On the Yankees beat

Kat- I've noticed whenever you post a new topic for discussion at night, the comments link works right away, but anything you post during the day doesn't. Weird huh?

Anyway, bye bye Villone. I think his fate is sealed. Torre tried to give him a chance, several in fact.

Not sure why that is. I've been told that someone in the office may have to check out my computer. Unfortunately, that may not be until the second homestand, as I will be at the stadium most days and also have to actually move into my apartment.

You must be having a lot of fun living out of a hotel right now. I travel for work a lot and hotels get old pretty fast to me. Of course, I don't get to hang around the Yankees!

How are the players treating you so far? Who stands out as being the most friendly? I won't ask who is the most unfriendly because I know you won't tell me :)

Phelps,Henn probably made the team.Pratt or Nieves or a trade ?

Ruse,
I wouldn't be surprised to be some sort of trade for a backup catcher. I don't think any of the catchers in camp have really been impressive at all. I'd like to see Ben Davis finally live up to his potential though.

Ben Davis is certainly an enigma.1st rounder who never could get it done.If he hit at all in ST he'd have nailed it...Another thought Ryan Garko might be available 1stbase/catcher...w/Shoppach/Martinez and their 1st base situation solidified ??

Can someone please tell me how the other regulars have been hitting? I can't find any Spring stats. And how have Nieves vs. Pratt been at, and behind, the plate? Thanks!

Steve

The "regulars" other than Melky have all been doing well-to very well-as expected. That's why you haven't heard much. ST is for the pitchers and the newbies and wannabes nomsayin...As far as Nieves and Pratt are concerned they've both been underwhelming but from what I hear from those in the blog and analysts alike Pratt will be the guy.

NO TJ FOR COX

According Peter Abraham's Blog There' will be no Tj for Cox.

Right-hander J.B. Cox had surgery performed on his elbow a few days ago by Dr. James Andrews.

It was not Tommy John surgery as some sites have reported. Brian Cashman said that Cox had a ligament repaired but not replaced, which is what Tommy John surgery is.

This is less invasive surgery and Cox may not necessarily miss the entire season.

Another highly touted young reliever, Mark Melancon, had Tommy John surgery this winter. Now the Yankees will focus on developing Kevin Whelan, one of the players obtained from the Tigers for Gary Sheffield.

I was told today their plan is to use him as a middle reliever in Class AA so he can better learn how to pitch by going mutiple innings. If all goes well, he could become a closer down the road.

Bill Levsky : Add Jose Veras to the list of downed pitching prospects.Bone chip removal.Out 2-3 months

Ruse and Jim A:

Ben Davis got a grand total of 10 (ten) at bats. Was he ever "in the mix" or "on the radar" ??

jim A:

Good questions for Kat. I think I dated her a couple times at Notre Dame. And I'm available if Jennifer Steinbrenner calls. I'm a high energy guy !

I'm guessing Steve Swindal may not have been alone when he was arrested. Just a wild guess.

http://www.khou.com/sports/astros/stories/khou070328_cc_astrosyankees.e3f642f.html

"I tell can you right now, that's a coin flip as far as our decision is going to be," Torre said about carrying two bullpen left-handers. "We've had discussions, but nothing in concrete yet."

Hey Joe, Are you blind ? No decision had made yet? Villone's horrible.

I bet Joe will pick Villone over henn..

Joe's talking to Ny Media - Phillips over Phelps for first base

Villone over Henn as second lefty in the bullpen.. Joe will choose Villone because of his experience and He did a jood job for us in the first half

Pratt over Nieves -

http://www.newsday.com/media/alternatethumbnails/photo/2007-03/28673823.jpg

A picture of Jennifer Steibrenner

ZANDER YOU DATED MINNY AND HER FIVE SISTERS.YOU DIDN'T GO TO ND..YOU PROBABLY WORKED IN THE CAFETERIA AT ND.

After carefully thinking if I would be the successor, here’s what I came up with.

I of course, would be a player/manager/general manager. But I would only play in the late innings of a blow out game, I wouldn’t like Cano to give his spot.
I’m algo going to retire my number, maybe and 50/50 about a monument to be unveiled in monument park 2009 in the new Yankee stadium.
Rick – Your job as the comish in the BBB is too important to give up, but you will be a guest instructor in ST and special annalist to the team.
Jim A - You would be my bench coach. Experience and knowledge of the game is needed there. You could also be the traveling secretary, because I’m gonna re-hired George Costanza as your assistant. Bring back the good old days of the late 90’s.
Roy – You could be my personal spokesman and public relation manager, your ruthless tongue will serve good.
Jim B. – Head of scouting. Your knowledge of the game should come in quit in handy.
Chip – Since I don’t know much about you, I’m gonna let you choose your job, either personal assistant to Mr. Bob Sheppard or something in the front office, haven’t decided yet.
AJ – Third base coach.
Ruse – First Base coach.
Phucker – Batting coach.
Larry M – I need someone who can entertain the rich and the famous like Trump, Billy Cristal, Robin Williams and every A- lister who come up, you interested?
Zander – Can you sing? I hate Kate’s version of God Bless America. Maybe you could pair up with the Irish guy from the opera.
Kat – How would you like to be a reporter for YES, maybe even calling a game or two.
Dave and Andy – Hot dog vendors.

If I’m missing some one, please send my your résumés to my personal assistant “Roy”.

JIM A-- I TRAVEL FOR WORK A LOT.

SURE YOU DO.....YOU JOINED THE CIRCUS. I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE YOU W/O THE RED BALL ATTACHED TO YOUR NOSE.

ALVARO,

LETS CALL THIS NERD FANTASSY.....I HAVEN'T SEEN THIS COLLECTION OF ASSES SINCE THEY CLOSED THE MULE FARM

Pink
I’m gonna do the smart civilized thing and just ignore you, and then I’m gonna ask myself why and where do these morons that just blog nonsense come from? But I guess I’ll never know.

i'm in med school. can I be the team doctor a couple years down the line Alvaro? leave the spot open for me will ya

Sure DG, sounds good; but I'm wishing you are ready right now, Carla Pavano may need you very soon.

Alvaro: I would like the job of public relations with guys such as Billy Cyrstal. It should be a blast. Unfortunately, I may not turn on the charm with the A-holes who have been infiltrating our usually adult atmosphere on this blog.

"Casual Observer" is the REAL A-hole here. He likes the Blow-Sox !

Here's the question I have about a new Yankee successor - Swindal has been one of Cashman's biggest supporters, he helped sway the Boss into the decision that gave Cash total oversight of baseball operations - would someone else, like Hal for example, be willing to stick with that or would a return of the "Tampa Faction" be in the cards.

Andy Phillips, who had been competing with Phelps to platoon at first base with Doug Mientkiewicz, yesterday was placed on outright waivers. The move (which was revealed by a major-league official who asked not to be identified because waivers are confidential) means that by tomorrow Phillips will be claimed by another team or sent to the minors by the Yankees.
http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/1175146037160840.xml&coll=1

Something else, this is directly out of Kat's notebook:

Ron Villone faced three batters last night and did not record an out. He gave up three earned runs on two hits and a walk, and has a 14.40 ERA. Sean Henn, who is competing with Villone for a bullpen spot, allowed a hit and a walk in 1 1/3 shutout innings. Torre said of Villone: "If he wasn't here last year, then it would be tough to even consider him."

And this is my reaction - look at that Torre quote, just look at it. If the only reason Torre takes Villone north is because "he was here last year" that is not a baseball move. Again, Mike and Mad Dog had it exactly right, if Torre looks at the performances of Villone vs. Henn and Phillips vs. Phelps and chooses Villone and Phillips because they were on the team last year, then what is the point of Spring Training? Why let players believe they are competing for spots if you had your mind made up about them before a spring pitch was thrown? This is not just a Joe Torre thing, I think it is a problem that occurs whenever a manager is with a team for too long, he develops loyalties to players he has seen, not just on the major league level, but guys who come to spring camp every year and work their tails off like Phillips has done - they develop these loyalties and don't allow other players into the picture. Same thing happened with Buck in '95 - he clearly had an emerging dominant reliever in Rivera but in Game 5 against the Mariners refused to go to him when Cone wore down because despite what his eyes were telling him, he had implicit trust in Cone based on what Cone had done to that point.

Phelps and Henn have come in and done everything right - based on performance the choices aren't even close and yet here we are, four days from opening day and Torre still needs to be swayed.

Well then, if Stewart's right you can eliminate the Phelps vs. Phillips debate from my above rant.

There are two separate stories out of Philly that have the Phillies calling up their top catching prospect. Both writers infer that could be a sign that the team is preparing to move either Chris Coste or Carlos Ruiz for pen help.

With the surplus of pen arms the Yankees have and their need for a back up catcher could there be something brewing?

Chip -- I don't know. The Yanks treat a back up catcher like a step child. (no offense to step children, it's just a figure of speach). I don't see them doing anyhing. I'd be surprised.

Where's Rick? Another one of his "better than Pavano" got hammered. :)

Chip: You bring back memories .Showalter lost confidence in Wetteland the game before ,and to some degree mismanaged his bullpen.He did eventually bring Rivera into game 5 only to see it lost in the 11th inning w/ Black Jack Mcdowell on the mound...who do you fault? Wetteland for stinking it up or Showalter for not using the rest of his pen ? The Yanks had many opportunities to put the Mariners away and the failed...Torre is being diplomatic and gracious ,has Villone made the team as yet ?

It makes sense if the Phillies decide to move Ruiz or Coste.The Phils are a thin in the Bullpen could use some help.They still have Barajas.

With rosters getting settled now is when you generally see teams with players who are out of options making moves. A trade of a Britton or Cox for a young catcher like Ruiz would not be out of the realm of possibility - but at the same time there are going to be a lot of teams moving players that they don't think they can get through waivers and can't keep on the roster.

As for the Buck/Torre thing, I don't mean to say that I'm blaming managers for getting attached or loyal to players, it is the nature of the beast, but it is also why I think even the best managers have shelf lives and that's why I don't mind that this is probably Torre's last year. What I would not do though is pick his replacement from his coaching staff as those coaches likely will come in with similar biases that Torre has.

The exception to this is Cox in Atlanta - because of their budget he can't necessarily hang on to the players that he has grown attached to - but in NY, with an unlimited budget Torre can take Villone at $2.8 million over Henn at $300k out of loyalty and not worry if Villone proves ineffective because the team can eat the money mid season if need be.

if that was the case (Waivers ) why did'nt they just do that to begin with. or Sign Andy to a Minor L deal.

Damn, I blew it. I need a drink.

Anonymous - they can't sign him to a minor league deal until/unless he clears waivers - and that's assuming he wants to stay in the organization - he may decide to try his luck with a different team, he might decide that it will be easier to get a regular job with a team that is not as deep as the Yankees.

Chip: are you referring to J.B. Cox as trade material? Last I heard he was having elbow surgery.I kept wondering why he didn't pitch in ST...He's still a tremendous "Prospect" who I think the Yanks would like to keep...if the Yanks trade it would be someone like Britton or Steven Jackson

Chip: lets assume it Torre's ultimate decision to pick the final roster spots with some candid advice from his round table of coaches and BC. Villone will not be here. His second half of '06 was poor and his ST was terrible, plus his age. It could mean a trade to a team who needs pitching and will to take a chance on him.

Ruse,

I hadn't heard that about Cox - I think with the additions of Whalen, Sanchez (who they seem to view as a possible Joel Zumaya) and Jackson, Cox has become a little expendable. I think Jackson may be a little too far away for what the Phillies need. Britton could be used in a trade as could TJ Beam or who knows, maybe if it is Coste who is a little older, a package of Bean and Villone would get it done.

Larry,

I was (and still slightly am) of the belief that with a fairly reasonable contract in today's market and the fact that he is left handed that even if the Yankees decided not to keep Villone they would be able to find trading partners, the problem is that each time he goes out there Villone does nothing to help his trade value.

CHip the situation with Torre is Waaaaaaay different than that of Buck,

I worked a closer with the team and it's surroundings back then. I'll tell you this nobody disputes the talent eye of Buck, Mattingly loved this guy. Yes he stucked with Cone. many people then still was'nt raving about Mo until after the series, Middle relief was still shaky then.

Now on Torre , 96 was Torre's best year outright he did a few things that changed the face of the yankees.

1.Starting Catcher : Mike stanley crowd favorite and all had to go was a free agent so it made it easier becasue he wanted starters money that was,nt happening so they signed Giradi (do ya;ll remember the boo's when he came to the staduim??) convert lyictz to backup.

2. shortstop:
Injury to Tony Fernandez opened up doors for Jeter, had buck been in charge would he have done the same?

3. Pettite -
Torre made him part of the rotation, would sholwater had done the same (note pettite and jeter was on 95 roster in limited roles)

4. Coaching staff
Best family of coaching staff probally assembeled.

5. General Manager/Super Scout
You have to give salutes to Bob Watson the Job he done was incredible!!!!

Gene Michael -

Not enough words to portray his work!!

Torre's ways with players.
however it was the trade to rid seirra (GM) that cleared that at the time cancer.

4. FOCUS!!
This team was focued!!!!

6. 1st base
Yankee brass wanted more pop from the position
could LOYAL MATTINGLY Supporter Buck tell mattingly he needs to be a back up? (imagine tino / Mattingly) so the new era signed tino and traded for cecil you decide based on numbers AT THE TIME.

6. Luck

Torre inherited an already established team and up until know may be facing his real challenges as NY YANKEE Mgr. he too is accustomed to success.
His andy phillips handling is boggling, there is no credentials in keeping this man over phelps.

Chip: We shall see. I believe that Cashman has something working. He has been proactive with some of his moves. He can't be happy with the prospect of Jorge and a long term injury throwing this team off the track with the present cadre of backup catchers.

pratt is definitley no different than fasano who many said had good repor with the staff

Bomber, there was a book written recently (and I think the author was Sherman, but I'm not sure) that said by losing the ALDS in '95 the Yankees set themselves up to win the Series in '96.

That by bringing Torre and Watson in from outside the organization they looked objectively at the roster and could cut loose players like Stanley and Velarde (Mattingly made it easy by retiring) and replacing them with Duncan and Girardi which went with Torre's National League style.

Then there was also some luck involved. When Tony Fernandez broke his elbow - the Tampa faction had the Boss convinced that Jeter could not play short every day and so there was a deal on the table that would send Rivera to the Mariners for Felix Fermin and Stick, Watson and Torre shot that deal down - I don't think Buck would have.

Also Torre looked more objectively at Boggs and decided that for the stretch run he just wasn't getting it done and so he took a Hall of Fame third baseman and made him part of a platoon with Charlie Hayes. He convinced Cecil Fielder and Darryl Strawberry to accept the idea of being role players and was willing to move out guys like Gerald Williams and Bob Wickman.

Again, I don't think loyalty from a manager to a player is a bad thing in general - I think it can become a bad thing when the manager starts making moves with his heart rather than his head.

I know bringing this up is probably not a good idea - but that is part of the reason I'm glad Bernie never showed up this spring. If he had, I have no doubt that Torre would have found a place on the roster for him whether he fit or not and in doing so he would have reduced Melky to a fifth outfielder who gets to play once every two weeks.

Bronx Bomber : 1 correction.Showalter is the one who brought Pettitte up in 1995 going 12-9 in 30 games and also started game 2 of the 1995 Division Series.

I'm sad to see a lot of the comments here that indicate Joe Torre is a bumbling idiot who can't manage a game. This team has won 4 world series with him at the helm and I think a lot of us are getting extremely spoiled.
I can bet you that the only reason Torre is talking up Villone even when it seems impossible to find anything good about him is Torre's desire, not as a manager, but as a decent human being, to help Villone find another job. I bet Torre throws him out there whenever he can and hopes the guy has at least a little success so that some team will sign him.
It's the same w/ Phillips, Torre has known this guy since he was 20 years old and he realizes he is not getting any better but he would like to see the guy latch on somewhere so he can draw a pension someday and not have to grow old washing cars for a living. He's doing the decent thing and trying to give these guys another chance.
He will not keep people on the team who aren't performing, anybody who thinks so is overestimating his power as Cashman wouldn't stand for it and I haven't even mentioned George, who still has a few brain cells left.

Put yourself in JT's position- if asked to fire someone you have known for a long time and worked side by side with, could you do it without hesitation or would you try to ease the pain by helping them find a new job?

This focus on Torre and who he likes, the loyalty factor, etc. is all "baloney". It really comes down to Cashman, and with him it is all about heading North with the best, and most "cost effective" players possible. Phelps is in, Phillips is cut and exposed, and Nieves gets the backup catcher spot barring a trade. It speaks volumes that Torre refuses to announce Pavano the Opening Day starter. Cashman and Torre obviously have absolutely "no respect" for Pavano, and will only use him APRIL 2 if he is literally the last option they have. That's "if" Pavano is still a Yankee.

Jim A.: I said something similar above ...He's trying to be as accomodating as he can be...He gets a A+ for his diplomatic skills...In my book Torre is a 1st ballot Hall of Fame skipper.

JIM A-
I put myself in Torre's position, and "YOUR FIRED". That was really easy. Pick up your check, at the desk.

Ruse

Torre 1st ballot hall of famer?? LOL¡¡¡

Really went out on a limb there.

Roy : I think the reason Torre hasn't announced Pavano as the Yanks opening day starter is he doesn't want to put anymore pressure on his pitcher than what already exists...which is quite abit...

Billy Martin is a "Hall of Fame skipper, and he had no "diplomatic skills". This is "hog wash".

ruse :

review my notes again under pettite , I stated that , the question was wether Buck would have made him part of the ROTATION in 96,

Chip..
That bringing in outsiders approach was needed after last year's playoff failure.

Torre was in the same position as Buck

Phucker : His legacy is as great if not greater than Sparky Andersons or Tommy Lasorda,the only fairly recent inductees I could think of...plus he was a great ballplayer to begin with...Besides Stengel and McCarthy ,off the top of your head name 2 skippers w/ more than 4 WS victories .

If a Major League pitcher with a huge multi-year deal cannot handle "pressure", he should be in another "line of work".

Bomber : Gotcha ! Thanks.

Roy,
"you" will never be in a "position" to "fire" anyone so I am not "worried".

Ruse

You must've misunderstood. I thought as far as managers go he's at the top of the list so i was agreeing with you.

Roy : I am more than happy to disagree ! We'll see .

Measuring a managers ability by the number of World Series Championships they have, is as faltered as putting hitters in the Hall of Fame solely because the have 500 homers. Jim Thome, Frank Thomas, Hall of Famers? NO WAY.

Torre is not a first ballot HOF and the last seasons tell you why. Torre was benefitted from a strong team. his skills probally made them won a few more series extra his managing skills was best in 96 and perhaps 98 playoff's all the other series was strength of team. The reason for his hire was to bring a Hometown brooklyn product to manage this squad. in other words he was a cheap alternative who was in a TV Booth. The yankees made his career revive, and he brought hope and championships outta a bunch of high priced players
remember though the yankee payroll was not Number 1 then. the payroll jumped when we signed our players to long term deals

Phucker:Sorry I didn't catch the irony !

Roy

Watch your "mouth"...That's my ACE you're talkin about. :)

JIM A.
Wrong again. Yesterday, I fired the kid that cuts my yard. He failed to sweep the sidewalk. That position is now open. Interested?

Some of those cardinals teams mgr's won four right??

earl weaver?

Then you talking FA era , and high payroll .

what was Torre win pct BEFORE the yankees?

Bomber: All WS winners are dependent on the horses that got them there,also maybe a little luck tied in...Yanks don't win WS after WS without great pitching and good offense...the Yanks don't win in the mid to late 30's without Dimaggio,Gehrig,Dickey,Gomez and Ruffing etc.

Roy: What's it pay ?

Ruse-
Fewer teams back then, but only 2 teams had the opportunity to play for the Championship. Now more teams, and look at the Cards regular season record last year. Boy, that LaRussa is a genious.

Jim and others - I'm sorry if it is coming off like I'm calling Torre a bumbling idiot. that is not my intention. My point is that Torre, like all managers, is going to show loyalty to the players who have been there for him in the past. That is bound to happen when you spend as much time together as these players and coaches do. I think, at times, that loyalty will cloud a manager's judgment.

My point is only that sometimes, for an organization to move forward it is beneficial to bring in talent evaluators and coaches from outside the organization who have no preconceived notions about the players they are inheriting and can look at them more or less objectively. This is especially true when you have a veteran laden roster. A manager who has been around a team for a decade may be more hesitant to tell a declining player who has been a loyal player on that team throughout that manager's tenure that it is time to hang them up than someone from outside.

Think about the players who have played their last pro games as Yankees. With the exception of Bernie they all left on their own terms at the end. Torre has never had to tell a player who has won for him that it is time to go. Even Girardi and Leiter came into their last springs knowing they were going to retire before the season started, they just wanted to be 100% sure about it.

Bomber: Earl Weaver did not.Frankie Frisch I'm not sure ,my guess is probably not.

RUSE-
5.00 an hour, and all the KOOL-AID you can drink.

Roy ; Are you saying it was more difficult to win back in the day ? If so I couldn't disagree more.The Cards of 06 are in my mind an exception rather than the rule.

Roy: I have to make at least minimum wage .Lemonade.Non- negotiable.

And just to add to my last point, while I know Donnie is Cashman's choice to replace Torre I think it is a mistake. Not that Mattingly would be a bad manager but there are a couple of issues.

1. IF Mattingly were to fail as a manager, the organization could risk turning him into another Yogi Berra - a generational icon who turns his back on the organization after a messy separation

2. This team is getting older - I think it would be a good move to bring in a manager from the outside - like they did with Torre 11 years ago - who could look at the roster and decide objectively who is and is not able to get it done going forward. Just like I don't think Buck could move out Stanley I don't think Torre or a Torre disciple would be able to look at Posada if he were to start declining and say - "we need to replace Jorge"

I'm tired.

I'm empty.

JIM A,

Put YOURSELF in a mgr's position.

you have not WON in 6 years the pressure was real ugly last year. The team needs a boost in spirit, Your GM saved your job fought for POWER and went out and picked up a potential STEAL rule 5 draft choice. Rumors of Favoritism and dumb articles in sports illustrated exposed you front and center, Your bosses wanted YOU fired. everybody promised a good team next year. The minors jumped 22 places to #5 yet you hanging on to a pitcher whom you helped crush his game by overuse. then you support a player hitting 190 all singles over a player who is hitting 428 3hrs 12 rbi's who appears to be a great choice.

this team needs to perform not have a PETTY soap opera that you the mgr supposed strength was to prevent.

this is not a Joe bash but a reality check it may be time to go. the same happened to Casey

Bomber

Well said. Enough is enough. Phelps and Henn are the guys. Villone and Andy sorry but it's time to HIT THE BRICKS!!

excellent point CHip!!!!!!!!!!

You opened another can of worms with that,

Torre loyalty wil lfall on these aging player they afterall made him who he is
but what happens when jeter is old?

You think the steve swindal push is coincidence?? yeah right. these moves is dominoes Swindal saved Torre's Job last year

Casey went because of old age(70) and alcoholism .Stengel would fall asleep during ballgames .He was held personally responsible for the Yanks losing the 1960 WS.He stubbornly refused to start Bill Stafford in the Series.

Bomber is exactly right.

It isn't a knock against Torre at all. But the fact is that Joe (at least a part of him) looks at this season as his last and knows that a new regime would mean lots of his favorite players may be swept aside, just as he swept aside several of Buck's favorites when he took over, and so while he wants to go out with a win, equally important is that he wants to go out with a win with HIS guys. Players who have been loyal, done everything that has been asked of them. In Villone's case he probably pitched for Torre on days he knew he shouldn't have, but he was being a good soldier - a good loyal manager like Torre wants to repay that. He wants to give Villone one more shot at the winning for the team he grew up rooting for. It does not make Torre a bad manager to feel that way, the problem is that if he is using loyalty rather than performance as a determining factor then he is not only putting his chances of returning on the line but also the jobs of his coaches, his GM and others within the organization.

Do I think the Yankee season would be made or broken by Ron Villone over Sean Henn? No, of course not. But lets say that Torre were to manage this season more with his heart than his head and as a result he doesn't necessarily put out the best team night after night that he can, and the team gets knocked out in the ALDS again - do you think Torre would be the only one to suffer as a result of that? Loyalty to your players is great, it makes them run through hell fire and brimstone for you - but the organization as a whole deserves loyalty too, and sometimes you can't do what's right for both. In those cases the needs of the team has to outweigh the needs of the player.

Last I heard Phelps was in Phillips out .No decision as yet on Villone/Henn.Tmrw or Sat.Backup catcher?

Ruse,
Torre has said all decisions will be made public today.

According to the link above Phillips has been waived, but I haven't seen that anywhere else. If that's true and I give Torre the benefit of the doubt then I think it will be Phelps, Henn and Pratt.

Interestingly enough, in the link that talks about Andy's release there is also a bit in there from Torre about how Phelps has also looked good against righties. I think in the end it comes down to something I said a few days ago. Torre is looking at Meint and not sure if he's going to hit enough this season. With that being the case he had to take Phelps who as an everyday player at first would be better than Phillips in case he needs to relegate Meint to defensive sub role. If he took Phillips, essentially he would wind up moving Giambi to 1st, which he doesn't want to do and rotating his outfielders through the DH spot, playing Melky everyday and leaving his bench with two back up first basemen and no back up outfielders.

Jim A -- 'right on' about Torre's statements regarding personnel issues.

I'm sure I'm not the only person on this blog who has had the responsibility for hiring and firing responsible professionals who want to give their best, but who vary in their capacity to fill an organization's current needs. We all know two things about this role.

One is that it is a very difficult one to handle well on several levels, not just because of the complex and sometimes conflicting demands of organization-building, but also on account of the humane considerations which may be painful. It would be simpler to look past the human beings involved, but that would lead down the path of no longer being able to keep those issues in mind while managing those who do make the cut.

The other is that very few people who haven't done it will give you any credit for the struggle to balance all the factors involved or the heart to treat everyone respectfully. Mostly they'll be furious at you for not taking the simpleton's view.

Diane -

I understand what you say about how tough it is to fire loyal employees. When I came to my current job I was brought in from the outside to change around a situation that had gotten fairly bad for my company. They brought me in specifically so that I could look at everyone's work objectively and make the changes that I thought would get us on the right track. In doing so I had to sever ties with a lot of people who had been here for years - but sometimes that is what you need to do. And I'm sure that if things go badly I will be replaced by someone who is charged to do to my people exactly what I did to those who were here when I came in. As I said, sometimes that is what an organization needs in order to move forward.

Very interesting posts folks.

As a Sox fan, I dont feel qualified to make many comments regarding the players you have been discussing, or really Torre...except to say, in spite of the intensity of the rivalry, most Sox fans have great respect for Joe. Class act, and those teams of the latter 90's that he managed may of been as good as any teams that have ever played.

That said, I think the Yanks may be in for a tough year...this year. Even if...it wont last long...too much baseball savvy in that org to be "down" for long.

Chip,

My post was specifically about JT's communicationns regarding personnel matters.

Regarding the actual cuts, he has to cut personnel every year at this time no matter how well the organization is doing and no matter how superbly everyone might play, because of the reduction in numbers at this juncture.

And of course he doesn't have the psychological protection that he 'new broom' briefly enjoys.

RUSE-
I do think it was more difficult to be a World Series Champion, when you only had 1 NL team, and 1 AL team qualify for post season play. The Cards won it all, and just look at the NL West teams that have been in the playoffs, and had the "opportunity" to be a Wold Series Champion. Now you don't even have to "win" your own division. Much tougher long ago, even when they "only" played a 154 regular season games.

CHIP-
Sounds like your the guy with the machete, not Rick.

The Red Sox and their fans SUCK !

I was reading Tampa Newspaper this morning . Kazmir who's predicting a win for the Drays. He's says his ready and working on his new pitch the changeup...

Chip - again excellent pOint!!!

In fact it is selfish what you may think is loyalty. there are people who have to still be there or may get cut or fired becasue the new crew thought you was in that "CIRCLE" Torre can care less becasue this is his walk year

Do you think Jim Duquette wakes up in the middle of the night screaming "NOOOOO I thought I traded Kazmir for the GOOD Zambrano"

Somebody please point out to me a player that has gone north with the team that Joe Torre insisted on keeping who wasn't the right guy for the team, or so we all thought? Who has Torre cut from the team that made it elsewhere?

Bomber- you especially are acting as if Torre has kept Phillips and Villone, which he has not as of yet so why are you jumping on him for a decision he has not made?
You also say he hasn't won in 6 years. Is being in first place not winning? We all know the team hasn't won a WS in six years but there are 24 other teams that haven't done so and none of them are freaking out like this. I know what you will say, that the "expectations for the Yankees are so much higher...", this is true, but keep in mind we know that pitching wins championships and Torre has had to make do with crappy pitching for the past few years. Those of you who say he has overused his bullpen and burnt out several pitchers, please name his options for me. Please tell me who on his roster could do a better job than the guy Torre has supposedly burnt out. Sure, it's easy to second guess every single decision after the fact, but Torre doesn't get that luxury.
Those who say he burnt Villone out would be on this blog calling for his head if he let Randy Johnson go past the fifth inning or Jaret Wright go past the 4th inning last year.
Crappy starting pitching leads to burnt out bullpens and no championships.
Good starting pitching leads to rested bullpens which leads to championships. It's that simple, blame Torre all you want but he doesn't pitch for the Yankees.

Jim,

I agree with you that Villone's overuse would not have occurred had Wright, Chacon and Johnson pitched better, but Villone is just one example of a recurring theme in that area - if you go back over the last four years you'll see a pattern of pitchers who get over used and are then not as effective or suffer a serious arm injury the following year:

Steve Karsay
Paul Quantrill
Tanyon Sturtze
Tom Gordon
Ron Villone

Even some of the blown saves Rivera has had in the post season can be traced to him being over used during the season. Thankfully that has not manifested in a serious injury. And who knows how Scott Proctor will respond to the workload he got last year.

You're right, that this is as much a reflection of the starters as it is of anything else, but my question I guess would be, what is the point in having a six or seven man relief corps if there are only two or three pitchers you go to.

Jim A,

This is clear cut opening day is days away, Phelps kicked ass this battle is won do not play with a person emotions as well as giving the Press something negative to write about. Phillps and Villone got destroyed in their battles. But yet torre makes it seem that these players who indeed bust their ass's should have a level of insecurity. if it was a close battle then cool keep the suspence but for a 190 hitter who is playing strangely familar to his season numbers . tha t is insulting to the other players and can leave an issue between you and the player. this yankee team need to be drama free. if you was phelps and you went north and went 0 for 5 would you feel like ohh well torre may bounce me? and what if this issue creates the "he did'nt really want me on the team attitude" sounds petty right ?? EXACTLY my point

David dellucci,

and several relievers I cannot remember right now but dellucci is a example, he would have been a great 5th of

Bomber-
I just disagree. The man (JT) is simply trying to let these guys play (Villone and Phillips) so they can try to get jobs elsewhere. By playing them at this point, he is resting those who have made the team.
When Phillips and Villone get released, neither one will say they are surprised because I am guessing Torre has spoken with them privately and told them his plans. They are not competing for a job on the Yankees right now, they're competing for a ML roster spot somewhere else.

As for a case where Torre's managing looked like he was more about the players than putting the best team on the field, I would point at last year's ALDS.

Given the injuries to Matsui and Sheffield, the best lineup he could have made would have featured Matsui or Sheff at DH with Melky in left - instead he went with a very rusty Sheffield out of position at first and an equally rusty Matsui in Left instead of a superior defender.

Do I think the Yankees would have won the ALDS with those changes? No - the pitching stunk and that's what cost them the series, but you have to admit, he did not play his best lineup.

Randy Johnson was the boss idea so torre merits no blame , but torre decision to let Jon lieber walk was critical, Leiber became good in the AL , did'nt he shut down boston? or lost a 1 run game 2-1 1-0 ??

Chip- All the pitchers you named above fall into the "CSP" (Crappy Starting Pitching) era of the Yanks.

Let's say the Yanks were up 3-2 in a game that was in the 8th inning against Boston. Torre keeps Rivera on the bench and Sturtze comes in and gives up a single. Torre still keeps Rivera on the bench and brings in Tom Gordon who promptly walks the next batter he faces (after puking in the bullpen from his nervous stomach). Torre still keeps Rivera on the bench and Gordon gives up a 3 run bomb. The next day, we're all on this blog blasting Torre for not bringing in Rivera. You know this would happen.

Jim,

You may be right about Torre's motivation in talking up Villone - but doesn't Ron's performance kind of hurt his chances with another team more than Torre's words help?

I don't know if it is the same in baseball as it is in football, but in football the players who aren't going to make the squad appreciate being cut (or at least told they're going to be cut) sooner rather than later so that there is more time for them to catch on with another team or have their representatives investigate other options for them.

chip most of the games was tight until a certain point, if you score it changes strategy. his offensive lineup was disgusting end of story , and the game where he should have taken out a pitcher (mussina ) he let stay in

Chip- You have the luxury of knowing the outcome of the game. If the Yankees lose that game by a run or two and Sheffield is on the bench, you'd be pissed!

Anonymous: Torre is not the GM, he did't let anyone walk. Cashman underestimated the price teams were willing to pay for pitching. The Mets are the reason Lieber left because they gave Kris Benson $8M per season when the Yanks told Lieber there was no way he could come close to that number.

Jim A -

You made my point exactly when referring to Gordon

so what he puked how many games he lost as a yankee and who in the pen has better numbers outside of Mo than tom?? truth is when Tom was there the pen was better in the later innings majority of the time.

I dare someone to contest that

Joe did not let Leiber walk. The organization as a whole believed that the 8 million option on him was too expensive so they declined it with the intention of re-signing him. Unfortunately about a week later, the Mets set the market for crappy starting pitchers by signing Kris Benson for 3 years 28 mil, and all of a sudden Leiber was commanding a lot more money.

Jim, I'm sure you're right, but the fact remains, and it may be sour grapes considering the sources, but you hear all the time from former Yankee relievers that Torre has 2 types of pitchers in his pen, the ones he works until they are no longer effective and the ones he doesn't work enough to keep effective.