On the Yankees beat

Why is Mike Meyers even on this team? We pay this man to pitch to one hitter a week? Isn't this a waste of a roster spot? We could have Karla come in and give the same results as Meyers does. Please dump this man asap. As for Toore...I look at him and see how much he has changed over the years. He is like a fat kid who already ate his cake. He won his rings and now I think he sleeps in the dugout. He hardly shows life during the game. He never argues calls and he abuses the pen way to much. As for Mo I believe there might be some injury to him of some sort. I do not believe it is age because in Spring Training he was lights out. He is not throwing his hardest as it was clear on the gun tonight. Bottom line we should have won but this is only April and if Sox fans wanna celebrate that let them. We will be in the playoffs and we all know as Yankee faithfuls deep down inside we will be fine. Lets get all these injures out of the way now so in October we can light Schilling up when it matters.

the yanks will be fine..

Matsui back on Monday, alot of injuries at present. torre has to figure out which relievers he will use when... Vizciano has had 2 bad outings in a row.....

Mo has gone through stretches like this before...just last year I believe...so I'm not concerned about that.

My biggest concern is Joe Torre and his declining ability to manage and increasingly getting out-maneuvered and out-managed.

The Yankees basically have one more thing working against them: Joe Torre.

I agree with all this stuff. We will be fine it is still April. We have won some we should have lost and lost some we should have won: Like this one. Mo needs more work to build up arm strength, and work in that slider he has worked on? Time to go to third pitch just to keep them honest. When he does not hit spots he gets hit: they are sitting on cutter. Joe has been spoiled, needs to let starters go deeper. Then pen will not be burnt out. Myers needs to go, he does nothing but eat up roster space. Bring up a reliever that will make LH's move there feet. And pitch to more than one hitter.

As a Sox fan I'm not celebrating....or over-celebrating this game. It was nice to see the Sox rally against Rivera. Not something we see often, although hen has more blown saves against the Sox than any other team (12).

Schilling struggled against a very very good lineup but pitched decently, although I dont know what he was thinking throwing Arod that fastball on the outside black that resulted in his second dinger.....Clearly Arod was sitting on fastball...stupid pitch in my opinion. Arod is utterly incredible....locked in and bashing.

Pettite appears to have lost nothing....he pitched well and as usual held the Sox from scoring runs. He has a knack for that.

It's April....it's early, but as a Sox fan, I'll take it....nice stirring comeback when it appeared the game was over. So, that's one.....

Beckett on the hill today. Should be another great game.

Another game where clueless snatches defeat out of the jaws of victory.

A post-game analysis of Mo's pitching revealed that his location was faulty. His velocity was fine, he had good stuff, but his location was consistently too high in the zone (a pitch Mariano usually reserves for 0-2 counts). This was attributed to lack of decent save work thus far this season, since good location comes with practice.

Of course, this has happened to Mo before. When he blows saves, they are often clumped together. My husband and son declared Mo extinct about 4 years ago when he fell into a similar slump. I pointed out that all players, even pitchers, have slumps and he will rebound. The rest is Mariano history.

I was glad to see Andy outdo Schilling because it bodes well for the future. I notice that he seems not to have lost his taste for high-pressure situations, and though he didn't look all that smooth he knew how to do what he had to do.

The velocity is not the concern right now with Mo. It's the location, and more importantly, his movement. Both have not been there the last few games. He has not been used right so far this season (4 and 5 games in between appearances) which could explain the ineffectiveness. I have no doubt that his location will come around, but I worry about the devastating movement of that cutter.
The fact that Posada has not come out with his usual statements about 'Mo is still Mo" or "his stuff is still great" bothers me.
That said, he looked great in ST and early this Season - you don't lose that touch overnight.
Whatever happens, I am thankful for the privelege of watching the greatest closer in baseball history and a truly classy gentlemen.
Seeing him for his entire career makes me beleive that Mo still has some great relief appearances left in him!

"In every adversity there lies the seed of an equivalent advantage. In every defeat there is a lesson showing you how to win the victory next time. "

It seems no one is paying attention to how we blasted Schilling. We were hitting him consistently. There were at least six long balls that were caught at the track, which would have been home runs in many other ballparks. We brought his pitch count up very quickly. Boston is claiming they "conquered" Mo on their website, but they don't mention how the Yankees conquered their "almighty," thus-far nearly impeccable, Schilling.

Fingers off the panic buttons everyone.

Yes, Torre's decision making these last two games has certainly been questionable - we all know that he is not at his best when determining how to use his relievers - but just as I don't believe A-Rod is going to average nearly a home run a game, I also don't believe that Mariano is going to finish up this season with an ERA in the 8's.

Mo has had tough starts to the season in the past (remember the back to back blown saves against Boston two years ago - when fans actually booed him??)

Would it have been nice to get a win last night? Of course - but I don't believe these next two games are unwinable. Beckett is off to a fine start, but he was off to a fine start last year too before he imploded and Dice-K has had trouble with average lineups so facing the Yankees shouldn't be a picnic for him.

I think the most important thing that needs to happen is Torre needs to stop outthinking himself. He's getting too nervous too soon with his young starters and his relievers.

He was on Mike and the Mad Dog yesterday and was asked why the quick hook for Rasner in the game against the Indians, "We knew Rasner was going to have to be rescued at some point during that inning so we figured that we should just get him out there." Why? Why would you figure that a pitcher who hadn't given Cleveland much to that point was going to need rescuing? Would you have felt the same with Andy or Mussina? Joe needs to realize that just because a player hasn't done it before doesn't mean he can't do it now.

And I know Torre will say that Farnsworth wasn't in in the 8th last night because they don't want to use him in back to back games, and Mo hadn't thrown in 5 days so two innings wasn't going to burn him out - and in retrospect he only threw one inning anyway - but breaking the promise about using him in the 8th this early in the season tells me that despite the early successes of Bruney and Henn (both of whom were available) he still doesn't really trust anyone down there other than Mo. That's a much bigger problem than Rivera blowing the save.

LathamJoe - Posada was not available for comment last night - he was taken to the hospital for precautionary x-rays on his thumb.

I'm sure if he had been there you would have heard the "Mo is still Mo" comments from him.

Chip,

I'm curious to your reaction to Torre putting Rivera into the game with one out in the 8th.

REMINDER: Before last night's game, Mo converted 9 of his last 10 save opportunities against Boston.

Last night after the game this blog seemed dominated, as so often after NYY losses, by posts which could be summarized as, "We lost so fire ___________________ [fill in latest scapegoat]".

Today, as so often recently, the trolls rule this space.

Getting unpleasantly predictable.

What to do?

Well, it's obvious school is out today and the kiddies are spending their day on the Yankees Forum. I don't blame the kids for being obsessed with the Yankees. There is no greater team in the world. What better way to spend their day? Time to leave this playground while the rude, classless brats tear up the place. Too bad mommy isn't around to give them cookies and milk. I'll be back when the intelligent grown-ups return and the kiddies are napping.

C Schilling- 7 innings/8 hits/5 runs/5 er's/1 walks/5 k's/ 103 pitches

A. Pettite- 6.1 innings/8 hits/2 runs/2 er's/2 walks/3 k's/ 100 pitches

I'd say the lines are very similar with the exception of the two dingers by Arod...who no one is getting out, or keeping in the park. As I said earlier...the second dinger was on a stupid pitch by Schilling...he should of been throwing off-speed stuff in that situation.

Pettite looked good...hasnt lost anything..but he was hittable....he managed to wiggle out of it where Schilling did not. Typical when Andy pitches against the Sox...he is a Sox killer.

Last week people were banging Francona for using Papelbon in the 8th with one out....which worked out quite well for the Sox, that time, I'm curious as to how people feel about Torre using Rivera in the same situation? Personally, I think it was the right move....bring in the guy who can put out the fire before it starts to rage out of control. Rivera wont cough it up like last night very often....he is still the best ever.

On paper the game last night was probably the game that the Yanks should have won...or at least had the best chance of winning, based on starting pitching. "On paper" is a very subjective term. In spite of Beckett dominace so far, there aint no sure thing against a lineup as pulverizing as the Yanks. so we'll see.

As far as Dice-K, I disagree with Chip's analysis...Dice-K has not struggled in the least...he has been outpitched by 2 phenomenal efforts, one a almost no hitter, the other a 3 hitter. Dice-K has been, if anything, better than advertised. If he gets any run support he will be amongst league leaders in most pitching catagories.

uh huh... Mo is washed up he has an absurd ERA... right.... Last time i checked Proctor's ERA went from somewhere around 8 to under 3 in a week. Its so early that numbers are meaningless. Beckett will give up 6 runs tonight and his ERA will get back around where it belongs. I'm calling it right now just wait and see.

Rivera's biggest problem right now is the Yankees are either winning big or losing so he isn't working regularly enough.

My bigged problem thus far has been Torre. As much as i love his record or success I'm really starting to question his abilities. There was no reason to take Meyer's out last night. He's been one of the best guys in the Pen against Righties and Lefties, as they said on the air he should have pitched through Drew not just Ortiz. Even though the Pen is deep it can't sustain this kindof abuse... Proctor's arm is going to fall off and everyone else will slowly become ineffective. [And for the love of god PLEASE trade Farnsworth...]

Everyone relax. Ever notice how whenever Sox rally against Mo, it's a string of bloopers ? A ground ball triple - give me a break !

Bill Mueller, Trot Nixon, David Ortiz.....all the cause of blown saves for Rivera...bloopers?...blooped out of the park.

Observer,

Over the last 5 years I have routinely questioned Torre's use of his bull pen - he got spoiled by the success of Nelson, Mendoza and Stanton as a bridge to Rivera and so when other relievers prove to not be as infalible he has a quick hook - so I wasn't shocked that Rivera was brought in to the game in that situation, I wasn't happy about it, but it did not shock me.

As I said, it can be looked at in two ways, in the glass half full mode, Rivera blew the save so he didn't have to throw two innings, but glass half empty side points to a bigger problem and that is that Torre - after professing all spring that Rivera was going to be a one inning pitcher was willing to get away from that this early in the season with other arms available to him in the pen (Henn, Britton, Bruney, Bean), that he does not have faith in his young (Rasner) or new (Vizciano) pitchers to get out of trouble and also that the Yankees are 15 games into the season and already there are a lot of relievers who need time off because they are being overused.

What will be of interest to me is how long or short the leash is with Karstens and Wright these next two games - given everything I said above, will Torre yank these guys at the first hint of trouble or will he give them a chance to grow as players and build confidence by working out of trouble - even if they can't work out of a jam, that can help a player grow too. Overall I would want to see him let the guys throw at least 100 pitches or 6/7 innings - Red Sox or not, some times you have to lose a battle to win a war and burning out the pen in April is not conducive to the long term success of the team.

Observer,

I'm curious how you feel about JD Drew getting Nixon's #7? To me that seems like giving a free agent Bernie's number 51.

Great synopsis Chip.

I have to agree with you.

It does seem a bit odd when you consider how well the entire bp for the Yanks has preformed so far this season. Of course the big concern is the number of innings logged at such an early date....but the preformances have been sterling.

I didn't see the game, only the "highlights". It didn't seem that Mo got hit hard. I don't know why Doug M. was playing "off" the line, in that situation. A team normally protects both lines in order to prvent a ball from going down into the corner. I also have said numerous times that the "drawn in" infield is the absolutely worst play in all of baseball 95% of the time. That "hit" over Jeter, was Luis Gonzalez all over again.

Chip,

I hadnt thought about it before. Nixon was certainly a crowd favorite of RSN, and one of my personal favorites.

To be honest, I guess the number really doesnt mean much to me...and probably it should. I guess I wouldnt like it if he were to wear the number of some of the other icons...ie Yaz/Williams/Fisk...etc. I'm not sure that Trot quite fits that mold. He was a gritty, blue collar player who was loved by the fans....but his numbers were really quite pedestrian.

I think I'm ok with Drew wearing 7.

Good question....I reserve the right to change my mind on this once I've considered it for awhile.

Sleeping Joe needs to go! I've had enough of his stupid decisions. He is truly clueless as to how you run a baseball team. The only thing he is good at is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

What I'm hoping is that when Wang, Mussina and Pavano (yes Pavano) return they can give Torre enough pitchers he is comfortable with so that the pen will get used less often. That said, Mussina is now a 5 inning pitcher so we know at least in his starts the pen could be pressed into action.

The other issue I have is that going into this season Cashman gave Torre a roster with 7 relievers so that he wouldn't have to use the same guys over and over again - what is the point of that if Torre only has faith in 2 of them?

People who wanted Bernie back should be ticked about that - not the platoon at first - Bernie lost his job because the Yankees needed an extra pitcher - a pitcher Joe isn't using anyway.

Rick,

I've said it a couple of times, I think we all know that Torre is gone after this year, either by his own choice or by the Boss not giving him a new contract. The problem with that is I don't believe that a manager who knows he is in his last season with a team doesn't always have the long term interests of the team in mind.

Here's the only reason I can think of as to why Proctor was pulled. Joe knows he has two young pitchers going the next two games and maybe he was trying to save each reliever for what will turn out to be longer stretches over the next two days. This doesn't explain the Mo decision, the only thing I can think of for that decision is maybe Joe felt the tide turning and hoped Mo could stop it.
I'm as mad as anyone about this game. I didn't get much sleep because the Yankees lost this game, the Sox didn't win it. It's a great, confidence building game for the Sox as they head into the next two games against unproven "rookies".
Mo is usually wild early in the season and he has faced Boston so much they pretty much know him by now. I just wish he hadn't blown THAT game. Mo- blow one or two againt the Rangers, A's etc. but not the Sox!
Mo better get his sh*t together poste haste.

Chip,
From my pespective the Sox may have better starting pitching this season. It sure appears to be the case, but that said, I agree with you. The Yanks with a healthy Wang,Moose,Pettite,Pavano, Igiwa have a pretty damn solid rotation.....couple that with that absolutey terrifying offense and there is just no way that the Yanks wont be in the mix for the post season come the end of Sept. Personally, I hope it comes down to the Sox and Yanks duking it out...we've had that conversation before.

to all the "don't panic" people...

as i said before, criticizing and dicussing several glaring issues on the yankee team does not equal panic. ignoring warning signs and hiding behind "everything is perfect" approach is living in denial.

1) torre is a terrible in-game manager (have been saying that forever, not due to yesterday). he lost the game last night 2 days ago against cleveland when he yanked rasner after 81 pitches (come on) and burnt the bullpen for 4.2 innings. he's on pace to burn this bullpen completely by mid-may, which will be a record even for him. managing pitching should be taken away from him, done by guidry, donnie or bloody jessica steinbrenner.
every single decision he made backfired, but it's not only the decision - it's the flawed thinking behind them.

2) by bringing mo in torre sent a message of urgency about the game since he broke his famous promise (15 games into the season, great patience). therfore this lost is a huge blow morally because torre signaled its importance. he also sent a massive vote of non-confidence for basically the entire bullpen. and he should be this great motivator who knows the players' spirit.

3) i wrote this 6 months ago, i've been thinking it since 2004 - torre is done. he's got nothing left, no desire, and his play-calling has sunk to new lows. the yankees always aspire for greatness - having the best hitters, best pitchers, best system - that's always the aspiration. so how come they settle for a manager who's not even in the top 10 in baseball.
and come out all you "no panic" head office drones and write honestly that you believe that torre is one of the best managers in baseball. no one in his right and OBJECTIVE mind can say that. think about tony la russa, jim lyland and that brand of managers.
la russa won a WS with weaver and suppan pitching!! torre has the richest team in baseball and yet is full of excuses (weather, injuries, bad luck).
bottom line - the yankees win despite their manager, trying to overcome his constant mistakes.

4) i'll keep writing it until it sinks in. the sox have a HUGE advantage in the closer position. it's funny how all the bloggers who tow the company line here were all praising cashman for disconnecting bernie ("it's a business, not a sentimental choice") are unwilling to fathom the fact that age may be catching up with other yankees, like mo. why? because cashman didn't tell to think it?
if you got or get a chance to watch papelbon you'll understand. he is now where k-rod was in 2002 when no one could even get wood on his pitches.
if he comes in today or tomorrow you'll see. k after k after k. inherited runs scoring? no chance. sad, but true.

Joe hit the "panick button". Just another sign he's getting old, and feeling insecure about his job.

Jim A.,

I was actually looking for Rivera's career stats against the Sox....I know he has more blown saves against them than any other team. That may be due, at least in part, to the fact they face each other so much. I wasnt able to ascertain exactly what I was looking for, but it appears that Rivera is either completely "lights out" agianst the Sox (which is more often than not) or he is completely rocked. The closest thing I could find to a career percentage was thru 05 in which Rivera has converted 64% of his save opps against the Sox...by far his worst percentage of any team.

Although I was not able to see the game (damn classes at the university!) Seeing the highlights and hearing comments by my dad, brother and brother-in-law,
Why wasn’t Bruney in that game for the 8th?!?! He’s been lights out since we picked him up last year!! And I also thought the same as Rick reading the comments here, who’s going to catch if Phelps had batted??
And yes, it’s still April, and we have a long way to go, but all games count and if the division is decided by one game, this could come back to hunt us.

GIL L-
Mo didn't get hit hard. Stop dancing on the man's grave. He still has many years of effective "closing" in him. The Torre situation you sight is valid, but he is definitely Cashman's choice, and is therefore going to manage the Yanks the entire year come hell or highwater. Get yourself some Tums, and "enjoy" today's gme.

Gil is correct about Papelbon.

I've watched every pitch he has thrown since he came to the show....so far this year he is just unbelievable. Absolutely locked in and loaded...almost superhuman. Now, I've probably jinxed him.

Casual

Like I said before, although I didn’t match the game, so I could be wrong here (gonna try and make this a general rule), but don’t ever compare pitching lines and say that they were even. Many things happen in a game (i.e. great plays, errors, etc, etc…) that don’t translate into pitching lines, yes, it’s a tool to see how their day was, but not the only way to compare them.

roy

i'm definitely not saying mo is terrible or dancing on his grave as you so bluntly put it. read again please. i said the sox have the better closer, and mo is probably the second best. i didn't write a SINGLE negative word about mo. we are all used to having the best closer in baseball, as he has been, but papelbon is better, whether you like or not. and i wrote that more than a week ago before either of mo's blown saves.

question for debate

who would you rather have facing ortiz in a clutch situation (and then ramirez et al...)?

myers, proctor, henn, vizcaino, farnswoth?

(not in a save situation)

GIL L-
"Age may be catching up", those are your very own words in regard to Mo. I'll leave it at that.

Well alvaro,

I did see the game. So I feel I can make that statement regarding the pitching lines of the two starting pitching.

The reason I made that comment was in response to a post that dipicted
Schilling as getting hammered by the Yanks, while Pettite was pitching so much better. This was not the case. Both pitchers pitched decent, Pettie was able to make the pitch, or get the play to prevent more runs from scoring than the 2 he gave up....Schilling gave up two bombs to Arod...the second of which, in my opinion, chould have and could have been avoided.

Casual

I did see the comment and that's why I responded, as a general rule. On the matter on comparing them, I'll get back to you later and try to see other comments till making a response.

There were no particularly spectacular defensive plays by either team, although there was almost a "play of the year" caliber type play by Crisp. So, both defenses played solid ball, made the plays they should have, with the one exception of a high throw (by Jeter I think) that pulled the 1Bman off the bag, which was ruled a hit...and probagbly should ahve been...so no errors were made.

Boston gidp's twice, the Yanks none. Boston left 6 runners on base, the Yanks 8. Boston and the Yanks both had one double, the Sox had a triple. The Yanks had two dingers, the Sox one. There were no stolen bases although Cora was caught stealing on a blown hit and run play.

So, as well as the almost identical pitching lines...the two teams almost matched each other in every other facet while the starting pitching was in.

Pretty even matchup by any account.

Where is that PaulTM Dandrufff?

List Former RedsoxPlayers I don't trust in big spots against their Former team.

Johnny Damon went 0-4 against his former team. Darn, I have to wait three more years before his contract runs out.

Mike Myers give up lead off double to Ortiz.. He's waste on the Roster. Thanks for blowing the game Mike Myers. I hate you, Idiot..

I have no faith in that Mike myers. he is now 3-12 with 1HR anyone else absolutely shocked by that it seems so much more lopsided in Ortiz's favor

In this series, nothing is shocking." – Mike Myers

My advice to Myers, Please Go back to Boston...

Any pain we feel after last night's game is caused by a hit to our ego and a loss of pride -- not those late inning hits so common in baseball and the loss of Game 15.

Kat, each IP address should be entitled to one screen name so that our identities won't be forged by mentally ill antagonists. When my name is used falsely, I consider it harassment and defamation of character in some instances. The trolls who post non-stop nonsensical, idiotic comments could be banned from the site via their unique IP address. Their IP address can only be traced if the harassment becomes serious enough.

CORRECTION: Their IP address can ALSO be traced...

I usually just ignore Met fans because they are a joke. I love how they come on our blog and write about Mo when there boy Wagner blows more than a crackhead. They are second class citizens in New York and they will always be 2nd to the pinstripes. Don't you see a pattern? Met fans are Islanders fans and you see how they are treated in the NHL. Like a joke! My message to all you idiot Met bloggers on here worry about beating the Braves because they look like they still own you!Enjoy your 5 cent coke nights at Shea you second class citizens.

Observer - it's still early yet and it needs to be pointed out that with four of the Yankee's top six pitchers on the DL as well as an All-Star outfielder the team is 8-7 and holding its own.

Right now, I can't argue, Sox starting rotation is better. That said there is many a slip between the cup and the lip and the season has a long way to go yet.

All that said - lets see what happens - Last year the Yankees started off a lot worse than this.

Rangers win Cup Yankees Rule East in 07.

I couldnt agree more Chip.

Well Said Chip. Still to early to panic. With all the injuries.

I was watching Mets game today, The Thing I Noticed that David Wright copy and wearing High Sock Also.. The Mets are a copycat team

Any predictions for todays game?

I see both Damon and Posada are sitting out todays game....

1. Melky Cabrera, CF
2. Derek Jeter, SS
3. Bobby Abreu, RF
4. Alex Rodriguez, 3B
5. Jason Giambi, DH
6. Robinson Cano, 2B
7. Doug Mientkiewicz, 1B
8. Kevin Thompson, LF
9. Wil Nieves, C

SP - Jeff Karstens

I just heard Posada and Damon are not in the lineup. Does anybody know what happened to Damon? I know Posada has a bruised finger but I am not sure if it is worse than that.

Posada has a bruised and swollen thumb. Damon hurt himself on that sliding catch last night, might have been a hamstring.

Another Yankee OFer with a hammy issue?

It never rains but it pours.

Since this thread relates to Mariano, I thought I'd post this comment in this thread as well:

Another post-game video analysis of Mariano's pitching revealed that he was "opening up" while pitching, causing him to lose control. It was suggested that, if Posada were pitching, he would have seen this anomaly in Mariano and would have corrected the situation before too much damage was done. Evidently, the Red Sox noticed some flaw in his pitching; unfortunately, Nieves did not.