E-Boland and the Bombers

Kat,
Was Karstens on crutches? Did you give him a women's perspective on the overall unattractiveness of the uni-brow?

Thanks for the update on Hughes.

Sorry Mike, This is a offtopic .Breaking News

Igawa's optioned to Triple Scranton.

Peter's Abraham of Journal News are reporting Igawa's optioned to Triple Scranton.. Sayanora Iron beaver!!

http://yankees.lohudblogs.com/2007/05/07/game-30-mariners-at-yankees/

jt,

I though that I heard Igawa was sent to Trenton?
I heard that on ESPN 1050.

I hope that the Yanks don't rush Hughes back. I want the kid healthy and ready to go for the dog days.

Excellent news re: Igawa, just in time to not spend game time wondering who would get the chop. Others have earned their way ahead of him and they deserve it, but this move may be to his benefit as well. He has not adjusted well and if he is ever to do so he probably needs the kind of help and space to develop that he is more likely to get in the minors. I thought he should have started out there but better late than never.

Correction:
Igawa was sent to Tampa!

KATWOMAN-
Thanks for the Hughes update. Let us know if you hear anything concerning Pavano.

Tampa, Scranton, Siberia -- who cares, as long as he's gone, at least for now.

Diane,

You hit the nail right on the head! Igawa needs to "learn" how to pitch here. I think that if he learns, he can be a big help to us.
He needs to learn the 3 L's: location, Location, LOCATION!

Anyone know who starts in his place on Wednesday against Texas?

Pavano is being sent to the criminal ward at Bellevue Hospital to undergo psychiatric treatment while awaiting trial for grand larceny.

Lucy,
Siberia? That's a little harsh! (hahaha).

Good one!

Mussina pitches Wednesday.

John G, I'm known around here for my biting sarcasm. Satire is my favorite genre.

Thanks Lucy.

By the way; I like the Pavano comment as well.

Any takers on my Pavano bit?

Ha-ha, John, your response beat me to my question.

Remind me not to get you pissed at me!

John, you sound like a great guy. I only get pissed at Yankee-haters -- well, mostly. But I don't hold grudges against Yankees fans for more than a day.

Some news: Joe Torre has been suspended for tonight's game and Don Mattingly will manage. Scott Proctor was handed a four-game penalty, but he is appealing.

wow...

igawa gone to single a... how many guys worth 46mil. is he going to meet there you think?

cashman is starting to own up to his horrendous mistakes: firing that miller guy, saying about pavano "it has clearly not worked out" and now igawa. and getting clemens.
at this rate we might get a real back up catcher soon and maybe even a stronger bench.

Thanks Lucy!
I use to get really mad when someone dissed the Yanks. However, when I moved out of the NY area, I was stuck right in the middle of Angel country when we played them in 2002. Needless to say, they were WAITING FOR ME after they beat us and I just rolled with it. (I even surprised myself!!). It diffused the situation as no one bothered me after that. Now I live in D'Backs country and I can't tell you how many times 2001 is thrown in my face! When we got eliminated by the Tigers last year there was a picture of a tombstone taped to the door in my office with the interlocking NY on it. I laughed at it and left it up for a week (my mourning period!). Don't let it get to you.

It's 1999, at least in the minds of Yankees fans

It should not surprise you that Yankees fans think a rotation that includes Andy Pettitte, Mike Mussina and Roger Clemens will translate into another American League East title and the team's first World Series crown since 2000. After all, this is the same fan base that is rooted in yesteryear. Their calendars are forever affixed to the late 1990s. They seem to forget that it's 2007.

Clemens is riding into the Bronx on a white horse, summoned to save the Yankees from another year where the game's highest payroll buys nothing more than disappointment. Better be careful, Roger, that you don't pull a groin muscle stepping down from the steed.

All fun aside, it is amusing that fans of a team that has a overworked and underperforming bullpen, and soon to be three starting pitchers who are prone to injury (not including the young Chien-Ming Wang, who has already injured a hamstring) suddenly think that the addition of a 44-year-old (going on 45) Clemens will heal all that ails them.

True, Clemens is a much better option than Kei Igawa, Carl Pavano, Jeff Karstens, Darrell Rasner, Chase Wright and even Phil Hughes. And on paper, especially five years ago, a rotation with Pettitte, Mussina and Clemens is formidable. Yet the main factor that Yankees fans conveniently ignore is that the team has no depth in the rotation and the bullpen. Chances are, Pettitte, Mussina and Clemens will all spend time on the disabled list at some point this season, not counting the time that Wang, Pettitte and Mussina have already missed. What will they do then? I think we've already seen it. They will struggle. And what will the Yankees do in June and July when the already weary relievers accumulate more mileage on their arms? There is no doubt that the Yankees will be active at the trading deadline. Will it be too late? Time will tell.

The return of Clemens to New York City makes for great drama. Inevitably, he will get the last laugh. If the Yankees overcome the odds and win a pennant, he will be hailed as a hero. If the Yankees take the direction they are likely headed - watching the playoffs on television - he will have a prorated $28 million in the bank. Clemens in Yankees pinstripes has given Yankees fans hope that the team will resurrect the glory years. Maybe Tino Martinez can dust off his glove and anchor first base, and Paul O'Neill can replace Bobby Abreu in right field.

On Sox and Pinstripes, and across the blogosphere, we can debate all we want. The bottom line will be decided on the field. As I mentioned in my previous post, the Sox have depth. If a starting pitcher or two misses time, there are capable arms to take their places. There is no need to respond to the signing of Clemens, unless the Sox can acquire Todd Helton. Right now, the Sox are 20-10, 5.5 games ahead of the Yankees, who are 14-15, bolstered by a 14-game stretch against pitching-depleted Seattle and Texas. The Yankees record will and should improve with 14 games against those teams. The true test will arrive when this vacation is over.

As long as the Sox continue to get quality starts from the rotation, and effective performances from the bullpen, they will remain in first place. All the history in the world will not change that. So Yankees fans, have your fun. Clemens with his millions, and Red Sox Nation with their AL East title, will enjoy a hearty last laugh.

New records set every day. At 5:53 pm today a new high in pompous bloviation, tomorrow what can await?

Cashman on Kay

payroll about $196 mil with Clemens recently signing

for those of you who care about such nonsense

Wow, I can't believe they sent the Iron Beaver Kei Igawa all the way down to A Ball in Vladivostock (Siberia). It's chilling.

So now what will happen? Trainer's gone. Igawa is gone. Pavano is gone. Now who must go? We need a back up catcher who can hit and the bottom of the order it weak.

Possible move: Trade Chase Wright and Melky to the SF Giants for some pitching. They have Lowry, Cain and Lucencium (spelling) ... maybe we can get an arm.

So now our rotation is

Wang
Clemons
Pettitte
Mussina
Hughes (when he gets back)
Rasner

Good guys in the pen

Henn (wow that sounds like pen ... just like pen. Woo Hoo!)

Bruney

Proctor the Headhunter

Mo

Guys in the Pen who unlike the Mother Henn are not so hot

Farnsworth (more or less)

Michael Meyers (Halloween movies? Same guy?)

Vizciano (Time to go, bro)

Possible moves:

Get Todd Helton, the former Univ. of Tennessee QB (started over Peyton Manning), great hitter ... he's also like this uber- Christian so he can hang out with Andy Pettitte.

Let Josh Phelps catch a bit more. Play Posada at 1B once in a while to give him some rest.

Make a deal with SF Giants as noted ...

Don't let Igawa or Pavano back in the stadium

Did everyone see Shilling dissing Clemens that way? "We don't need him."

Hmmm ...

When Clemens does well we will call him Rajah Clemens.

When he does poorly it will be CLEMONS.

What will be the rotation for 2008? Anyone want to speculate on that?

Will be trade away anymore All Stars like we did with Jake Westbrook or Ted Lilly? If we trade some kids let's make sure they are the right ones.

Either Villone or Kei Igawa (after he's sorted out) or Chase Wright could be another lefty in the Henn Pen. Do we keep Meyers just to get our Ortiz?

John G, that's great!!! I admire your approach, you're certainly an inspiration.

Wooooow, Baseball Messiah and Holy Seer, Jeff Louderbeck-Who???-ButWhoCares? has spoken!!! That's it, guys. Let's pack our bags and call it a season. The prophetic dictum has been handed down from THE SOURCE OF ALL KNOWLEDGE. Anybody here impressed? Nah, I didn't think so (ROFLMFAO).

For historical purposes, the nickname Rajah is reserved for the great Rogers Hornsby. Probably one of the 5 greatest hitters of all time. You wouldnt call someone else the Babe now would you?

Absolutely correct, Nudge, and the Rocket has his own long-established nickname anyway. Both lasting parts of the game.

Wouldn't that be "Rajah's"? Not getting nitpicky or anything but why diss the "S"?

I only say "Rajah" when referring to "The Rocket" because that's how it sounds when Clemens is warming up in the bullpen at Yankee Stadium, all the fans are talking to him, it's "Have a great game Rajah", "Go get 'em Rajah" etc.
I lost my NY accent years ago so it sticks out to me when I hear that stuff.

Thats good Jim! Weird name Rogers, should be a last name but he was actually "The Rajah".

As of I think it was 1924 he held the NL single season record for:

Hits
Singles
Doubles
HR
RBI
Batting Average
Slugging Pcnt

and of course he holds the record that will never be broken I think the .424 batting average. Amazing number of consecutive .300 seasons. Most younger people only remember him from being mentioned in the movie "League of their own" when Tom Hanks says about his no crying in baseball thing about his first manager Rogers Hornsby calling him a walking pile of S**t in front of his parent who had driven 7 hours to see him play.

Amazing, DeSalvo pitches 7 inning 1 run ball, and Kei Igawa who gets paid 46 mil or whatever can't get past the 5th! DeSalvo for president!!

Another nice start by a rookie pitcher, I could get used to this, seven innings, leave with the lead, and out here in YES land we're not sitting here with our heart in our throats from the fifth.

too late, what a horrible call, not farns problem but stll, another blown game.

That call was horrendous. Maybe that ump should be suspended for four games.

gees... if it's not an injury or an igawa special then we need to deal with stupid blind umpires???...
there no way you can blow a call like that, not even close.

That was an absolutely terrible call. He was out by 3feet ! Blew DeSalvo's win in his debut. Mo would have shut them out in the 9th.

gitmo,

if there's one factor in MLB that has absolutely ZERO accountability it's the umps.
you'll see this guy again in the playoffs...

I know... I was being facetious (sp.?). Maybe instead bring in Proctor, have him throw a pickoff to second and plunk him... purpose pitch :)

I should retire! I blow every game!

Or Mo would have just given up a HR ......................

this game was stolen from us! that's just bull.

Good shot, Abreu... stood there watching.

The yankees lost FOR ONE REASON!!!!!! bob abreu was 1 for 5 with 7 men left on. he seriously blows so bad its insane and if he is not moved out of the third spot in the lineup you must be a complete f ing jackass. GET HIM DOWN THE ORDER UNTIL HE CAN HIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm gonna beat the living crap out of that damn umpire. Who's with me???

For the love of God, can Brian Cashman please find a way to dump Kyle Farnsworth? He might be the worst reliever in recent memory for this organization.

I can't stand watching him coming into the game because I know it is the beginning of the end. If we can get a dozen official baseballs for him, consider it a steal.

Jusr flip flop abreu and matsui you dumb cigar smoking jackess. YoU move arod to eigth in the battng order in theplayoffs DO IT NOW!!!!

Waste of DeSalvo's effort + bad umpire call + Mariano who needs work =loss.

I watched Abreu in Tampa. His timing is way off. Come on Joe shake up the order. We can't keep blowing games.

"Quote from Foulkey Reese- A Idiot Redsox Fan from Sosh

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=18544&st=120

"Kay still B*tching about the bad call..........Yankees have NEVER been on the other side of one of those have they?"

Quote- NerdMidnightC

Seriously. I remember last year when the M's got jobbed on several calls at the Stadium. Payback was due.

...And suddenly Putz can't find the strikezone. Hang onto your asses, kids.

Yankees fans can b*tch about the botched call all they want, but it won't change the fact that Rivera gave up that homer.

Six games down!

MidnightC is a dumb Redsox Fan.... Even If Mariano gave gave up homerun called, Its still 2-2 game, That Blind Umpire missed the called.

Why Do Redsox Fans worry about Yankees? It's called Inferiority complex.

If Umpire made bad callled on Redsox Players, they will whine and complain as well. For Example. When Redsox Fans complained about Coco Crisp from Bruney wasn't strike. Coco Crisp throws his bat away in disgust.

Now now now, remember the little kid that stole the World Series for the Yankees by interferring with a ball in play that was going to be caught and eleimate the Yankees from the playoffs?

This and about 100 more like it is the Karma balancing itself. Go easy on the umps its their destiny to balance the force.

Wht are Yankee fans cutting and pasting from Red Sox blogs? I think there some complex to go around for everyone.

But JB it is nice that you are so worried about how worried the Red Sox fans are.

Mirror time!

BTW Bob Abreu SUCKS!!!!!!!!

This loss doesnt have to do with umpires or mo giving up homeruns.

Look at the numbers, Abreu blows ass

they should have won 5-3, joe you muct mve abreu out of the 3 spot in the order, that spot is reserved for the best hitter on the club. Cmon Joe, it is ok to make a move on a veteran. WAKE UP idiot!!!

jeffery meier is who i think im talking about...but in actuallity i dont know what im talking about. if i did, id realize the opposing team was baltimore, and with them being in the A.L., let alone the same east division as the yanks, chances are they wouldn't be in world series. may the force be with you

Nudge, So Redsox got special treatment now by Umps and Good karma going their way?

From Now On, Every bad call from Redsox will not be called by Umpires.

Please, Stop bring Jefffrey Meier debacle when Yankees beat Atlanta Braves in World Series when they're behind 2-0 against Braves.

That Blind Umpire Jerry Davis has Website.

http://www.gerrydavis.com/contact.shtml

If anybody care to contact the guy - or at least his sporting goods store - there is the contact info and the website.

what a disgrace, missed a call by minimum 2 feet....

I sent him an email...

he was to lazy to be in position...

I am very upset by this blatant mistake.....

Farnsworth is not to blame tonight a broken bat infield hit... A runner out by 2 feet but ablown umps call and then the bloop to right.. has anyone ever seen Abreu dive????

doubtful...

Donnie baseball is a clone of clueless Joe. It's bad enough that the guy gets thrown out by three feet but for Donnie baseball to keep his ass glued to the bench and not even question the call is pure BS. This team has no fight,no spirit and no chance unless they start playing with some passion.

I am sad for DeSalvo but at least he didn't get hurt ...

Now, Farnsworth throws really hard ... it was not his fault things went sour

Bigger concern is Mo giving up major bombs ... like in Oakland ... it is scary really ... what is wrong?

Abreu ... he didn't do well in Philly towards the end ... a good person ... but he is not the player he once was, with power ... he got the big money and like George Foster ... then he went into a decline ... who am I to say why? And he is afraid of the wall ... you have to be reckless ... run into the wall if you have to ... pretend Claudia Schiffer is on the other side ...

So for tonight ...

The Yankees Loooose!

The Yankees Loooose!

Tomorrow is another day ... actually here in St. Louis it is 12:08 a.m. so it already is tomorrow.

Today is another day!

Oh, the Rajah thing and the 1924 Statistics ... you people never cease to amaze me?

And where is Diane?

Goodnight Jim A, Nudge, Lucy and the rest of you ... time for the Antman to sleep! Zzzzzz

A one act play, reprised

Clemens to Pavano: "Wow, I thought I had special priviledges with my deal."

Pavano: "Some. Not bad."

Clemens: "I pitch every five days. The other days I don't have to be here."

Pavano: (Yawning)

Clemens: "But you got 40 million and you only have to pitch two game per year?"

Pavano: "Something like that. A one and a two and a three."

Clemens: "Who's your agent? Lawrence Welk?"

Special treatment for Clemens (can't sleep) ...

One of students, Andrea (picture Liv Tyler) has a mother with brain cancer ... up all night, siezures, going to the hospital ... do you think I make allowances for her as she honors her mother?

Robin is a nice African American gal ... taking her auntie to Chicago for chemo treatment for cancer.

Some of these kids come to class in a state of complete exhaustion.

Drew is a nice kid, blonde, polite ... he wanted to go away to Mizzou ... but stayed in St. Louis to care for his mother who has cancer ...

Again, do I give my kids special treatment? You're damned right I do? Why? Cause Robin and Andrea say, "Anthony, give me the grade I deserve. I don't want special treatment ... my life is what it is."

I liken them to real heroic figures ... it is always the really good people who do the best things and act like nothing happened beyond the norm.

As for Clemens, I wonder how sad he will be when he can't milk the cow anymore ... no more fame, no more play one team off the other ... no more retire, get an ovation and come back ... no more beaning Piazza cause he can't win fair and square. In a way Clemens is to be admired. In another way, he is to be pitied. (I am sure he fit right in during his visit to Afghanistan, but would you want him next to you in combat? He's all about Roger while a soldier is all about the man next to him. Or woman, shamed to say).

Abreu looking? Nice. Doug M. way to start the 9th, swinging at the first pitch. Great at bat by Damon. Jeter works the count but hits a week grounder.

Then Abreu gets up. Terrible. How can you stare at strike 3? That's awful.

Anybody notice Arod is not staying back anymore? Him not staying back explains no dingers in 12 games. In that span, he has 3 rbi's and all 3 came in 1 game. He's hitting .266 in that span.

After player of the month for April, so far in May (7 games), he's .333, 0 HR, 3 rbi's.

This isn't a bash, he's still doing very well. I just keep a close on a handful of players.

We are screaming about the ump, but DeSalvo isn't. He's in heaven, because he was told after he came out that he gets another start. He is obviously so full of happiness that there is no room for anything else. It's the best night of his young life, and he is spending no time thinking how it should have been even better.

I'm very proud of and happy for DeSalvo, and I can definitely understand his excitement. He's actually allowed to be thrilled with a game where the Yankees lost but he did fantastic -- at least this one time. After that, he must remember the Yankees' priority is all about winning, nothing else matters. Could you imagine Jeter saying, We lost, but that's okay, I'm thrilled because I got three hits? I'm sure a lot of the players feel inwardly happy when they perform great even though the team loses. They just have to keep it to themselves. DeSalvo will learn that lesson soon enough, but he's got every right to be ecstatic and we are ecstatic for him. I just wish we could have kept him in for at least one more inning. His pitch count was only at 89.

DeSalvo did not say or even imply that the loss was okay or that his doing well was more important than it. Nor did I, and I would be very sorry for anyone to get the false impression from me that that was his position. I was speaking exclusively about the reaction, here and elsewhere, to the 'unfairness' of the ump's taking away what could have been an even more ecstatic experience. Apologies to DeSalvo -- and to Lucy and anyone else here who might have misunderstood my intention.

The Death Certificate on last night's game. Home run by Beltre given up by Mo. But, the secondary causes were many. Hidden with a very good performance by De Salvo who showed some moxy on the mound. 9 hits and two runs, 10 men LOB. Cano and Abreu in hitting fogs of major concerns. Couple this with Arod coming back to earth. Doug M. hitting a solid .214. Mo lacking work because the save situations have not been there. We have a team which is slowly showing signs of waking up but still treading water. Roger or no Roger, they have to play better becuase Roger is no saviour. He's another pitcher in the rotation. Obviously, one to be relied upon. But, the fire must come back. They are playing like a bunch of stoic corporate lawyers with Gucci wallets stuffed with dinero.

I can recall my college coaches advising to play under control but there must be some fire smoltering to reach the heights neccessary to kindle the energy to win.

The umpire wins, the umpire wins, the umpire WIIIIIINS. Again we are foiled by the Evil Umpire. They can be blind, lazy, asleep, partial, prejudiced, irresponsible, spiteful -- whatever they want -- but that's okay because they are totally unaccountable. There's no way Davis accidentally missed that call by three feet standing right there. He supposed to be highly trained and he was supposed to be doing HIS JOB!!! Why can't there be appeals for plays like this, just as they do in hockey? Electronic equipment isn't blind, it can't cheat, and it will keep Evil Umpires honest.

Baseball ceases to be a fair competition when Evil Umpires have autonomous control over games with zero accountability. I don't believe for one second that these guys are totally impartial, since they must love baseball and they must have favorite teams. Yet, there is no such thing as a conflict of interest concerning them.

When the Yankees played the Detroit Tigers in the very last playoff game last year, the commentators laughed at the fact that the home plate umpire lived in Detroit, admitted to being a huge Tigers fan all his life, and that his daughter had posters of the players plastered all over her room. She desperately wanted them to win. And this man was called to officiate an ELIMINATING PLAYOFF game!!! All close calls went to Detroit, in addition to some highly questionable ones. Can MLB be that blind and ignorant or do they think that a competition among Evil Umpires is really what the public wants to see and pay for? Wake the hell up, MLB. Your ignorance is embarrassing.

Oh, no, Diane, please don't get the wrong impression. I understood what you said and I agree with you. DeSalvo's reaction is normal and expected. He wouldn't be human if he didn't delight in his own performance. I was just saying that he can do that now, it's okay, but I just think it's interesting that he can't show those feelings in the future when there's a loss. Of course, he's disappointed in the loss, no doubt, but he has reason to celebrate. Sorry if my message didn't come across like that. Your post was fine, Diane, made lots of sense.

We can't sit here and blame the ump for blowing that call when the Yanks missed many opportunities to score more runs throughout the game. The Yanks have had blown calls go their way and nobody ever complains. Mo is starting to grate on my nerves, if he needs more work he should be doing extra bullpen sessions or something.
Mattingly didn't argue that call because he didn't see the players arguing.
At least the ump admitted the mistake after the game and now he owes the Yanks one, he can save it for September when (hopefully) it will be needed.

Very nice outing by the kid but I'd like to see two or three of those in a row before I get too excited, but he more than held his own.

Lucy, there is an old saying in sports. Don't leave the game in the hands of the umpire, referee, etc. This does work for the most part as games are won and lost by the teams but being totaly impartial is tough and umpires in baseball should have their abilities reviewed periodically by a review board some are plain bad and or getting old or not impartial. But I believe the flavor of the game will be lost with the instant replay much like football which does not always give a clear cut answer.

I know he didn't actually say it, but he did look thrilled and he should be. The umpire couldn't take that away from him, that's for sure.

game analysis

8th inning - i felt farnsworth did very well. a ridicolous blooped dribbler by vidro with a shattered bat for hit 1, then the obvious idiotic ump mistake, then an even more absurd blooper by the catcher to opposite field.
farnsworth was throwing strikes and looking good.

9th inning - throughout his career, mo's cutter was much more effective against lefties because it darts in on their hands, whereas righties get the motion straight to the fat part of the bat. i see him this season trying more and more to challange righties with a regular combo of 2-seam/4-seam fastballs, but the latter lacks movement. i'm sure it'll improve.

abreu - something has to be done. i wrote here several weeks ago they i can start seeing why he was hated in philly, and nothing changed my perception since.
1st at-bat: runners in the corners, 0 outs, he hits a grounder to the pitcher - should have a DP or damon out at home, but batista messed the play and got only one out.
3rd at bat: bases loaded, 2 outs - another weak grounder.
4th at bat: runners in the corners, 1 out, you guessed it - weak grounder to first, runner out at home.
5th at bat: struck out LOOKING to end the game after taking some of the ugliest cuts you'll ever see outside the NL when a pitcher is hitting.
plus, was very late charging to the 8th inning blooper.
for me he is the main culprit for this loss, and others, he's not only not hitting, he can't get the ball in the air. this is way more than a slump.
everyone who knows him says that the reason he was kicked out of philly was that he didn't like being "the guy", handle the pressure of the face of the franchise, thus the yankees offer a great diversion.
however, when you bat third for the yankees, with the amount of base runners they put on, you will be "the guy" on an every game basis, you will come up in clutch situations. and if you can't handle that, you shouldn't be batting 3rd.

Larry, I agree that something would be lost and for what? Which view would they see? YES often shows many different views of plays after which there can STILL be doubts. Different views seem to show 'conclusively' that different calls would have been correct. I'm sure the photogs among us would admit that even undoctored photos are easily selected to support whatever view one wants to support. So then would we have to monitor who did the photographing and selection? At least umpiring is done out in the open where we can all see the effects and know who is responsible. Better to call for action from MLB to continually evaluate ump performance than to substitute a methodology that would be equally subject to bias and less visible to teams and fans.

abreu vs. melky

if the yanks accept the fact that they have a corner outfielder who can't hit for power, i think it's worth examining who should that be:

power: melky - none to speak of. abreu - in theory yes, but for several years now, not really.

average: melky - probably can get to around .280, similar to last year. abreu - supposed to be his strong suit, but hasn't shown it this year.

defense: melky - great arm, quick. abreu - good arm but lesser range

on the bases: melky - fast enough to steal. abreu - has actually stolen several bases this year.

hustle & heart: melky - emotional, committed, turns single into doubles and doubles into triples. abreu - if he has it, he sure hasn't shown it.

clutch: melky - i trust him in clutch at bats. last year he had the phenomenal AB against billy wagner, going from 0-2 down to a walk, fouling off pitches left and right. he doesn't fear the moment. abreu - so far - anti-clutch.

batting order: malky - should hit in the lower third of the lineup. abreu - ditto.

basically, what i'm saying is this - if the yanks accept abreu's contribution, they have a similar player, younger and at around 15mil less.
food for thought.

Gil, I see your point about Abreu, but I have to say I have been even more disheartened about Cano, who until last night was not only performing abysmally but going around with a carefree grin while doing so. Last night he finally started to look like what he is -- someone in an awful slump who badly needs to figure out and work on the problem.

David Ortiz supports Barry Bonds and admits that He drank something when He was young.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2863623

Count David Ortiz among those who isn't convinced Barry Bonds used illegal performance-enhancing drugs -- or if they really helped the San Francisco Giants outfielder make his run at Hank Aaron's home run record.

"To hit the ball, the guy makes it look easy, but it ain't. I don't know how you can have that swing, consistently. I don't know how steroids can do that," Ortiz told the Boston Herald. "There are supposed to be guys using steroids in the game, and there's nobody close to Barry Bonds. What's that mean? He was using the best [stuff]? Know what I'm saying?"

The Boston Red Sox designated hitter told the Herald that no one has proven that Bonds knowingly used steroids or other performance-enhancing substances -- and that even if it were proven, he's not sure it has made a difference.

"I don't look at it like that. I look at it hitting-wise, because I don't know what steroids can do to you as a baseball player. You've still got to swing the bat, man," Ortiz said. "If I ever use steroids, and then I know what the difference can be and I'm using them, I'll tell you, 'Yeah, whatever,' but I don't know what the feelings are when you use the steroids. But I can tell you how it feels to pull yourself together to swing the bat."

In fact, Ortiz isn't 100 percent certain he's never taken steroids himself. He told the Herald that when he was a young player in the Dominican Republic, he used to drink protein shakes for sale there. He explained no longer does so because he can't be sure they don't include banned substances.

"I tell you, I don't know too much about steroids, but I started listening about steroids when they started to bring that [stuff] up, and I started realizing and getting to know a little bit about it," Ortiz told the Herald. "You've got to be careful. & I used to buy a protein shake in my country. I don't do that any more because they don't have the approval for that here, so I know that, so I'm off of buying things at the GNC back in the Dominican. But it can happen anytime, it can happen. I don't know. I don't know if I drank something in my youth, not knowing it."

Bonds and the Giants are scheduled to visit Fenway Park June 15-17, and Ortiz told the newspaper that Bonds deserves a warmer welcome than he will probably get.

"He deserves respect," Ortiz told the Herald. "People are not going to give it to him because of all the bad things running around, this and that, but people need to realize. I've heard a lot of different things about Barry Bonds, but people should just admit it -- this guy's a bad [expletive]."

And Ortiz thinks Commissioner Bud Selig should commit to being on hand when Bonds breaks Aaron's major-league record of 755 home runs.

"He's just making things worse," Ortiz told the Herald. "He's the commissioner, there's nothing you can do about it. You can't be saying that. What are people going to think about the game? They'll be like, 'This game is a joke.' He should come, even if he doesn't want to."

I understand what you're saying, Jim, Larry & Diane, but the degree of control umpires have is unconscionable. I know the bad calls work both ways, but I'm not looking for any favors from umpires, ever. I want a fair competition, always, plain and simple. We have the ability to incorporate electronic equipment into the game, and this would not eliminate the need for these guys. Someone needs to man the equipment. Appeals can be reviewed by the coaches in addition to the umps. Balls and strikes could be totally automated with no room for blind, prejudicial readings.

While you believe having umps there adds to the game, I think it detracts from the game as this is no longer a fair competition. It can't be fair with so much control being taken out of the hands of the players and placed into the hands of human umpires with innate prejudices, blind eyes, and wandering minds.

Lucy, thanks, I'm glad my post was not TOO misleading, the poor kid was trying to respond to the ineffable Ms. Jones as she attempted to get him to complain about the officiating and/or about his team-mates losing it for him.

I missed the call. OK? Are you happy now? Leave me alone, yankee fans! It wasn't the reason why they lost.

Sure, when Hargrove sent me a 20 before the game started, it may have helped, but still.

Go Red Sox!

diane,

i couldn't agree more, cano looks lost. however, that's exactly the point of having him bat 8th. the potential for him coming up in clutch situations is much smaller than abreu's.
that's why i thin abreu should be moved down dramatically in the order.
as for cano, the dude is hacking at everything now. high fastballs, breaking balls outside or in the dirt. it looks like he starts every at bat 0-2 down.
he got a day off the other day but picked uo where he left off. this is money time for kevin long. with this lineup batting coach should be an easy job, but this is where you make your money - work these guys out of their slumps.

Diane, your post wasn't misleading at all. Actually, my response to your post was probably what was misleading as I was presenting a totally hypothetical situation and it may not have come across that way. I think that's where the confusion came in.

I know one thing, I'm fed up with watching Pavano hanging around the Yankee dugout during games. I can't stand the sight of him.
Anybody remember Rocco Graziosa of Yonkers ? He's the guy that nailed Boomer Wells at the diner on the East Side. Turn him loose on Pavano.

Gil, at least I saw signs of dissatisfaction with himself last night in Cano, which I hope means there will be real motivation to learn how to get out of a slump. This is not going to be the last one he has to deal with, it's a part of any player's life -- but so is learning how to work out of it.

somebody needs to rip My numbers off the back of the free swingong little dummy 2nd baseman on the Yankees making me look bad and to compare his little ass to Rod Carew is an INSULT as well. He is too confident not realizing he needs continued hard work. he is not going to see his number in mOnument park swinging at the moon

Vinny, someone on here suggested previously that if Pavano's not in need of surgery and not up to pitching at this level, he needs to go down to the minors and ride the bus until he is ready -- not to Tampa for another endless 'rehab' in a cozy, protective environment.

Maybe carrying his own bags would motivate him.

Mo has been saying all along he needs more playing time (not throwing sessions), yet he's not being given what he needs. His pitches, apparently, have enough velocity and the appropriate spin, but his location has been off. He has stated time and time again he needs more work this early in the season in order to perfect the location. Evidently, he needs to be used in some non-save situations for the practice. Mo is talking, but management isn't listening.

On another note, Leiter was the best he's been in the booth last night. He was completely into analyzing a new pitcher, what he throws, how he throws, his different grips on the ball and how they change the spin -- not only was this interesting, but it also kept him 'in the game' so all his analysis benefitted from the increased focus. Much better than when he slacks off and gets cutesy with Kay for doubtful laughs. He needs to save that stuff for games that are complete laughers with nothing to comment on.

Umpire's calls are part of the game- we don't complain whent he Yankees win a game on a bad call.

Good news- six out of the past seven gamnes were well-pitched games. I look for this to continue with Pettite-Mussina and Wang against Texas. I think DeSalvo has the stuff and attitude to be a keeper.

Bad news- I've been saying it for weeks- get Abreu out of there. If Seattle didn't srerw up, he would have killed the rally in the first, like he did all the other times. Drop him to 7th.

Lucy,
You are just mad right at the umpires right now but if they were removed from the game it would make the games much longer as a machine or video tape analyzes each pitch and play. There is a human element to baseball that has been working for a long time, occasionally they mess up, it happens. At the end of the year the Yankees will not say that an umpires call made or broke their season. It all evens out in the end, they will have a lot of calls go against them and a lot will go for them. It happens every year. As Nudge wrote earlier, look at Jeffrey Maier and put yourself in an Oriole's fan's shoes.

On the Mo discussion, I'm not sure how much more I'm buying from him on the "I need work" stuff, if he can't get enough work in the bullpen to be ready to pitch in a game than he is doing something wrong. It's 60'6" in the bullpen too.
He has let Torre get killed over the years for pitching him too much, now is he saying that he is not pitching enough? Perhaps he's just not getting enough "respect" (aka a contract extension) to make him pitch better.
It's time for us to stop accepting those excuses and challenge him a bit.

Boy, when I was on here inthe young days of the season, trying to explain to you the real player you had in right field, you all though I was nuts (actually you all thought I was a Red Sox fan). Now you are all seeing what I said. I know many people in Philly and Abreu is proving to be exactly what he was in Philly and the player they booed out of town.

I kind of feel like the parent who's kids pooh poohs him only to find out later Dad was right!

Yankees oft-injured pitcher Carl Pavano is going through an All-Star roster of surgeons in search of the answer to his latest pain. He's already seen James Andrews, David Altchek and Yankees team doctor Stuart Hershon, and now he's on his way to see Lewis Yocum.

The debate now is whether Pavano needs Tommy John elbow ligament replacement surgery, which is quite a bad turn since his injury was originally listed as being in his "forearm.'' But this negative twist can't be a surprise. Pavano's tenure with the Yankees has been marked by freak injuries, slow healing and major disappointment.

"Carl does not want surgery. He wants to pitch,'' his agent Gregg Clifton said. "But he's not capable of pitching. So he wants to find out why he's not capable of pitching. We're searching for an answer to allow him to pitch in 2007 without surgical intervention. But rest has not eliminated the pain in his elbow.''

The Yankees are not going to OK surgery if doctors don't recommend it, and the initial looks apparently have not revealed any tears. Nonetheless, Pavano says he feels great pain.

So Pavano's 2007 doctor tour continues.

I think he also has an appointment with Dr. Kervorkian!

Pavano will see Dr. Vinnie Goombats next so he can have some testicles attached. Let's hope that operation is a success.

Nudge,

Quit acting like a sanctimonious jack-a$$.

Abreu is what he is - a player who is going to hit around .300 with a .400 OBP, not hit a ton of HR's but instead hit doubles, steal some bases and does not want to be thought of as "The Man." He does not like crashing into walls, I wouldn't either if I were teammates with Aaron Rowand last year and saw what happened to him in Philly. Witnessing that up close would make anyone gun shy.

Someone has to make the last out of a game, last night was Abreu's turn

As far as the umpires, I already said I'm not looking for freebies when it comes to calls. I'm not saying Baltimore fans don't have reason to gripe because they do. I'm looking for a fair competition on the field, that's all. We have the capability and it's wisely used in other sports that believe a fair competition is a common goal, so it can and should be used in the archaically run MLB (it's so simple, even a caveman can do it).

As far as the timing of games, automated calls for strikes and balls would be less time consuming than waking up these old guys after the players start arguing about their blindness. When a game is on the line like it was last night, and the call is blatantly horrific, an extra two minutes to review a call in a game that lasts between 3 and 4 hours is not too much to ask. I don't feel a sense of reprieve that someday some call MIGHT be made in our favor, especially if it's not going to help us win that game. Keep the rain check and give me honesty and fairness instead.

I still think that if I were in Cashman's position with Pavano, even if he does need surgery, instead of sending him to the Tampa Complex to rehab I would have him rehabbing with either Trenton or Scranton - sending him to Tampa or keeping him with the big club are like being on vacation - no one I can think of would opt for a vacation in Trenton or Scranton.

Wow Chip,

I just read 30 posts blasting Abreu, some of them pretty visciously, personal references and all. Thats OK because its done by one of your guys though. Maybe your so sensitive about Abreu's poor play because you are one of those who raved about him. Point is he stinks and I told you but you are obviously still in denial.

BTW, Jim, I'm ALWAYS mad at the idea that we employ potentially blind, prejudicial, self-serving, unaccountable, autonomous umpires (one of my biggest pet peeves in baseball). I feel their job is a farce and a joke, since we have a better system that lends itself to engagement in fair competition rather than personal preference.

Nudge,

Everyone is entitled to their opinions; this is why I called you a jack-a$$ "I kind of feel like the parent who's kids pooh poohs him only to find out later Dad was right!"

No chip Abreau needs a fire lite under him now. I'm trying to be patient in watching him but I feel he needs a fire lite under him as a Number 3 hitter move Giambi to the slot. at least he swings the bat or try

Chip,

Go to your room! I'll send Mom up shortly to wash your filthy mouth out with soap. And no Nintendo for a month.

Bomber,
Abreu is not that kind of player - he's not a fire and brimstone type of guy. He's more Bernie Williams, Carlos Beltran than Sheffield. He's not going to swing unless he thinks it is a strike and even so he will take pitches because he doesn't mind hitting with two strikes. His game has always been about seeing pitches, taking pitches and not minding passing the baton to the guy behind him rather than getting the big hit himself. Moving him in the order is not going to change that.

Chip:

Thanks for the reminder, I wasn't sure it was you who had said that and hate to 'quote' anybody inaccurately. Still a good suggestion today.

Nudge:

Watch it, you're going to have Lucy rightly mentioning your looseness around facts (there have not been 30 posts about Abreu, negative or positive, on this thread -- maybe you're counting some from other blogs) and remarks about the person rather than the post (impugning Chip's imagined reasons for saying what he says).

Bernie, Beltran and Sheffield would never look to pass the Baton. They live for those clutch situations where THEY want to get the job done. Abreus thinking is, It my job the let the other guy do my job.

Chip, about Pavano, I meant.

Diane,

Loose exaggeration but the point is still the same. Lets just say LOTS instead of 30.

Gil hit the nail right on the head with Cano. He's a hacker, nothing more. I can't remember the last time he was hitting ahead in the count or drew a walk. Does anyone else remember the pitch he struck out on last week that hit him? Melky actually is doing the same thing and I guess discipline is something that young hitters just have to learn (at last count BJ Upton was leading the AL in average and strike outs).

As for Pavano, it angered me to see him in the dugout last night. He does not deserve to wear the pinstripes. It's time to acknowledge your mistake, release him, and let him go quietly into the night. I'm not sure Carla will ever pitch effectively again, and she can't be doing much for morale in the clubhouse.

Wasn't it Beltran who ended the Mets season w/ his bat on his shoulder :)

I believe Abreu is just in a slump, it's that simple. It happens to the best of 'em. He'll find his stroke sooner or later but a day off wouldn't hurt that's for sure.

Nudge, deep breath. Slow down and read before responding. Bernie and Beltran were contrasted with Sheffield, not placed in the same category...

If you look at the post Nudge I was comparing Abreu's personality to that of Bernie and Beltran in that they are laid back, quiet guys who do not play with an edge like Sheffield or Roger Clemens do. Every player wants to get the big hit, my point is that Abreu is a patient hitter who doesn't mind if he takes a walk rather than getting the big hit himself.

Would I have liked for him to get the bat off the shoulder on that last strike call last night? Of course, to me, on television it looked like a perfect pitch to hit - Abreu was either fooled by it or fooled by the velocity - he's not standing up there thinking to himself, "ya know what, f*%& it, I'm gonna take strike three right here to end the game."

Jim A.

Yup, but I didnt select the names, Chip did I just repeated them. I believe Abreu has been in a 2 1/2 year slump. He performed well in the end of last season here, but I knew the old Bobby Abreu would soon be back. In fact he may be worse here than in Philly because he IS surrounded by better ballplayers. Now he can actually make it sound like he is doing something good by not trying to get the clutch hit.

I go back to my original analogy on Abreu vs O'Neil in the number three spot. Down by a run in the ninth...runner on first...2-0 count.... do you want your guy looking for a walk, or a pitch to hammer. That defines Abreu and O'Neil repectively.

Baseball players fall into slumps. It's normal, it's natural, and it's to be expected. Funny how baseball fans in general can't live with the players who fall into slumps (calling for their heads in trades). Yet, they can live with this whole archaic umpiring system that's contributing to more game losses in the long-run than they realize. Last night's debacle was blatant, but the more subtle missed calls bypass us without much thought. We've just gotten so used to this prejudicial system, we no longer question its sanity while other sports know the real score and are light years ahead of us. I will go out on a limb and suggest that the Yankees are hated by more people than any other team in baseball. I don't think it's necessary to explain why I made that comment and suggest how it relates to the umpiring issue at hand.

Diane,

Too bad the point was better the way I read it. I guess I gave Chip too much credit then.

Oneil is in his own class

he could have been a lovely DH

Okay, enough Evil Umpire bashing for now. Sorry, guys and gals, but this my place to vent. Feel free to bypass my rants.

Bernie and Beltran both had/have power. Abreu doesn't. He had to be on something to win that homerun contest a few years back. His power numbers the last few years are pathetic. As far as Abreu not swinging unless it's a strike, he's struck out swinging countless times on pitches out of the strike zone- watch the games.

Are we really so screwed up as a fan base that we are willing to throw players that we know are good players under the bus after a month?

According to the posts I've skimmed through Abreu and Cano are the latest scapegoats for what is wrong with the Yankees.

Look, last night's loss comes down to this - good pitching performance from DeSalvo against a bad Seattle team, the pen not being able to hold the lead, a bad call by an ump and another bad performance by Rivera.

I said it when people were ripping A-rod and blaming the last two post seasons on him, it takes 25 guys to win and 25 guys to lose.

Right now there are serious issues with this team: Rivera continues to pitch poorly

The bench is mostly inept

The pen has been over worked to the point of disaster

The rotation is looking better (and may get better still with the debut of Clemens in a month and the possible return of Hughes should the organization opt to send him back to the majors) but who knows what Rasner and DeSalvo will give the team on a regular basis - they looked good against the Mariners but the Mariners stink

Johnny Damon is hurting, badly

So with all those real problems I don't think we as a fan base have the luxury of blowing slumps by Abreu and Cano out of proportion.

cs,

The point is, he is not a 3 spot hitter. You do not want a passive hitter in the 2 money spots in the lineup.

Jim A, those are good points about Mo, but it's still early in the season so the lack of work may hold some validity. I mean, I can't imagine that the opposition has suddenly figured him out after 12 years. Thank God he still has the velocity and spin, but he obviously needs to work on the location. Apparently, the throwing sessions just aren't doing the job. Hopefully, more work in a real game is the answer. It can't hurt for Torre to throw him in every other day or so and then rest him when he's achieved his goals. It's worth a try.

See Chip, you can make some good sense when you try...except for the Abreu slump stuff. DeSalvo should be your positive topic of discussion, not umpires.

Give Cano a break for this year. It could just be that adjustment year that many young players go through. But if I were another GM (a smart one, not Cashman)I would have him on my trade interest list. Thinking his having an off year I can get him cheaper than I may get him in the future(Cashman thinks the other way around).

An example of Cashman thinking...Melky had a great year filling in and other clubs are really interested in him now...he has no longterm role with us here....I'll wait till he goes in the tank then try to make a deal for him.

What makes Abreu such a bad number three hitter? His lack of power? His patience at the plate? Got news for you, Joe Mauer has just as little power and is just as patient and he's also a number three hitter.

Abreu bats 3rd instead of Giambi because Giambi can't run, at all, so when Abreu gets on base (which he does at about a .400 clip - down this year to match the slump he's in right now) and Alex hits a double in the gap Abreu can score rather than having cement footed Giambi either a) wind up at 3rd or b) worse, not get farther than 2nd.

I never said lack of power. #3 guys only need extra base power. He is too passive. More like a #7-9 hitter.

I still think Jeter is your perfect #3 hitter, enough power, clutch, can run a bit and smart. Oh and not passive.

Nudge,

It would help a great deal if you knew what you were talking about. The Melky trade that was on the table was not Melky for Mike Gonzalez straight up (had it been that trade would have been done in as little time as it takes for me to call you a sanctimonious jack-a$$) the trade that was proposed was Melky and Proctor for Gonzalez - and THAT trade makes no sense so why make it?

The point in keeping Melky is that defensively he was better than Bernie Williams and had shown himself over the season to be a better option than the Kevin Reese's, Kevin Thompson's, and Bubba Crosby's.

In my opinion he is slipping into the Bubba Crosby mentality where he tries to do so much with each limited at bat to convince people to play him more that he ends up doing nothing, so he plays less so he presses more when he does play...

Nudge -

So lets see your batting order.

I dont see Mauer enough to be able to tell what type of player he is and since you dont see him that much you are probably just using his stats as an indication. When you play sports alot you get to know players by watching them whether or not they have the desire to be the Man. Mauer..I dont know... Jeter definitely...Abreu...never did, never will.

Just one opinion though.

Did Bubba make the team in Cincy or is he back in the minors?

Chip,

Reread my post and show me where I referred to a specific trade(which by the way is galvanized rumor only). I was just pointing out that the off season was the perfect time to get maximum value for Melky, but know that ship has sailed. I dont know of any specific trades for sure, nor do you. Isnt it always odd how the rumored trades not made always make Cashman out to be real smart, but the actually trades he makes have the opposite effect. Makes you wonder about who floats those rumors doesnt it?

I actually supported trading Melky for pitching help over the winter as I felt his value was at an all time high. I argued that OF's are much easier to come by than pitchers and what better trade bait than a young guy who doesn't make any money- something the Yanks didn't exactly have an abundance of.

Rick Keyes and I agreed on this but we were in the minority I believe.

Jim,

Maybe Cashman did try to trade him, maybe not. We dont know but either way its a moot point now. If he didnt have a plan here for him and planned on him being a backup player, then he may have miss judged the oppurtunity. If he thought he would eventually be a starter, then he definitely misjudged. If he missed a chance to trade him, then he misjudged.

He went through this baloney about trading to build up the farm stuff that dumped aging ML players...for aging AAA players. Here was a young guy that may have brought back a young prospect, at any position, the would fill one of the many holes this team has and is developing.

I don't want my comments to be read as a suggestion that Cano should be thrown under the bus. It's frustrating to watch hitters like Jeter, Matsui, Posada, Giambi (and to a lesser extent Abreu) who understand that you have to work the count until you get a pitch that you can hit. It's real simple...swing at a pitcher's pitch too often and you'll hit .240. Swing at a hitters pitch more often, and you'll hit .300 or better while drawing a considerable number of walks (assuming you have talent). Cano simply does not understand this. As I said, maybe I'm spoiled as a Yankees fan, but when the team's not doing well things like this aggravate you a little more. My concern for Cano is that his approach is all wrong, meaning this may be more than just a slump.

The bloggers on here are right. It's time to move Abreu down in the order.

One other thing. Has anyone else noticed how poorly David Wright is doing this year (time will tell if it's just a slump)? What do Wright and Abreu have in common? Both have strugged with their powers numbers after participating in the home run derby. I mention this because it is clear that Abreu's swing is screwed up--he's pulling off the ball and it appears he has a slight upper cut. What do you guys (and gals) think?

In the next 2 years the Yankees need to fill these positions...

Catcher
First Base
Third Base
Left Field
Center Field
Right Field
4 Starters
Closer
Backup catcher
most Bull pen spots

Thats enormous.

With what they currently have in the farm system, maybe 2 of those will be filled.

I don't think any Yankee fan can complain with the last three major trades Cashman has made:

Abreu and Corey Lidle for Matt Smith, CJ Henry and two other minor leaguers - essentially a money dump from Philly, but even so, Yankees got exactly what they needed without having to give up a single worthwhile prospect

Randy Johnson for Olendorf, Jackson, Gonzalez and Vizciano - a 40 year old pitcher with a bad back, bad attitude and bad contract yet the team got back a top prospect, two other useful prospects and an arm for the pen.

Sheffield for Whalen, Clagget and Sanchez - Obviously we won't know anything until Sanchez comes back but even so - he got back three live arms for another bad attitude guy coming off a major injury that teams knew he had no choice but to move.

Other good trades:
Ventura for Proctor/Crosby
Westbrook and Ledee for Justice
Justice for Ventura
Claussen for Boone
Irabu for Westbrook, Lilly, Christian Parker
Some guy named A-Rod for Soriano

Some Bad Trades:
Lowell for Ed Yarnell
Lilly for Weaver
Johnson, Rivera for Vazquez

Seriously though, outside of those four guys show me the current major leaguer who is out there doing something great for another team that used to be a Yankee farm hand and was not spun off into a guy who helped the team win?

When I said above it's frustrating to watch some hitters work the count, what I meant to say is that it's frustrating to watch those hitters that don't take this approach...

Sorry, I'll include one more bad one - Wily Mo Pena to Reds for Drew Henson (who was originally traded for Denny Nagle)

Abreu is in a slump, all players go through that several times a season. The worst part about his performance last night, was going down "looking" with the tying run at 2nd and 2 outs in the 9th. He must have been "guessing". So much for "protecting the plate".
As for the bad call, Baseball is special in that technology has not taken it over. As far as officials go, umpires are by far the superior "arbitrators" in any sport. We lost that game because MO "coughed" another one up. Plain and simple.

I forget, someone remind me but wasn't A-Rod booed and vilified for two years by Yankee fans. Bust, waste of money, no guts, stat man...a few of the Yankee Fan characterizations. Now after a great April...HES THE MAN.

RJ grumpy did win 17 games a year I believe. What guy in that trade replaces that?

And all the other alphabet soup of names for names, none of them are doing anything for this team.

The best you can say for Cashmans trades are that he sure knows how to take out his own trash.

Yeah Nudge, you're right, none of the other guys helped the Yankees do anything - especially not that Justice guy who pretty much carried the Yankees through the ALCS in 2000.

As for the booing of A-Rod, just because there are stupid fans doesn't make a trade bad.

How's Randy, now coming off back surgery, doing this season? 3 games, 0-2 with an ERA over 6.5 22 hits in 18 innings, you're right, absolutely should have held onto him - because if there is one thing the Yankees don't have enough of this season it is hurt or ineffective pitchers.

Every umpire blows calls
Every player strikes out
Every pitcher gives up homeruns
Every closer blows saves
and every General Manager makes bad trades.

If you want perfection, go out, buy yourself a video game and that way when something doesn't work out the way you want it to you can hit the reset button.

I forget, someone remind me how AR got into this discussion of Cashman's good and bad trades?

Surely AR couldn't be a distraction?

That WOULD be weird...

Diane,

He got in there because Nudge likes to stir stuff up rather than make, you know, points.

Sorry if my comments about Cano seemed tantamount to 'throwing him under the bus'. He has been in [what I equated to] a slump or [what others have perceived as] a prolonged inability to be selective about what he swings at, and until very lately he has seemed remarkably insouciant and self-satisfied along with it. I do not want to throw him under the bus but I do think he needs to grow and develop as a player and I certainly hope that doesn't entail being mired in this state for a whole season as Nudge suggests.

Chip: (re: sudden mention of AR)

Ya think?!

I am a big loser.

How about this lineup:

Damon
Jeter
Giambi
A-Rod
Matsui
Posada
Abreu
Cano
Mientkieiwcz/Phelps

I think we should go with this lineup until Aberu starts hitting again.

Also, Cano has been really disappointing as well. He always seems to be behind 0-2 ad then swinging at a pitch way out of the strike zone. He needs to focus more. He's too good of a hitter though to let this continue.

By the way, Mattingly seems to be a lot like Torre when he was answering questions and how he looked in the dugout. I would prefer a manager with some more emotion and fire.

I want to massage Damon's bad back.

Jeff,

Giambi cannot run at all. At all. For any purpose. Including escaping from an avalanche. Lovable in his way and place, but moving him from one base to another would require either a HR or a crane behind him.

Jeff,

The problem with batting Giambi ahead of Alex (in my opinion) is that Giambi is so painfully slow he would clog up the bases for the faster Rodriguez behind him. That would negate Alex's speed and his gap power. Right now, if Abreu gets on ahead of Rodriguez and Alex hits a ball in the gap, Abreu can score from first, no way Jason can - in fact more likely is that he would hold up at 2nd and turn probable doubles into long singles.

I say, the pitching might be starting to settle down - leave the lineup alone and let guys in slumps start working out of them.

Cano is in a tough spot since he has no protection in the lineup with Doug hitting behind him - he's going to have a tough time getting pitches to hit unless Doug starts swinging the bat better (which he has been)

Please, please, Nudge Imposter. Try to think of some way to amuse us over your own moniker.

Because this way is not working for you.

Chip,

Who is replacing RJ's 17 wins? Simple enough question. Those players in that trade will never total 17 wins for a season.

Make that for a career.

Pavano,Nagle,Weaver,Brown,Vasquez,Mienky,Nieves,Igawa,Vizcaino,Womack,Farsnworth,Abreu,........So many more they all start blending together. What other GM comes even close to that many bad deals.

Nudge,

The Yankees didn't trade Johnson for a major league starter, they traded him for two prospect pitchers, a prospect SS and a reliever, they are not the players being asked to fill his spot in the rotation, the player asked to do that was Pettitte - and if you look at the two of them thus far, I would say Andy represents an upgrade over RJ, both in performance and personality.

Answer...none because the others would be fired after the first three. But Cashman puts the well I didnt have total control fog up to hide behind. So he now gets full control and has to put up or shut up. He has unlimited resources at his disposal...How has he done?

Well hes made Chip happy...and me too?

Well why not both then? Why trade away 17 for nothing? Pettitte wasnt dependant on RJ trade. Why couldnt Cashman get a starter. Maybe Johnson wouldnt have gotten hurt in NY. Maybe hed be that innings eater you are clamoring for. He did average over 210 per season for you guys. 17 wins and 200 innings would sound much better than a SS prospect(like you need that)and a bunch of AAA pitchers that will never see a ML rotation.

Walt Jockety, Theo, Beane, Sabean, are a few that come to mind

Jockety - Traded Haren for Mulder, Drew for Marquis, couldn't keep or rebuild his WS pitching staff

Beane - Ethier for Milton Bradly, traded for Kendall, got nothing for Tim Hudson, Barry Zito, Giambi, Damon, Tejada, Dye, overpaid Chavez, overpaid Loiaza...

Theo - Bard and Meredith for Mirabelli, Matsuzaka, Clement, JD Drew, Coco Crisp, Edgar Renteria

Like I said, EVERY GM MAKES BAD DEALS.

Nudge,

Johnson is 41, coming off back surgery - he was not ready for the start of the season and since coming off the DL he has averaged 6 ineffective innings per start for the Diamondbacks playing in a pitcher's park in a division full of pitcher's parks (with the exception of Colorado). How can anyone, even a moron like you, believe that Randy Johnson would be at all effective had he stayed with the Yankees this year?

and it wasn't a question of Johnson getting hurt in Arizona - he had back surgery right after the season ended to fix a herniated disc in his back.

Chip,

You dont know what would have transpired if he stayed here so dont claim you do. Also you really need to get that Torrets thing looked into. There are good meds out there for that stuff these days.

On that note, I'm outta here, I have work to do and even if I didn't, I loathe arguing with morons, all they do is invariably drag you down to their level.

how can you predict and compare how 4 prospects will fare against a 17 win season? in 2006 big unit probably pitched well enough in 10-12 to win those games, relying on run support the other 5-7. time will tell on that deal. i do agree that brian cashman has had his fair share of bust-deals. that notion however falls under the "risk and reward" catergory of baseball general managing

I believe the league is getting to know Bobby Abreu. He hit a soft .270 with Philly and .330 with the Yankees. He obviously gets more fastballs from the lineup with the Yankees but they are diverting away from this and throwing soft stuff. he belongs in the back of the lineup. Now, Cano has the physical ability to be just pure dynamite at the plate. Mentally, second base is becoming a slow learn but I believe his issues are between the ears. We must remember how short a period of time that he has been with us less than 2 full years of MLB playing time. His immaturity shows up constantly with his inability to bust out on many balls hit from the batters box. He sits and assesses the hit whether to run, hard. At second he knows where to be and can get their but he still giggles with his head down after making a fine play. This is not a fault, I'm happy he's happy about his play. It just brings a point that he has maturity problems at the plate to deal with and make him a solid hitter.

Personally, I would not resign Abreu. No matter what he does. Put Melky everyday and use the 13/16 million to pay Arod or get some pitching Melky can do the same job as Bobby Abreu. I feel our pursuit of youth movement must be continued. Matt De Salvo was apleasure to watch. Pavano should be released for medical reasons if possible and collect the insurance money. he does not deserve to be sitting on the bench with the guys busting their butts, playing hurt or sore. Pavano does not know the difference in playing sore or hurt .

Johnson had back surgery in October - him starting the season on the DL was a result of that, not some new injury

From ESPN.com on Jan 5:

Randy Johnson is headed back to the Arizona Diamondbacks after two unfulfilling years with the New York Yankees that began with a nasty sidewalk confrontation and ended with a messy playoff loss...With a 17-11 record and a 5.00 ERA last season, the 43-year-old left-hander is coming off back surgery on Oct. 26. Although he has gone 34-19 during the regular season in two years with the Yankees, he is 0-1 with a 6.92 ERA in three postseason appearances.

Ronelle White,J Vander Wal,Karsay,Mondesi,Contreras,Quantrill

Finally I must say Nudge is making creative arguments. Bobby ABreau as much as I like him his slump is effecting the lineup why not place him second and bat jeter third? do something. as for the RJ trade we did get prospects and I hope they work out .

But lets look at the flip side.. A phillies fan could say well we traded Bobby away for 5 prospects and not a one is producing his numbers.

I continue to push the Abreu\Cano "flip-flop" in the batting order. Cano, batting between Jeter and A-OPT will get plenty of fast ball strikes to "flail" at. At this stage in his Yankee career, Cano is much like Soriano was. A free swinger, with developing power. Abreu could relax at the bottom of the order, draw walks in a worst case scenario, and help "wrap" the batting order back around.

DESPERATION -

Describes the Yankees right now could the yankees recieved better options for sheffield?

RJ trade - becasue the yankees recieved HIGHLY advertised prospects does not mean they are good prospects. YOu always foucus on the ones the other team is RELUCTANCT to give up. overall I appreciate this trade.

Sheff trade,

I have funny thoughts on this one. Was the demand by the fans/Sheff the driving point in getting rid of him without truely research a backfire?

Did the Yankees NOT know they was getting damaged goods or did they let the Tigers Bamboze them?

Roy, maybe someday when Cano is not a guaranteed out. Right now he is so hopeless that the only thing to do is hide him down there where the damage of having him in the lineup at all is minimized.

Cano's problem is he swings at pitches out of the strike zone. Putting him in a spot in the batting order, where the pitcher is "forced' to throw him strikes, will solve the problem.

Roy, nobody with an IQ higher than the ambient temperature is 'forced' to throw strikes to someone who is going to swing at the first three white objects that show movement in his vicinity.

Where's Waldo , Oops I mean Carl Pavano.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/waldo.html

When Mo was dominant he use to get hitters to go "up the ladder" meaning that he'd get that first pitch strike, the next pitch was a little higher, and finally getting them to swing at a pitch that was at the letters or higher. he needs to do that again.
Also, wasn't he working on a change in ST? Why did he abandon that?

Diane re-can0

Well done. That's twice today you've wielded your mighty sword of sarcasm. You are a ninja!! I love it.

Phucker, glad you enjoy it and thanks for saying so -- sometimes I get out of hand.

I am the world's biggest, loneliest, moron. Please, love me. I am such a loser.

And by the way, Boston's 1 championship in 86 years proves they are the better franchise and have always made the best personnel decisions when compared to the Yankees.

dont mind me, just looking for another way to spit my verbal diarrhea. please ignore me.

by the way, have i told you my team of choice?

I smell like diarrhea too.

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School is definitely out.

See you at the game, NYY fans!

"beat the mets, beat the mets" thats what the yanks did in 2000 !

In a season fraught with anxiety coming from all fronts from offense to defense to mangers, Gms, to "Pavagawa"....etc.

I am in state of shock over Mo. I'm not sure if he's ever struggled like this before but if he has I wasn't paying attention.

I understand at some point he's going to inevitably see a decline in his efficacy as he is after all "human" and they/we all get old.

The guy deserves our gratitude and I believe he will get it even if this is the sum of all fears ie.."The beginning of the end." I don't anticipate boo's is basically what I mean by that and he's earned such status.

I have 2 questions.

1. Am I over-reacting

2. If not. What if any plans are there for this kind of inevitable reckoning.
Where is Mo's "MO" to Wetteland?

I see No replacement not that I expect there will ever be another Mo but I don't see any potential "big time" closer being groomed...

In my opinion this would be the biggest gaf the yankees of the 21st century could ever make. Forget about Irabu/Igawa/Pavano. Busts, mistakes but all of minor significance.
Not having a plan for the future regarding Rivera's age is a disgrace.

I have to believe the people who control the "BILLION DOLLAR YANKEES" could not be this irresponsible to us, mo, or themselves....

Or should I?

Phucker.

The next Mo is here the problem is we do not have the right TALENT EVAUALATORS to choose correctly, one of these "young" starters will not be such and may be converted. My wildcard pick remains to be Sanchez depending who is working with him. Remember Mo was "discovered " in SHolwaters/Micheals watch.

PHUCKER-
If Mo were to "fall apart", and the Yanks continue to get good SP from the "young guns", the new Mo would be here in a month. That's right. CLEMENS. These old "flame throwers", are physically better suited for frequently going 1 inning than 6 or 7. Of course, Clemens would have to be with the team on a daily basis to fill that role.

Diane: in reference to Roy's comment. Cano can hit two pitches very well the fastball and the breaking pitch away. notice how he hits the softer serves to left. This leaves him vulnerable to the high hard one away and low and inside but he will get more fastballs to hit.So, the pitchers throw better pitches so as not to put men on base. With the heavy part of the lineup hitting behind him it should present more hittable pitches in theory.

Finally, somebody's got it. Phuker--you are 100% correct.

Failing to have a plan b for Mo is going to kill us. I don't care how many games Clemens wins or Abreu stikes out--without the old Mo we are doomed. He was the single most important factor in our glory days. Just the mere thought he would get into a game was intimidating to opposing teams--I don't think that is the case now and why all teams play the Yanks was so much more confidence.

Failing to be ready for the inevitable wil be Cashman's biggest downfall.

the BURDEN Roy would then fall on torre's shoulders in overlooking MO. would Mo feel slighted and bolt?

He might, but the immediate goal is a championship. My guess is the Yanks look at Proctor as the next MO.

LARRY M.-
Thanks

proctor is a good selection but I think Joe destroyed his stamina, Humberto sanchez remains a possibility(mystery) because of the surgery and under the radar

DK

I agree but I am shocked that something so easy to assume could be so arrogantly ignored. I feel it's almost an insult to Mo himself that the organization could appear to have overlooked his great achievements and supreme importance by not preparing or appearing to not have prepared.

Roy

I think that could work but what about next year and this is hard to stomach but how would you "demote" MO?

I don't see that happening I think we'd suffer thru a less than "outstanding" season or two from him before moving on. Maybe that's why we don't see his apparent replacement? I don't know but if I remember correctly they had atleast a year or 2 before getting rid of Wetteland I don't know why we haven't repeated the process. We should've had a Zumaya type for last 2 yrs in my opinion handing the ball to MO. A kid of his ability young enough could be Mo's set up guy for years until it was necessary to start thinking of moving on.

About five years ago, I vehemently disagreed with my husband and son who claimed that Mo was finished because he was blowing a lot of saves at that time. My husband said he was getting too old to be a closer. I said he was spouting nothing more than nearsighted poppycock and that he didn't know diddly-squat about Mo, who was merely in a slump. Mo bounced back and whenever he saved a game, I did a little na-na-na-na-na, while my husband proclaimed his own version of righteousness when Mo blew a save. Needless to say, I've had a lot more na-na-na-na-na's over the years than he did.

So what's my point, you ask? Okay, the point is, while Mo will inevitably retire some day, I don't think it's going to be within the next couple of years. Once he perfects his location as the season progresses, I feel he will be fine. His pitches still have velocity and nasty movement, and that's what's most important.

But who can replace him one day? How about Philip Hughes? He reminds me of Papelbon and I feel he can be just as effective. We may have to sacrifice a great starting pitcher for the sake of having a great closer, just like the Red Sox. I think it's a workable solution when we face the inevitable some day.

Lucy, I'd like to think you are right, but I think your husband is/was right--Mo has been on a decline for a few years now--I think we all-- Yankee brass and fans alike--have been unwilling to admit it.

As far as I am concerned t
this is our most pressing issue.

DK, that's actually not true about Mo being in a steady state of decline in the last five years. It just appears that way when he's slumping.

Here are his stats since 1995. Interestingly, in 1995 (when he so young), his average was at its highest, followed by its second highest in the year 2000 (when we won our last World Series).

1995 5.51
1996 2.09
1997 1.88
1998 1.91
1999 1.83
2000 2.86
2001 2.34
2002 2.74
2003 1.66
2004 1.95
2005 1.38
2006 1.80

Lucy

I appreciate your take on this especially with your admitted undying love for Mo.

I think most of us will always have a special affinity for him maybe more than the rest. Long after he's gone we will tell our grandchildren that we got to see the greatest. Of every great player that contributes today or contributed through out those great years of recent past I don't think anyone of them will ever hold a candle to Mo and his importance.

I hope he turns this around and I think he will. However I'm not sure it's fair for us to keep expecting the kind of performance he's provided yr in yr out. It's a big fat problem that every team except ours has had to deal with and we owe it all and I mean ALL those championships to him. It's really hard to think about a replacement so I'm not going to. There is no "replacement" and I fear for the poor soul who does indeed step into the role.

Just thinking of this possibility is really depressing. I think when Mo does leave or begins to come down to atleast the standards of the best closers other than himself it will signify the end for a while. I could be wrong but I just don't see it without Mo.

Now we've got Queens Mets fans on the board? Aren't the venemous jealous Red Sox Fans and Nudge enough?

Is it my imagination, or did Mo attempt to pitch the ninth without throwing one cutter? Sucliffe was claiming that his cutter has lost some of its late movement (whereas I think it's a location problem because he's rusty) and I kept waiting to see for myself. The pitch Beltre hit was a two-seam fastball up in the zone. Am I right about no cutters yesterday? We need to remind ourselves that Mo basically didn't throw the last six weeks of the 2006 season, had few opportunities in October as we were ousted in the first round, and had his usual lack of work in ST. For whatever reason, Torre just hasn't put him out there much this year even though the rest of the pen has been overworked. Let's not give up on him yet!

Larry, thanks. I understand the theory and as I said to Roy I believe the switch might be helpful when Cano pulls himself together enough not to be a triple-warranteed out. At the present moment, except in areas of the baseball world where TV, video and scouts are unavailable due to flooding, everyone knows as well as we do that Cano will swing at absolutely anything that is colored white and moves in his vicinity, so no one need feel 'forced' to throw him strikes no matter where he hits. The only walk he's able to get right now is the IBB. This is surely a temporary condition and he will at some point be back in the normal theoretical world and I will be there with him.

Perhaps I am wrong about all this. It has been known to happen.

Even better, perhaps he recovers from his coma tonight.

I hear what you're saying, PhuckTheRedSox (I now realize the entire moniker is too hard to resist typing). I think as Yankees fans, we are all caught up in the here and now, we want another World Series now, this year, and we're not willing to wait. Because of that, I think we place tremendous expectations on our players, wherein if they falter for a couple of weeks -- or in Mo's case, a few games in a short period of time -- we automatically believe they've become useless. Too often we've gotten rid of players due to our needing-it-now impatience, only to regret it when they excel with other teams. All players slump, Mariano slumps, it's normal. Deeming a player practically dead and buried because he hasn't produced in a month or so is our downfall as We-Want-The-World-Series-And-We-Want -It-Now Yankees fans.

As far as Mariano, I think he will know when he's had enough and can no longer be effective. At that point, I think he will retire on his own. Until then, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt. We are panicking, he is not, the Yankees are not. It's just too soon.

However, inevitably, when he does retire, someone else will take his place on the field, although not in our hearts. There will never be another Mariano, but there will be a different closer with capabilities that could surprise us and surpass that of Mariano's. We can't discount this possibility. The Yankees have won World Series before 1995 without Mariano and we'll do it again. I think for now, though, that thought is just too premature.

A few thoughts.

Chip is a loyal fan.

Cano may not be that good ... meaning he must adjust as the pitchers are finding how to pitch him.

Dave Duncan oould not stop Mulder or Carp. from getting hurt ... Weaver they had to let go. Kip Wells always did well vs St. Louis so they were thinking, "Wow this guy is awsome!" Like Pat Burrell vs. the Mets. Like Bob Uecker vs. Sandy Koufax.

We needed Westbrook and Lilly in the All Star game for our team ...

DeSalvo, Hughes, Proctor, Henn ... pretty good arms. Rasnell. Karstens has the courage you want on the team and they won't forget it.

Farnsworth can throw very hard ... we should not give up on that arm ... better approach, setting up his pitches, both sides of the plate, more confidence, whatever ... find out what the other coaches told Westbrook and Lilly when they left and then tell our kids.

The team has NEVER been the same since Mo's error in the World Series in 01.

And if you think the WS vs the Marlins was ok, had AJ Burnette not been hurt ... we might have been swept.

We had NO CHANCE with Beckett even on 3 days rest in the sixth game. NO CHANCE, and dominant teams NEVER are that feeble in any sport ... Bulls, Pistons, 49ers, Steelers, any dynasty ... Islanders ... they are ready to win ... their opponents knew they were up against something special. I mean you could FEEL it watching ... the power shift. Like the sinking of a great ship.

The Yanks have not been special for a long time ... not with Scotty, Paulie, Chuckie and Tino gone. Leyritz ... all of them ... gamers. Not a bunch of stars who don't really mesh as a T E A M.

No fire vs. Angels in either playoff loss ... none ... Posada spoke about this ...

Detroit had the power arms last year ... in those shadows ... no chance for our guys.

But now we are getting the power arms too ...

And with a few good moves things will turn around ...

Bench, backup catcher, 1B, pitchers protecting our hitters when they get hit, not burning out the bullpen, Clemens helping the young kids ... starters not getting hurt, Cash Man making the right trades to bolster the team ...

Melky, Menky, Nieves, Cairo, Meyers, Vizcaino ... maybe there are options there?

Just my two cents

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