japanese are pretty amazing!

Tokyo has put 1,500 homeless into their own apartments for US$ 30 per month, in apartments which rent for US$ 600 normally.

All of this was in an article in the Washington Post by Blaine Harden.

In the beginning of the year, Igawa pitched like a homeless man ... tonight ... he did well.

I hope he can keep it up.

Strange he would start such an important game, but you know ... he did ok ... you never know what will happen ...

Nice job by Karstens.

That's the way to leave that breaking ball over the plate.

Ruined my phucking dinner.

Every time we get to extra innings, we lose.

That lousy bastard Reyes can't get any Red Sox out, but he does the job against us.

When Betemit was up I told my wife he's gonna strike out on a breaking ball at his feet.

What's up with Cabrera and that down and in breaking ball? He's a sucker for that pitch.

Bruney blows!!!!!

Farnsworth looks better pitching from the windup. At least HE did okay.

Let's clinch the damn WC before we start seeing who can do what? After we clinch then Torre can play the Three Stooges for all I care.

ANT

Two Words...

BAKE-SALE

This $ucks Phucker!

The MVP goes yard on a gslam 53rd and 151st Rbi for 07 and that little spider monkey-EDWAR has to come in RUIN KEI's SHUTOUT LOL!!!

Bruney?

What happened to that guy this year?

He was great last year...

Very long evening for us John...

Ant,

Maybe a day where Igawa throws 5 shutout innings and Lilly loses a key game that allows the Brewers to get right back in it isn't the BEST time to be making the Lilly/Igawa argument

Ant,

Maybe a day where Igawa throws 5 shutout innings and Lilly loses a key game that allows the Brewers to get right back in it isn't the BEST time to be making the Lilly/Igawa argument

I didn't see or hear the game... why did Igawa come out after 5? If he had a shutout and a 5 run lead, why go to Moe Larry and Curly?

Not that Igawa is the next Steve Carlton but why not see if he could go 6?

Was he lousy and lucky to get out of it?

Or are these Igawa Rules?

I will not refer to stats. Its not my thing but if the following pitchers are with the Yankees next year than Cashman has been unable to improve the bullpen. They are Igawa,Ramirez,Bruney and Karstens. These guys are a major case of GI upset. They are all AAAA pitchers. Joe will have a difficult time making a bullpen roster for the playoffs.

Veras is looking good and Farnsworth may just surprise us. Villone does a credible job when not overused. Joba,Viscaino and Mariano and a whoever could be the calls that was horrible exhibition of pitchng talent last night. Talk about the bottom of the barrel.

Sully: Igawa had nothing but his 86-88 mph fastball. You throw in his many walks and in trouble every inning. There wasn't enough pepto in the house. Torre could not hide his displeasure over the pitching with Moe, Larry and Curly.

Will someone please inform Clueless Joe that you must first clinch a spot in the playoffs BEFORE you start experimenting with your bullpen. You mean to tell me that Joe and Gator STILL can't figure out what they have in their bullpen? Bruney - 90% percent of his innings pitched he has issued a walk. Edwar was released TWICE by the Halos. You don't think Scioscia knows anything about pitching? Torre has given the Tiggers hope, and the D-Rays confidence all in just one game. And he has taken a little confidence away from his squad. You have to go into the playoffs, if possible, with a little swagger - not stagger! Get a damn CLUE, Joe!

Joe, can you clinch first before you experiment with the bullpen. We better see the A guys tonight. Wang for 7, Joba in the 8th and Sandman to finish it up.

Why not extend Igawa, who probably won't see any action in the next 2-3 weeks anyway, to 100 pitches - 100 PITCHES! Why not? Did he ask out? Even if he gives up 1-2 runs, you ARE STILL LEADING in the game! Then you can try out Veras, Ohlendorf, Farnsworth, to MAKE SURE THEY ARE READY FOR THE PLAYOFFS - because THEY ARE GOING TO BE ON THE ROSTER FOR POST SEASON! That is what we are playing for - TO MAKE THE POST SEASON. Anything less than that is a disservice to all of the hard work this team put in to be in this position and a disservice to the fans who have supported this squad THROUGH THICK AND THIN. This team wins DESPITE Clueless Joe and Gator, NOT BECAUSE OF THEM. No free rides! Your time has past. Time to make a change in the off-season.

I've been out of town, away from home for the last couple of weeks due to work. Boy!...the ebb and flow is incredible eh? The Yanks get within a game and a half....now back to three...the drama never stops.

It sure looks like the four teams playing in the post season are all gearing up for it. I, of course, hope the Sox find a way to get the best winning record so they can choose the format of the first series in the post season...I think that could be critical....but in any event, the team that is the hottest of these four, will likely go onto the WS.

I dont see much, if any, advantage for one team over another....the only one being the Sox choosing the short format and forcing the opponent into using the #3 and 4 starters...and who knows...that could backfire.

Five games left....it looks like my prediction of the Sox winning 97 and the Yanks winning 93 is going to be close...not that it matters a lick. It's all about October baseball at this point.

My wife and I are planning our new home...we are building a house on our 50 acre woodlot (family land passed down) and this fall and winter looks to be very busy...we have sold our house and are moving over the next month...and will have to spend alot of time getting things prepared for building in the spring..(the cool thing is..we are doing alot of it ourselves...we have enough standing timber on our land, and my family also operates a saw mill.....kinda cool..but alot of work..saving us a whole heap of money though)...so I hope I can at least have time to watch the games...but she is a taskmaster. I'll check in from time to time...good luck Yank fans..and do your best to keep the knuckledraggers at bay.

oops...the above post was me.
New computer..forgot to put in the moniker.

Okay, I have slept on it and I'm over last night's horrific, ugly, insane performance. I understand why Torre used Bruney and Ramirez, he wants to see which one of these pieces of crap might might actually want to make the playoff roster and he got his answer last night- is it too late to activate Guidry? I think he can give us an inning or two now and then, I heard he still hits 85 during BP sessions.

Wang will pitch tonight and this will be over with. The Yanks should clinch (more like clench these days, I mean just do it already) tonight so I'm not worried.

The good news is we won't have any of these losers on the playoff roster and I'm certain Bruney earned his release last night so we won't have to worry about him much longer. With Ramirez, I think he just needs to pitch a lot, he's terrible when he hasn't pitched in a couple of days.
That was a putrid loss and the offense needs to get their sh*t together too.
Yeah, glad I'm over it.

The Maine redneck , once it is safe with a 3 game lead. What a pile of crap you are! Business my butt , you unemployed piece of crap! Go find a job so my taxes don't have to pay for you and your hillbilly wife!

Btw , even if what you wrote was true , who gives a crap? Are you that desperate for attention???

Jim A.,

Relax brother....aint nfw the Tiggers are gonna take the WC....they are 4 1/2 back with 5 to play. The Yanks are in.

I know Cas, I'm very confident the Yanks will clinch very soon, but that game last night was just ridiculous.

The game was ridiculous, but look who we were throwing out there.

Igawa did not look bad at all but from here on out he should be tried out of the bullpen. He will be on the post season roster for sure now.

I like Ohlendorf's stuff over Edwar and Bruney.

Why doesn't Britton get to pitch more? Can some please answer that?

Post season requires 11 wins out of a possible 19 games. Then throw in a ton of off days. So, the "new Rick Keyes" rule is Joba pitches in EVERY game we have a late lead. Doesn't matter if it's back to back or whatever. We have a lead, and Joba pitches!

Another "RK idea"...since Clemens is hurting again(nice $18 mil investment for .500 pitcher), why not make him a late inning setup man where he only has to pitch an inning or two every 2-3 days for the post season???? He's already pitching workout sessions between starts anyhow! Only going an inning or two might save the wear and tear so we could get more GAMES out of him. With our bullpen, we need starters to go DEEP into games, so Clemens working as a SP isn't really going to help us anyhow.

Rick,
I believe the new Joba Rules are just what you said, and Torre announced that yesterday. However, the Yanks were in a tough spot because they had a lead in the 6th and Igawa was shaky at best, any good team would have drilled him, so the Yanks had to go to the pen early and they just made the wrong choices.

Don't know about Clemens as a reliever, but to me, anything goes in the playoffs.

In order to use Clemens as a reliever we need to be able to trust Mussina or Hughes as a 3rd starter.

I do not think I could do that. Though Mussina has looked better his last few starts.

Please relax-

THIS WAS NOT A MUST WIN

THESE GAMES MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

The Yankees have already clinched a tie for the playoffs- so the only possible must win for this week would be if the lead were down to one win on Sunday. For that to happen the Yankees have to go 0-4 and the Tigers 3-0. Odds of all seven of those things happening?

Yankees relaxed after Arods grand slam, as they often do after a big hit. They need to work on tacking on runs. Bad move putting Giambi up with 1st and 3rd and no one out. DM would have made contact there. Hope this isn't a playoff preview.

The Yankees shut out the Drays for 8 of the nine innings. The only pitchers who pitched that will be seen inthe post season were Villone and Farnsworth and they did well.

And finally, Cleveland is three games ahead of LA in the loss column.

So relax, be happy, and stop stressing about a "celebration" being postponed. Three celebrations in October are the ones we want.

Why is Brian Bruney still a Yankee? He should have been released. Without his heroics of the last few weeks the Yanks might have caught the Sox. Every time he pitches you just know disaster is coming.

I guess if there is good news to be extracted from last night, it is the fact that Britton struck out the only batter he faced, and as cs07 says, Farnsworth, Villone and even Veras pitched effectively.
I'm going to the game on Sunday, taking my son and nephew and part of me hopes that the game means a little something so we get to see the "A" team, but the other part of me doesn't need any drama.

Only Bosox fans are saying, "Relax, relax...". Relax my eye! Who here thinks it not possible to go on a 4 game losing streak? Or how about a 3 game winning streak? Give me a break! Take care of your business, then re-evaluate your pitching. How come this is so difficult to understand? You do not celebrate until it is time to celebrate. Don't forget, we are not in the playoffs YET! We have to get some guys some rest. Take care of business first. We do not want to wind up like the Mutts.
Good Grief!

Well, my guess is the celebration will happen tonight...the guy pitching against Wang aint much, and was positively lit up by the Yanks the last time he faced them. I'd also say the Indians have a pretty good chance at todays game with Camona pitching. Lester going for the Sox...at home...I'm "hopeful".

Have no tolerance for "non-athletes". Get off of your PC's and stop playing fantasy baseball! Put a glove on and fling the rock around a little bit! And please grow some coconuts. Take nothing for granted!

Is Mike From Jersey telling us to go play for the Yankees?

LMAO....that was a pretty funny post mike...uh...are you posting from a laptop in the backyard whilst "throwing the rock" around?

Mike

I am saying relax and I am definitly not a Red Sox fan.

Since they have already lost 2 straight, they would have to go on a seven game losing streak not to make it.

And I've seen this team hold wild celebrations the last two years after clinching and then getting knocked out in the first round. This week has absolutely no bearing on what the team will do next week. Unless of course there is an injury to a key player.

Imagine if Torre, to close things out, brought in Chamberlin for two innings last night and Rivera for two, and one of them got hurt. Could you imagine the outrage?

Bruney "Great" Last Year:

For those of you that keep posting how "great" he was last year, in my mind, he wasn't even good last year, he was just EXTREMELY lucky.

He pitched in 19 games for 20 2/3 innings pitched. Not exactly a large sample size.

He struck out 25. Good number, maybe even great.

His ERA was 0.87 (the most deceiving statistic in baseball for a reliever).

He walked 15 and gave up 14 hits. That's a WHIP of 1.4.

This year, his WHIP is 1.6. Worse, yes, major difference? Not really.

The thing for relievers is, how do they treat inherited runners? He gave them up last year, but kept his own ERA down.

You want more evidence of how bad he is? Let's look at 2005 in the AAAA Leage (NL) for Arizona:

47 Games, 46 IP, ERA 7.44 (I know those who don't understand relievers LOVE that last number).

Gave up 35 walks and 56 hits. His WHIP was 1.98.

Where is there a "GREAT" pitcher anywhere in his stats? There isn't even a "good" relief pitcher in those stats.

So folks, stop fooling yourselves.

Good job with those stats Hughes.

Bruney has no shot at being on the roster- the word is they are taking 11 pitchers.

Wang, Pettite, Clemens, Mussina, Hughes, Mo, Joba,Farnsworth, Vizciano- that's 9 right there. I think Villone will be the 10th, and the 11th guy will be among Veras/Ohlendorf/Britton. And really, is the 11th pitcher really going to pitch in ameaningful spot? (especially if they are in the three day off series, when you only need 3 starters.)

What is Torre's philosophy re: relief pitching? If you have a good inning, your out, so he can keep looking for the "bum of the day".

Hey Sully, if you can throw the ball about 88mph, I vote to sign you up right now, as long as you can THROW STRIKES!

HYD: Your the accountant, so numbers are your thing. 2006 had me fooled but this year no one needs the numbers to know that he doesn't belong on the playoff roster and next years team roster.

To think he mocked Torre's reason for sending him down to AAA which was to find the strike zone. He's definitely in the Twilight Zone of his baseball career. Send him home and quick, trade value nil!

If they're taking 11 pitchers, they're taking 14 position players? I don't see that, but let's try:

1b: Minky
2b: Cano
SS: Jeter
3b: ARod
LF: Damon
CF: Melky
RF: Abreu
C: Posada
DH: Matsui

That leaves 5 guys for the bench:
Utility: Betemit
DH/PH: Giambi
C: Molina

Who else REALLY deserves to be on the bench? You want a right-handed threat, fine, Duncan. How is there a 5th guy though?

So clearly, the 11 number for pitchers is wrong. At a minimum, that number is 12. That number might be 13.

Who will they be:
1. Pettite
2. Wang
3. Clemens
4. Mussina
5. Hughes
6. Mo
7. Joba
8. Vizcaino
9. Farnsworth
10 - 13.Options/Needs

Lefty:Villone, Igawa, or both? I made an arguement for Igawa yesterday, no need to rehash.

Ohlendorf - He's only pitched 3 2/3 innings. I don't think he's on Joe's list. He's pitched well in those innings though.

Veras - Joe keeps on pitching him, so he's gotta be on the radar screen.

Bruney - no chance

Britton - I think he should be a no brainer and seeing as how that's how Joe makes bullpen decisions, he's got a fighting shot. 11 innings, WHIP of 1.11.

Edwar - Joe keeps using him and I keep covering my eyes like a little kid watching a scary movie. He's the "change of pace" guy though, so maybe. 1.76 WHIP though...come on now.

If I have to rank them for 10 - 13:

10. Igawa
11. Britton
12. Villone
13: Veras (Ohlendorf if Joe uses him and he pitches well in the remaining 5 games) Then there is always the Kennedy arguement if he's deemed healthy. I don't want to make that assumption though.

Hughes:

Torre has already said that they would take a 14th position player as a Andy Fox/Clay Bellinger type guy. Since he has used Sarditha in just about every game this week as a pinch runner, he would probably be the guy- but it could also be Gonzalez (the young ss).

Having a pr for Posada, Giambi, et al is more important than a 12th pitcher who will most likely not pitch in the series.

As a great final Bruney note: Compare his 2006 to Joba's 2007.

Joba has 21.2 IP, so it's a close comparison, though he did it in 16 games.

31 Ks
WHIP 0.74
ERA 0.42

His WHIP supports his ERA, especially with the high strikeout total.

I'm currently devising an algebraic formula that takes those variables into account. Essentially it will tell you that if your WHIP = X and you have Y strike outs, without luck, your ERA should be Z. I have to modify that basic premise though to account for slugging percentage. A pitcher with a WHIP of 1.2 that gives up a HR every inning is much worse off than the pitcher witha WHIP of near 2, but he gives up primarily walks or singles.

Still, a pitcher that gives up lots of contact is always more likely to get in trouble.

HYD,
Thanks for reminding everyone why Clueless Joe should not have brought Bruney into a game that could have clinched a playoff spot. Only move that could have gone either way was Edwar, but since Joe admitted after the game that they were trying some different things with him, he should not have been used in this game either. Clinch then Experiment.

I love it.
Torre has the Yankees at 50-25 since the 4th of July and STILL has to have the "Clueless Joe" label on him!

I got it out of my system last night as Phucker and I were ranting to each other.
I said last night what Mike said today; clinch the spot then play the three Stooges for all I care. Our bullpen is giving me agita! I know that you hate him Mike, but kay gave an interesting stat on Sunday while I was watching the game. Over the last 29 games (from Sunday), the Yankee bullpen with just Mo and Joba has an ERA of 0.94 or some low number like that, and the rest of those clowns over the same period have an ERA of 8.83!

8.83!!!!!!!

They blow!!!!!

Can't ANY OF THESE GUYS THROW STRIKES AND GET AHEAD IN THE COUNT?

ANYONE?
ANYONE?

This is pathetic and yes, I know that we only need one to get in, but get it over with so my damn dinner goes down a lot easier!!!

I'm going over to the new thread.

Maybe if we all got off our computers and went out and flung the rock around for awhile, we'd see the logic of ol' Clueless Joe, eh?

Sully,

We're just ranting about Torre.

It's no different than your Red Sox buddies calling Francona "Francoma"

HYD,

Am I going to have to go back to college now with those algebra formulas of yours? :-)

Hey...

If second guessing was outlawed in sports fanship....MLB would go out of business.

Make sure to fling a rock at Cas Ob. Forgot, not supposed to throw rocks at ladies! (Yes, you are a female). Good disguise, though.

And, welcome back from Rehab, Cas Ob (rumor mill).

LOL...why, thank you mikey...yes I learned all sorts of interesting things at rehab....like the difference between male and female...and how to tell. You, however, seem fixated on making me a female...other than the fact that it may be some sort of perversion on your part, I could care less. whatever gets you through the night.

Sully - I'm with you on this one. Managing is a second guesser's haven and "Clueless Joe" has really steadied this franchise for years. Yeah, he beats on selected relievers, but handling Steinbrenner and the New York Media with such ease has really been overlooked. Oh yeah, and he generally wins. It's unfortunate we haven't won since 2000, but that can't be all on Joe. He hasn't thrown a pitch or swung a bat. He'll never be a managerial genius, but if I owned the Yankees he and Cashman could stay as long as they liked. Payroll or not Joe delivers them to the playoffs like clockwork. After that it's anybody's game. I know I seem to be in the minority around here, but I'm a Torre/Cashman man and proud of it. You'll miss these guys when they're gone. Mark my words.

Cas Ob,
lol. Welcome back