On the Yankees beat

Which team is better overall?

Red Sox
97.7%
Yankees
2.3%
Total votes: 394

We are 2 games out of the playoffs = WC. The formula is simple! Stop looking up at the Red Sox and get focused again on winning each series we play. Do that and were in.

Once the playoffs start, it's a whole new fresh start with everyone at 0-0. And may the best team win!

Rick Keyes, look at the brutal schedule that Seattle has in September

making up those games against Seattle is more than doable

Keep in mind Seattle wet the bed against the Rangers

Seattle was due to cool off as were the Yanks.

I just hope that the Yanks get the split now so that we can come home on an up note.

Boston picking up those three games on the Yanks kinda took the fire out of this series for me. Now all I want to do is play good baseball and get ready for the Mariners when they come a calling.

On a down note, we go from 1 question mark to 3 in the rotation now.

phil hughes

disclaimer - this is post is not about bashing hughes or over reacting.

so, let's look at the facts.
hughes was touted as a "phenom", a difference maker. none of us fans attached that adejctive to him, baseball pundits and scouts did.
a phenom he is not. verlander, b. webb, those guys were phenoms, making a huge impact during their rookie campaign.
hughes has serious issues that make you wonder if he's ready. he was described as a control pitcher but is having big trouble locating his fastball. his velocity is average and the biggest problem is he only throws 2 pitches, which is why he is hittable.
i really like the kid. he seems like a warrior and obviously he'll get better. but i don't think he's an ace or a number 1.

and that leaves the yanks still looking for that future number 1.

Gil L: do to the Yankees miserable pitching situation as confirmed by Kat's stats. Hughes was brought into battle about a 1.5 years ahead of schedule. Our pitching is horrible but the extent of the payroll from George S. on down to the fan believe its doable but you win with pitching and our hitting should have been enough with decent pitching. next year should be no different and I believe Joba should go into the SP. We must shore this up first. You can't win when your 6 runs behind all the time.

When I read Kat's title for this thread I got all excited because I thought Moose decided to join the WNBA or something and quit baseball. Alas, my dreams are doused again and momentarily, the Moose will take the hill and be bombed. I loathe you Moose.

The Yanks need to get these starters going as Kat points out or I'd rather not see them make the playoffs just to make an early exit. If any of those starters had half the guts that Andy Pettitte does, they'd be in good shape.

I'll say this, while I expected Wang to pitch well, and his recent bad streak not withstanding, he has fared pretty well, I hoped Moose would be better, and the Yanks are getting about what I expected from Clemens. The surprise to me is Pettitte. I figured coming back from the NL and elbow trouble would leave him as a number 4 starter w/ a 4.5+ ERA and boy has he proven me wrong. Sometimes guys get by on guts more than anything and that's what I love about this guy. To steal one of George's favorite sayings "He's a real warrior".

Where would this team be without Andy?

Why is it that guys that are pitching well have "guts" or are "competitors". Did Petite have guts when he was getting bombed in game 6 of the 2001 World Series? Let's call it what it is...Pettite has talent and Moose no longer does. Let's stop with the nonsense...

Looking at the past week:

Hughes wasn't great against Anaheim, but he wasn't awful. Maybe if he finished the 7th, Anaheim doesn't get the three runs and take the lead.
Moose WAS awful as he was aginst Detroit the outing before. I'm hoping for a better turn today from him.
Petitte was brilliant. No more needs to be said.
Clemens may have been affected by the 4 hour rain delay. He probably had to get up, throw, sit, get up, throw, etc. Maybe it was too much for him at 45.
Wang was really good on Saturday. He got the DPs to bail himself out and had a low pitch count through 8.
Hughes only gave up 4 hits yesterday!
Too bad three of them were HRs.
As someone else stated, he's having trouble locating and he's hanging the breaking ball.

I don't know, but I'm hoping that they'll all get into a good groove and do what it takes to get the wildcard.

Looking at the past week:

Hughes wasn't great against Anaheim, but he wasn't awful. Maybe if he finished the 7th, Anaheim doesn't get the three runs and take the lead.
Moose WAS awful as he was aginst Detroit the outing before. I'm hoping for a better turn today from him.
Petitte was brilliant. No more needs to be said.
Clemens may have been affected by the 4 hour rain delay. He probably had to get up, throw, sit, get up, throw, etc. Maybe it was too much for him at 45.
Wang was really good on Saturday. He got the DPs to bail himself out and had a low pitch count through 8.
Hughes only gave up 4 hits yesterday!
Too bad three of them were HRs.
As someone else stated, he's having trouble locating and he's hanging the breaking ball.

I don't know, but I'm hoping that they'll all get into a good groove and do what it takes to get the wildcard.

In order to break the "wildcard" curse the Sox put on us during their WS victory run, we are gonna have to do the same thing, win the Wild Card and win the World Series. It is very possible, but we need our starters to "suck it up" for the last month of the regular season. Pettite would have been considered for CY if our bullpen had not blown at least 4-5 games Andy left when leading earlier this season. No matter what, major changes in the starting rotation are needed in order for our Yanks to hang with the up and comers in the division. How 'bout Rocket as pitching coach?

Michaelz-
Look at Pettitte's history. The man is MONEY when it comes to pitching after a Yankee loss, and he never, ever complains about his aches and pains or the conditions he has to pitch under.
When a player behind Andy makes an error, he bears down to try to pick that guy up. Moose lets the error unravel him and you can bet that the team will pay the price for it.
Do you remember when Moose was pitching in Toronto last year and got all pissy because they started the game late and it "ruined" his start (he pitched like crap that day). Do you remember what the 5 minute delay in that game was? Yep, it was a tribute to the Jays announcer who had died that day, but Moose didn't care about that.

Heartless, gutless, soulless puke- that's what he is in my opinion. Worse yet, I believe he's a quitter.

The Mariners aren't the only team in the wild card race with the Yankees. The Tigers are now 2 games back of the Yankees. That is why this game tonight is big. The Tigers were just about dead, but if they take 3 out of 4 from the Yankees they will be re-energized. If the Yankees had been able to win those 2 close games this weekend, the Tigers would have been done.

On a positive note: all Yankee bashers said let's see what they do after they finish with the bad teams. I believe that would be a 20 game strecth beginning August 10 at Cleveland. So far, they are 9-7. They have held their own.

Actually Mike, to break the curse, you need the head of a goat, six wild mushrooms, and an eye of newt. When you get those, you put them in a cauldron, bring it to a boil, then walk counter-clockwise around the cauldron while drinking the brew blindfolded. Only way I know to get rid of curses.

Might just be easier if they play better ball than everyone else down the stretch...

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=17005

Phil Hughes: Buster, Am I over-hyped, or do I just lack experience and a more developed "killer instinct"?

SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:07 PM ET ) Phil: You're a two-pitch pitcher right now, and you need a third pitch, because on those days when you're not throwing your breaking ball for strikes, consistently, hitters will feast on your fastball. But eventually, you'll develop a good changeup. The problem for the Yankees is that they don't have much margin for error now...

Ross (CA): Looking toward the future, who would you rather have: Cain and Lincecum or Hughes and Chamberlain?

SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:18 PM ET ) Ross: Chamberlain. His stuff is ridiculous, his work ethic is apparently tremendous (according to Yankees veterans), his focus seems off-the-charts, and he seems devoted to success. Lincecum is wildly talented but you do naturally wonder if he'll hold up, with such a small frame. I'd probably take Cain second, Lincecum, then Hughes....

Sam (Toronto): Buster - rank these guys: Hughes, Chamberlain, Buccholz, Lester

SportsNation Buster Olney: (1:21 PM ET ) Sam: Chamberlain, Buccholz, Hughes, Lester

So Jim, how would you have described the shutout Moose threw against the A's in an elimination game in 2001? Was that gutless? Just wondering.

Kat should have included MO's stats for the last month. It's not just the "front end", but the "back end" of the Yankee pitching staff. This means the guys that are pitching well must do "double duty". Chamberlain's workload has got to increase, and surprisingly Farns also. These 2 guys have been the best out of the pen. Vizcaino has been effective when he is brought in to start an inning. That gives us 3 "good" relievers to get to MO. I would even use Farns, Vizcaino, and MO, to get to Chamberlain. The key is, start innings with these relievers. This would shorten the number of innings that guys like Mussina, and Clemens "stagger" through. I'm not concerned about Hughes. Young pitchers almost always go through the "1 bad inning" every game. It just takes them awhile to figure out how to get cleanly out of "jams", or sometimes just "minimize the damage".

Jim A,

How was your trip? Judging by your posts (all 2 of them) last week, you were away.

You know, you'd think that Moose would do better and pick it up after he called out pavano in spring training. Now he's a quitter himself. I agree with you in that I'm starting to hate this guy (from a baseball perspective of course).

CS07,

You're right. We have held our own, but we have to do better than that. We still have 6 with Boston and we need 4 of them at least. We have 3 with Seattle and need all of those. 6 with Baltimore and they own us so far this year. 6 with Toronto and they're tough.

Roy now wants to displace a legend and use the guy he would have traded away for a rental as our closer despite the fact that he only has eight innings under his belt. Any other brillant idea Roy?

I’m having a little trouble with the goat’s head; can I swap it for a sheep?
Do have to make any necessary adjustments for not having the goat?

Any spells for putting a curse on someone/a team?

John, Moose just doesn't have it any more, period. THat happens when a pitcher is pushing 40. I saw Steve Carlton pitch for the Indians towards the end of his career. He didn't quit, just didn't have his stuff any more. Same with Moose..

Alvaro, yes. You put J.D. Drew, Julio Lugo, and Coco Crisp on their team. So far it's not working...

Roy,

Farnsworth has looked good against Detroit, hasn't he?

Dude, Mussina is "Heartless, gutless, soulless puke......he's a quitter."?

The same Mussina that came into Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003, runners on the corners, no outs and got out of the jam?

John G-
My trip was good, thanks for asking, but I'm actually glad to be back to work. How's the dog doing?

Michaelz: Nothing happened during that game against Oakland to "disturb" the Moose, so he pitched a heck of a game.

By the way, in 2001, and Mark Grace has admitted this many times the DBacks saw that Pettitte was tipping his pitches and they pounded him.

You go ahead and take Moose to the bank, I'll take Andy any time.

Crosetti, my point is that I didn't hear these kind of comments last year when he pitched over his head and kept this team afloat when we were fighting the Sux off. Bad stuff doesn't make you gutless, it just makes you plain old bad...

MZ,

If that's the case, then he needs to come up with something to get the job done.

I said last week that maybe he needs to throw his stuff slower to make the fastball look faster. But someone shot that one down as it would mess up his mechanics. That person could be right, but...

he's got to find a way.

We still need him down the stretch.

Jim, where's this bank where you deposit starting pitcher's performances? Nothing happened to "disturb" Moose that game? Maybe he gets a little credit for that, no? I don't like him at this point any more than the next guy, but he's lost his stuff, it's that simple. And Jim, Pettite also got bombed in game 1 of the 1996 World Series as well. Guess he was "gutless" that night...

Whether "gutless" or "old", the end result is the same. The Yanks just need to minimize the number of innings Mussina is out there, by using Vizcaino, Farns, Chamberlain, and MO. The R\Sox are "wetting their pants" fearing that the Yanks are going to let Chamberlain "run wild", starting Tues.

MZ,
We could go on all day and pick every one of Pettitte's bad starts and put them up against Moose's good ones but I'll say this and I'm done with this subject: Pettitte and many others never, ever make excuses when they lose. Mussina always found a way to blame everything but himself (the trip to Japan, pregame ceremony, rain delay etc.). To me, that's gutless.

If you suck, you suck and people would respect you more if you just say it. That's what Moose needs to do.

Besides the mechanics, changing a pitcher's speed almost always will effect the amount of movement he has on his pitch. This also effects his control. That's why players are sent to the minors to work on things so the parent club doesn't take a beating while he's reinventing himself. No way that was going to happen in a month's time. Nice thought though...

Yeah Jim, that's what we need; we need the pitcher the Yankees decided to give the ball to each day coming out and telling the whole world that he sucks. That should fix the problem.

Such anger. Are you sure we are all rooting for the same team? LOL

What's wrong with admitting when you "didn't have it" for that start?
I'd respect a guy for doing it.
You've never heard a pitcher say "well, I got my butt kicked today. I couldn't get my breaking ball over so I was fighting myself all day long".

Doesn't that sound better than "That darn pregame ceremony for the dead announcer really irked me and ruined my game"?

MZ,

I do have to agree with Jim on this one. I would rather have a player who knows when he stinks then one who makes up excuses for his performances. In the end all the discussion in the world won’t change the outcome of anything. Let’s all hope that we see the Mussina of old tonight…..not the old Mussina.

Jim A,

Thanks for asking about 1127654, errr, I mean Bogey.

We're under strict orders from the vet to keep him confined which he is for about 20 hours/day. I keep him out of the cage at night and he stays by me.

He's doing great! The meds are working and he's shown marked improvement. He's not dragging his hind legs like he was when he got hurt and he can get his balance and walk some. I want to renew his perscription, but i'm sure that the vet will want to see him first. All in all, I'm really happy with his progress!!!

Guys, it's not that Moose is a quitter, it's just that he's always making excuses and getting unravelled at bad plays behind him. As Jim said, when that happens to Andy, he buckles down and tries to bail out his teammates. Moose doesn't do that.

I'm hoping for the best, but expecting the worst tonight.

By the way, has anyone noticed how well Josh Phelps is playing for Pittsburgh these days? I'm glad he's doing well, he was a nice guy. It seems like he has been on fire of late so maybe he'll stick with them or in MLB and end up like Carlos Pena.

I saw Phelps a few weeks ago when the Pirates were at SF. I went to the game that Pittsburg won 5-0. Phelps hit a 2 run HR and just missed a second one which went for a triple.

I'm happy for the guy, But I'm glad that Phillips is playing 1st for us now.
He made a great play Friday night (err, saturday morning) and at the time, it saved the game for the Yanks.

Then henn had to go and blow it.

AGAIN!!!

Would you say Henn "Laid an egg"? Haha

Heartless,soulless and gutless puke and he's making 12 mil a year and laughing all the way to the bank.A punk like Jim A needs to stop exhausting himself.

The only good thing about the Yanks losing, and keeping Detroit in the "wild card" race, is that Detroit still has 3 games left with Seattle. If we had "clubbed" Detroit to death, they probably would have "laid down" against Seattle, just like the W\Sox did against Boston this past weekend.

The White Sox are bad!

Really, really bad!!!

We knew Vazquez wasn't very good and it was only a matter of time that Contreras regressed, but wtf happened to Garland and Buerhle?

Oh well, we have the Yanks problems to worry about.

The White Sox just laid down like the dogs that they are....I think I just insulted my self. Isn't it funny how Jose Guillian hasn't opened his big mouth lately? I love it!

scoreboard watching for the next 2-3 weeks focuses on SEA, not BOS.

however, Torre's post game comment "we'll be all right" from yesterday leads me to believe team feels the same way.

and one guy of many, if not all, that is on Torre's bandwagon is Moose. i think his experience and resolve will help us here on out. but he has to last 6/7 innings on 3-5 run baseball.

and Roy, releasing Chamberlin, if such a thing, can not intimadate the red sox. they have been in first place since april and currently lead division by 8 games.

Hahaha. Pretty funny stuff,Michaelz! Baseballers are superstitious (not all of us,I guess)but next year changes will be needed in the rotation and on the coaching staff. Need fresh ideas, fresh arms, and a four leaf clover!

What happened to Buerlhe and Garland?

Ozzie burned them out.

By the way I meant Ozzie not Jose. Sorry.

It's nice to see that Mike Myers found a home in Chicago.

He fits right in with that bunch.

The White Sox got burnt out... it's amazing.

I thought they were winning back to back World Series

Now they are the Devil Rays

Amazing tumble

Here is a question: Does Moose have any rings? At one time, when he had his "stuff", you could live with the "creature of habit" stuff, but now when Moose's stuff has clearly diminished, he can not be given "special" treatment if the results are not there. Clemens pitched despite being sabotaged with a 4 hr rain delay - UNHEARD OF. Moose needs more results, less excuses. Long relief would be in the best interest of everyone. Moose has done this in post season before, with some success. Gotta contribute something before retirement.

Mike,

That is great to put Mussina in the pen for long relief but who pitches in his place for the rest of the year?

You guys keep "dancing" on the grave of Moose, but these old veterans have "ways" of "getting by" when time has taken it's toll. Time for Moose to break out the KY Jelly.

Roy,

Why you have a date with him?

Moose and I go way back, except then he was the "catcher".

I hear he is fussy about who is his catcher.

Wasn't me.

Roy,

Did you have to go there? I know when talk of K-Y Jelly comes out things are about to get sticky or slippery, whichever is more appropriate.

Tampa Bay is beating the White Sox right now, 3-0, Bottom 5. I guess Devil Ray fans will be bombing our site soon telling us how great their team is.

OUR site?

Beyond Mussina this is a big, big game for the Yankees and given that it is a big game and that Mussina is pitching I'm guessing Yankees will be down 8-2 after 2 innings and Moose will be on his way to the showers.

Roy - There are plenty of pitchers who pitch well without half the fastball of Mussina - it is all about making adjustments, Moose refuses to do that. Even Clemens has made concessions to age, he no longer has 97mph heat, but he has changed his strategy to compensate. He pitches to contact, throws more two seam fastballs to try and get ground balls rather than strikeouts - Mussina's stubborness is costing the Yankees games.

Miguel,

Red Sox lead by 7 1/2 games but 7 in loss column. They played one game more than we have. If we win tonite, we are 7 in back.

Sully,

White Sox are not Devil Rays. Devil Rays are beating the White Sox as we speak.

Roy is right.

Moose needs the KY jelly, but not for the reasons stated here.

A little dab under the brim of the hat; a little dab on the pants leg; a little dab under the belt buckle and away we go.

I'll bet that abll will break a ton if he does that!

Remember what Jim Rome always says:
"If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'"!

5 game diff. between DRays and WSox. Both last place teams in AL --

Actually make that last place teams in the MLB (both AL & NL).

BAD!!!!!!

I think K-Y jelly is more slippery then Vaseline.....not that I would know from experience. Just ask Gaylord Perry. K-Y jelly was his choice in the latter years. I read that somewhere but I don't remember where.

Mets are in first place in all NL but Yankees have just one less win than they do.

Anonymous,

I have a bet with one of my coworkers that the Yanks will have a better record than the Mets at the end of the year. It goes to show you what a weak league the National league is.

Its not supposed to be slippery. It is supposed to add a "lump" to deform the sphere of the ball. Tha same way a cut in a golf ball makes it more differently through the air.

Dog,

The AL has the two teams with the worst record.

RANT ALERT RANT ALERT RANT ALERT

I don't know if anyone caught the game on the radio yesterday but Sterling (in his standard mocking tone) and Waldman in her own incredulous tone were laughing at the notions that Mussina would lose his spot in the rotation being bandied about by (as they put it) "so called experts" and "fans on call-in shows" but not by "real baseball people who know what Mike Mussina is" (incidentally Roy, that is an appropriate use of quotation marks)

Anyway, at one point they argued that however Mussina does in this game it makes no sense to pull him because his next start is against Tampa Bay and he can beat them anyway. Well aside from just being foolish reasoning - it doesn't matter how well a player is performing, the level of competition against him is about to drop so lets just forget it, and don't think that they wouldn't be the first two to crow about how good Mussina looks against Tampa and how nuts people were to want him yanked - no pun intended. But here's the thing, if you're going to replace Mussina with a Steve White or Ian Kennedy, wouldn't you WANT them to cut their teeth against a Tampa Bay rather than a Boston or Seattle. And what happens if Mussina struggles against Tampa - do you continually just run him out there hoping more than believing that he's going to give the Yankees a chance to win? Sterling went so far as to say he would "laugh in the face of anyone who said that the Yankees replace a big time veteran like Mussina with Kei Igawa or Steve White." They then started in on Hughes, about how no one is calling for him to be removed - really? comparing a 21 year old rookie making his 7th start vs. Mussina? These people are supposed to call the game, I don't care that they're homers but there is a difference between rooting for the TEAM and making excuse after excuse for a player who has less than nothing and hasn't pitched particularly well at all this season or the last two (at least not when the team really was desperate for him to pitch well)

On another note. Does anyone believe, given the strength of the MLB Players' Association that if a player was to confess to dog fighting as Vick did today that the league would be able to suspend him the way the NFL suspended Vick. The league office (MLB) is such a sham that the player would probably get a 5 game suspension and Bud Selig would do more of his "well it's for the best interest of the game" routine.

Meany,

You just enlightened me to something I did not know. I thought it was to help it spin faster off of your fingers so you would get a better drop in the ball. I learned something new today. Now I can go home a happy man…..well at least a kinda happy man.

Roy why does round pizza come in square box?

Dog,

The purpose is to make the ball move sharply in one direction like a golf ball slices. Same principal behind the motion of a whiffle ball by using the holes to create a draft that moves the ball.

Why are manhole covers round?

NL has 9 teams at or over .500.....AL only has 7.

Meany,

Thanks for the info. I always assumed it was get more spin on the ball. So I guess that would serve the same purpose as scuffing or scraping the ball?

make that 8

Meany, your stats miss the point. The AL has won 6 of the 3 last 9 titles, 11 straight all-star games (ten actually, one was a tie) and has won the head to head interleague record the last 3 years (this year's plus 22 was the lowest of the three years). You can't pick out the performance of a few teams to make a point. The AL is clearer the better league, and it's been that way for several years now...

Meany,

Alright I was wrong about the Al being better then the NL. You don't have to rub it in. LOL I can't help being an AL "homer" because I can't stand all the Met's fans that I work with. I hope you understand my issue....I am currently in counseling for them. Haha

Several ex Yanks are doing well this year.

Tim Redding since July

Jeff Weaver in August

Ted Lilly ... all year

Carlos Pena

Phelps (his brother works at the burn unit of the Brooke Army Medical Hospital in Texas)

Jake Westbrook ... in August

It says some nice things for the system ... even if they do well elsewhere.

Well maybe I was right. Thank you michaelz. Can you guy's tell that I have comitment issues.

Will Horne and Kennedy be called up to pitch in September?

I'm sure they will be called up but I doubt they will pitch unless it is a mop up situation.

Ant, no at least as far as Kennedy. The Organization has said he has thrown too many innings to call him up

Wow...The Astros got busy- Fired Garner and the GM. I suspect jobs will be opening up left and right pretty soon.
Any guesses as to who gets fired after this season?
I'd say:
Ozzie Guillen- Maybe
Ron Washington- Maybe
Charlie Manuel- Probably
Grady Little- Maybe
Ned Yost- Maybe
Jim Bowden- Probably
Brian Cashman- Doubtful
Joe Torre- Maybe, but may quit first.
Clint Hurdle- Maybe
Everyone in Toronto- Probably

Can't think of any others right now

Comparing AL to NL is like comparing the A league record to the major league record and saying the A ball league is better because it has a lot more wins. It's all relative: when garbage teams play garbage teams the results are_____ you got it. 'Nuf said.

Jim A.

Torre's contract is up - do you consider him not getting a new deal to be him getting fired?

Cash stays

Yost - no - their collapse was because Sheets got hurt and Capuano fell apart.

Manuel - no
Grady Little - Yes
Jim Tracy - Yes
Dave Littlefield - Yes
Ned Coletti - maybe
Walt Jockety - ma