On the Yankees beat

Bad conditions, good offensive team, lots of butterflies, Torre and a strict pitch count - I'm thinking he goes about 5 gives up 3 runs.

If he does better, I'll be thrilled, if he does worse - I'm not going to kill him for it.

Hughes , 6 innings 5 hits 3 runs 2 Earned...
Chip :
Did you catch Peavy' performance last night 7 innings 16 K's only to see Hoffman lose it..

This early in the season and in his career i'm just hoping for a safe, conservative outing. If he's all he's cracked up to be then the outcome of the game is really secondary.

No earned runs to 2 er

6 innings

6 k's

I hope Yankees lose Remaining their games. As a lifetime and Diehard Yankees Fan, I hope We get the first pick of draft and It’s time to Rebuild. Sorry Guys, I don’t think It’s The Yankees year to win World Series this year. I have feeling this is not our year because of the injuries in the pitching staff, The bullpen being awful right now and Joe’s cluless.

Not as "cluless" as someone who can't spell clueless.

Thank you , English Teacher.. Hey Everybody Angel's spell checker on this blog..

jy - you posted that same garbage last week, at least come up with something new

I like Chip's prediction of 5 IP 3R, don't want to have unrealistic expectations for his first start.

Mr. Hughes should have a game which in my book is 6 solid innings with the yankees in the lead and he grows confidence for another turn in 5 days. It sounds as if he's going back to Scranton unless he so impressive that only a fool GM would send him back.... lets not go there.

I hope to god he can go 6 innings and dominate a little. Nothing crazy but 5 ks no walks would ensure him another start. The tough part is gonna be the pitch count. Can't imagine they're gonna give him more than 80 pitches which will make it nearly impossible to go deep. Very slick move last night canceling the game to get the pen some rest.

Fingers Crossed GO PHIL!!!!

jy, why did you randomly capitalize words that don't need to be capitalized? For example, remaining was spelled "Remaining" in the middle of the sentence. Same thing for "We", "It's" and "Rebuild"

Hughes tonight: 5.1 IP, 7H, 2ER, 4K, 2BB.

Yes, Phucker, I wondered if that was a 'mercy' rainout but I sometimes get confused about who decides rainouts -- is it the home team before the game, MLB after it starts? Or what?

Red sox beat yankees fenway riot (part 1)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2EDmYcEQQLA&mode=related&search=

Video Of Red sox beat yankees fenway riot (part 2)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=D12cGRGhWCk&mode=related&search=

In Part 2 of Video, The Redsox Fans started chanting and Shouting NewYork Knicks What a bunch of classless bums.

Because Your so hot, Can I get extra credits now? Lol

Diane: rainouts use to be the call of the home club prior to the start. After the start the umpires have the call. It still might be the same, now.

Thanks, Larry.

I think he'll go 5.1 with 2ER, 5K, 1BB.

I'm worried that tomorrow's game might get rained out and Andy's schedule will be out of wack. Plus I have tickets.

I think Phil of the future will go 6.0 with 3ER,2K, and 2BB.It is his first start so I am not expecting him to be lights out. If he is that is all the more better. Of course I will be there tonight to root him on!GO PHIL!

Ruse - I heard about that start - where he struck out 9 in a row at one point.

A bad night for a couple of pens last night including the Braves.

On another note - FoxSports Ken Rosenthal says that the Padres are going to put Linebrink back on the market - along with Kevin Kousmanoff - looking for an upgrade either at third or corner outfield. You think Melky and a prospect could land that pair?

On another point - bigger waste of money: Pavano, Clement, or Prior?

Umps also control rainout if it is the visiting team's last visit to the city.

Postseason is MLB's call.

Chip,
Depends on how much Prior is making, but Pavano is probably the winner there only because he was the bigger tease. He actually had a good season in his career. Clement was never able to throw strikes consistently and Prior has been all promise and no delivery of that promise.

For those interested - Hughes's pitching coach Dave Eiland will be on the Mike and Mad Dog show this afternoon. For those who don't remember, Eiland was a scab player in the strike year who pitched briefly for the Yankees when the real players came back.

BTW I don't know if any of you have seen the new SI where they are now trying to analyze how Alex has turned around from last year to this year - seems from what I understand like they did a complete 180 on everything Verducci said in his article about A-Rod the "Lonely Yankee" last year.

cs07, thanks for helping get the rainout rules straight in my mind.

I love how everyone has been fully indoctrinated with the Yankee mentality of low expectations and setting the bar LOW. This kind of thinking is exactly why none of our pitchers can go past 5 innings and RP can't pitch on back to back days, etc. They all know that management doesn't expect that much and they must be babied at all costs.

Other teams have no-name pitchers throwing 120 pitches already and throwing complete games. This whole mental approach of babying these guys has got to stop and the bar needs to be set much higher! People learn to rise to the level of what's expected of them. That is how champions are developed. It's time to move the bar skyward!

I am looking for 7 innings of keep us in the game pitching from Hughes tonight. He is clearly capable of that and that is what I expect to see. But, somehow I just don't see Torre letting that happen!

I agree w/ Jimbo ,Prior is 26 yrs old still has an upside ,
although a diminished one.
Mussina Update:
Rehab start Friday for Double A Trenton if all goes well will start May 3rd vs. Rangers

Jim A.,

Do you believe the feeling that Pavano's problem is that he just doesn't want to play baseball or do you think these injuries are as bad as he makes them out to be?

Hughes: 4.2 IP, 8 H, 7 R, 6 ER, 5 BB, 5 K

Yanks lose 13 - 10 behind quality pitching!

Rick,

The reason that no name pitchers are allowed to throw 120 pitches is because the teams don't care about their long term futures.

Hughes has not thrown more than 90 pitches in any start this year, the Yankees are not going to jack him up well over that. Certainly not in a week when we have seen Rich Harden go on the DL, Mark Prior go out for the year.

My call of 5 innings 3 runs is based on the fact that he is essentially jumping from AA to the majors against a good hitting Toronto team and the feeling that his nerves might be a little piqued due to the situation (first start, Yankee stadium, team on a losing skid)

Hey Rick ! Let's send Myers & Farnsworth & prospect to the Phils for Barajas & Lieber or Garcia .Whatcha think?

Chip,
I think Pavano is not really interested in playing anymore.
Somebody asked for an update on him today and I read this morning that he threw from flat ground and reported "soreness" not pain. He said he could not determine how long he would be out but it doesn't sound like he will be back any time soon.
He is probably too busy living like a young, single millionaire to put in the work.

From Eiland:

Hughes will sit at 91-93 touch 94 but will throw the change-up for strikes and his curveball was rated the best pitch in the Eastern league last year.

Has the make up that will make him special in that he's unflappable and if he gets roughed up his make up will have him chomping at the bit to get the ball again and do better.

Bottom line - I don't think we'll see him back in Scranton - he could use a little more time in the minors but he's as close to ready as anyone. He only has thrown 250 innings combined since being drafted so the team won't make him throw a lot of innings and will shut him down at some point, just to protect his arm, but he's ready for the situation.

I agree with Rick - stop babying the pitchers! I don't know what the reality is, but it SEEMS to me like only a handful of SPs crack the 200 inning mark these days. Veteran pitchers who have been around the league for a long time - Clemmens, RJ, Schilling, Maddux, Glavine - all threw 225+ innings per year on a regular basis when they were in their 20s. A durable pitcher is a durable pitcher. On the other hand, you have guys like Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Carl Pavano, etc. who, no matter how much you baby them, will always land on the DL. Bottom line, if the kid can pitch, let him pitch!

Pavano doesn't have an Athletes body.He has a history of injury dating back to his days w/ Montreal.
Bad business decision !I hope the Yanks aren't leaning on Pavano for anything,he's proven his mettle over and over again.

Jim,

I get the impression that it is because Pavano can't be counted on to return that Hughes is up. If the Yankees thought Pavano would be back in a week or two they would not have brought Hughes up - but I tend to think they feel as you do, that this guy doesn't have the desire to pitch anymore and so he probably won't be back until the All-Star game at the soonest (I don't think he comes back at all) so they might as well give Hughes the chance to Wally Pip him.

Dave S.

It's a catch 22. Teams see what happened to Prior and Wood - and before them the Met trio of Izzy, Pulsipher and Paul Wilson, who were asked to throw a ton of pitches and innings in their first couple of years and want to avoid that - remember, starting pitching is the biggest commodity in the sport and young starting pitchers are looked at as long term investments more than players - Sometimes letting a pitcher throw a bunch works out (Verlander) but more often than not, the players who are asked to throw a lot wind up on the DL with long term issues - Prior, Wood, Harden. And yeah, there are even some young pitchers who are brought along slowly who seem to have problems staying healthy - Felix Hernandez.

Ruse,

There are a lot of bad body guys who have managed to stay healthy (Sabathia, Boomer, Maddux, Ponson) I think more than a lack of an athlete's body he lacks an athlete's mentality. He wants to feel 100% every time he throws the ball, but no one feels 100% all the time - most players gut out the pain or learn to recognize the difference between being hurt and being injured - Pavano is like the guy in the office who calls in sick with a sore throat or a runny nose.

Chip:

Re: Dave Eiland. I know it's not a big deal, but since you called Eiland a "scab"- I wanted to make sure it is accurate.

I recall Eiland pitching on terrible Yankee teams in the late 80s- early 90s. He was usually on the Columbus shuttle, but I think he flirted with a no-hitter in one start. I believe he was traded to San Diego in the early 90s.

The only year in which MLB used "scab" or replacement players was spring training in 1995. Unless he attempted a comeback and crossed the picket line that year, I don't recall him returning to the Yankees.

I could be wrong about 1995, but I know that he was more than a replacement player- he put in a few years, I would think 1988-1992. Anybody else remember him?

Sabathia scares me .I don't see him lasting for long.Maddux is a tremendous athlete who doesn't look like one.
I guess what I meant to say is Pavano is brittle.Much in the same way Rick Harden has turned out to be.

cs07 - absolutely, Eiland looked great in his first start up (might have been against Milwaukee?) but he never amounted to much

Cs07 :
You are right .Eiland was on the Columbus shuttle 88-91 pitched for San Diego 92-93 back w/ NY in 1995.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/eilanda01.shtml

Eiland did pitch for the Yankees in 1995 and I distinctly remember that there was tension surrounding him due to the fact that he was used as a replacement player that year (for the record, Shane Spencer was almost a scab player but Buck realized he was a good player and so he sent him home so that he wouldn't get the stigma of "scab")

I was so wrong - sorry guys, the scab pitcher who came up in 1995 was Dave Pavlas - my mistake.

No scab players in 1995.The season was a 144 games long.

It's good to see we have some fans on here who were yankee fans before the ALDS of 1995! We remember names like Dave Eiland, Hensley Meulens, Oscar Azocar etc!

Something else to think about- Phil Hughes was born in 1986- how old is everybody feeling now!

should the yankees trade for Harden??

Ruse

the 95 season was 144 games long because the players and owners reached an agreement the last week of March- so after a shortened spring training, the season started in late April. But before the agreement, the owners opened camps as usual in february with replacement players. Most were cut loose when the regulars came back, but some were retained and were "persona non gratas" in clubhouses.

Ruse,

I think they started Spring training with replacement players then pulled the plug on it - the players who participated in that early Spring Training were considered scabs - here are a couple of clips from the NYTimes about Pavlas.

The Yankees injected a serious wrinkle today into a season that has hardly been smooth when they recalled Dave Pavlas, a relief pitcher from Class AAA Columbus who defied the players association and his 24 new teammates this past spring by pitching for New York's replacement team. In attempting to elevate their bullpen with a reliever who had a 0.00 earned run average in 11 innings of replacement games in March, the Yankees might have stepped on the toes of their regular players. When the player...
July 8, 1995

Dave Pavlas, the replacement relief pitcher who was called a "scab" by Don Mattingly and shunned by the Yankees during his first stint with them in July, will rejoin New York from Class AAA when major league rosters are expanded today. Mindful that Pavlas's presence could be the kind of distraction that a replacement player has been in undermining the Los Angeles Dodgers this week, Manager Buck Showalter spoke with Mattingly and David Cone.
September 1, 1995

Hughes is the youngest player to pitch for the Yankees since Jose Rijo

I don't see tonight's game listed for TV. Does anyone know if the game will be on Directv and if so what channel?

Anonymous:
You been reading Buster Olney ? Harden is a great talent.Beane would never trade Harden this season especially to the Yanks.Adam Melhuse might be available.A's sent him down to Triple A and he's pissed about it.

Rick - I don't think the game is on YES - in NY it is on channel 9 - so wherever you watch Yankee games that are on that channel is where you will find it tonight.

Chip:
You are right my friend!
My memory has faded.

Ruse - maybe take two headaches off Beane's plate with Melhuse and Halsey - problem is, Beane wanted Duncan and Hughes for Mark Kotsay, can't imagine what he would want for Melhuse - probably Tabata and Joba Chamberlain.

As long as you memory is good enough to remember that I'm right - it's all good!

can you remember the scab lineup ? hahaha

I remember the 1b and some others

Chip:
Melhuse can be had relatively cheap.I think Halsey has a cranky elbow.What do you think about the Yanks going after Barajas ? Ruiz is doing most of the catching and they have Coste and Jarmarillo at Triple A.

Chip

My comments on the pitchers wasn't meant for tonight's game directly. I'm talking about in general, our pitchers are babied, not conditioned to throw 120 pitches, and the expectations bar is set so low, that we never get enough out of them and then the bullpen gets fried. There's an historic pattern to this and it needs to be changed.

What I am saying is that a whole new mental and physical approach needs to be taken where they are conditioned from ST on to throw 120 pitches and let it be known that they are EXPECTED to give the team a solid 7 innings everytime out. Other teams do it and it works fine, so why can't Yankee pitchers do the same? After all, these guys are supposed to be the cream of the crop of ML pitchers.

As long as we're on the topic, check out this page - pretty interesting to see who the scabs were more than 10 years later - some were alright major leaguers.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/replacement_players.shtml

4 1/3, 3 runs, 2 Ks, 3 BBs.

No decision.

In other words, just like every other Yankee starter this year.

Chip

Channel 9 is CBS in NY isn't it? If it is, I am screwed. CBS Cleveland would not give me a waiver to get CBS NY. Fox did, but the rest of them wouldn't. So, the only regular NY channel I can get is Directv channel 88 which is Fox 5 NY. Just peachy, no I can't see Hughes debut!

Rick

I agree with you that in general pitchers are babied - for this team in particular though it isn't always practical to think that the pitchers are going to throw more than 100 pitches.

Andy has had elbow issues so they want to at least start him out slow and let him build up to bigger pitch counts

Moose over the last couple of years has stated his stuff just leaves him after 100 pitches - whether that is physical or mental I don't know - I'm not a huge Mussina fan so I'm just going to leave it alone and assume that at this point in his career they are not going to get him to throw more than 100 pitches

Wang doesn't often need more than 100 pitches and he also has had shoulder issues

As for the others, well I've seen what Igawa, Karstens and Rasner have done throwing 100 pitches - I don't know that I want to see them throw 20 more in a game.

Rick:
I think MLB in general has got to look at pitchers training practices,it might do them well to learn from the Japanese.
Pitchers injuries have started to reach epidemic proportions.
This current crisis needs to be addressed.

Rick, it isn't CBS - it is MY 9 or something like that - used to be UPN

Ruse,
It would be funny to see the Yanks get Barajas only because every Blue Jays pitcher would probably try to knock his block off after the nonsense he and his agent pulled this winter.

Rick : For Yankee games not carried in your area (Ohio?) it might do you good to resort to the next best thing,XM radio.

Chip

I just think they need to be better overall conditioned to be able to give the team innings when the necessity arises. Other teams don't seem to fry their bullpens like we do. Sometimes, a SP needs to be able to take one for the team.

Jim A.;
Refresh my memory ! In essence what did Barajas say?

Ruse,
Barajas agreed to terms with the Blue Jays on a 3 year deal and then backed out at the lat minute. Blue Jay management did not have nice things to say about Barajas or his agent at the time.

How does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot and I stalk you to every single yankee blog there is, jy?

Can't take what you dish out?

Rick,

I agree, sometimes a pitcher just needs to go out there and take one for the team.

It is the downside though to having such a prolific offense - even if the pitcher gives up 5 runs in the first couple of innings Torre probably believes that if he can get the pitcher out of there and stop giving up runs the Yankees have the bats that they can come back and win.

ruse

Thanks for the tip, but I will probably just watch the running box score on the internet.

I personally would trade Farnsworthless and Myers and Pavano as a package for a class A prospect right now. It would be addition by subtraction. If anybody would take on their contracts, I would literally give them away for nothing! They are wastes of body heat not to mention valuable roster spots.

Returning to pre-1995,I remember watching a Yankee game one Sunday afternoon in 1968 ? Stottlemyre was getting knocked around abit,I recall Rizzuto saying something like"he's taking one for the team" .Well it ended up Stottlemyre pitches a complete game give up 11 hits 5 runs,saved a depleted bullpen.You never see that kinda thing anymore.

MP3 - Mike and Mad Dog interview Hughes' pitching Coach Dave Eiland!

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TRKPAJKY

Chip

That's my point too. Just tell the SP he is going 7 tonight no matter what the score is. With our offense, even if he gives up 5 runs, we still have a good shot at winning the game.

The problem is our guys can't seem to go 5 innings without giving up 10 runs. How do other teams pitchers manage to out perform our guys every night?

Ruse

If the Yankee offense wasn't as good as it is, I think you would see Joe be more willing to let one of his starters get blown up - but like I said, I think he believes that if he can get a reliever in there and stop the bleeding early the offense is good enough that it can chip away.

The problem is that this burns out the relievers and so when he calls on them the next time, they don't stop the bleeding as well - like using the same paper towel to try and soak up several spills in a row - it progressively gets less and less effective. And so even when the offense does chip away, the gassed relievers aren't able to hold their ground anymore so you wind up with a 10-7 loss.

Chip:
Good paper towel analogy.Ehm.
I'm tired of this crap it's time to bring Girardi in.I liked the way he worked his starters last yr for Florida.

Rick - it is entirely possible that Karstens, Igawa and Rasner are just not very good pitchers.

It goes back to an argument you and I had early on - Karstens and Rasner looked very good in spots last year - but just like scouting reports caught up to Chacon and Small maybe they caught up to them too. Then again maybe Karstens just had a bad start coming off the DL and his next start will be better - there's a lot to be said for the fact that he maybe rushed off the DL and was thrown into the fire in Boston.

Again, Chase Wright wasn't very good but I'm not lumping him in with the above group because of his lack of experience.

ruse

Good point! These guys need to understand their role and what is expected of them. They come out and nibble their way to 100 pitches in 4 innings and then look to the bullpen.

Start throwing strike one, get ahead of the batters, and let them get theirselves out. Throw it over the plate and let the defense work. It's like they try to be too perfect all the time. Just come out and challenge people, stop the nibbling.

Chacon presently is pitching great baseball for Pittsburgh.He actually looks in shape.

Does Jorge call the game or does Torre ? Anyone .

Ruse,

I think Girardi would be a fantastic choice to replace Joe. The direction this team is going is younger - we've talked about all the players who have contracts that come up in the next couple of years and lots of prospects on the rise. Girardi did a fantastic job as a teacher for those young players and I think that is what the team needs going forward - the only question I would have is about using someone who is so close to so many of the current players - I still believe the right move is to get a Girardi TYPE - from outside the organization - either a Buddy Bell or someone like that who has experience working well with young players and can serve as a manager/teacher rather than just the massager of egos that Torre is.

Ruse

I think the game is called by a combination of Joe, Gator, Jorge and the pitcher - depending on the pitcher and the situation.

I happen to disagree.No need to massage athletes egos & w/ all the young talent coming thru the pipeline the Yanks need a manager who looks wide-eyed and enthusiastic.Girardi handled the 96-98 pitching staffs.He would make a great unofficial pitching coach.

Chip:
Excuse me I misread your above post.

Chip

I stiil think Karstens is a serviceable ML P and I think Wright might pan out too. Igawa is not ML material.

Jim A and I said that we had a bad feeling about him way back before they signed him. Now, we are stuck with that contract for the next 4 years. And the big discussion over the winter was the new Yankee approach about not giving long term contracts to older or over the hill veterans.

Well, what's the difference if they give a bad contract to a younger guy that's never proven himself in the majors, like Igawa? They shouldn't be giving guys like him long term contracts either.

I still say Lilly was a better investment as a #4 SP. The Yankees never even made him an offer. They could of at least offered him a 2 year deal with a team option for the 3rd year. Then, the ball would have been back in his court. And, my big point was that he was a PROVEN AL East pitcher who won 15 games for Toronto, while Igawa had never thrown 1 pitch over here. And Cashman gives him a 4 year deal...big mistake! And my fear is that they are going to keep running him out there because of that contract. A bigger mistake!!!

I saw a shot of the dugout the other night where Guidry was flashing signs to the catcher for which pitch to throw. So, apparently, he is calling the game. Now, perhaps JT is telling Guidry which pitch and he is just doing the signs???

No worries - you and I agree then - Torre is a good manager for a good veteran team. The Yankees in the next couple of years are going to be integrating young players (Miranda, Sardinha, Tabata, Hughes, Olendorf, et al) I think they already have a couple of good instructors on the team in Kerrigan, Pena and Bowa - I know nothing about Long or really Gator or Donnie for that matter - the next manager should be a Joe Maddon, Buddy Bell type teacher too. One who knows that young players are going to struggle at times, but will stick with them.

I'm not suggesting a manager who accepts losing, but one who knows how to win and also knows how to teach on the job.

I am certain Mattingly is going to be the next manager. He is not the best choice though. Girardi would be much better, and I even like Pena more than Girardi.