On the Yankees beat

Any chance Torre uses what ever starter has his throw day to finish up that game?

Damn it Kat!!

YOU ARE C-BLOCKING ME!!

When i say "C BLOCKING" I mean "COnversation Blocking..."

Every time I try to get some answers from my fellow blogedeurs you keep posting a new thread!!!

THIS IS YOUR LAST WARNING

I'm hearing Tex is now extremely likely to be traded by the 31st. I'm sure before he is dealt, Cashman will get the right of "final refusal". At that "moment of truth", Cashman is going to make a decision that will impact the Yankee chances to win the championship this year, and their future in general. I'd love to know how torn he is, and the thought process employed.

I wouldn't trade for Tex because Boras is his agent. Boras will have control of A-Rod and Tex, too much for the Yankees to deal with.

Cashman won't be torn at all if trading Chamberlain or Hughes is the only way to get Teixeira.

He's not coming here. I'll be glad when the deadline passes so we don't have to hear this crap anymore.

Viper - I agree, there's no debate at all. If the conversation is Hughes or Chamberlain for Tex then the conversation will end.

I was listening to the game last night and at one point Suzyn Waldman was saying how she spoke to a few scouts watching the Yankees and they all said the same thing. Hughes is great, Chamberlain is even better. You don't trade those guys, ever. Especially not for a 1st baseman that the team doesn't need and can get in a couple of years anyway.

I'm with Viper!

Teixeira may be a fine fellow and a good player but at this point I am sick of the sight of his name!

Not that I begrudge those who spend their days endlessly repeating the same four comments about him. Just that it's a bit timeconsuming having to scroll through entire threads to find some other topic... ;-)

Abreu 07 and 06 after 98 games.
375 AB 71 R 103 Hits 21 2B 8 HR 59 RBI .275 Ave.
339 AB 61 R 94 Hits 25 2B 8 HR 65 RBI .277 AVE.

History repeatin'?

DIANE

What topic do you have in mind?

Question why would Chicago be willing to trade Garland ?Outside of shedding contract there is no reason to trade him.

Cashman better not trade Hughes or Joba for Tex.

What the hell do we do with Giambi, Dougie, and phillips then?

Does not make any sense to get Tex when our offense is already one of the best out there.

How bad are illegal mexicans in your area?

Around Dallas I'd give it a 9/10

My Issue is they're taking jobs away from legal citizens and they don't pay taxes. That's the issue.

Have no fear

JULY.........2005 (17-9) 2006 (16-9) 2007 (16-6 so far)

AUGUST...2005 (19-10) 2006 (18-12) 2007 ( ? )

SEPT........2005 ( 20-10 ) 2006 (16-13 ) 2007 ( ? )

Over the last few seasons we're averaging a 53 & 32 record. So it we follow this pattern we'll finish at 90-72. I don't think this will be enough to win the division but it should be enough for the wild card. GO YANKEES!

I think the White Sox might take a look at their team and think "We probably peaked in 2005 had a good shot in 2006 but missed the playoffs and probably won't get back there with this bunch. So why not start the youth movement now."

I'm guessing they are seeing what they can get for Garland just like they tried to see what they could get for Buehrle (sp?) before realizing it wasn't worth the trade.

I'm guessing they'd deal Dye, Contreras, Vasquez and Konerko for a good young player each... I think Dye would be a nice plan B for a team in need of an outfielder.

Contreras is 78 years old but teamed up with El Duque again might be a nice fit in Queens. Vasquez is and always has been overrated... but I'm sure a team would bite.

Konerko would probably be a nice fit with the Yankees, but if I were the Yankees (and I'm not) I'd focus on a reliever and a starter before diddling with firstbase

Cashman isn't going to trade his best pitching prospects.

Logically speaking, it wouldn't make any sense because he has invested a lot of effort the last couple of years to stockpile the farm with young arms.

Does anyone think Cashman is just going to do a complete 180 and now trade away his best young guns?

No chance in hell -- Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy are going nowhere.

Hey guys,

So say, we get Hughes back in a week and he pitches his way to #3 or #4 in the rotation.

We bring Joba up as a starter and he pitches well enough to be a solid 5th starter.

Why not move Clemens to the bullpen???? He has trouble pitching past the 6th inning anyway, which in turn hurts our bullpen.

Why not utilize him every few days out of the bullpen?

ruse,

There are lots of good topics! I especially like the info you bring about our minor leaguers, the Archangel's indignant wit, the Bomber's inside-the-Bronx take, Chip's analyses including updates on players from teams I don't follow, Lucy's sparring with the barbarians, Nudge's Queens-eye-viewpoint, and the lamentably absent Casual's pleasingly acerbic RSNation views, Roy's quotation marks, Rick's sometimes vengeful scorekeeping... that's just off the top of my head -- I know I'm leaving out four or five other favorites, but perhaps they'll forgive me.

Anon, I think you are on the wrong Blog

ruse -

I think the White Sox want to clear a couple of rotation spots - one for Gio Gonzalez and one for a run at Zambrano this winter.

I also get the impression they're having buyer's remorse on Garland

Clemens pitched 7 innings in his last start and 8 innings in 2 other starts.He is the Yanks 2nd best starting pitcher.

Currently the offense looks good because we are playing "punching bags". Once we start playing teams that are contending for that "wild card" spot, and facing pitchers like CC, Santana, King Felix, etc., this offensive outburst will be a faint memory. Just don't "whine" if we "pass" on Tex, and we are scoring 2-3 runs per game down the stretch, and Abreu becomes the "whipping boy" once again.

Ruse,

Out of 9 starts he has not made it past the 6th inning in 6 of them.

Pettitte is our work horse #2 pitcher. Our offense has not supported him in 9 of his games so his record does not show it.

I am just saying if we can not get any bullpen help. Clemens would be a better option then trying to train a rookie into the position (Joba, Kennedy)

Clemens would clearly be able to adapt easier, and we need to build Joba and Kennedy into starting positions for the next few years.

McCarthy, there is a better chance Liv Tyler becomes my mistress than Clemens going to the pen.

They aren't paying him the biggest (albeit pro rated) contract in baseball history to be a set up man.

You knew when you resigned him that he was going to be usually a 6 inning pitcher. It was done to make a splash when the team was floundering. Remember on May 6th when he made his appearance in Steinbrenner's luxury box, the Yankees were whopping 5 1/2 games back.

Now the Yankees have stormed back and are now 7 1/2 games out.

And what HASN'T changed? The middle relief.

I think there is a lot of assumptions that Hughes (who is tied with Tyler Clippard for good starts) and Joba (who is tied with me for good starts) can step right in and force the best major league pitcher since Tom Seaver to the bullpen.

Wang, Pettite and Clemens are in the rotation. Sadly for you guys so are Mussina and Igawa.

Not 100% sure why trading for Garland is a bad idea.

But at the deadline, you guys should stop dicking around about a first baseman or outfielder and focus on at least one starting pitcher and one relief pitcher.

My thoughts

Roy,

I see what your saying but I do not think this offense is just because we are playing awful teams.

Cano was bound to rebound.
Matsui is finally looking like the old Matsui before his injuries.
Bobby Abreu is a lifetime 300 hitter.
Having Melky play center has given Damon a chance to rest and now he can get back on his usual hitting track.

What would the morning be without my cup of Joe and Roy talking about the Yanks acquiring Tex. You never know if it's posturing, so I won't say it's a 100% lock, but the buzz is that the Yanks are out of the Tex sweepstakes, just as many of us have been saying for weeks now. Read it and weep, Tex will be in a Braves uni by next Tuesday (with Salty and others going the other way). At least after Tuesday, the broken record that is Roy Storing will be singing a new song (hopefully):

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/25/sports/baseball/25pins.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=sports&adxnnlx=1185379959-9bHlv9GGHVqRl/MroXc8Ng

Sully,

I agree we need to fix our relief and maybe even grab a starting pitcher.

But I do not see either one of those things happening. So we look to our high prospects to fill the gaps.

There is nothing wrong with beating up on the crappy teams. That's what a playoff contender is SUPPOSED to do!

Remember when the Yanks got whipped recently by the Rockies, Giants and Orioles? Other than those being rough losses, the lamenting came about because these were games the Yankees were SUPPOSED to win.

No shame in beating the tar out of Tampa Bay and Kansas City. The games you lose to them are the games you look back on at the end of the year and think "How the f--- did we lose THAT game?"

And sometimes it takes facing AAA pitching like they have in TB and KC for players like Matsui, Cano and Abreu to kick start their stroke and regain their confidence.

Both the Yankees and my boys are doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing... winning games and winning series. Granted, Cleveland is a smidge tougher than Kansas City... but they are still games that need to be won.

Meche vs. Mussina should be interesting. An actual major league quality starting pitcher will be facing the Yankees after 5 straight games of minor leaguers wearing major league uniforms. Will be interesting to see if Cano, Matsui et al can hit him the way they hit Elarton (aka The 15th caller)

Beckett and Carmona tonight should be another good pitching match up after the great Dice-K vs. CC 1-0 duel last night.

And for those BC bashers, the news is that Randy Johnson might be done pitching for good. BC deserves credit. Vizcaino is very serviceable and Ohlendorf is at least a future option as a fifth starter. The Diamondbacks got fleeced!

Cashman does deserve a tip of the hat for that.

I wonder how much the D'Backs really thought they were going to get out of him. But I'm sure they can have a retirement celebration that is actually celebratory... unlike what would happen in the Bronx.

"Let's hear it for the supposed ace pitcher who couldn't get a playoff win even after we scored 6 runs for him!"

"2nd verse, same as the 1st". If the Braves are after TEX, and willing to part with Salty, that speaks volumes as to his value to a team. TEX helps tremendously this season, and with the departure of A-OPT, is a proven "corner stone" for the future. Chamberlain is a promising "maybe".

You guys are "trashing" Randy just like you did Sheff. Both did their absolute best, and played hurt. What more can you ask out of a player?

Sully: if they can hold their own against the Beckett's, Matsusaka's and Schilling's then we have a shot at it, tonight. They have done well in 2006/2007.

Remember what Casey Stengel said years ago: "Beat up on the bad teams and play .500 against the good ones".
This is exactly what the Yanks are doing now and hopefully, they can win 1 out of the last 2 in KC.

I think that the Yanks should stand pat at the deadline. Maybe Mo can help Farnsworth out like he's helped Vizciano out. If the Yanks can get Farnsworth on the right track, that will be some 7th, 8th 9th inning rotation out of the pen! The Yanks can make every game from here on out a 6 inning affair.

I assume you mean the Yankees holding their own against BEckett, Dice K and Schilling.

We'll see.

This year in head to head games between the Yanks and Sox, the Red Sox are 5-2 in games started by Beckett, Schilling and Dice K.

Granted, some of that was good run support and some was starting that poor bastard who let up the 4 straight homers. But still, that's halfway to the season series.

Of course Tavarez, 2-0 vs the Yanks, is our secret weapon!

Roy,

You were among the group trashing Cashman (also doing his best) for dealing Unit in the first place. The fact is the guy was a malcontent who didn't want to be here and Cashman managed to find a team willing to trade for him despite his age, his contract, and his injury and give the Yankees back useful players.

Sully -

I'm not concerned with Boston, mostly because beating them is not essential to the Yankee playoff chances. The Red Sox have a very good team but it, like the Yankees, is a flawed team that can be beaten - especially with Papi hurting, DL Drew showing the kind of player everyone in St. Louis, Los Angeles and Atlanta came to know and loathe. Boston has a great 8-9 combination in Okajima and Jonathan "Show me Angry Face" Papelbon and the starters are very good - but as they have shown in playing .500 over the last two months, they aren't the world beaters they looked to be early.

Roy, who is trashing Randy? Re-read my post, my comment is about Cashman making a good trade, I didn't say anthing negative about Randy.

And your logic doesn't follow. Just because the Braves jump in and make a trade (which may or may not be in their best interest) doesn't mean the Yanks should, that's very warped logic.

Let's also keep in mind that Roy also wanted A-Rod traded last off-season for Ervin Santana and whomever else.

Yeah, that would have worked out swimmingly -- especially now that Santana is 5-11, 6.20 ERA on a 1st place team and recently sent down to the Minors.

Roy doesn't have a lot of credibility in this department.

Roy,

As for the Braves trading Salty (potentially) for Tex - that deal makes sense because a) the Braves have a great young catcher in McCann and b) if they keep Salty then, because of McCann, he would have to be moved to first - so instead of playing Salty out of position, they trade him for an actual first baseman.

Trading Chamberlain for Tex would be foolish - not Kazmir for Victor Zambrano foolish, but on the level of Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps at the least

Viper, it just kills me how many Yankee fans want to keep repeating our past mistakes by trading out top prospects for the next "star." Granted Tex is young, but his power numbers have started to dip, his numbers away from Arlington are good but not great, and he's coming off an injury. Where does Roy think our staff is going to come from when Moose, Clemens, and Pettite are gone, a situation we will be facing in the next 2 years? I'm thankful Cash is running the team, and not someone like Roy...

Viper here is how I look at a trade for Tex or Konerko for that matter:

Yankees have a great offense already - if Melky, Damon, Abreu, Cano, and Matsui continue to hit then the team doesn't need offensive production from 1st base and instead can survive with Andy hitting a light .270 - .300 as he is.

If those guys don't hit then the team is sunk whether they have Tex or not - so why bother trading for him?

Yanks currently second in AL with 572 runs scored, on pace to score about 950 runs. Granted many of those runs have been score "run-ups" against weak teams, but still, it's not our greatest weakness. A shaky starting staff and poor middle relief is our biggest problems...

Michael

The thing that should frighten you (and does frighten me) is if the Yankees don't make the playoffs (or get bounced in the first round) and Cash gets the boot, whomever replaces him will have a mandate to win now, which means to keep the job he (or she) might be willing to make those short sighted trades like Chamberlain for Tex.

If you were Atlanta why would you trade a great young prospect for a Boras client who will go the highest bidder after 2008. I can't think of any teams who would do that.

Diane is right in a way ... just trade for Tex and we won't have to write about him and Diane won't have to scroll through the comments.

Get Tex and Gagne, and what's wrong with baseball players from Australia? Graham Lloyd was good. Craig Shipley too! If we're in Asia scouting in Taiwan, Japan and China (home of the blood-soaked butchers of Beijing), why not, unless they are the wrong color or something?

No, we will not trade Huges or Joba for anyone not named Hunter Pence or Johan Santana. Joba is an American Indian and will be a very good and visible role model for American Indians. This is important as they face many struggles.

As for other trades ...

Toby Hall got hit in the neck with a bat.

Catalannato is up to .230 from .200! Woo Hoo!

Joe Kennedy is on the block

What about Marmol on the Cubs or again, Gregg on the Marlins?

What about a package to the Cards for Colby Rasmus?

And we can trade Anonymous, Diane and PTRS to the Toledo Mud Hens Blog for three Bloggers to be named later?

Just kidding!

I love ALL of you!

Sully, you love sick Liv Tyler guru ...

My good friend Andrea the Liv Tyler girl is so great that she cares for a mom with brain cancer.

Alas, you are married so very sorry! No Liv Tyler girl for you! And she is engaged to a great guy, "Matt" whom I have told her to marry for about 15 months now. But I see you are obsessed with Liv Tyler. I know not ONE but TWO Liv clones. It is so strange.

Number of Liv Tyler Clones

Anthony = 2

Sully = 0, none, nada!

Where are Uber Lucy and V.I.P.er today?

Thought for the day:

What if John Maine had to pitch to Chase Wright? What would happen?

And ...

If Hello Kitty! fought Michael Vick to the death, who would win?

Chip, I remember the merry-go-around of the '80's very well and it is a constant fear of mine. I'm a bit surprised that Torre and/or Cash haven't been fired already, so maybe things have changed a bit. I do understand what's at stake though, which only intensifies my desire that we make the playoffs this year. In an unrelated note, does anyone have 1.2 billiion that I can borrow?

CHip-

the ymay be playing 500 but they are stil lin first with a 7 game lead, we have been in the same situation as them and still made it. they do have a good team and better yet BETTER PITCHING we can act yankee bias all we want but in reality the better more consistant team is in first we are playing 600 ball now and is still 7 1/2 games out that right there shows how crappy this team was playing. My concern is that we stay on the same focal point we was on when losing and that is to properly rectify our handicaps with long term solutions

Vast majority of the time, hot prospects never pan out. Especially pitching prospects. The reason most teams will trade pitching prospects for proven major league ability is because of the very limited percentages with pitching prospects. This is not to say that the Yanks should unload their prospects, yet it needs to be considered due to the potential that the prospect is over hyped. It takes at least two full major league seasons to access a true prospect, so to beleive that Chamberlain would come in now and be a consistent 5th starter is fantasy land. Hughes is still an unknown commodity no matter how much hype there is, he needs to perform over the next two seasons to determine if he will reach the level of quality that is being projected. AA and AAA success does not tell a true story at all. Until a young pitcher goes around the league 3-4 times it is impossible to determine the long term success. As an example Pelfrey has nothing to get LH hitters out with. Don't you think the rest of the league has figured this out by now and load lineup with LH when Pelfrey pitches. Will Pelfrey develop something for this weakness, not sure but it would be prudent for the Mets to move him now for some value before it is too late. Not comparing Pelfrey with Hughes, yet whatever weakness exists will be magnified at the MLB level and if adjustments are not made then young pitchers never reach their so-called potential. One ML game does not tell the story with a pitching prospect. When you can get proven ability for potential ability you do it 9 out of 10 times. The big leagues will always be about consistency and the ability to perform at a hogh level with consistency.

Bomber -

I'm not belittling Boston - they have a very good team. But right now beating them isn't the concern. As much as it sickens me to admit, I'm hoping they win tonight - helping the Yankees to close the gap on the Wild Card.

msg4ever:

It is true that not all prospects develop - conventional wisdom is 1 in 3. But in a league where mediocre pitching is vastly overpaid (see Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis, Kris Benson, Carl Pavano) and good pitching almost never hits the free agent market, you have to develop your own pitching. Hughes and Chamberlain haven't just been acceptable in the minors, they have been unbelievable. They have not just progressed from one level to the next, they have dominated at every level. Hughes has impressed seasoned major leaguers with both his stuff and his poise and everything we hear about Chamberlain is that he might be better. You do not include prospects of that caliber in a trade for what amounts to a rental player in Teixeira. His agent will never allow him to sign a long term contract without exploring free agency after next year and so not only would trading for him force the team to surrender one of their best prospects, but it would not ensure that they have him in the fold for more than 18 months.

Mike Pelfry btw will be far better than what he has shown with the Mets thus far. It doesn't always come easily or immediately.

MSG-

Pitching prospect is funny , however on good teams the cushion of success can sometimes help them (or destroy) The example I can picture is andy pettite I seriously beleive that if he was on a losing team he would not have lasted this long. he improved over the years. his biggest defense was run support/

Msg, you are part right and part wrong. It is true that it is difficult to figure out which pitching prospects will "pan out", whatever that means. However, for pitchers, it often takes many guys 3 or 4 years of big league experience to evolve from "throwers" to "pitchers". Under your logic, the Tigers would have been wise to move Bonderman for whatever they could have gotten a few years ago because of his control issues. My guess is that they are pretty glad that they did not. Both the Giants and Phillies could have done the same thing with Cain and Hammels based on their struggles last year. Stories like Justin Verlander are few and far between. Bottom line is that pitchers just take longer to develop and evaluate, this requires patience and sometimes trips back and forth between the bigs and the AAA club.

As for Hughes, while he may struggle at times for the reasons discussed above, he still remains the Yankees best option. They have to try everything at this point to get out of their hole even if it requires gambling some...

There is one trade EVERYONE is overlooking.

One we must make!

There is a pitcher with a 0.00 ERA.

He is on the Cardinals

Scott Spezio is his name. He has a 0.00 ERA. You can look it up.

And if the Yanks get him, you won't need to have a Bobble Head Day for him cause ... well, Ted Lilly knocked his head off already while you all stood and cheered! On a Sunday no less! You crazy, fun loving, gritty (as said by Rudy Julie-Annie) maniacs! I just love your madcap antics!

And Lucy, just because we here in St. Louis are the murder capital of the entire USA, and the US military trains its combat medical teams here cause we are the closest approximation of being a war zone, doesn't mean we aren't good people!

And believe it or not, murders, rapists and gang thugs have feelings too!

It's this type of racist, Joe Torre-inspired archetype lack of sensitivity that makes my blood boil! I am sick of all the namby pamby sulking over Abeer Hamza, Channon Christian and Michael "Wish I was a mailman" Vick's drowned dogs.

Toughen up people!

Can't you see how great things are?!

Go Yankees!

Go Murder Capital!

Go Uber Lucy!

John G.-

Your enthusiasm for Mo helping Farnsworth is a good thought but first he has to be willing to listen.
That's the questionable part of it. Farnsworth doesn't go after hitters and is stuck on using his slider too often. He's a victim of his own stubborness.

Chip,

The problem with the Yankee offense before is that Abreu, Damon, Matsui, and Cano were all struggling horribly bad at the same time -- with A-Rod, Jeter, and Posada providing the offense. That’s why they weren’t scoring runs like they are now.

Of course, this onslaught night after night isn’t going to continue for much longer, but these guys should play better in the 2nd half. The good thing to look forward to in August is A-Rod going on another tear.

Can’t explain why he has been unreal one month and then cooled off considerably the next month, but this team is scoring like mad while he’s going through a cool stretch. Perhaps when the other guys cool off, A-Rod will go on another hitting rampage.

I don’t want Konerko. I would have liked him 5 years ago, but he’s now an aging player on the decline with a contract signed through 2010. Yankee fans often complain about immovable contracts and aging players and Konerko would eventually be on that list.

No thanks.

I agree, michaelz.

Too many Yankee fans don’t learn from past mistakes. They need to hold onto their best pitching prospects and stack the rotation. The reason why this team hasn’t won the WS since 2000 is because of their lack of pitching -- not offense.

It’s no coincidence that this team won during their dynasty because they were throwing out a quality arm every night. Stacking the rotation with quality arms and plugging the lineup with solid bats and guys who can play defense is the way to go.

We are sending a Team of specialist's to St.Louis to remove a bumblimg man from his pc.

Mc Carthy,

So say Hughes comes back and pitches aroung .500 and Joba is brought up and gets rocked 3 out of 4 times he pitches. Then what?

So haw about if Chase Wright come up and pitches 7 consectutive no hitters. Then you can move everyone to the bull pen.

I can keep on making up scenarios and posing hypothetical moves if you wish.

Nudge,

Sure you can keep making up scenarios, and really we don't know more about Hughes and Chamberlain than we know about Wright, except that everyone in the game who is paid to evaluate baseball players at every level predicts that at worst the Yankees are looking at two #2 pitchers in Hughes and Joba.

Trading them for players the team can't control, does not need, and would have to grossly over pay to keep and thus justify trading for, is foolish.

As I said, in a game that overpays mediocre pitching, even if Hughes and Chamberlain turn out to be that, having them at 400K per year is still a plus for the Yankees.

there is no then what Nudge,

Damm man Kofax sucked his first few Years in the Bigs

Detroit Pitcher sucked.

What if Tex Sucks if he came here .

What if Johann Sucked if he came here.

Chase wright still may be good if time was avail. His stats was posted. the fact is i nhis start he finished the inning with a TIE score. we don't know about these players , do we rely all hope on them ? well for many years Yankees had to constantly hear from people like YOU that we had no farm. Well nudge right now we have at least a glimmer in our farm right now if they pan out Great if Not ohh well at least they tried.

BC is trying to stay on rebuild mode and lower payroll s o he can eliminatw the Old complaint of high payroll. if he can field the next bunch of homegrown talent his work is then honored.

Like Mentioned LONNNNNNG AGO the mixture of youth and vets especially vets in their prime is helping the team

Chip,

My boys are 8-5 since the break and Papi taking a seat hasn't hurt us during our 5 game winning streak.

Plus the pitching has improved. I think we're poised for quite a good August especially with a rotation of BEckett, Dice-K, Schilling, Gabbard, Lester and Wakefield (I'm guessing Lester goes to the pen joining Tavarez who is a better reliever than a starter.)

Also with Crisp and Lugo no longer automatic outs, the line up can survive the existence of JD Drew.

Meanwhile I WANT PICTURES OF THOSE LIV TYLER CLONES!!!

I'm married but I'm not dead!

Chip,

Chamberlain went through the entire draft without being selected. What were all those talent evaluators thinking.

Nudge -

They were thinking "Damn this kid is good, but a) he had an arm problem and b) it is going to take a fortune to sign him" They were right.

He did have an arm problem in Nebraska (which has thankfully not been an issue this year) and it did take a fortune to sign him as the Yankees gave him a bonus of over a million to get him under contract.

Rick,

You're right in saying that Farnsworth is stubborn, but I would hope that he would have enough sense to realize that he has "lights out stuff", but something isn't working.
Still, it may be a better option to keep him and hope that SOMEBODY can get through to him.
Probably just shooting in the dark with this though.

I don't think that Hughes is going to be the savior here, but he's a better option than Igawa.

One more note: Drysdale was a prospect; Koufax was a prospect; Ford was a prospect. I could go on and on with this.
The bottom line is that none of us are going to know how good Hughes, Chamberlain, Kennedy, etc are going to be until they're given a legitimate shot.
With all of the problems that we've had with pitching over the last few years, the last thing that I would do is trade pitching, period.

first off the situation was different this year. Yo u talking about PRESSURE desperation that was needed from these kids. I can be certain that almost any youth that was placed in the same situation as these kids thsi year would not have feared any better, CLippard . Wright , Disalvo did win some games not alot hahaha but salvage some . Wright is 1-2 7.5 era who knows maybe that beating could have helped him had he stayed who knows

Also he was an 18th round pick - which is far from early but in a 50 round draft is also not the same as going through "the entire draft without being selected"

Clemens has pitched in to the 6th inning or greater in EVERY START BUT ONE!!!And only twice has he failed to complete 6 innings. he lost a 2-0 game to the Mets and gave up 1 run in 8 vs. the California Angels - a game the Yankees lost. He's not going to the pen.

And Salty is basically expendable in Atlanta. As a catcher, he will be a backup at best (in Atl), so if the Braves can trade him for Tex, it realistically becomes a 1B for 1B switcheroo. Of course the braves would do it - they are in contention. And the Rangers get a young budding superstat in return. That's a no brainer. What's also a no brainer is the Yankees not trading Hughes, Joba or Kennedy for a first baseman.

Sully,

You're married so therefore,

YOU ARE DEAD!!!

(or at least you will be if your wife finds out that you're looking at pictures of Liv Tyler). :-)

Do most Yankee fans expect to be in the playoffs every year? Well this is not reality. We've had a great stretch in spite of ourselves. George's money has put us into trouble with aging players with high price contracts. And some of those trades have stripped us of young dveloping talent.

Now, don't get me wrong bringing Arod on board is one of those trades which I have enjoyed with money from Texas. The Randy Johnson trade never brought the Ace that we expected. We are going to have transitional years between good teams and retooling teams. The great days of '96-'01 pitching talent was available and teams were willing to trade especially tose on the bottom of the totum pole. Cashman's desire to keep prospects identified by his scouts as blue chippers is the way to go. Like a lake restock pitching at every oppt. If we can can develop a core of players such as Jeter, Pettitte, Posada and Mo coupled with some reasonable trades. This is what creates long term winning teams. Not the go for broke approach at winning of a desperate orgainization. Transitional years don't have to be ugly. This good be ours 2007 and we're still in the hunt. By all accounts Cashman is holding on to our chips. I take my hat off to him. I'm sure its not easy with him hanging on a big hook.

I'm sure if Tex. falls into our laps much as Arod did. We won't be like the Red Sox's he'll be wearing the pinstripes but on our terms or reasonable compensation.

No...he had an arm problem...a weight problem.... and was seen as a risk. Having never seen him pitch...just off background...I give him a .....15-25% chance of making it in the bigs with a 2-5% chance of being an impact player.

Who are the ...everyone in the game who is paid to evaluate baseball players at every level ... that you quote...the Yankee media guide?

I have never heard anyone mention Joba Chamberlain until the Yanks got desperate and all of a sudden this guy is cant miss material. Even you guys never mentioned him until,last month. Dont you see a little Cashman press manipulation here? I do.

Nudge,

Wasn't the kid hurt at the time of the draft? Isn't that the reason that the 'talent evaluators' passed on him?

I'll take my chances with this kid.

From June 6 2006

MLB.com currently has the kid listed at six-two, two-thirty. When someone six-two says they're two-thirty, they're probably closer to two-fifty.

Why draft a 22-year-old with a weight problem with the 41st-overall pick? Granted, there are reports that Joba's poise and competitive nature are off the charts.

I would probably like this pick if it was a 3rd-rounder. But, when you're talking "Top 50" in the draft, you try and get something with less risks. The weight thing is a red flag to me. Sure, some people can beat that. But, that's the exception rather than the rule.

Time will tell.

From a Yankee Zealot site.

cannot argue that Nudge got me on that one I know i heard his name in small talk.

Nov 2006 another Yankee Zealot site that provides scouting reports

Health: Chamberlain has two primary health concerns. First, he has weight problems. He used to be downright fat. He weighted over 280 pounds, with some claiming he was closer to 300. He had all sorts of knee and muscle problems throughout his early college career. However, someone must have lit a fire under his fat ass because he lost over 50 pounds and began pitching like an ace. The knee problems have gone away, but his triceps started to act up at the begining of this year. The injury hurt his velocity and his control, and as a result all of his numbers dipped. It was enough to make teams shy away from his top-level stuff and let him fall to the Yankees at 41.

John G.

Agreed.

This is not the same environment as the late 90's when 75% of the teams in the sport acted as a farm system for the other 25%. Good players are being signed early to contracts that erase their arbitration years and carry them into their first few years of free agency as well. The players who do get through are the fatally flawed ones who end up getting grossly overpaid simply by virtue of being the best of a thin, bad market.

In this reality you have to develop your own players and that is doubly true with pitchers. The Yankees have, by all accounts, the best minor league pitching in baseball. Not all of those guys will reach the majors with the Yankees, not all of them will reach the majors in any significant way at all. Finding players out of prospects is more about attrition than planning - but trading away the ones who have shown the most promise early for players you can get later for nothing more than money (which to the Yankees is in almost endless supply) does not make sense.

Why give up a limited resource now when you can get the same result later by using an unlimited resource?

Nudge, other people have heard of chamberlain, witness his appearance in the future stars game. His numbers in the minors and the fact that other teams have scouted him and are asking for him in trades does say something. Guarantee that he will be a top of the rotation ace, hardly, but a pretty nice resume so far....

I have yet to see any glowing scouting info that hasn't come through the Yankee organization to the New York Media.

Michaelz,

Who are your sources? I would live to hear a name of some person that specifically asked for Chjamberlain and what the offer was rather than these generac Cashman/Newsday releases that "there is great interest".

Nudge,

Maybe we'll Joba in a NutriSystem commercial.

Nudge:
From Gammons a year later:
But Chamberlain has now become the talk of the game. The Yanks' second pick in the 2006 draft out of Nebraska has drawn comparisons to a cross between Zumaya and Bobby Jenks as a reliever, and Justin Verlander as a starter. He's 8-1 with 108 strikeouts in 74 2/3 innings between Tampa and Trenton. "He's 95-99 for seven innings as a starter," says one scout. "He has Verlander stuff, but if it fell apart, he'd still be Jonathan Broxton."

From Ken Rosenthal today:
One rival scout thinks Class AAA right-hander Joba Chamberlain could be the Yankees' Jonathan Papelbon, giving them an alternative if they choose not to re-sign closer Mariano Rivera.

The scout probably (surely?) is carried away, and the Yankees are somewhat concerned that Chamberlain's innings will accumulate if they promote him to their bullpen.

Chamberlain, 22, has worked 79 1/3 innings at Class A and AA in his first full season of professional ball before being promoted Tuesday.
____________________

So I guess if you want to compare that stuff then to this information now then you can say that he has improved immensely even from the time he was drafted.

Bruce Bowen, San Antonio Spurs...undrafted. Rey Ordonez, undrafted. Pedro Lopez, undrafted. Melvin Mora, undrafted.

Joba Chamberlain was the Yankees 2nd pick in the 2006 first-year player draft.

Nudge, I just gave you two scouting reports that did not come from the Yankees or NY Media - Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus will give you more if you wish.

LOL. Well, Nudge, maybe if you read something other than Yankees-oriented literature and frequented non-Yankees sites, you'd see loads of info on our farm system. I'm only joking with you, Nudgakins. I'm going to see if I can find some outside information on our farm system.

I was about to say I'll bet Chip can come up with something, and sure enough he did. Way to go, Chip.

John G.

The thing that concerns "those who are paid money to evaluate players" is that his weight is all over the map when its reported. The high was 290 but the thinking was 320. That came from scouts inc. They list him at 6' 2" 230 and if you have seen him you know if he is 230 he is 250. Since they claimed he lost 60 pounds then do the math. The history of Fat pitchers is not rosy.

Who knows? Chamberlain may turn out to be a diamond in the rough.

I think that bringing him up to be the 8th inning guy is a good move. He's a better option than what's out there on the trade market.

There's history to this line of thinking.
The "Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim" brought up Rodriguez in 2002 for their stretch drive and that worked out.
Papelbon was suppose to be a starter. We all know how good he is.
Why can't the Yanks catch lightning in a bottle with Chamberlain?

By the way the term "Fat" came from the scouting report. Not heavy or bulky or weight problem...FAT.

I have only seen him once on television - that was the Future's Game this year - he's a big boy, about the same size as Clemens - but he's not in Bartolo Colon, Sidney Ponson territory.

Also I think David Wells, and CC Sabathia and Curt Schilling would have a bone to pick with you about the track record of hefty pitchers.

Nudge are you fatophobe?

Nudge, I think this is a great assignment for our regulars on this forum. How many of you can come up with positive information concerning our farm system emanating from sources who are not Yankee-centric.

NUDGE

ARE YOU THAT GUY IN THOSE
"BOWFLEX" COMMERCIALS?

OH MY GOD DO YOU HAVE A BOWFLEX BODY?

Nudge,

I can't sit here and tell you that the weight won't be a problem. I just don't know.
But if this kid is as good as some are saying he is or can be, then isn't it worth a shot?
It has to say something for this kid if his name keeps coming up in trade talks, doesn't it?

Gee I hope this poor fat guy is not as bad a pitcher as David Wells!!!

Or Fernando Valenzuela!

Nudge,

I remeber a fat guy named Gaylord Perry. He pitched pretty well (Vasiline Included)!

For the record:

When Baseball America rated prospects before the season started and gave out their Top 100 Joba was ranked around 90 - after the All-Star game they reposted the newest rankings - factoring in performance and removing players who had been promoted to the majors - Joba is ranked 9 overall. Each player in the top 25 got a one line report, Chamberlain's is "Some of the best pure stuff in the minors with an advanced approach."

BBA is not a Yankee site, and more often than not they are MORE critical of Yankee prospects than other sites out there.

Nudge, you seem so certain that Chamberlain will be a bust, I am curious as to what you are basing that on other than year old after draft reports that he's too fat?

It will be horrible if he has to be fitted with a 'chubby' uni, like the Babe!

CC Sabathia is unproven high risk material if you ask me...

I have two independent sources who have told me that CC is actually 500 hundred pounds and literally needs to be lifted with a crain to the mound every start.

2 other soon to be a disgusting fatbody has beens...Felix Hernandez and Miguel Cabrera I heard they're both closet OREO addicts.

Just last week Cabrera was seen at a Dairy Queen with none other than TAQUERO KOBAYASHI!!!

Phucker,

You're killing me, Man!
LMAO

Is it me or is it 10 times easier to sign free agent hitters than pitchers? Keep every pitching prospect and sign the hitters in the offseason. Make a list of the top free agent pitchers over the past 3-4 seasons and the list of hitters. I think it should strengthen the argument?

The site won't let me copy and paste all the information, but here is a nice rundown of most of the top pitchers in the yankee organization done by baseball america:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/prospects/features/print264326.html

Sources close to Bobby Ray tell me the kid's unis are made by Oklahoma Tent and Awning Company, shipped to Yankee headquarters in plain wrappers.

Here's another one for you, this one from today:

Scott (NY, NY): I'm not a BA subscriber, but I do have a question. Do you think its realistic to say the yankees could have a rotation of Wang, Hughes, Joba, Kennedy, and Olendorf in 2009?

SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:31 PM ET ) I'll give you 4 out of 5. Ohlendorf is going to be a middle reliever.