On the Yankees beat

LOL Farnsworth won't talk. What a piece of $hit!

Ah.

It was a nice run, wasn't it?

All I know is these prospect pitchers better be good.

Did i read that correctly... Rivera intends to leave the Yankees?

Proctor they could of thrown Farnsworth in on that deal with LA, and now it is almost certain that Mo goes on the list of free agents.

I hate to say this but Rivera is getting old, and can't close forever. One day a new closer will be needed, so maybe next year is the time. Rivera has been kind of erratic this year also.

Anyone will be erratic if he only pitches once every week or two....

I know they are toying at grooming Chamberlain into the next closer but there are a lot of concerns about his mechanics leading to arm troubles, i think its safer to have him as a starter.

Basically, the trade-off as I see it is:

No playoffs this year, maybe no playoffs next year, but by 2009, with the current prospects in place, there *might* be playoffs.

World championship? Hey, that's what we have Yankeeography for, right?

They aren't toying with Chamberlain being a closer.

He will be in the rotation next season with Hughes.

Wang
Pettitte
Moose
Hughes
Chamberlain

the amazing cashman...

red sox: in pretty good shape, solid bullpen, 8 game lead in AL east, yet theo goes out and gets the best RP in the market.

yanks: 8 games behind, terrible bull pen, trade away a RP get nada back into the pen.

the balance of power has been shifting constantly over the last few years in the AL east, all on cashman's watch. theo gets things done. not always everything works out, but he has built a reputation as a results oriented GM.
cashman is a joke.
after last season mr. teflon himself said that the bullpen is a big priority - then how come half a year later we're again in a state of emergency???
and why is no one holding that joke responsible???
he did nothing but DOWNGRADE the bullpen during the off season.
the yanks could have gone after young arms such as chad cordero - a worthy pitcher to throw a minor leaguer for.
like many have said here - we have 16 pitching prospects, i'm sure at least 2 could have been used without sacrifising the future (again, by trading for a YOUNG pitcher).

i wrote before - letting cashman stay on and handle trades and signings is a huge mistake. he is going to cost us rivera, posada and a-rod, just like he lost us pettite 3 years ago (a mistake he admitted to, yet again was not held accountable for).

cashman is by far one of the worst GMs in sports, constructing a 200 million dollars team with no bullpen and no bench.

perhaps frank layden is available?...

Get off the ledge, Gil.

A-Rod will leave only if he wants to leave.

Neither Posada nor Mo is going to wear any other uniform during their careers than Yankee pinstripes.

Viper,

You havet been keeping up with current events have you. Mariano announced he was going to be a Free Agent at the end of the season.

Gil,

Cashman is clueless. Everyone around here bashes Joe but Joe has held together this team that Cashman is destroying and still gotten them to the playoffs. But I fear even he cant save this ship from sinking.

This is a weird Yankees team. Are they built for now or the future? It seems to me that by the time the young pitching is ready, the whole team will need to be blown up and started from scratch. Let's face it when Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Sanchez, Clippard are all actually ready, you will have to replace Jorge, Mariano, Clemens, Moose, Pettitte, Jeter might have to move to a new position, Giambi, Damon, Matsui, Abreu and A-Rod might be gone. I really can't figure out what the Yanks are doing to be honest.

I think Joe has done a great job considering what a lousy start the team had and especially how badly they were pitching in April and May.

The more I think about the Proctor deal, the less sense it makes.

Viper,

You havet been keeping up with current events have you. Mariano announced he was going to be a Free Agent at the end of the season.

=============================

He's a FA and he's testing the market.

Anyone else would do the same thing.

Mo is going nowhere and neither is Posada.

I agree Mariano is staying put...

Not 100% about Posada.

The Angels are lurking out there... deep pockets, flaboyant owner and a need at catcher

Just saying

This deal was flat out stupid. If they're planning on bringing Joba up to setup then that's fine, but you couldn't get a better 1Bman then betemit of the .230 BA? Cashman failing to get Gagne was bad, but allowing him toe the Red Sox who already have a strong back end of the pen? HORRIBLE. I know they want to keep prospects but they needed to get that deal done. Yanks could have cut the game down to 6 innings again with Viscaino/Gagne/Rivera. Now thanks to Cashman the Red Sox have that luxury. The final slap across the Yankees fans face by Cashman was not trading Farnsworth. This was the final straw for Cashman. Fire this clueless hack.

BETAMIN IS NOT A 1ST BASEMAN!!!! HE HAS NOT PLAYED THERE THE LAST TWO YEARS AT LEAST.

This is an upgrade for the bench. It was either him or Wiggington. Betamin is 25 years old- case closed.

Viper,

I heard everyone garranteeing earlier in the year that Mo was never going to test the FA market. You may even have been one of them. So I have no faith in this GM doing the right thing. Posada is a goner too. I think as much as he loves being a Yankee he has had it with the direction of the organization. I think he wants a clean start . Plus Cashman would probably screw up his negotiations anyway.

Maybe the Yankees ARE going on a youth movement!

Who knows?
Maybe Cashman has a plan. Maybe he's saying "Screw going all in this year... we have a chance to build for '08, '09 and '10."

Maybe he sees something is Wilson Betemit (how DO you spell his name?) that the Braves and Dodgers didn't see.

Who knows?

Maybe midway through the 2009 season when the Yankees have a 10 game lead on the Devil Rays and my boys are in the cellar, and all the young pitchers are flame throwers and Betimet (is that right?) is the starting first baseman in the All Star game... people will look back to this trading deadline and say "Thank GOD the Yankees didn't deal those players."

I'm not ready to hang Cashman yet... as I said on the other thread, the Mariners and Indians and Tigers and Angels didn't exactly make earth shaking moves.

The Yankees are as much a playoff contender as any of them.

All in all, a dumb move. Cashman has downgraded the bullpen, on the hope that Chamberlain comes in and performs better than Proctor or anyone who's in there right now. Who knows how that can go? Proctor hasn't always been great, but he's been solid. He's had some bad stretches this season, but his ERA is still under 3.81 and an ERA under 3 in July. Last season it was around 3.4 at the end of the season. Not too far off. The trade has weakened the bullpen significantly. Even if Joba comes up and is the next Zumaya (minus the injury), the bullpen is still better with Proctor in there.
As far as Betemit goes, I think he's our fifth first baseman this year? What happens to the roster when Mienkiewicz and Giambi come back? Andy Phillips is batting over .300 and you're gonna send him down? I can't figure out

Cashman deserves alot of credit for standing firm today in the face of what's likely to be very unpopular amongst restless new yorkers. People on this board are acting like we're one Gagne away from winning a championship. Prediction, Chamberlain will give us about what Gagne gives the Sux without costing us anything, and years from now this no trade (like the no trade of Rivera) will be praised. It's also my guess that there was no market for worthless at all. For anyone who has seen him pitch, that's very believable.

The team that improved themselves the most at the deadline...the Yankees, because they will be adding the best starting pitcher and second best reliever to their roster.

And also, I agree, Posada and Mo aren't going anywhere. They've haven't gotten the money that they could've on the free agent market because they give a discount to the Yankees. Both need to stay and will, but we'll be paying full price for it. And also, if Posada leaves, who've gonna replace him? The Tigers are gonna keep Pudge and Jose Molina will not be the opening day catcher next year

JimA,

Hughes, Chamberlain and Kennedy are ready NOW. Clippard, Horne and the rest aren't far away. The Yankees also have two really good outfielders about to make the jump to AA (probably before the year is out), Jose Tabata and Austin Jackson.

You also have to hope there are some fast movers in the above-slot kids they drafted this year.

And their pitching depth means they can trade for position players.

The Yankees are set up to win now and in the future. Some of the main parts here -- Jeter, A-Rod (if he stays), Cano, Melky -- aren't that old. So with the pitching coming this year and next, and some actual position-player prospects developing, the Yankees are in good shape both long and short term.

Farnsworth can be dealt at anytime. Does anyone but his mother think he will not pass thru waivers? If claimed, unlikely as Steve Phillips is at ESPN, he and his contract are gone.

MZ,

The problem with your justification is that the deal was for Kennedy not Joba. So what Joba does is irrelevant to the assessment. Kennedy is not even considered for this year. What he does at AAA is what get compared to Gagne's performance at Boston. Last time I checked the Scranton wins dont count up here. That Yankees improved themselves the most garbage sounds like one of Cashmans guys kissing his butt. Someone needs to tell the emperor he has no clothes.

worthless will be gone. My guess is that Cash was working on other trades and this wasn't a priority. It will be shortly.

Craig,

Havent you gotten it. Nobody wants him. Even for free they would still have to pitch him. Who wants that?

Mike B,

I guess because you say so. Have you asked the players how they feel about that?

Just wanted to point out what a class act Proctor is. Good luck in LA. You were a warrior here for us. His parting words:

"I hate leaving here," said Proctor, who cleaned out his Yankee Stadium locker before the team's game against the Chicago White Sox. "It's a great organization and you hate that it's come to this, but Betemit's a good player, and hopefully he can help the team here. On the flip side, I hope I can go [to Los Angeles] and fill a major role

I can't believe so many people are concerned about Gagne. Do you really think we should have traded top prospects for a guy who didn't pitch the last 2 years? The guy is always 1 pitch from having his career end.No way we should have done that. Chamberlain will have a bigger impact that Gagne in Boston. He is our Papelbon. he will be the next closer for us. rivera will be resigned because the Yanks want him and he doesn't want to leave. he will go they FA to see hwta his value is and the Yanks will pay him for 3 more years. Chamberlain will be better than Proctor this year. We are well stocked in pitching prospects but not in everday players other than Gardner in AA and Tabata in A. We needed to add young talent to the core begun by Cano and Cabrera. This is why Betemit is a good risk. He is only 25, is a switch hitter and reminds me of Melky with more power. Play him everyday and he will hit. He has only had 100+ AB's this year and no way you can expect anyone to get in a groove. See Melky at the start of this year compared to how he has done since playing every day. We need a 3B prospect ready for MLB because AROD is gone. Probably wearing an Angels T under his uniform already. Does it not worry you that the first time he has put pressure on himself this year he has gone into a funk. It may take him 2 weeks to hit 500. He will do the same in the postseason whenever that happens. let someone else pay him 30 Mill and not be able to surround him for long with other top players. We are gonna be Ok. Chamberlain will be an improvement over proctor, Molina is an upgrade over Nieves and Hughes will be an upgrade over Igawa. Giambi will be back, Betemit will help, we will be OK.

If Mo or Posada enter free agency the Yanks should cut the cord and wave goodbye. Same with A-Rod when,(if,haha) he opts out. Let the overpriced OLD guys walk.

Cashman didn't want to part with his youth for a rental of Gagne, a SMART decision. Gagne is an injury waiting to happen.

I don't get the Proctor deal. Why do we need another utility guy? We have Phillips (who will lose first base when Giambi gets back), and Cairo.

And Joe has, once again destroyed our bullpen by stupidly overusing it. I really want Cashman to keep the young guys down at AAA and let Joe use what he's got and let this season go. No playoffs and a quick firing of Clueless Joe when the season ends.

You could be right, RT.
Joba could be Papelbon/K-Rod/Jenks/Wainright for the Yanks.

I still think the Yanks are better off cutting Farnsworth than having him pitch. It will be like pulling a bad tooth with this team.

MichaelZ might indeed be on to something if the pitching prospects prosper a la the Yanks pitching in the 1990s.

Hell if 3 decent pitchers come out of the haul, then Cashman will praised the same way Stick Michael was for holding onto Pettite and Rivera

Can someone explain to me how this, in any way, looks like a team that's bound for the playoffs?

The bullpen is now one of the worst in the American League, save for Mariano. And Mariano just saw the door slam on a bunch of save opportunities now that there's no - - and I mean no - - setup talent.

I still have about $40 worth of payments to Cablevision for the YES Network for the rest of the season. I feel like Cashman just picked my pocket.

I don't agree Cross777

First of all A-Rod isn't old. This isnt the Giants resigning Bonds because there is no other reason to go to the ballpark.

This is a guy who is only 31 years old and probably has 6 or 7 MVP calliber seasons left in him.

(Keep in mind he will eventually be a 1B when his 3B legs betray him.)

Hell, he's a cinch for 3,000 hits and 700 home runs if he avoids injury and despite his post season failures (Mike Schmidt had a lot of playoff flops as well) he is one of the few difference makers offensively.

The Yankees should try to keep him the same reason why I was so happy to see the Red Sox NOT trade Manny Ramirez.

And (this coming from a Sox fan and classic Manny lover) A-Rod is at the very least twice the player that Manny is.

If money is no option, then the Yanks have to try and keep him... even after he files for free agency.

Posada and Rivera, loyalty aside, will be harder calls.

Posada is 35 and that's around when catchers start to slow down.

Rivera is 37 and even the greats (Sutter, Eckersley, Gossage, Fingers) started slowing down around then.

I'm not saying don't resign them, but A-Rod could and should get a 6 or 7 year deal.

The other two should get 2-3 year deals.

Loyalty is wonderful, but you've already got 11+ seasons out of Posada and 13 years out of Rivera.

People questioned the Sox loyalty after letting Pedro and Damon walk... and it still makes my teeth grind to see Pedro in another uniform.

But in the end, with their injuries, it turned out to be the cold hearted right thing to do long term.

Again, try to bring all three back... but don't go overboard. Unless you want more Giambi/Kevin Brown/Pavano unmovable contracts hanging over your head.

Yes, it was a crazy day and the Yankees did not make any moves which appear to enhance their chances of making the playoffs. Proctor in my estimation was a non issue in the bullpen. He as Farnsworth has location problems and was hit often and hard.

Forest Gump would say " it is what it is." I will sit in front of the TV and watch my Yankees attempt to get it done. Maybe Farnsworth will find magic in the bottle and pitch the way he's supposed to. Maybe the callups from Scranton will be the magic for the bullpen. Hughes and Joba may make the old stadium rock again with playoff excitement. I'm a Yankee fan and will root for whoever wears the uniform. Some I know will fail and some will succeed. This is what its about being a fan.

Cashman obviously has the backing of the front office. Their is a plan and like all plans follow until it turns bad.

Lets Go Yanks.

Those of you slamming this trade please consider a few things:

1. Proctor is not the same pitcher he was last season. His fastball has straightened out (again) and he's unable to get his offspeed stuff over for strikes leading to a lot of home runs.

2. The Yankee bench is TERRIBLE and while they lack position players in the system they have numerous hard throwing right handed pitchers. We all agree that the bull pen has been awful this season; if his best quality is that he is better than Farnsworth and Bruney that is not reason enough to keep him.

3. Proctor is not exactly young - he's 30 and has had exactly 1 good season (last year)

As for Gagne - it really doesn't bother me - if the Red Sox want to give up three young players for 60 days of Eric Gagne - good for them. I for one would rather keep the prospects than trade them for a player who stands ZERO chance of staying around. Gagne wants to be a closer - that's not happening in either Boston or New York.

Ed,

this is coming from Red Sox fan Sully...

I think the Yankees are making the playoffs.

The Indians didn't improve
The Tigers didn't improve
The Mariners didn't improve
The Angels didn't improve

Beat the tar out of the lousy teams and hold your own against the good team and you should finish ahead of Cleveland.

They are Sabathia and Carmona and then pray for a monsoon

And their bullpen is junk.

The M's are a 85-88 win team.

90 wins could make the playoffs.
Go 34-23 (a .596 clip) and you get 90 wins.

Not unreasonable.
Not "need to win .750 the rest of the way" silly.

It's possible.
They have to do it... but yeah... this team could very well be in the playoffs this year.

(I wonder how Cashman will twist this one around against me)

Haven't a lot of you been complaining all season about the Yanks letting the kids play instead of buying and trading for players on the downside of their careers?

Well, it looks like that's exactly what is now going to happen.

The non-moves today make is opening the door for the kids:

*Joba Chamberlain

*Edwar Ramirez

*Ross Ohlendorf

*Chris Britton

*Jeff Karstens

Can't have it both ways.

Fair enough Chip.

This was clearly a move for THIS year.

As for Betimet, I don't trust players who have been given lots of opportunities and blew it each time.

(see also Farnsworth, Kyle)

I agree Viper.

I did think Gagne was a smart move for this year, but I think the Yankees are playing this October

Alright, just got home and saw the news...

Look the Gagne deal doesn't directly effect us. We haven't been shooting for the division since the third week of the season.

Like Sully said, no other contenders in the AL made vast improvements. I'm a little suprised that Farnsworth couldn't be given away. The dude is a clubhouse cancer and you can tell his teammates hate him.

The Proctor deal? I have faith in management that they know something about his arm strength. Ever since we got him for Robin Ventura, he's steadily improved each year but this year he looks just plain tired.

Kind of like Sturtze did, or Quantrill, or Felix Heredia, or Stanton, or Nelson, or Gordon.

Don't forget...Wilson Betetmit was rated the top prospect in the Braves organization for two years and they're known for producing good youth. The kid can play the whole infield and isn't a terrible option should Arod walk.

Mariano testing Free Agency? I don't blame him. Cashman flat out insulted him by offering to talk with ARod during the season. A huge fuckup on his part. This guy is one of ten greatest players ever in the greatest organization in sports and you break the rules for a guy who has 2 hits in his last 22 postseason atbats? In the end, he'll resign. He's already said he'd never sign with the Red Sox (although Damon said the same thing about the Yankees). Jorge is a little bit of a guess but I think his relationship with Jeet will keep him in pinstripes. As long as Cashman doesn't insult him any longer.

I actually applaud Cash for holding onto the big three. I wouldn't trade Kennedy for Gagne. I remember Peter Gammons saying before the season that Gagne would never be the same after his injuries. I know he's been pretty good this year but I'll side with the hall of famer and say that he'll break down as soon as Francona starts to use him like Okajima.

As far as the Sox go? Boy, they will be tough. I think I would have bet the house on them had they gotten Dye to come of the bench.

I have seen Joba pitch on Tv twice and he looks like he's in another league. I don't know about the kid's makeup or arm troubles but I do know that he could be this years Bobby Jenks if given a chance.

Phil has given up like 2 runs in 3 starts in AAA.

Let's take a step from the ledge and just play baseball.

Sully,
Wow,you surprise me...You are sticking to the facts.
No clueless rhetoric...You know your baseball but more importantly you have insight about how the game is played.
We clash when you use this knowledge to jerk people around.

Oh and one more thing...

About next year...

You all know how I feel about ARod. I've said often enough that he's an incredible talent, but a chemistry killer and playoff dog. I would love to see him walk and would even love it more if he went to Boston and fucked up their clubhouse.

Say they don't pay him his $30 million and spend it on Zambrano.

Think about this rotation:

Wang (28)
Zambrano (27)
Pettite (35)
Hughes (21)
Chamberlain (22)
Moose (38)

Now that would win some games.

For all yous who are pissed we didn't trade Joba or Kennedy...

The hottest prospects in ALL OF BASEBALL per BaseballAmerica.com:

1. Joba Chamberlain, Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (Yankees)

So what if 14 four-year college pitchers were taken ahead of him in the 2006 draft? Brandon Morrow, Andrew Miller and Tim Lincecum already are in the big leagues, but Chamberlain and fellow Yankee draftee Ian Kennedy have made it to Triple-A in their first pro seasons. That Chamberlain struck out 10--while yielding no runs on four hits in five innings--was icing on the cake.

The 21-year-old, who spent the first month of the season in extended spring training rehabbing a strained hamstring, has gone 9-2, 2.56 in 15 starts over three levels this season. More impressive is his minor league-leading 13.34 strikeouts per nine innings--against just 2.88 walks per nine.

With his dominance too difficult to ignore, the Yankees announced their tentative plans over the weekend to shift Chamberlain to the SWB Yanks' bullpen, likely with an eye toward a big league callup in August.

5. Ian Kennedy, rhp, Triple-A Scranton/Wilkes-Barre (Yankees)

As good as Chamberlain has been this season, Kennedy, who was taken 20 spots ahead of Joba in 2006, has performed just a little better. Well, OK, a lot better. Over the same three levels as Chamberlain, Kennedy, 22, has gone 11-2, 1.76 with 135-41 K-BB in 118 innings. Opponents are hitting a mere .171 off him. In his first Triple-A start, Kennedy pitched six scoreless innings, striking out six and walking two.

By the way, they said they would have put Phil Hughes at number 1 but because he's on the Major League DL, he's ineligible.

Fellas, that would've been three starting pitchers in the top 6. You just don't trade talent like that for relievers who have spent half of the past three seasons on the DL.

RT,

Good comments. But...

where is Betemit going to play? He's not a 1B by trade and the last thing that the Yanks need now is another "project". He helps the bench granted, but he flopped as an everyday player in both Atlanta and LA. We shall see.

As far as Gagne goes, he helps the Red Sox. They now have a 7th, 8th and 9th of Okijima, Gagne and Papelbon. If Papelbon is losing velocity like some say (but I don't believe), then gagne can close on occasion.
Chamberlain will be in the rotation next year. he will not be closing.

Is it me or has Damon broken about 30 dozen bats this year?

Cn you guys imagine how much Farnsy is gonna get booed if he doesn't step it up?

Good point, Chuckie.

Cashman made the right move by not trading the kids away.

Bunting Bobby
AAAABBBRRREEEEUUUUU!!!!!!

Watch what A-Rod does when he's at bat. When he bounces the bat off of his shoulder like he's doing now, he has a $hitty at bat. He did that all of last year.
When he holds the bat pretty steady, he gets good swings.

I wish that he would just get this 500 HR crap over with. Once he does, he's going on a tear!!!

Remember: you all read that here first!!!

Rod-zilla!!

Your right I didn't mean A-Rod was old. But if he opts out, the Yanks would lose the Texas money. Sign him to an extension - Yes, but if he opts they have to let him go.

Kay brought up a valid point on the radio today, The Yankees have the highest payroll by about %50 million plus the L-Tax and then an $800 million dollar stadium to build. There has to be a limit on there spending and keeping the youth and letting the age walk, is just Cashman being smart.

Too late to trade Mussina?!?!?

He's done, washed up, a 5th starter at best!

Baileywalk: I hope you're right and I guess we're about to find out about Hughes and Chamberlain being ready now. I am still a bit skeptical because Hughes hasn't pitched many innings as the Yanks have babied him thus far, his injury may have actually been a good thing for him this year. Now he can throw (hopefully) through October without worrying about his innings pitched. Chamberlain? we'll see. Tabata and Austin are still very, very young but OF's never worry me because you can always find a FA or get one in a trade.
Lots of if's right now, but IF half of them can be positives, the Yanks will be okay.

Test.

Sorry the page is C(conversation)-blocking me

Hal Steinbrenner thinks Cashman is doing a good job. This is what we have to look forward to????

god bless america

watch out for ninjas.goodnight.

watch out for ninjas.goodnight.