On the Yankees beat

I would take Pettitte over Lilly. Give the guys in triple time to progress and have a proven NY winner for one year with a likely chance he will be done at the end of the season.

Lilly.

Cheaper, younger, and at this point, a more reliable and better pitcher.

No contest.

Pettite hands down! A one-year contract gives the Yankees some long-term flexiblity, while at the same time buying some time for their farm to further develop.

Pettitte. He's cheaper, playoff tested and a better pitcher.

BTW Eric how is $36 million over 4 years cheaper than $13.5 million over one?

On a per year basis, Bill.

Andy - hands down!

Eric, I don't mean to be pushy or confrontational but are you saying that you consider it cheaper to pay out $36 million over 4 years than $15 million over 1? On a per year basis in years 2, 3 and 4 the Yankees would pay nothing for Pettitte yet would continue to pay on average 9 million to Lilly over that time.

That's $15 million v. a net present value of about $31 million at an interest rate of 5%.

I'll give you younger, I disagree on more reliable and I sure don't see cheaper with the numbers posited.

I actually love both of them for the Yankees for next year. However Andy Pettitte is a true winner and keep in mind Pettitte is only one year removed from being second in the major leagues in ERA (with a scorching 2.39... and he was injured to start last year and finished strong with a 2.80 second half ERA).

I'd rather have Lilly, who is a damn good pitcher against the Red Sox (he was a stud in the playoffs for Oakland too against Boston, including a 7-inning shutout performance that the bullpen blew on, I believe, a Trot Nixon walk off home run and a 2 inning scoreless relief sting in game 5), than Kei Igawa whom David Wright said was basically a mediocre pitcher.

It's funny because I think these two guys are both of Brian Cashman's greatest mistakes as Yankee GM (don't get me wrong, I love Cashman and I think he's been superb this offseason). They should have resigned Pettitte and they never should have traded Lilly for Jeff Weaver.

Of the two listed here, though, definitely Andy Pettitte for me. I'd love to see him back in pinstripes.

Pettitte without a doubt! He has heart and would be a welcome addition to this team. The day he signed with the Astros they were partying in Boston because they knew we lost a piece of our success.

Give me Andy for one year. He's a better pitcher and just as important I like the one year deal as it gives the Yankees flexibility going forward. Signing pitchers to long contracts is one of the worst business moves teams make.

Pettitte. Pettitte. Pettitte.

I would take Andy Pettitte for 1 year or two at 13.5. We need one or two years to transition to our younger pitching rotation. Andy will provide the buffer for the changeover. This decision may sound like I'm vacillating from wanting Lilly but I never thought Andy was available. Lilly is a .500 pitcher. This is mediocrity at best. I rather have our young guys such as Hughes,etc. Do our pitching. It would be nice to see a guy on the mound like Wang pitching for about 300K for a couple of years than pay him his rewards. Andy is crafty like Musssina. He should provide 15 wins this year and 12-15 the second year.

Andy Pettitte my man for the good old days =]

I see the Andy fans are out in force.

Anyway, to answer Bill.

Yes, you will continue to pay Lilly over years 2-4 but you will also have his services for those years.

Don't forget that.

When Andy's gone, you're going to have to pay someone else to pitch anyway, so it's not like you don't have to pay.

Personally, I'd rather take my risk with Pettitte. The upsides are that he is familiar with Bronx pressure, its a 1 year deal, and he's a lefty. The downside is that he is injury prone, but, alas, he is 34 years old. I'd much rather give him $15M for one year, than overpay Lilly or Meche for 3-5 years, 40-55M. We would be regretting that signing in two years, a la Pavano. Plus, with Pettitte in the fold, increases the Yankees chances with Clemens. Even if Clemens pitched from July - October, for, say, $20M, it would be worth it to have the extra arm. Steinbrenner is getting old, and the window is closing for guys like Abreu, Mussina, Giambi, A-Rod, and Matsui. I think with enough healthy arms, they could go all the way this year.

One other thing...on what planet would Lilly get only 36 million over 4 years? More like 44 million over those same 4 years in this market.

I don't want either one. Been there done that. The Yankees need to move forward not backward.

There is no risk with only signing Pettitte for only one year. Carl Pavano proved that younger does not always mean better, and that 4-year contracts are not always the way to go. And speaking of Pavano, check out the comparison:

Lilly's career: 59-58, 4.60 ERA
Pavano's career prior to 2005: 57-58, 4.21 ERA

I know one has nothing to do with the other, but after getting burned with Pavano, Pettitte is the no-brainer safe route to go here.

Pettite

Eric, I won't forget that. I think the point is they'll replace Pettitte's $15 million with a minimum wage stud named Hughes or Sancez etc.

The point is, within the framework of the example there is no way in which $36 million over 4 years is cheaper than $15 million for one year without imposing a very negative real rate of interest; Weimar Republic interest. Potential future expenditures have no bearing on that concept other than in examining what those future expenditures might be from a cost benefit point of view.

Have a good one.

Pettite. His numbers were sick in the second half last year, ERA going down each month after May.

Speaking of Pavano, will he be wearing one of those Summo wrestling suites during his winter workouts? What a fraud!

Got to go with Andy. The "teaching skills" alone can't be put into dollars. He's the guy along with Mussina that will give the kids what they need to take over. I don't trust Lily at this point (currently 40 mil over 4 and rising)or anyone else. Let's remember it was George and his Tampa cronies who pushed Andy out. He would have stayed if we didn't want him to go. He has the NY burned into him.

Without a doubt, Andy Pettitte for one year at $13.5 million

Pettitte. Big game proven pitcher.

Andy - it would give the young pitchers a chance to develop and I htink he owuld be stimulated by coming back. He can handle the pressure and a shorter deal gives he Yanks flexibilty.

Pettitte. 2.80 ERA after the all-star break last year, looked like Pettitte again. Pitching in Minute Maid isn't easy either. I'll take Andy and his playoff experience. I don't want to find out the hard way (again) that our free agent pitcher can't handle the postseason.

pettitte

How could anybody even question who you would rather have? If your a real Yankees fan you would have seen the likes of Kevin Brown, Javy Vasquez, Randy Johnson, Wright, Pavano, Contreras wilt under the NY spotlight. Pettitte is one of the top lefties in the game and came up big numerous times in the post-season for us-something these other bums could not say for themselves. Yes, I remember Game 6 agains Arizona in 01, but I'll take Andy back any day. Even if it took 18 million for 1 year! I think everyone needs to take a step back, look at the rotation we have and realize we have issues
1. Wang-Can't expect a duplicate season, especially after throwing 80 plus innings over his previous high.
2. Mussina-Good for 14-17 wins. He has been burnt out come October the past 3 years.
3. Johnson-43 year old coming off back surgery-Lucky if we get 30 starts out of him
4. Pavano-His teamates think he is garbage. Jim, maybe you can verify this-but I once heard while rehabbing in Tampa he met up with the Yanks vs the D-Rays. I heard a lot of teamates were upset when they saw him sleeping on the couch in the clubhouse.
5. Igawa-You have know idea what he will give us.
Karstens/Rasner will see time, that is guaranteed. Dont expect to see Hughes, maybe a September call-up. The Yanks are extra cautious with their players-He only pitched about 5 innings a start in Double A-I find it funny people think he can step into an AL East rotation and dominate throwing 200 innings.

Pettitte hands down; he will be less expensive in the long run, has better stuff, loved pitching in NY and leaves the yankees with flexability for the future which will allow the younger pitchers to slide into the rotation when they are ready. Not to mention the fact that an injury prone pitcher with a career 4.6 ERA is in no way worth 40 million give or take. Based on all the rumors I'm seeing it also seems like there's a good chance for this to happen which would definately be worth the wait. Not to mention, it would make Cashmen look like a genius for being so patient.

Pettitte. Hopefully young pitchers (Hughes & Co.) will be ready in a year. Pettitte is a better deal and is already proven both in New York and the playoffs. Who knows how Lilly will pitch in two, three, four years or how he will handle New York or the playoffs.

YANKSFANMC: All great points, well said. We have some question marks and Andy Pettitte would be at least one answer.

No contest - Andy. He's better than Lilly and gives us more flexible. We already have Wang and Hughes is as much of a sure thing as you can get. Plus, we have Sanchez, Cippard, and Chamberlain. Let's not tie up the roster with mediocore pitchers like Lilly for 4 years and hold the kids down.

Younger and cheaper doesnt mean better.

And seriously is 13 or 11 that much cheaper? Give me a break.

the man from Baton Rouge....although you cannot extrapolate from his prior numbers what he'll do in 2007.It's all a crap shoot....Lilly is an OK talent will be 31 next yr....not 4 yrs let the Cubs have him.I do agree it's time to turn the chapter ,in my humble opinion Karstens,Hughes,Clippard are better choices than Lilly is right now...

Scarlett Johansson.

Oops, wrong question.

I like both and agree neither should have left. But Andy is my choice for the following reasons:

1. He is a proven playoff performer for the Yankees, in contrast to the likes of Johnson or ARod;
2. He won't cost a draft choice;
3. It will be short term 1-2 years which will allow the organization to better filter in the many prospects who will be ready in 2008, 2009;
4. Here is a chance for a Yankee modern great to finish his career with the team that developed him.

The Redsox did their work and improved their certain areas and weakness. I think The Redsox learned from last year that They have to concentrate on starting pitching and acquring lefty specialist against the Yankees. I remembered the Boston Massacre part II. Damon's and Abreu had great stats and kills the Redsox pitching in that series. I also remembered when Theo said The Yankees have a "uber team and they can't compete with the Yankees"

The Redsox pitching have more depth and deep than Yankees current rotatation.

Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Clement and Return and Healthy Jon Lester from Cancer. They still have taht freddy kreuger - Julian Tavarez last year,Delcarmen, Hansen amd Gabbard. Also Last Year, Yankees have trouble hitting David Pauley's.

I will give an edge to Bullpen with the Yankees.

The Both Lineup are Even

1b - Youkilis vs. TBD

2b - Pedroia vs Cano

SS - Lugo vs Jeter

3b - Lowell vs. ARod

LF - Manny vs. Matsui

CF - Coco/Pena vs. Damon

RF - Drew vs. Abreu

c - Posada vs Varitek

DH - Ortiz vs. Giambi

Besides the Manny/Ortiz combo, I like our lineup just as well.

Rotation:

Bost: Schilling, DMat, Papelbon, Beckett, Wakefield/Clement

NYY: Mussina, Wong, Pettitte, RJ, Pavano/Igawa

Bullpen:

NYY: Myers, Britton, Bruney, Proctor, Farnsworth, Mo, lhp TBD

Bost: Tavarez, Okajima, Delcarmen, Hansen, Timlin, TBD

Bench:

Bost: Cora, Pena, Hinske, C TBD

NYY: Cabrera, IF TBD, C TBD

I love and want them both. But, it would have to be Lilly because we would have him for 4 years and he's LH. And, I actually think they would have comparable numbers next year for the Yanks.

But, my real reason is as follows. Once Johnson is gone next year, Hughes will step in. If Pettite then left next year also, we would need two rookies for 2008 rotation. The year after, it's Mussina's turn to leave for another kid. So, in 2009 we would have 3 SP that are rookies or second year guys. Too much too fast to count on.

I say sign them both if we can.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3002

ESPNews is reporting that the Red Sox and Julio Lugo have agreed to terms on a four-year, $36 million contract.

A very expensive day for Boston, and we're guessing that spending $106 million on a couple of non-superstars won't go over particularly well. However, Lugo, like Drew, is an underrated defender with quality on-base skills. If he plays like he did in 2005 and the first half of 2006, he's worth $9 million per year in this market. Still, like every other deal this winter, this is one year too long. The Red Sox can now put Dustin Pedroia at second base and leave him there. They also might be more open to trading Coco Crisp since they have another option at the top of the order.

With all of these pitchers (assuming they get Pettitte and Igawa, and already having Wang, Mussina and Johnson), at what point can they ditch Pavano and who will be dumb enough to take him?

$70 million for Drew

$36 Million for Lugo

$96 Million Matsuzaka

$3.5 million for Okajima

_________

= Redsox spent $205.5 million this OffSeason

And just think, the Red Sox haven't had to spend any REAL money yet. They still have to sign Matsuzaka.

Pettitte may have lost a little something after his surgery. Having the low ERA for the second half is promising but maybe he emptied the tank. Why would a guy so young even think of retiring if he felt he had more to give? Maybe he knows he's done? If family is the main factor would that affect him while he is in NY? His heart has to be in it.

His overall ERA was over 4 and he gave up a career high # of HRs. Not good signs and not encouraging enough to say he’ll be OK in the ALE.

I love Andy, he's a true Yankee champion but maybe the best move would have been to not let him go in the first place. Bringing him back now seems more like trying to rekindle the past. But we can't change the past so I say look ahead and get Lilly.

OYF

I'm with you on Pettite and Lilly.

Pettitte. He's a better pitcher than anybody available, including Zito, and he will only ask for 2 years at most. Read more at Valentine's Views.

December 7, 1941 — a date which will live in infamy — the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan. by Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Yankees will fight back and strikes against Redsox. The Yankees Will Rise again...

I Believed in Cashman and Go Yankees.

#1 - The Red Sox finished in 3RD PLACE in '06. They were 4 games above .500 despite a $130m payroll. They were flat-out awful. They needed to make many changes.

#2 - Signing a bunch of high-priced guys every year, usually works out, right?

#3 - Frontline starters? Are you a Red Sox fan? Seriously? What is your assessment of 2 frontline starters based on? Matsuzaka who is big.............in Japan. MLB hitters are not going to be intimidated by a 92-94 mph fastball. Suffice it to say, he's in for a culture shock.

Papelborn? How many innings does he have as a starter? I forget. Throwing 95 mph in the 9th inning is very different that actually pitching. Many relievers are throwers and are successful for a bit. But to face a lineup 3 times with 1 pitch....well that does not usually work so good.

#4 GG SS? Like Reneteria? Heard that one before.

#5 GG RF? How many times has your boy Drew put up a 500 at bat season? Answer: One time, so much for durability. Drew is a .280, 20, 90 guy. Good numbers, but that's a bad signing. 5 years for $14m. That's going to hurt their ability to go after the real talent in year's to come. Thank you Theo.

#6 The sky is falling, the sky is falling. 9 years of AL East dominance and counting.

i say we sign Pettitte & Lilly and let out rights to Igawa expire.

what chris said ... sign Pettitte & Lilly and let rights to Igawa expire.

No question about it, Pettitte.

This is going to be a very interesting couple of days. The Bloggers have given thier choices and reasons why. What I find interesting is some bloggers feel that the Yankees have fallen to a third place team in the AL East. Boston to me besides the Matsuzaka eventual signing. Lugo is their big improvement at SS.

How did the Yankee talent diminish so quickly? BC is not done and he's not panicking with the Red Sox's spending which I believe is go for broke mentality which will hurt for years to come.

I'm with Chris and kerouac. Sign Lilly and Pettite, one for 4 years and the other for 1 year. If you really have to, keep Igawa as a long reliever.

Jim B: You can see the results of the poll are pretty overwhelming so far. What's great is that you gave us Yankee fans a choice, one or the other and we chose....BOTH! If that's not indicative of the Yanks, I don't know what is.
Can't have enough LH pitching, be gluttons and get 'em both. Igawa, as Rick pointed out, could serve as a lefty long man if necessary. It's only money after all.

Guys,
This is from Jayson Stark's article on ESPN.com today:
Most of the speculation on free-agent left-hander Ted Lilly has been pointing toward him ending up with either the Cubs or back in Toronto. But one baseball man who knows Lilly says he actually "would like to go to the Yankees."

The Yankees apparently have gotten the same signals. So one baseball man who spoke with them Tuesday said they have decided to make Lilly and their other starting-pitching target, Andy Pettitte, "two separate decisions." In other words, the club has concluded it could fit them both in if needed. But another source described the Yankees as being unsure if Lilly was worth the four-year, $40-million price tag he is believed to be seeking.
-----------------------
I guess maybe we weren't crazy for considering both, although I doubt it. I still prefer Pettitte right now though. I believe he'll give 100% if he decides to play, I think he's an all or nothing guy. I don't see him hanging on just for the money like most players do.

Eddy, Jim A - nicely done on your posts. Nice to wake up at 10:30 after a long, grueling exam and have a lot of mind-soothing baseball to read.

I'll take... PETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTEPETTITTE

Andy Pettitte is the best deal. Reason ? He'll want to prove that he's the guy the Yankees should never have let get away. Give him a good 1 year deal with an option for 2. By then, the next wave of good lefthanded free agents like Johan Santana, C.C. Sabathia, and Scott Kazmir will be ready for the market. The team doesn't have any promising lefthanders in the farm system. Nothing against Lilly but he's 2nd choice.

RER

I agree with you on Pettite, but I can say the same thing about Lilly. He wants to show the Yankees they made a mistake by trading him away when he was young. I say sign them both.

I'd take Pettitte in a heartbeat over Lilly. Not only is he more of a proven commodity than Lilly, the Yankees finally have some young arms on the horizon so there's no need to overpay on a long term contract for someone who may be average at best.

Forget Fiscal Restraint. Join the frenzy and sign them both. Why?
1) Never enough lefties
2) Both can handle Apple
3) Andy's toughness get's us over the top, or, said another way, would you pay $15mm for another ring?
4) Lilly's a cheap #4 or a #5 in a year or two.
5) Guarantee me that Igawa isn't a Japanese Moyer.

I agree with you Rich Meyers.

Lilly's contract might seem cheap in a few years.

Let's grab them both.